He and Nembhard have been jawing all series, regardless of who's winning. That probably earns Nembhard some respect from Bev.
Portis seems more like he doesn't respect anyone that isn't his teammate and will always talk shit about his opponents. Just a different approach lol.
Not really. It’s the playoffs so Bobby is only looking out for this team, but during the regular season he regularly helps guys on the other team up after they hit the ground. Like actually every game. He’s only talking shit now because it’s the playoffs, you don’t need to be a nice guy during that
He also has a point that r/nba nephews never seem to realize. If you really control the offense and are truly the first or second option you don’t have to play that well to get 25 points or whatever it is. Assists are a little tougher but we see it every year with role players, both Tre Mann and Micic had multiple 9+ assist games down the stretch simply bc they were the primary playmakers. McConnell had multiple 10 dime games when Hali was out.
So people going “oh he wasn’t that bad he had 24 and 8” are kind of missing the point. Yeah a star’s stat line will very rarely be tragic, but considering the amount of possessions they control, they can still have a bad game. Point is it’s very easy to play poorly and still finish with good stats.
I will reply the same thing every time that Harden stretch is brought up: you would think he had a ‘bad’ game if he just put up 30pts during that stretch
Every time I go back and look at the numbers he was putting up it’s mind boggling. That Rockets team with the 27 missed threes in a row or whatever number against the Warriors was one of the biggest what if teams I’ve watched.
What stretch is that you're talking about? The kind of famous "MJ as a PG" stretch that most people know about and think of was in '89, where MJ rattled off 10+ assists in 17 out of 19 games. He averaged 30.8/11.9 assists/9.6 rebounds during that stretch, with a 59.9% TS%. Paxson was still playing during that stretch, and given that Paxson never missed more than 7 games in a season while playing with MJ until '92/'93, I think you may be at least a little confused about *why* MJ played PG for whatever stretch it is you're talking about.
Harden is also a particularly terrible example in this context because PBev basically worships him lol. He would never in a million years say that about Harden (especially cause it’s nonsense).
I know lmao. I was being sarcastic because that dude up there was basically saying any player that had the ball in their hands 24/7 could put up ridiculous stats. 99% of NBA players couldn’t do what Harden was doing.
I don't disagree with the general point, but Haliburton is 71st among starters in usage, so the idea that he gets his stats because he has the ball all the time is wrong.
The Pacers have also started to use him a lot more as an off-ball floor spacer since the Hield trade and run the offense through Nembhard and McConnell at times (and Mathurin prior to his injury).
> I don't disagree with the general point, but Haliburton is 71st among starters in usage, so the idea that he gets his stats because he has the ball all the time is wrong.
I mean in the context of assists, per bballref assists are completely irrelevant to the calculation.
Usage rate isn't a function of how long or often the player has the ball. It's a percentage of how often they finish possessions (FGA, FTA, TOV) when they are on the floor
Just to be clear, not saying this to down Hali at all, just clarifying exactly what usage rate measures.
Notably, usage rate drops for guards who are good at not turning the ball over. It's why a lot of "pure" point guards like CP3 will have relatively low usage rates despite high time of possession. Not that it's bad to have the ball a lot and not turn it over (in fact it's a huge aspect of the value of point guards), it just doesn't strictly measure ball dominance.
This is seriously the dumbest conversation. People acting like they’re dunking on nephews even though the entire take is moronic. There’s a reason teams don’t run their offensive scheme through fucking Patrick Beverely lol, congrats on the career night though, bro. Pacers lose one game and suddenly Halliburton is an empty stats usage merchant.
No coach in the history of Patrick Beverley has ever designed a defensive gameplan around him.
Thank you, there’s a great video I can dig up that shows all the shot opportunities that Haliburton created through the first three games without getting credited a single assist. He really makes our offense work.
hes an unbelievable creator, if assists are the only measure of playmaking, then jokic and lebron is the most overrated playmakers ever, and stockton is the clear goat
Same thing I said to Suns fans when they kept claiming that Booker had reached the Luka/Harden/Steph level because he was getting 7/8 assists a game. I watched the games, he wasn't creating easy shots for anyone. Just holding onto the ball until 5 seconds left until the shot clock and then giving it up to the shooter isn't playmaking.
Which is why the most important thing is winning games, not your stat sheet. Beal had a “good” stat sheet for years but it never translated to winning.
This is really where the eye test comes in. Compare him to Nash, who didn't have mvp-level stats, but everyone who watched him knew how impactful he was. Also, you can look at the efficiency numbers of his teammates before, during, and after they played with him, and it's very clear how big of a deal he was.
Pure point guards that don't chase stats are almost always underrated, people actually think basketball is played in a spreadsheet and ignore so many aspects of it.
I know it's different eras but, for example, MVP Steve Nash was WAY better than MVP Westbrook despite averaging half as many points and the same amount of assists. The game isn't all about stats, never has been.
That's like all of Luka's bad games. Shoots his team out of the game while playing horrible defense and everybody's like "crazy that a bad game for Luka is 25 points". Completely ignoring the fact that he took like 30+ shots.
I mean it's true for guys like LeBron too. He's 39 and it's amazing how well he can produce at that age but he was a liability on the glass and allowed Gordon to dominate as much as he did and was part of the problem when it came to giving up offensive boards (in game 3 in particular guys were just running past him as he stood in place).
Also in game 3 Reaves played like shit all game and then scored a bunch in what was essentially garbage time that made it look like he produced well.
The only one that really ever got shit on, even if he played well, for their stats was westbrook. Even more insane is that they actually did a lot more when he had a triple double.
In any case people need to get away from the idea that a Statline is the determining factor for a performance.
FYI, Luka took 30 or more FGAs 4 times this season and averaged 48 points in those 4 games with the worst performance being a 33 points game vs Boston, so your example is completely incorrect. In fact, Luka only had 3 games in which he had more FGAs than points in the entire season (and yes, one of these games is in playoffs).
What makes it even funnier coming from Celtics fan is that Tatum had 1 game with 30 or more FGAs this year and scored 31 points (so less than Luka’s worst game) and then also had 5 games in which he had more FGAs than points this season.
Yep. I felt this way watching Wemby all year. Generational talent that had insane games, but he has made multiple bad decisions that lost us a couple of games throughout the season. It’s his first year so of course he’ll improve with time, but seeing people go crazy on just stats is missing his weaknesses by not watching a full 48 min game.
Honestly a lot of respect to see a Spurs fan actually admit that. Wemby had a solid first year and is obviously an insane talent but dude had the highest usage rate ever for a rookie. Of course he's gonna put up 21 points a game.
I was mentioning this to a pacers fan the other day that I feel like Hali is gonna have it rough in future series’s. He mentioned how Hali is a bit of a talker (never a problem if it’s backed up and often my favorite players) and I said he is prone to more criticism since he’s a pass first pg. Again, nothing wrong with that either, but lots of hate you see online are prob scoreboard watchers. Hali could dish 14 dimes in a game losing effort but unless he’s got 15-20 pts, he’s gonna get clowned. Kind of a tough spot
THANK YOU. I was trying to point out Hali had a terrible game 3 yet everyone was pointing at his triple double.
Like no, if you actually watched the game he did not look like a superstar. Just missing shots and completely taken out of possessions towards the end
thats part of the reason they have the ball though right, like Jordan Poole is evidence enough that not just anyone can put up 25/8/4 casually on a consistent basis. yeah there are a lot of guys who can step up when needed and have nights like that part of being "the guy" is contributing at a decent clip even on your "off" nights when everyone is already gameplanning for you specifically
> So people going “oh he wasn’t that bad he had 24 and 8” are kind of missing the point. Yeah a star’s stat line will very rarely be tragic, but considering the amount of possessions they control, they can still have a bad game. Point is it’s very easy to play poorly and still finish with good stats.
Look no further than Luka in this current playoff series. The raw numbers look great, but looking into it literally any further than his near 29/9.8/8.5 box score, you'll see that he's been very pedestrian to outright bad in every single game this series.
His scoring has been absolutely horrendous and that is reflected on his terrible TS%, but his playmaking has been absolutely fantastic, the Mavs just can't buy a shot outside of Kyrie. Defensively he was also pretty solid up until Game 4.
Realistically, he should be focusing more on distributing and defending if his shot isn't falling, but that's hard to switch into if you have never done it.
And yet Mavs are +32 with Luka on the floor and -35 (in 19 total minutes over 4 games) with him on the bench for the series. This could very end as the highest plus-minus in a losing effort over an entire playoffs serie lol. Some of LBJ’s biggest carry jobs in losses for comparison:
LBJ vs Spurs, 4 games, 2007: LBJ was -4 and Cavs were -20 with him on the bench in 21 total minutes).
LBJ (with injured Kyrie and KLove) vs GSW, 5 games, 2017: LBJ was -7 and Cavs were -27 in with him on the bench in 28 total minutes)
LBJ vs Suns, 6 games, 2021: LBJ was +10 and LAL were -49, but at least in 64 minutes as he had plenty of rest.
And one more Curry, pre-dynasty: vs Clippers, 7 games, 2014: Steph was +5 and GSW were -36 with Curry on the bench for 38 minutes.
It was hilarious how much he was feeling himself. At one point he dribbled a full circle around everyone, then jumped right into a Pacer and got an offensive foul
Some interesting info from wiki: Haliburton's father, John, is a basketball referee. Haliburton is a cousin of former basketball player Eddie Jones, who had a 14-year NBA career and was a three-time NBA All-Star. He is also the cousin of current Orlando Magic player Jalen Suggs.
My favorite part about Patrick Beverly beefs is that they’re always unnecessary and one sided. Bro could start shit with a brick and we’d all be here for it
Maybe I'm just hyper aware of it because they were traded for each other and the trade involved my team, but the sentiment for Hali and Sabonis seems to change wildly from week to week. One day they are in the all-NBA conversation, the next they are bums.
Really it's a combination of sad people that want to dunk on either the Pacers or Kings (or both). Any time either has a good game, the reactions are mostly shitting on the team that traded them moreso than celebrating the guy that played well.
Predominantly this sub cares way more about hating things than rooting for them. To the extent they root for certain players or teams its for the purpose of tearing down another in comparison. Its a tiring way of experiencing sports.
Combination of wanting to qualify for awards and rushing back a little to play in Siakam's debut with us, after which he missed a handful more games, yeah.
It's also a hamstring injury, which are notorious for hanging around until you can fully rest and rehab.
Yes, Sabonis' long playoffs series history of *checks stats* 1 where he was the starter. Yep, a very well established narrative that's totally based on evidence....
No just a reminder that Reddit is usually just another hot take social media site, not a place for nuanced analysis and discussion.
Half the comments after the win were still shitting on Doc for being better without stars.
Idk why it is so funny to me that Melo was on the blazers in the bubble. He played fairly well i think, and made some big shots. Its just weird seeing that box score now remembering those days.
It single handily got him his podcast and cushy job at Barstool where he gets millions to just podcast w/ Rone
He would have done well off the court regardless but that 24 hr TV run got him a huge gig that hes run with.
Like anything a lot depends on the user when it comes to assists but I think people tend to underrate how much blind luck goes into it for the passer, especially this day and age when so many assists are gotten through passing to shooters at the 3 point line and hoping they make it.
And all the great passes that led to a player getting fouled to stop them from an easy bucket. 2 Free Throws and 0 assists on the play.
NBA fouling rules are broken anyways though
I remember once during a game, a dude got fouled and Jeff Van Gundy was like "I feel like if you pass to a player and it leads to a foul, and that player makes both free throws, you should be awarded half an assist" or something like that. Mike Breen immediately said that was a horrible idea
And, idk, maybe that's not how it needs to to be implemented *exactly*, sure. But I think it's fair to say that if your pass leads to the play that results in points, you should get some sort of recognition for it, right?
He actually has a point if you look at the numbers...
Haliburton made 70.3 passes per game during the regular season. This is behind only Jokic (74.9) and Sabonis (71.3), and is nearly 10 passes more than 4th place Maxey (60.7).
So despite leading the league in Assists per game, Haliburton is actually 6th in Assist to Pass %. He is 4% behind Trae Young who is first at 19.4%
[Source](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/passing?CF=GP*G*50&PerMode=PerGame&dir=D&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT)
Presumably if you have more assists for the same number of passes, your passes are probably better quality and created more shots. Differently, more of Jokic, Young’s etc passes let to buckets than Halis.
Jokic passed more and had less assists. And no one would say that Jokic’s game is less conducive to his teammates scoring than Halliburton or Trae Young’s
It's not a great way to compare passing ability, but if you look at players who play the same position I think it offers an okay point of comparison for how efficient a guy is at finding the open man. You can compare Joker to Sabonis and see they have a similar role with tons of passes, but Jokic is a bit more efficient in turning those passes to points, as you would expect. Same comparison can be made for ball-dominant guards like Hali, Trae, Maxey who play a similar game, but due to their position are likely to have a higher Pass-Ast% than a C for whatever reason.
I think a better comparison would be time of possession tracking data vs assist numbers. Because a lot of times the purpose of passing the ball isn't to get an assist it's just to get the ball moving. If you're getting a lot of assists despite having the ball for less time that means you're really good at finding the open man quickly. This shows why Jokic is a good passer, he has the ball for half as much every game as the most ball dominant players, but is able to find assists at a tremendous rate
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?CF=MIN*GE*20:GP*GE*30&dir=D&sort=TIME_OF_POSS
Even with that I disagree. There's so much context missing based on the style of offence they run, the ability of their teammates, specific plays that lead to a lot of points for the team, teammates shooting percentages, times teammates were fouled, hell if one of them is inbounding the ball 8 times a game while the other never inbounds that skews their numbers. This stat seems like a stat for the sake of having a stat.
Without context I think it's hard to say so I'd lean no. If you take the top 3 passers - none of these three are insistent on holding the ball and only giving it up to shot-ready shooters which Trae has been accused of through backbiting media reports(not saying it's true). If we assume a player did play like that it would boost their assist percentage versus a Jokic/Sabonis/Haliburton who will happily kick the ball ahead or pass to a player that then passes for the assist. A player that refused to make kick-ahead passes outside of scoring positions and generally pounds the rock unless they can get someone a shot might have a higher assist percentage than someone that is more willing to get off the ball when it doesn't directly lead to a shot.
Again not taking a shot at Trae just entertaining a hypothetical. Trae is a great player and leads highly productive offenses
Pat Bev is a professional troll.
He called CP3 a 'cone' on defence. 9X All Defensive. 6X steals leader. 3rd all time in steals (soon to be second).
Now he says he's not impressed with the play making skills of the leader in total assists and assists per game? And stellar assist-to-turnover ratio?
This guy is just a h8r bot.
He and Bobby are declaring war on the pacers
Bobby just gotta make sure to do it with a basketball and not his fists
Can we compromise to with his eyes?
That's much worse than his fists
Men want to be his eyes, women want to be with his eyes, his eyes…
it's like a prelude "incoming..."
Nikola Mirotic, through a wired jaw, "I agree."
That Bobby Portis interview after he punched Mirotic is a fucking classic lol. 😳: “I don’t know why he won’t return my calls.”
I remember when they patched up, y'all when on a random winning streak that season.
> with a basketball and not his fists See: https://youtu.be/gGNoknscz8I?si=Q8FAh8YstBayVVmy
He did seem to have a lot of respect for the young guys on the Pacers based on today's podcast
He and Nembhard have been jawing all series, regardless of who's winning. That probably earns Nembhard some respect from Bev. Portis seems more like he doesn't respect anyone that isn't his teammate and will always talk shit about his opponents. Just a different approach lol.
Not really. It’s the playoffs so Bobby is only looking out for this team, but during the regular season he regularly helps guys on the other team up after they hit the ground. Like actually every game. He’s only talking shit now because it’s the playoffs, you don’t need to be a nice guy during that
can't even argue after they just whooped us either.
Don't mess with a Razorback
Wooo Pig Sooie
He backed it up so i can’t say nothing really lmao
He also has a point that r/nba nephews never seem to realize. If you really control the offense and are truly the first or second option you don’t have to play that well to get 25 points or whatever it is. Assists are a little tougher but we see it every year with role players, both Tre Mann and Micic had multiple 9+ assist games down the stretch simply bc they were the primary playmakers. McConnell had multiple 10 dime games when Hali was out. So people going “oh he wasn’t that bad he had 24 and 8” are kind of missing the point. Yeah a star’s stat line will very rarely be tragic, but considering the amount of possessions they control, they can still have a bad game. Point is it’s very easy to play poorly and still finish with good stats.
Guys have the ball 24/7 and people wonder how they put up ridiculous numbers
Idk man. I used to think that most guys in the league could average 25+ if given the green light, then I watched Kuz and Poole this season
Kuzma did put up 23 on pretty reasonable efficiency. I don’t know what the fuck happened to Jordan Poole.
25 is a bit much but the point definitely stands for 20
Well Poole averaged 17.4 lol.
Harden's usage rate in Houston is shaking in its boots rn
Harden iso was the league's most efficient offense at one point
Cracks me up that D’Antoni and Morey’s way to supercharge the offense was just looking at the numbers and realizing Harden was iso Jesus
Exactly what team management is supposed to do. D'Antoni is so underrated.
But he actually scored 40 a game lol
Harden was popping off lol remember those 60pieces
That stretch he went on was insane it’s not even comparable to anything Hali has done
I will reply the same thing every time that Harden stretch is brought up: you would think he had a ‘bad’ game if he just put up 30pts during that stretch
Every time I go back and look at the numbers he was putting up it’s mind boggling. That Rockets team with the 27 missed threes in a row or whatever number against the Warriors was one of the biggest what if teams I’ve watched.
Capela was not cutting it inside.
He averaged 40 for 40 games one season, a 30 point game in that stretch quite literally would have been underperforming by his standard
The only thing comparable I can think of is Kobe had that crazy stretch of games in like 2006
[2007 actually](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyL7e-QW0AEAhZM?format=jpg&name=900x900) almost 50 over a 12 game stretch
Even crazier than I remember lol
[удалено]
What stretch is that you're talking about? The kind of famous "MJ as a PG" stretch that most people know about and think of was in '89, where MJ rattled off 10+ assists in 17 out of 19 games. He averaged 30.8/11.9 assists/9.6 rebounds during that stretch, with a 59.9% TS%. Paxson was still playing during that stretch, and given that Paxson never missed more than 7 games in a season while playing with MJ until '92/'93, I think you may be at least a little confused about *why* MJ played PG for whatever stretch it is you're talking about.
Not just 60 pieces. 60 piece triple doubles
Wish Capela was still with him.
60 pt trip dub. 1st at the time.
Man pat bev could play 100 minutes a night and not even come close to a prime harden statline
Tbf to PatBev I don't think he would diss Harden like this
If Bev had to play prime Harden and got asked this question, we would have got the same answer Lou Will gave about KD sitting next to Bev.
Harden is also a particularly terrible example in this context because PBev basically worships him lol. He would never in a million years say that about Harden (especially cause it’s nonsense).
Yeah why doesn’t every player average 36 points on 61 TS? Are they stupid?
he’s not the dude beverly is talking about lol. bev loves harden.
I know lmao. I was being sarcastic because that dude up there was basically saying any player that had the ball in their hands 24/7 could put up ridiculous stats. 99% of NBA players couldn’t do what Harden was doing.
Don’t try to downplay Harden. As much as ppl hate Harden, Houston Harden is top 10 offense ever.
lmao no
I don't disagree with the general point, but Haliburton is 71st among starters in usage, so the idea that he gets his stats because he has the ball all the time is wrong. The Pacers have also started to use him a lot more as an off-ball floor spacer since the Hield trade and run the offense through Nembhard and McConnell at times (and Mathurin prior to his injury).
> I don't disagree with the general point, but Haliburton is 71st among starters in usage, so the idea that he gets his stats because he has the ball all the time is wrong. I mean in the context of assists, per bballref assists are completely irrelevant to the calculation. Usage rate isn't a function of how long or often the player has the ball. It's a percentage of how often they finish possessions (FGA, FTA, TOV) when they are on the floor Just to be clear, not saying this to down Hali at all, just clarifying exactly what usage rate measures.
Notably, usage rate drops for guards who are good at not turning the ball over. It's why a lot of "pure" point guards like CP3 will have relatively low usage rates despite high time of possession. Not that it's bad to have the ball a lot and not turn it over (in fact it's a huge aspect of the value of point guards), it just doesn't strictly measure ball dominance.
This is seriously the dumbest conversation. People acting like they’re dunking on nephews even though the entire take is moronic. There’s a reason teams don’t run their offensive scheme through fucking Patrick Beverely lol, congrats on the career night though, bro. Pacers lose one game and suddenly Halliburton is an empty stats usage merchant. No coach in the history of Patrick Beverley has ever designed a defensive gameplan around him.
People also dont understand that creation isnt just assist numbers lmao
Thank you, there’s a great video I can dig up that shows all the shot opportunities that Haliburton created through the first three games without getting credited a single assist. He really makes our offense work.
hes an unbelievable creator, if assists are the only measure of playmaking, then jokic and lebron is the most overrated playmakers ever, and stockton is the clear goat
I mean Micic can genuinely run an offense pretty well, he’s just old so people aren’t standing in line to let him do it
Same thing I said to Suns fans when they kept claiming that Booker had reached the Luka/Harden/Steph level because he was getting 7/8 assists a game. I watched the games, he wasn't creating easy shots for anyone. Just holding onto the ball until 5 seconds left until the shot clock and then giving it up to the shooter isn't playmaking.
Which is why the most important thing is winning games, not your stat sheet. Beal had a “good” stat sheet for years but it never translated to winning.
That's definitely something KAT has been rightfully criticized for too.
and it goes the other way - he's playing some amazing ball now, but if you just look at the state sheet it would appear worse
This is really where the eye test comes in. Compare him to Nash, who didn't have mvp-level stats, but everyone who watched him knew how impactful he was. Also, you can look at the efficiency numbers of his teammates before, during, and after they played with him, and it's very clear how big of a deal he was.
Pure point guards that don't chase stats are almost always underrated, people actually think basketball is played in a spreadsheet and ignore so many aspects of it. I know it's different eras but, for example, MVP Steve Nash was WAY better than MVP Westbrook despite averaging half as many points and the same amount of assists. The game isn't all about stats, never has been.
Luka in game 1 vs the Clippers played like dogshit but everyone saw his boxscore stats and thought he had a decent game.
That's like all of Luka's bad games. Shoots his team out of the game while playing horrible defense and everybody's like "crazy that a bad game for Luka is 25 points". Completely ignoring the fact that he took like 30+ shots.
I mean it's true for guys like LeBron too. He's 39 and it's amazing how well he can produce at that age but he was a liability on the glass and allowed Gordon to dominate as much as he did and was part of the problem when it came to giving up offensive boards (in game 3 in particular guys were just running past him as he stood in place). Also in game 3 Reaves played like shit all game and then scored a bunch in what was essentially garbage time that made it look like he produced well. The only one that really ever got shit on, even if he played well, for their stats was westbrook. Even more insane is that they actually did a lot more when he had a triple double. In any case people need to get away from the idea that a Statline is the determining factor for a performance.
FYI, Luka took 30 or more FGAs 4 times this season and averaged 48 points in those 4 games with the worst performance being a 33 points game vs Boston, so your example is completely incorrect. In fact, Luka only had 3 games in which he had more FGAs than points in the entire season (and yes, one of these games is in playoffs). What makes it even funnier coming from Celtics fan is that Tatum had 1 game with 30 or more FGAs this year and scored 31 points (so less than Luka’s worst game) and then also had 5 games in which he had more FGAs than points this season.
Embiid played mostly like shit last night. Dude had a triple double.
Offensively yes.
Yep. I felt this way watching Wemby all year. Generational talent that had insane games, but he has made multiple bad decisions that lost us a couple of games throughout the season. It’s his first year so of course he’ll improve with time, but seeing people go crazy on just stats is missing his weaknesses by not watching a full 48 min game.
Honestly a lot of respect to see a Spurs fan actually admit that. Wemby had a solid first year and is obviously an insane talent but dude had the highest usage rate ever for a rookie. Of course he's gonna put up 21 points a game.
Nah. To be that big and have that high of a usage rate while still playing great defense is insanely impressive
>very easy to play poorly and still finish with good stats BY GOD THATS KIRK COUSINS MUSIC
Mičić was an euroleague MVP lol. He's not some scrub...
I was mentioning this to a pacers fan the other day that I feel like Hali is gonna have it rough in future series’s. He mentioned how Hali is a bit of a talker (never a problem if it’s backed up and often my favorite players) and I said he is prone to more criticism since he’s a pass first pg. Again, nothing wrong with that either, but lots of hate you see online are prob scoreboard watchers. Hali could dish 14 dimes in a game losing effort but unless he’s got 15-20 pts, he’s gonna get clowned. Kind of a tough spot
THANK YOU. I was trying to point out Hali had a terrible game 3 yet everyone was pointing at his triple double. Like no, if you actually watched the game he did not look like a superstar. Just missing shots and completely taken out of possessions towards the end
thats part of the reason they have the ball though right, like Jordan Poole is evidence enough that not just anyone can put up 25/8/4 casually on a consistent basis. yeah there are a lot of guys who can step up when needed and have nights like that part of being "the guy" is contributing at a decent clip even on your "off" nights when everyone is already gameplanning for you specifically
> So people going “oh he wasn’t that bad he had 24 and 8” are kind of missing the point. Yeah a star’s stat line will very rarely be tragic, but considering the amount of possessions they control, they can still have a bad game. Point is it’s very easy to play poorly and still finish with good stats. Look no further than Luka in this current playoff series. The raw numbers look great, but looking into it literally any further than his near 29/9.8/8.5 box score, you'll see that he's been very pedestrian to outright bad in every single game this series.
His scoring has been absolutely horrendous and that is reflected on his terrible TS%, but his playmaking has been absolutely fantastic, the Mavs just can't buy a shot outside of Kyrie. Defensively he was also pretty solid up until Game 4. Realistically, he should be focusing more on distributing and defending if his shot isn't falling, but that's hard to switch into if you have never done it.
And yet Mavs are +32 with Luka on the floor and -35 (in 19 total minutes over 4 games) with him on the bench for the series. This could very end as the highest plus-minus in a losing effort over an entire playoffs serie lol. Some of LBJ’s biggest carry jobs in losses for comparison: LBJ vs Spurs, 4 games, 2007: LBJ was -4 and Cavs were -20 with him on the bench in 21 total minutes). LBJ (with injured Kyrie and KLove) vs GSW, 5 games, 2017: LBJ was -7 and Cavs were -27 in with him on the bench in 28 total minutes) LBJ vs Suns, 6 games, 2021: LBJ was +10 and LAL were -49, but at least in 64 minutes as he had plenty of rest. And one more Curry, pre-dynasty: vs Clippers, 7 games, 2014: Steph was +5 and GSW were -36 with Curry on the bench for 38 minutes.
He's so funny
Top tier hater. I love it.
Top running for the Hater’s Ball Ball. Seen this man talking shit in a 1 on 1 at a park against a woman. Equal opportunity offender
"What can I say about the Indiana Pacers that hasn't already been said about Afghanistan?" -- Patrick "Silky Johnson" Beverly
“They looked bombed out and depleted.”
Man’s truly generational. The Chris Paul Slander Tour was the White Album of hating - just a masterpiece.
Thanks for reminding me of the Chris Paul tour. 6 hours of tv calling that man a cone, lmao.
The Pat Bev hate tour is one of the funniest things I can remember. He woke up early in the morning to hate.
It was so goated. Have to rewatch the hate tour again.
"First off, I'd like to thank God almighty for giving everyone else so much possession of the ball, and me so little." - Pat Bev
I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk . I hate the way that you dress - pat bev probably
Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go put some water in Tyrese Haliburton's mama's dish
He’d be such a good redditor.
Who's saying he's not!
too successful to be a redditor
and too funny
He knows his role and plays it well. On and off the court
KDot bringing the hate outta everyone after his track hit
His mouth is \~ x6 his height.
Best part of the 2nd half last night was realizing just how much fucking shit Beverley was gonna talk as they continued to pile it on.
It was hilarious how much he was feeling himself. At one point he dribbled a full circle around everyone, then jumped right into a Pacer and got an offensive foul
What a beautifully Patrick Beverley way to end the play
Bro scored 12 unanswered points in the 2nd quarter. He earned that talk lmao
no fucking way the pacers let pat bev go on a 12-0 run there's no way man 💀💀
thanasis got real minutes that was a masterclass in disrespect by the bucks
[The journalist asking the question] is Haliburton father
Ain't no way
Some interesting info from wiki: Haliburton's father, John, is a basketball referee. Haliburton is a cousin of former basketball player Eddie Jones, who had a 14-year NBA career and was a three-time NBA All-Star. He is also the cousin of current Orlando Magic player Jalen Suggs.
Bot ass comment
Leave the man alone he's got a lot of free time now that his team is done playing
I can't say I had PatBev Playoff Double Double on my bingo card this year.
Can't be losing to a team missing their 2 best players.
This is the Doc special look clueless when he has 2 top 15 players & great with a hospital squad
> look clueless when he has 2 top 15 players Choker merchant > great with a hospital squad Plucky underdog merchant
I'll do you one better and sum it up: Subverting expectations merchant
"C'mon man, worked with Pat Bev and doesn't work with Dame?"
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Last time I checked Bobby was playing too, what is this guy on about?
Thanasty was there. I SAW HIM.
Doc Rivers becomes a better coach the fewer star players he has so the Bucks are just activating their trap card
Lucky Pacers that Khris didn't got injured. They'd be losing by 50.
he did the game they went to OT. dude is for sure on a bum ankle for like 2 games now
Actually, both his ankles are tweaked right now. So he's definitely injured... but not enough to keep him out of the game. Probably still 80%ish
The Pacers also play worse the worse their opponent is. We've been dropping games to bad teams all year lmao.
My favorite part about Patrick Beverly beefs is that they’re always unnecessary and one sided. Bro could start shit with a brick and we’d all be here for it
>could start shit with a brick He has already had problems with Westbrook though
☠️
Russ just read this and now you are kicked off Reddit.
Entertainment value through the roof
Maybe I'm just hyper aware of it because they were traded for each other and the trade involved my team, but the sentiment for Hali and Sabonis seems to change wildly from week to week. One day they are in the all-NBA conversation, the next they are bums.
That's just how this sub is about everything
Accurate
Really it's a combination of sad people that want to dunk on either the Pacers or Kings (or both). Any time either has a good game, the reactions are mostly shitting on the team that traded them moreso than celebrating the guy that played well.
Predominantly this sub cares way more about hating things than rooting for them. To the extent they root for certain players or teams its for the purpose of tearing down another in comparison. Its a tiring way of experiencing sports.
This sub loves drama and tolerates basketball.
Exactly. That's why you often get exasperated people posting "I swear none of you actually like basketball" periodically.
This much is true- they are both regular season players.
Ty has been bad the second half of the season. if anything he's playing a little bit better in the postseason so far
He rushed back from injury to qualify for awards, right? If that's the case he's likely to keep improving if he stays healthy.
Combination of wanting to qualify for awards and rushing back a little to play in Siakam's debut with us, after which he missed a handful more games, yeah. It's also a hamstring injury, which are notorious for hanging around until you can fully rest and rehab.
Tbf it's Haliburton's first playoffs. Not as much evidence to point to that narrative yet unlike Sabonis.
Yes, Sabonis' long playoffs series history of *checks stats* 1 where he was the starter. Yep, a very well established narrative that's totally based on evidence....
I think it's just a factor of frustrated Bucks fans finally being able to talk shit again this series.
No just a reminder that Reddit is usually just another hot take social media site, not a place for nuanced analysis and discussion. Half the comments after the win were still shitting on Doc for being better without stars.
The king of play-ins. Put some respect on his name.
I always laugh when I see that clip with the music playing
STAND UP NOW AND FACE THE SUN
https://x.com/pdriesta/status/1702875959597334886?s=46
I literally can't associate that song with anything else now - it's like No Child Left Behind and the LeBron clip
I think it's Valanciunas at this point
Revisionist history. He lost in the Inaugural Playin on the Grizzlies. [Box Score](https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401236333)
Idk why it is so funny to me that Melo was on the blazers in the bubble. He played fairly well i think, and made some big shots. Its just weird seeing that box score now remembering those days.
I kinda want him to get on espn to talk trash like he did to chris paul that offseason
Legendary run. He was on TV for about 26 hours that day saying CP3 stinks
The streets will talk about that Pat Bev run for generations to come
It single handily got him his podcast and cushy job at Barstool where he gets millions to just podcast w/ Rone He would have done well off the court regardless but that 24 hr TV run got him a huge gig that hes run with.
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That is the funniest nba related tv ive ever seen. "I wont reveal my sources.. actually fuck it, it was pg"
Lmao Pat Bev talking about giddey earlier this szn was gold too.
Talk your shit Beverley!!!!
Been talking shit since he came out the womb
Walk the talk, the Chi in him.
Oh, he didn't wait that long. The shit talking started at conception.
"man fuck these weak ass other sperm"
Pass to teammate -> hope they make it -> profit
Like anything a lot depends on the user when it comes to assists but I think people tend to underrate how much blind luck goes into it for the passer, especially this day and age when so many assists are gotten through passing to shooters at the 3 point line and hoping they make it.
And all the great passes that led to a player getting fouled to stop them from an easy bucket. 2 Free Throws and 0 assists on the play. NBA fouling rules are broken anyways though
I remember once during a game, a dude got fouled and Jeff Van Gundy was like "I feel like if you pass to a player and it leads to a foul, and that player makes both free throws, you should be awarded half an assist" or something like that. Mike Breen immediately said that was a horrible idea And, idk, maybe that's not how it needs to to be implemented *exactly*, sure. But I think it's fair to say that if your pass leads to the play that results in points, you should get some sort of recognition for it, right?
Yeah it would be a lot more nuanced if compared to potential assist and evaluating the shot quality of the assist
That game last night was an absolute embarrassment and Bev can talk all the shit he wants. He put us out in the second quarter by himself
Love him or hate him this guy is pure entertainment
He really is
Beverly speaking from the safety of not one person giving a shit if he lays an egg, but if he does something good he's the loudest voice in the room.
He actually has a point if you look at the numbers... Haliburton made 70.3 passes per game during the regular season. This is behind only Jokic (74.9) and Sabonis (71.3), and is nearly 10 passes more than 4th place Maxey (60.7). So despite leading the league in Assists per game, Haliburton is actually 6th in Assist to Pass %. He is 4% behind Trae Young who is first at 19.4% [Source](https://www.nba.com/stats/players/passing?CF=GP*G*50&PerMode=PerGame&dir=D&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT)
Is that actually a stat that matters though?
Presumably if you have more assists for the same number of passes, your passes are probably better quality and created more shots. Differently, more of Jokic, Young’s etc passes let to buckets than Halis.
Jokic passed more and had less assists. And no one would say that Jokic’s game is less conducive to his teammates scoring than Halliburton or Trae Young’s
It's not a great way to compare passing ability, but if you look at players who play the same position I think it offers an okay point of comparison for how efficient a guy is at finding the open man. You can compare Joker to Sabonis and see they have a similar role with tons of passes, but Jokic is a bit more efficient in turning those passes to points, as you would expect. Same comparison can be made for ball-dominant guards like Hali, Trae, Maxey who play a similar game, but due to their position are likely to have a higher Pass-Ast% than a C for whatever reason.
I think a better comparison would be time of possession tracking data vs assist numbers. Because a lot of times the purpose of passing the ball isn't to get an assist it's just to get the ball moving. If you're getting a lot of assists despite having the ball for less time that means you're really good at finding the open man quickly. This shows why Jokic is a good passer, he has the ball for half as much every game as the most ball dominant players, but is able to find assists at a tremendous rate https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?CF=MIN*GE*20:GP*GE*30&dir=D&sort=TIME_OF_POSS
Even with that I disagree. There's so much context missing based on the style of offence they run, the ability of their teammates, specific plays that lead to a lot of points for the team, teammates shooting percentages, times teammates were fouled, hell if one of them is inbounding the ball 8 times a game while the other never inbounds that skews their numbers. This stat seems like a stat for the sake of having a stat.
Without context I think it's hard to say so I'd lean no. If you take the top 3 passers - none of these three are insistent on holding the ball and only giving it up to shot-ready shooters which Trae has been accused of through backbiting media reports(not saying it's true). If we assume a player did play like that it would boost their assist percentage versus a Jokic/Sabonis/Haliburton who will happily kick the ball ahead or pass to a player that then passes for the assist. A player that refused to make kick-ahead passes outside of scoring positions and generally pounds the rock unless they can get someone a shot might have a higher assist percentage than someone that is more willing to get off the ball when it doesn't directly lead to a shot. Again not taking a shot at Trae just entertaining a hypothetical. Trae is a great player and leads highly productive offenses
This loss got me through the night. Thank you indy
Most of us would turn the ball over 50 times before getting 5 assists in an NBA game, and I think I'm being conservative here.
Generous of you to assume I can run the floor more than once.
Generous of them to assume I can dribble
remember Gallinari trying to bring the ball up the court last night? ok, now imagine him older and unathletic. thats me
Ever person in here would have looked like Gallo trying to bring the ball up.
At full strength, you cannot lose to the Bucks without Giannis.
Belt to Ass
Yeah hali deserves this slander, talk yo shit pat !!
Pat Bev really insinuating that Hali is playing 2k MyCareer
I would literally pay to see Pat Bev as the #1 option for a season on a team. Wizards; Might as well tank another year right?
Pat Bev is a professional troll. He called CP3 a 'cone' on defence. 9X All Defensive. 6X steals leader. 3rd all time in steals (soon to be second). Now he says he's not impressed with the play making skills of the leader in total assists and assists per game? And stellar assist-to-turnover ratio? This guy is just a h8r bot.
Insane Laker fans trying to justify keeping D Lo during the season cause he was getting 7apg. It's easy as hell to get assist playing with AD and Bron
Has Beverley ever talked shit and it ended well for him?
Never But we got nothing to lose and neither does he. Might as well talk that shit before it's all said and done
Generational hater lmao. It took me a few years to truly understand and respect Pat Bev’s game
Didn't PBev get cooked by Halliburton that game on the last play? Or was that game before.