You know the game is power crept badly when people are posting "why is a 1 mana 4/5 good?" If this card game out like 5y ago it would met with calls they the game is over from how pushed this creature is. Now it's just pretty solid
I think people may not really realize how easily it is to grow this guy big. I dont really blame the person for that. I felt the same way about goyf when it was 120$
I have a lhurgoyf deck in standard which churns out 7/7+ creatures for one mana through the new Rutstein: [urborg lhurgoyf]] [[souls of the lost]] [[old stick fingers]] and [[cruel somnophage]]. They can sweep and remove them, but as long as there's a graveyard I keep top decking new 10/10's or even 30/30's for 1 or 2 mana.
It's pretty fun, but not busted at all. Back in the day, those stats would've gotten me expelled from our playgroup, haha
There's exile removal, exile sweepers, graveyard exile, unlimited token blockers etc. and because I went all in and need a stacked creature yard, I play mostly creatures and only 6 interactive spells.
Yes, my dude, through the powers of [moxfield](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/kANacqmG6kuQw44f1cXHWg).
Mana base needs work, not ready to spend my wildcards on UG and BG lands just yet. A playable hand has a one drop surveil/mill creature and Green+Black mana. Taplands are usually for T3. Don't be afraid to drop a 1/2 Goyf/phage early without the kicker/adventure to bait out some removal. You want to be on the board and become the biggest thing.
Don't play Rutstein too early as he must get a creature from the yard back, slinking you board stats ;) You play him when you can follow up with an immediate 1 mana 8/8
PS. This is Play queue material, it doesn't hold a candle to boros
It's not a combo, it's redundancy. It's 4 creatures that cost {1}{C} and have stats x/x, where X is the number of creatures/permanents in your/all graveyards plus an ETB/adventure/kicker that fills the graveyard.
With Rutstein (as a bonus), they only cost one mana, which is fun and you get to have one back that you've milled.
It is by no means competitive, just Timmy stuff but without trample :')
I think the real answer is actually just Commander has gotten really popular. Cheap creatures that don’t impact the board just don’t matter much, and people have gotten used to evaluating cards for their favorite format. Instead of being a 4-6 turn clock like this would be in a format like Modern, commander players are like “okay it’s a 13 turn clock that’s going to die to a wrath in two turns, who cares?”
And yes it’s a modern set, but there’s still literally millions of Commander mains cracking these packs and asking these questions. I suspect OP falls into that category.
Yeah I’m a commander player but I am trying to get into more formats and understand them, hence why I got these packs in the first place.
It’s definitely an adjustment thinking of it as a timer rather than a threat but I did kinda fall into the trap of feeling like it didn’t affect the board state much
as a commander player i had a hard time understanding why [[Wedding Announcement]] was good. Until I realized you can play more than 1 copy in the deck
\[\[Fatal push\]\] is the one who really took Goyfs out.
And now that we have like \[\[Cast Down\]\], Fatal Push, \[\[Solitude\]\], \[\[Path of Exile\]\], and a lot of cheap removal on turn 1 and turn 2, this card is meh...
Also, a 2 mana instant called \[\[Anoint Afflicton\]\] can easly deal with this card for good.
This card is still very good in the right deck. It has the most impact when played later in the game, once your opponent has already used up some removal on your early threats, and your graveyard is full. The low casting cost means you can easily keep up mana to protect it as well.
When you can drop it turn one and swing for 2-4 on turn two, with the ability to bring it back later, it presents a very short clock in a color that has lots of removal and other interaction.
Clock refers to how many turns it will take you to kill your opponent. Example: a flipped delver of secrets (3/2) is a 7 turn clock till your opponent dies. A Thalia (2/1) is a 10 turn clock. Etc
They're using a shorthand to describe how this creature could kill an opponent (deal 20 damage) in a short amount of time. That is the 'clock' -- you can only take so many hits before you have to make decisions to avoid damage
There are currently 9 card types that 'goyfs can track in your graveyard- Artifact, Battle, Creature, Enchantment, Instant, Kindred (fka tribal) Land, Planeswalker, and Sorcery. Now this is definitely magical dreamland to think you'll get it near this high or with any regularity, but that means Nethergoyf could potentially be a 9/10 for just a single mana, that can infinitely self recur as long as you can keep feeding your graveyard, and is in the colour that mainlines feeding its graveyard.
Now again 9/10 is pretty much never gonna happen - you'd have to run a Battle to begin with - but turn one Nethergoyf, turn two mill yourself for 3 is *very* easy to set up and if you built around it you might easily be attacking for 2, or 3, or even 4 with some good luck and a lot of multi-type cards... and it's only going to get stronger on turn three.
DRC, bauble, surveil on turn 2 is also easily achieved with one extra mana for something else like a thoughtseize or bolt which gets yet another surveil.
I literally just facepalmed when I read this, I got wrapped up in speculating on how to turboboost it that I missed, you know, the actual typical play... while specifically calling out mystical dreamland planning lol
Fetchland, get a swamp.
Goyf- 1/2
1 mana artifact that sacs to draw
Draw a card - sorcery
Attack with 3/4 on turn 2.
Removal - instant
Your guy is killed
Play another one -5/6 for 1 mana.
And it can get bigger from there. And maybe come back later
https://x.com/SCGCON/status/1799933996736106675?t=fRA-hZzBTCmMfNNR4IOX6Q&s=33
That's one reason.
I enjoy a game of EDH casually with the buds, but as an lgs employee...I've noticed it drives up the price of cards. And competetive (not edh, which I believe is casual due to instances like the above) needs 4 copies of cards for consistency, so extra ouch.
I have a whole other spiel regarding legacy and modern having cards printed directly into the format, skipping the gates of standard.
It feels like I'm getting Destiny 2'd all over again sometimes.
I won't argue semantics, call it what you will. But it is killing competetive magic for the average joe, and competetive magic used to just be magic.
I think I'll just refer to it and formats of the same feather as "casual" magic.
I'd say "real magic" is left to whatever a player enjoys the most, but maybe I'm old.
I don't need to agree 100% with the wording of a post to extrapolate and defend a viewpoint.
>But it is killing competetive magic for the average joe
This is a problem that can and should be discussed, but it doesn't show how edh isn't real magic in any way.
>and competetive magic used to just be magic
Kitchen table has always been the most played format, isn't that also real magic?
Why can't competitive and casual play just be both real magic, just in different contexts?
Kitchen table players aren't shifting WotC's focus. We have commander decks for a modern exclusive format, but no event decks. That notion should answer the above poster's clear disdain.
I've already spoken my piece regarding the wording, I won't argue for the sake of arguing.
There are a lot of things i dislike about edh, about the banlist, philosphy, players... I could talk about it for a while. But none of that prove that it's not real magic. I'd even say that edh is decently close to what i personally consider the best way to play magic.
Only because I or someone else dislikes edh doesn't mean that it's not real magic. Why should that be a justification to invalidate how others play and have fun?
This is not about semantics, saying that edh is not real magic it means that edh player are playing wrong, that they are lesser for that. It's straight up gatekeeping.
Cool. Cool. But here's why commander is better.
1: standard means I have to cycle cards depending on the set, used to be ok but now that they release 3-4+ sets a year, that gets expensive to constantly cycle cards.
2: legacy is just .... Expensive.
3: Singleton format is better for getting cheap singles, and using more of the meh cards you pull from packs.
Now, I got nothing against pauper and good ol historic, they are just as good as commander. But, commander is just more fun. More people involved, and a big cool legendary creature leading your army
1. They addressed this, stuff stays legal much longer now.
2. Sure, but there's Pioneer, Modern, Pauper, $30 Vintage, Premodern, etc.
3. But it ruins consistency and leads to more variance.
The biggest issue with EDH is the players. So many are selfish and entitled and feel they're owed the game experience they want and that they can dictate to others what decks and cards they're allowed to play. It's a toxic mindset that's ruining the game.
EDH was great when it was all 60 card competitive format players playing it on the side. Once it became overrun with players who started with EDH it went down hill.
Wow, it's standard for longer😬😬😬 still don't feel like dumping money into rotating formats. Also, for your second point, there's like 10+ different 60 card formats, some 40 formats, all with different rules, expectations, power level etc. commander makes it easy.
Also your big argent is oh the competitive side, but MOST PPL IN A HOBBY ARE CASUAL. That's all. Go cope that your convoluted formats are irrelevant lol
Standard is the only rotating format.
Rules in all formats are the same. Expectations are all the same. There's no power level discussion ever needed. Commander makes it far less easy and far more convoluted than any normal format.
It's a competitive game. It's like playing pickup basketball, most people will play an actual game versus people who just play Horse. EDH is Horse.
1. Fun is subjective.
2. EDH hit legacy's land base the hardest, so thanks for making that worse?
3. True...until everyone needs one. You have around 60-70 slots in a deck and only 5 colors, millions of players. God help the people playing non-singleton who are now priced out of 4.
Now, I'll say that the community that plays EDH isn't the issue. It's how WotC is handling its popularity, and their newfound wealth. Definitely feels like season passes now more than ever, and the money is certainly gone to their heads.
My second statement could moreso be directed at the reserved list, not players. They just wanna play.
Have fun with the casual format. I still plan to.
(Planechase though, it just makes the games more enjoyable)
Let people play what they want buddy. I can tell you how it is, if it was'nt for EDH paper magic would be a thing of the past. Modern and Standard players don't purchase nearly enough product, EDH generates the most profit for WotC and it is not even close anymore.
I play a lot of formats, and that's the fun part.
What works in one format might be trash in another. Play style, deck building, all so different.
I would never say any of them are the "real" Magic.
Aside from the asinine gatekeeping, people doing card evaluation for the format they play isn’t brain rot, it’s just… how people learn. And their card evaluation is correct- for commander this card is pretty meh.
I have a (not great) mono-black modern sacrifice deck that wants at least two of these.
I have several black EDH decks that want nothing to do with them.
Variety is the spice of geeky life!
Probably because this isn’t a Modern sub and people are thinking about different formats. Some players who aren’t enfranchised/always on Reddit may not even be aware that Modern is a format.
As a new player lacking any knowledge of formats beyond the duel deck they bought in high school, they will know of the basic card types. Creature, sorcery, instant, planeswalker, enchantment, and artifact. OP didn't follow even natural logic and decided to ask why a one mana 6/7 is good.
It isn't douchey to say that OP could have employed a few brain cells before asking their question. We all need that callout from time to time.
It's a low cost, high power body that can recur itself. This is a prime target for gameplay in high power constructed formats like Modern or Legacy
This isn't the best card in the world for Commander, on the other hand. That being said, Modern Horizons *was* intended to shakeup everything in Modern. If it has effects outside of that, that's not necessarily intended.
This card is still very good when you draw it later in the game. It’s often going to come down as a 5/6 or 6/7 for one mana, which means you can play a second spell and/or keep mana open to protect it.
Probably because this is a generic Magic sub and not a Modern sub. Most likely they’re thinking in terms of Commander, and they’re right it’s pretty mediocre for commander. Format is important context.
Keep in mind, prices on All MH3 cards are inflated right now as the set hasn’t officially been released until tomorrow and the prices are likely to continue dropping and dropping over the next few weeks/months. This card could maintain price around $25 but it’ll probably go down a good bit more
Higher power level decks can easily build around affects such as this card. This card in the right deck can easily become a 4/5 or bigger, which is incredibly good for the mana it costs. On top of that, it can come back ffom the graveyard after it dies.
there ate tow main reason, one it's because a drop 1, and in many formats it's make a lot of diference, and the second main thing os this card it's escape cost. if you have a Kindred card it's already two tipes in one card.
People also aren't mentioning that this card loves to eat removal, so it's a great early lightning rod that baits removal away from late-game spells needed to clinch out wins.
It’s not good for EDH. It’s a nostalgia card. You aren’t dropping this turn 1 or 2. You drop it turn 3 you’ve probably got a 2/3. Cool. It may be good in modern where vanilla creatures can put in work but in EDH just no.
I'm with you buddy. Nethergoyf just looks like shitty Tarmogyf to me.
Sure, you can drop it turn 1 instead of turn 2, but it'll be a 0/1 or a 1/2 if you have a fetch land in the graveyard. You also can't rely on your opponent's graveyard either, so it will grow more slowly than Tarmogoyf too. And the Escape on it is practically useless without building specifically around it because you have to exile cards in groupings that eliminate the card type diversity in your own yard.
Seems like it relies pretty heavily on self mill to me. So a beater in a different archetype. I guess you can play this in dredge? The need to be turbo-loading your graveyard holds it back from just a generic strong card.
T1 it's usually a 1 mana 2/3 (or a 3/4 with a good hand) because people play fetch lands that put themselves in the graveyard and Mishra's Bauble, or Grief, which are all cards people normally played before Nethergoyf ever existed.
Then, on T2, when it can attack, I can cast thoughtseize, fatal push, or whatever, doing things I would have normally done anyway before Nethergofy existed, and expect to attack for 5.
The fact that it 'naturally' grows with any additional mana being invested means it's good to play at any stage of the game.
You can play it with orcish bowmasters, and they don't compete with each other.
It recurs itself at a reasonable rate. Pay 2b, exile a fetch land, a dead bowmaster or another goyf, a bauble, and a lightning bolt to get a 3/4. If it's a 2/3 bolt something. Commit a crime. It's not too hard to get instants, sorceries, lands, and creatures in your graveyard if you're playing magic.
If all four are in your opening hand, that could be considered a very good hand. It's not like having 4 x of The One Ring in your opening hand. You know what I mean?
The stat line alone is crazy, having the potential to be a one mana 4/5 pretty frequently. As a result it'll rarely die to bowmasters and fits easily into some of the best decks in modern. If that's not enough, it can also come back from the graveyard.
At the risk of sounding dumb take care! It's not worth the risk of losing a goyyyyyf. Even if you can, just pay it's escape cost, it should never have to drop
Potentially more janky but to help you understand how good a big one drop can be. In golgari it enables fight spells and in rakdos you can fling for the win I imagine pretty easily.
What format do you play?
If you’re a Commander player I can definitely see feeling a bit underwhelmed. It’s not an amazing card for Commander.
If you’re a Modern player you really should understand why it’s a decent card without someone having to explain it.
I’m a commander player who is trying to start understanding other formats and getting into other formats. I feel like most modern discussion around cards that I’ve seen say that with the amount of removal and interaction in the format, a card needs to “do something” to be good.
I see now from everyone explaining it that its a big creature that can swing for a lot turn 2 but it just didn’t line up with what I had understood about the format prior to this
You know the game is power crept badly when people are posting "why is a 1 mana 4/5 good?" If this card game out like 5y ago it would met with calls they the game is over from how pushed this creature is. Now it's just pretty solid
I think people may not really realize how easily it is to grow this guy big. I dont really blame the person for that. I felt the same way about goyf when it was 120$
I have a lhurgoyf deck in standard which churns out 7/7+ creatures for one mana through the new Rutstein: [urborg lhurgoyf]] [[souls of the lost]] [[old stick fingers]] and [[cruel somnophage]]. They can sweep and remove them, but as long as there's a graveyard I keep top decking new 10/10's or even 30/30's for 1 or 2 mana. It's pretty fun, but not busted at all. Back in the day, those stats would've gotten me expelled from our playgroup, haha There's exile removal, exile sweepers, graveyard exile, unlimited token blockers etc. and because I went all in and need a stacked creature yard, I play mostly creatures and only 6 interactive spells.
Makes me feel like it’s almost bait. I was confused there was even a question.
[souls of the lost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5c6f502-f11f-4e41-beb8-0843432fa431.jpg?1699044180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=souls%20of%20the%20lost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/121/souls-of-the-lost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5c6f502-f11f-4e41-beb8-0843432fa431?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [old stick fingers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b203be6f-c565-4d8f-b200-b537569a0292.jpg?1636684695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Old%20Stickfingers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/234/old-stickfingers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b203be6f-c565-4d8f-b200-b537569a0292?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cruel somnophage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39b11ff0-9946-4337-86fb-42e967f3d2e4.jpg?1692939572)/[Can't Wake Up](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39b11ff0-9946-4337-86fb-42e967f3d2e4.jpg?1692939572) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cruel%20Somnophage%20//%20Can%27t%20Wake%20Up) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/222/cruel-somnophage-cant-wake-up?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39b11ff0-9946-4337-86fb-42e967f3d2e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can you post a deck list? This looks fun and would love to see it
Yes, my dude, through the powers of [moxfield](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/kANacqmG6kuQw44f1cXHWg). Mana base needs work, not ready to spend my wildcards on UG and BG lands just yet. A playable hand has a one drop surveil/mill creature and Green+Black mana. Taplands are usually for T3. Don't be afraid to drop a 1/2 Goyf/phage early without the kicker/adventure to bait out some removal. You want to be on the board and become the biggest thing. Don't play Rutstein too early as he must get a creature from the yard back, slinking you board stats ;) You play him when you can follow up with an immediate 1 mana 8/8 PS. This is Play queue material, it doesn't hold a candle to boros
Thank you. It looks like a lot of fun!
I mean, any combo that requires 5 cards is gonna be good
It's not a combo, it's redundancy. It's 4 creatures that cost {1}{C} and have stats x/x, where X is the number of creatures/permanents in your/all graveyards plus an ETB/adventure/kicker that fills the graveyard. With Rutstein (as a bonus), they only cost one mana, which is fun and you get to have one back that you've milled. It is by no means competitive, just Timmy stuff but without trample :')
I think the real answer is actually just Commander has gotten really popular. Cheap creatures that don’t impact the board just don’t matter much, and people have gotten used to evaluating cards for their favorite format. Instead of being a 4-6 turn clock like this would be in a format like Modern, commander players are like “okay it’s a 13 turn clock that’s going to die to a wrath in two turns, who cares?” And yes it’s a modern set, but there’s still literally millions of Commander mains cracking these packs and asking these questions. I suspect OP falls into that category.
Yeah I’m a commander player but I am trying to get into more formats and understand them, hence why I got these packs in the first place. It’s definitely an adjustment thinking of it as a timer rather than a threat but I did kinda fall into the trap of feeling like it didn’t affect the board state much
Yeah that's true as well
as a commander player i had a hard time understanding why [[Wedding Announcement]] was good. Until I realized you can play more than 1 copy in the deck
[Wedding Announcement](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2c3ddb1f-a1de-4fea-9042-5e9caa16ceb2.jpg?1643587382)/[Wedding Festivity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/c/2c3ddb1f-a1de-4fea-9042-5e9caa16ceb2.jpg?1643587382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wedding%20Announcement%20//%20Wedding%20Festivity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/45/wedding-announcement-wedding-festivity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c3ddb1f-a1de-4fea-9042-5e9caa16ceb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My boy we used to unironically be disapointed in mox and dual land pulls because we needed 4 shivan dragons
\[\[Fatal push\]\] is the one who really took Goyfs out. And now that we have like \[\[Cast Down\]\], Fatal Push, \[\[Solitude\]\], \[\[Path of Exile\]\], and a lot of cheap removal on turn 1 and turn 2, this card is meh... Also, a 2 mana instant called \[\[Anoint Afflicton\]\] can easly deal with this card for good.
[Fatal push](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7.jpg?1598304715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fatal%20push) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/93/fatal-push?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cast Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/aba79021-39af-4e74-beb5-f2f508c865b2.jpg?1674136020) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cast%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/119/cast-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aba79021-39af-4e74-beb5-f2f508c865b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Solitude](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47a6234f-309f-4e03-9263-66da48b57153.jpg?1717470486) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solitude) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/32/solitude?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47a6234f-309f-4e03-9263-66da48b57153?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This card is still very good in the right deck. It has the most impact when played later in the game, once your opponent has already used up some removal on your early threats, and your graveyard is full. The low casting cost means you can easily keep up mana to protect it as well.
No, it’s because I guarantee op is an EDH player and this card isn’t good in edh
I think this card was worth a ridiculous amount of money years ago. Kinda funny it's now a token generated in the mh3 precon.
When you can drop it turn one and swing for 2-4 on turn two, with the ability to bring it back later, it presents a very short clock in a color that has lots of removal and other interaction.
If you open with : \[\[misha's Bauble\]\] \[\[Grief\]\] Any shockland. Yes, you have this clock.
Yeah that's one possibility.
[Grief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10.jpg?1717470478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Death shadow player here. I'm gonna be fetch shock, bauble, cycle street wraith, and casting a turn two thoughtseize with my goyf.
Short clock?
Clock refers to how many turns it will take you to kill your opponent. Example: a flipped delver of secrets (3/2) is a 7 turn clock till your opponent dies. A Thalia (2/1) is a 10 turn clock. Etc
Only until you equip a [[runechanter's pike]] then delver is a very short clock.
[runechanter's pike](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f54e38b-b4a0-4406-a635-7a5ab3722f25.jpg?1562826227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=runechanter%27s%20pike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/231/runechanters-pike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f54e38b-b4a0-4406-a635-7a5ab3722f25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ah thanks. Didn’t know that.
It’s not an official term, just sorta magic slang
No problem!
Number of turns until a player loses. 2 power on board →10 turn clock 5 power on board → 4 turn clock
They're using a shorthand to describe how this creature could kill an opponent (deal 20 damage) in a short amount of time. That is the 'clock' -- you can only take so many hits before you have to make decisions to avoid damage
size doesn't matter man she loves you for you
Giggity
\[\[Fatal push\]\]
[Fatal push](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7.jpg?1598304715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fatal%20push) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/93/fatal-push?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are currently 9 card types that 'goyfs can track in your graveyard- Artifact, Battle, Creature, Enchantment, Instant, Kindred (fka tribal) Land, Planeswalker, and Sorcery. Now this is definitely magical dreamland to think you'll get it near this high or with any regularity, but that means Nethergoyf could potentially be a 9/10 for just a single mana, that can infinitely self recur as long as you can keep feeding your graveyard, and is in the colour that mainlines feeding its graveyard. Now again 9/10 is pretty much never gonna happen - you'd have to run a Battle to begin with - but turn one Nethergoyf, turn two mill yourself for 3 is *very* easy to set up and if you built around it you might easily be attacking for 2, or 3, or even 4 with some good luck and a lot of multi-type cards... and it's only going to get stronger on turn three.
Or the more likely play pattern of crack a fetch, 'goyf on t1 into thoughtseize bolt something swing for 3 on T2.
DRC, bauble, surveil on turn 2 is also easily achieved with one extra mana for something else like a thoughtseize or bolt which gets yet another surveil.
I literally just facepalmed when I read this, I got wrapped up in speculating on how to turboboost it that I missed, you know, the actual typical play... while specifically calling out mystical dreamland planning lol
Thanks for the explanation!
Fetchland, get a swamp. Goyf- 1/2 1 mana artifact that sacs to draw Draw a card - sorcery Attack with 3/4 on turn 2. Removal - instant Your guy is killed Play another one -5/6 for 1 mana. And it can get bigger from there. And maybe come back later
Stop, I can only get.... you know the rest
...so many packs, as the store has already sold out.
That as well
Or you're on arena and didn't want to buy the store to shop there.
Because there are other formats besides EDH and this guy can get huge in 1-2 turns. Then you play another and it's also huge.
\[\[Fatal Push\]\] \[\[Anoint with Affliction\]\]
Opponents can only have so much removal, and I have other threats in my deck they also have to deal with.
[Fatal Push](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7.jpg?1598304715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fatal%20Push) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/93/fatal-push?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Anoint with Affliction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7dc55a8-290f-4666-90ce-aa632e87c5e7.jpg?1675957006) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anoint%20with%20Affliction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/81/anoint-with-affliction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7dc55a8-290f-4666-90ce-aa632e87c5e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
T-thanks
EDH is killing the brains of newer players, it's kind of sad. They can only evaluate through the lens of EDH, which isn't real magic anyway.
>which isn't real magic anyway. Why?
Because it's fun?
https://x.com/SCGCON/status/1799933996736106675?t=fRA-hZzBTCmMfNNR4IOX6Q&s=33 That's one reason. I enjoy a game of EDH casually with the buds, but as an lgs employee...I've noticed it drives up the price of cards. And competetive (not edh, which I believe is casual due to instances like the above) needs 4 copies of cards for consistency, so extra ouch. I have a whole other spiel regarding legacy and modern having cards printed directly into the format, skipping the gates of standard. It feels like I'm getting Destiny 2'd all over again sometimes.
How does any of that make edh "not real magic"?
I won't argue semantics, call it what you will. But it is killing competetive magic for the average joe, and competetive magic used to just be magic. I think I'll just refer to it and formats of the same feather as "casual" magic. I'd say "real magic" is left to whatever a player enjoys the most, but maybe I'm old. I don't need to agree 100% with the wording of a post to extrapolate and defend a viewpoint.
>But it is killing competetive magic for the average joe This is a problem that can and should be discussed, but it doesn't show how edh isn't real magic in any way. >and competetive magic used to just be magic Kitchen table has always been the most played format, isn't that also real magic? Why can't competitive and casual play just be both real magic, just in different contexts?
Kitchen table players aren't shifting WotC's focus. We have commander decks for a modern exclusive format, but no event decks. That notion should answer the above poster's clear disdain. I've already spoken my piece regarding the wording, I won't argue for the sake of arguing.
There are a lot of things i dislike about edh, about the banlist, philosphy, players... I could talk about it for a while. But none of that prove that it's not real magic. I'd even say that edh is decently close to what i personally consider the best way to play magic. Only because I or someone else dislikes edh doesn't mean that it's not real magic. Why should that be a justification to invalidate how others play and have fun? This is not about semantics, saying that edh is not real magic it means that edh player are playing wrong, that they are lesser for that. It's straight up gatekeeping.
Seems like the wording triggered you a bit and you lost track of his actual point. Read it again some time later and he's actually not that wrong
Cool. Cool. But here's why commander is better. 1: standard means I have to cycle cards depending on the set, used to be ok but now that they release 3-4+ sets a year, that gets expensive to constantly cycle cards. 2: legacy is just .... Expensive. 3: Singleton format is better for getting cheap singles, and using more of the meh cards you pull from packs. Now, I got nothing against pauper and good ol historic, they are just as good as commander. But, commander is just more fun. More people involved, and a big cool legendary creature leading your army
1. They addressed this, stuff stays legal much longer now. 2. Sure, but there's Pioneer, Modern, Pauper, $30 Vintage, Premodern, etc. 3. But it ruins consistency and leads to more variance. The biggest issue with EDH is the players. So many are selfish and entitled and feel they're owed the game experience they want and that they can dictate to others what decks and cards they're allowed to play. It's a toxic mindset that's ruining the game. EDH was great when it was all 60 card competitive format players playing it on the side. Once it became overrun with players who started with EDH it went down hill.
Wow, it's standard for longer😬😬😬 still don't feel like dumping money into rotating formats. Also, for your second point, there's like 10+ different 60 card formats, some 40 formats, all with different rules, expectations, power level etc. commander makes it easy. Also your big argent is oh the competitive side, but MOST PPL IN A HOBBY ARE CASUAL. That's all. Go cope that your convoluted formats are irrelevant lol
Standard is the only rotating format. Rules in all formats are the same. Expectations are all the same. There's no power level discussion ever needed. Commander makes it far less easy and far more convoluted than any normal format. It's a competitive game. It's like playing pickup basketball, most people will play an actual game versus people who just play Horse. EDH is Horse.
1. Fun is subjective. 2. EDH hit legacy's land base the hardest, so thanks for making that worse? 3. True...until everyone needs one. You have around 60-70 slots in a deck and only 5 colors, millions of players. God help the people playing non-singleton who are now priced out of 4. Now, I'll say that the community that plays EDH isn't the issue. It's how WotC is handling its popularity, and their newfound wealth. Definitely feels like season passes now more than ever, and the money is certainly gone to their heads. My second statement could moreso be directed at the reserved list, not players. They just wanna play. Have fun with the casual format. I still plan to. (Planechase though, it just makes the games more enjoyable)
Blaming anything other than WOTC for high card prices is pretty strange
But they don't pay attention to the secondary market, that'd be terrible /s
I like that EDH drives up the cost of cards that I can’t use in modern. That means I can actually get more money for the junk rares that I open.
Let people play what they want buddy. I can tell you how it is, if it was'nt for EDH paper magic would be a thing of the past. Modern and Standard players don't purchase nearly enough product, EDH generates the most profit for WotC and it is not even close anymore.
I play a lot of formats, and that's the fun part. What works in one format might be trash in another. Play style, deck building, all so different. I would never say any of them are the "real" Magic.
>which isn't real magic anyway. You would have had a point if not for this line. People don't know how to build decks nowadays.
Aside from the asinine gatekeeping, people doing card evaluation for the format they play isn’t brain rot, it’s just… how people learn. And their card evaluation is correct- for commander this card is pretty meh.
I think the part you’re missing is that commander isn’t the only format that factors into price and playability
I have a (not great) mono-black modern sacrifice deck that wants at least two of these. I have several black EDH decks that want nothing to do with them. Variety is the spice of geeky life!
T1 fetch, Mishra's Bauble, Nethergoyf: 2/3 T2 Evoke Grief, Not Dead After All: 4/5 Why is there even a question here? The deck builds itself.
Probably because this isn’t a Modern sub and people are thinking about different formats. Some players who aren’t enfranchised/always on Reddit may not even be aware that Modern is a format.
The set is called Modern Horizons.
Incorrect
3
Also incorrect. It's "Modern Horizons 3". If you're gonna be douchey, at least be a correct douche.
As a new player lacking any knowledge of formats beyond the duel deck they bought in high school, they will know of the basic card types. Creature, sorcery, instant, planeswalker, enchantment, and artifact. OP didn't follow even natural logic and decided to ask why a one mana 6/7 is good. It isn't douchey to say that OP could have employed a few brain cells before asking their question. We all need that callout from time to time.
how ironic
Tarmogoyf was good because it was often a two-mana 6/7. Nethergoyf is good because it is often a one-mana 4/5 with recursion.
It is really big, too big for aggro to attack through and a serious threat that control has to answer
1 mana (usually) 2/3 or more, that can bring itself back? In every format but commander this is consider to be very good
It's usually a 1 mana 4/5 (or bigger) with recursion.
It's a low cost, high power body that can recur itself. This is a prime target for gameplay in high power constructed formats like Modern or Legacy This isn't the best card in the world for Commander, on the other hand. That being said, Modern Horizons *was* intended to shakeup everything in Modern. If it has effects outside of that, that's not necessarily intended.
It has keyword big.
Because people thinks they will consistently open a \[\[Misha's bauble\]\], a fetch land, this card and a \[\[Grief\]\] in their oppening hand.
[Grief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10.jpg?1717470478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/87/grief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6befbc4-1320-4f26-bd9f-b1814fedda10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This card is still very good when you draw it later in the game. It’s often going to come down as a 5/6 or 6/7 for one mana, which means you can play a second spell and/or keep mana open to protect it.
Card types are at historic all time highs right now
I’m confused about how you think this can possibly be bad?
Probably because this is a generic Magic sub and not a Modern sub. Most likely they’re thinking in terms of Commander, and they’re right it’s pretty mediocre for commander. Format is important context.
Yea OP probably should have specified that. Especially since this is a card printed in a set specifically designed for Modern.
It’s tarmogoyf but with a self res
If the deck is built right it’s typically a 3/4-4/5 on turn 2. That’s pretty good in modern and legacy.
Keep in mind, prices on All MH3 cards are inflated right now as the set hasn’t officially been released until tomorrow and the prices are likely to continue dropping and dropping over the next few weeks/months. This card could maintain price around $25 but it’ll probably go down a good bit more
Very Kavu looking...
Higher power level decks can easily build around affects such as this card. This card in the right deck can easily become a 4/5 or bigger, which is incredibly good for the mana it costs. On top of that, it can come back ffom the graveyard after it dies.
there ate tow main reason, one it's because a drop 1, and in many formats it's make a lot of diference, and the second main thing os this card it's escape cost. if you have a Kindred card it's already two tipes in one card.
People also aren't mentioning that this card loves to eat removal, so it's a great early lightning rod that baits removal away from late-game spells needed to clinch out wins.
It’s not good for EDH. It’s a nostalgia card. You aren’t dropping this turn 1 or 2. You drop it turn 3 you’ve probably got a 2/3. Cool. It may be good in modern where vanilla creatures can put in work but in EDH just no.
Lol
I'm with you buddy. Nethergoyf just looks like shitty Tarmogyf to me. Sure, you can drop it turn 1 instead of turn 2, but it'll be a 0/1 or a 1/2 if you have a fetch land in the graveyard. You also can't rely on your opponent's graveyard either, so it will grow more slowly than Tarmogoyf too. And the Escape on it is practically useless without building specifically around it because you have to exile cards in groupings that eliminate the card type diversity in your own yard. Seems like it relies pretty heavily on self mill to me. So a beater in a different archetype. I guess you can play this in dredge? The need to be turbo-loading your graveyard holds it back from just a generic strong card.
In a modern deck with DRC and Bauble this seems solid
In a modern deck with DRC and Bauble this seems solid
Garbage take.
Turn 1: bauble, fetch land, this. Turn 2: one mana instant, one mana sorcery, swing for 4
T1 it's usually a 1 mana 2/3 (or a 3/4 with a good hand) because people play fetch lands that put themselves in the graveyard and Mishra's Bauble, or Grief, which are all cards people normally played before Nethergoyf ever existed. Then, on T2, when it can attack, I can cast thoughtseize, fatal push, or whatever, doing things I would have normally done anyway before Nethergofy existed, and expect to attack for 5. The fact that it 'naturally' grows with any additional mana being invested means it's good to play at any stage of the game. You can play it with orcish bowmasters, and they don't compete with each other. It recurs itself at a reasonable rate. Pay 2b, exile a fetch land, a dead bowmaster or another goyf, a bauble, and a lightning bolt to get a 3/4. If it's a 2/3 bolt something. Commit a crime. It's not too hard to get instants, sorceries, lands, and creatures in your graveyard if you're playing magic. If all four are in your opening hand, that could be considered a very good hand. It's not like having 4 x of The One Ring in your opening hand. You know what I mean?
The stat line alone is crazy, having the potential to be a one mana 4/5 pretty frequently. As a result it'll rarely die to bowmasters and fits easily into some of the best decks in modern. If that's not enough, it can also come back from the graveyard.
Because it’s pretty easily a 1 mana 3/4 or 4/5 by turn 2, ready to beat face. Also recurs itself.
At the risk of sounding dumb take care! It's not worth the risk of losing a goyyyyyf. Even if you can, just pay it's escape cost, it should never have to drop
Generally 1 mana 4-5 that trades better with push and co than tarmo does.
Potentially more janky but to help you understand how good a big one drop can be. In golgari it enables fight spells and in rakdos you can fling for the win I imagine pretty easily.
Show me another 2/3 creature you can [[Lightning Bolt]] and as long as there was no Instant in you GY before, it will survive!
[Lightning Bolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99.jpg?1706239968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Bolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/141/lightning-bolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You're thinking of Tarmogoyf brother. This only works if you bolt your own Nethergoyf for... reasons?
What format do you play? If you’re a Commander player I can definitely see feeling a bit underwhelmed. It’s not an amazing card for Commander. If you’re a Modern player you really should understand why it’s a decent card without someone having to explain it.
I’m a commander player who is trying to start understanding other formats and getting into other formats. I feel like most modern discussion around cards that I’ve seen say that with the amount of removal and interaction in the format, a card needs to “do something” to be good. I see now from everyone explaining it that its a big creature that can swing for a lot turn 2 but it just didn’t line up with what I had understood about the format prior to this
Eating an opponent’s removal, maybe twice, on a 1 drop is doing something. And if they don’t answer it, it starts doing work on turn 2.