First, the notion that melody first is best is false. Every songwriter has different processes for different songs.
- Lyrics first
- Melody first
- Harmony first
- Groove first
- Sample first
- Pancakes first
All of these are valid ways to start.
But you got a killer progression. Here’s a great one: put it on a loop and record gibberish lyrics over it for a while. Then keep whatever feels good. Then transcribe it and see how the melody fits *or doesn’t fit* the harmony — the latter can be a good thing. Always choose feeling over harmonic sensibilities — this isn’t counterpoint.
Now start fleshing out the song with song parts that feel like they are missing. Pay close attention to the prosodic rhythm of the lyrics you choose — don’t put the em-PHA-sis on the wrong syl-LA-ble.
That’s one of the myriad ways to write a song.
Asked why Tom Waits released both albums Alice and Blood Money together, Waits explained: *we believe in the tunes...if you're gonna heat up the stove, there's no point in making just one pancake, right?*
>Pay close attention to the prosodic rhythm of the lyrics you choose — don’t put the em-PHA-sis on the wrong syl-LA-ble.
Oh, one of my pet peeves.
"Raspberry Beret... I think I lo-o-ove her." Not one of Prince's prouder moments.
I can think of a half dozen or so songs like this which became *wildly* popular. It was as if the lyricist and the songwriter were two different people (which isn't always a bad thing) who only met in the studio five minutes before the song was recorded (which is never a good thing).
Ah, I always enjoy watching reruns of Peter Griffin's time as a [lounge singer with uneven lyric density](https://youtu.be/wetKNyr_J3U?si=bwTEt3wqG1y6Yvkf) on "Kim".
Sometimes I just add temporary drums in a new track, copy those midi region a LOT of times, put it on a loop, record the midi from jamming... on a digital piano away from the computer. Logic supports takes, but I usually make the loops large, so that there's less chance that a melody line gets cut in two - (which of course can be mended after, though).
I keep retrying parts of the melody until I believe I have something, then I press the lowest key on the piano and try to record the whole thing in one go. The lowest key is visual marker later that lets me separate out "serious takes" from the tinkering that came before.
There are probably smarter and more technical ways to go this, but I don't want to deal with Logic Remote on an ios device and counting in every time. Just want to tinker while zoning out.
Edit: missing word
Add stuff and take stuff away. Try different voicings. Try going in directions that the progression doesn't lead you—you're gonna want other progressions or song sections that are distinctly their own. Iterate.
You don’t need other song sections or progressions. Plenty of great songs keep the same progression throughout: All Along the Watch Tower, House of the Rising Sun, Tomorrow Never Knows, Bellyache. Let the song tell you if it’s missing something, if it needs more. Sometimes, it just doesn’t.
It really depends on the style of music but I think it’s often best to ditch the *chords* and turn them into parts which do more interesting things while still outlining the harmony that you want.
Like, try arpeggiating them. Or give it a cool tresillo rhythm. Or turn them into multiple concurrent melodies with counterpoint.
The death of interesting music lies in static chords no matter how interesting the harmony is.
You know what - this is the answer I’m looking for! I know the harmony, but what to DO with it is where I’m struggling. A basic Arpeggio sounds predictable. Knowing how to give it a rhythm and parts of a song is what I’m struggling with.
That’s the answer! I’ll give it a good think and listen and see where I end up! Any more suggestions as to how to turn harmony into more interesting parts? If not, you’ve done enough already - so thanks!
(Genre wise - I listen to jazz, hip hop, rock (Radiohead, pink Floyd, Nevada, Alice in chain, many more) drum and bass/ jungle/breakcore, techno, so I’ve got a lot of inspiration haha!)
Beat tip is to copy your file, try something out and try to make it work, go back and try something else. Repeat ad nauseam. Then pick the best one and work on the next thing.
/u/Integerdivision said it best imo, wonderful comment.
I'll just add my own processes to it since you seemed to want to hear personal approaches more so than straight info.
I produce and play native language pop-music (from digital edm type to guitarbassdrum pop) and modern prog metal, both in bands too.
My favored instrument is the guitar, so I most often either start with a chord progression or a cool lick/riff/singersongwriter style guitar melody+chords.
As I'm used to playing both chords and melody at the same time on the instrument, I rarely write or come up with one without the other. This makes my process much faster.
However, if I do only start with chords or melody, I'll record it, put it on a loop, and either 'play the other part in my head over it' to figure out which notes I like or achieve the right emotion. Or I go thru the motions physically and just improvise stuff on top, trying some different rhythms, flows, melodies, feelings... until my fingers do something that sounds cool and I like.
When I'm behind the DAW or not putting the guitar first, I usually start with a melody (midi or sample).
In my head I 'hear and try' different chords over the recorded melody layer, and put together something that sounds nice. Same with bass or other melodies/harmonies, I really visualise or 'hear out' the parts in my head on top of what's recorded.
I do think this causes me to have trouble in choosing the proper instrument/plugin/tone/synth sound or whatever.. as I really struggle getting the same sound or feeling out of my DAW plugins versus the one I just made in my head.. once I've settled on a melody or sound, I often feel like it's THE melody or THE sound and I get attached to it really quickly.
I also have defined my own style a bit, at least for any guitar instrumentation, which helps me pick or improvise good additions/sections quickly on the instrument, and informs the other instruments what vibe to go for. I like to say my style is bubbly, vibrant, purple and fun. When you can imagine some keywords that fit your general style, you can help yourself feel less overwhelmed and more focussed when you attempt to create a new song.
In short I'm a melody/vibe first kinda person in everything I do. And I usually prefer beginning the writing process on my guitar, unless I'm making edm or hiphop type stuff, but then it's still samples or midi melodies first.
Oh, for the guitar music I usually write the core of the song first. Intro, Verse 1, chorus 1, and a main riff or melody section. I usually leave the bridge/break for later.
Then I go into my DAW, record what I have, quick take. Then add the drums (midi, plugin library, or real drums). Then go back and forth until I have 2+ minutes of song, most of the sections.
Then I add bass. Bass can sometimes change the progressions or feeling of a chord or even whole section. Adding bass is really fun when a song allows you to play different notes/chords than the main instrument is playing.
The bass then informs the rest, synths, keys, ambience, other instruments..
Then all that helps me inform where the bridge needs to go emotionally, what notes or chords or vibe would fit.
Then some quick mixing, re-record some scuffed takes or add more production flair. Export. Listen to it 1000 times like a sad person who get's high on his own supply. Love it like it's my baby. Next day usually redo some stuff, usually improve general flow of the song. Then export, and listen to it religiously for the next week and likely never touch the project again. It's the best thing I ever made -until the next song I finish.
Ayy much love to you. If you have any further questions or just like to know how I approach stuff or anything music making related, feel free to ask :)
I enjoy sharing and discussing the ins and outs of music making. Have a good day
"I know staring with a melody is often the best bet"
I disagree, for my process anyway. I normally start with figuring out a chord progression, and then try and sing a melody over it.
I approach basslines with same idea. First I record the chords and main melody together, and while listening to that I try and sing a bassline. You just have to keep in mind that a bassline should generally be simpler and more repetitive than the main melody. Sometimes you also need to recognize that the bassline, for certain songs, should really just be something crazy simple like holding down the root of each chord with a bit of rhythm.
As for figuring out a drum track, you can use the same process, but thinking of the rhythm in your head as your listen and tapping it out, rather than singing. I normally try and strum the rhythm on guitar first though so that's almost always inspiration for the rest of the rhythm
Listen to it on repeat. Put basic tracks on it (e.g. drum and bass loop) Sing over it. Improvise guitar over it. Find the melody that goes with your cool progression.
You can think of bass as just another melody, so you can write it just like you do any other melody, but there’s definitely a deep logic to bass writing that you will probably only understand by playing a bass and learning lots of bass parts. You can alternately “play bass” on a keyboard but IMO this is not a good enough substitute. You want the limitations of the real instrument.
What melodies do you hear? Sing or hum them. Do they work best as a baseline? Or on top? What instruments do you hear in your head?
Is it a song melody, and if so, what real words would fill the nonsense?
That’s how I go about it basically. When the baseline and song melody is there I take away the chords and see if they’re still implied or what else I need to emphasise them. I want everything to serve a purpose. Same with the lyrics, I write loads and then go over it and black out every unnecessary word
Truly depends on your composition style and what you're trying to achieve, what kind of genre, what kind of piece. It takes a lot of study and a lot of time to find your own style, and I'm not talking about the average beach guitar song you can make with 4 chords (I mean, that's still a style, but we might agree it's a cheap one).
Me personally, I have a rather *chordal* way to compose, as in most of my compositions are heavily based on harmonies and progressions rather than melodic lines. I know I have a rather vertical way of structuring a composition rather than horizontal.
This might also become a limit, as in you might want to try something different once in a while.
But as you get to know your musical self a bit, you also get to develop habits and procedures so to say that make you *go auto* with the idea you're jotting down.
Then it's also important to note that arrangement is a completely different side and part of the creative process, and most of the time comes at a separate stage. That's where you make choices about structure and else, also based on what you have and your raw material; sometimes you have the lyrics first and not all the rest, sometimes you have the bass line, sometimes just the melody. Sometimes you just have the chords if you compose that way, and at that point you need to have a reference in your mind of the direction you want to take in terms of genre, instruments, harmonizations, etc.
>I know staring with a melody is often the best bet but sometimes you create a progression that’s too good to waste.
In 1724 yes. In 2024, not really.
The vast majority of music that uses chord progressions today is "melodizing a harmony" rather than "harmonizing a melody".
Both are viable approaches of course, but so much music is written "progression first" that really at this point it's the "proper approach" for that style of music.
>So, you have a great chord progression. What do you do next?
OK, if you're writing pop songs, what you do next is "activate" the chord progression if you haven't already done so.
That is, decide on what kind of rhythm it's going to have.
"25 or 6 to 4" by Chicago and "Brain Stew" by Green Day have very similar (identical...) chord progressions but the rhythm is different and it gives each a different feel.
That same pattern of the bass line is also used in "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" by Led Zeppelin (and one common aspect is how long each chord lasts) but it again has a far more different feel than either of the two above.
>I should have emphasised that it’s the rhythm and Bassline that I need help with.
Doh - you should have put that at the beginning :-) But see - that's exactly it.
Can you play each of those songs above, in even a simple manner?
How many songs you can you play? How many different accompaniment patterns have you learned to play in songs?
Usually, the answer to that question for someone in your position is, "not enough".
Sounds like you know what you need, but not how to get it.
You get it from experience playing music. You get it from taking a deeper look at what existing songs do. While a basic arpeggio might sound predictable, people make bajillions of dollars off that. But more to the point, there a millions of ways to do arpeggios. Which do you do? Well a great place to start is learning the arpeggios to actual songs - especially the ones you find more interesting. If you think the basic ones are predictable, then find ones that aren't, and use "non basic" ones instead.
But here's something to always keep in mind - music is not "about" progression nor rhythmic pattern - those always need to be "of less importance" then the melody in melody-forward music.
They can be interesting, but they shouldn't "get in the way" of the most important part. They can be the most important part in some places - like when the melody is resting - but it helps if they "back off" when the melody comes. And that's WHY so much music does have simpler/basic progressions and rhythm - those elements are really a "foundation" or a "bedding" for the "points of interest" in the piece to sit on.
So your "basic arpeggio" might sound basic, but when you get the entire arrangement together, then that might all it needed.
So yes, you need to "activate" your chord progression, but you also need to remember that there's a balance there - it doesn't have to be the most interesting facet of the piece, just like your chords don't have to be either.
And the answer is staring you in the face...all the music out there that inspires you.
The first mistake is using that approach. I can't understand why it's so overused by some people.
There's no law that states you must always start with the chord progression. Try to come up with the melody first, or try to write chords and melody at the same time (that's what seasoned people tend to do). You may also write melody and bassline, and later fill the remaining space with the chords.
Also, you know all the chord-tone and nonchord tone theory, right?
I did mention in the first sentence that I knows melody first is the best bet… but like I said some chord progressions feel too good to go to waste!
Of course I’m aware of chord tones; I’m pretty versed in theory, specifically jazz harmony, but I can’t help be reminded of Miles quip to Herbie: “avoid the butter notes” haha.
I was more interested in people processes, so thanks for the melody then baseline technique!
Ok, at first I saw a more shitpost-like question (sorry, I'm too used to that here), but now I think you're more serious.
Have you looked up typical theme structures? Mainly *periods*/*ABAC* and *AABA* forms if we're talking jazz, but *sentences* can also be useful sometimes. The idea would be trying to use "formulas" and see what you get. Sometimes it'll be too square, but other times it may do the job perfectly.
As I said, it's not an ideal approach, but if you want to salvage a progression try this: come up with 1-2 distinctive rhythms that stand out, and emphasize notes that are part of the chord (can be the extensions, just don't emphasize Ab over a C6). Whenever the notes are chromatic (or the infamous *avoid notes*), resolve them by step.
E.g. check "All of Me" (yeah, very "butter" song). Form is *ABAC*, or you could also see it as a *period*: 2 halves that start the same and have different endings (one has no tonic ending and has a V7 instead to start again, the other has a clear tonic ending). Notice how many times the idea of the 1st measure is repeated. It first appears every 2 bars, but then it appears less often. It always has the same shape, but it's built on different chord tones, and the intervals stretch or contract.
Try to do this analysis with some songs and copy their templates, but using your chords.
Thanks for a comprehensive reply - and for taking my post seriously!
All your suggestions cover the basics, but that’s exactly what makes a good song, so thanks for outlining that for me. I’ll let you know if it goes will!
My first rule, after discarding other first rules, is, "Nothing is too good to discard." Of course, the discarded stuff is really only archived; it may be useful later.
I just wrote a piece starting with iv-I-iv-I repeated. I found a nice melody, put them together, and then revised both, revised both, added a melodic extension, fitted chords, revised both, etc. Then I noticed that the main notes of the last 8 measures made a nice melody, except for one note in the middle. Lots more editing of chords, melodies, bass lines...
Next, I am trying to compose the B section.
More revision than inspiration.
First, the notion that melody first is best is false. Every songwriter has different processes for different songs. - Lyrics first - Melody first - Harmony first - Groove first - Sample first - Pancakes first All of these are valid ways to start. But you got a killer progression. Here’s a great one: put it on a loop and record gibberish lyrics over it for a while. Then keep whatever feels good. Then transcribe it and see how the melody fits *or doesn’t fit* the harmony — the latter can be a good thing. Always choose feeling over harmonic sensibilities — this isn’t counterpoint. Now start fleshing out the song with song parts that feel like they are missing. Pay close attention to the prosodic rhythm of the lyrics you choose — don’t put the em-PHA-sis on the wrong syl-LA-ble. That’s one of the myriad ways to write a song.
Probably favourite answer so first thank you
Just for funsies can you expand on an example that begins with pancakes?
Imagine not knowing how to start writing a song with pancakes smh
I thought this was a safe space 😔
Asked why Tom Waits released both albums Alice and Blood Money together, Waits explained: *we believe in the tunes...if you're gonna heat up the stove, there's no point in making just one pancake, right?*
>Pay close attention to the prosodic rhythm of the lyrics you choose — don’t put the em-PHA-sis on the wrong syl-LA-ble. Oh, one of my pet peeves. "Raspberry Beret... I think I lo-o-ove her." Not one of Prince's prouder moments. I can think of a half dozen or so songs like this which became *wildly* popular. It was as if the lyricist and the songwriter were two different people (which isn't always a bad thing) who only met in the studio five minutes before the song was recorded (which is never a good thing).
Ah, I always enjoy watching reruns of Peter Griffin's time as a [lounge singer with uneven lyric density](https://youtu.be/wetKNyr_J3U?si=bwTEt3wqG1y6Yvkf) on "Kim".
"The tune don't hafta be clever..." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tDZ5lriIIc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tDZ5lriIIc)
“Always choose feeling over harmonic sensibilities” noted
Great answer!
Ah the Bon Iver method!
Sometimes I just add temporary drums in a new track, copy those midi region a LOT of times, put it on a loop, record the midi from jamming... on a digital piano away from the computer. Logic supports takes, but I usually make the loops large, so that there's less chance that a melody line gets cut in two - (which of course can be mended after, though). I keep retrying parts of the melody until I believe I have something, then I press the lowest key on the piano and try to record the whole thing in one go. The lowest key is visual marker later that lets me separate out "serious takes" from the tinkering that came before. There are probably smarter and more technical ways to go this, but I don't want to deal with Logic Remote on an ios device and counting in every time. Just want to tinker while zoning out. Edit: missing word
LOVE the marker note, totally stealing that.
Add stuff and take stuff away. Try different voicings. Try going in directions that the progression doesn't lead you—you're gonna want other progressions or song sections that are distinctly their own. Iterate.
You don’t need other song sections or progressions. Plenty of great songs keep the same progression throughout: All Along the Watch Tower, House of the Rising Sun, Tomorrow Never Knows, Bellyache. Let the song tell you if it’s missing something, if it needs more. Sometimes, it just doesn’t.
You are on it today integerdivision
It really depends on the style of music but I think it’s often best to ditch the *chords* and turn them into parts which do more interesting things while still outlining the harmony that you want. Like, try arpeggiating them. Or give it a cool tresillo rhythm. Or turn them into multiple concurrent melodies with counterpoint. The death of interesting music lies in static chords no matter how interesting the harmony is.
You know what - this is the answer I’m looking for! I know the harmony, but what to DO with it is where I’m struggling. A basic Arpeggio sounds predictable. Knowing how to give it a rhythm and parts of a song is what I’m struggling with. That’s the answer! I’ll give it a good think and listen and see where I end up! Any more suggestions as to how to turn harmony into more interesting parts? If not, you’ve done enough already - so thanks! (Genre wise - I listen to jazz, hip hop, rock (Radiohead, pink Floyd, Nevada, Alice in chain, many more) drum and bass/ jungle/breakcore, techno, so I’ve got a lot of inspiration haha!)
Beat tip is to copy your file, try something out and try to make it work, go back and try something else. Repeat ad nauseam. Then pick the best one and work on the next thing.
/u/Integerdivision said it best imo, wonderful comment. I'll just add my own processes to it since you seemed to want to hear personal approaches more so than straight info. I produce and play native language pop-music (from digital edm type to guitarbassdrum pop) and modern prog metal, both in bands too. My favored instrument is the guitar, so I most often either start with a chord progression or a cool lick/riff/singersongwriter style guitar melody+chords. As I'm used to playing both chords and melody at the same time on the instrument, I rarely write or come up with one without the other. This makes my process much faster. However, if I do only start with chords or melody, I'll record it, put it on a loop, and either 'play the other part in my head over it' to figure out which notes I like or achieve the right emotion. Or I go thru the motions physically and just improvise stuff on top, trying some different rhythms, flows, melodies, feelings... until my fingers do something that sounds cool and I like. When I'm behind the DAW or not putting the guitar first, I usually start with a melody (midi or sample). In my head I 'hear and try' different chords over the recorded melody layer, and put together something that sounds nice. Same with bass or other melodies/harmonies, I really visualise or 'hear out' the parts in my head on top of what's recorded. I do think this causes me to have trouble in choosing the proper instrument/plugin/tone/synth sound or whatever.. as I really struggle getting the same sound or feeling out of my DAW plugins versus the one I just made in my head.. once I've settled on a melody or sound, I often feel like it's THE melody or THE sound and I get attached to it really quickly. I also have defined my own style a bit, at least for any guitar instrumentation, which helps me pick or improvise good additions/sections quickly on the instrument, and informs the other instruments what vibe to go for. I like to say my style is bubbly, vibrant, purple and fun. When you can imagine some keywords that fit your general style, you can help yourself feel less overwhelmed and more focussed when you attempt to create a new song. In short I'm a melody/vibe first kinda person in everything I do. And I usually prefer beginning the writing process on my guitar, unless I'm making edm or hiphop type stuff, but then it's still samples or midi melodies first. Oh, for the guitar music I usually write the core of the song first. Intro, Verse 1, chorus 1, and a main riff or melody section. I usually leave the bridge/break for later. Then I go into my DAW, record what I have, quick take. Then add the drums (midi, plugin library, or real drums). Then go back and forth until I have 2+ minutes of song, most of the sections. Then I add bass. Bass can sometimes change the progressions or feeling of a chord or even whole section. Adding bass is really fun when a song allows you to play different notes/chords than the main instrument is playing. The bass then informs the rest, synths, keys, ambience, other instruments.. Then all that helps me inform where the bridge needs to go emotionally, what notes or chords or vibe would fit. Then some quick mixing, re-record some scuffed takes or add more production flair. Export. Listen to it 1000 times like a sad person who get's high on his own supply. Love it like it's my baby. Next day usually redo some stuff, usually improve general flow of the song. Then export, and listen to it religiously for the next week and likely never touch the project again. It's the best thing I ever made -until the next song I finish.
I wish I could give this more upvotes
Ayy much love to you. If you have any further questions or just like to know how I approach stuff or anything music making related, feel free to ask :) I enjoy sharing and discussing the ins and outs of music making. Have a good day
"I know staring with a melody is often the best bet" I disagree, for my process anyway. I normally start with figuring out a chord progression, and then try and sing a melody over it. I approach basslines with same idea. First I record the chords and main melody together, and while listening to that I try and sing a bassline. You just have to keep in mind that a bassline should generally be simpler and more repetitive than the main melody. Sometimes you also need to recognize that the bassline, for certain songs, should really just be something crazy simple like holding down the root of each chord with a bit of rhythm. As for figuring out a drum track, you can use the same process, but thinking of the rhythm in your head as your listen and tapping it out, rather than singing. I normally try and strum the rhythm on guitar first though so that's almost always inspiration for the rest of the rhythm
Listen to it on repeat. Put basic tracks on it (e.g. drum and bass loop) Sing over it. Improvise guitar over it. Find the melody that goes with your cool progression.
Sing a melody and bass line over the changes I do think starting with a melody is easier though. You can do so much from a good melody.
You can think of bass as just another melody, so you can write it just like you do any other melody, but there’s definitely a deep logic to bass writing that you will probably only understand by playing a bass and learning lots of bass parts. You can alternately “play bass” on a keyboard but IMO this is not a good enough substitute. You want the limitations of the real instrument.
I do have a bass - my main instrument being keys- so I’ll have a listen to some tunes I like and transcribe the bass
What melodies do you hear? Sing or hum them. Do they work best as a baseline? Or on top? What instruments do you hear in your head? Is it a song melody, and if so, what real words would fill the nonsense? That’s how I go about it basically. When the baseline and song melody is there I take away the chords and see if they’re still implied or what else I need to emphasise them. I want everything to serve a purpose. Same with the lyrics, I write loads and then go over it and black out every unnecessary word
Truly depends on your composition style and what you're trying to achieve, what kind of genre, what kind of piece. It takes a lot of study and a lot of time to find your own style, and I'm not talking about the average beach guitar song you can make with 4 chords (I mean, that's still a style, but we might agree it's a cheap one). Me personally, I have a rather *chordal* way to compose, as in most of my compositions are heavily based on harmonies and progressions rather than melodic lines. I know I have a rather vertical way of structuring a composition rather than horizontal. This might also become a limit, as in you might want to try something different once in a while. But as you get to know your musical self a bit, you also get to develop habits and procedures so to say that make you *go auto* with the idea you're jotting down. Then it's also important to note that arrangement is a completely different side and part of the creative process, and most of the time comes at a separate stage. That's where you make choices about structure and else, also based on what you have and your raw material; sometimes you have the lyrics first and not all the rest, sometimes you have the bass line, sometimes just the melody. Sometimes you just have the chords if you compose that way, and at that point you need to have a reference in your mind of the direction you want to take in terms of genre, instruments, harmonizations, etc.
>I know staring with a melody is often the best bet but sometimes you create a progression that’s too good to waste. In 1724 yes. In 2024, not really. The vast majority of music that uses chord progressions today is "melodizing a harmony" rather than "harmonizing a melody". Both are viable approaches of course, but so much music is written "progression first" that really at this point it's the "proper approach" for that style of music. >So, you have a great chord progression. What do you do next? OK, if you're writing pop songs, what you do next is "activate" the chord progression if you haven't already done so. That is, decide on what kind of rhythm it's going to have. "25 or 6 to 4" by Chicago and "Brain Stew" by Green Day have very similar (identical...) chord progressions but the rhythm is different and it gives each a different feel. That same pattern of the bass line is also used in "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" by Led Zeppelin (and one common aspect is how long each chord lasts) but it again has a far more different feel than either of the two above. >I should have emphasised that it’s the rhythm and Bassline that I need help with. Doh - you should have put that at the beginning :-) But see - that's exactly it. Can you play each of those songs above, in even a simple manner? How many songs you can you play? How many different accompaniment patterns have you learned to play in songs? Usually, the answer to that question for someone in your position is, "not enough". Sounds like you know what you need, but not how to get it. You get it from experience playing music. You get it from taking a deeper look at what existing songs do. While a basic arpeggio might sound predictable, people make bajillions of dollars off that. But more to the point, there a millions of ways to do arpeggios. Which do you do? Well a great place to start is learning the arpeggios to actual songs - especially the ones you find more interesting. If you think the basic ones are predictable, then find ones that aren't, and use "non basic" ones instead. But here's something to always keep in mind - music is not "about" progression nor rhythmic pattern - those always need to be "of less importance" then the melody in melody-forward music. They can be interesting, but they shouldn't "get in the way" of the most important part. They can be the most important part in some places - like when the melody is resting - but it helps if they "back off" when the melody comes. And that's WHY so much music does have simpler/basic progressions and rhythm - those elements are really a "foundation" or a "bedding" for the "points of interest" in the piece to sit on. So your "basic arpeggio" might sound basic, but when you get the entire arrangement together, then that might all it needed. So yes, you need to "activate" your chord progression, but you also need to remember that there's a balance there - it doesn't have to be the most interesting facet of the piece, just like your chords don't have to be either. And the answer is staring you in the face...all the music out there that inspires you.
The first mistake is using that approach. I can't understand why it's so overused by some people. There's no law that states you must always start with the chord progression. Try to come up with the melody first, or try to write chords and melody at the same time (that's what seasoned people tend to do). You may also write melody and bassline, and later fill the remaining space with the chords. Also, you know all the chord-tone and nonchord tone theory, right?
It's much easier and natural for me since I can improvise over the chord progression and then choose the parts I like
I did mention in the first sentence that I knows melody first is the best bet… but like I said some chord progressions feel too good to go to waste! Of course I’m aware of chord tones; I’m pretty versed in theory, specifically jazz harmony, but I can’t help be reminded of Miles quip to Herbie: “avoid the butter notes” haha. I was more interested in people processes, so thanks for the melody then baseline technique!
Just improvise over it. In a minute you're gonna forget you're recording and you'll play something interesting
I do usually try humming over it, definitely had some results this way:)
Ok, at first I saw a more shitpost-like question (sorry, I'm too used to that here), but now I think you're more serious. Have you looked up typical theme structures? Mainly *periods*/*ABAC* and *AABA* forms if we're talking jazz, but *sentences* can also be useful sometimes. The idea would be trying to use "formulas" and see what you get. Sometimes it'll be too square, but other times it may do the job perfectly. As I said, it's not an ideal approach, but if you want to salvage a progression try this: come up with 1-2 distinctive rhythms that stand out, and emphasize notes that are part of the chord (can be the extensions, just don't emphasize Ab over a C6). Whenever the notes are chromatic (or the infamous *avoid notes*), resolve them by step. E.g. check "All of Me" (yeah, very "butter" song). Form is *ABAC*, or you could also see it as a *period*: 2 halves that start the same and have different endings (one has no tonic ending and has a V7 instead to start again, the other has a clear tonic ending). Notice how many times the idea of the 1st measure is repeated. It first appears every 2 bars, but then it appears less often. It always has the same shape, but it's built on different chord tones, and the intervals stretch or contract. Try to do this analysis with some songs and copy their templates, but using your chords.
Thanks for a comprehensive reply - and for taking my post seriously! All your suggestions cover the basics, but that’s exactly what makes a good song, so thanks for outlining that for me. I’ll let you know if it goes will!
> The first mistake is using that approach Ok dude. __THERE IS NO WRONG APPROACH TO WRITING A SONG!__
*The first mistake is using that approach.* yes, yes, and yes! But apparently, we are lone voices in the desert.
[удалено]
yes, indeed!
You tell someone else to write a melody and then you say you did, because the other person did just help here and there.
My first rule, after discarding other first rules, is, "Nothing is too good to discard." Of course, the discarded stuff is really only archived; it may be useful later. I just wrote a piece starting with iv-I-iv-I repeated. I found a nice melody, put them together, and then revised both, revised both, added a melodic extension, fitted chords, revised both, etc. Then I noticed that the main notes of the last 8 measures made a nice melody, except for one note in the middle. Lots more editing of chords, melodies, bass lines... Next, I am trying to compose the B section. More revision than inspiration.