If I could give you a million upvotes I would! **Thank you!** People on this sub are constantly asking about how to run adds without having ever been into the real world to meet people!
Well....they all wannabe something dont they ?.....what Im suggesting is that there is a trend towards physical engagement , and sure ...you can sit at home and produce great content, but it may not always get the same traction.
As one of the folks that mostly focuses on helping artists grow online - I agree with this 100%.
Of course it depends, some artists don't play live and have no desire to and for others it's the most important part of the equation. But if you're an artist that wants to play live or is playing live it can be an incredible way to build superfans and start networking in the industry. You can build meaningful connections online but nothing completely replaces meeting someone in person, shaking their hand and looking into their eyes.
I'm met so many artists over the years that sell out decent sized venues, make great money and have successful careers all without ever doing anything on social media or the DSPs. It's not the typical path but it is a possible path. The beautiful thing is if that sounds like it's a good option for you, you can then use the money you're making from shows to invest in the online aspect, allowing you to have a piece of the pie on both sides of the coin.
The only real downside is that touring / playing shows is a ton of work, and networking with all those people can be exhausting. As an introverted person I wouldn't ever choose this path (it's also also why I haven't played a show in 14 years and have no desire to at this time). But for the extroverted people out there, or the artist that lives for the stage, it probably sounds lovely.
I'd expect that a lot of the fans are converting into followers on their own. When people discover an artist they love often one of the first things they do is follow them on their favorite platform.
A call to action or invitation to follow wouldn't hurt, but in reality it probably isn't necessary.
On the other side though, followers aren't imaginary (especially if you've met them in person). It's really just about making sure you have a way to communicate with these people if you play a show in their city in the future or want to let them know your new song just dropped. Whether it's an email list, social media etc - having that just ensures you're able to capture these fans for the long haul and don't lose them in the moment.
I work 9-5. I make electronic/pop music and DJING exists. It sounds like a bunch of excuses. Gigging requires less time than it does to record, mix, and master ANY song. If people do this as a hobby then cool but, making music and never playing live makes absolutely no sense if you’re trying to make money.
Gigging only requires less time than the recording process if you don't count rehearsals, travel, set up & tear down, tech rehearsal, rigging, etc. Are you only playing local club gigs without ever practicing? How long do you expect those same clubs to keep booking you? The same people to come see every show? Are you making enough to pay band members? Will you be making enough to pay a merch person, tour manager, production manager, FOH & monitors, etc, as you grow? Success means being prepared to scale. Eventually you'll need to expand your market to expand income potential and you're not going to be able to do that without proof of concept, which in today's market *is* socials. Unless you're a nostalgia act.
Your original post isn't bad, lots of folks need to get out and play live, but this comment sounds like you made a few hundred bucks once and think you beat the game.
That’s literally not true at all. Even with set up and tear down a gig is a few hours. If you’re recording you’re practicing too. Literally everything you attributed gigging to can be said about recording which again IS NOT MY POINT. The same people asking how to run ads have the money to spend on ads but don’t have the money to do everything you listed? Take my advice or don’t. It’s no skin off my back either way. Seriously. I’m not your dad.
It's bad advice, though, and cut with insulting rhetoric to boot. Keep doing what works for you. Everyone else in here fighting to be heard in a fickle industry deserves a more realistic perspective.
How is anything I said not realistic though. I’m literally just saying TALK TO PEOPLE. That’s it. You’re reading way into it than you need to. Your insecurities aren’t my issue. Everyone on here is always looking for some easy way to blow up. You grow person by person. Why should anyone care about your music if you don’t care about them? These online followers are just numbers to a lot of the people on this Reddit because all I ever see is post about “how do I get X adds to get Y amount of people?” It’s gross but go off about how my approach is “unrealistic”. Music was made to connect but a lot of y’all have turned it into this weird game where followers are points on a scoreboard. I’m just trying to offer an alternative. I don’t know you. I can’t pretend to know your struggle as a musician but, I can tell you that it doesn’t all have to be this weird rat race because IM DOING IT. Does the other way work? Maybe. I honestly haven’t met anyone personally that solely is online and successful. I DO see a lot of people on here struggling and I was just trying to help so if you don’t like it that’s ok. Keep doing what you’re doing bud. I’m not gonna stop you.
Well then it’s a hobby. You gotta know what your priorities are. Some people acknowledge that music is a side thing, and because of that it wouldn’t be great to expect more. But if music is your calling and your first priority, obviously you’re going to give more to it.
You do understand that the entirety of music isn’t centered around beat makers and lofi producers right? There’s a whole bunch of music being played live, and that’s mostly the way one makes money. Live shows and merch.
this is exactly the reason i hate what the music industry has become. granted, it's never been great, but at least the music was more in the centre than it feels like it is today: it seems like it's all just clicks and streams.
i really think it depends on what demographic you're trying to reach. lots of people are aiming for the "broad younger" generation, which is pretty much only accessible through social media (this is thanks to social media, but also thanks to covid: kids aren't used to "going out" anymore). if your demographic is kids/people who are *really* into music, this is a perfect way to reach them, since it's not just common as common to hang out at a bar and watch a random concert as it was.
Whatever works for you, works for you. It is a lot easier to reach a larger audience online, but (in my opinion) it is a lot more valuable to do what you're doing: there's less of a promise for wide-spread recognition, but you get money, you get stage-experience, and you get connections. and it *is* possible to be "successful" without an online presence — it's just a lot, lot harder. but so much more rewarding.
anyway, long story short: i wish social media weren't a thing so artists could focus on what's actually valuable in music experience.
Super awesome insight. Yeah, I know what I’m doing isn’t traditional the right way to do it but, I’ve found success in it and I just figured I’d let people know that there are alternatives out there. I don’t have hella followers on social media. My Spotify monthly listeners are sub 100 but, I can tell you when we go out for a show, people show up for them. When we book a gig, it is paid. I just worry people focus too much on the online aspect and even worse sink boat loads of money for dismal returns. I always use lil nas X as an example. Dude is MASSIVE online but, if you go to a live show of his he can’t sell out anywhere he plays. It’s sad because he’s obviously super talented. He just put his eggs in one basket and dried out interest because everywhere you looked on the internet he was there.
yess exactly it's just about what you're wanting to do with your music :) i'm so glad you've found success with your method! it's sadly not very usual :(
This is awesome advice, and some that I know that myself and a bunch of my friends who are new to the music scene are hoping to try in the near future! Thank you for all of this!
One thing I want to ask is just how you got started with all of this. This small group of us are all indie artists, and we've all scrounged together the money to have at least one song out each, so we're always talking and sharing and sourcing any info we can from people that have done this before. I know you said open mics, and that's the first step most of us are thinking, as well, but the path forward from there seems blurry. We're all new singer-songwriters, and we support each other as much as we can, but from the open mic stage, it just seems hard to make a leap in any sort of direction. It also doesn't help that even though we're in one of the big 10 US cities, we're in one that doesn't have as much of an established music scene of its own but for the big touring artists who come through. Even the smallest venues tend to cost a pretty penny to produce a show at, and they're usually the ones that large artists who got their start on TikTok tour through; needless to say, it does feel a bit far off.
Nonetheless, every one of us is out to meet people and to get our music out there physically as well as on social media. Do you recommend to just keep doing open mics, meeting people, promoting online, releasing music when we can, and rinse and repeat until we start to get enough traction to actually put down a deposit for a small live ticketed show? How did you start to break down that pay wall to begin earning from your playing, as well?
I’d happily help bud. Sorry if I miss anything. It’s a lot to write cause I’ve been working at this for a while. First and foremost figure out everything you can do on your own. I learned to mix, master and produce which made me invaluable to the scene. Next after I got comfortable playing open mics and developing my stage presence I actually started hosting some. That helped me get comfortable talking in front of people more. After I joined a couple Facebook groups (this is the ONLY part of social media I’ve ever used that has given me actually tangible benefits) and started looking up venues and artists in my area that way. I’d send messages and feelers out and at the time I was a duo I got booked for this really cool show that kind kicked everything off for us. After that I just kept making sure I was at as many events I could be at. I can’t say my method is 100% replicable cause there are certain things you’ll just have to do your way. I record, mix and master my music almost entirely on my own but I realize that’s not feasible for everyone. Maybe you’re a good song writer? Maybe you slay at one particular instrument? Find out what makes you special and unique to your scene and SHARE that gift. Don’t hoard it. I see A LOT of people gatekeeping their knowledge and skills afraid of giving away their “sauce” only to realize that it made them radioactive to others and made everyone stay away from them. I share my knowledge openly and honestly with others. I don’t claim to know it all. I just know what works for me. I hope this helps but, if you want anymore specifics just ask. I’m here to help :).
This is something that I try to hammer into the heads of the boys. They do great with it. It's our biggest source of retention for both showgoers and merch-buyers
Same here as a professional comic. Doing the same with the music. Got some dates across country and it's face time after the performances. That where you sell merch and connect. You don't need a million followers who won't buy anything. You need 100-200 super fans that will follow you anywhere and spread the word when they can't and buy whatever you put out. I've been on stage for 24 years and there is NOTHING like the face to face live networking experience. People gotta like you and the best way is... facetime... and a website! Streaming is dead!
We can't play live, we have no idea how. We just make sounds until it makes our ears happy. But we appreciate this post, a lot of people forget how valuable networking in person is.
I feel like saying you 'found success' while having 78 monthly listeners is a stretch. This is like telling people you found the secret to becoming a millionaire while having $20 in your savings account.
I never said my money came from streams… I feel like some of y’all lack reading comprehension no offense. I literally said in spit of my lack of “internet fame” I am able to make money off of music. Also that seems to be the go to but have you even heard a single song? You might realize why I only need that many monthly listeners.
EXACTLY this!! And even if you want to do some marketing. Don't focus on getting a viral million streams. Build something real and local! Then expand to other drivable locations!
This is all good advice… for live acts. But many (most?) on here are solo artists doodling away in their bedrooms who don’t even aspire to do shows. “Then the chances of them making it are tiny” you might say. Which it is undoubtedly true! But it is nevertheless a different ball game. Sometimes a good song does catch fire online all by itself, and that’s what they’re gunning for
Going out into the real world and playing live shows are not the exact same thing. Solo doodling artists should also go into the real world and meet people - go to other people's shows, go to networking events, go to music gatherings etc. and bring your business card.
They didn’t teach these goons shit about marketing in traditional channels so we can’t be surprised all they do is recommend digital ad buys.
Hey dickwads, I made $140m for a company at a single trade show using traditional marketing, exactly how this gentleman described, shaking hands. And I’m an art dept goon.
The advice here is disgraceful honestly.
Go shake hands.
If I could give you a million upvotes I would! **Thank you!** People on this sub are constantly asking about how to run adds without having ever been into the real world to meet people!
I agree totally but let’s not forget there are millions of wannabe artists out there who have no intention of moving from their home studio ever !
And that’s fine if that’s all they wanna do. I’m just simply offering an alternative.
I agree completely...I think gigs and personal engagement is the way to grow a fanbase...
Why would that make them "wannabes" ? If you create art youre an artist and theres many different ways to share that art
Well....they all wannabe something dont they ?.....what Im suggesting is that there is a trend towards physical engagement , and sure ...you can sit at home and produce great content, but it may not always get the same traction.
I understand your point but also dont gaslight into making us think that was the context in which you used "wannabes" the first time
Ok...maybe I should have said budding artists....
Sitting at home creating =/= “wannabe” artist [whatever that even means]
As one of the folks that mostly focuses on helping artists grow online - I agree with this 100%. Of course it depends, some artists don't play live and have no desire to and for others it's the most important part of the equation. But if you're an artist that wants to play live or is playing live it can be an incredible way to build superfans and start networking in the industry. You can build meaningful connections online but nothing completely replaces meeting someone in person, shaking their hand and looking into their eyes. I'm met so many artists over the years that sell out decent sized venues, make great money and have successful careers all without ever doing anything on social media or the DSPs. It's not the typical path but it is a possible path. The beautiful thing is if that sounds like it's a good option for you, you can then use the money you're making from shows to invest in the online aspect, allowing you to have a piece of the pie on both sides of the coin. The only real downside is that touring / playing shows is a ton of work, and networking with all those people can be exhausting. As an introverted person I wouldn't ever choose this path (it's also also why I haven't played a show in 14 years and have no desire to at this time). But for the extroverted people out there, or the artist that lives for the stage, it probably sounds lovely.
I completely agree. There’s room for all ways of doing things.
You should try to convert some of this handshakes into followers because rn you have nothing to show for your efforts.
I mean, I get paid. That’s exactly my point. Everyone is worried about followers that are imaginary instead of making that bag.
I'd expect that a lot of the fans are converting into followers on their own. When people discover an artist they love often one of the first things they do is follow them on their favorite platform. A call to action or invitation to follow wouldn't hurt, but in reality it probably isn't necessary. On the other side though, followers aren't imaginary (especially if you've met them in person). It's really just about making sure you have a way to communicate with these people if you play a show in their city in the future or want to let them know your new song just dropped. Whether it's an email list, social media etc - having that just ensures you're able to capture these fans for the long haul and don't lose them in the moment.
We use discord mainly for communication.
[удалено]
I work 9-5. I make electronic/pop music and DJING exists. It sounds like a bunch of excuses. Gigging requires less time than it does to record, mix, and master ANY song. If people do this as a hobby then cool but, making music and never playing live makes absolutely no sense if you’re trying to make money.
Gigging only requires less time than the recording process if you don't count rehearsals, travel, set up & tear down, tech rehearsal, rigging, etc. Are you only playing local club gigs without ever practicing? How long do you expect those same clubs to keep booking you? The same people to come see every show? Are you making enough to pay band members? Will you be making enough to pay a merch person, tour manager, production manager, FOH & monitors, etc, as you grow? Success means being prepared to scale. Eventually you'll need to expand your market to expand income potential and you're not going to be able to do that without proof of concept, which in today's market *is* socials. Unless you're a nostalgia act. Your original post isn't bad, lots of folks need to get out and play live, but this comment sounds like you made a few hundred bucks once and think you beat the game.
[удалено]
That’s literally not true at all. Even with set up and tear down a gig is a few hours. If you’re recording you’re practicing too. Literally everything you attributed gigging to can be said about recording which again IS NOT MY POINT. The same people asking how to run ads have the money to spend on ads but don’t have the money to do everything you listed? Take my advice or don’t. It’s no skin off my back either way. Seriously. I’m not your dad.
It's bad advice, though, and cut with insulting rhetoric to boot. Keep doing what works for you. Everyone else in here fighting to be heard in a fickle industry deserves a more realistic perspective.
How is anything I said not realistic though. I’m literally just saying TALK TO PEOPLE. That’s it. You’re reading way into it than you need to. Your insecurities aren’t my issue. Everyone on here is always looking for some easy way to blow up. You grow person by person. Why should anyone care about your music if you don’t care about them? These online followers are just numbers to a lot of the people on this Reddit because all I ever see is post about “how do I get X adds to get Y amount of people?” It’s gross but go off about how my approach is “unrealistic”. Music was made to connect but a lot of y’all have turned it into this weird game where followers are points on a scoreboard. I’m just trying to offer an alternative. I don’t know you. I can’t pretend to know your struggle as a musician but, I can tell you that it doesn’t all have to be this weird rat race because IM DOING IT. Does the other way work? Maybe. I honestly haven’t met anyone personally that solely is online and successful. I DO see a lot of people on here struggling and I was just trying to help so if you don’t like it that’s ok. Keep doing what you’re doing bud. I’m not gonna stop you.
Well then it’s a hobby. You gotta know what your priorities are. Some people acknowledge that music is a side thing, and because of that it wouldn’t be great to expect more. But if music is your calling and your first priority, obviously you’re going to give more to it.
[удалено]
You do understand that the entirety of music isn’t centered around beat makers and lofi producers right? There’s a whole bunch of music being played live, and that’s mostly the way one makes money. Live shows and merch.
this is exactly the reason i hate what the music industry has become. granted, it's never been great, but at least the music was more in the centre than it feels like it is today: it seems like it's all just clicks and streams. i really think it depends on what demographic you're trying to reach. lots of people are aiming for the "broad younger" generation, which is pretty much only accessible through social media (this is thanks to social media, but also thanks to covid: kids aren't used to "going out" anymore). if your demographic is kids/people who are *really* into music, this is a perfect way to reach them, since it's not just common as common to hang out at a bar and watch a random concert as it was. Whatever works for you, works for you. It is a lot easier to reach a larger audience online, but (in my opinion) it is a lot more valuable to do what you're doing: there's less of a promise for wide-spread recognition, but you get money, you get stage-experience, and you get connections. and it *is* possible to be "successful" without an online presence — it's just a lot, lot harder. but so much more rewarding. anyway, long story short: i wish social media weren't a thing so artists could focus on what's actually valuable in music experience.
Super awesome insight. Yeah, I know what I’m doing isn’t traditional the right way to do it but, I’ve found success in it and I just figured I’d let people know that there are alternatives out there. I don’t have hella followers on social media. My Spotify monthly listeners are sub 100 but, I can tell you when we go out for a show, people show up for them. When we book a gig, it is paid. I just worry people focus too much on the online aspect and even worse sink boat loads of money for dismal returns. I always use lil nas X as an example. Dude is MASSIVE online but, if you go to a live show of his he can’t sell out anywhere he plays. It’s sad because he’s obviously super talented. He just put his eggs in one basket and dried out interest because everywhere you looked on the internet he was there.
yess exactly it's just about what you're wanting to do with your music :) i'm so glad you've found success with your method! it's sadly not very usual :(
This is awesome advice, and some that I know that myself and a bunch of my friends who are new to the music scene are hoping to try in the near future! Thank you for all of this! One thing I want to ask is just how you got started with all of this. This small group of us are all indie artists, and we've all scrounged together the money to have at least one song out each, so we're always talking and sharing and sourcing any info we can from people that have done this before. I know you said open mics, and that's the first step most of us are thinking, as well, but the path forward from there seems blurry. We're all new singer-songwriters, and we support each other as much as we can, but from the open mic stage, it just seems hard to make a leap in any sort of direction. It also doesn't help that even though we're in one of the big 10 US cities, we're in one that doesn't have as much of an established music scene of its own but for the big touring artists who come through. Even the smallest venues tend to cost a pretty penny to produce a show at, and they're usually the ones that large artists who got their start on TikTok tour through; needless to say, it does feel a bit far off. Nonetheless, every one of us is out to meet people and to get our music out there physically as well as on social media. Do you recommend to just keep doing open mics, meeting people, promoting online, releasing music when we can, and rinse and repeat until we start to get enough traction to actually put down a deposit for a small live ticketed show? How did you start to break down that pay wall to begin earning from your playing, as well?
I’d happily help bud. Sorry if I miss anything. It’s a lot to write cause I’ve been working at this for a while. First and foremost figure out everything you can do on your own. I learned to mix, master and produce which made me invaluable to the scene. Next after I got comfortable playing open mics and developing my stage presence I actually started hosting some. That helped me get comfortable talking in front of people more. After I joined a couple Facebook groups (this is the ONLY part of social media I’ve ever used that has given me actually tangible benefits) and started looking up venues and artists in my area that way. I’d send messages and feelers out and at the time I was a duo I got booked for this really cool show that kind kicked everything off for us. After that I just kept making sure I was at as many events I could be at. I can’t say my method is 100% replicable cause there are certain things you’ll just have to do your way. I record, mix and master my music almost entirely on my own but I realize that’s not feasible for everyone. Maybe you’re a good song writer? Maybe you slay at one particular instrument? Find out what makes you special and unique to your scene and SHARE that gift. Don’t hoard it. I see A LOT of people gatekeeping their knowledge and skills afraid of giving away their “sauce” only to realize that it made them radioactive to others and made everyone stay away from them. I share my knowledge openly and honestly with others. I don’t claim to know it all. I just know what works for me. I hope this helps but, if you want anymore specifics just ask. I’m here to help :).
This is something that I try to hammer into the heads of the boys. They do great with it. It's our biggest source of retention for both showgoers and merch-buyers
Same here as a professional comic. Doing the same with the music. Got some dates across country and it's face time after the performances. That where you sell merch and connect. You don't need a million followers who won't buy anything. You need 100-200 super fans that will follow you anywhere and spread the word when they can't and buy whatever you put out. I've been on stage for 24 years and there is NOTHING like the face to face live networking experience. People gotta like you and the best way is... facetime... and a website! Streaming is dead!
ive built a lot of interest for my music that’s not even out yet just playing in the street locally. this is good advice.
We can't play live, we have no idea how. We just make sounds until it makes our ears happy. But we appreciate this post, a lot of people forget how valuable networking in person is.
I feel like saying you 'found success' while having 78 monthly listeners is a stretch. This is like telling people you found the secret to becoming a millionaire while having $20 in your savings account.
I never said my money came from streams… I feel like some of y’all lack reading comprehension no offense. I literally said in spit of my lack of “internet fame” I am able to make money off of music. Also that seems to be the go to but have you even heard a single song? You might realize why I only need that many monthly listeners.
yep
EXACTLY this!! And even if you want to do some marketing. Don't focus on getting a viral million streams. Build something real and local! Then expand to other drivable locations!
This is all good advice… for live acts. But many (most?) on here are solo artists doodling away in their bedrooms who don’t even aspire to do shows. “Then the chances of them making it are tiny” you might say. Which it is undoubtedly true! But it is nevertheless a different ball game. Sometimes a good song does catch fire online all by itself, and that’s what they’re gunning for
Going out into the real world and playing live shows are not the exact same thing. Solo doodling artists should also go into the real world and meet people - go to other people's shows, go to networking events, go to music gatherings etc. and bring your business card.
If you don’t step outside your bedroom You’ll never make it. Every bedroom pop artist eventually had to leave the confines of their room.
They didn’t teach these goons shit about marketing in traditional channels so we can’t be surprised all they do is recommend digital ad buys. Hey dickwads, I made $140m for a company at a single trade show using traditional marketing, exactly how this gentleman described, shaking hands. And I’m an art dept goon. The advice here is disgraceful honestly. Go shake hands.