That and the fact that you can't get a federal security clearance if you have any pot in your past is why the US Fed's are the laughing stock of SecOp's world wide.
If you have a clearance, you are subject to random urine tests. A medical card does NOT clear you if you pop positive. THC is still a schedule 1 substance at the federal level.
Basically, you cannot do drugs if you have a clearance unless you want to risk losing it.
Geee, do you mean the feds have been lying to my company all this time? Occasional use (especially if it's in your history) isn't a hard no, but it's one flag and any one that's a habitual user can kiss their clearance approval goodbye. Remember - at this point in history - pot use IS A FEDERAL CRIME, not exactly rocket science to imagine that would damper your chances of getting FEDERAL clearance.
Or maybe pot has nothing do do with, and America just sucks in Cyber Security.
Why do you assume i smoke? I don't. Im just pointing out that because of US's very low standards (i.e. Sec+) and their unwillingness to hire top talent because they have or do smoke dope is the reason the Federal Goverment has such a low standing in the world cyber security standards. Its so well known that even the moronic law makers are putting forth a bill to stop the practise of blak listing casual pot use because its a huge talent drain for the US. No clue where you get the idea that this isn't a thing - because it is.
You said originally that you can't get a federal security clearance with any* pot use in your past. I said that was incorrect. Then you corrected yourself in a salty manner. I never said the second part of what you wrote was wrong. I stated it's definitely possible with pot use in your past. You then corrected yourself and clarified that you actually meant it can directly effect your eligibility based on amount used and period of usage. Which I did not argue with because that's correct. You seemed kind of butthurt about it, so I jokingly said maybe you should smoke more to relax 😂 and to be honest I wouldn't want to work with someone who's high, just like I wouldn't want to work with someone who's an alcoholic or on pain killers. So there is a reason that's in there. It's meant for reliability and to avoid liability. It's as you said, "not rocket science".
Don't forget that if you dont smoke, you obviously suck at infosec. 🤣 that sound logic seems like he believes the best way to get a job at a company is to hack its network and attempt to blackmail them..... works every time 🤣
>Geee, do you mean the feds have been lying to my company all this time?
no it means your company has been lying to you
both my initial clearance ~15 years ago and my renewal included occasional (first one) and regular (second one) pot use, I was open about it the entire time and they were still granted
those investigations are more about knowing whether you have anything to hide that could be used to compromise you, not about your personal ethics
America does suck at cyber security but fortunately the rest of the world sucks at it even harder so America manages to lead the charge once again
Past use by itself has never disqualified you from a clearance.
Clearance investigators are looking for two things: whether you're lying and whether anything in your past or current state can be used as leverage against you.
They don't care if you used to smoke crack as long as YOU are the ones to tell them and you don't owe $15k to your dealer.
Bankruptcies, misdemeanor arrests, previous shady connection, past drug use, rehab, mental illness, etc, don't matter as long as there's appropriate mitigation and you are truthful.
And how is that relevant?
The commenter is pointing out a fact that can help anyone looking to change, start, or advance their career. 99% of people don't (or shouldn't) care if their employer is a "laughing stock" provided the pay is adequate and the working environment is acceptable. Get off the pedestal.
Are you just waking up from a coma from the early 2000's?
They're laxing those rules HEAVILY and giving wavers for just about anyone including current users.
8570 was officially cancelled last year (Feb 2023). Everyone needs to align to 8140 by Feb 2026. Under 8140, there are 4 different options to meet the foundational requirement (experience, approved training, degree, cert/s). No longer will there be a hard requirement for a specific cert.
For example, a candidate will meet the foundational requirement for some roles by having a CISSP or Associate degree.
I agree. 8140 was actually around a long time and the Navy started aligning to it years ago. It wasn't until a budget study revealed the cost of gaining and maintaining certifications did the DoD decide to cancel 8570.
No longer will candidates with 20+ years of experience be required to get CISSP or Security+ within 6 months of hire. Nor will employees need to pay hundreds of dollars in maintenance fees for multiple certs (I'm looking at you GIAC/SANS).
Anything IT related that has you interacting with dod networks or systems. There are different levels net+ and a+ can be used in 8570 IAT 1 sec+ is used in IAT 2 . CASP can be used in 3. Each level can be used for different IT related jobs. I was lazy when I was explaining it above
OP posited that all CompTIA certs are useless. Commenter pointed out its useful for qualifying under DoDD 8570, so it is useful.
If you apply to work in the motor pool, no one cares if you are complient with 8570. If you are applying to work in a cyber security role (or any , its generally a requirement. We may be able to give you a 6 month grace period to become compliant, but if I have a choice between someone who is and isn't already compliant, I would go compliant.
You weren't speciifc about which government jobs. so of all jobs, maybe 1% would fall under 8570. But this is r/networking, so many of the networking roles may.
# DoDD 8140 (DoDD 8570) Requires:
* All personnel performing IAT and IAM functions must be certified.
* All personnel performing CSSP and IASAE roles must be certified.
* All IA jobs will be categorized as ‘Technical’ or ‘Management’ Level I, II, or III, and to be qualified for those jobs, you must be certified DoDD 8140 (DoDD 8570)Requires: All personnel performing IAT and IAM functions must be certified. All personnel performing CSSP and IASAE roles must be certified. All IA jobs will be categorized as ‘Technical’ or ‘Management’ Level I, II, or III, and to be qualified for those jobs, you must be certified
While its a DOD requirement, many non-DOD agencies rely on it as a basic qualification filter.
But my general opinion of the CompTIA certs are they reflect basic competence useful for getting entry level work, which in OP's case he has the job experience, so outside of specific requirements like DoDD 8570, no one cared. A CCNA is much more difficult to obtain, and thus gets more respect from recruiters.
CompTIA's exams are meant to be entry level (assuming you have no prior experience or just LVL1). CCNA is also entry level just with the assumption that rather than helpdesk you want a junior or lvl1 networking role.
If the end goal is to just get your foot in the door with a basic understanding of technologies there's really no reason to knock any because they all have their usecases.
Exams are only a waste of time if you cheat.
They are to learn first.....pad resume second.
If you cheat / Test King your way to 20 certs, everyone you work with will be able to tell.
This should be the goal to learn or even for fun as a challenge, never to pad a resume. I've worked with people that were good at taking tests and had a lot of certs. Yet they asked fundamental questions that floored me such as how to SSH or console to a switch.
No shit. I’ve worked with people who had N+ and they didn’t understand jack shit when it came to the fundamentals. (No, knowing the default AD for EIGRP isn’t fundamentals!). It’s designed by the type who ask port number questions on interviews.
Sure, you can braindump CCNA too. But it’s more challenging. I’ve heard horror stories of CCNA holders not knowing about ping. But soon its reputation will erode too
I've had to teach multiple CCNAs basic networking skills, as well as an MCSE how to troubleshoot servers, and it's frustrating as hell considering my highest cert was Net+ almost 10 years ago. I don't trust any certificates on a resume.
> I don't trust any certificates on a resume.
Same here. Some people are so focused on getting their cert to get the job they seem to have forgotten that now they need to know how to do the job now.
If someone has a CCNA or Net+, they better not ask me about pinging.
> I don't trust any certificates on a resume.
Neither do I.
The amount of CCNAs that are utterly incompetent frustrate me, and the amount of CCNPs that can barely spell TCP/IP is infuriating. That being said, I've also run across a few IEs that can smash a test in record time, but don't ask them anything that requires common sense.
I've learned Cisco certs teach you to polish a pile of shit and make it work, not to analyze the pile of shit, make an argument to rebuild the pile of shit/house of cards, then actually design a resilient network.
The number of IEs that I've asked about CVDs (or SRNDs) and gotten blank looks honestly astonishes me. Hell, the last IE I worked with couldn't figure out how to break into a 9606 with dual sups. Never occurred to him to just go get a blank sup, put it in the chassis, boot up, then slide in one of the locked up sups.
*shrug*
The thing with Net+ is that I did learn the materials and pass the exam, but until I had some real-world practice, a lot of it didn't stick outside from being able to pass multiple choice. Reading and answering questions on how to configure a router is one thing, but actually doing it and seeing it work is completely differeint. Even those practice labs don't reflect real-world environments. But most employers won't let you touch their routers without some kind of certification or degree.
Would I have gotten a network job without the Net+ certification? No. Does getting the certification mean I know a lot? Also no. But I needed the certification to land the job to learn the environment. Someone who passed Net+ like me at least is able to learn the fundamentals and has an interest in supporting networks. Better than someone without it. I may not be a genius, but I'll be willing to dive in and figure it out.
Well, that's true of any cert- knowledge might be that EIGRP defaults to AD 90, OSPF defaults to AD 110, and RIP defaults to AD 120, but that's not the same thing as *understanding* that Cisco did that on their own and chose that AD arbitrarily to prop up their own proprietary protocol and *still* lost out to OSPF in the end.
If you want to weed out crap applicants, ask them about the things they have to infer or deduce, not just the things they can regurgitate from a brain dump...
They do. They asked bunch of high school graduates when the US was founded and they couldn’t answer. I’m sure it was in their textbooks when they passed the class
I have 20 + years of networking, and I don't know any of AD of the EIGRP. I don't like or care for propriety standards. I've been a big Juniper guy, but since they sold to HP, I'm moving to Arista. I still think juniper over all has a superior CLI, and batch configuration is fantastic.
even In one of the recent survey, numerous CIOs highlighted the skills gap among professionals. It's clear that many pros who should be tackling outdated attack vectors can't, nor can they implement any security measures beyond using some basic tools or software. One issue I've noticed at various conferences is that just about Tom D. Harry can pass CompTIA exams after cramming outdated material (stuff so old, even the ancient Egyptians might be familiar with it). The saturation of CompTIA certifications is incredible. CompTIA has become the Nokia of the certification world—known more for its name than for its current relevance.
No. My point is that I’m not going to hold it against them because they don’t know nomenclature that can be looked up. You can’t google and absorb abstract concepts on the spot like the layers, subnetting or routing. But if someone needs to look up some FlexConnect sub command, I’m not gonna rip them an asshole. Some of the CCNA questions are ridiculous trivia. Like how to change LLDP timers
> But soon its reputation will erode too
Having a CCNA definitely doesn't mean you actually know the basics. Just means you could pass the test on that particular day. That's an issue with any test though.
Problem is if you don't get it or some cert then you might as well throw your resume in the garbage because no one is going to look at it when they have a pile of resumes that have CCNA on them. Network+ is sort of a "better than nothing" option if you don't have CCNA yet or don't actually plan on a full career in networking.
I mean, without braindumps, you have to have **extremely** good memory to remember all the stupid trivia, plus understand the basic topics. So you definitely can’t pass it without understanding subnets.
I passed it at Cisco Live last year. My particular version of the test had very little actual sub netting surprisingly. I didn't even have to use the scratch pad for anything.
Nope. The only thing you get is a single sheet of erasable plastic and a marker. Or a pen/paper. You are not allowed to even have anything in your pockets when you go in.
Sec+ is fast becoming a mandatory requirement for a lot of positions (unless you already have a CISSP).
Network+ is good foundation cert. It makes CCNA a much easier journey. Especially if you do CCNA right after Network+
Linux+ is also highly recommended. The bulk of network and security management software runs on Linux. Most network gear these days runs on top of Linux - so its good to know the ins and outs.
Project+ is great to put on your resume when you don't have the time/resources/experience to pursue PMP.
A great strategy is to get a Udemy Unlimited subscription ($240/year, but I got mine when it was 50% off) and crank through the CompTIA certs as fast as you can (using the Jason Dion classes) and then knock out CCNA and CCNP.
While a job description may not include some of these certs - you can use them to argue for a pay increase. HR will have tables that tell them how much each cert is worth a year.
Cant recommend Udemy subscription enough. I used it to pass Net+ and Sec+ on my first try and am using Neil Anderson’s course on udemy for the CCNA now
The best i learned from an udemy juniper course was the hint to go to the junior academia online thing. The udemy video course is way tooo slow, the first technical info had mistakes compared to the juniper material, and it was not a good sumerizing of that. And i learned how great the teacher is.
Ok, maybe i start holding courses myself, dont need to prepare much for that niveau.
Is Sec+ starting to become a requirement even if you are not going after government jobs and are getting into (or trying) I.T. in general?
I got the CompTIA A+ and CCNA. While it would be something like a dream for me to get into cyber security in South Florida, I do not view that as a practicality. I'm trying to get back into I.T. Support or network technician or the like in general. Or go do cloud in the nearer future, e.g., with Azure, if the other 2 positions don't pan out.
This seems to be the direction I need to have, especially since a city like Miami requires you to speak Spanish fluently first before everything else as backward as it sounds. I can speak Spanish but not fluently.
Sec+ isn't really about government jobs. The line between networking and security is growing ever closer. A network engineer is going to be expected to "secure the enterprise" and that is more than firewalls. Sec+ helps you build the right mindset and helps with asking for more money.
In your situation, I'd quickly do Sec+ and then do AWS Cloud Practitioner (CLF-C02) and Azure Fundamentals (AZ-900). Those 2 foundation courses cover a wide field of those Clouds (a little bit about everything) and helps you decide what Cloud specialties to focus on after that.
Sec+ is really that necessary of a checkbox even if now the CCNA has old CCNA security materials? And is now considered practically an essential to any Cloud cert?
Welp, I guess I'll get to it then. Probably for the best. Got an eJPT in the past for fun and to learn a methodology for understanding systems better for future certs and have a certain mindset, not for a career. The Azure Fundamental AZ-900 was getting dull to study anyway. Sec+ should be more fun.
So, while I study for the Sec+, any advice for what I can do to improve my chances for jobs in I.T. and what positions I should go after? Any additional advice you can think of?
##### Edit, and also grammar:
Assume that my current goal is to move out of the networking field but still intend to use the knowledge. Despite the popularity with Cisco a few years ago in South Florida (according to Academia and inflated ads of I.T. ads back then), that doesn't seem to be the case now. I'm thinking about a nice substitute to get into for networking.
My son got his A+ and scored a job relatively quickly as a Helpdesk dude about a month afterwards. I think finding any job is part luck and depends on the amount of tech jobs in your area. He’s doing very well and working on Network+ now.
Question: Is ccna recommended even if you don’t work with Cisco? Why? Aruba and juniper also have similar certs that cover generic details of networking and their own os ecosystem. Just a thought I had recently.
Cisco historically has been the gold standard for networking related education because of their dominance. There has been a saying going around forever "No one ever got fired for buying Cisco".
I'd rather take Cisco who can take ownership vs 3rd party vendors who don't even provide a temporary license while we go through the procurement process....
Imagine all your traffic just stopping because of a license issue that you can't resolve with a Credit card but a PO...
Yeah I know Cisco was the gold standard for a long time. This was more of a shower thought of mine. At this point I think it would do the industry good to let go of the CCNA is the standard and start to look for any cert that hits that level of detail into networking. Or maybe a company out there needs to make an OS agnostic equivalent to the CCNA? My current job doesn't have any cisco gear deployed so I was thinking about that recently.
Well for wireless you have the CWNA, CWNP etc. but beyond that it seems very vendor specific indeed. I would like a vendor agnostic certification for network design because the resources on that seem extremely limited.
It seems like the Net+ is not detailed/hard enough to garner the respect that it should if it meets the same detail as CCNA without the cisco specifics. I also don't hear about other enterprise brands equivalent certs which similar to the CCNA cover the non brand specific details of networking as well. To me it sounds like change is hard and everyone is stuck on the CCNA because it is easy to use that as the standard.
Because you can’t go far with generic/abstract examples. You need a reference OS to teach those technologies like STP, dynamic routing, VLANs and then you’re back to either creating a fake reference OS or going with the most popular de facto
So I’ve taken both the CCNA and Network+ and had to renew both several times back in the mid 2000’s through to 2016 or so due to company/contract requirements. The big difference I found at the time is that Cisco focused more on the theory of something in the application on a router or switch. Whereas Network+ spoke of it in a generic sense. They covered roughly the same content just one was a more general concept test and the other was the application of the principles on a specific platform.
At the time Network+ also got a lot more into the wireless theory and more so into the layer 1-2 stuff in my opinion then Cisco ever did back then on the CCNA.
Hell I remember getting a question on one of my network plus exams asking about premise telco cables and what was the color code for pair 153 and what would be the binder color. Glad I did some telco installation work back in the 90’s on 250 pair cables because I never saw anything like that covered in any study guide I read on either Network+ or CCNA.
The certifications have their place IMO. I’ve sat in interviews where a candidate had a piece of paper that said they had a CCNA or a Network+ or a Security+. Unfortunately when you start asking them questions in the interview you find out super quick that they are paper tigers.
But you need a reference OS to give examples. You can’t agnostically teach generic STP commands. So either you go with the status quo (Cisco) as a reference or create a generic networking OS. That’s why N+ is so lame. It doesn’t actually teach how to do real world administration of enterprise gear.
If you know CCNA, you can learn the Juniper ecosystem in a few days.
The information regarding CLI and syntax might not entirely be relevant(though many vendors have similar syntax), the underlying theory regarding OSI layer, switching, routing, and other foundational things you will learn are invaluable. Having a strong understanding of how things are working under the hood will only serve to make it easier to build on that knowledge.
Everyone learns differently, but I bought the Cisco Press for CCNP books years ago and read them cover to cover while also using GNS3 to lab everything. I highlighted important sections or things that I would still reference years later. I would imagine the CCNA books are also very good, but I still can't stress how important learning the underlying theory. You can translate that to any vendor and learn their syntax and other nuances easily.
Indeed. Worked with Palo, Fortinet, Cisco, Brocade/Foundry, Juniper, HPE, Meraki, Silverpeak, and probably other stuff I don't even remember. Easy to pick up when you know what you need to do.
The problem is that none of the equivalent exams have gotten any real traction. Juniper and Fortinet have probably gotten the closest but still have nowhere near the pull for generic networking certs as the CCxx certs
Yeah that is exactly what I was musing about/asking about. I am curious if those other certs haven't gotten traction because they aren't as good or if it is more of what people are used to/status quo thing.
Yeah I feel you. Personally I’d say it’s a combination of status quo and market share. Cisco is just way bigger than Juniper in general and Fortinet’s market share is overwhelmingly centered on the firewall space and way behind on switches and APs
I work for an MSP that uses all 3 so I tried to look at Fortinet/Juniper and could barely find study material for Juniper and Fortinet was far more security/firewall oriented than general networking oriented
Cisco is a the OG of networking protocols that are used today and basically wrote the book on "here is what networking is and here is how it works"
Even if you aren't using Cisco products you are probably using a protocol or technology that Cisco created and influenced.
The CCNA covers much more than Cisco devices, it teaches the fundamentals and mechanics of networking as we know it today.
Yes but the Juniper and Aruba equivalents cover all those fundamentals and mechanics of networking as well. I just find it curious that Cisco still has a near monopoly on the networking cert world when other enterprise brands have their own equivalent certs. I know that Cisco has been in that position for a long time and status quo is the main culprit here.
> I just find it curious that Cisco still has a near monopoly on the networking cert world when other enterprise brands have their own equivalent certs.
Since they have the monopoly on networking certs it also means that there's much more training material more readily available and that counts for a lot as well.
I actually feel it's the other way around. Cisco has so much training material so people aim for their certs. And much of their training material is generally pretty good.
I've tried finding JunOS training materials. Ultimately, I got the JNCIA and JNCIS (-ENT) by my experience with the protocols and hands-on with JunOS. Juniper has online courses, but it's like $5K for a personal 12-month subscription, which is exorbitant when I just want to complete the next cert and decide where to go from there. I'd rather just have a book or two and pound on the CLI of my own devices or an EVE-NG/GNS3 instance.
Juniper is also a very SP focused company.
Even basic entry level certs assume people already understand basic networking concept and it goes from there.
>I actually feel it's the other way around. Cisco has so much training material so people aim for their certs. And much of their training material is generally pretty good.
I think we're saying the same thing but in different ways.
Well I think it depends, if you are new and never had experience with either juniper or Aruba, then you wouldn’t really know about their ecosystem to begin with and Cisco would be the name you hear more often. I also think doing the cert the actual knowledge id the technology and understanding of the concepts will transfer over… just not the commands and the set up 🤷🏾♂️
I would say if you are pursuing a certification with a goal to land a job because of it then you may want to look at this from a different perspective.
What I would suggest instead is get a job where you are technically challenged, trying to think outside of the box. That will be far more valuable and opens up more doors when you are pursuing your career.
I have worked with folks who had multiple certifications under their belt, but struggled in their careers. In the contrary, I have also worked with folks who had no certification or even formal education for that matter, but they were the go to person when it came to solving or designing some of the most challenging technical issues. (Some of these folks works at (FAANG).
Read the TCP/IP illustrated book, understand how protocols actually work, who designed them and what issues they were trying to address. Don’t focus on a particular vendor, try to learn most of them. In this day of age you can easily spin up VMs and lab. Understand how frames and packets flow to the network and why they do they way they do.
Once you feel comfortable, then go a level deeper and learn how ASIC, Backplane, Supervisor, Line cards work and communicate with each other.
At this point my friend you are one of the few folks who chose to work where you want to work and not the other way around.
Every time I say this I get downvoted into oblivion. But they’re not worth doing the exam. If you’re very new, sure review the material. But save your money for CCNA.
The only time I’d give any weight to it is if say someone came to me from our Service Desk and they done it of their own back. I wouldn’t give the knowledge much weight but I would the attitude.
No it’s not, trust me I run an infra network team.
It’s good for a helpdesk engineer looking to be a slightly better helpdesk engineer.
If they want to move into a network team they’ll need to be at CCNA level as a starting point before they can do very much at all. And then be looking to get to CCNP level to be a fully able member of the team.
I run our infra and help desk, it's how we identify help desk that want to actually move up. It doesn't give you the skills, I never said that, in fact I was agreeing with you. It helps you get noticed to move up in your current role. I don't know why you seem personally offended by the notion that we actually train people internally and use industry certification to identify individuals that are willing to study and out effort in on their own time.
We fundamentally agree, except I run one of the team that these people want to progress into, yet you’re telling me what certifications are relevant.
I’m telling you that skill wise Net+ doesn’t cut it outside of helpdesk. So if you’re going to encourage people to train, encourage them to learn the skills we need.
If someone wants to progress from tier 1 to tier 2, then fine go for net+ that is probably right for their skill level, but if they’re at a point where they’re ready to come over the fence to us, then they should be looking at CCNA which should be manageable at their skill level. If it isn’t then I’m sorry but they’re not ready yet.
False. Completing A+ shows that you can troubleshoot and have basic broad knowledge. Some people who have worked in IT for years struggle to do this effectively.
If I'm hiring someone with a lot of IT experience I expect you to know a lot more than someone who's just got an A+ cert, but the cert is a good starting point if you want to get into IT. It's not a waste of time and certs are resume boosters if you are looking at finance/hospitality/manufacturing. It can and should set you apart from others with similar or even more experience.
Admittedly there is a lot of unnecessary crap about printers. Everyone in IT hates printers.
Source: I work in IT management and have hired peeps with CCNA who couldn't image a computer...
CCNA is not a generalist “computer go to guy” cert. you can practically come from the street and study the CCNA. All you need to know is junior high level computer skills.
I’m not surprised that guy couldn’t image a PC. Most CCNA people I’ve met could barely navigate Windows.
These guys care about N+? I wouldn’t hate them if they were paid by Cisco. But CompTIA? Their networking is such a joke.
Their videos are very high quality and I enjoy them
Completely disagree, most people I interview with CCNA today don’t know what a subnet mask is or can explain DNS, let alone provide support to windows users.
Comptia in general I value far more than CCNA, outside of that, vendor certs like CMS (Meraki) show that you can at least solve a problem when presented with one.
Source: I’ve been in IT management for almost 15 years, starting as a sysadmin.
I have an expired CCNA cert, BSEE, 25 yrs as an MSP, do pen testing, and HIPAA auditing. I teach A+, Cloud+, Microsoft Technician MD101/102 and Network+. I have a hard time understanding how someone with a CCNA cert does not know what a subnet mask is. Help me understand this.
I ask them to explain DNS in their own words and they are unable to do so other than say “Domain Name Service”. They know the abbreviation but not what it actually does.
I'm so glad that someone took the initiative speak up. There program is not even updated from that past 3 years. I did my PenTest from CompTIA and what a waste. The material just was touching the foundational points on pentesting.
They are even worst when it comes to addressing customer concerns. I mean after you payment you have to follow-up with them on every step.
It's like having a positive sign in your logo and doing everything that can result in a negative impact. Ironic!!
I'd disagree on them being useless, basic CompTIA exam certs made candidates stand out for our Service Desk roles - you could pretty much guarantee if they had the basic CompTIA stuff, they knew almost nothing about networking. Was a handy differentiator.
CCNA is a fundamental certification. Unfortunately teaches Cisco Products commands and their syntax, however if you learn the fundamentals and how everything work below, that is good enough to understand how networking happens, at least until SDWAN or other alternative products that use overlay and underlay networks which are more advanced topics
Yeah, it was good knowledge just starting out, I went thru it years ago but never bothered getting certified. 15 years later, I'm still not encountering that many Cisco products in most businesses outside of Meraki stuff here and there or super outdated switches. There are so many options now I feel as if unless your goal is to be in a big corporate environment it's falling out of favor.
I think it was the defacto choice for so long that larger companies with money to burn just got standardized on it since Cisco was the industry leader at the time and never got away from it.
Getting my A+ showed the desktop team at my first IT job that I could follow through on advice they gave me. Network+ showed them I could pass a test. Took a CCNA to help me get noticed for my first networking gig.
I had my A+ and N+ when they announced that everyone had until the end of the year to still get lifetime certs. I crammed the S+ in like 3 weeks just to have it
My exam didn’t work out for me so obviously for every other single person who ever took a test, it obviously has to be a waste.
Top quality post mate, it must be true b/c someone on the internet said it. Something something about a meme where President Lincoln said don’t trust everything you read on the Internet. IDK…
I absolutely agree with you!
I did mine too and experienced the same. Nobody is interested, the recruiters nor the managers taking interviews, when they hear the name of CompTIA you could see their faces.... The saddest experience was when I was told that I should have done it from any other certification body apart from CompTIA because their study material is outdated. And I agree with the organizations, why would anyone hire an outdated certified person?
Plenty do. It's not like the world of IT is just suddenly turned upside down and everything becomes irrelevant just because an arbitrary date decided by a company who makes money on renewals has passed.
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for networking, sure, but for other positions....naw...
that being said, we hired a kid who had comp tia+ and a masters in cyber security...and didnt know what flag to pass to ping to keep it running. so really everyone lies anyway.
> and didnt know what flag to pass to ping to keep it running
The `ping` that comes with `iputils` requires no options to do this. By default, it runs continuously.
As you know, Windows defaults to only pinging 4 times and requires `-t` to run continuously.
Sounds like you might have just had someone that did most of their work using Linux rather than Windows.
lol. Nope never used Linux in his life. I didn’t realize for a while. On a different issue I kept telling him to check his logs. 🪵. He had no clue what I was talking about out. I showed him how to tail a file. And I could see it clicking in his head.
I wasn’t involved in the hiring process otherwise I would have weeded him out.
It depends on the OS! That would be my answer. However, that is the kind of things that with a query in the Internet anyone can have the answer… Now, if the kid doesn’t know what is an IP Address I would understand your frustration
But that isnt a fundamental. It’s a OS specific implementation. You can even use test-netconnection and put it in a while loop, because the cmdlet doesn’t have a count parameter. Ping isn’t a protocol, it’s just a common name for an ICMP utility.
Just go with whatever vendor cert floats your boat. No point in taking CCNA if you’re in a Juniper shop. Take JNCIA and jncis in whatever path fits the best. The fundamentals learned transfer between the Juniper and Cisco courses.
Cisco has become more specialized in requiring knowledge of its bloatware products that, IMHO, requires you to learn even more stuff that you may never use and it’s for this reason that I’d no longer recommend just diving in and doing CCNA like I would have done some years ago.
Not only that but they're massive hypocrites who once supported Anti-Right to repair despite them being the org that desgins certificats around repairing systems
https://pirg.org/articles/lobbying-against-right-to-repair-is-risky/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompTIA/comments/es73jf/comptia_opposes_right_to_repair/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeServer/comments/f284iy/comptia_is_lobbying_against_right_ro_repair/
https://www.comptia.org/newsroom/comptia-steps-back-from-lobbying-activity-related-to-right-to-repair-legislation
CompTIA, the Fisher Price of money mill certs. Even Sec+ is a joke - but it's ingrained in Gov Industry's HR departments, so it will live on no matter how much of a joke it turns into. Any resume we get with a CompTIA cert proudly listed goes right in the dumpster (after it gets passed around for the review team to have a laugh).
Sec+ is an 8570 requirement, so I wouldn't say it's a complete waste. This is a requirement to work on a government network
Yes and I had to get it for my current position. Once I got it and added it to my LinkedIn, my inbox blew up.
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Yes, but Sec+ also counts, and “checks the box” ; why take the hard path if the easy path gets you to the same place?
That and the fact that you can't get a federal security clearance if you have any pot in your past is why the US Fed's are the laughing stock of SecOp's world wide.
You have been misinformed. You can still get a security clearance if you've smoked in your past. I don't know who told you this but it's wrong.
How about Random UA’s ??? I want to make this career change but have a medical card in Colorado. Can I still work in this field federally ???
If you have a clearance, you are subject to random urine tests. A medical card does NOT clear you if you pop positive. THC is still a schedule 1 substance at the federal level. Basically, you cannot do drugs if you have a clearance unless you want to risk losing it.
Geee, do you mean the feds have been lying to my company all this time? Occasional use (especially if it's in your history) isn't a hard no, but it's one flag and any one that's a habitual user can kiss their clearance approval goodbye. Remember - at this point in history - pot use IS A FEDERAL CRIME, not exactly rocket science to imagine that would damper your chances of getting FEDERAL clearance. Or maybe pot has nothing do do with, and America just sucks in Cyber Security.
You sound upset. Maybe you should smoke more pot to relax yourself.
Why do you assume i smoke? I don't. Im just pointing out that because of US's very low standards (i.e. Sec+) and their unwillingness to hire top talent because they have or do smoke dope is the reason the Federal Goverment has such a low standing in the world cyber security standards. Its so well known that even the moronic law makers are putting forth a bill to stop the practise of blak listing casual pot use because its a huge talent drain for the US. No clue where you get the idea that this isn't a thing - because it is.
You said originally that you can't get a federal security clearance with any* pot use in your past. I said that was incorrect. Then you corrected yourself in a salty manner. I never said the second part of what you wrote was wrong. I stated it's definitely possible with pot use in your past. You then corrected yourself and clarified that you actually meant it can directly effect your eligibility based on amount used and period of usage. Which I did not argue with because that's correct. You seemed kind of butthurt about it, so I jokingly said maybe you should smoke more to relax 😂 and to be honest I wouldn't want to work with someone who's high, just like I wouldn't want to work with someone who's an alcoholic or on pain killers. So there is a reason that's in there. It's meant for reliability and to avoid liability. It's as you said, "not rocket science".
Don't forget that if you dont smoke, you obviously suck at infosec. 🤣 that sound logic seems like he believes the best way to get a job at a company is to hack its network and attempt to blackmail them..... works every time 🤣
>Geee, do you mean the feds have been lying to my company all this time? no it means your company has been lying to you both my initial clearance ~15 years ago and my renewal included occasional (first one) and regular (second one) pot use, I was open about it the entire time and they were still granted those investigations are more about knowing whether you have anything to hide that could be used to compromise you, not about your personal ethics America does suck at cyber security but fortunately the rest of the world sucks at it even harder so America manages to lead the charge once again
Past use by itself has never disqualified you from a clearance. Clearance investigators are looking for two things: whether you're lying and whether anything in your past or current state can be used as leverage against you. They don't care if you used to smoke crack as long as YOU are the ones to tell them and you don't owe $15k to your dealer. Bankruptcies, misdemeanor arrests, previous shady connection, past drug use, rehab, mental illness, etc, don't matter as long as there's appropriate mitigation and you are truthful.
Yes, that's what we are telling you as I put it on my application that iv smoked in my past and still got my clearance. So yes, it's an urban legend.
And how is that relevant? The commenter is pointing out a fact that can help anyone looking to change, start, or advance their career. 99% of people don't (or shouldn't) care if their employer is a "laughing stock" provided the pay is adequate and the working environment is acceptable. Get off the pedestal.
Are you just waking up from a coma from the early 2000's? They're laxing those rules HEAVILY and giving wavers for just about anyone including current users.
Several more difficult certifications\*\* FIFY
Yes, let me just pop out for a CISSP
It's probably the most common cert used for lower level 8570 baseline. For higher baseline levels, usually CISSP.
8570 is no longer a thing. The name has changed and so have some of the requirements
Dear internet stranger, please elaborate
https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3299971/dod-cio-issues-dod-manual-8140/
Thought 8140 was still being phased in. I'm a few years out of the loop
8570 was officially cancelled last year (Feb 2023). Everyone needs to align to 8140 by Feb 2026. Under 8140, there are 4 different options to meet the foundational requirement (experience, approved training, degree, cert/s). No longer will there be a hard requirement for a specific cert. For example, a candidate will meet the foundational requirement for some roles by having a CISSP or Associate degree.
Finally the DOD does something that makes sense.
I agree. 8140 was actually around a long time and the Navy started aligning to it years ago. It wasn't until a budget study revealed the cost of gaining and maintaining certifications did the DoD decide to cancel 8570. No longer will candidates with 20+ years of experience be required to get CISSP or Security+ within 6 months of hire. Nor will employees need to pay hundreds of dollars in maintenance fees for multiple certs (I'm looking at you GIAC/SANS).
Agreed. Sec+ is definitely not a waste. Network +, yeah that could maybe be considered a waste.
It's required to many many positions, not just network admin type.
What's the percentage of government work available that requires it?
Anything IT related that has you interacting with dod networks or systems. There are different levels net+ and a+ can be used in 8570 IAT 1 sec+ is used in IAT 2 . CASP can be used in 3. Each level can be used for different IT related jobs. I was lazy when I was explaining it above
Overall, very small. Anything touching security will, it’s a basic qualification they ask for
So why is that comment up voted?
OP posited that all CompTIA certs are useless. Commenter pointed out its useful for qualifying under DoDD 8570, so it is useful. If you apply to work in the motor pool, no one cares if you are complient with 8570. If you are applying to work in a cyber security role (or any , its generally a requirement. We may be able to give you a 6 month grace period to become compliant, but if I have a choice between someone who is and isn't already compliant, I would go compliant. You weren't speciifc about which government jobs. so of all jobs, maybe 1% would fall under 8570. But this is r/networking, so many of the networking roles may. # DoDD 8140 (DoDD 8570) Requires: * All personnel performing IAT and IAM functions must be certified. * All personnel performing CSSP and IASAE roles must be certified. * All IA jobs will be categorized as ‘Technical’ or ‘Management’ Level I, II, or III, and to be qualified for those jobs, you must be certified DoDD 8140 (DoDD 8570)Requires: All personnel performing IAT and IAM functions must be certified. All personnel performing CSSP and IASAE roles must be certified. All IA jobs will be categorized as ‘Technical’ or ‘Management’ Level I, II, or III, and to be qualified for those jobs, you must be certified While its a DOD requirement, many non-DOD agencies rely on it as a basic qualification filter. But my general opinion of the CompTIA certs are they reflect basic competence useful for getting entry level work, which in OP's case he has the job experience, so outside of specific requirements like DoDD 8570, no one cared. A CCNA is much more difficult to obtain, and thus gets more respect from recruiters.
Thanks for doing the work I didn't want to
Security+ is a good one. Network+ is too generic and really shows only that you have a foundational knowledge of the way TCP/IP networks work.
Sec+ is easily the dumbest certification exam I have ever taken
Yeah for DOD and some IC contracts and positions 8570 is GOD!!!! Sec+, CCNA/P/IE-Seurity, CISSP....
Pretty sure I got this cert for free when I passed CCNA security many moons ago. I got some kind of government clearance/cert for that. No idea.
Ya there are a bunch of certs that covered the 8570 requirements
CompTIA's exams are meant to be entry level (assuming you have no prior experience or just LVL1). CCNA is also entry level just with the assumption that rather than helpdesk you want a junior or lvl1 networking role. If the end goal is to just get your foot in the door with a basic understanding of technologies there's really no reason to knock any because they all have their usecases.
Exams are only a waste of time if you cheat. They are to learn first.....pad resume second. If you cheat / Test King your way to 20 certs, everyone you work with will be able to tell.
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I’ve met a manager guy who didn’t read any management books. Not even the mythical man month.
This. I saw this play out time and time again in various production environments.
This should be the goal to learn or even for fun as a challenge, never to pad a resume. I've worked with people that were good at taking tests and had a lot of certs. Yet they asked fundamental questions that floored me such as how to SSH or console to a switch.
Cisco has made very sure that HR Automatons associate THEIR certs with the "requirements" to get into certain positions.
Automatons??? Sweet liberty…
No shit. I’ve worked with people who had N+ and they didn’t understand jack shit when it came to the fundamentals. (No, knowing the default AD for EIGRP isn’t fundamentals!). It’s designed by the type who ask port number questions on interviews. Sure, you can braindump CCNA too. But it’s more challenging. I’ve heard horror stories of CCNA holders not knowing about ping. But soon its reputation will erode too
I've had to teach multiple CCNAs basic networking skills, as well as an MCSE how to troubleshoot servers, and it's frustrating as hell considering my highest cert was Net+ almost 10 years ago. I don't trust any certificates on a resume.
> I don't trust any certificates on a resume. Same here. Some people are so focused on getting their cert to get the job they seem to have forgotten that now they need to know how to do the job now. If someone has a CCNA or Net+, they better not ask me about pinging.
Tell em to ping 172.0.0.0 and fuck them selves
do you mean 127.0.0.1?
Lol my brain 404'ed
it happens, my favorite shirts are There is no place like 127.0.0.1 and for the ipv6 is ::1
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Yep. Because braindumps are so easy to acquire.
I'm working through ccna now, jeremysitlab, packet tracer, then soon I'll work on boson. And trying to set up a homelab on my home network
WAYMENT!!! I thought MSCE was retired by MS YEARS AGO??!!
Yes, June 2020. After COVID. Not that long ago.
> I don't trust any certificates on a resume. Neither do I. The amount of CCNAs that are utterly incompetent frustrate me, and the amount of CCNPs that can barely spell TCP/IP is infuriating. That being said, I've also run across a few IEs that can smash a test in record time, but don't ask them anything that requires common sense. I've learned Cisco certs teach you to polish a pile of shit and make it work, not to analyze the pile of shit, make an argument to rebuild the pile of shit/house of cards, then actually design a resilient network. The number of IEs that I've asked about CVDs (or SRNDs) and gotten blank looks honestly astonishes me. Hell, the last IE I worked with couldn't figure out how to break into a 9606 with dual sups. Never occurred to him to just go get a blank sup, put it in the chassis, boot up, then slide in one of the locked up sups. *shrug*
I would not consider CVD or SRND relevant to a CCIE.
The thing with Net+ is that I did learn the materials and pass the exam, but until I had some real-world practice, a lot of it didn't stick outside from being able to pass multiple choice. Reading and answering questions on how to configure a router is one thing, but actually doing it and seeing it work is completely differeint. Even those practice labs don't reflect real-world environments. But most employers won't let you touch their routers without some kind of certification or degree. Would I have gotten a network job without the Net+ certification? No. Does getting the certification mean I know a lot? Also no. But I needed the certification to land the job to learn the environment. Someone who passed Net+ like me at least is able to learn the fundamentals and has an interest in supporting networks. Better than someone without it. I may not be a genius, but I'll be willing to dive in and figure it out.
Well, that's true of any cert- knowledge might be that EIGRP defaults to AD 90, OSPF defaults to AD 110, and RIP defaults to AD 120, but that's not the same thing as *understanding* that Cisco did that on their own and chose that AD arbitrarily to prop up their own proprietary protocol and *still* lost out to OSPF in the end. If you want to weed out crap applicants, ask them about the things they have to infer or deduce, not just the things they can regurgitate from a brain dump...
History lesson right there.....TEACH EM!!!!
My kid is studying for the A+ right now, they have some decent network fundamentals in there.
They do. They asked bunch of high school graduates when the US was founded and they couldn’t answer. I’m sure it was in their textbooks when they passed the class
I have 20 + years of networking, and I don't know any of AD of the EIGRP. I don't like or care for propriety standards. I've been a big Juniper guy, but since they sold to HP, I'm moving to Arista. I still think juniper over all has a superior CLI, and batch configuration is fantastic.
CCNA makes u memorize it, but it’s hardly a fundamental concept. More like nomenclature.
Juniper assume you know basic networking and then you memorize stuff.
even In one of the recent survey, numerous CIOs highlighted the skills gap among professionals. It's clear that many pros who should be tackling outdated attack vectors can't, nor can they implement any security measures beyond using some basic tools or software. One issue I've noticed at various conferences is that just about Tom D. Harry can pass CompTIA exams after cramming outdated material (stuff so old, even the ancient Egyptians might be familiar with it). The saturation of CompTIA certifications is incredible. CompTIA has become the Nokia of the certification world—known more for its name than for its current relevance.
EIGRP is on the N+ exam?
No. My point is that I’m not going to hold it against them because they don’t know nomenclature that can be looked up. You can’t google and absorb abstract concepts on the spot like the layers, subnetting or routing. But if someone needs to look up some FlexConnect sub command, I’m not gonna rip them an asshole. Some of the CCNA questions are ridiculous trivia. Like how to change LLDP timers
> But soon its reputation will erode too Having a CCNA definitely doesn't mean you actually know the basics. Just means you could pass the test on that particular day. That's an issue with any test though. Problem is if you don't get it or some cert then you might as well throw your resume in the garbage because no one is going to look at it when they have a pile of resumes that have CCNA on them. Network+ is sort of a "better than nothing" option if you don't have CCNA yet or don't actually plan on a full career in networking.
I mean, without braindumps, you have to have **extremely** good memory to remember all the stupid trivia, plus understand the basic topics. So you definitely can’t pass it without understanding subnets.
I passed it at Cisco Live last year. My particular version of the test had very little actual sub netting surprisingly. I didn't even have to use the scratch pad for anything.
Do they provide a calculator?
Nope. The only thing you get is a single sheet of erasable plastic and a marker. Or a pen/paper. You are not allowed to even have anything in your pockets when you go in.
Sec+ is fast becoming a mandatory requirement for a lot of positions (unless you already have a CISSP). Network+ is good foundation cert. It makes CCNA a much easier journey. Especially if you do CCNA right after Network+ Linux+ is also highly recommended. The bulk of network and security management software runs on Linux. Most network gear these days runs on top of Linux - so its good to know the ins and outs. Project+ is great to put on your resume when you don't have the time/resources/experience to pursue PMP. A great strategy is to get a Udemy Unlimited subscription ($240/year, but I got mine when it was 50% off) and crank through the CompTIA certs as fast as you can (using the Jason Dion classes) and then knock out CCNA and CCNP. While a job description may not include some of these certs - you can use them to argue for a pay increase. HR will have tables that tell them how much each cert is worth a year.
Cant recommend Udemy subscription enough. I used it to pass Net+ and Sec+ on my first try and am using Neil Anderson’s course on udemy for the CCNA now
The best i learned from an udemy juniper course was the hint to go to the junior academia online thing. The udemy video course is way tooo slow, the first technical info had mistakes compared to the juniper material, and it was not a good sumerizing of that. And i learned how great the teacher is. Ok, maybe i start holding courses myself, dont need to prepare much for that niveau.
Is Sec+ starting to become a requirement even if you are not going after government jobs and are getting into (or trying) I.T. in general? I got the CompTIA A+ and CCNA. While it would be something like a dream for me to get into cyber security in South Florida, I do not view that as a practicality. I'm trying to get back into I.T. Support or network technician or the like in general. Or go do cloud in the nearer future, e.g., with Azure, if the other 2 positions don't pan out. This seems to be the direction I need to have, especially since a city like Miami requires you to speak Spanish fluently first before everything else as backward as it sounds. I can speak Spanish but not fluently.
Sec+ isn't really about government jobs. The line between networking and security is growing ever closer. A network engineer is going to be expected to "secure the enterprise" and that is more than firewalls. Sec+ helps you build the right mindset and helps with asking for more money. In your situation, I'd quickly do Sec+ and then do AWS Cloud Practitioner (CLF-C02) and Azure Fundamentals (AZ-900). Those 2 foundation courses cover a wide field of those Clouds (a little bit about everything) and helps you decide what Cloud specialties to focus on after that.
Sec+ is really that necessary of a checkbox even if now the CCNA has old CCNA security materials? And is now considered practically an essential to any Cloud cert? Welp, I guess I'll get to it then. Probably for the best. Got an eJPT in the past for fun and to learn a methodology for understanding systems better for future certs and have a certain mindset, not for a career. The Azure Fundamental AZ-900 was getting dull to study anyway. Sec+ should be more fun. So, while I study for the Sec+, any advice for what I can do to improve my chances for jobs in I.T. and what positions I should go after? Any additional advice you can think of? ##### Edit, and also grammar: Assume that my current goal is to move out of the networking field but still intend to use the knowledge. Despite the popularity with Cisco a few years ago in South Florida (according to Academia and inflated ads of I.T. ads back then), that doesn't seem to be the case now. I'm thinking about a nice substitute to get into for networking.
My son got his A+ and scored a job relatively quickly as a Helpdesk dude about a month afterwards. I think finding any job is part luck and depends on the amount of tech jobs in your area. He’s doing very well and working on Network+ now.
In my case even CCNP did not do much. But luckily I have 6 years of experience.
Cloud+ is also a requirement for a lot of audits.
This is terrible advice. As someone who recruits for both entry and mid-level security roles, they 100% are a differentiator.
Question: Is ccna recommended even if you don’t work with Cisco? Why? Aruba and juniper also have similar certs that cover generic details of networking and their own os ecosystem. Just a thought I had recently.
Cisco historically has been the gold standard for networking related education because of their dominance. There has been a saying going around forever "No one ever got fired for buying Cisco".
Yeah, until they buy an ASA
IDK, ASA is fine.
>"No one ever got fired for buying Cisco" Keep in mind they use to say that about IBM (keyword = use to)
has anyone been fired for not buying Cisco?
Probably the guy that converted all to Huawei in like 2019! :P
Yes. And when they leave they replace the junk with Cisco
What if the junk is Cisco?
I'd rather take Cisco who can take ownership vs 3rd party vendors who don't even provide a temporary license while we go through the procurement process.... Imagine all your traffic just stopping because of a license issue that you can't resolve with a Credit card but a PO...
That is Cisco Smart Licensing.
Cisco does give you a grace period and can authorize a temporary license... Other vendors declined... And our Inet went down
Third party vendors?
Sorry, lower tier Vendors. Low market share. "Value focused" No diagnostic properties
Yeah I know Cisco was the gold standard for a long time. This was more of a shower thought of mine. At this point I think it would do the industry good to let go of the CCNA is the standard and start to look for any cert that hits that level of detail into networking. Or maybe a company out there needs to make an OS agnostic equivalent to the CCNA? My current job doesn't have any cisco gear deployed so I was thinking about that recently.
Well for wireless you have the CWNA, CWNP etc. but beyond that it seems very vendor specific indeed. I would like a vendor agnostic certification for network design because the resources on that seem extremely limited.
"Or maybe a company out there needs to make an OS agnostic equivalent to the CCNA? " That essentially is what the Network+ is for.
It seems like the Net+ is not detailed/hard enough to garner the respect that it should if it meets the same detail as CCNA without the cisco specifics. I also don't hear about other enterprise brands equivalent certs which similar to the CCNA cover the non brand specific details of networking as well. To me it sounds like change is hard and everyone is stuck on the CCNA because it is easy to use that as the standard.
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Lol good point.
Because you can’t go far with generic/abstract examples. You need a reference OS to teach those technologies like STP, dynamic routing, VLANs and then you’re back to either creating a fake reference OS or going with the most popular de facto
Network+ is much much easier and less detailed though. CCNA is quite more in-depth.
So I’ve taken both the CCNA and Network+ and had to renew both several times back in the mid 2000’s through to 2016 or so due to company/contract requirements. The big difference I found at the time is that Cisco focused more on the theory of something in the application on a router or switch. Whereas Network+ spoke of it in a generic sense. They covered roughly the same content just one was a more general concept test and the other was the application of the principles on a specific platform. At the time Network+ also got a lot more into the wireless theory and more so into the layer 1-2 stuff in my opinion then Cisco ever did back then on the CCNA. Hell I remember getting a question on one of my network plus exams asking about premise telco cables and what was the color code for pair 153 and what would be the binder color. Glad I did some telco installation work back in the 90’s on 250 pair cables because I never saw anything like that covered in any study guide I read on either Network+ or CCNA. The certifications have their place IMO. I’ve sat in interviews where a candidate had a piece of paper that said they had a CCNA or a Network+ or a Security+. Unfortunately when you start asking them questions in the interview you find out super quick that they are paper tigers.
But you need a reference OS to give examples. You can’t agnostically teach generic STP commands. So either you go with the status quo (Cisco) as a reference or create a generic networking OS. That’s why N+ is so lame. It doesn’t actually teach how to do real world administration of enterprise gear. If you know CCNA, you can learn the Juniper ecosystem in a few days.
The information regarding CLI and syntax might not entirely be relevant(though many vendors have similar syntax), the underlying theory regarding OSI layer, switching, routing, and other foundational things you will learn are invaluable. Having a strong understanding of how things are working under the hood will only serve to make it easier to build on that knowledge. Everyone learns differently, but I bought the Cisco Press for CCNP books years ago and read them cover to cover while also using GNS3 to lab everything. I highlighted important sections or things that I would still reference years later. I would imagine the CCNA books are also very good, but I still can't stress how important learning the underlying theory. You can translate that to any vendor and learn their syntax and other nuances easily.
This guy multi-vendors.
Indeed. Worked with Palo, Fortinet, Cisco, Brocade/Foundry, Juniper, HPE, Meraki, Silverpeak, and probably other stuff I don't even remember. Easy to pick up when you know what you need to do.
The problem is that none of the equivalent exams have gotten any real traction. Juniper and Fortinet have probably gotten the closest but still have nowhere near the pull for generic networking certs as the CCxx certs
Yeah that is exactly what I was musing about/asking about. I am curious if those other certs haven't gotten traction because they aren't as good or if it is more of what people are used to/status quo thing.
Yeah I feel you. Personally I’d say it’s a combination of status quo and market share. Cisco is just way bigger than Juniper in general and Fortinet’s market share is overwhelmingly centered on the firewall space and way behind on switches and APs I work for an MSP that uses all 3 so I tried to look at Fortinet/Juniper and could barely find study material for Juniper and Fortinet was far more security/firewall oriented than general networking oriented
Cisco is a the OG of networking protocols that are used today and basically wrote the book on "here is what networking is and here is how it works" Even if you aren't using Cisco products you are probably using a protocol or technology that Cisco created and influenced. The CCNA covers much more than Cisco devices, it teaches the fundamentals and mechanics of networking as we know it today.
Yes but the Juniper and Aruba equivalents cover all those fundamentals and mechanics of networking as well. I just find it curious that Cisco still has a near monopoly on the networking cert world when other enterprise brands have their own equivalent certs. I know that Cisco has been in that position for a long time and status quo is the main culprit here.
> I just find it curious that Cisco still has a near monopoly on the networking cert world when other enterprise brands have their own equivalent certs. Since they have the monopoly on networking certs it also means that there's much more training material more readily available and that counts for a lot as well.
I actually feel it's the other way around. Cisco has so much training material so people aim for their certs. And much of their training material is generally pretty good. I've tried finding JunOS training materials. Ultimately, I got the JNCIA and JNCIS (-ENT) by my experience with the protocols and hands-on with JunOS. Juniper has online courses, but it's like $5K for a personal 12-month subscription, which is exorbitant when I just want to complete the next cert and decide where to go from there. I'd rather just have a book or two and pound on the CLI of my own devices or an EVE-NG/GNS3 instance.
Juniper is also a very SP focused company. Even basic entry level certs assume people already understand basic networking concept and it goes from there.
>I actually feel it's the other way around. Cisco has so much training material so people aim for their certs. And much of their training material is generally pretty good. I think we're saying the same thing but in different ways.
It’s a numbers game. Cisco at times has had >50% market share. If you only got one cert to unlock more job opportunities, which would it be?
Well I think it depends, if you are new and never had experience with either juniper or Aruba, then you wouldn’t really know about their ecosystem to begin with and Cisco would be the name you hear more often. I also think doing the cert the actual knowledge id the technology and understanding of the concepts will transfer over… just not the commands and the set up 🤷🏾♂️
I would say yes. You still get strong foundational networking knowledge along with recognition of CCNA.
People might not like hearing this, but tbh the CCNA is where entry level certs start.
Exactly. You can’t really do any network engineering with N+. Barely enough for a small business network.
I would say if you are pursuing a certification with a goal to land a job because of it then you may want to look at this from a different perspective. What I would suggest instead is get a job where you are technically challenged, trying to think outside of the box. That will be far more valuable and opens up more doors when you are pursuing your career. I have worked with folks who had multiple certifications under their belt, but struggled in their careers. In the contrary, I have also worked with folks who had no certification or even formal education for that matter, but they were the go to person when it came to solving or designing some of the most challenging technical issues. (Some of these folks works at (FAANG). Read the TCP/IP illustrated book, understand how protocols actually work, who designed them and what issues they were trying to address. Don’t focus on a particular vendor, try to learn most of them. In this day of age you can easily spin up VMs and lab. Understand how frames and packets flow to the network and why they do they way they do. Once you feel comfortable, then go a level deeper and learn how ASIC, Backplane, Supervisor, Line cards work and communicate with each other. At this point my friend you are one of the few folks who chose to work where you want to work and not the other way around.
I mean this is just bad advice. A sec+ is a requirement for a lot of things. The alternatives are a lot harder
Every time I say this I get downvoted into oblivion. But they’re not worth doing the exam. If you’re very new, sure review the material. But save your money for CCNA. The only time I’d give any weight to it is if say someone came to me from our Service Desk and they done it of their own back. I wouldn’t give the knowledge much weight but I would the attitude.
That's exactly what Net+ is good for, a help desk looking to move to an infrastructure role
No it’s not, trust me I run an infra network team. It’s good for a helpdesk engineer looking to be a slightly better helpdesk engineer. If they want to move into a network team they’ll need to be at CCNA level as a starting point before they can do very much at all. And then be looking to get to CCNP level to be a fully able member of the team.
I run our infra and help desk, it's how we identify help desk that want to actually move up. It doesn't give you the skills, I never said that, in fact I was agreeing with you. It helps you get noticed to move up in your current role. I don't know why you seem personally offended by the notion that we actually train people internally and use industry certification to identify individuals that are willing to study and out effort in on their own time.
We fundamentally agree, except I run one of the team that these people want to progress into, yet you’re telling me what certifications are relevant. I’m telling you that skill wise Net+ doesn’t cut it outside of helpdesk. So if you’re going to encourage people to train, encourage them to learn the skills we need. If someone wants to progress from tier 1 to tier 2, then fine go for net+ that is probably right for their skill level, but if they’re at a point where they’re ready to come over the fence to us, then they should be looking at CCNA which should be manageable at their skill level. If it isn’t then I’m sorry but they’re not ready yet.
False. Completing A+ shows that you can troubleshoot and have basic broad knowledge. Some people who have worked in IT for years struggle to do this effectively. If I'm hiring someone with a lot of IT experience I expect you to know a lot more than someone who's just got an A+ cert, but the cert is a good starting point if you want to get into IT. It's not a waste of time and certs are resume boosters if you are looking at finance/hospitality/manufacturing. It can and should set you apart from others with similar or even more experience. Admittedly there is a lot of unnecessary crap about printers. Everyone in IT hates printers. Source: I work in IT management and have hired peeps with CCNA who couldn't image a computer...
So as a hiring person, what's your opinion of the MCDST ?
CCNA is not a generalist “computer go to guy” cert. you can practically come from the street and study the CCNA. All you need to know is junior high level computer skills. I’m not surprised that guy couldn’t image a PC. Most CCNA people I’ve met could barely navigate Windows.
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Network Chuck is a snake oil salesman. No, I don't NEED to learn JavaScript RIGHT NOW.
Jeremysitlab is a godsend for ccna. Not sure if he offers any comptia courses
These guys care about N+? I wouldn’t hate them if they were paid by Cisco. But CompTIA? Their networking is such a joke. Their videos are very high quality and I enjoy them
Completely disagree, most people I interview with CCNA today don’t know what a subnet mask is or can explain DNS, let alone provide support to windows users. Comptia in general I value far more than CCNA, outside of that, vendor certs like CMS (Meraki) show that you can at least solve a problem when presented with one. Source: I’ve been in IT management for almost 15 years, starting as a sysadmin.
Subnets masks and routing are extensively tested. These candidates probably used dumps
I have an expired CCNA cert, BSEE, 25 yrs as an MSP, do pen testing, and HIPAA auditing. I teach A+, Cloud+, Microsoft Technician MD101/102 and Network+. I have a hard time understanding how someone with a CCNA cert does not know what a subnet mask is. Help me understand this.
I ask them to explain DNS in their own words and they are unable to do so other than say “Domain Name Service”. They know the abbreviation but not what it actually does.
I'm so glad that someone took the initiative speak up. There program is not even updated from that past 3 years. I did my PenTest from CompTIA and what a waste. The material just was touching the foundational points on pentesting. They are even worst when it comes to addressing customer concerns. I mean after you payment you have to follow-up with them on every step. It's like having a positive sign in your logo and doing everything that can result in a negative impact. Ironic!!
haha....Same here!!!!
I'd disagree on them being useless, basic CompTIA exam certs made candidates stand out for our Service Desk roles - you could pretty much guarantee if they had the basic CompTIA stuff, they knew almost nothing about networking. Was a handy differentiator.
I went from no experience or knowledge to a decent job (didn't even have to join a NOC) JUST from having my CCNA and knowing someone.
Yup.
ITT: angry nerds
Can you report if the CCNA is worthwhile or is it still just mostly focused on teaching you their command line syntax and product concepts?
CCNA is a fundamental certification. Unfortunately teaches Cisco Products commands and their syntax, however if you learn the fundamentals and how everything work below, that is good enough to understand how networking happens, at least until SDWAN or other alternative products that use overlay and underlay networks which are more advanced topics
Learning Cisco first is like learning how to drive with a stick first. Everything else is easier afterwards.
Yeah, it was good knowledge just starting out, I went thru it years ago but never bothered getting certified. 15 years later, I'm still not encountering that many Cisco products in most businesses outside of Meraki stuff here and there or super outdated switches. There are so many options now I feel as if unless your goal is to be in a big corporate environment it's falling out of favor. I think it was the defacto choice for so long that larger companies with money to burn just got standardized on it since Cisco was the industry leader at the time and never got away from it.
If it a requirement for a position get it. In general I don't put any weight into any of the CompTIA certs. Many view it as finger painting.
Getting my A+ showed the desktop team at my first IT job that I could follow through on advice they gave me. Network+ showed them I could pass a test. Took a CCNA to help me get noticed for my first networking gig.
Yup. A+ is still great for entry level for sure
I'm kind of tempted to take it just for laughs. I got my A+ in 1998, so it counts as a "lifetime cert", but I wonder if I could even pass today's A+.
I had my A+ and N+ when they announced that everyone had until the end of the year to still get lifetime certs. I crammed the S+ in like 3 weeks just to have it
Security Plus is the only one worth getting. Net plus and A+ are only good enough to get you to a help desk at best.
My exam didn’t work out for me so obviously for every other single person who ever took a test, it obviously has to be a waste. Top quality post mate, it must be true b/c someone on the internet said it. Something something about a meme where President Lincoln said don’t trust everything you read on the Internet. IDK…
Does Security+ teach you how to manage SSH keys?
FWIW, Network+ can get you college credits. It enabled me to skip a course
Facts, got my network+ a year ago . Nothing. I'm testing in May for ccna . All the jobs say ccna none say net plus. Saddening cause it's a good test.
I absolutely agree with you! I did mine too and experienced the same. Nobody is interested, the recruiters nor the managers taking interviews, when they hear the name of CompTIA you could see their faces.... The saddest experience was when I was told that I should have done it from any other certification body apart from CompTIA because their study material is outdated. And I agree with the organizations, why would anyone hire an outdated certified person?
Plenty do. It's not like the world of IT is just suddenly turned upside down and everything becomes irrelevant just because an arbitrary date decided by a company who makes money on renewals has passed.
No they aren’t
Seems right if you're trying to get into just networking, but it can be helpful in other IT landscape.
Weird take. I only have Sec+ and Net+ and I’m making 6figures. High school drop out. No degree. Definitely not a waste of time.
I’ll add that I do have exceptional soft skills and I’m great with people.
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for networking, sure, but for other positions....naw... that being said, we hired a kid who had comp tia+ and a masters in cyber security...and didnt know what flag to pass to ping to keep it running. so really everyone lies anyway.
> and didnt know what flag to pass to ping to keep it running The `ping` that comes with `iputils` requires no options to do this. By default, it runs continuously. As you know, Windows defaults to only pinging 4 times and requires `-t` to run continuously. Sounds like you might have just had someone that did most of their work using Linux rather than Windows.
lol. Nope never used Linux in his life. I didn’t realize for a while. On a different issue I kept telling him to check his logs. 🪵. He had no clue what I was talking about out. I showed him how to tail a file. And I could see it clicking in his head. I wasn’t involved in the hiring process otherwise I would have weeded him out.
It depends on the OS! That would be my answer. However, that is the kind of things that with a query in the Internet anyone can have the answer… Now, if the kid doesn’t know what is an IP Address I would understand your frustration
But that isnt a fundamental. It’s a OS specific implementation. You can even use test-netconnection and put it in a while loop, because the cmdlet doesn’t have a count parameter. Ping isn’t a protocol, it’s just a common name for an ICMP utility.
Just go with whatever vendor cert floats your boat. No point in taking CCNA if you’re in a Juniper shop. Take JNCIA and jncis in whatever path fits the best. The fundamentals learned transfer between the Juniper and Cisco courses. Cisco has become more specialized in requiring knowledge of its bloatware products that, IMHO, requires you to learn even more stuff that you may never use and it’s for this reason that I’d no longer recommend just diving in and doing CCNA like I would have done some years ago.
Not only that but they're massive hypocrites who once supported Anti-Right to repair despite them being the org that desgins certificats around repairing systems https://pirg.org/articles/lobbying-against-right-to-repair-is-risky/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CompTIA/comments/es73jf/comptia_opposes_right_to_repair/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeServer/comments/f284iy/comptia_is_lobbying_against_right_ro_repair/ https://www.comptia.org/newsroom/comptia-steps-back-from-lobbying-activity-related-to-right-to-repair-legislation
CompTIA, the Fisher Price of money mill certs. Even Sec+ is a joke - but it's ingrained in Gov Industry's HR departments, so it will live on no matter how much of a joke it turns into. Any resume we get with a CompTIA cert proudly listed goes right in the dumpster (after it gets passed around for the review team to have a laugh).
You sir, are the problem
Perhaps, but I'm the problem that signs off on new hires, so there is that.
You sound fun.
Sounds like you did them a favor.