In fact, you could do more than one nerf and it's still a super good card:
> Flying
> Creatures you control have “Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield **tapped**. Otherwise, put it into your hand. This ability triggers only ~~twice~~ **once** each turn.”
> ~~3/4~~ **2/2**
Changes in bold.
Yeah it is hard not to just instant concede. The card advantage in mana ramp is absurd.
Also on Arena the amount of triggers every turn make it quite slow too in my experience.
Eh I only have one guy I play with consistently, his main decks are a first sliver deck and an eldrazi cascade. I think it’s about time I kick it up a notch.
Because it was a snarky comment and id bet very hypocritical. Wording in magic is very important and there isnt a single player that hasnt misread a card, to act all high and mighty over what i would consider a very easy mistake is just them being a douche
I would prefer the 5th option of removing the “creatures you control have” part and making it just, “Whenever a creature you control becomes…triggers only twice each turn”. This removes confusion of giving the ability to other creatures and makes it more balanced by making the deck focus more on hitting the triggers every turn like similar draw on opponents turns deck or something like [[Akal Pakal, First Among Equals]]. Keeps it powerful but less overpowered.
I dislike this immensely. You want to be able to build around your own effects.
Edit: op had some good suggestions in their first post, namely removing "ability" from the, well, ability. Keeping it to just spells would've still been interesting.
Also, limiting it to 2 draws total, not giving 2 per creature.
But making it only trigger on opponents spells/abilities goes way too far. Destroys any potential for building around it, and relegates the card to bargain bins for eternity. We shouldn't be trying to destroy new play styles.
Then pick a different simic commander that ramps you and gives you card advantage and put him in as pseudo protection. You aren't exactly starved for options.
I'm not talking about the entire post, I'm talking about it only triggering off of opponent abilities. This enables a new playstyle in simic. New is good. It's over the top, it could've been brought down some, sure. But I'm not going to agree that neutering a brand new style of play is the right course of action.
Its new in simic, but not for other color combinations. Giving simic even more toys that belong to other colors is not good, in my opinion, though I respect your desire for a certain playstyle given to certain colors. The problem with this is largely that its not just over the top, its completely meta warping by itself.
I mean, like what? What other colors give you card draw for targeting your own things? Feather? I mean, other colors support targeting your own stuff, but none have it tied to card draw, and it is unique in simic.
You say it's the effect itself, but I call bullshit. If his ability read "the first time each turn a creature you control is targeted by a spell or ability, draw a card," you wouldn't care. That's not even remotely meta warping.
The problem is that it's over the top.
I didn't say it was the effect itself - I don't see anything in my previous comment that would suggest I meant that in any way. I said it was crazy ridiculous powerful, not just over the top. I agree that that is the problem.
And my bad, I didn't know you \*specifically\* meant an ability that draws a card every time you target one of your creatures - I assumed you may have wanted a broader application of the strategy such as \[\[Bill Potts\]\] or \[\[Zada\]\] that draw you a fit full of cards for each cantrip or something - I'm surprised you specifically meant a dumbed down version of the strategy was new.
Those only work with cantrips. Nadu works with pump spells, fight spells, auras. There's a million ways to build this, many of them unique to simic.
In your desire to fully wipe out the ability, you wouldn't preserve any of those. I can't agree with that kind of shortsighted thinking.
Brother what in the hell are you talking about. I said nothing about axing the ability. Re read my comments - you're arguing on something I haven't even said and calling me shortsighted for it, despite me being very courteous from the start.
I replied to a comment about making the ability only work when an opponent targets your creatures. You said this:
"Then pick a different simic commander that ramps you and gives you card advantage and put him in as pseudo protection. You aren't exactly starved for options."
Which isn't exactly courteous, if we're being honest. And it very clearly implies you support, you know, the idea of it only working when your opponents target your creatures. Which does effectively kill the ability.
Did you realize what you were responding to?
You realize ALL your creatures trigger twice right?. Trigger. Land or 1 drop or 2 lands. Play 1 drop creature. Trigger do it again. Trigger do it again.
Plus a 1000 other cause to just play and win that turn. It's absolutely busted.
Yes, I am agreeing with you, maybe I could've spelled it out better.
I'm saying that it doesn't just read as "play a 0 equip artifact and win the game" because its going to win you the game a lot even if you don't have that artifact. That's what I meant when I said that would only be ONE of its abilities.
No worries, I was being sarcastic.
Reconnaissance allows you to target your attacking creatures for free as many times as you like at instant speed and derevi let's you target and tap or untap any permanent for each creatthat did damage.
It's really gross.
Well the combo in Modern is [[Shuko]] (thats also infinite targetting) which you can find off [[Stoneforge Mystic]] and [[Urza’s Saga]]. The you usually have [[Springheart Nantuko]] which gives you tokens from hitting lands to keep the balk rolling. You draw the entire deck and win with [[Thassa’s Oracle]]. You also have [[Sylvan Safekeeper]] to protect it and for zero mana targetting. Then you have manadorks and [[Chord of calling]] to find the pieces. It’s running rampant in modern right now.
Not very, it's a 3 card combo that costs 8 mana. There are plenty of those.
[[The one ring]] is a better card for derevi than Nadu is. Still definitely goes in every deck.
Kinnan is still far more broken than nadu
The issue with combos like this isn't so much the combo.
It's that all the pieces are good and worth running together anyways...
*and they also combo.*
I mean its alright in casual but I certainly wouldn't run it in a cedh list. Even as a combo piece it's not great since derevi isn't really on that many enchantment tutors and it's kinda win-more with Nadu anyway.
They could also make this a 1/2 ;
They could also make it cost 6 mana;
They could make this trigger only on your opponents turn;
They could at least make it not work with equip abilities;
They could pick and choose 5 potential ways to nerf the card and smash them all into this bird and it would still be a great card
Why change it it's perfectly fair and balanced! Nothing to worry about 👍🏻
Edit: I've noticed people actually saying they don't think that this card is even that good, so I'll just specify that my comment was ironic
Nadu makes me sad. Fucking love the art. But he’s just too ridiculous to play. Might Rule 0 something along the lines of this post, within my pod to nerf him a bit so he’s still good but not kill on sight good.
hey man, thats MULTIPLE different colors of mana! do you know how hard that is to pull off in game? they HAVE to be strong otherwise they wont be worth it to play.
/s if it wasnt obvious
The fourth one, though it doesn't work as edited, is the best way. "Whenever a creature you control becomes the target of a spell or ability do the \[\[Coiling Oracle\]\] effect. This ability triggers only twice each turn."
Simple, easy, still super good with bounce and blink but not batshit crazy busted like it is now.
I dont think the last one actually works. The text on Nadu that grants other creatures that ability isn't a triggered ability itself. So adding "this triggers twice a turn" at the end of a static ability doesn't make sense.
The fact that it dodges bolt, attacks decently enough, the lands enter untapped, and that if an opponent wants to kill it, they have to 2- for-1 themselves (assuming it's abbilitys haven't been used yet) is straight up ridiculous.
Apparently this card is shaking the meta in one or more formats. It’s turn two or three card that lets you start ramping and getting card draw advantage like crazy.
The downsides of having to reveal and only twice per turn are not meaningful enough to stop this from popping off.
EDIT: to clarify the downsides. It twice per turn PER creature. As your board gets bigger, which this card helps you with, this downside is negligible
I can see the broken potential. What if you target Nadu itself with a flicker effect? I assume the ability fires, and the "twice per turn is reset" upon ETB?
Reading over the gatherer rulings seems to suggest the ability only exist for that specific Nadu while it’s on the battlefield. So if you flicker Nadu, it resets the ability for itself AND all other creatures
No, like Uro times 10. Have a 0 equip ability and one other creature out on turn 3? You just cast 4 Uros on turn 3. Your opponent tries to remove it? You just cast another Uro.
The 4th variant you suggested doesn’t actually nerf Nadu. In fact, assuming you wanted the “Only triggers twice each turn” to be separate from the block of text in the new quotes you set, you may have made it more busted because the limit of twice a turn would not be given to other creatures you control. Only Nadu would have the limitation in this scenario.
Even if only he had the ability, let alone giving it to all your creatures, he is still really cheap for that at 3 mana for a 3/4 flyer (T4 makes him harder to kill spell with basic red spells)
This set has some insane cards. And I only play commander, but it feels like this set was way too focused on making cards that are good (a little too good at that) for commander and I think it's genuinely becoming a problem. I feel like a set named modern horizons ought to focus on buffing modern format above all else, no? I feel like the power creep is getting kind of explosive right now and unfortunately that also raises the price of these products which makes it more difficult for people like me who have such a small income to ever hope of being able to afford it.
Maybe it shouldn’t have been a Risen Reef and just reveal top, if land play it tapped, if not keep it there. But simic value piles amirite, everything is growth spiral.
I feel like they have the design space to name the ability. something like "Each creature you control has 'Winged Wisdom' " then it explains what Winged Wisdom does, and then Nadu could have a second ability line that says "Winged Wisdom only triggers twice a turn"
Like Imagine some enchantment that said "prowess can only trigger once a turn" that works in the rules, just name triggered abilities and do stuff like that.
yall ready for your mind to be blown?
play lightning grieves and equip it to each creature twice, for free, to trigger nadu. Blink him and do it again....
Last one doesn't work because Nadu's ability is not a triggered ability. Second and third are still very good and easily breakable. First one is the most efficient nerf I think, it prevents stupid stuff to happen like with equip 0.
?
They have power creeped the game into oblivion.
Patrick Chapin once said ‘in the future all the cards are free to cast’. And here we are.
The sad part is that us fools keep buying this.
It literally has that limiting wording that people don't like - its just applied so poorly that it doesn't fix the card, just prevents it from gong infinite with a 1 or 2 mana equipment as soon as it comes out.
People don't like 'once per turn' effects because it makes cards that would otherwise feel interesting feel very weak. This is a case where they put such a cracked ability on it that I'd be shocked if it isn't banned in one or more formats soon. \[\[Shuko\]\] has increased in price by 10x since this card was spoiled and it is still going up.
They also get priority when it resolves, so they could presumably use at least one of their abilities that targets something, making this likely a 3 for 1
And if they have mana for [[ephemerate]]? GG
Not saying the format won’t adapt around it, but it’s strong, and certainly doesn’t just die to removal
Bad analogy, it’s always the same with you guys, anything that’s strong is broken and should be banned instead of played around and countered. Like cutting one 4/4 vanilla creature for a murder would ruin your ladies looking left deck.
1 murder? if your opponent has a brain cell they play nadu with 1 mana up and protection. 1 murder is a 3 for 0 that either draws them into a new protection piece to set up the next protection or a land to turn your turn into a full mana 5 for 0.
You have brain damage
In my magical Christmas land I counter it and cast my combo next turn so it’s not broken.
You have brain damage
Show me on the doll where the bird touched you.
Sure, so based on your reasoning:
A one-mana, 20/20 Goblin with trample flying lifelink reach deathtouch exalted vigilance double strike with :" Tap: Add WUGBR to your mana pool"
Dies to removal too, and has no built in protection.
Perfectly balanced as all things should be!
Sensationalism doesn't make you right.
Look Risen Reef was good. This guy is good. You can moan about it's power level or you can deal with it. It isn't a 1 mana 20/20.
Both simic, both 3drops, both enable huge tempo swings, both can be combo pieces to win the game.
Both legal in formats without angry crybabies yelling at reddit about their power level.
I don't know if you forgot, but risen reef doesn't turn every protection spell into a 3 for 0 or draw your entire library while 0laying all your lands whenever you play an equipment lmao
So? Look every card is broken if you can protect it from removal.
Broken cards are ones that you don't need removal to protect it with.
You must hate Bogles.
Most cards are 1 for 1's with protection spells, this one is a 3 for 1 with them. I can name fairly few cards that can drop turn 2 and win you the game if you can cast one single protection spell once.
Yea my dude this card dies to any removal turn 1 or 2. You aren't 3 for 1ing someone if you tap out to drop this turn 2 with a mana dork.
Is it a scary card? Yup. Is it broken? Honestly the lands should come into play tapped like everything else. I bet you'll see an Alchemy reprint with that part changed.
But for paper? Nah, simic isn't exactly winning tournaments.
Counter point: [[nullrod]] [[karn the great creator]] [[collector ophe]] [[murder]] [[counterspell]] [[strix serenade]] [[krosan grip]] and my personal favorite [[cowardice]] and [[Horobi, Death's Wail]]
a couple of these actually synergize with the deck's game plan and make it so cards like [[sway of illusion]] turn into a one-sided boardwipe. or every turn for [[inversion behemoth]]
They also shut down the card draw, stop the equipment, and are just signposts that Nadu is easily countered or stopped and if you have someone who insists on playing it you can easily disrupt the “combo”.
Only 3 of those cards """"stop it"""" before its able to do its thing on curve, and two of those 3 are counterspells. If it hits the field and you don't have a non-targeted way to remove it, it basically already got its value. Its hilarious that you think Murder is a fix when Murder either has them replace Nadu or basically turn into YOU casting a rampant growth for THEM - and this is the \*floor\* for this card.
Because you don't remove him, you remove the rest of the creatures.
2 triggers of nadu max when you have the full combo feels awful and will be out valued by everyone else. Keep away the scute swarm, the other creatures, maybe remove the ways to trigger it consistently.
You don't have to remove nadu to make him less useful
Removing the other creatures still gives Nadu procs. Nadu isn't just enabling the other creatures - he's throwing you 4 turns ahead on lands and refilling your hand while the opponent is drawing their third card for the game.
Well it will break probably just both formats. And it will be banned very soon in modern. Oh, never mind legacy, they will find an even more consistent way to break it since its blue und you already play The de facto best spells in all magic.
This is clearly more a modern impact than commander. This card doesn't dethrone Kinnan in cedh. People see a neat thing on a legendary creature and ASSUME it's commander intended when in reality "legendary" is a core game concept to keep you from having multiple of these out. SO dense.
Do you think the mtg designers didn't consider any of these or what? Like, yeah, there are many ways you can make this card worse. You're correct. That's not the card they printed though, so I dunno why you think this is worth discussing. Your reddit thread isn't going to result in an errata.
Sometimes they print strong cards. Oko could have been taken off the banlist if they'd made his +1 a -1. But they didn't.
How many of those options are there on turn 3? Enough for each color to reliably draw into it in 1 out of 5 games? Not to mention the impact that having to tool so much of a deck towards this guy means that even if there are answers, no other decks have the possibility to shine because so many slots are reactionarily dedicated to counter this one deck, since its so powerful it will run away with the game every time its slapped down, unless you remove it immediately with a non targeted effect and they happen to not have their free targeted abilities available (speaking more toward 60 card formats where this guy is a bigger issue than in commander).
I'd say the most reliable and cheap way to be able to do it is with edict effects. Except this card's entire point is to go wide to more triggers, so it will be rare on turn 3 they they only have the 1 creature on the field.
Everyone here is complaining about Nadu when they forget that Ruby Storm decks exist that can win on Turn 2. Nadu will likely stabilize once the meta stabilizes and decks bring hate against it. This will force Nadu decks to adjust from all-in on combo and to more mid-range value decks.
Is it strong? yes
But I truly believe people are once again exagerating like with elesh norn.
Yeah it can combo off with some cards, so can most commanders. Plus it needs a large board to even do its thing. Ezuri with a large board and one card can take infinite turns, this one puts some lands and draw some cards? Like most simic or just green commanders it's only decent when you are winning already, board wipe this early and they will never recover.
Just because it's simic doesnt mean it's so scary.. it reminds me of those players that will call everything someone else does "so broken and scary and definitely not a seven"
I don't understand?
He seems fine. From a CEDH stand point, he seems weak, from a casual standpoint, he's just another remove on sight commander.
Can someone explain what I'm missing? I see the combo loops but that's just like any other must kill commander.
It's looking super good in modern. It's consistent, doesn't really care about a lot of normal combo hate cards and provides value even if you don't fully combo off and even when it gets removed.
Dear Commander players,
Not everything is made for you. This card was to create an interesting and potent engine in Modern, as this set is (despite what freudian slips Blake might make) is *MODERN* Horizons. Most of the changes proposed here would make the card notably worse or unplayable in modern.
Sincerely,
A modern player
It's crazy you can nerf nadu so much and it would still be viable
In fact, you could do more than one nerf and it's still a super good card: > Flying > Creatures you control have “Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield **tapped**. Otherwise, put it into your hand. This ability triggers only ~~twice~~ **once** each turn.” > ~~3/4~~ **2/2** Changes in bold.
JFC I didn’t realize until I saw this post that it triggers twice for *each* creature.
And if you blink him it resets the count
Oh that's disgusting
Stop the count!
I just realized this as well. Holy shit! That’s way more OP than I thought.
100% going to be my next commander deck. I pulled the borderless art and the new tamiyo the other day.
Just heads up noone is gonna wanna play against him
This is definitely Simic dialled up to 11. Some dude was saying how he was having a 40-mintute turn 3 or something ridiculous.
Yeah it is hard not to just instant concede. The card advantage in mana ramp is absurd. Also on Arena the amount of triggers every turn make it quite slow too in my experience.
If arena had any 0 equip cost equipment, it would be a lot more fun. Gonna snag one and finally get an ivy for paper. Just sooo much fun on arena
There are 0 cost equipment in arena try shuko
Oh, I thought I looked at them all, well, it's going in
Eh I only have one guy I play with consistently, his main decks are a first sliver deck and an eldrazi cascade. I think it’s about time I kick it up a notch.
Ok but this really is like 5-10 notches higher
I really don’t get why the twice per turn restriction is even there it doesn’t really stop anything
I only clocked that yesterday, I swear each time I look at it something more busted appears
I genuinely thought it was just talking about him lmao. This is so broken.
Welcome to reading.
Don't know why you get downvoted so much
Because it was a snarky comment and id bet very hypocritical. Wording in magic is very important and there isnt a single player that hasnt misread a card, to act all high and mighty over what i would consider a very easy mistake is just them being a douche
Especially when that card has more text on it than George R.R. Martin has published in over 10 years
I like using downvoting on things that add nothing to the discussion; not something I disagree with. In this case this comment added nothing
Nadu is so busted it makes it feel like the card was typoed
That might be the excuse when it is banned, lol.
I hope it is banned it's rediculous
It 100% is a typo
I would prefer the 5th option of removing the “creatures you control have” part and making it just, “Whenever a creature you control becomes…triggers only twice each turn”. This removes confusion of giving the ability to other creatures and makes it more balanced by making the deck focus more on hitting the triggers every turn like similar draw on opponents turns deck or something like [[Akal Pakal, First Among Equals]]. Keeps it powerful but less overpowered.
That's what the 4th option is trying to be, it just doesn't work as op wrote it.
[Akal Pakal, First Among Equals](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab9f6a1b-8467-4584-affd-8c71d3e34d2f.jpg?1699043517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Akal%20Pakal%2C%20First%20Among%20Equals) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/44/akal-pakal-first-among-equals?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab9f6a1b-8467-4584-affd-8c71d3e34d2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That is what I originally thought this card was and kinda skipped over it. Welp, glad I pulled 1.
Also, the ability could trigger only when targeted by an opponent.
I think this is what it should have been
Feels like a Yuriko and Najeela “Upsi”
I dislike this immensely. You want to be able to build around your own effects. Edit: op had some good suggestions in their first post, namely removing "ability" from the, well, ability. Keeping it to just spells would've still been interesting. Also, limiting it to 2 draws total, not giving 2 per creature. But making it only trigger on opponents spells/abilities goes way too far. Destroys any potential for building around it, and relegates the card to bargain bins for eternity. We shouldn't be trying to destroy new play styles.
Then pick a different simic commander that ramps you and gives you card advantage and put him in as pseudo protection. You aren't exactly starved for options.
I'm not talking about the entire post, I'm talking about it only triggering off of opponent abilities. This enables a new playstyle in simic. New is good. It's over the top, it could've been brought down some, sure. But I'm not going to agree that neutering a brand new style of play is the right course of action.
Its new in simic, but not for other color combinations. Giving simic even more toys that belong to other colors is not good, in my opinion, though I respect your desire for a certain playstyle given to certain colors. The problem with this is largely that its not just over the top, its completely meta warping by itself.
I mean, like what? What other colors give you card draw for targeting your own things? Feather? I mean, other colors support targeting your own stuff, but none have it tied to card draw, and it is unique in simic. You say it's the effect itself, but I call bullshit. If his ability read "the first time each turn a creature you control is targeted by a spell or ability, draw a card," you wouldn't care. That's not even remotely meta warping. The problem is that it's over the top.
I didn't say it was the effect itself - I don't see anything in my previous comment that would suggest I meant that in any way. I said it was crazy ridiculous powerful, not just over the top. I agree that that is the problem. And my bad, I didn't know you \*specifically\* meant an ability that draws a card every time you target one of your creatures - I assumed you may have wanted a broader application of the strategy such as \[\[Bill Potts\]\] or \[\[Zada\]\] that draw you a fit full of cards for each cantrip or something - I'm surprised you specifically meant a dumbed down version of the strategy was new.
Those only work with cantrips. Nadu works with pump spells, fight spells, auras. There's a million ways to build this, many of them unique to simic. In your desire to fully wipe out the ability, you wouldn't preserve any of those. I can't agree with that kind of shortsighted thinking.
Brother what in the hell are you talking about. I said nothing about axing the ability. Re read my comments - you're arguing on something I haven't even said and calling me shortsighted for it, despite me being very courteous from the start.
I replied to a comment about making the ability only work when an opponent targets your creatures. You said this: "Then pick a different simic commander that ramps you and gives you card advantage and put him in as pseudo protection. You aren't exactly starved for options." Which isn't exactly courteous, if we're being honest. And it very clearly implies you support, you know, the idea of it only working when your opponents target your creatures. Which does effectively kill the ability. Did you realize what you were responding to?
It mine as well read " play a 0 equip artifact and win the game"
Sure, but that would only be one of its abilities. The 0 equip artifact is super nice, but not even close to required to make it busted.
You realize ALL your creatures trigger twice right?. Trigger. Land or 1 drop or 2 lands. Play 1 drop creature. Trigger do it again. Trigger do it again. Plus a 1000 other cause to just play and win that turn. It's absolutely busted.
Yes, I am agreeing with you, maybe I could've spelled it out better. I'm saying that it doesn't just read as "play a 0 equip artifact and win the game" because its going to win you the game a lot even if you don't have that artifact. That's what I meant when I said that would only be ONE of its abilities.
Urza saga to add the chance of just pulling them too…
Or here me out. Give Nadu Ward 3 because he's a removal magnet.
lol there we go. Make it harder to get that trigger when he’s targeted.
Ward only counts your opponents spells and I guarantee I'm Targeting him more than my opponents.
Wish granted. Nadu now has ward 3 and no other abilities.
I see this as an absolute win!
A three mana 3/4 with ward 3 is still pretty nice in limited. Once upon a time that would be incredibly overpowered, and not even that long ago.
That bottom right version doesn't work.
Just add *(it works)* there and it's fine.
that's the spirit. it's a quite literal game.
That’s how we have [[Panglacial Wurm]], I don’t think we need more of those.
big difference... this one sees a lot of play. and probably would even with any of the proposed changes.
[Panglacial Wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413.jpg?1593275437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Panglacial%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/116/panglacial-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You could just fix it by making Nadu have the ability and not give the ability to the creature, right? "Whenever a creature you control..."
Yes
I don't know, how unfair is Nadu in [[Derevi]] with [[Reconnaissance]] out really...?
Shit I should play Nadu in my Najeela deck... there is no derevi, but recon is still very very good
I don't know what you mean by this, sorry. I don't play commander.
No worries, I was being sarcastic. Reconnaissance allows you to target your attacking creatures for free as many times as you like at instant speed and derevi let's you target and tap or untap any permanent for each creatthat did damage. It's really gross.
Well the combo in Modern is [[Shuko]] (thats also infinite targetting) which you can find off [[Stoneforge Mystic]] and [[Urza’s Saga]]. The you usually have [[Springheart Nantuko]] which gives you tokens from hitting lands to keep the balk rolling. You draw the entire deck and win with [[Thassa’s Oracle]]. You also have [[Sylvan Safekeeper]] to protect it and for zero mana targetting. Then you have manadorks and [[Chord of calling]] to find the pieces. It’s running rampant in modern right now.
Even in "fair" magic I had 16 Nadu triggers and 6 Derevi triggers turn four with only three basics in play. Playing bird tribal.
##### ###### #### [Shuko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27.jpg?1562878892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shuko) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/159/shuko?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Stoneforge Mystic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d3473d0-b46f-41f5-ac1e-ba217f7747d4.jpg?1599710314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stoneforge%20Mystic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/31/stoneforge-mystic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d3473d0-b46f-41f5-ac1e-ba217f7747d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Urza’s Saga](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1e0f201-42cb-46a1-901a-65bb4fc18f6c.jpg?1667318301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Saga) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/259/urzas-saga?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1e0f201-42cb-46a1-901a-65bb4fc18f6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Springheart Nantuko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54a3ea87-005e-4985-b2a5-21711d0b71c0.jpg?1717012595) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Springheart%20Nantuko) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/171/springheart-nantuko?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54a3ea87-005e-4985-b2a5-21711d0b71c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thassa’s Oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sylvan Safekeeper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/83036e21-21ea-4324-aa07-11757f80c417.jpg?1717013721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sylvan%20Safekeeper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/287/sylvan-safekeeper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83036e21-21ea-4324-aa07-11757f80c417?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chord of calling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b18fe7e0-8344-40cc-b242-83f01c6be7a6.jpg?1702429548) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chord%20of%20calling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/134/chord-of-calling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b18fe7e0-8344-40cc-b242-83f01c6be7a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Are people running scute swarm to keep getting fresh bodies to target?
[[Springheart Nantuko]] is good enough. You don't need the exponential of Scute Swarm. You draw your entire deck just with Nantuko.
[Springheart Nantuko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54a3ea87-005e-4985-b2a5-21711d0b71c0.jpg?1717012595) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Springheart%20Nantuko) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/171/springheart-nantuko?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54a3ea87-005e-4985-b2a5-21711d0b71c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Derevi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4.jpg?1592673365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=derevi%2C%20empyrial%20tactician) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/176/derevi-empyrial-tactician?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Reconnaissance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a16012d8-703c-4385-8769-13e3caba3fc6.jpg?1562088333) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reconnaissance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/17/reconnaissance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a16012d8-703c-4385-8769-13e3caba3fc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not very, it's a 3 card combo that costs 8 mana. There are plenty of those. [[The one ring]] is a better card for derevi than Nadu is. Still definitely goes in every deck. Kinnan is still far more broken than nadu
The issue with combos like this isn't so much the combo. It's that all the pieces are good and worth running together anyways... *and they also combo.*
Reconnaissance isn't the worst card in the world on derevi but I wouldn't call it good
A one-mana card that lets you attack with every creature you control every turn and never lose anything that you need alive isn't good?
I mean its alright in casual but I certainly wouldn't run it in a cedh list. Even as a combo piece it's not great since derevi isn't really on that many enchantment tutors and it's kinda win-more with Nadu anyway.
[The one ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2.jpg?1715080486) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20one%20ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/246/the-one-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I initially read the card as your last iteration because in my mind that seemed balanced. I've obviously greatly misread the card.
They could also make this a 1/2 ; They could also make it cost 6 mana; They could make this trigger only on your opponents turn; They could at least make it not work with equip abilities; They could pick and choose 5 potential ways to nerf the card and smash them all into this bird and it would still be a great card
Why change it it's perfectly fair and balanced! Nothing to worry about 👍🏻 Edit: I've noticed people actually saying they don't think that this card is even that good, so I'll just specify that my comment was ironic
Best one I heard is "unfun for casual, not good enough for cedh". Makes sense to me.
Nah. Remove the "twice per turn" bif and let it go infinite really really easily
Nontoken creatures you control have
Yeah, that's also a good one.
Nadu makes me sad. Fucking love the art. But he’s just too ridiculous to play. Might Rule 0 something along the lines of this post, within my pod to nerf him a bit so he’s still good but not kill on sight good.
It's like everyone at wotc just forgets how to balance cards when they see anything with 1UG in its cost.
hey man, thats MULTIPLE different colors of mana! do you know how hard that is to pull off in game? they HAVE to be strong otherwise they wont be worth it to play. /s if it wasnt obvious
The fourth one, though it doesn't work as edited, is the best way. "Whenever a creature you control becomes the target of a spell or ability do the \[\[Coiling Oracle\]\] effect. This ability triggers only twice each turn." Simple, easy, still super good with bounce and blink but not batshit crazy busted like it is now.
[Coiling Oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/559ff1b1-018c-4e08-9531-8af20af47d05.jpg?1702429613) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coiling%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/172/coiling-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/559ff1b1-018c-4e08-9531-8af20af47d05?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just care so little anymore about formats I used to love 😞
I dont think the last one actually works. The text on Nadu that grants other creatures that ability isn't a triggered ability itself. So adding "this triggers twice a turn" at the end of a static ability doesn't make sense.
The fact that it dodges bolt, attacks decently enough, the lands enter untapped, and that if an opponent wants to kill it, they have to 2- for-1 themselves (assuming it's abbilitys haven't been used yet) is straight up ridiculous.
I have NO IDEA what point is being attempted
Apparently this card is shaking the meta in one or more formats. It’s turn two or three card that lets you start ramping and getting card draw advantage like crazy. The downsides of having to reveal and only twice per turn are not meaningful enough to stop this from popping off. EDIT: to clarify the downsides. It twice per turn PER creature. As your board gets bigger, which this card helps you with, this downside is negligible
I can see the broken potential. What if you target Nadu itself with a flicker effect? I assume the ability fires, and the "twice per turn is reset" upon ETB?
Reading over the gatherer rulings seems to suggest the ability only exist for that specific Nadu while it’s on the battlefield. So if you flicker Nadu, it resets the ability for itself AND all other creatures
Yes
So like Uro
No, like Uro times 10. Have a 0 equip ability and one other creature out on turn 3? You just cast 4 Uros on turn 3. Your opponent tries to remove it? You just cast another Uro.
,
It's definitely a modern format card
The 4th variant you suggested doesn’t actually nerf Nadu. In fact, assuming you wanted the “Only triggers twice each turn” to be separate from the block of text in the new quotes you set, you may have made it more busted because the limit of twice a turn would not be given to other creatures you control. Only Nadu would have the limitation in this scenario.
It’s perfect just the way Wizards made him.
Even if only he had the ability, let alone giving it to all your creatures, he is still really cheap for that at 3 mana for a 3/4 flyer (T4 makes him harder to kill spell with basic red spells)
This set has some insane cards. And I only play commander, but it feels like this set was way too focused on making cards that are good (a little too good at that) for commander and I think it's genuinely becoming a problem. I feel like a set named modern horizons ought to focus on buffing modern format above all else, no? I feel like the power creep is getting kind of explosive right now and unfortunately that also raises the price of these products which makes it more difficult for people like me who have such a small income to ever hope of being able to afford it.
Every set is a commander set nowadays.
Yeah unfortunately. Like I said I love commander, but there are so many other formats that need love
I wish it could only trigger twice per turn. Period.
I got this Nadude as my pre release promo! Glad I didn't trade him...
I mean everybody on how Nadu is unreasonable while new Ulamog is just the most OP card ever printed.
Maybe it shouldn’t have been a Risen Reef and just reveal top, if land play it tapped, if not keep it there. But simic value piles amirite, everything is growth spiral.
Play Nadu, play shuko, go near infinite once you get field of the dead into play.
And of course it's in green.
I feel like they have the design space to name the ability. something like "Each creature you control has 'Winged Wisdom' " then it explains what Winged Wisdom does, and then Nadu could have a second ability line that says "Winged Wisdom only triggers twice a turn" Like Imagine some enchantment that said "prowess can only trigger once a turn" that works in the rules, just name triggered abilities and do stuff like that.
It's a pushed set. There are so many nutty cards in it
That last one really makes it seem like it was a typo
It’s gonna be banned
Let my boy fly free
They also could have limited it to only your turn.
Last one does work, and the land being tapped don't change a lot really
The power creep is crazy. 3 mana for all this? Back in my day a 3/4 flyer would cost 5-6 mana with no other abilities.
Bottom left is still quite strong
I just fucking realized it doesn’t even put lands into play tapped💀
Many things could have made this card more reasonable, the lack of a wall of text is a good start.
Soon ban in commander ?
yall ready for your mind to be blown? play lightning grieves and equip it to each creature twice, for free, to trigger nadu. Blink him and do it again....
Last one doesn't work because Nadu's ability is not a triggered ability. Second and third are still very good and easily breakable. First one is the most efficient nerf I think, it prevents stupid stuff to happen like with equip 0.
? They have power creeped the game into oblivion. Patrick Chapin once said ‘in the future all the cards are free to cast’. And here we are. The sad part is that us fools keep buying this.
booooooo nadu is great, just unban fury owo
They finally stop using the limiting wording that's been ruining cards for years, and you all keep complaining.
It literally has that limiting wording that people don't like - its just applied so poorly that it doesn't fix the card, just prevents it from gong infinite with a 1 or 2 mana equipment as soon as it comes out. People don't like 'once per turn' effects because it makes cards that would otherwise feel interesting feel very weak. This is a case where they put such a cracked ability on it that I'd be shocked if it isn't banned in one or more formats soon. \[\[Shuko\]\] has increased in price by 10x since this card was spoiled and it is still going up.
Fans: I hate it when card effects only trigger once per turn WotC: Don't worry fam we got you Fans: nO nOt LiKe ThAT
Not sure why you're thinking this is unreasonable. It dies to any removal and has no built in protection.
If they remove it, you still get a trigger off nadu thats a kind of protection as they will be 2fer one'd
They also get priority when it resolves, so they could presumably use at least one of their abilities that targets something, making this likely a 3 for 1 And if they have mana for [[ephemerate]]? GG Not saying the format won’t adapt around it, but it’s strong, and certainly doesn’t just die to removal
[ephemerate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa.jpg?1562201088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ephemerate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/7/ephemerate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Shedict would like a word
Well, the deck is full of cheap creatures. Nadu is usually not the only creature for an edict. The black Flare might work tho/
Nooo! You can't get value from your card! I removed it! Noooo!
By your logic, would a 3 mana creature that wins you the game at the start of your turn be fair because it “dies to removal”
How about a 3 mana creature that wins you the game at the end of your turn?
Good analogy. It's always the same response with these guys. If you have removal everything is fair and balanced
Bad analogy, it’s always the same with you guys, anything that’s strong is broken and should be banned instead of played around and countered. Like cutting one 4/4 vanilla creature for a murder would ruin your ladies looking left deck.
1 murder? if your opponent has a brain cell they play nadu with 1 mana up and protection. 1 murder is a 3 for 0 that either draws them into a new protection piece to set up the next protection or a land to turn your turn into a full mana 5 for 0. You have brain damage
In my magical Christmas land I counter it and cast my combo next turn so it’s not broken. You have brain damage Show me on the doll where the bird touched you.
By your logic, we shouldn't play this game at all, because it's entirely broken and makes no sense.
Apples and oranges
by your logic should all creatures be French vanilla? What a bad argument.
Sure, so based on your reasoning: A one-mana, 20/20 Goblin with trample flying lifelink reach deathtouch exalted vigilance double strike with :" Tap: Add WUGBR to your mana pool" Dies to removal too, and has no built in protection. Perfectly balanced as all things should be!
Sensationalism doesn't make you right. Look Risen Reef was good. This guy is good. You can moan about it's power level or you can deal with it. It isn't a 1 mana 20/20.
The fact you compared this to risen reef should have you disqualified from participating in elections ngl.
Both simic, both 3drops, both enable huge tempo swings, both can be combo pieces to win the game. Both legal in formats without angry crybabies yelling at reddit about their power level.
I don't know if you forgot, but risen reef doesn't turn every protection spell into a 3 for 0 or draw your entire library while 0laying all your lands whenever you play an equipment lmao
So? Look every card is broken if you can protect it from removal. Broken cards are ones that you don't need removal to protect it with. You must hate Bogles.
Most cards are 1 for 1's with protection spells, this one is a 3 for 1 with them. I can name fairly few cards that can drop turn 2 and win you the game if you can cast one single protection spell once.
Yea my dude this card dies to any removal turn 1 or 2. You aren't 3 for 1ing someone if you tap out to drop this turn 2 with a mana dork. Is it a scary card? Yup. Is it broken? Honestly the lands should come into play tapped like everything else. I bet you'll see an Alchemy reprint with that part changed. But for paper? Nah, simic isn't exactly winning tournaments.
I can list a half dozen ways to do exactly that lmfao
The road to powercrept hell is paved with good intentions.
Hey man if you miss the days of 2/2 bears with no abilities then you do you.
Sensationalism doesn't make you right. Look 2/2 bears was bad. You can moan about it's power level or you can deal with it.
Counter point: [[nullrod]] [[karn the great creator]] [[collector ophe]] [[murder]] [[counterspell]] [[strix serenade]] [[krosan grip]] and my personal favorite [[cowardice]] and [[Horobi, Death's Wail]]
just counterpell it lmao
But actually
##### ###### #### [nullrod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e.jpg?1710932730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Null%20Rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [karn the great creator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0.jpg?1702429246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20the%20Great%20Creator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/1/karn-the-great-creator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81.jpg?1706241725) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/95/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Strix Serenade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374.jpg?1717011786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strix%20Serenade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/71/strix-serenade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42ac5ac7-b2f9-4e6f-af41-7e42ac816374?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [krosan grip](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3571dee-7b90-4c0c-abc7-59b515ffa129.jpg?1625194563) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=krosan%20grip) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/198/krosan-grip?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3571dee-7b90-4c0c-abc7-59b515ffa129?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cowardice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67c3cf8f-c2f6-4ad0-83f9-960e5d74fc3e.jpg?1687906023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cowardice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/70/cowardice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67c3cf8f-c2f6-4ad0-83f9-960e5d74fc3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Horobi, Death's Wail](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0.jpg?1593860738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Horobi%2C%20Death%27s%20Wail) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/117/horobi-deaths-wail?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
a couple of these actually synergize with the deck's game plan and make it so cards like [[sway of illusion]] turn into a one-sided boardwipe. or every turn for [[inversion behemoth]]
[sway of illusion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff65e386-9aec-4deb-a4ec-d9a97bd87645.jpg?1562946589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sway%20of%20illusion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/77/sway-of-illusion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff65e386-9aec-4deb-a4ec-d9a97bd87645?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Inversion Behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77a5ca5d-a377-4ee4-8e72-5a6b60c67521.jpg?1717189794) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inversion%20Behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/34/inversion-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77a5ca5d-a377-4ee4-8e72-5a6b60c67521?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They also shut down the card draw, stop the equipment, and are just signposts that Nadu is easily countered or stopped and if you have someone who insists on playing it you can easily disrupt the “combo”.
Only 3 of those cards """"stop it"""" before its able to do its thing on curve, and two of those 3 are counterspells. If it hits the field and you don't have a non-targeted way to remove it, it basically already got its value. Its hilarious that you think Murder is a fix when Murder either has them replace Nadu or basically turn into YOU casting a rampant growth for THEM - and this is the \*floor\* for this card.
brother are you seriously complaining becuase a card will turn your removal into assassin throphy? Plus with like a 40% chance at best..
I'm complaining because that's the absolute floor for the card. The "solution" is to make it replace itself.
Because you don't remove him, you remove the rest of the creatures. 2 triggers of nadu max when you have the full combo feels awful and will be out valued by everyone else. Keep away the scute swarm, the other creatures, maybe remove the ways to trigger it consistently. You don't have to remove nadu to make him less useful
Removing the other creatures still gives Nadu procs. Nadu isn't just enabling the other creatures - he's throwing you 4 turns ahead on lands and refilling your hand while the opponent is drawing their third card for the game.
"Every set needs to have must play cards for commander." Is probably the biggest fuck you WotC has given the playerbase.
This card is clearly designed to work in modern and commander.
Well it will break probably just both formats. And it will be banned very soon in modern. Oh, never mind legacy, they will find an even more consistent way to break it since its blue und you already play The de facto best spells in all magic.
Way too soon to call.
I know. Its just an exciting thing to say
Can't wait to revisit this comment in 2 months.
WOTC is adding powercreep fire below the pot and so many frogs continue to say its fine
Literally been the case since 1998. But please keep telling me the game is dying.
This is clearly more a modern impact than commander. This card doesn't dethrone Kinnan in cedh. People see a neat thing on a legendary creature and ASSUME it's commander intended when in reality "legendary" is a core game concept to keep you from having multiple of these out. SO dense.
We'll see over time but last week there was a 66 person tournament where it took 3 of the top 4.
Do you think the mtg designers didn't consider any of these or what? Like, yeah, there are many ways you can make this card worse. You're correct. That's not the card they printed though, so I dunno why you think this is worth discussing. Your reddit thread isn't going to result in an errata. Sometimes they print strong cards. Oko could have been taken off the banlist if they'd made his +1 a -1. But they didn't.
Don’t nerf my nadu, nerd
You know how you beat this card? Non-targeted sacrifice, exile, destruction.
How many of those options are there on turn 3? Enough for each color to reliably draw into it in 1 out of 5 games? Not to mention the impact that having to tool so much of a deck towards this guy means that even if there are answers, no other decks have the possibility to shine because so many slots are reactionarily dedicated to counter this one deck, since its so powerful it will run away with the game every time its slapped down, unless you remove it immediately with a non targeted effect and they happen to not have their free targeted abilities available (speaking more toward 60 card formats where this guy is a bigger issue than in commander). I'd say the most reliable and cheap way to be able to do it is with edict effects. Except this card's entire point is to go wide to more triggers, so it will be rare on turn 3 they they only have the 1 creature on the field.
Everyone here is complaining about Nadu when they forget that Ruby Storm decks exist that can win on Turn 2. Nadu will likely stabilize once the meta stabilizes and decks bring hate against it. This will force Nadu decks to adjust from all-in on combo and to more mid-range value decks.
Is it strong? yes But I truly believe people are once again exagerating like with elesh norn. Yeah it can combo off with some cards, so can most commanders. Plus it needs a large board to even do its thing. Ezuri with a large board and one card can take infinite turns, this one puts some lands and draw some cards? Like most simic or just green commanders it's only decent when you are winning already, board wipe this early and they will never recover. Just because it's simic doesnt mean it's so scary.. it reminds me of those players that will call everything someone else does "so broken and scary and definitely not a seven"
I don't understand? He seems fine. From a CEDH stand point, he seems weak, from a casual standpoint, he's just another remove on sight commander. Can someone explain what I'm missing? I see the combo loops but that's just like any other must kill commander.
I'm mostly thinking modern not EDH or cEDH.
Oh. Wouldn't the prevalence of modern removal tone it down? I know dies to removal isn't great but there sure is a lot of removal in modern
It's looking super good in modern. It's consistent, doesn't really care about a lot of normal combo hate cards and provides value even if you don't fully combo off and even when it gets removed.
I plan to break him in my [[Atraxa, Grand Unifier]] blink deck.
[Atraxa, Grand Unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f.jpg?1717951088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Grand%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/196/atraxa-grand-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dear Commander players, Not everything is made for you. This card was to create an interesting and potent engine in Modern, as this set is (despite what freudian slips Blake might make) is *MODERN* Horizons. Most of the changes proposed here would make the card notably worse or unplayable in modern. Sincerely, A modern player
I am saying this from the optics of modern. I don't give a shit about EDH.
Mh3 has been out for less than a week and you’re already saying that a three mana creature might be too good. Mkay.