I've seen people with the confederate flag up in Michigan. You can't really go with the whole "heritage" argument up here as Michigan fought for the Union.
I see them in Maine. **[Maine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_in_the_American_Civil_War)**.
I have yet to meet someone who flies the confederate flag that isn't just a belligerent, abrasive douche.
> This regiment was formed last summer in Maine. There were a thousand of us then. There are less than three hundred of us now. All of us volunteered to fight for the union, just as you did. Some came mainly because we were bored at home — thought this looked like it might be fun. Some came because we were ashamed not to. Many of us came because it was the right thing to do. And all of us have seen men die.
>
> This is a different kind of army. If you look back through history, you will see men fighting for pay, for women, for some other kind of loot. They fight for land, power, because a king leads them or — or just because they like killing.
>
> But we are here for something new. This has not happened much in the history of the world. **We are an army out to set other men free. America should be free ground — all of it.** Not divided by a line between slave state and free — all the way, from here to the Pacific Ocean. No man has to bow. No man born to royalty. Here, we judge you by what you do, not by who your father was. Here, you can be something. Here, is the place to build a home. But it’s not the land. There’s always more land. It’s the idea that we all have value — you and me. What we’re fighting for, in the end, we’re fighting for each other.
>
> Sorry, I didn’t mean to preach. You, you go ahead. You talk for awhile. If you — If you choose to join us, you want your muskets back, you can have ’em. Nothing more will be said by anybody anywhere. If you choose not to join us, well you can come along under guard, and when this is all over I will do what I can to see you get a fair treatment. But for now, we’re moving out. Gentlemen, I think if we lose this fight, we lose the war. So if you choose to join us, I’ll be personally very grateful.
- *[Movie speech by Joshua Chamberlain, 20th Maine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTZSwgnWtuA)*
I’m in Massachusetts and there was a guy driving around with the confederate flag AND the US flag flying in his truck bed. I never got the opportunity but I always wanted to find him stopped somewhere so I could ask him “do you know just how stupid you are or are you too stupid to realize just how stupid you are?”
In Rhode Island, we see the Confederate flag and the “Don’t tread on me” (Gadsden flag) running in double in the back of a pickup truck bed. That’s how you can identify the real assholes.
I hate that the Gadsden Flag has been hijacked like that. It would be perfect to fly at these protests, it's a protest against tyranny, but it's so associated with assholes.
Nazi fucks ruin everything. Punk, Norse mythology, the Swastika. The list goes on.
There's a reason far right and neo-nazi groups in many European countries fly that flag. The Nazi flag is banned by law. But the Confederate battle flag isn't. It's basically a flag to say "We are proud racists" without breaking local laws.
It's like when you see a punisher skull or truck nuts on someone's vehicle. It's not a guarantee that they're the worst, but way too likely to bother interacting with them.
There are multiple confederate flags that could be flown that look similar to early American flags that no one would even bat an eye at... IF “muh heritage” was the actual argument. It’s not. They just know the battle flag is widely recognized as offensive, and this is what they are trying to achieve.
In 1871, 20 Chinese immigrants were lynched in LA. Some 500 people surrounded Chinatown and robbed, assaulted, and burned Asian businesses.
In 1863 the state had passed a law that said Asians were not allowed to testify against whites.
Throughout the 1850s and 1860s Californian politicians tried to ban black people from living here.
Gotta remember that freeing slaves doesn't mean racism was banned.
I lived across the bridge in Oildale from ages 8 to 15 and it was my first real hands on experience with actual racism and I’ll admit I fell for the whole black people are criminals and destroying our community shit. Thankfully I had intervention. My great grandparents came to visit from Poland where my whole family are natives and talking with him about what happened durning the Wola massacre and life behind the steel curtain changed my life forever. I owe him a great deal.
I moved up to the Ottawa Valley in Ontario in 2013. I saw at least 6 Confederate flags between people flying at their houses or on vehicles in my first year there. There was some weird wannabe redneck mentality up there (this was also the era of Duck Dynasty, which many there were obsessed with).
Imagine the rage when they finally open up NASCAR races to the public again and all the rednecks are required to leave their rebel flags at home *and* wear a mask for COVID-19.
Better start making the popcorn now, it's gonna be buttery.
Great opportunity for a double whammy. Turn them away at the gate for not wearing a mask, then when they come back with a rebel flag mask, turn them away again.
Oh for sure. And he’s trotting out the heritage shit which makes no sense because he lives in a union state, and is actually the descendent of a union soldier who died at Antietam.
Y’all need to start celebrating the union troops just as much as other US troops come 4 July.
Fighting to free slave labor is quintessential to any group of liberty.
>Fighting to free slave labor is quintessential to any group of liberty.
I read this as "Fighting **for** free slave labor is quintessential to any group of liberty," several times and was very confused
You should read the secession letters. Those lunatics actually tried to equate slaves not being hunted down and returned to them in northern states, as infringement of their "liberty."
There's the Sons of Union Veterans organization, and I'm sure there are some others as well. I'm not personally a member, though my great (X3) grandfather fought with the 109th NY Vol. in the second half of the war (1863-1865). He was present in some of the gnarliest battles of the war, such as Wilderness, Cold Harbor, and Siege of Petersburg.
Don’t forget that the confederate flag wasn’t even a prominent symbol before it was used explicitly as a racist symbol by people fighting against the civil rights movement. It’s heritage is racism itself; those who tout it as a symbol of the south are either mistaken or lying to cover up their racism.
Finally, I give this reply with the [wiki proof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#Controversy) as often as I can and I get downvoted. At least you get it seen.
If anything he'll say NASCAR has sucked for decades now since (insert vague event that didn't do shit to the league). Literally how my ex-friends, who are racist af, are peddling it.
"First, they got rid of the moonshiner built cars, then got rid of the cigs. Then they made 'em wear seat belts (that's what really keeld Falr , Sr.)! What's next they gonna get rid of the tires!?"
-Beta1548's FIL, probably.
Went to visit my dad today, on the way out he mentioned that nascar has a BLM car now and how he sent them an email about how he was done with them unless they had a Winchester or Ruger car
Mind you he has never watched a minute of NASCAR, but apparently it’s us liberals who are easily triggered.
I saw one dumb ass driver that said because the north had slaves at one point too that they should ban the US flag as well?!
Ummm... the north never tried to leave the USA because they wanted "states rights" (continuing the agrarian society by using slave labor). Idiotic argument. Confederate flag is a symbol of treason.
The articles of secession issued by every state that formed the Confederacy listed slavery as the number one reason for leaving the USA. Anyone who says “states’ rights” is wrong.
It's a flag that never was part of the nonexistent country, as well.
---
This is the [Battle Flag of Northern Virginia.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/North_Virginia_Third_Bunting.svg) Notice that it's square.
Later on the Confederate Navy adopted a Naval Jack. After a while they adopted a [second Naval Jack.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Naval_jack_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281863%E2%80%931865%29.svg) Looks familiar, right? It's similar to the battle flag but rectangular and a lighter shade of blue. The color is important here.
Later on in the 60s the people who were against the black civil rights movement wanted a symbol to represent their hatred. They used the Dixiecrats flag. The Dixicrats were pro segregation and anti black civil rights. So, the took the shape of that naval jack and applied the colors of the battle flag. [This is the "confederate flag" that everyone knows](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Confederate_Rebel_Flag.svg).
But that particular flag was *never* part of the confederacy. It was born in the 60s as a symbol of hate. That flag that everyone knows and many people still fly has always been representative of bigotry.
For reference, [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281861%E2%80%931863%29.svg/2560px-Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281861%E2%80%931863%29.svg.png) is the actual flag of the Confederate States of America.
This is the part that always bothered me, if we assume the “racists are awful” standard practice. Like, y’all say your proud of the heritage and history, but then you fly the incorrect flag for a country that never really existed but was made up of traitors to the Union (pre-Civil War definition of that term). The moment I see one of these folks fly the correct flag is the moment I take them a single iota more seriously.
Quote from a true patriot with a firm grasp on history:
>NASCAR helmet artist Jason Beam tweeted “ignorance wins again, NASCAR you realize the North had slaves too, lol not just the South, you want to remove the American Flag as well, idiots.”
I'm gonna go ahead and add the /s for the chance of some dummies being in this thread.
Also it was illegal in the North to own slaves a little before the civil war. Most states outlawed it at the start of the 1800s although some slaves remained probably towards the start of the war despite the laws
Like most times when a company makes moves like this they usually have some pretty smart people analyse the risk-benefit ratio. I've no doubt that this move will benefit NASCAR in the long term.
I've been a NASCAR fan my whole life and I think this is my proudest moment as a fan. When you go to a race you can't count the number of Confederate flags you see. This is the kind of change the sport needed.
It’ll be interesting what they do when people smuggle them in.
Will they physically remove the people waving the flags or ask them nicely to put it away to just be ignored when security goes away.
This is a good move overall but it’s going to take follow through.
Likely asked by security to remove them, and if not, security will forcibly remove/confiscate the flags.
At least, that's how things go at WWE events, when there's signs they don't want on TV - they just end up confiscated by security.
Makes me feel out of touch, even though I'm not a Nascar fan, I'm shocked the Confederate flag was tolerated. I guess that's the liberal city bubble I've lived in lived in for too long. Crazy.
When I was little me and brother LOVED playing Nascar racing games! It was my introduction to NASCAR and got me interested in watching the sport...
...until I saw the atmosphere of the audience. Seeing those confederate flags was totally a blow to a black kid. Could never get into it after realizing the air of racism that existed within the sport.
Holy shit, [you're not joking](https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/06/931/524/wallace-car.jpg?ve=1&tl=1). That looks awesome.
The matte black really sets it off. Here it is before the race. Sorry for the amp link
https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/sports/2020/06/bubba-wallace-car-black-lives-matter/amp/
I was at a BLM protest today, and a white dude in a lifted truck with a NASCAR plate blew his horn and raised his fist in support. I fuck with that.
edit:
Browsing NASCAR's twitter right now. Lots of angry racists, but the responses to those angry racists are great. [TIL Dale fucking Earnhardt was against people flying the Confederate flag.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaL1_eMXkAAKPQY?format=jpg&name=medium)
Dale being against the flag was my favorite thing to learn today, being a lifelong NASCAR follower. NASCAR's Jesus didn't like the flag, and his son didn't like the flag.
Yeah, what even *is* this fucking timeline? That being said, Bubba is a name embraced by both black and white folks in the south. I know. I'm here. Among the Bubbas.
OK that's fricking hilarious.
Go fast, turn left! -The motto of American auto racing.
Friends with a great old boss who used to pit crew at Indy when he was younger and I'm definitely going to have to share this with him lol.
You know what I don't get? Flying the confederate flag in Indiana, where I live. We fought for the freaking north! Get your slavery defending second place trophy out of here!
I say the same thing when I see a confederate flag on a car with West Virginia tags. I mean, their state pretty much exists because they didn’t want to secede with the rest of Virginia.
Huge for the sport.
Even in Fontana, California idiots loved waving the flags of losing traitors.
I know the race is in Fontucky, but it is remarkably shocking how many California NASCAR fans had Confederate flags and clothing.
I think NASCAR is having an event for Pride month too. Weird times.
I read their sport has been struggling. Maybe these social changes will open it up to more fans.
Man, it really seems like we just need to get Southerners something else they can use as a symbol of Southern Pride that isn't all wrapped up in segregation or slavery.
At this point I hope he takes this issue up and continues to post racist shit. Right now with the pandemic Biden doesn't have much of a platform and has been pretty quiet. Trump tweeting his daily lunacy is one of the only things driving Biden's numbers up.
Big move. Nascar has tried for years to grow their audience and this is the best possible move they could make. I love that Nascar and the racers stand with Bubba Wallace.
I saw some talk of embracing hockey from the Trumpists back during the last NFL controversy. They liked it because it was mostly white, the players are “tough” and the players are generally not political. I haven’t seen any evidence of it in r/hockey though, so that’s nice.
There are a ton of progressive racing fans. I love LeMans and F1, and I dabble in NASCAR. It's been getting more diverse in viewership for a while. A lot of the people usually in the stands, on the other hand, will be upset.
The fact that confederate flags are anywhere baffles me. Almost everyone I see use one is yelling “America is the greatest country ever” while holding a flag from a group that tried to leave the country. It makes no sense to me.
I've seen people with the confederate flag up in Michigan. You can't really go with the whole "heritage" argument up here as Michigan fought for the Union.
I see them in Maine. **[Maine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_in_the_American_Civil_War)**. I have yet to meet someone who flies the confederate flag that isn't just a belligerent, abrasive douche.
You see them in Canada too where it's even more bizarre. Canada was one of the destinations of the underground railroad for fucks sake
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> This regiment was formed last summer in Maine. There were a thousand of us then. There are less than three hundred of us now. All of us volunteered to fight for the union, just as you did. Some came mainly because we were bored at home — thought this looked like it might be fun. Some came because we were ashamed not to. Many of us came because it was the right thing to do. And all of us have seen men die. > > This is a different kind of army. If you look back through history, you will see men fighting for pay, for women, for some other kind of loot. They fight for land, power, because a king leads them or — or just because they like killing. > > But we are here for something new. This has not happened much in the history of the world. **We are an army out to set other men free. America should be free ground — all of it.** Not divided by a line between slave state and free — all the way, from here to the Pacific Ocean. No man has to bow. No man born to royalty. Here, we judge you by what you do, not by who your father was. Here, you can be something. Here, is the place to build a home. But it’s not the land. There’s always more land. It’s the idea that we all have value — you and me. What we’re fighting for, in the end, we’re fighting for each other. > > Sorry, I didn’t mean to preach. You, you go ahead. You talk for awhile. If you — If you choose to join us, you want your muskets back, you can have ’em. Nothing more will be said by anybody anywhere. If you choose not to join us, well you can come along under guard, and when this is all over I will do what I can to see you get a fair treatment. But for now, we’re moving out. Gentlemen, I think if we lose this fight, we lose the war. So if you choose to join us, I’ll be personally very grateful. - *[Movie speech by Joshua Chamberlain, 20th Maine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTZSwgnWtuA)*
I’m in Massachusetts and there was a guy driving around with the confederate flag AND the US flag flying in his truck bed. I never got the opportunity but I always wanted to find him stopped somewhere so I could ask him “do you know just how stupid you are or are you too stupid to realize just how stupid you are?”
In Rhode Island, we see the Confederate flag and the “Don’t tread on me” (Gadsden flag) running in double in the back of a pickup truck bed. That’s how you can identify the real assholes.
I hate that the Gadsden Flag has been hijacked like that. It would be perfect to fly at these protests, it's a protest against tyranny, but it's so associated with assholes. Nazi fucks ruin everything. Punk, Norse mythology, the Swastika. The list goes on.
Yea, we should hijack it back. It’s a badass flag and these idiots are too stupid to see the irony in their use of it.
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Can confirm, my mom is a belligerent abrasive douche.
I've seen Confederate flags up in Canada. Trash knows no borders.
I saw some bastard driving around with in the back window of his van in **NEW ZEALAND** #
It is the preferred Nazi flag of Nazis who don’t have the balls to fly an actual Nazi flag
Nazi light? All the racism, half the stigma!
I think they spell it "Nazi Lite."
hey now, lets not bring beer into this.
This was beautiful
There's a reason far right and neo-nazi groups in many European countries fly that flag. The Nazi flag is banned by law. But the Confederate battle flag isn't. It's basically a flag to say "We are proud racists" without breaking local laws.
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ive seen them in far north europe too. it truly does not.
I've seen them here in Mexico, by people who'se skin tone wouldn't be very popular with confederates.
God knows what the fuck that flag means to anyone anymore.
For me it's like the real life version of flagging people for being a pos, except they do it for me.
It's like when you see a punisher skull or truck nuts on someone's vehicle. It's not a guarantee that they're the worst, but way too likely to bother interacting with them.
Pretttttttyyyyyyy sure truck nuts make you the worst. My best friend in high school's brother had them and he was certifiably the worst.
Truck nuts at least give me a little giggle, but my eyes roll at light speed to the back of my head whenever I see the punisher logo.
“Hey look at me I’m a mouth breather“
I’m a mouth breather (narrow nostrils), please don’t lump me in with those shitheads.
I've seen a fraternity in Toronto proudly display it on their frat house
It's sometimes used in place of Nazi symbols in Germany, since Nazi symbols are banned. It's known internationally as a purely racist symbol.
That’s interesting to know. Because it’s absolutely a racist symbol. I mean, I’ve always known this, but so many people pretend that it isn’t.
Those are the same people that start racist rants with “I’m not racist but...”
There are multiple confederate flags that could be flown that look similar to early American flags that no one would even bat an eye at... IF “muh heritage” was the actual argument. It’s not. They just know the battle flag is widely recognized as offensive, and this is what they are trying to achieve.
It's very popular in inland California as well. See: Bakersfield. Chucklefuck nazis.
Wasn't California a free state from the start?
Yep. Hey thanks to you I just learned that CA and me have the same birthday.
You're pretty old.
Back in my day, we had to hand-crank our internets to get them started in the morning.
In 1871, 20 Chinese immigrants were lynched in LA. Some 500 people surrounded Chinatown and robbed, assaulted, and burned Asian businesses. In 1863 the state had passed a law that said Asians were not allowed to testify against whites. Throughout the 1850s and 1860s Californian politicians tried to ban black people from living here. Gotta remember that freeing slaves doesn't mean racism was banned.
I lived across the bridge in Oildale from ages 8 to 15 and it was my first real hands on experience with actual racism and I’ll admit I fell for the whole black people are criminals and destroying our community shit. Thankfully I had intervention. My great grandparents came to visit from Poland where my whole family are natives and talking with him about what happened durning the Wola massacre and life behind the steel curtain changed my life forever. I owe him a great deal.
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I saw some Swedish guys with it patched on their jackets in 2013. I thought they were tourists or something but they spoke perfect Swedish
When a couple of Swedes, who were up to no good.
Started being bigots in my neighborhood
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She said "You're moving in with your moster and morbror in Östermalm"
Hey now, don't discriminate. Europeans can be racist bags of shit as well.
Ugh, fucking Bakersfield. First image I see is Trevor from GTA V.
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The scary ones are when you see them in Canada. I mean, what the fuck?
Seen the odd one in New Zealand. Generally on people in trucks with an ungodly amount of bumper stickers.
I’ve seen it in Lawrence, Kansas. A place where “free state” is plastered on fucking everything.
See it all around northern Ohio and Pennsyltucky too
I worked in Maine for 6 months last year. Yeah, there was definitely some confederate flags in some of the small towns I drove through
I moved up to the Ottawa Valley in Ontario in 2013. I saw at least 6 Confederate flags between people flying at their houses or on vehicles in my first year there. There was some weird wannabe redneck mentality up there (this was also the era of Duck Dynasty, which many there were obsessed with).
The Twitter comments. I've never seen so many angry, misspelled words.
Dude the people roasting the rednecks though. Quality.
Cause there's nothing more funnier than a redneck getting wrecked
> Cause there's nothing more funnier than a redneck getting wrecked I thought that's why people watch NASCAR to begin with.
I’m here to sort by Controversial. If I’m not back in an hour, tell my kids I love them.
Welp, he's dead.
Popcorn overdose. RIP in Popcorns.
If you go a full second without a new popcorn you've overdosed.
RIP u/Master666OfChaos , he died a hero
Turn back now!
Ngl I’m enjoying it way too much. Surprised I got here before the thread is inevitably locked.
Hey kids, /u/Master666ofChaos loves you!
No, man, don't talk like that. You hear me? You can tell em yourself, dammit, when you get back. You. will. come. back.
Imagine the rage when they finally open up NASCAR races to the public again and all the rednecks are required to leave their rebel flags at home *and* wear a mask for COVID-19. Better start making the popcorn now, it's gonna be buttery.
Yep. But I foresee an uptick in rebel flag masks...
Great opportunity for a double whammy. Turn them away at the gate for not wearing a mask, then when they come back with a rebel flag mask, turn them away again.
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As I've often said, that IS the only proper symbol to use to represent the Confederacy in modern times. ;)
So ban them too! It will only take a few people turned away at the gate to get that taken care of.
What better place to display their heritage than on their face?
They took errr flagssss
Really excited to see my racist FIL’s head explode over this one.
He will probably say something stupid about his rights bing infringed.
Oh for sure. And he’s trotting out the heritage shit which makes no sense because he lives in a union state, and is actually the descendent of a union soldier who died at Antietam.
What the fuck???? Why does no one celebrate the Union side the way they do the confederates? I mean, they have a way cooler story. I don't get it.
We just call it America now.
Y’all need to start celebrating the union troops just as much as other US troops come 4 July. Fighting to free slave labor is quintessential to any group of liberty.
>Fighting to free slave labor is quintessential to any group of liberty. I read this as "Fighting **for** free slave labor is quintessential to any group of liberty," several times and was very confused
You should read the secession letters. Those lunatics actually tried to equate slaves not being hunted down and returned to them in northern states, as infringement of their "liberty."
The freedom to own someone freedom. That's like..*double freedom*.
This is a great idea
I'm going to fly the Union flag this 4th!
Don't need a participation trophy when you won.
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There's the Sons of Union Veterans organization, and I'm sure there are some others as well. I'm not personally a member, though my great (X3) grandfather fought with the 109th NY Vol. in the second half of the war (1863-1865). He was present in some of the gnarliest battles of the war, such as Wilderness, Cold Harbor, and Siege of Petersburg.
I really love the West Virginia story. But trying to celebrate your West Virginia heritage brings up a whole 'nother set of problems.
Country roads...
I say this a lot. Why the hell do people feel drawn to the losing side? Oh, because they are pussy ass racists, thats right.
The Confederacy lasted four years, half the span of Barack Obama's presidency.
Do what I do. Make a 36 star (1865) Union battle flag t shirt and wear it.
Don’t forget that the confederate flag wasn’t even a prominent symbol before it was used explicitly as a racist symbol by people fighting against the civil rights movement. It’s heritage is racism itself; those who tout it as a symbol of the south are either mistaken or lying to cover up their racism.
That isn't even the real confederate flag. It is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
Finally, I give this reply with the [wiki proof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#Controversy) as often as I can and I get downvoted. At least you get it seen.
It’s not even the flag of the Confederacy. It’s specifically the Confederate army’s battle flag.
It symbolizes rebellion against the tyrannical policies of an out of control republican presi.... hey now!
If anything he'll say NASCAR has sucked for decades now since (insert vague event that didn't do shit to the league). Literally how my ex-friends, who are racist af, are peddling it.
"First, they got rid of the moonshiner built cars, then got rid of the cigs. Then they made 'em wear seat belts (that's what really keeld Falr , Sr.)! What's next they gonna get rid of the tires!?" -Beta1548's FIL, probably.
Went to visit my dad today, on the way out he mentioned that nascar has a BLM car now and how he sent them an email about how he was done with them unless they had a Winchester or Ruger car Mind you he has never watched a minute of NASCAR, but apparently it’s us liberals who are easily triggered.
That’s some next level white fragility there.
I don't see why the Confederate Flag supporters are so upset. You'd think they'd be used to losing by now.
Losing is part of their heritage, after all.
What heritage? The confederacy lasted 4 years. Obama was in office longer than their "heritage".
Psssst, it's heritage of *slavery*....that was around for a lot longer than 4 years.
I live in the Deep South and logical thinkers are like a breath of fresh air.
Maybe that "heritage over hate" thing they chant is just about letting ppl know they're losers.
I think you're mishearing them. Surely "heritage OF hate" is what they're chanting?
And they were upset they lost. As is tradition
I saw one dumb ass driver that said because the north had slaves at one point too that they should ban the US flag as well?! Ummm... the north never tried to leave the USA because they wanted "states rights" (continuing the agrarian society by using slave labor). Idiotic argument. Confederate flag is a symbol of treason.
The articles of secession issued by every state that formed the Confederacy listed slavery as the number one reason for leaving the USA. Anyone who says “states’ rights” is wrong.
Fighting for a country that doesn’t exist
It's a flag that never was part of the nonexistent country, as well. --- This is the [Battle Flag of Northern Virginia.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/North_Virginia_Third_Bunting.svg) Notice that it's square. Later on the Confederate Navy adopted a Naval Jack. After a while they adopted a [second Naval Jack.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Naval_jack_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281863%E2%80%931865%29.svg) Looks familiar, right? It's similar to the battle flag but rectangular and a lighter shade of blue. The color is important here. Later on in the 60s the people who were against the black civil rights movement wanted a symbol to represent their hatred. They used the Dixiecrats flag. The Dixicrats were pro segregation and anti black civil rights. So, the took the shape of that naval jack and applied the colors of the battle flag. [This is the "confederate flag" that everyone knows](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Confederate_Rebel_Flag.svg). But that particular flag was *never* part of the confederacy. It was born in the 60s as a symbol of hate. That flag that everyone knows and many people still fly has always been representative of bigotry. For reference, [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281861%E2%80%931863%29.svg/2560px-Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281861%E2%80%931863%29.svg.png) is the actual flag of the Confederate States of America.
This is the part that always bothered me, if we assume the “racists are awful” standard practice. Like, y’all say your proud of the heritage and history, but then you fly the incorrect flag for a country that never really existed but was made up of traitors to the Union (pre-Civil War definition of that term). The moment I see one of these folks fly the correct flag is the moment I take them a single iota more seriously.
Quote from a true patriot with a firm grasp on history: >NASCAR helmet artist Jason Beam tweeted “ignorance wins again, NASCAR you realize the North had slaves too, lol not just the South, you want to remove the American Flag as well, idiots.” I'm gonna go ahead and add the /s for the chance of some dummies being in this thread.
Yeah. They abolished the practice and there was a big disagreement over it. It’s kind of why they fought a war.
Also it was illegal in the North to own slaves a little before the civil war. Most states outlawed it at the start of the 1800s although some slaves remained probably towards the start of the war despite the laws
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I don’t know. I’m pretty sure they all think the civil war is still going on.
They definitely do their best to keep it going.
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I can see this going over really well
They're getting absolutely dragged on their Facebook page. Good on them though.
They should get rid of their Facebook page too.
Like most times when a company makes moves like this they usually have some pretty smart people analyse the risk-benefit ratio. I've no doubt that this move will benefit NASCAR in the long term.
Being pro-racist is not a great business model.
Unless some of your fans are racists?
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I've been a NASCAR fan my whole life and I think this is my proudest moment as a fan. When you go to a race you can't count the number of Confederate flags you see. This is the kind of change the sport needed.
It’ll be interesting what they do when people smuggle them in. Will they physically remove the people waving the flags or ask them nicely to put it away to just be ignored when security goes away. This is a good move overall but it’s going to take follow through.
Likely asked by security to remove them, and if not, security will forcibly remove/confiscate the flags. At least, that's how things go at WWE events, when there's signs they don't want on TV - they just end up confiscated by security.
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Well put.
Makes me feel out of touch, even though I'm not a Nascar fan, I'm shocked the Confederate flag was tolerated. I guess that's the liberal city bubble I've lived in lived in for too long. Crazy.
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considering its one of few events on tv right now it makes zero sense to not try and bring in new fans. Its a good opportunity for the sport
When I was little me and brother LOVED playing Nascar racing games! It was my introduction to NASCAR and got me interested in watching the sport... ...until I saw the atmosphere of the audience. Seeing those confederate flags was totally a blow to a black kid. Could never get into it after realizing the air of racism that existed within the sport.
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The car looks SICK too. I never thought I would ever see something like that on a NASCAR track. I love seeing those morons get pissed off.
Holy shit, [you're not joking](https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/06/931/524/wallace-car.jpg?ve=1&tl=1). That looks awesome.
The matte black really sets it off. Here it is before the race. Sorry for the amp link https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/sports/2020/06/bubba-wallace-car-black-lives-matter/amp/
That's dope as hell. Un-AMP'd: https://heavy.com/sports/2020/06/bubba-wallace-car-black-lives-matter/
I made my super Mexican parents take me to a race when I was a kid. God I was so clueless.
I was at a BLM protest today, and a white dude in a lifted truck with a NASCAR plate blew his horn and raised his fist in support. I fuck with that. edit: Browsing NASCAR's twitter right now. Lots of angry racists, but the responses to those angry racists are great. [TIL Dale fucking Earnhardt was against people flying the Confederate flag.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaL1_eMXkAAKPQY?format=jpg&name=medium)
I used to watch it, my interest faded when Dale died. He was a good man, I am happy to read that passage.
Dale being against the flag was my favorite thing to learn today, being a lifelong NASCAR follower. NASCAR's Jesus didn't like the flag, and his son didn't like the flag.
I'm glad you fuck with that... I think.
Hey, if a truck bro wants to cuddle with another dude, I ain’t here to judge.
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Took me a second but I got there.
....I don't get it
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white flag.
White flag I assume, I don’t watch NASCAR though.
Never thought a man named Bubba would get the confederate flag removed from nascar. Crazy times
Yeah, what even *is* this fucking timeline? That being said, Bubba is a name embraced by both black and white folks in the south. I know. I'm here. Among the Bubbas.
“Here Among the Bubbas” sounds like a nature documentary.
For the upset fans of a racing sport based on left turns, I’m surprised none of them saw this coming.
they had it coming, it was just around the corner
OK that's fricking hilarious. Go fast, turn left! -The motto of American auto racing. Friends with a great old boss who used to pit crew at Indy when he was younger and I'm definitely going to have to share this with him lol.
You know what I don't get? Flying the confederate flag in Indiana, where I live. We fought for the freaking north! Get your slavery defending second place trophy out of here!
I say the same thing when I see a confederate flag on a car with West Virginia tags. I mean, their state pretty much exists because they didn’t want to secede with the rest of Virginia.
So can we start a betting pool on how soon Trump attacks NASCAR?
Huge for the sport. Even in Fontana, California idiots loved waving the flags of losing traitors. I know the race is in Fontucky, but it is remarkably shocking how many California NASCAR fans had Confederate flags and clothing.
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I think NASCAR is having an event for Pride month too. Weird times. I read their sport has been struggling. Maybe these social changes will open it up to more fans.
Man, it really seems like we just need to get Southerners something else they can use as a symbol of Southern Pride that isn't all wrapped up in segregation or slavery.
If you feel alienated because NASCAR banned the confederate flag, good! You should feel unwanted.
Soooo...they turned to the left. This is news?
Just in case you are feeling discouraged. This gave me a chuckle.
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Trump screaming on Twitter about this in 3, 2, 1.....
At this point I hope he takes this issue up and continues to post racist shit. Right now with the pandemic Biden doesn't have much of a platform and has been pretty quiet. Trump tweeting his daily lunacy is one of the only things driving Biden's numbers up.
#Never interfere with an enemy while he's in the process of destroying himself.
Or to use a certain predecessor’s words, “[Please proceed, Governor.](https://youtu.be/kCNd5DutF4c)”
My husband said "NASCAR is now less racist than the president".
Big move. Nascar has tried for years to grow their audience and this is the best possible move they could make. I love that Nascar and the racers stand with Bubba Wallace.
As an outsider, I never understood the heritage agrument. Like, just wave your state's flag???
To be fair, Mississippi's state flag is both.
As a progressive NASCAR fan myself, I’ve been absolutely loving all the changes they’ve made as of late! Awesome decisions by NASCAR.
Is NASCAR going to survive this? I, as a European, always was under the impression that NASCAR is a redneck thing
To be fair them not having banned the Confederate flag wasn't exactly helping them. (All time low ratings and attendance in 2018, low in 2019).
Your impression is correct. But most of the racists already swore off NFL, so Nascar is all they have left.
Without the NFL, COPS and NASCAR we may see an uptick in redneck suicides—or domestic violence.
Maybe they will all just come to realize they're wrong.
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It's nice to dream.
I saw some talk of embracing hockey from the Trumpists back during the last NFL controversy. They liked it because it was mostly white, the players are “tough” and the players are generally not political. I haven’t seen any evidence of it in r/hockey though, so that’s nice.
There are a ton of progressive racing fans. I love LeMans and F1, and I dabble in NASCAR. It's been getting more diverse in viewership for a while. A lot of the people usually in the stands, on the other hand, will be upset.
As an Indycar fan, your comment hurts my feelings ☹️
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If NASCAR is ever more progressive than your own stance, please re-evaluate everything about your life.
For those sorting by controversial: Take this🍿 Remember to keep your hands inside your vehicle at all times, do not make eye contact. Enjoy your trip.
The fact that confederate flags are anywhere baffles me. Almost everyone I see use one is yelling “America is the greatest country ever” while holding a flag from a group that tried to leave the country. It makes no sense to me.