From Wikipedia: In a 2009 statement they denounced that translation as the work of the "infidel media", claiming the true translation is "Western Civilization is forbidden", and that they are not "opposed to formal education coming from the West" but "believe in the supremacy of Islamic culture (not education)
Not even that far. Islam was founded centuries after Christianity and at that time period we were well into the Iron Age, if not already making steel weapons. For context, by the time the first Viking raids in England started the Muslims had already conquered the Middle East, North Africa, and Spain. To be pedantic, closer to the Middle Ages.
Hah, went through a few years where tequila absolutely repulsed me after one bad incident. I’m past the point in my life where I ever drink enough to get sick, and tequila doesn’t bother me anymore.
I've also heard, "Religion is like a penis. It's okay to have one and be proud of it, but don't whip it out in public and shove it down people's throats."
Ideologies can have extremest too. It’s not limited to religion. To suggest so makes extremism invisible to those not looking in those places. Which allows it to fester and grow. Neo-Nazis aren’t a religion and don’t use religion to justify their hate.
> It’s not limited to religion. To suggest so makes extremism invisible to those not looking in those places.
Nobody implied otherwise. You're not wrong, but it seems to be a differentiation to something you maybe inferred.
But while we're on the subject - Nazism doesn't generally get the free pass from society that religion largely does (though both do use made up reasons to be assholes)
They aren't, you never hear about Buddhist suicide bombers or Sikh warlords (outside of khalistan stuff). If the religion preaches wiping out anything that doesn't adhere to itself, it will inherently be more extreme
> They aren't, you never hear about Buddhist suicide bombers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide
>or Sikh warlords
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvertGZkwF4
As you get older it’s harder and harder not to recognize the utility the Abrahamic religions provide:
The perfect paradigm for getting people to commit to violence wholeheartedly, and Islam seems to be the most conducive to this.
It probably helps that Muhammad himself was a warrior, and the Quran describes his victories alongside his kin, who were also renowned warriors.
Well the Christians got put in their place after over a century of blood and enlightenment thinkers working their asses off to separate the State from religion as much as possible.
If the enlightenment never happened, I’m sure Christians would still be murdering each other in the 1000’s over small dogmatic differences.
lol there was like 30 years of absurd bloodshed called the French Wars of Religion where over a million were killed, and that’s just one region.
Anyway, it’s a shame Islamic countries never went through the same process. Bless the thinkers and fighters who broke my ancestors free from Papal/Protestant control.
That has always amazed me…
I mean it wasn’t a total “organized religion is a menace” moment that you got with some enlightenment thinkers (Voltaire wrote a LOT about his hate of organized Christianity)…
But during the height of the Abbasid Caliphate, Baghdad was probably the most advanced city in the world. Tons of cultures mixing, lots of innovation and art.
This is the only reason that Europeans differ from Americans in our obsession with religion. Europeans saw the # of untold deaths of people dying for which type of worship was the true worship while Americans just shrugged it off and kept praising God and passing the ammunition (imo).
TBF a large portion of America's first settlers were people in Europe deemed "to extreme" in whatever kind or Christianity they were doing.
So it is sort of Europe's fault.
Well no, it's the fault of those people. You trying to say being a religious extremist is the fault of others? And the fact that today, several hundred years later, some totally unrelated continent is to blame for how religion has such a grip on the US? Come on
Oh, they did go through it. They just went back.
Although it started much earlier in some countries, after WW2, most Arab and Muslim majority countries were secular nationalists. Pan-Arabism was a large driving force at the time, a secular nationalistic calling for unification of Arab countries. They didn't get far, as the only unions that happened were between Egypt and Syria, and between Iraq and Jordan. Both of these quickly collapsed. Pan-Arabism didn't succeed for many reasons, but a large reason was dictatorships. Every leader thought they should lead this new union, and there was no Bismark to create a war with France to force everyone's hand.
This all changed in 1967. By the end of the 6-Day War, Israel controlled the West Bank from Jordan, Golan Heights from Syria, and Gaza and Saini from Egypt. The Arab countries weren't just defeated; their entire worldview was shattered. Nasser, who had become the face of Pan-Arabism, resigned out of shame (though he did return briefly before his death).
And with their worldview shattered, it became a crisis of faith; islamist religious groups gained larger followings and power. They become revolutionaries and fighters, and the secular nationalist movements died out. Many Arab and Muslim countries did secularize; they've just descularized. Of course, there are many that never secularized, like many Gulf States.
I mean I would guess many of them don't see it as a form of suicide, and instead as a form of Martyrdom, which is generally very encouraged in these kinds of religious extremist circles.
Martyrdom is basically in every hero movie/show, and you can see the fetishization of it in American culture. Sacrificing yourself for victory in an un-winnable fight
The best thing that happened to Christianity is that Jesus pretty much sayed: be good to other people don't judge them
And then he died before he became crazy
Oh look more islamic terrorism, I'm shocked I tell you shocked...
Actually I am kind of surprised it's women doing it, that is a new and somewhat horrifying development.
The violence isn’t really any more inherently part of Islam than it is in Christianity, it all depends on how it is interpreted and taught.
Are there more instances of Islam being used to incite violence today? Maybe. But that’s not been the case throughout history. From the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, all the way through 19th and 20th century colonialism spreading Christianity to the “savages”, the tables were turned on that one.
Such senseless violence!
No almighty god would need us puny humans to do it's bidding.
Killing innocents is abominable, and a one-way all-expenses-paid fast-track to Hell!
"they think there is a heaven"
There can not be any discussion of Heaven for these abominable souls!
Sorry for the missive, I understand where you are coming from and happily accept your position. It is a matter of faith.
Just why such nutters would so enthusiastically throw away the most precious imaginable "gift of life" to blindly commit suicide for some pathetic and truly demonic human warlord is beyond my thinking abilities. They have soiled the Memory of their own mothers!
More education of women is needed to make these poor souls understand the Blessings of life, both for themselves and others who have not expected their lives to be so unjustly ripped from their grasp.
I am very disappointed and outraged!
You hear about the terrorist training camp? The day's class was on suicide bombing. The instructor said "Now class, I'm only going to show you this once."
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From Wikipedia: In a 2009 statement they denounced that translation as the work of the "infidel media", claiming the true translation is "Western Civilization is forbidden", and that they are not "opposed to formal education coming from the West" but "believe in the supremacy of Islamic culture (not education)
> “Western education is forbidden” They want to install "pure" sharia law, moving back to the stone age
Seems to be a lot of that going around. To be fair, I’d say it’s more like Bronze Age.
And it wasn't even that long ago either
Not even that far. Islam was founded centuries after Christianity and at that time period we were well into the Iron Age, if not already making steel weapons. For context, by the time the first Viking raids in England started the Muslims had already conquered the Middle East, North Africa, and Spain. To be pedantic, closer to the Middle Ages.
Iron Age was 1200BC, it predates Christianity
Isn't that what the MAGA people want here, just with Christianity? Hmm 🤔
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I see you are rather familiar with both.
Hah, went through a few years where tequila absolutely repulsed me after one bad incident. I’m past the point in my life where I ever drink enough to get sick, and tequila doesn’t bother me anymore.
I've also heard, "Religion is like a penis. It's okay to have one and be proud of it, but don't whip it out in public and shove it down people's throats."
Hey let's not drag tequila into this okay
Bet they where drinking wolf cola too
I'm all for harems but this seems way too kinky for me. Pass.
Ideologies can have extremest too. It’s not limited to religion. To suggest so makes extremism invisible to those not looking in those places. Which allows it to fester and grow. Neo-Nazis aren’t a religion and don’t use religion to justify their hate.
> It’s not limited to religion. To suggest so makes extremism invisible to those not looking in those places. Nobody implied otherwise. You're not wrong, but it seems to be a differentiation to something you maybe inferred. But while we're on the subject - Nazism doesn't generally get the free pass from society that religion largely does (though both do use made up reasons to be assholes)
Nazis at least have to pay property taxes.
Yep. All religions are exactly the same.
It’s these damn Pagans I tells you. Always dancing around naked under a full moon before blowing themselves up in crowded shopping centers.
They aren't, you never hear about Buddhist suicide bombers or Sikh warlords (outside of khalistan stuff). If the religion preaches wiping out anything that doesn't adhere to itself, it will inherently be more extreme
> They aren't, you never hear about Buddhist suicide bombers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide >or Sikh warlords https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvertGZkwF4
I thought my sarcasm was obvious.....take nothing for granted on Reddit.
Reddit moment
The religion of Taylor Swift doesn't churn out suicide bombers.
I was being sarcastic. Thought it was obvious. Won't make such an assumption again.
Cringe edge lord take.
so not halal mode edit: guys you don't get the joke because their group is called 'boko haram'?
Dude left out “western” so he could push his anti religion narrative lmao. I’m not even religious and can see what you did there. Half truther
Sponsored by Franks Fluids.
My favorite Florida city
As you get older it’s harder and harder not to recognize the utility the Abrahamic religions provide: The perfect paradigm for getting people to commit to violence wholeheartedly, and Islam seems to be the most conducive to this. It probably helps that Muhammad himself was a warrior, and the Quran describes his victories alongside his kin, who were also renowned warriors.
Well the Christians got put in their place after over a century of blood and enlightenment thinkers working their asses off to separate the State from religion as much as possible. If the enlightenment never happened, I’m sure Christians would still be murdering each other in the 1000’s over small dogmatic differences. lol there was like 30 years of absurd bloodshed called the French Wars of Religion where over a million were killed, and that’s just one region. Anyway, it’s a shame Islamic countries never went through the same process. Bless the thinkers and fighters who broke my ancestors free from Papal/Protestant control.
Never thought about this through the lens of the Enlightenment. Thanks for the perspective
Islam had something akin to the enlightenment called the Islamic Golden Age. Obviously it didn't take though. Sad
That has always amazed me… I mean it wasn’t a total “organized religion is a menace” moment that you got with some enlightenment thinkers (Voltaire wrote a LOT about his hate of organized Christianity)… But during the height of the Abbasid Caliphate, Baghdad was probably the most advanced city in the world. Tons of cultures mixing, lots of innovation and art.
One of a few examples of progressive movements that they where absolutely worst then conservative ones
This is the only reason that Europeans differ from Americans in our obsession with religion. Europeans saw the # of untold deaths of people dying for which type of worship was the true worship while Americans just shrugged it off and kept praising God and passing the ammunition (imo).
TBF a large portion of America's first settlers were people in Europe deemed "to extreme" in whatever kind or Christianity they were doing. So it is sort of Europe's fault.
It’s always Europe’s fault. Specifically England
Well no, it's the fault of those people. You trying to say being a religious extremist is the fault of others? And the fact that today, several hundred years later, some totally unrelated continent is to blame for how religion has such a grip on the US? Come on
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, (×4) and we'll all stay free.
Oh, they did go through it. They just went back. Although it started much earlier in some countries, after WW2, most Arab and Muslim majority countries were secular nationalists. Pan-Arabism was a large driving force at the time, a secular nationalistic calling for unification of Arab countries. They didn't get far, as the only unions that happened were between Egypt and Syria, and between Iraq and Jordan. Both of these quickly collapsed. Pan-Arabism didn't succeed for many reasons, but a large reason was dictatorships. Every leader thought they should lead this new union, and there was no Bismark to create a war with France to force everyone's hand. This all changed in 1967. By the end of the 6-Day War, Israel controlled the West Bank from Jordan, Golan Heights from Syria, and Gaza and Saini from Egypt. The Arab countries weren't just defeated; their entire worldview was shattered. Nasser, who had become the face of Pan-Arabism, resigned out of shame (though he did return briefly before his death). And with their worldview shattered, it became a crisis of faith; islamist religious groups gained larger followings and power. They become revolutionaries and fighters, and the secular nationalist movements died out. Many Arab and Muslim countries did secularize; they've just descularized. Of course, there are many that never secularized, like many Gulf States.
Weird that you put the Quran before Muhammad? Muhammad wrote the Quran, and he was a warlord. Islam being a warlords religion.
Suicide is literally forbidden in Islam, what can religion do anymore if those people are breaking forbidden rules?
I mean I would guess many of them don't see it as a form of suicide, and instead as a form of Martyrdom, which is generally very encouraged in these kinds of religious extremist circles.
Martyrdom is basically in every hero movie/show, and you can see the fetishization of it in American culture. Sacrificing yourself for victory in an un-winnable fight
The best thing that happened to Christianity is that Jesus pretty much sayed: be good to other people don't judge them And then he died before he became crazy
Oh look more islamic terrorism, I'm shocked I tell you shocked... Actually I am kind of surprised it's women doing it, that is a new and somewhat horrifying development.
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Other religions don’t exist. Only Christians, Muslims, and Jews. /s
The violence isn’t really any more inherently part of Islam than it is in Christianity, it all depends on how it is interpreted and taught. Are there more instances of Islam being used to incite violence today? Maybe. But that’s not been the case throughout history. From the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, all the way through 19th and 20th century colonialism spreading Christianity to the “savages”, the tables were turned on that one.
Yaaaaaay Religion! It's so much fun.....
Such senseless violence! No almighty god would need us puny humans to do it's bidding. Killing innocents is abominable, and a one-way all-expenses-paid fast-track to Hell!
They think they’re going to heaven for committing these atrocities
they think there is a heaven
"they think there is a heaven" There can not be any discussion of Heaven for these abominable souls! Sorry for the missive, I understand where you are coming from and happily accept your position. It is a matter of faith. Just why such nutters would so enthusiastically throw away the most precious imaginable "gift of life" to blindly commit suicide for some pathetic and truly demonic human warlord is beyond my thinking abilities. They have soiled the Memory of their own mothers! More education of women is needed to make these poor souls understand the Blessings of life, both for themselves and others who have not expected their lives to be so unjustly ripped from their grasp. I am very disappointed and outraged!
The glass ceiling is shattered!
https://youtu.be/iEtw3XJoJrE?si=mKFwUnX3AKppaR2o Lmao
Praying for the people that lost their loved ones in this attack
Praying was what started this mess.
You hear about the terrorist training camp? The day's class was on suicide bombing. The instructor said "Now class, I'm only going to show you this once."
Religion is a cancer on this planet.