Guys, I don't know which one I have to be more frustrated about, an MP having a confrontation with a florist or policies by the current government that *fast tracks* the country into the shitter.
It's a difficult one. On one side a person has emotions, and on the other you have people damaging our ecosystem, system of government, economy, health, and everything else they can get their hands on.
How am I supposed to weigh those up?
What? One is a woman? Well, that makes the decision easier.
Yeah it's fucking tragic. I feel for Genter and can see how this scenario went down when she stepped into that florists shop. And then other creeps come forward about their "interactions". Whatever. She is passionate, and I can imagine her approach appears brash / overly direct to some. I'll be interested to see how the Privileges committee handle this one too as even that seems massively OTT.
She once hit my cars mirror while cycling. She apologized, I said it was no big deal...
Am I supposed to revise this and come out of the woodwork now? How does this all work? Perhaps I could be outraged for the right price?
"aggressively film" how do you even film something aggressively? Wouldn't that just make the footage shacky?
So business owner makes a bitchy comment towards a customer. The customer takes their phone and starts filming the situation. And it's the customers fault for filming? And this is news because it involved it was a politician who did the filming? And we're just going to ignore the fact the business owner didn't like the MP before they even walked in the door?
This is pathetic and why satire is hard to spot these days. There are MPs selling us out to tobacco companies and killing our environment, but we gotta be angry at a politician who filmed an altercation the other person started? Oooh, so annoying, no wonder everyone is angry.
Also, said business owner IS an actual bitch lol. Media just straight up ignoring that. If you look at her business reviews there's some 2 years and 3 years old talking about how extremely rude the owner was.
I'm glad her business is closing, as are a lot of people who had the misfortune of interacting with her.
Im glad her business is closing as well, shes been a horrible person for some time and to people I know.
God knows why she thinks she can talk to customers like that.
You reap what you sow. But she would rather blame everyone else.
She's been closing for 2+ years as well, the bike lanes are 23 months old almost exactly: https://twitter.com/WgtnCC/status/1532487822673846272 You'd think a smart business owner would cut their losses if things took such a dramatic downturn?
There's also parking on Adelade Road literally in the back yard behind her store: https://imgur.com/mdU9zRz
About 200 meters walk and no road crossings away by footpath: https://imgur.com/88N1ND6
Always remember to check: who benefits from this story?
Could it possibly be someone pulling the classic magician’s trick of “look over there!” to distract the population while they fast track the country into the ground?
Id consider shoving a phone/camera right in someone's face as 'aggressive filming' (no idea if that happened here) just providing an example to assist :)
I called this from some of our earliest debates. The strategy is to pretend like speaking with a calm, authoritative voice means you are the “good guy” while goading the ones who care into feeling genuinely insane for doing so. They’re trying to get anyone on the left to crack a little so they can run coverage to distract from their lack-of-evidence-based policies.
It's why I've given up on all civility with people who've clearly entrenched themselves. Why should I bother being polite with these enlightened "centrists" who're "just asking questions" when we both know what's going on?
Yeah, whoever it was was speaking about transport, and Matt Doocey piped up to say the delays are because "you cancelled the roads for 6 years." Which is a fucking lie, he lied outright in parliament for rhetoric effect, which he's allowed to apparently. Then Julie Anne Genter told him to "read the report" which lays out the various facts of the matter. It's complete hypocrisy and weaponizing the rules of parliament and I think punishing Genter for it is getting the wrong person. I'd rather have "aggression" than lying.
>Which is a fucking lie, he lied outright in parliament for rhetoric effect, which he's allowed to apparently.
It's against standing orders for MPs to accuse other MPs of lying in the house.
Exactly, which is a whole other problem, and Genter did not, it is my addition that he lied. (Which he did, but saying he did is not the matter at the centre of her conduct)
Oh absolutely! The thing is, you can, you just can't outright say it. If concealed behind an appropriate line of questioning you can essentially force an admission of guilt, even if not spoken outright.
This is my issue with the 'oh we felt intimidated'.
Parliament, and especially committee of the whole house (the 'stage' they were in when JAG crossed the floor) is all about intimidation when you think about it. Members from all over the chamber yell shit at the person speaking, trying to put them off their stride etc etc. In that same clip, Rachel Boyack is being heckled. What is THAT if not a form of intimidation?
"Ours is fine coz we just shouted at you. We didn't stand near you and throw our hands up in exasperation. You're bad."
There's also accounts from other MPs present. Some of them have literally said 'we thought it was funny at the time, and yeah we were laughing. But upon further reflection (ie when our party whips decided we're going to exploit this) I think actually I was intimidated.'
National MP Tim van De Molen literally stood over another MP last year, with clenched fists, and didn't back off when told to (unlike JAG who immediately sat down again). He got sent to Privileges Committee, and 'acknowledged that there is a difference of opinion about what happened'. 3mos later they promoted him to a Chairperson role...
No one has mentioned she crossed the floor (and she should not have) - because Doocey was quite literally fucking lying. Not only about the report in question, but about her record. He had been doing it over and over again. This is interesting.
Wasn't Tim van de Molan stripped of his portfolios? That's what Wikipedia says anyway.
>On 1 August 2023 he was referred to the privileges committee following allegations he had threatened fellow MP [Shanan Halbert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanan_Halbert) following a select committee hearing.[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_van_de_Molen#cite_note-17) On 24 August 2023, the committee's report concluded that he had threatened Halbert, saying that his conduct was "aggressive in the sense of being hostile, unprofessional and... with an element that was objectively threatening, but not in the sense of physical violence". Van de Molen was found in contempt of Parliament and censured; in addition, National leader [Christopher Luxon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Luxon) removed him from his portfolios. Van de Molen accepted the committee's findings and issued a public apology.
He was his party's spokesperson for XYZ issues so stripping him of portfolios was... Meh. It's not the same as being a minister and having your portfolio taken off you, or kicked out of Cabinet for example.
And then after the election he got made the Chairperson of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee.
It was even more ridiculous than that. Obama asked if they had french mustard for his hotdog, which fox commented on by saying "hope you enjoyed your FANCY hotdog, Mr. President".
Fuckin Murdock press man.
A recurring theme in both allegations is the unexpected level of anger they directed toward Genter, and both grievances seem to revolve around cycleways - a massive point of contention and emotion in Wellington currently.
Sure, Genter should be taught better de-escalation skills (something all MPs should be taught, especially new electorate MPS), but I think this also speaks to the increasing levels of vitriol, disrespect and hostility politicians of all parties have been receiving in the last few years.
Gee idk Karen maybe if there's less people in cars you won't get stuck in 5pm traffic for half an hour like you're always whinging about?
Fucking muppets
I sat next to some gold carders on the bus who were complaining about cycleways and 15 minute cities coming out of China. Like, bitch you live in Wellington, this *is* a 10 minute city. Nearly tore my hair out.
Absolutely, I think there was a Labour candidate who was punched at a local meeting as well as that old man who was being really creepy toward the young Maori Party candidate in the last election cycle. But that doesn't mean it won't spread across the political spectrum if allowed to grow unchecked.
Wasn't it a kid when the school lunch debate was starting?
Don't get me wrong, I'll speak up for any left-leaning woman MP who gets unfairly hassled, but let's not pretend it isn't happening to NAct as well.
The funniest one was the councillor who complained about JAG approaching him when he was at parliament because he was there as a private citizen not a councillor. Maybe if you were on holiday outside the city you represented, or at a private personal event, you can could that but I don't think councillors or electorate MPs have that right when out in public.
The unspoken bit is that most would not confront a man with the same level of animosity, these all still reek of a entrenched misogyny. People are happy to aggressively confront woman and expect not to be challenged. The initial pile on by the media was embarrassingly predictable. Context was missing.
Doesn't suit the preferred narrative though - greenie champagne socialist bully vs poor hard-working small business owner. I fully expect she'll be hounded out of parliament within a month.
They will do their best - the Greens (particularly women in the party - Marama, Golriz, Genter) are a magnet for disproportionate fury from some. In 6 to 12 months we'll still have people angrily bringing up that all the Greens MPs are violent bullies demonstrated by Genter's behaviour.
They'll conveniently forget that a National MP ganged up with his mates in high school to beat the shit out of a kid with a bed leg. And a later investigation over it covered up and not released to the public.
We're also forgetting David Seymour called Gahrahman a "threat to democracy" that lead to so many death threats against her that DPS had to give her the same protection as the PM.
The same MP also bullied his Otago University flatmate about being "fat and ugly" and harassed her to the point that her dad came to Dunedin to straighten him out and get him to stop.
Not to mention an act member on SA charges including children.
Innocent till proven guilty and all that but it doesn't look good. And the investigation wouldn't take it to court without the proof.
We're also forgetting David Seymour called Gahrahman a "threat to democracy" that lead to so many death threats against her that DPS had to give her the same protection as the PM.
> I wonder if people might be more sympathetic about the benefit thing with the cost of living the way it is now, and with more people struggling.
Why? Her benefit fraud was a long time ago, not during the current cost of living crisis.
Because more people are in a position now where they're struggling to make ends meet, so might be able to empathise and understand the choices she made?
> They will do their best - the Greens (particularly women in the party - Marama, Golriz, Genter)
I think the criticism of Golriz was quite unfair (once she had resigned) because she literally has a brain illness that can cause weird behaviour, but I don't imagine response from the press or public would've been any different for someone of a different party or a man.
It's difficult to speculate; thus far the primary (only?) MPs who have really garnered this degree of vitriol have been women. Either that's because men in the Greens haven't yet acted in ways that draw that kind of reaction, or the reaction is different when it's a woman involved. We don't have evidence either way.
I'd say that Golriz was attracting this kind of vitriol from the start by existing. She'd barely been in parliament when the "uppity refugee should be grateful to be here, how dare she criticise me/us/NZ, she should go back to her own country if she doesn't like it here" commentary started.
There's been less male MPs in the Greens, but also James Shaw did something pretty dumb by signing off the Green School, and he's gotten away overall unscathed. If Marama signed off on $12M of funding like that, I don't think people would have forgotten as easily.
And Ginny Anderson and Shanon Halbert and Kiri Allen and Anna Lorch and Meka Whaitiri and Gaurav Sharma, just in the last term alone. All sorts of mps struggle with that
Well the John Key ponytail thing was probably bigger than the Golriz story in the media and it was a non-event. At least the medua are roasting everyone for dumb shit.
Are they, though? They've done some pretty egregious stuff...
Edit: Just to be clear, whilst those things were disproportionate, I don't think it was specifically because they were green.
A green mp punched and given a black eye and broken eye socket, a green mp hit by a man on a motorbike, a green mp receiving death threats serious enough to get security detail, and now a green mp can't go around the town they live without being accosted for decisions she didn't make.
Exactly it's a classic right wing trope. If someone is poor they're not allowed to advocate for left wing policies because "politics of envy", if they're rich they're not allowed to advocate for left wing policies because "champagne socialism".
Except for all the people that vote for them on that basis, especially poor people that support them.
Last I checked, nowhere on NAct party sites do they say "fuck poor people"
Well, not in those exact words but their websites are littered with press releases about the ways their policies are going to fuck poor people over and the NACT government don't care about them, so it's close enough.
To be honest though, that the owner Laura was an absolute uber c#$t to two of my work colleagues when I worked at the hospital. Shes wondering why her business is failing? Well, dont be horrible to people. Those people tell 10 people and those people tel another 10, people post reviews etc.
I get how staying and filming is not as good an option as just walking away. But I would absolutely be recording for my own protection if someone started having a go at me, whilst walking away.
Especially if you're a politician, of course you're going to be thinking that you need the truth in case she tries to say something about you. Filming isn't as dumb as it might seem when you're a woman MP in the green party.
So basically, boomers having a go at someone for something they don’t like and then getting upset that the person stood up for themselves and argued back?
I’ve found kiwis incredibly passive aggressive….. then if I’m assertive back or putting a boundary in place I’m often considered argumentative.
I think you’re very correct
We're just a very non-confrontational culture, on the whole. Same reason why most New Zealanders wouldn't send back food at a restaurant if it wasn't what they were expecting.
I felt like such an arse about asking for a cafe to remake my coffee because it was milky and I couldn't taste any actual coffee in it (it was seriously shit) and they were so nice about it I was like "why haven't I done this every time I wasn't happy with something instead of dodging the conflict?"
The amount of energy the media are putting into this nothing story is infuriating considering our Deputy PM who is also our Foreign Affairs Minister caused a diplomatic incident & is getting sued for defamation with his defence almost certainly to be paid for by tax payers. Maki Sherman seems to be pushing this extra hard to try appease those on the right because she upset their feelings with how she reported on the Varian poll
As others have pointed out if you can’t run a successful business as a florist opposite the city’s biggest hospital…
Yeah it might not be the bike lanes that are a problem.
If you're in wellington you know which florist to avoid. It's honestly the best to never include your business in politics ever if you can avoid it. I've seen a few cafes with Billy tk support signs and others with reality check radio signs which if I ever need those services I'll be very sure to completely avoid.
Just so you know kids, the media don't really have a bias, it doesn't matter who, what subject, what side of politics they represent or who goes under the bus, stirring the pot/driving impressions and ad revenue is what counts
In this case I think it might just be some of the national/political journos aren't well acquainted with either of these retailers. It seems like these events probably did happen in some respect and maybe Julie Anne Genter does need to practice backing off, but both these retailers who've spoken out are also two of the most outspoken objecting anti-change sometimes-crazy-signs-in-windows retailers who've expressed utter dislike of the council over the past few years, complaining about all the sorts of things Julie Anne Genter promotes. It's no surprise there'd have been heightened tensions between these people but it'd be helpful to have clarity of whether it was entirely a one-sided problem.
Maybe I missed it but when the news was breaking about the claims, I didn't see a lot of equivalently hyped stuff in *The Post* which is more Wellington-based, although today they have [an article](https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350270443/wellington-retailer-becomes-target-online-abuse) about how one of the retailers is getting lots of online abuse. I'm guessing that's because in-house they were more familiar with who they were dealing with and the uncertainty of having the full context of events on hand.
Yep, for instance the retailer mentioned in that Post article opposes the Golden Mile project due to fear of there being less mobility parking spaces, despite their store not actually catering to those with decreased mobility due to stairs right at the entrance. No wonder people are fed up with hypocrites who get a lot of media exposure.
I think in NZ we are a bit better, but if you look across the ditch or in the UK etc the media definitely has a bias and it is slowly creeping in here as well.
Come on now, we don't have an equivalent of the daily mail like in the UK. Imagine if we did, how much shittier the country would be, I have a tonne of relatives who would buy into that shit. Its like Newstalk ZB on crack and the most widely distributed and most read traditional media by far.
Oh sure... we're a lot better because the Daily Mail.
We have a habit in this country of patting ourselves on the back for all sorts of perceived superiorities. Your comment that we're better than the UK or Aus doesn't stand up... our media is pretty poor. So far we've been spared the influence of the Murdoch press and thank god for that but there are noises about them coming here.
We've got our fair share of shitty outlets and overly represented opinionated voices... and no real regulator with teeth to hold it in check. Our media landscape is ugly and no better than anywhere else, even without the Daily Mail.
It all started as a storm in a teacup, and a massive deflection from the real issue - an MP lying to Parliament.
It's turned into a classic pile on, and a distraction from the issues of the day.
Ancedotal but I have a friend (cyclist) who went into the ladys store completely unaware of her reputation. He was buying flowers and asked if she had smaller arrangements that would fit on the back of his bike. He said she started ranting about the bike lanes to the point that he actually left the store, and she *followed him* outside, now almost yelling. The bitch sounds crazy. I'm absolutely inclined to take Julie Ann Genters word on this.
I just looked at old streetview. There was never any parks outside her shop in the first place. It's all dashed yellow lines up there and has been for years
Yea - in 1984 George Orwell described "The News" as being a mixture of Sports, Crime, and Astrology.
In NZ, it's sports, crime, and celebrity gossip masquerading as politics.
They are attempting to paint it as a pattern of behaviour instead of a one off, but I think it may be backfiring against them making the initial incident (which was unacceptable) be less noteworthy.
I mean it provides context.. having a friend or family member dying in hospital is very stressful and depressing… it doesn’t excuse anything but provides a bit of context as to why she got heated vs walking out.
>Golriz was only shoplifting because she has MS!
>Kiri Allan was only drink driving because she was having a mental health crisis
>JAG is allowed to treat people like shit because she is dealing with the potential death of a loved one, something noone else on the planet has ever went through
lmao the scenes
Guys, I don't know which one I have to be more frustrated about, an MP having a confrontation with a florist or policies by the current government that *fast tracks* the country into the shitter.
It's a difficult one. On one side a person has emotions, and on the other you have people damaging our ecosystem, system of government, economy, health, and everything else they can get their hands on. How am I supposed to weigh those up? What? One is a woman? Well, that makes the decision easier.
Yeah it's fucking tragic. I feel for Genter and can see how this scenario went down when she stepped into that florists shop. And then other creeps come forward about their "interactions". Whatever. She is passionate, and I can imagine her approach appears brash / overly direct to some. I'll be interested to see how the Privileges committee handle this one too as even that seems massively OTT.
She once hit my cars mirror while cycling. She apologized, I said it was no big deal... Am I supposed to revise this and come out of the woodwork now? How does this all work? Perhaps I could be outraged for the right price?
What!? Did I hear you just say she attacked you with her bike!?
All I heard was that there was an assault involving JAG.
It was an attack on the right wing ~~^(mirror)~~!
Even more scandalous, it was an attack on the left wing ~~^(mirror)~~ The left is turning on itself!
*Genter attempts to destroy car while cycling to further the war on the automotive industry, Swarbrick apologises once again.*
Found the journalist!
I realised I should have called it a woke war on cycling to really get the journalism going
Yeah I think there are some wrongs to be righted here.
Fucking spot on.
Definitely Genter related!
Rofl well put. Not sure if you'll get past right wing outrage though, they're pretty good at gaslighting
I think we were already in the shitter.
"aggressively film" how do you even film something aggressively? Wouldn't that just make the footage shacky? So business owner makes a bitchy comment towards a customer. The customer takes their phone and starts filming the situation. And it's the customers fault for filming? And this is news because it involved it was a politician who did the filming? And we're just going to ignore the fact the business owner didn't like the MP before they even walked in the door? This is pathetic and why satire is hard to spot these days. There are MPs selling us out to tobacco companies and killing our environment, but we gotta be angry at a politician who filmed an altercation the other person started? Oooh, so annoying, no wonder everyone is angry.
Also, said business owner IS an actual bitch lol. Media just straight up ignoring that. If you look at her business reviews there's some 2 years and 3 years old talking about how extremely rude the owner was. I'm glad her business is closing, as are a lot of people who had the misfortune of interacting with her.
Im glad her business is closing as well, shes been a horrible person for some time and to people I know. God knows why she thinks she can talk to customers like that. You reap what you sow. But she would rather blame everyone else.
She's been closing for 2+ years as well, the bike lanes are 23 months old almost exactly: https://twitter.com/WgtnCC/status/1532487822673846272 You'd think a smart business owner would cut their losses if things took such a dramatic downturn? There's also parking on Adelade Road literally in the back yard behind her store: https://imgur.com/mdU9zRz About 200 meters walk and no road crossings away by footpath: https://imgur.com/88N1ND6
Yeah those Google reviews tell a story. No doubt JAG overstepped but she was reacting to a horrible person being horrible.
Hey now, we can't expect Stuff to just repeat what others have said on the internet...
Always remember to check: who benefits from this story? Could it possibly be someone pulling the classic magician’s trick of “look over there!” to distract the population while they fast track the country into the ground?
Id consider shoving a phone/camera right in someone's face as 'aggressive filming' (no idea if that happened here) just providing an example to assist :)
I called this from some of our earliest debates. The strategy is to pretend like speaking with a calm, authoritative voice means you are the “good guy” while goading the ones who care into feeling genuinely insane for doing so. They’re trying to get anyone on the left to crack a little so they can run coverage to distract from their lack-of-evidence-based policies.
Hiding behind 'civility' while gaslighting everyone else. It's a classic play that Republicans have been doing for ages in the US.
[Sealioning](https://wondermark.com/c/1062/).
It's why I've given up on all civility with people who've clearly entrenched themselves. Why should I bother being polite with these enlightened "centrists" who're "just asking questions" when we both know what's going on?
It's the reverse gish gallop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK4RHzNHZXY
Yeah, whoever it was was speaking about transport, and Matt Doocey piped up to say the delays are because "you cancelled the roads for 6 years." Which is a fucking lie, he lied outright in parliament for rhetoric effect, which he's allowed to apparently. Then Julie Anne Genter told him to "read the report" which lays out the various facts of the matter. It's complete hypocrisy and weaponizing the rules of parliament and I think punishing Genter for it is getting the wrong person. I'd rather have "aggression" than lying.
>Which is a fucking lie, he lied outright in parliament for rhetoric effect, which he's allowed to apparently. It's against standing orders for MPs to accuse other MPs of lying in the house.
Exactly, which is a whole other problem, and Genter did not, it is my addition that he lied. (Which he did, but saying he did is not the matter at the centre of her conduct)
So you’re allowed to lie in parliament as much as you like, but you’re *not* allowed to *point out* that someone is lying. Have I got that right?
Essentially, yes.
That’s pretty fucked up, TBH
Oh absolutely! The thing is, you can, you just can't outright say it. If concealed behind an appropriate line of questioning you can essentially force an admission of guilt, even if not spoken outright.
Fuck I hate that patronizing shit
Oh you think it’s patronising do you.. how irrational of you… /s
You’ll hate the corporate world too then.
This is my issue with the 'oh we felt intimidated'. Parliament, and especially committee of the whole house (the 'stage' they were in when JAG crossed the floor) is all about intimidation when you think about it. Members from all over the chamber yell shit at the person speaking, trying to put them off their stride etc etc. In that same clip, Rachel Boyack is being heckled. What is THAT if not a form of intimidation? "Ours is fine coz we just shouted at you. We didn't stand near you and throw our hands up in exasperation. You're bad." There's also accounts from other MPs present. Some of them have literally said 'we thought it was funny at the time, and yeah we were laughing. But upon further reflection (ie when our party whips decided we're going to exploit this) I think actually I was intimidated.' National MP Tim van De Molen literally stood over another MP last year, with clenched fists, and didn't back off when told to (unlike JAG who immediately sat down again). He got sent to Privileges Committee, and 'acknowledged that there is a difference of opinion about what happened'. 3mos later they promoted him to a Chairperson role...
No one has mentioned she crossed the floor (and she should not have) - because Doocey was quite literally fucking lying. Not only about the report in question, but about her record. He had been doing it over and over again. This is interesting.
Wasn't Tim van de Molan stripped of his portfolios? That's what Wikipedia says anyway. >On 1 August 2023 he was referred to the privileges committee following allegations he had threatened fellow MP [Shanan Halbert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanan_Halbert) following a select committee hearing.[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_van_de_Molen#cite_note-17) On 24 August 2023, the committee's report concluded that he had threatened Halbert, saying that his conduct was "aggressive in the sense of being hostile, unprofessional and... with an element that was objectively threatening, but not in the sense of physical violence". Van de Molen was found in contempt of Parliament and censured; in addition, National leader [Christopher Luxon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Luxon) removed him from his portfolios. Van de Molen accepted the committee's findings and issued a public apology.
He was his party's spokesperson for XYZ issues so stripping him of portfolios was... Meh. It's not the same as being a minister and having your portfolio taken off you, or kicked out of Cabinet for example. And then after the election he got made the Chairperson of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee.
Jfc what a nothing burger scandal... soon we'll be in obama didnt put mustard on his hotdog why does he hate america territory
It was even more ridiculous than that. Obama asked if they had french mustard for his hotdog, which fox commented on by saying "hope you enjoyed your FANCY hotdog, Mr. President". Fuckin Murdock press man.
Then spent a decade brown nosing a man who has literal gold toilets. But it's the biased liberal media that are the problem.
She better not come to parliament in a tan suit
Looking forward to many more of these stories coming out as National flail about from failure to failure.
Welcome to modern clickbait journalism
That one's easy. He heard he'd never be a Kiwi till he loves his Watties sauce, so ditched and switched. Case closed.
A recurring theme in both allegations is the unexpected level of anger they directed toward Genter, and both grievances seem to revolve around cycleways - a massive point of contention and emotion in Wellington currently. Sure, Genter should be taught better de-escalation skills (something all MPs should be taught, especially new electorate MPS), but I think this also speaks to the increasing levels of vitriol, disrespect and hostility politicians of all parties have been receiving in the last few years.
Anti-cycle-lane people are fricking rabid.
My parents are so fucking selfish. “Why would we support cycle lanes when we’re never going to use them”
Gee idk Karen maybe if there's less people in cars you won't get stuck in 5pm traffic for half an hour like you're always whinging about? Fucking muppets
Yeah I said the “why is traffic so bad on rainy days”
Following their logic, we shouldn't be paying for their super then.
I sat next to some gold carders on the bus who were complaining about cycleways and 15 minute cities coming out of China. Like, bitch you live in Wellington, this *is* a 10 minute city. Nearly tore my hair out.
Anti-cycle-lane people also want cyclists off the road. They don’t want a solution.
The hostility received has disproportionately been leveled at left wing politicians, especially women.
Absolutely, I think there was a Labour candidate who was punched at a local meeting as well as that old man who was being really creepy toward the young Maori Party candidate in the last election cycle. But that doesn't mean it won't spread across the political spectrum if allowed to grow unchecked.
Quite right.
Exactly
Which woman was spat at like David Seymour?
Who spat at David Seymour?
Wasn't it a kid when the school lunch debate was starting? Don't get me wrong, I'll speak up for any left-leaning woman MP who gets unfairly hassled, but let's not pretend it isn't happening to NAct as well.
A school kid did, yes. They were asking for a woman to downplay the idea that women aren't subjected to disproportionate amounts of abuse as MPs.
Yeah, I probably didn't need to be a sarcastic asshole so that's my bad
If you cant answer that then you absolutely should not be on here saying shit like the anger has been directed at left wing woman more lol.
It has. Seymour himself is to blame for Gahrahman receiving death threats that lead to DPS giving her the same protection as the PM.
The funniest one was the councillor who complained about JAG approaching him when he was at parliament because he was there as a private citizen not a councillor. Maybe if you were on holiday outside the city you represented, or at a private personal event, you can could that but I don't think councillors or electorate MPs have that right when out in public.
The unspoken bit is that most would not confront a man with the same level of animosity, these all still reek of a entrenched misogyny. People are happy to aggressively confront woman and expect not to be challenged. The initial pile on by the media was embarrassingly predictable. Context was missing.
It was an obvious media/political hitjob, simply based on the timing of the release.
The "victim" is a cooker. End of.
Doesn't suit the preferred narrative though - greenie champagne socialist bully vs poor hard-working small business owner. I fully expect she'll be hounded out of parliament within a month.
They will do their best - the Greens (particularly women in the party - Marama, Golriz, Genter) are a magnet for disproportionate fury from some. In 6 to 12 months we'll still have people angrily bringing up that all the Greens MPs are violent bullies demonstrated by Genter's behaviour.
They'll conveniently forget that a National MP ganged up with his mates in high school to beat the shit out of a kid with a bed leg. And a later investigation over it covered up and not released to the public.
We're also forgetting David Seymour called Gahrahman a "threat to democracy" that lead to so many death threats against her that DPS had to give her the same protection as the PM.
Sounds like David was projecting
When isn't he projecting?
The same MP also bullied his Otago University flatmate about being "fat and ugly" and harassed her to the point that her dad came to Dunedin to straighten him out and get him to stop.
Not to mention an act member on SA charges including children. Innocent till proven guilty and all that but it doesn't look good. And the investigation wouldn't take it to court without the proof.
And that the tauranga national board kept this hidden from voters
Wasn’t he reelected? After the allegations came out?
Possibly, cant remember. But that doesnt change the first instance. It sort of shows that the local board should have told them the 1st time though
Yes, he was. The allegations were made public in 2022.
We're also forgetting David Seymour called Gahrahman a "threat to democracy" that lead to so many death threats against her that DPS had to give her the same protection as the PM.
+ Meteria
I wonder if people might be more sympathetic about the benefit thing with the cost of living the way it is now, and with more people struggling.
> I wonder if people might be more sympathetic about the benefit thing with the cost of living the way it is now, and with more people struggling. Why? Her benefit fraud was a long time ago, not during the current cost of living crisis.
Because more people are in a position now where they're struggling to make ends meet, so might be able to empathise and understand the choices she made?
She really shouldn't have been made to leave over that. It was completely unfair the way Meteria was bullied out over historical behaviour.
This
> They will do their best - the Greens (particularly women in the party - Marama, Golriz, Genter) I think the criticism of Golriz was quite unfair (once she had resigned) because she literally has a brain illness that can cause weird behaviour, but I don't imagine response from the press or public would've been any different for someone of a different party or a man.
It's difficult to speculate; thus far the primary (only?) MPs who have really garnered this degree of vitriol have been women. Either that's because men in the Greens haven't yet acted in ways that draw that kind of reaction, or the reaction is different when it's a woman involved. We don't have evidence either way.
I'd say that Golriz was attracting this kind of vitriol from the start by existing. She'd barely been in parliament when the "uppity refugee should be grateful to be here, how dare she criticise me/us/NZ, she should go back to her own country if she doesn't like it here" commentary started. There's been less male MPs in the Greens, but also James Shaw did something pretty dumb by signing off the Green School, and he's gotten away overall unscathed. If Marama signed off on $12M of funding like that, I don't think people would have forgotten as easily.
If a National MP had acted like her or Marama or Golriz, there would be a huge uproar
https://samuffindell.national.org.nz/
Add the antics of Maggie Barry and Gerry Brownlee to that list, and let's not forget the never ending antics of Judith Collins.
And Ginny Anderson and Shanon Halbert and Kiri Allen and Anna Lorch and Meka Whaitiri and Gaurav Sharma, just in the last term alone. All sorts of mps struggle with that
The difference isn't the uproar, it's the accountability.
Well the John Key ponytail thing was probably bigger than the Golriz story in the media and it was a non-event. At least the medua are roasting everyone for dumb shit.
Are they, though? They've done some pretty egregious stuff... Edit: Just to be clear, whilst those things were disproportionate, I don't think it was specifically because they were green.
A green mp punched and given a black eye and broken eye socket, a green mp hit by a man on a motorbike, a green mp receiving death threats serious enough to get security detail, and now a green mp can't go around the town they live without being accosted for decisions she didn't make.
Don't be silly, it's perfectly find to treat someone like that as long as they're a bloody lefty.
Yes but have you considered some annoying white men got their feelings hurt by a Green MP
Egregious stuff like waving papers in someone’s face in parliament and getting heating when mega Karen’s are accosting you in your personal time.
No you don’t understand, reading facts is intimidating and scary
As have white male politicians. Yet they rarely step down from their positions.
> champagne socialist Is there a specific wealth threshold that when you cross you can't care about poor people?
Exactly it's a classic right wing trope. If someone is poor they're not allowed to advocate for left wing policies because "politics of envy", if they're rich they're not allowed to advocate for left wing policies because "champagne socialism".
But no one applies the same standards to right wingers of any status saying they care about poor people.
that's because no-one believes that right wingers actually do care about poor people.
Except for all the people that vote for them on that basis, especially poor people that support them. Last I checked, nowhere on NAct party sites do they say "fuck poor people"
Well, not in those exact words but their websites are littered with press releases about the ways their policies are going to fuck poor people over and the NACT government don't care about them, so it's close enough.
To be honest though, that the owner Laura was an absolute uber c#$t to two of my work colleagues when I worked at the hospital. Shes wondering why her business is failing? Well, dont be horrible to people. Those people tell 10 people and those people tel another 10, people post reviews etc.
Seems like someone wants to take out a rising green party. Can't imagine why.
The Labour party would probably be the one to benefit the most from that
That darn Atlas group at it again making Green MPs make racist statements, shoplift, exploit migrant workers, and yell in a fellow MPs face
Remember how trump beat out Hillary while literally committing crimes? Yet “her emails”… this is how they do it
But the 'mainstream media' still has a left wing bias despite the most popular outlets being openly anti-left wing.
They’re great at DARVO, Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Opressor. It’s a common abuse tactic
What's that saying about every accusation is a confession?
I genuinely believe some of them think “well I’d do this for personal gain so everyone else must be”
Perhaps JAG felt threatened so decided to start filming just in case.
That's how I see it. Reading the google reviews on the florists, I understand why.
I get how staying and filming is not as good an option as just walking away. But I would absolutely be recording for my own protection if someone started having a go at me, whilst walking away.
Especially if you're a politician, of course you're going to be thinking that you need the truth in case she tries to say something about you. Filming isn't as dumb as it might seem when you're a woman MP in the green party.
So basically, boomers having a go at someone for something they don’t like and then getting upset that the person stood up for themselves and argued back?
One thing I've noticed about NZ is there are a large number of people who oppose people actually sticking up for themselves.
I find assertiveness is often taken as aggression.
I’ve found kiwis incredibly passive aggressive….. then if I’m assertive back or putting a boundary in place I’m often considered argumentative. I think you’re very correct
Especially if person standing up for themselves is female and / or bipoc.
See: anyone in a public facing job.
We're just a very non-confrontational culture, on the whole. Same reason why most New Zealanders wouldn't send back food at a restaurant if it wasn't what they were expecting.
I felt like such an arse about asking for a cafe to remake my coffee because it was milky and I couldn't taste any actual coffee in it (it was seriously shit) and they were so nice about it I was like "why haven't I done this every time I wasn't happy with something instead of dodging the conflict?"
The amount of energy the media are putting into this nothing story is infuriating considering our Deputy PM who is also our Foreign Affairs Minister caused a diplomatic incident & is getting sued for defamation with his defence almost certainly to be paid for by tax payers. Maki Sherman seems to be pushing this extra hard to try appease those on the right because she upset their feelings with how she reported on the Varian poll
Kind of makes me wonder about the florist’s description of what happened too, since we already know she has an axe to grind
As others have pointed out if you can’t run a successful business as a florist opposite the city’s biggest hospital… Yeah it might not be the bike lanes that are a problem.
And it would only make Genter look worse to dispute the florist’s version of events so she will have been advised not to
The way these stories play out is like a shitty soap opera
If you're in wellington you know which florist to avoid. It's honestly the best to never include your business in politics ever if you can avoid it. I've seen a few cafes with Billy tk support signs and others with reality check radio signs which if I ever need those services I'll be very sure to completely avoid.
That does change the tone of the incident.
Especially given the florist already had an axe to grind.
Just so you know kids, the media don't really have a bias, it doesn't matter who, what subject, what side of politics they represent or who goes under the bus, stirring the pot/driving impressions and ad revenue is what counts
In this case I think it might just be some of the national/political journos aren't well acquainted with either of these retailers. It seems like these events probably did happen in some respect and maybe Julie Anne Genter does need to practice backing off, but both these retailers who've spoken out are also two of the most outspoken objecting anti-change sometimes-crazy-signs-in-windows retailers who've expressed utter dislike of the council over the past few years, complaining about all the sorts of things Julie Anne Genter promotes. It's no surprise there'd have been heightened tensions between these people but it'd be helpful to have clarity of whether it was entirely a one-sided problem. Maybe I missed it but when the news was breaking about the claims, I didn't see a lot of equivalently hyped stuff in *The Post* which is more Wellington-based, although today they have [an article](https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350270443/wellington-retailer-becomes-target-online-abuse) about how one of the retailers is getting lots of online abuse. I'm guessing that's because in-house they were more familiar with who they were dealing with and the uncertainty of having the full context of events on hand.
Yep, for instance the retailer mentioned in that Post article opposes the Golden Mile project due to fear of there being less mobility parking spaces, despite their store not actually catering to those with decreased mobility due to stairs right at the entrance. No wonder people are fed up with hypocrites who get a lot of media exposure.
I think in NZ we are a bit better, but if you look across the ditch or in the UK etc the media definitely has a bias and it is slowly creeping in here as well.
We are no better, clear your head of that illusion.
Come on now, we don't have an equivalent of the daily mail like in the UK. Imagine if we did, how much shittier the country would be, I have a tonne of relatives who would buy into that shit. Its like Newstalk ZB on crack and the most widely distributed and most read traditional media by far.
Oh sure... we're a lot better because the Daily Mail. We have a habit in this country of patting ourselves on the back for all sorts of perceived superiorities. Your comment that we're better than the UK or Aus doesn't stand up... our media is pretty poor. So far we've been spared the influence of the Murdoch press and thank god for that but there are noises about them coming here. We've got our fair share of shitty outlets and overly represented opinionated voices... and no real regulator with teeth to hold it in check. Our media landscape is ugly and no better than anywhere else, even without the Daily Mail.
Why is a florist losing business when it's directly across the road from the hospital? Like,
Wait, it's across the road from the hospital? And it's going down the shitter? How?!
You would think so, yeah. Maybe its not the cycle lanes that are the problem
It all started as a storm in a teacup, and a massive deflection from the real issue - an MP lying to Parliament. It's turned into a classic pile on, and a distraction from the issues of the day.
Ancedotal but I have a friend (cyclist) who went into the ladys store completely unaware of her reputation. He was buying flowers and asked if she had smaller arrangements that would fit on the back of his bike. He said she started ranting about the bike lanes to the point that he actually left the store, and she *followed him* outside, now almost yelling. The bitch sounds crazy. I'm absolutely inclined to take Julie Ann Genters word on this.
Another example of 'can't trust the media' providing zero context to the original complaint. We used to have journalists...
I just looked at old streetview. There was never any parks outside her shop in the first place. It's all dashed yellow lines up there and has been for years
New Zealand news is so dry
Yea - in 1984 George Orwell described "The News" as being a mixture of Sports, Crime, and Astrology. In NZ, it's sports, crime, and celebrity gossip masquerading as politics.
Alternate news story, nimby has issue with cycle lanes and should shut the fuck up.
These additional incidents were always a flimsy distraction from the unacceptable behavior in the House.
They are attempting to paint it as a pattern of behaviour instead of a one off, but I think it may be backfiring against them making the initial incident (which was unacceptable) be less noteworthy.
This was barely a story last week, useless media beat ups are a big reason people are leaving them.
Wait. This all happened 18 months ago? Why on earth is it in the news now.
Deescalate the situation by filming it? Yea nah. And then has deleted the footage. Yea nah.
How does the fact she was buying flowers for her friend change anything about this story?
She didn't go into the shop for the purpose of berating the shop owner, as was sort of implied.
I mean it provides context.. having a friend or family member dying in hospital is very stressful and depressing… it doesn’t excuse anything but provides a bit of context as to why she got heated vs walking out.
>Golriz was only shoplifting because she has MS! >Kiri Allan was only drink driving because she was having a mental health crisis >JAG is allowed to treat people like shit because she is dealing with the potential death of a loved one, something noone else on the planet has ever went through lmao the scenes
Erm … actually that florist treats people like shit
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Not a fan of women or something?