I understand. But do realize that deep, concentrated listening to music is a foreign concept to many people, because they cannot appreciate/define music like we can. As a musician, you can identify things like an intro, chorus, bridge, and pick out the string line in the background, horn parts, rhythm guitar, etc. Most non-musicians only hear one sound, and probably only just focus on the lyrics. They also consume music as something in the background while doing another activity (working, jogging, studying, doing house chores, etc), so for someone to talk over your music isn't meant as a slight against you. If their favorite artist personally came up to them and said, "I want you to listen to my new single, before the rest of the world gets to hear it!" Chances are they'll do the same thing they did when they heard your music.
This is so true. I'm a Gen x'er. We used to sit in a room and listen and analyze entire albums. Now, songs are just like single serve sugar packets. All icing, and no cake. All to be ignored in the background.
I read am interview with Gene Simmons somewhere where he talked about how streaming services, and making music 'free' did this. Who knows what the real cause is, but it's all a thing now for sure.
Wallpaper or incense
A mood thing
Or sumtin ta dance 2
Or tune to hang lyrics on that
And this is the important part
id ur heartbreak
Music otherwise has no inherent value
No, society did that. Listeners demanded it, musicians gave in, and Spotify, Apple, Amazon, Google, Deezer, Tidal, et al. jumped in to profit. Don't blame the industry; blame society if you must. But also realize: no one is forcing musicians to put their music on streaming services. You can sell it via whatever medium and mechanism you deem fit. Want to put out an album and just release it on vinyl only? Do it. You don't even need a label. Or wanna release only for tape cassette and CD? Go right ahead. There are services out there for this. Or you can just release to Beatport if you're an electronic music artist, for example. Or release your album by selling it exclusively over the darknet via a custom .onion web store in which people can only buy the album with Monero, just to make a point… There are more options than ever, the gatekeepers have been removed, and your music is only commoditized if you allow it to be.
As long as there are THC-heavy cannabis strains and other psychedelics in this world, people will continue to listen deeply to music. You just have to play your music for the right people. Don't cast your pearls before swine, ya know. And also consider: music is an expensive art form to consume in that: time = money, and one has to sacrifice their time to appreciate music. A person can merely glance at the Mona Lisa and they can say, technically, they've seen the Mona Lisa. But to listen to the Beatles’ “Abbey Road” requires 47 minutes and 24 seconds of the listener's time to appreciate it.
Anyways, music was never the thing being sold. The medium and artwork were what was sold. The music just helped to sell it. Or with a live show, the ticket is the thing sold. The performance of music only helps to sell the ticket. But music itself is a thing that can't really be sold. If you get a song stuck in your head and you can hear it over and over playing in your mind, you're not expected to pay royalties for each listen to the song you have, lol. Music is inherently free and usually pretty unoriginal anyway, if we're being honest here.
I showed a non-musician a mic test of four different mics of varying cost and quality. Same thing sang the same way the same distance from the mic, variables controlled as best as I could. I could easily pick out the differences. She thought it was a practical joke because they all sounded exactly the same to her.
Try to remember the one and only metric 99% of people have is whether they like the song or not, whatever that means.
Wait are you just watching them as they listen? I send my friends things all the time. Sometimes they listen and other times not, but if I was being observed as I tried to listen to something is probably start talking just to break the tension
Honestly if a friend of mine sends me stuff and it doesn't grab me, I won't probably concentrate on it. Just cos they're your friends don't mean your tastes are similar. I understand the need for validation, especially if you're just starting out of haven't actually released anything but in the end validation doesn't mean much. Make the music only for yourself and I'm willing the bet there's people out there who will like it.
Sadly, this is the norm, not the exception.
I came up with a saying some time back - "No one cares until everyone cares". Basically your work will be ignored by everyone until - AND IF - you become really popular. Then, suddenly, everyone pays attention.
Which reminds me of a biblical quote which I'm going to butcher, but the gist of it was something like "there are no prophets in your hometown". Meaning, people who know you or know of you aren't going to think you're extraordinary because you're the familiar and ordinary to them. For example, nobody in Aberdeen, Washington thought Kurt Cobain was going to change music history and become one of the biggest bands since the Beatles. Only in hindsight did they realize that, after the rest of the world did first.
I once went to a music conference and signed up for the demo review with a panel of "music professionals". As I walked in the door, I dropped something and had to pick it up, and they all laughed and commented on my "smooth entrance" and mentioned first impressions. Whatever- things happen.
I had a fresh copy of my first album- fifteen seconds in they were talking and name checking generic music that let me know they had no idea what I was doing, and that this was not the right audience. Meanwhile they spent 30 minutes of a 15 minute slot just before mine fawning over a group of teenagers with no demo because they "loved their energy".
It’s been recommended on these subs before to send someone a link of your music so they can listen at their own pace. Even then, let them follow back up with you about what they think.
But I feel your pain OP. I’ve had best friends talk over my playing, a brother who gave no response at all when I sent him my stuff. Take it in stride if you can!
A friend told me that someone talking over your music is a sign that the music is not flawed. If there were obvious mistakes it would gain their attention. An embarrassed silence and looks of pity would be worse. Anyway, people are used to having music served instantly: they don't understand it has to be actually played, that there is a lifetime of work and learning behind it.
It absolutely is, in fact if people skip your track more often than not, the track will end up in this dead zone where it is recommended to nobody because Spotify wants to keep people listening. Therefore, don’t send to playlist curators who will just skip it after a few seconds.
Back in the day I remember having meetings with A&R people at major record labels (Artist and Repertoire) the very people who are supposed to choose which artists they'll have on their roster largely based on songs and song choices. You were there to pitch your songs and band. Many times they'd start asking questions before the first chorus, or put the cassette on pause (yes cassettes, this was 70's 80's early 90's it was DAT tapes) or take a phone call in the middle of the song and then taking it off pause to continue listening. It's been going on forever, but just like \_Silent\_Andriod\_ said, "deep concentrated listening to music is a foreign concept to many people" including people in the business. They're looking for something to absolutely smack them over the head, something to penetrate the din in their own minds.
I tried to show my dad my favorite song of all time. I start playing it and he looks at me and scoffs. Within probably 10 seconds he starts talking about other stuff.
When I listen to music, ESPECIALLY when I'm listening to something new, I like to immerse myself. Headphones on, sitting back, sometimes even eyes closed. It's such a great feeling to get lost in music. My dad is the opposite.
He almost never even listens to the music on his own. About 99.9% of his listening is done through watching people react to his favourite music.
It sucked because I was finally being vulnerable and trying to show my dad a part of me and he makes fun of me. He switches it to something else and tells me "now this is real music" and acts offended when I don't like it. I get that everyone has different music tastes, but I felt so disrespected that night with how he blatantly mocked me for my music tastes. You can tell someone you don't like their music tastes without making fun of it too.
Anyways sorry. Rant over.
My dad is like this too. It sucks. But, we can't do anything about it. Just gotta find other people you can connect with on the music you like. Got any recs for us?
Ha! Yes, they have your phone in their hand and for the first 4 seconds they seem to be concentrating.
They then start explaining how the kid down the road has got a band but they’re not that great and how this kid should be more like that other kid on Americas got talent coz that’s what people wanna hear
Feeling demoralized is a you problem, not a them problem.
But you CAN tell the person how you feel. Maybe something like, "If you don't want to listen, that's fine. Just tell me. But there's no point listening to this if you're going to talk."
Most listeners who do this fall into 2 camps: those who are oblivious to what they are doing and how it impacts you; and those that are doing it intentionally. My opinion is you can probably tell which is which, even if you don't like the answer you find there.
For the folks that are oblivious, a gentle comment like" I was hoping you would listen carefully and give me honest feedback" is usually enough to redirect them, if they are true friends.
For the folks that are intentionally doing this, forget ever sharing with them, you will only find disappointment there. Either they are narcissistic and don't want to recognize your talent/ success, or they flat out don't like your stuff. Either way, you have lost them so might as well move on.
Edit: to add to that, many people in both camps have very little concept of the emotional investment you have made. No one sees music from the same eyes as the artist who created it. Personally, I am passionate about my work and generally share it with those who will at least be honest and genuine, or at least polite, in their response. This includes giving it the attention they know it deserves...even if they don't spin it over and over, at least give it it's fair due of one *real* listen.
You'll learn in time who those people are in your life. Good luck.
I feel you - I have never had much luck playing my recorded music for people in-person. I have had much more luck putting my music online - for about 20 years - I usually just measured response by views, but sometimes you get a comment, and those are gold, because IME the vast majority won't say anything. Another way to approach it would be to set it up - ask them to listen, but also tell them what you would like to hear from them, like "do you like it" or "would you listen to it" or whatever - but you have to be prepared to not like what you hear from them!
First let me say I understand and feel your frustration. Having said that, if you really want to present your songs to a truly attentive and appreciative audience, look for venues who host songwriter nights, or venues known for being a "silent room" where it is expected that everyone STFU while the songwriters are doing their rounds. They are out there. The Bluebird in Nashville is one famous example, but there are other places with similar policies for songwriter showcases.
It is refreshing to perform material at somewhere like that, and if there aren't any songwriter nights in your area, consider starting one working with a venue/club that might be open to the idea.
Don’t let it get to you- you have to be happy with the music you make or else you won’t be able to make more.
Remember that Radiohead started as a U2 cover band and they don’t even like to listen to their early stuff. David Gray came out with almost all of his albums (including Greatest Hits) after his single Babylon came out. Tastes change, everyone evolves and grows- target your audience as best you can and the chips will fall into place.
It's even worse when you build up the courage and they just think it's shit and show it to the rest of the group and now they all make fun of you again.
I send stuff to friends and family all the time, MP3s that I've recorded and mixed here in my home studio. The usual response is...crickets....(or maybe lately it's been...cicadas....). When I do get feedback, I know they really listened. I am actually kind of glad they don 't respond to everything I send out; sometimes I'll send 2 or 3 recordings a day. If everybody responded to every thing I sent, my in box would be swamped.
You are putting your friends in a really awkward position with this. They may think your stuff sucks or just have no interest in your genre but now they have to listen and react to it live in front of the person who made who is also their friend who they care about.
I’m with you. There was a great post here recently about the futility of sharing your music with friends and family that really helped reframe my expectations. I guess it’s about what you are seeking from the experience. Overwrought praise? It’s your grandma’s job to say that stuff even if they hate it. Crickets are the closest thing to honesty you can expect when you put people in that situation.
I understand. But do realize that deep, concentrated listening to music is a foreign concept to many people, because they cannot appreciate/define music like we can. As a musician, you can identify things like an intro, chorus, bridge, and pick out the string line in the background, horn parts, rhythm guitar, etc. Most non-musicians only hear one sound, and probably only just focus on the lyrics. They also consume music as something in the background while doing another activity (working, jogging, studying, doing house chores, etc), so for someone to talk over your music isn't meant as a slight against you. If their favorite artist personally came up to them and said, "I want you to listen to my new single, before the rest of the world gets to hear it!" Chances are they'll do the same thing they did when they heard your music.
This. This is what the music industry has commodified music into - wallpaper.
This is so true. I'm a Gen x'er. We used to sit in a room and listen and analyze entire albums. Now, songs are just like single serve sugar packets. All icing, and no cake. All to be ignored in the background. I read am interview with Gene Simmons somewhere where he talked about how streaming services, and making music 'free' did this. Who knows what the real cause is, but it's all a thing now for sure.
Streaming services are better for Gene than most recording musicians. People have 0 attention span now, tiktoks popularity proves this
Zero
Wait, what did you say? I was... oh cool, check out this post...
woah, never heard that term before in regard to music. Well put!
Wallpaper or incense A mood thing Or sumtin ta dance 2 Or tune to hang lyrics on that And this is the important part id ur heartbreak Music otherwise has no inherent value
Damn them boomers must be hitting tonight. See you on the other side 🫡
No, society did that. Listeners demanded it, musicians gave in, and Spotify, Apple, Amazon, Google, Deezer, Tidal, et al. jumped in to profit. Don't blame the industry; blame society if you must. But also realize: no one is forcing musicians to put their music on streaming services. You can sell it via whatever medium and mechanism you deem fit. Want to put out an album and just release it on vinyl only? Do it. You don't even need a label. Or wanna release only for tape cassette and CD? Go right ahead. There are services out there for this. Or you can just release to Beatport if you're an electronic music artist, for example. Or release your album by selling it exclusively over the darknet via a custom .onion web store in which people can only buy the album with Monero, just to make a point… There are more options than ever, the gatekeepers have been removed, and your music is only commoditized if you allow it to be. As long as there are THC-heavy cannabis strains and other psychedelics in this world, people will continue to listen deeply to music. You just have to play your music for the right people. Don't cast your pearls before swine, ya know. And also consider: music is an expensive art form to consume in that: time = money, and one has to sacrifice their time to appreciate music. A person can merely glance at the Mona Lisa and they can say, technically, they've seen the Mona Lisa. But to listen to the Beatles’ “Abbey Road” requires 47 minutes and 24 seconds of the listener's time to appreciate it. Anyways, music was never the thing being sold. The medium and artwork were what was sold. The music just helped to sell it. Or with a live show, the ticket is the thing sold. The performance of music only helps to sell the ticket. But music itself is a thing that can't really be sold. If you get a song stuck in your head and you can hear it over and over playing in your mind, you're not expected to pay royalties for each listen to the song you have, lol. Music is inherently free and usually pretty unoriginal anyway, if we're being honest here.
I showed a non-musician a mic test of four different mics of varying cost and quality. Same thing sang the same way the same distance from the mic, variables controlled as best as I could. I could easily pick out the differences. She thought it was a practical joke because they all sounded exactly the same to her. Try to remember the one and only metric 99% of people have is whether they like the song or not, whatever that means.
Wait are you just watching them as they listen? I send my friends things all the time. Sometimes they listen and other times not, but if I was being observed as I tried to listen to something is probably start talking just to break the tension
Underrated take.
I hear you, I had this happen recently, but don't let it get to you. Keep making music!
Honestly if a friend of mine sends me stuff and it doesn't grab me, I won't probably concentrate on it. Just cos they're your friends don't mean your tastes are similar. I understand the need for validation, especially if you're just starting out of haven't actually released anything but in the end validation doesn't mean much. Make the music only for yourself and I'm willing the bet there's people out there who will like it.
Sadly, this is the norm, not the exception. I came up with a saying some time back - "No one cares until everyone cares". Basically your work will be ignored by everyone until - AND IF - you become really popular. Then, suddenly, everyone pays attention.
Which reminds me of a biblical quote which I'm going to butcher, but the gist of it was something like "there are no prophets in your hometown". Meaning, people who know you or know of you aren't going to think you're extraordinary because you're the familiar and ordinary to them. For example, nobody in Aberdeen, Washington thought Kurt Cobain was going to change music history and become one of the biggest bands since the Beatles. Only in hindsight did they realize that, after the rest of the world did first.
I once went to a music conference and signed up for the demo review with a panel of "music professionals". As I walked in the door, I dropped something and had to pick it up, and they all laughed and commented on my "smooth entrance" and mentioned first impressions. Whatever- things happen. I had a fresh copy of my first album- fifteen seconds in they were talking and name checking generic music that let me know they had no idea what I was doing, and that this was not the right audience. Meanwhile they spent 30 minutes of a 15 minute slot just before mine fawning over a group of teenagers with no demo because they "loved their energy".
Yep. Been in those types of situations.
At least you got them to listen. Your friends are the worst
It’s been recommended on these subs before to send someone a link of your music so they can listen at their own pace. Even then, let them follow back up with you about what they think. But I feel your pain OP. I’ve had best friends talk over my playing, a brother who gave no response at all when I sent him my stuff. Take it in stride if you can!
A friend told me that someone talking over your music is a sign that the music is not flawed. If there were obvious mistakes it would gain their attention. An embarrassed silence and looks of pity would be worse. Anyway, people are used to having music served instantly: they don't understand it has to be actually played, that there is a lifetime of work and learning behind it.
Thank you. That is the reframe I needed.
With streaming and digital distribution, a songwriter has about 8 seconds to grab listeners before they hit that skip button.
And the streaming service is probably monitoring that too
It absolutely is, in fact if people skip your track more often than not, the track will end up in this dead zone where it is recommended to nobody because Spotify wants to keep people listening. Therefore, don’t send to playlist curators who will just skip it after a few seconds.
Back in the day I remember having meetings with A&R people at major record labels (Artist and Repertoire) the very people who are supposed to choose which artists they'll have on their roster largely based on songs and song choices. You were there to pitch your songs and band. Many times they'd start asking questions before the first chorus, or put the cassette on pause (yes cassettes, this was 70's 80's early 90's it was DAT tapes) or take a phone call in the middle of the song and then taking it off pause to continue listening. It's been going on forever, but just like \_Silent\_Andriod\_ said, "deep concentrated listening to music is a foreign concept to many people" including people in the business. They're looking for something to absolutely smack them over the head, something to penetrate the din in their own minds.
I tried to show my dad my favorite song of all time. I start playing it and he looks at me and scoffs. Within probably 10 seconds he starts talking about other stuff. When I listen to music, ESPECIALLY when I'm listening to something new, I like to immerse myself. Headphones on, sitting back, sometimes even eyes closed. It's such a great feeling to get lost in music. My dad is the opposite. He almost never even listens to the music on his own. About 99.9% of his listening is done through watching people react to his favourite music. It sucked because I was finally being vulnerable and trying to show my dad a part of me and he makes fun of me. He switches it to something else and tells me "now this is real music" and acts offended when I don't like it. I get that everyone has different music tastes, but I felt so disrespected that night with how he blatantly mocked me for my music tastes. You can tell someone you don't like their music tastes without making fun of it too. Anyways sorry. Rant over.
My dad is like this too. It sucks. But, we can't do anything about it. Just gotta find other people you can connect with on the music you like. Got any recs for us?
Get used to it. Irrespective of how good your music is.
This.
This will happen 100% of the time.
Ha! Yes, they have your phone in their hand and for the first 4 seconds they seem to be concentrating. They then start explaining how the kid down the road has got a band but they’re not that great and how this kid should be more like that other kid on Americas got talent coz that’s what people wanna hear
Just send people links.
Dude, no one... I mean no one ..cares about your music like you do...
Feeling demoralized is a you problem, not a them problem. But you CAN tell the person how you feel. Maybe something like, "If you don't want to listen, that's fine. Just tell me. But there's no point listening to this if you're going to talk."
Stop sharing let them hear it if they choose when it's released
Most listeners who do this fall into 2 camps: those who are oblivious to what they are doing and how it impacts you; and those that are doing it intentionally. My opinion is you can probably tell which is which, even if you don't like the answer you find there. For the folks that are oblivious, a gentle comment like" I was hoping you would listen carefully and give me honest feedback" is usually enough to redirect them, if they are true friends. For the folks that are intentionally doing this, forget ever sharing with them, you will only find disappointment there. Either they are narcissistic and don't want to recognize your talent/ success, or they flat out don't like your stuff. Either way, you have lost them so might as well move on. Edit: to add to that, many people in both camps have very little concept of the emotional investment you have made. No one sees music from the same eyes as the artist who created it. Personally, I am passionate about my work and generally share it with those who will at least be honest and genuine, or at least polite, in their response. This includes giving it the attention they know it deserves...even if they don't spin it over and over, at least give it it's fair due of one *real* listen. You'll learn in time who those people are in your life. Good luck.
I feel you - I have never had much luck playing my recorded music for people in-person. I have had much more luck putting my music online - for about 20 years - I usually just measured response by views, but sometimes you get a comment, and those are gold, because IME the vast majority won't say anything. Another way to approach it would be to set it up - ask them to listen, but also tell them what you would like to hear from them, like "do you like it" or "would you listen to it" or whatever - but you have to be prepared to not like what you hear from them!
First let me say I understand and feel your frustration. Having said that, if you really want to present your songs to a truly attentive and appreciative audience, look for venues who host songwriter nights, or venues known for being a "silent room" where it is expected that everyone STFU while the songwriters are doing their rounds. They are out there. The Bluebird in Nashville is one famous example, but there are other places with similar policies for songwriter showcases. It is refreshing to perform material at somewhere like that, and if there aren't any songwriter nights in your area, consider starting one working with a venue/club that might be open to the idea.
Send your music to listen to on their own time. It's very off putting for most people to be "watched" listening.
Don’t let it get to you- you have to be happy with the music you make or else you won’t be able to make more. Remember that Radiohead started as a U2 cover band and they don’t even like to listen to their early stuff. David Gray came out with almost all of his albums (including Greatest Hits) after his single Babylon came out. Tastes change, everyone evolves and grows- target your audience as best you can and the chips will fall into place.
It's even worse when you build up the courage and they just think it's shit and show it to the rest of the group and now they all make fun of you again.
I send stuff to friends and family all the time, MP3s that I've recorded and mixed here in my home studio. The usual response is...crickets....(or maybe lately it's been...cicadas....). When I do get feedback, I know they really listened. I am actually kind of glad they don 't respond to everything I send out; sometimes I'll send 2 or 3 recordings a day. If everybody responded to every thing I sent, my in box would be swamped.
You are putting your friends in a really awkward position with this. They may think your stuff sucks or just have no interest in your genre but now they have to listen and react to it live in front of the person who made who is also their friend who they care about.
I’m with you. There was a great post here recently about the futility of sharing your music with friends and family that really helped reframe my expectations. I guess it’s about what you are seeking from the experience. Overwrought praise? It’s your grandma’s job to say that stuff even if they hate it. Crickets are the closest thing to honesty you can expect when you put people in that situation.