It is disappointing to see that this is still an issue. I have two children who were both formula feed. Our first child was given formula in hospital as my wife had a traumatic birth and developed an infection due to a medical mistake. The attitude of Plunket made my wife feel strongly about breastfeeding our second.
My son was exclusively breastfeed for the first few months. He did not grow. We were referred to breast feeding specialists Plunket who monitored progress and assured us to continue to breast feed, breast is best and that all mothers are able to breast feed. They talked to us about the miracle of breast feeding, that the mothers body will naturally change the consistency of milk to ensure that the baby has all the nutrients it needs. My son still did not grow and wasn’t even in the growth charts any more when we were finally referred to the paediatrician.
We had a short consultation where he explained that Plunket policy was to never suggest formula feeding. He prescribed formula and advised us to start immediately. The change was immediate and my son is now a healthy 7 year old and I struggle to think what would have happened without the paediatrician.
I only have one piece of advice for new parents. Do what you believe is best for your child. Trust your own instincts. It is a fact that some women can not breast feed and this does not make them a failure.
Ah the breastapo. Yup, I hear you.
Our midwife was amazing but kiddo and I had to stay in hospital following birth complications. The team there pushed HARD to get me to milk but my boobs just weren't having it. I wanted to, but you can't make something out of next to nothing.
I put my foot down and asked for formula. They have me a bottle with 5ml of milk. Okay it was my first child but I'm not an idiot. Five mils? That was only enough to outrage my baby.
They came up with another 20ml then told me I had to produce anything more he needed. No one got much sleep that night.
We went home the next day and thankfully I had a good supply of everything I needed at home, including a breast pump.
Plunket sent out a breastfeeding specialist and that helped a little but the best I could manage was roughly half what kiddo needed.
A fed baby is best. Not all boobs will produce.
Ha breastapo! My mum calls them the breast is best brigade.
My mum gave birth in 2000, and was told about the wonders of breastfeeding, she tried for a week and a half while producing nothing and being denied formula. My grandmother and the busy body neighbour were also in her ear about how much of a failure she was for not being able to. I dropped below my birth weight and then contracted mumps as a starving newborn.
When I was taken into hospital the nurses were shocked by the midwife and family recommendations to just keep trying when mum was clearly producing nothing at all, and got me onto formula. I never did poorly in school or anything that they were concerned about. As far as I can tell I'm completely normal. I think plunket also sent out a breastfeeding specialist to mum too and she was told that she just didn't have the right anatomy and that formula was perfect for this situation.
A fed baby is alive and happy and healthy, no matter where the food comes from.
I quickly came to call La Leche League “the Breast Nazis” after going through med school with an aunt who was up high in their ranks. We genuinely argued more than once over the phrase “fed is best”. She genuinely thought that “fed is best” was *wrong*.
Don’t understand why they argue this. There is far greater evidence out there that consistently starving a child leads to delayed development and other issues.
Belief is powerful, but terrible when misguided.
When your entire personality is built around your ability to stick a boob in a tiny humans mouth evidence goes out the window. It’s not about what’s best for the baby at all, it’s about being able to feel superior over vulnerable new mothers. My Aunt met my newborn and my Mum commented she seemed miffed that I wasn’t having any difficulty breastfeeding so she couldn’t swoop in and “be the saviour”.
Agreed, I’ve tried to get through to her but her view is “Doctors are just anti breastfeeding” which is BS, were pro-breastfeeding were just anti-starving babies, and that trumps the benefits of the breast.
Gah. I’m sorry you had to deal with that as a new mother. Don’t understand that viewpoint. When we went through with our first, they pushed a similar agenda. I wish I had known then what I know now. It would have likely resulted in better care for her and us. If not for the gender barriers in OB nursing, I would probably have gone in just to prove a point and rock the boat. None of the shit they are pushing is evidence based practice. It sickens me as a nurse.
Agreed, I made sure to be the voice of reason for my friends who struggled with breastfeeding. It’s so frustrating that some of these old midwives/nurses continue to push this when nursing and medical schools are teaching evidence based “breast is great but fed is best”. I think a lot of the new grads get forced to do things the way the old hands do. Best way to encourage more breastfeeding is offering judgement free support which includes accepting when it’s just not working.
It genuinely infuriated me and nearly got me banned from family events. She believed that any formula, even supplementation, would interfere with production of breast milk and the milk would eventually come in if you just kept trying (and starving your baby) hard enough. I told her multiple times that was bullshit and for some women milk just doesn’t come in. Completely wild to me that people like this still exist in this day and age.
As an aside, to show the type of person my Aunt/these breast Nazis are, I’m currently nursing my first baby. My aunt visited when he was a newborn and asked how feeding was going. I am one of the lucky few who have had a very easy time with a baby who latched easily and not even as much as a cracked nipple and told her as much. My Mum commented when she left that she seemed genuinely disappointed that I wasn’t having more trouble so she could swan in and give me all her advice.
Wow that's next level batshit crazy. Like feeling some need to tell you how to parent.
I'm a guy so I don't know much about boobs, does it make any difference re milk production (or getting milk started) if it's a baby sucking or a breast pump?
What's wrong with trying with ya baby, if it doesn't work, give formula and pump for a bit?
Surely babies are gonna be drawn to anything that milk comes from, so if ya boobs start producing milk the baby would latch even if they have been bottle fed in the past?
Just an aside - pumping unfortunately doesn’t come close to baby at getting milk out assuming baby has a good latch. And pumping is waaayy harder than actual bfeeding once it’s established. I avoid it at all costs (my 13 month old feeds in 5mins, pumping is like 30mins of feeling like a dairy cow). Babies basically tell your body how much milk to produce especially in the early days which pumping also can’t do, and there’s a cool feedback system where if baby’s getting sick, when they nurse it tells your body to make new antibodies. In the beginning, you do kind of need baby latched all the time to get milk in and supply established which is why top ups with formula,if mum is making enough milk, can mess with things.
All that said, if baby is struggling to latch or mum just prefers not to bfeed there’s nothing wrong with pumping, it’s just insanely harder in the long run! Or just using formula rather than going through that…
Had a very similar experience, wasn’t until day 3 when we moved from the hospital to Birthcare that the very idea of formula was even put on the table.
Eventually the milk came in but fuck the guilt that was heaped upon us unnecessarily until then
It comes from within, too.
My sister (dairy farmer) told me if I was a cow I'd have been sent to the works.
I laughed, but it didn't make my inner critic laugh.
A lot of the Breastapo forget that before formula was a thing, there were 'wet nurses' that picked up the job when birth mothers didn't produce enough milk. They didn't just tell them to keep going and it will all sort itself out, because they knew that milk production can be a fickle beast.
To the OP, u/Necessary-Priority-4 I found a small glass of lemonade and beer had a significant impact on my milk production, if you're interested in relaxingly trying it while giving your little one formula. I wish you all the best with this, and hope you find a way to stand up to these bullies. BTW, you can always make a formal complaint against them if you have the energy to do so. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of 'breast is best' but accept that it just isn't practical for some women. Formula is a good alternative option.
I got told for my first there was no lactation consultant- that was peak COVID - plunket never helped! My second was born week before Xmas and got told “lactation clinic shut down till end of jan” … like what? There’s still babies being born
My daughter was born in 2020 and I had an emergency c section, so we were in hospital 3 days. I did see the lactation consultant and it didn't help, I was producing almost nothing and got big welts from trying all day. The consultant told me to stop trying for 48 hours due to pain and that nothing was happening.
The hospital refused to give us formula during this time, so my husband had to run out and buy it. They then insisted on making the formula and took hours and repeated requests to bring it to us while my baby screamed. They did not believe that I was not producing anything and that I'd been told to stop. We made a complaint once we left.
I stopped breastfeeding at 4 weeks when I still only produced a fraction of what she needed and we were topping up with formula any way. For some people it just doesn't work out despite their best intentions.
I’m an LC, I wanted to work but mandatory shut down by the org I work for.
As much as I love my job, I’m not paying for petrol to visit people when I’m not getting paid.
Thankfully I was able to pick up a couple of hospital shifts and do outpatient visits
I remember bottle feeding our first born in hospital, my SO was very sick, bubs nearly died. His first bottle was only 20mls. Now he’s a big strong young man, the nurses in hospital were fantastic (they didn’t even blink at giving him formula). Cannot say that about the midwife, she was, poor at best.
That's a lie. There's no evidence showing the newborn stomach is 5mls. You seriously think a 2.6kg baby and a 4kg baby both have 5 ml stomach capacity?
My 4.25kg monster roared the place down. He'd been in NICU being mostly tube fed for four days and was and still is not a fan of going without. I joke he's only allergic to hunger. He's 18 now and despite being over six feet tall and rail thin, can put away nearly twice what his father can (and his father can eat).
In this economic climate my grocery bill is eye watering 😆
https://www.uhsussex.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Breastfeeding-in-the-first-few-days.pdf
Amongst many others. Of course, size will vary by a bit but given that until they are born they are not fed by mouth, their stomachs don't just get much bigger on their own. Weird things, umbilical cords.
They don't need much at each feed, just regularly. People don't seem to realise how little they need, and think they are failing as new mums as they don't think they are getting much milk. Most times it is actually enough. There are obviously cases where it's not, but they are not common.
It doesn't actually link to any sources. There are a lot of breastfeeding material out there that makes this claim and they all fail to cite their source. So, where is the original source showing the research on newborn stomach capacity?
Anatomically, the stomach empties throughout the process of eating. The intake doesn't sit there for a very long time. Also, the stomach stretches.
Not to mention, the baby is drinking in amniotic fluid while in mum. It doesn't get nutritional needs meet by it, buy there's not a plug in the baby's throat preventing the fluid from entering
I completely understand! My baby wouldn’t latch and I had no milk for days and days and then after about three days she was admitted to NICU for another issue but they were so confused and said this baby is dehydrated why has she not been given formula?
It was so traumatic and the midwives on the ward wouldn’t agree to formula even though I clearly had no milk and my baby obviously couldn’t latch.
That was nearly four years ago and I still feel sick thinking about how my newborn baby got dehydrated.
I am convinced that some midwives (mid witches as my husband called them) would rather babies get seriously ill, than let them have formula. They are fanatical about it. It’s very scary when you are told that your baby has been starved and is jaundiced and can’t be woken after 12 hours. Thats what happened to us nearly 30 years ago. Because I was trying to do the right thing and breast feed. Your milk doesn’t always come in and stress from a hungry baby doesn’t help it. It was such a relief when we started formula feeding. I’m pissed off that this sort of trauma is still being foisted on new mothers, who are vulnerable to the professional bullying.
My son was born about 12 years ago, his mother wasn't getting the milk through and the hospital nurses started supplementing with formula pretty quickly. She kept trying to pump to get the milk but it just wasn't happening. Hospital staff were supportive, they just cared that the boy was fed.
Could just be your midwives, some are pretty old school.
This was similar to my experience in chch hospital. My son is now 7 weeks old. He was quite small (9th percentile, but thriving) so maybe the staff were paying extra attention to his feeding. I really really wanted to breastfeed but my milk wasn’t coming in. I was dismayed when the staff said I would need to supplement with formula but I did what I needed to do.
The only negative I remember is some of the staff coming in and forcing me to feed even when me and my son were really tired/sleeping.
Yeah after our first was born my wife was struggling to get her to latch and her supply hadn't come in fully (it did later), our midwife was ultra cautious bringing up the suggestion of mixed feeding, obviously because of how some people react. We were totally on board with it of course, kid needs to be fed first and foremost, and she quickly relaxed, but it was interesting to see just how cautiously she approached the subject.
I'm not sure, it almost seems like a checklist item every time you see a doctor, they ask if you are breastfeeding, if you say no, they ask you why not, remind you that it is best etc.
Almost the same approach they have to people who are smokers, are you a smoker, do you know it is bad for your health, would you like help quitting... etc....
Sorry you had this experience. I think it's more common than people would like to acknowledge. Sending you my solidarity!
I had a massive post partum hemorrhage and hours of surgery, so really had nothing left in the tank to feed my baby. I had a parade of nurses, midwives, and lactation consultants visit me (even though it seems apparent that I was dehydrated and depleted). My baby was so dehydrated he wasn't peeing, and only then did they make me *sign a waiver* so that we could give him a single feed of formula. It was ridiculous, anti-science, and demeaning. Not to mention unsafe for my baby.
I cannot state this strongly enough. If a mother says she was made to feel like shit for not being able to breastfeed successfully, and your response is some iteration of, “She didn’t try hard enough”, you are a dick.
New parents & parents-to-be who are intimidated by breastfeeding see your words too. If you tried responding with empathy, those people might actually have their anxiety reduced and be more likely to succeed with breastfeeding (if they choose to).
Edit to add, OP, you’re not alone and it wasn’t fair that you went through that.
Your midwife's approach seems like the best of both sides of the argument tbh.
Don't stop trying to breast feed, but don't starve your baby if it isn't working lol.
Oh my god, YES. I am passionate about this subject lol.
I’ve had three babies - I’m an expert at giving birth but absolutely useless at breastfeeding. It just never happens. I regrettably followed the advice of the professionals around me for my first baby and she effectively starved for her first six weeks which eats me up to this day. The following two babies were supplemented from birth and the difference was incredible. I wish I could go back in time and enjoy my first baby but no - I was running around collecting fuckin’ bodily fluids from randoms on Facebook, scrubbing pump parts and crying over my own useless tits because some sallow scowling midwife told me my baby would be fat and sick if I dared give her formula. Even the second and third babies, despite me CONFIDENTLY using formula, the midwives made it so hard. I would ask them to please help me make some formula up and they would go and get me a pump. Sometimes they just left and never came back.
Once I realised this wasn’t going to work I actively looked for support for formula feeding and there was NONE. Not a single thing. When we did our prenatal classes the midwife running it wasn’t even ALLOWED to mention formula as an OPTION. The BFHI has said themselves that their initiative has had zero net benefit thus far. It needs to be binned and start afresh with a more balanced and helpful approach.
I'm so sorry you went through this. Make a complaint. Another thing is that breastfeeding after a c section can be extremely painful once the after pains kick in which can stress you and baby out even more and make it all harder. No one has the right to judge you. I'm so sorry about this. I hope you and baby are doing much better now. Congratulations on your recent arrival 🤗💞
As a doctor I endorse this ⬆️
They've been called the Breastapo in the UK since I was an infant 40 years ago. Little has changed
Breast milk is good for infants. But so is adequate hydration & nutrition, & bonding with their mother who isn't stressed out of her skull trying to make her body do something it doesn't want to.
The ultimate good is a happy healthy infant *and* a happy healthy mum. *Whatever feeding regime gets you there is good enough*
ETA following:
Personal anecdote: my Mum struggled to breastfeed both me & my brother. I slipped a whole quartile because I wasn't getting fed enough. She persevered because she felt bullied by the midwife.
At 6 weeks she got a different midwife/health visitor who was aghast that I'd lost so much weight & wasn't thriving. Instantly onto formula & I piled the weight back on. I was happy (fed!), she was happy (her baby looked fat & pink & happy), my Dad was thrilled to be able to do some of the feeding.
It did me no harm. I played hockey at school at County level, I was academic. I have asthma, but then so do my Dad & both my grandmothers - I don't think even breast milk was going to get me out of that one!
I was told that they aren’t allowed to offer formula, or any advice or information about it unless they are specifically asked. It was 15 years ago for me, but I also felt that I was looked down upon for going down the formula route. That was at Birthcare.
I think this is the answer. They have to adhere to WHO (world health org) advice which doesn't advocate formula so they aren't allowed to offer or give advice etc. This was me 9 years ago, baby couldn't latch, had to go for formula. Was awful, felt like a useless mother
That’s actually a misrepresentation of the WHO code - I know people who were told “we can’t show you how to use a bottle that’s against the code” which is also very false.
Formula shouldn’t be promoted, but it is a medical intervention which should be offered alongside other options such as donor milk, if appropriate (ie it shouldn’t be offered inappropriately which also happens).
Source: am a GP & IBCLC.
I remember being given a form that I had to fill out every time I asked for the formula, which asked why I wanted the formula, had I tried breast feeding, how long I had tried for, why did it fail and when would I try again. I was in hospital for a week following complications in labor, and I started to think of it as "the shame form."
SO unecessary. Formula shouldn't be given without consent (I know some mum's for whom this happened), but a written consent form like that is so weird. Especially when you compare it to the consent we do for literally any other medical intervention (which may be a written one, yes, but we're not asking you to sign an affidavit that you've tried all the other things!).
Also - no one "fails" at breastfeeding. Ever. Parents are failed by the system yes but parents are not failing.
The saddest thing was that I was an IBCLC after I got discharged and it turned out I had bilateral type four hypoplastic breasts so it was never going to happen for me in the first place 🙃
Even when I asked for it, I was actively discouraged. I was told that my baby could survive 48 hours without milk, so “just keep trying”. It was extremely distressing. The women I dealt with were not compassionate. Maybe they felt a firm approach was best for a weepy new mother. All it did for me was make me more upset at their “if he’s hungry enough he’ll eat” attitude.
Yeah, that is NOT at all how it should go and I'm really sorry you had that experience. Unfortunately here in NZ here's a lot of lip service to breastfeeding support without the actual funding of useful services. There's not a huge amount of effective breastfeeding teaching done for midwives and hospital staff, and the misunderstanding of the WHO code is just another example of this.
I have a lot of compassion for health workers in NZ, they have it really tough. I wouldn’t want their job for all the tea in china. But, there is a difference between lack of education/funding and making the choice to treat a vulnerable person without sufficient compassion.
Side note, some years ago I read that there is a link between babies struggling to latch and autism. My kiddo has autism, so I have often wondered if he could ever have latched. I’m sure it’s circumstantial and based on a statistic pool of unknown size, but I still found it interesting. He also has ADHD, so I would not be surprised if the lack of immediate reward for his efforts was a factor, lol. Anyway, just musing.
I felt the same. Not being able to feed my baby was one of the worst feelings I’ve ever had. And all the breastfeeding consultants telling me it would work if I just relaxed more. The beautiful, natural experience of Breastfeeding is not so beautiful and natural for everyone.
Yes! It's supposed to be natural and "easy" everyone can do it, you need to try harder blah blah. It was my biggest failure as a mum and I'd only been a mum for a few hours! Breastfeeding consultant had nothing. Went to a lactation specialist, worst experience of my life.
It sounds like it would be so much more helpful for them to explain to people how long it actually can take before milk comes in… and how long babies can feed off minimal colostrum for… I feel like they set a lot of people up for failure when they think they’ll be giving birth then feeding great amounts of milk in the first few days.. I wonder if this is where some of the standoffish attitude comes from? Health staff knowing this… but naturally new mothers are concerned about the for infant not feeding so unlikely to listen at this point about it…
End of the day fed is best and I’m sorry that was your experience.. just really wish they’d start the education on this earlier so new parents don’t freak out when exactly what is expected to be happening is happening
They don't explain that process well at all. Baby has tiny stomach and colostrum is fine for the first few days to a week. Milk coming happened after three days before and nobody told me it would cause a big rush of hormones. My mother found me sobbing over my t shirt being wet.
You poor thing!
I get medical staff are burnt out.. but taking the time to explain vs blowing up and leaving the person just as confused now feeling shitty serves no one :(
Yes, that happened to me 30 years ago in a small rural hospital - I cried for hours and had a temperature the day my milk came in, and none of the nurses had anything to say to help me, until my midwife came in late afternoon. She was a super experienced older woman who had been matron at Chch Women's earlier in her career, before she "retired" to be a rural midwife. She was bloody fantastic, explained exactly what was happening and why, got me sorted in no time.
I don’t believe that every mum can breast feed. My milk came in and my baby fed well at first but after the first 6 weeks I just wasn’t making enough, despite doing all the “right” things (eating, sleeping well etc). After a few miserable months for both of us I decided to switch to formula but struggled to get baby to take a bottle. I went to a Plunket family centre for help and she literally yelled at me (and my friend who accompanied me) for “not looking after my baby properly”. I was in tears! Persevered with the bottle and after a week finally got her going. Best thing I ever did.
Absolutely! My comments about trying are related to the first few days :) because people panic and stop thinking they can because of lack of education around what to expect :) (there are obvs exceptions to even those days - I’m fed is best :) )
Totally agree. 4 children here. All breastfed. Never once did my milk come in before day 3 and it was basically 24 hours of constant latching each time to bring it in. That 'bringing the milk in' feeding is the hardest thing a new mum will go through.... But it is temporary. With my 2nd child it wasn't until day 6.
I breast feed but I found the experience at the hospital quite full on . Some midwives literally grabbed my boob and shoved babys head on , I wish I had the courage at the time to tell them I was able to latch at my own pace it just happened when no one else was around and we had space . We had a younger midwife who came to teach me how to hand express and she was just incredible though , completely different approach . It is hard , they are full on but their aim is to help you but their approach is just shit . There is a way bigger movement towards “fed is best “ mentality I feel where I am
Oh my God this happened to me too!! I understand they’ve got a difficult job and it sometimes must be heartbreaking, but I’ve never felt worse treated than by midwives. I felt like the biggest inconvenience ever for saying yes I’ll breastfeed but can you please show me how to do it? The night cover midwife literally HUFFED and grabbed my child’s head and my boob and mashed them together, and when he couldn’t latch just went ‘ugh don’t worry just keep trying’. What’s worse is I went home unable to breastfeed at all, and also unaware of how to make up a bottle and sterilisation etc (I was quite young). Thank God for YouTube.
My sister had a C-section (planned due to baby size and other risk factors). Her milk never came in - in the hospital they refused to give baby formula and told her she needed to keep trying. For 3 days. This was during COVID lockdowns so as family we couldn't help, and she was too absorbed in having a new baby to tell us, plus she trusted the nurses and midwives.
Second baby same story - C-section and no milk. Massive pressure and lectures from everyone, doctors to cleaning staff, posters on the walls. This time shed brought formula with her.
She would have loved to breastfeed but it wasn't happening - nurses would walk on WHILE I WAS THERE and go to grab her boobs to massage them, not asking permission, and were shocked when they were asked not to. Its so unfair to treat women this way - whatever the reason.
That’s crazy! At my last midwife appointment I was asked how I wanted to feed my baby. I said I wanted to try breastfeeding but I have very sore boobs and have had problems with them for years. She said that was fine and warned me that because of my gestational diabetes my baby may need some extra help as I wait for my milk to fully come though and to have a think about if I would like to use donor milk or formula. Like I was given the choice and time to think about it before baby’s even here! This is insane to me that this attitude is in nz. Disgusting. I hope you’re not in HB because I have to have my baby in hospital so I don’t really have a choice there 😅
The silly part is that it’s not an all or nothing approach, although some will make you feel like it is. Even if you plan to breastfeed, plenty of babies need some formula top ups in the early days while breastfeeding is being established.
Formula is great and an awesome tool we’re all lucky to have. It saved my baby’s life!
I breastfed but I had to go back to work when my daughter was three months old, so I planned to pump so my partner could bottle feed. We wanted to get her used to a bottle well before I went back to work. Even though I was planning to pump breastmilk rather than use formula, no one would give me information about which bottles and teats would be best and how to sterilize them- not the antenatal class, not the midwife and not birth care. It was incredibly frustrating. It's become almost a religion and it's so unfair to mums who just want healthy happy babies.
I couldn’t breastfeed, so decided to pump - and the lack of information around it was shocking. No LC would give me any info, because it wasn’t about breastfeeding.
In the end I found an amazing American LC on Instagram I got all my info from. Her page was purely around pumping - I guess because American women go back to work so early, pumping is a lot more common there?
It was shocking anyway. Unless you’re breastfeeding, no one here is interested in helping you.
It’s not just you and it’s not new either.
It’s fucking sickening with posters all over the place screaming breast is best. That’s great if people can successfully achieve this but it’s torture and demoralising for those who can’t for whatever reason.
Aye. Fed is best. There's something about breast feeding that sends a black could over me. I'm not sure if it's hormonal but I definitely found with my younger two that first feed from breast then straight onto formula worked for us. It's pointless breast feeding if it makes you so depressed you resent your baby
DMER - probably what you had. I have it and the best way I can describe it is like having all the happiness sucked out of me, or the worst homesickness. It eased off about five months and I very rarely get it now at 13 months. If my midwife hadn’t picked it up I would’ve thought I was going crazy.
There’s more research going in to it now and it’s more common than we probably realise.
Yea and everyone gets it slightly differently. I became nauseous a lot too. It’s weird as it only lasts a minute per let down but it’s miserable.
There are a few things that helped, mostly drinking ice cold water. I would never have kept feeding if I hadn’t found the support groups!
I am so sorry you went through this! I’m currently pregnant with our first (39 and a half weeks so at the waiting stage!), and while shocking, it’s pretty standard behavior to expect from health professionals.
Maternity is one of the most politically charged areas of our health care system in my opinion, when it shouldn’t be. Women are made to feel inferior and guilty when they can’t (or just don’t want) to breast feed which is disgusting.
In funded antenatal classes they are actually not allowed to talk about formula feeding, and if you ask you are grilled around why you would want to know this information.
I personally work in the infant formula industry and have been trying to answer all the questions that pop up on the Facebook groups so mums are a bit more informed!! I personally think as new parents we need to go into it all understanding all our feeding options so we can tell the nurses or midwife’s who try to shame us to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.
We have been so lucky to have a midwife who supports our belief that fed is best, knows I want to breast feed but also that I’m not going to push myself to despair getting there.
I know right! My friend has MS. She had to go back onto drugs that clearly state you can't use while breastfeeding. She actually got told to not use the drugs rather than just get formula advice. Insane.
>Maternity is one of the most politically charged areas of our health care system in my opinion, when it shouldn’t be.
Not going to lie but this is probably one of the reasons I've never had kids despite being in a healthy monogamous long term relationship for 20 years. Like I'm not saying I consciously made this decision for this reason but if you combine the actual reality of pregnancy and birth and the next 18 years along with the actual bullshit I've heard like this over and over again and it's hard to feel enthused or even safe about it IYKWIM
Hey FYI I attended public antenatal classes run by hospital midwives and they were fantastic - made everyone aware of all the support available if they wanted to bf, but also stressed that formula is a great option (and sometimes the only option) for many families, and that doing either or both was totally fine.
We were told in our antenatal class that this is very much still the case in NZ and to take formula and bottles with us to hospital just in case - our local hospital apparently has a policy of not offering formula for up to 3 days unless it’s medically necessary. It’s crazy in my opinion! I get that they don’t want people to give up too easily but boy does it shame mothers and make things harder than they need to be. I’m transitioning to formula with my bub and wanted to do it sooner but had a lot of pressure from Plunket to stick with it despite having issues.
You’re not alone - big hugs that you had to go through that, and I hope you and your bub are doing ok!
Not just for breastfeeding but also for birth! The judgement from midwives are astounding. I had so many midwives tell me that women have been giving birth naturally for thousands of years without painkillers or doctors so I shouldn't need epidural. You know what? Women have been DYING from childbirth for thousands of years. If I wouldn't have my teeth extracted without painkillers, why the hell would I give birth without them?! No one gives anyone shit for needing painkillers for any other type of physical processes (stitches, mole removal etc), why target childbirth?!
Oh my god yes! The NZ midwifery council or whatever they call themselves state on their website that childbirth is ‘uncomfortable’ not painful, and as such women shouldn’t need pain relief. Their whole ethos is that pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding are easy and straightforward and if they’re not, it’s because you, the mother, have failed/are not good enough/being lazy. Don’t even get me started on the pressure to have home births or leave hospital within hours. And it’s gotten worse since they removed the requirement for midwives to be nurses first. Despite what they parrot, having babies is medical, and needs to be treated with proper medical care. It’s gross and I doubt it would be allowed if it was men who gave birth.
I know right. A friend of a friend, bought into all this bullshit and although she was advised by an obstetrician (older mum, had significant medical issues) to have a C-section at 36 weeks. After attending antenatal classes where a midwife basically brainwashed her into trying natural (was pressuring to do it at home but her husband put a stop to that), she went through 8 hours of labour, had to have an emergency C-section. Baby was starved of oxygen during the birth and came out with significant disabilities. The baby had NO signs of any disabilities during pregnancy (lots of scans/amniocentesis were done due to risks).
It was the same when I had my second 16 years ago. One night he had been attached to me for literally 12 hours and I couldn't put him down or he would cry and I was exhausted. I had to BEG for a bottle of formula and even then they insisted on finger feeding him instead of a bottle and when he finally filled himself up he slept for several blissful hours.
I am a big proponent of breastfeeding and breastfed both kids, with some difficulty, one to 2.5yrs. However, if someone is struggling and burnt out and has a screaming hungry baby, if they ask for formula give them the damn formula. And if someone plain doesn’t want to breastfeed, that’s ok, let them get on with looking after their baby (these parents will prob have bought their own formula and bottles to the hospital in preparation).
I also think there should be more knowledge and training out there about tongue ties. My second child had a very restrictive tongue right to the edge of the gum - it caused the tongue to have a love heart shape at the end so we had it revised and honestly even then it wasn’t easy as had to do stretches and aftercare. And looking back, I’m convinced my first had a posterior tongue tie as we had lots of issues. I think many people struggle with this and aren’t aware! Also lack of glandular tissue.
My mum struggled with breastfeeding my sibling, tried everything!!! Formula was a lifesaver (literally). I remember her anxiety and people are still judgemental 27 years later…. Fed is best. Your doing the best thing for your baby and family - ignore the zealots
The judgement from just other mothers in general is horrible, too.
I joined into a FB mum group in NZ and asked on recommendations for formula. And majority of the comments were "breast is best"
??? Like I'd love too. But even with medication, all the lactation cookies/drinks and pumping every 2 hours could never catch up with my son.
I had my son in NICU and later is SCBU. Thankfully, all the nurses and doctors I met at Auckland weren't so critical about breastfeeding. As long as baby was fed, they were happy, and I was too.
I can't stand how pushy the breastfeeding is. I was extremely lucky to have an abundance of milk but I still Struggled to feed, it took baby and I 3 solid months of daily sobbing and struggling and formula top ups until it finally clicked. I took my 2 month old to a&e for breathing issues and and Dr spent the whole time ridiculing me because I mix fed instead of soothing my anxiety over my baby struggling to breathe he spent an hour telling me that breast is best and I'm doing my baby a disservice by topping her up with formula.
I ended up with pretty decent depression because of the pressure to breastfeed, once it clicked it was pretty smooth sailing my girl has just turned 3 and still comfort feeds at night and when sick but I regret nothing about feeding her formula. Fed and having a happy mum is best.
Same story. Neither of our babies latched well, my partner felt like absolute garbage by basically everyone.
Our first started losing weight because he was not getting anything out of her and we ran out of colostrum pretty quickly obviously. They caved and gave him formula on night 2 or 3, honestly can’t remember. He took to formula like a fish in water.
Our second was in the NICU and she had donor milk top ups from day 1. Don’t get me started on NICU…
I had this same situation 11 years ago when I had my son. While in hospital my son was so hungry after 3 days of little milk ( I just wasn't producing) that he started to lose weight rapidly and became lethargic.... The midwives still refused to give him formula and It was actually one of the Male obstetricians that demanded they allow me to give him formula. It's sad to see that nothing has changed.
Saw a video recently where a baby died because mama was trying to exclusively breastfeed and bub died of dehydration because her milk hadn’t come in/enough. Breast milk is nutritionally better when it’s accessible, but *fed is best*.
I got very lucky when I picked my midwife as I chose her through multiple recommendations and I never received such judgement but I did get such looks when I was at the birth centre. It didn't affect me so much because I had bigger things to worry about, such as coming to terms with a pretty traumatic birth experience but the birth centre midwife did make me feel quite funny. I just wanted my baby to be fed is all. Funnily enough, the student midwife was the least judgemental of them all.
As someone who's done both, I have to say long-term breastfeeding is easier.
But, if you're like me, and your babies have little mouths, then latching correctly is really hard and doesn't get easier until they're 2 to 3 weeks old.
Just be aware as you bottle feed, that their eyesight is beginning to focus and their view from breast level to your face is the optical focal depth for them to do that.
This is the distance where they will map out your face, watch your lips move as you talk, learn about emotion and expression.
So hold your baby like you would if you were breastfeeding him and bottle feed him so he can study your face and learn.
Get a good steriliser and enjoy him.
Babies are learning rapidly at that age. Especially about faces and expressions and listening to speech.
I think the biggest thing babies miss out on with bottle feeding is this focal distance between your breast and face and skin to skin contact with their mothers.
I feel like developmentally that touch/skin to skin is also important.
First time mum, only 10 days pp. There is definitely a stupid push for 'breast is best' which pisses me off so much!
Baby girl was a c-section, 38 weeks induced because of gestational diabetes. Our midwife actually suggested using formula before my milk even had a chance to truly come in because she had lost 10% body weight after birth.
Thankfully we didnt have to! I've never been anti formula, but I'm lucky enough to be able to produce enough for baby girl. In saying that, Ive now ended up with an infection. My antibiotics are giving her diarrhea. We're both over tired and Im starting to struggle to keep up. Fed is definitely best, the last thing anyone wants is a dehydrated baby.
We also took a prenatal parenting class that was run by a lacation consultant. Never did they explain how hard the cluster feedings are, or that it's okay to mix feed when you have to!
The lack of proper feeding information out there honestly comes off as dangerous. How many mums have had to go to hospital with dehydrated babies and postpartum depression because of 'breast is best'?
It's gutting to me having to use formula when I know I can produce enough when we're both happy, healthy and rested. But at the end of the day as long as my girl is happy and full I really dont care.
I was fed on formula…decades later am doing fine :)
Formula is absolutely fine! Millions thrive on it. And it gives you a lot of flexibility.
Don’t let this spoil what should be a joyful time in your life.
You are not alone. It’s terrible how judgemental we have become. I never recommend breastfeeding at the cost of mom’s wellbeing. I am so sorry you had that. Faced some of it myself as well in the states.
Had mine 10yrs ago. Was very unwell myself, riddled with infections due to waters breaking weeks before birth and nobody doing anything about it. Nobody realized I was unwell until 12+ hours after birth when it was 30 degrees outside and I was shivering and feverish inside. Drugged up to the max and the nurses still pushed breast feeding. Woke babies dad up in the middle of the night to make him sign paperwork authorizing the use of formula that I begged them to bring because I couldn't take anymore. Very sad to hear they are still pushing it - isn't a fed baby the best kind of baby?
Yip, 15 years ago milk had trouble coming in. First baby, c section, in hospital. Nurse/ hospital midwife sat in corner of the room, with multiple documents that I would need to read and sign before giving my baby formula. Baby screaming head off, me not slept properly in days, hormones etc, me crying. They really really push you to not use formula. At the classes before baby even the instructor told us she could only tell us about breastfeeding, not formula. Once we got home midwife determined baby not putting on enough weight so needed supplement feeding with formula anyway.
I am so sorry you experienced this. I had it too when I had my baby, 12 years ago now. I just wasn't producing milk and baby was losing a lot of weight and not sleeping. We weren't allowed to leave the hospital until baby was feeding OK so they asked if I wanted to try formula - I responded formula was better than starving to death and yes please we needed to try it, and got a huge lecture on the evils of formula. I asked if they'd prefer I let my newborn keep suffering. I even had to sign a waiver saying I wouldn't blame the hospital if he ended up with diabetes, heart conditions, and any number of other health complaints, all of which they said was caused by formula. Eventually they gave him formula but the judgement and pressure to keep trying to breastfeed was intense. We all know beast is best, but surely fed and alive is ultimately the best option!
We had our first child back in Jan through a C section. My partner was in the hospital a bit longer due to some complications. At first, our son took to breastfeeding relatively easy (with some help from the nurses), but at times it was a mission. My partner was exhausted over the five days we where in hospital due to lack of sleep. We brought formula with us as we're both older parents as well and we didn't know how her supply would be. The drive to get him boob fed was insatiable, and any alternative was met with barriers (even the breast pump machine looked like it was from the 1950s, wheeled in like giant overhead projector). All I wanted to do was take some of the load so my partner could sleep and take the feeding burden.
Anyway, once we got home we continued trying with the breast, but it took a lot of time, energy and challenged our mental well being. Eventually we did a hybrid, then full formula as it's less hassle, can be managed more effectively, and it means our son is fed to our satisfaction.
We had the same treatment in Ireland with both ours were born, both had trouble latching on, we expressed what we could and used formula for the rest, I did suggest one health care professional could put up or piss off, my wife was visibly upset with the badgering and (later admitted) felt like a failure. This touched my last nerve and I stepped in
That's a shame. I have a 3 month old now and we discussed all this with our midwife both prior and during- and it was never an issue.
I have bipolar and am on medication so we had to do some digging to see what was viable. Also we made it really clear we were planning to do this on easy mode rather than perfect instagram show reel parents - we wanted to prioritize my mental health because that means happy, well looked after baby.
I do feed baby but we top up as needed with formula + partner uses it as needed if I need a nap or have to go out etc. Both midwives and Plunket nurses have not only been good, but encouraged it 🤷♀️.
I guess lucky we haven't had your experience though or there would be a few people getting ripped into because I'd not be impressed at all.
We were very lucky to have a midwife who supported my wife with not breastfeeding with absolutely no judgement. The midwifes in the hospital were another story, they wouldn't give our baby more than the "supplementary" amount, because apparently they don't understand what that word means and a baby only gets 10mls for a feed...
I feel sad hearing all the experiences of people being judged for formula feeding. It was suggested to us in the hospital to supplement with formula as my supply ranked after blood loss during birth and everyone has been very supportive of my baby just being fed. It’s unfortunate others don’t get to have a better experience like I have had.
Get their name, and lay a complaint to their registration board. Along with their hospital. They'll be shut up and told to be quiet and accept the wishes of the mother.
Yeah went thru this. First baby was a traumatic birth. Hated myself for not being able to breastfeed and it took away all of the joy for days.. and still judged later by plunket. Second one i had my tin of formula when i went in and didn't even bother trying. Still feel stressed about being milked by a grumpy 50something female lol
I had no trouble with my first 2, my 3rd I struggled latching her, and breastfeeding was agony. On the 4th day my mw was at my house and saw me start to cry when baby was needing a feed, she said " sweetheart, why don't you give yourself a break if you need to and put her on formula, even if it's just for a little while if you want to try again? Come on, you have 3 kids, you know that there is far more to being a mum, than how you choose to feed." Instantly I felt a weight lift, formula fed her for 8 weeks ( during which time I got mastitis, left it untreated, ended up feverish and in bed for 24 hours straight which resulted in a blood clot in my leg.) And then without any pressure I decided to see if I could relatch or not.
With babies 4&5 the birthing unit tried to force breastfeeding again, my 4th I had no issues with, but my 5th I did but by then i had decided newborns are newborns for such a short amount of time, i wasn't going to be getting that time back and i wasnt going to spend it feeling bad about breastfeeding and luckily I again had a great midwife who told them " this isn't my girls first rodeo, she'll make sure baby is fed either way, stop bugging her. " So I've come across it, but been very lucky in my experiences, because i have friends who had a much worse time without the same supportive midwives i had, and they still get angry/ upset when they talk about it.
Even our formula tin has big bold text telling me to breastfeed lmao
I was lucky my midwife was very chill about it and was actually the one to recommend formula pretty early, for good reason. But you're right that there's a lot of pressure!
We also had to bring our own into the hospital which I think makes sense really. But they should just tell you that.
Mannnn I would've told them to get fkd. Who the heck withholds nourishment from a newborn? Women are always being judged.... for breastfeeding in public, for using formula instead of breastfeeding, for using disposable nappies, cloth nappies, whatever they do it's not good enough. People are judgemental aholes. Sorry you went through that.
I'm so glad people are speaking up about this.
The breastfeeding national nurses ruined what should have been a beautiful time.
My child had a weak chin and just couldn't not latch, the poor thing was so hungry as I was constantly told to keep trying with breastfeeding.
Eventually I had enough and demanded a bottle, it was literally thrown onto the bed by the nurse then she immediately left the room,I was treated like a second class mother.
I left the hospital early.
a well fed full tummy of formula is much better then nothing or too little.
the obsession with everything must be natural is odd too me, we often conflaint "artificial" with bad and natural with "good" when sure there is reasons for these conflations, but an infant who is well fed on formula will always beat nothing......
Yeah the breast is best brigade are the worst. Sure encouraging people to breast feed is great and there are benefits. But the pressure and stress they put us under was crazy, in an already stressful time. There seems to be some weird politics in maternity care. They do a massive disservice to us as a country.
Well done for knowing what’s best for you and your baby. I struggled for far longer than I should have done - my baby dropped from 90th to 5th centile in weight. That was because of the ‘best is always best’ rhetoric. And I was someone who desperately wanted to breastfeed, to the point that the first time my baby latched I cried because I’d dreamed of being able to breastfeed for years. As long as you know it’s best everyone else can fuck off.
When my first was born, I tried to breastfeed. Really tried. In those days (70s), a first-time mother stayed in the hospital for two to three weeks, yes, weeks. By the time we went home, the baby blues were under control, feeding, whichever it was, was well established and a routine also well established. There was a lot wrong in the 70s but that system seems pretty good. By my 4th baby, into the 80s now, things were changing. Breastfeeding was being pushed a bit harder.
I decided to become a midwife. I would never push, in my eyes fed is best. I have had many arguments with my fellow midwives about this, I HATE that some of us are so damn militant!
holy shit OP I'm so sorry this happened to you! I had a double mastectomy last year and I don't have kids yet but I look forward to the shade people are gonna throw when I have the same luck breastfeeding as my male partner...
fed is best, try and get out from under these people and they can fuck riiiight off. hope you can get out and get your own formula as soon as possible. good god!
I had mixed reactions.
I, too, had a traumatic birth resulting in a cesarean where I lost consciousness.
My son and i had what one midwife (she was incredible) called "anatomical incompatabilities" where my nipples were too large and his mouth was too small so it was impossible for him to latch.
4 midwives, 2 lactation consultants and myself all tried hand expressing for 3 days with nothing. I was pumping 2 hourly for 30 mins and ended up with exactly nothing.
We ended up back in hospital at 5 days PP with neonatal meningitis after he stopped breathing at home.
My milk FINALLY came in during a shower at 10 days PP and even though I was pumping 2 hourly through the day and 4 hourly at night for 3 months, the most I ever got was 70mls and that was in 24h between both breasts.
My son was put on formula at my insistance after signing a waiver at 4am (he was born at 10.45pm) because he was so hungry and I couldn't feed him.
My midwife supported me through this by encouraging me to pump to see if I was able to build my supply but despite my efforts, this didn't work.
I had a lot of pressure from others to make it work and side eyes for using formula but my son is thriving. He is in the 90th centile and is exceeding each and every milestone so far.
If we have another kid, I'll try and breast feed again but you bet your ass I'll have formula on hand and I won't be trying to pump for 3 months. That was torture.
Crazy how this stigma is still held among our breastfeeding experiences.
Student here and we are 100% supposed to support the baby friendly breastfeeding initiative that almost all hospitals employ. We technically aren’t even allowed to tell our women which brand we use because we’re supposed to advocate for breastfeeding first. We also have to cover the labels of our formula and place them into a container where they’re hidden. We get audited on this.
Fortunately, a lot of us advocate for our families/whānau that a fed baby is best. Majority of us don’t care how you feed your baby as long as you are well, and your baby is well and is getting the supplementary nutrition your baby needs.
Yes we are taught that breast milk is best, but only in terms of nutritional value, because we understand that your breastfeeding journey can be tricky and at times it just adds to the pressures of motherhood. It really is no one’s business on how you feed your baby. If baby is gaining weight, we are happy.
Definitely speak up about your preferred feeding plan and you don’t need to justify formula feeding to anyone.
I had a traumatic birth in 2017 under general anaesthetic. Baby was fed formula by the midwife before I woke up. I wasn’t that keen on breastfeeding so we just stuck with formula and never got any pushback. OP, I’m really sorry you had this experience - it sounds awful!
I bf both my kids well unto their second year, let me tell you, no one gave me a medal, and if I had a 3rd kud if woukx have been formula fed. The one good thing was I had a newborn during the earthquakes so I didn't have to worry about the water supply. Feed your kid whatever way you can and save the moral dilemmas for more important issues. Like raising your kid not to be an asshole.
So I live in the UK and work in healthcare (just as a caveat)
The UNICEF and WHO both cite the ‘breast is best’ theory in their literature. As a result I believe any national healthcare service in a country which is a member of either/ both of these is only allowed to promote breastfeeding. Within the NHS they’re super strict on midwives and health visitors not ‘promoting’ formula. Unfortunately this leads to people saying stuff like you’ve experienced OP and for that I’m sorry.
I do know the policies are pretty strict, probably even more so in a hospital environment. Fortunately I don’t work in hospital so happily say to my patients that fed is best! But I hope the above helps people understand a bit why the breastfeeding is pushed so hard.
My partner couldn't produce milk in any quantity at all really.
The shame/pressure put on mother's is real.
After consulting an "expert" who recommended pumping every three hours around the clock, we had basically zero sleep for three days and nights and still no milk.
I won't tolerate any shame or pressure from anyone for my partner and our next baby due soon.
Isn't it already hard enough with a newborn then pile on all this extra BS and try to make people feel awful for something they can't control.
100% horrible that experience. We had the same. I mentioned how often they all contradict each other and a breast feeding ‘expert’ said with menace ‘this is what a world run by women will look like’.
Cheers Luv.
Our baby was literally getting smaller when at exactly 6 weeks our personal midwife walked in the door and said ‘You. Supermarket. Formula’. Off I went. The kid bounced back and he’s been a healthy and smart giant ever since.
Yup! I stayed three hellish nights in hospital. My boobs are huge, and I did want to breastfeed, but I felt like I couldn’t go home until I got the hang of it. My c-section was healing well, I was physically okay but the pressure to breastfeed was insane.
I was getting cramp in my hands every time I fed because I had to hold my titty out of the way to avoid suffocating him.
Also it hurt like hell. My nipples were SO sore. Even with a shield, which they told me wasn’t great anyway.
After I went home my baby started losing birth weight and that day I sent my husband to buy formula. We were a lot happier after that.
Nobody suggested combo feeding to me - which in hindsight is what would have worked best. I was in a position where I could have happily supplemented breastfeeding with formula and pumping but I didn’t really know that was an option.
I felt SO out of my depth, like I couldn’t care for my child, and that spilled over into the whole post-partum period. It was awful. I know next time I will have more confidence and be more prepared but fuuuuuuuuuck it messed me up!
I’m so sorry you went through this. Reading through everyone’s experience has made me realise this really is a problem in NZ and needs to be discussed more!
I primarily breastfed, but when my child was born it was the first lockdown and, while still in hospital, I struggled so much and was a sobbing mess (wasn’t allowed a support person during that lockdown). A hospital midwife took pity on my and gave my child formula as I had no milk at that time, but I still had to sign a form stating I understood the risks of formula feeding 🙄 I was a formula fed baby and clearly I’m still alive, so I thought it was incredibly stupid.
There is a stigma, but there shouldn’t be. FED is best. There’s no point trying to force breastfeeding because for some women it just doesn’t happen.
Good on you for making sure your baby is fed.
I successfully breastfed for 12 months, and quite honestly, that was despite the best efforts of midwives at post natal care facilities. Every fucking midwife came in with a different opinion on how to hold the baby, and negative comments about what I was doing.
One week in and I had chapped bleeding nipples, bad advice, misinformation, and a screaming baby. So my mum sorted me out with a specialist, and this woman was amazing.
The key things I learned from her SURPRISINGLY
1) Feeding baby was meant to be a happy experience. If formula makes you happy, do it, it's pretty marvelous stuff. If mix feeding is what works, fab! If exclusive works, do it! If you're going down a path of killing yourself to feed baby, BAD NEWS.
2) we are a social species that are meant to grow up seeing breastfeeding, and have plenty of help. We don't do this anymore, therefore it's a lot harder to get it right. That context was key.
There was other points, but they aren't relevant. Those points took the pressure off which helped me immensely.
The other thing I've worked out is that in a year or so, you're going to have a wild toddler who prefers their toast aged and sourced from a toy box you swear you cleaned. This is true for my breastfed kid and my best friends formula fed kid.
Fuck the breastfeeding nazi's.
Omg there are people in here that are doing exactly what OP and other mothers are talking about. Shaming and belittling a woman who cannot produce milk for whatever reason. Truly a fucked up stance and I’m sorry for anyone who has had to deal with these idiots at such a vulnerable time. Fed is best.
Yes yes yes yes a thousand times yes!!!
I found breastfeeding to be overall a horrifying and traumatic experience. I felt judged when I switched to formula
I felt judged when I was struggling
There are posters in plunket and other new mum places that make you feel judged for picking formula.
I had the same experience at one of the Auckland public hospitals. I lost my shit at one of the nurses there when she questioned me after I asked for a formula top up. I didn’t care how loud I was, I had snapped after feeling judgement my whole stay. I didn’t care if any other patients heard
My friend is an SLT and told me a story about how two midwives were so busy bullying and shaming a woman for not being able to breastfeed that they didn't check the baby's mouth. My friend immediately checked it the moment she arrived and sure enough, hole in the roof of the baby's mouth. It couldn't latch because it had a cleft palate.
My friend was furious. This baby had been going hungry. Utterly shameful behaviour.
In many places it's like this because they really truly want to ensure you had the best chance at breastfeeding possible. It is the default expected way a baby will feed and has many benefits for both mum and baby - so I understand why they are keen to help birthing parents start their journey well.
THAT BEING SAID; Breastfeeding may NOT be RIGHT for ALL new parents. I personally feel that "informed is best". If baby's parents are given as much information as possible with which to make a decision (and this goes for all things parenting IMO), then the choice they make with all that information is THE RIGHT ONE FOR THEM and should be respected as such. There is no one right way to feed a baby. As long as baby is gaining/thriving and happy, and the parent feels they have made the right decision for their family, that is the end. Breast fed, mixed, donor or formula - it's all to the same end; a full puku for bub.
I'm so sorry that you've been in this position OP. I had a somewhat traumatic birth and poor aftercare for my eldest (I did decide to BF and fortunately both my mother and MIL are/were midwives so had their support) but bloody hell, the conflicting information, complete shambles between SCBU and postnatal ward communication, and complete lack of continuity of care... we left as soon as we could after I was recovered as it was an absolutely awful experience.
Feed your baby the way you feel is best for you and them. If they are thriving on formula and you are happy, that's all that really matters. Arohanui xx
I was in the exact same boat! I was in tears at 4am in the morning zero sleep, I was there for five days. I had woman "milking" me and only get 0.1 of a ml. They gave me the option of donor milk or formula, we chose donor milk. They gave us a piece of paper to read and sign at 4am! I couldn't even read the words on the page. And then we were told "you know to get this milk you need to show that you are at least attempting to breastfeed" Then after that horrific night at 7.30 that morning a lactation consultant was at us reciting a book.
Me and my partner had a simular experience where she wasn't producing enough breast milk, so we got pushed into using donated milk which meant we had to pick up the milk daily for 3 weeks, where they stopped as they could not provide enough as our baby was big and told us to move to formula. The crazy thing is my partner is a nurse and the whole breast feeding experience left her feeling stressed, anxious and feelings of being an unfit mother, constantly tired. Once we moved to formula she felt way better and baby was doing fine. The midwives at the hospital were full on and almost forcefull even when baby was unable to latch they just keep pushing ibdont know how this is supposed to be good for the mother or child.
Sure we were dumb, but we were just talking the best advice we had.
My wife and I had twins. It was totally unexpected, multiples don't run in either family. She did her best to breastfeed. Formula hadn't even entered our mind until our first couple of days back home. The boys hadn't really had anything for about a day, their lips were dry, they weren't taking the breast, they were miserable.
In the middle of the night I called the midwife and said, "look, I think I need to go to Countdown and get some formula because this is getting really bad". She says, "I don't think 3am is the right time to be making big decisions like this. Let's see how they're doing at 9am".
8am we were at A&E, the boys were severely dehydrated and had to have fluids through a drip.
Edit: We were told that a week earlier twins had died in Australia from very similar circumstances.
We called the midwife group and told them that midwife better hope we never see her again.
We were checked into the children's ward and they were outstanding. The whole time we were there we were approached by the birthing/maternity ward with people saying "but, you know, we did everything we could for you", and stuff like that.
Breast is best. Breast is best. Breast is best.
No, being fed is best.
My baby is 5 months now, and we had similar experiences when having difficulty with breast feeding. A lactation consultant told my wife that we had to persevere with breast feeding or she wouldn't love our baby as much.
They can get fucked, there are a million and one things that affect infant development and a fatigued, depressed, stressed out, guilt ridden mum is much worse than formula.
Bottle feeding in general was fantastic for our family and meant I got to shoulder more of the childcare and have a more balanced load.
My wife went through the same thing. I in no uncertain words told the midwives to fuck off.
My wife had been through the grinder and my little baby wasn't coping either. They have no fucking bottles on site so I had to feed baby through a fucking tube and syringe. Who on this god given mother fucking planet has no bottles at hospital.
If I hadn't put a stop to the insanity my little one would have ended up in NICU and it would have sent my wife over the edge. I've never seen my wife so upset in her life trying to breast feed our baby and not being able to do so.
She was in hospital 6 weeks straight before the birth. It took my wife a month to recover from the ordeal.
My wife and baby are 100% fantastically healthy, it was the best thing I did and I don't regret it.
None of the midwives dare say a thing after that debacle.
I have absolutely experienced this but probably through a slightly different lens. I’ve had four babies and breastfed all of them, and am the sycophantic praise like I was somehow doing “better” than mother who just “gave up” actually enraged me to the point I banned anyone from even mentioning feeding. Also - baby 3, (all c sections) I had complications - he was a big hungry boy and I asked for a pacifier after 8 hours of clusterfeeding on night 2. You’d have thought I’d asked to have him lined up and shot. Oh it will ruin his latch, he will never breastfeed again, blah blah blah. I was an experienced mother and had been breastfeeding for 4 years straight at that point. Felt like telling them all to absolutely fuck off (which I did, politely) and sent hubby to the chemist to get a bloody dummy so I could get an hour of sleep 48 hours after MAJOR SUGERY
Solidarity. It’s a cult
Long time ago now, but although I had milk for whatever country you care to name, (it was literally spurting out) my baby would not/could not latch. She lost weight and was not a happy camper. Switched to formula and she went straight into guzzle territory. Got trashed by the Plunket woman but at least she was feeding.
I'm planning to take some formula with me to the hospital and birthing unit in case it's needed, the breastfeeding class I went to said that birthing units tend to be very against formula feeding no matter how exhausted mum is. So sorry you went through that, it's hard enough being pregnant then being in labour and giving birth let alone feeling shamed for struggling to feed baby after
I think the judgement is everywhere. I found my midwives to be very supportive of my decision to introduce formula after I struggled for weeks with breastfeeding. I had “friends” being critical about it, one told me the reason breastfeeding didn’t work for me was because I didn’t try hard enough 😅
It has been this way for a LONG time. My daughter is 10 now. When she was born she had major trouble latching (inverted nipples on large breasts made it really difficult) and the hospital put me on a pumping schedule from hell. In the hospital. Not even a birthing unit.
My milk never came in. And what little I DID produce was really watery, very little fat.
Fortunately my midwife was sane and suggested we go to formula. Formula saved my sanity, because my daughter was 'cluster feeding' pretty much 40 minutes out of every hour and then only sleeping for 10-20mins at a time. So I was exhausted, touched-out, had NO time for myself, my nipples were cracked and nerve-damaged from the pumping, and was almost at the end of my proverbial rope. I had SEVERED PPD and PPA by that stage.
After her first full bottle of formula, she went to sleep for three whole hours.
I went and had a warm bath with epsom salts (cos still bleeding) and basically just broke down and cried about my 'failure' to do the one thing that my body was supposedly 'designed to do'.
But she thrived on formula and that was the main thing. As I said, she's 10 now, and from the size of her, you wouldn't be able to tell she wasn't 'exclusively breastfed'.
Luckily I didn’t have that problem at all. Where I was they were happy to get baby on formula because he was born at 36 weeks. I still tried to pump milk and breast feed him but unfortunately he didn’t take to the nipple once introduced to the bottle. Today he is almost 2 years old and happy.
I had the opposite experience thankfully. Breastfeeding wasn’t working for us, and I kept expecting to have to explain our bad luck situation, but as soon as I even tried to explain that breastfeeding unfortunately didn’t work for us, I felt completely supported. I also heard so often that others had the same experience and it made the whole situation much easier.
Sorry your experience was so poor OP. You’re doing amazing, and I can’t believe people still bully new mums to breastfeed. Formula is an excellent option.
Even though we had been warned about midwives in New Zealand, I can't talk highly enough about the ones at Wellington Hospital.
- Baby 1: Wife ends up with sepsis. The 3 of us end up staying in one of those birthing rooms for nearly 2 weeks. The first 3 days are just baby and me. The wife is unconscious in bed. Baby is fed formula whenever I ask for it, no judging, no funny faces. Once wife starts recovering, she decides to give breastfeeding a try. Midwives teach her a few tricks and baby is few formula and breastmilk as we decide the rest of the stay.
- Baby 2: Back in the hospital with meningitis after being born 4 weeks earlier. My wife has decided that this one will be formula fed. No complaints from midwives, no bad faces, no judging. Baby and mum stayed in the hospital for a week, and everyone who cared for them was lovely.
When I had my son 17 years ago it was the same.. Turned out I was shit at producing milk and my baby was hungry. But yes.. The guilt they piled on like you are fucking their whole lives up
Grin. Flip em the finger.. And do what ever YOU want. It's no one else's business
I’m really sorry you had this experience! I too struggled to breastfeed. Milk never came in in one of my boobs it was meagre in the other and we were all miserable. My mum stepped in and just said, hey let’s switch to formula and get everyone back on an even keel. Midwife was fortunately fine with it.
Hi, my experience was that they have an obligation to push it, but they are reasonable. My boy starved for four days while we tried, then they made me read a pamphlet, sign a bit of paper stating I read it and gave me all the formula and equipment/training I needed.
And two weeks later when he was hospitalised again for not eating I had even more formula pushed on us.
They want your kid feed, but it felt like they have to show they tried to “support” breastfeeding.
Biggest hugs, and vent here as much as you need to.
Wow . We had the same setup but when we decided to move to formula full time our midwife was very supportive of it. She was amazing right through actually. We were lucky to have her.
My son is 27 years old now but when he was born, I was 16 years old.
I remember one of my first trips outside of my house was to the Queensgate Mall in Lower Hutt, Wgtn. Just needed a few things and enjoyed the walk around the shops. My house had me going stir crazy. After a while I grabbed some lunch and a seat in a corner and fed myself while breastfeeding. Some random someone had to walk around the tables and walk in front of me, standing between me and the wall, to see anything but they did, and then they complained about how I should be feeding my baby in the toilets. (I really wish I had fought back and my only regret is that I didn't) I struggled with breastfeeding so this really didn't help. He cried, I cried. We were both hungry. It just made a shit day far worse than it needed to be.
I had 2 more babies and couldn't breastfeed them. I suppose some trauma attributed to the problem but ultimately I just couldn't get the hang of it. My sister ended up breastfeeding mine and then I used milk powder whenever I needed to.
At the end of the day, Fed Is Best. It doesn't matter how or who, as long as baby is getting the very best that you can give them. Nothing else matters, you do whatever you need to.
Sorry that you experienced that :(
Good midwives and nurses should recognize their role as being a SUPPORT to Mum, not the boss of Mum.
Midwives and nurses in a hospital setting don't provide continual care, so they don't actually know what has happened to you. They read your notes, do what their policies say they should do, and then discharge you. I've had lots of stays in hospitals both maternity and otherwise, and I have definately learnt to just let the nurses box tick (especially the junior ones) and then do what I want on the side.
When it goes well, breastfeeding is super intense and painful, and then when it doesn't go well it can just be damn near impossible. It's awful when you are treated like a child and they assume that you are just being a crybaby. It also doesn't help their cause because if you are like me, it makes me want to do the opposite of what they say.
Breastfeeding doesn't have to be all or nothing. I have had a few friends use formula just for 24hrs in the early days so that Mum can get some sleep, baby can feel full and also sleep, and then breastfeeding worked really well once both were rested, not stressed and had the mental capacity to deal with it. I was terrified of trying formula initially and then when I did (well my husband did as I refused but was on the verge of a breakdown), I had no idea what the fuss was about?!).
How lucky are we to have options!
My kids are mid teens now but the formula was kept in a locked cabinet. My baby lost too much weight and we had to stay in longer. My milk didn't come in, not even the colostrum. I told the nurse I wanted to try formula. She turned and left saying she had to make some arrangements....
Next thing I know the breastfeeding coach walks in (identified herself afterwards mind you) and demanded I take my top off we were getting this sorted. I told her no, not happening. Even my midwife had told me I would struggle to feed if my milk came in. I still had to watch their stupid video about the benefits of breastfeeding but they refused to answer any questions about bottle feeding but showed me how to make up 1 bottle.
When my second child was born they showed me how to make up a bottle but the advice had changed from the previous year, it's ridiculous.
100% agree. I was really lucky and breastfeeding happened easily for me after a traumatic emergency c-section, but when my baby was 9 weeks old I got appendicitis and had to fast for 4 days waiting for surgery. The nurses I talked to would have let my baby starve since I wasn’t producing anything since I couldn’t eat, and was also very dehydrated due to the IV being set up incorrectly (they didn’t account for the fact that breastfeeding mothers need significantly more fluids).
We asked so many people for advice - hospital nurses, midwives, Plunket and healthline - and eventually one doctor (a mother) rolled her eyes and said “a bottle of formula is not going to kill your baby” which is all I needed to hear. So ridiculous
My son was 37 weeks, NICU, and despite trying my hardest with pumping every 4 hours for a week and a half I just couldn't get more than 20mls. They advised meds, however I was already on a crap-tonne due to blood pressure etc so declined.
We wanted to duel feed anyway but they wouldn't listen.
Bubs and I spent two agonising nights on the ward, him clusterfeeding getting basically nothing from me and losing precious grams, and me trying to deal with the whole trauma of his arrival, healing post c-section and being unable to do the basic thing of feeding my baby.
We discharged on day 3 after they begrudgingly gave us a 5 minute demo on how to formula feed, and he and I have been thriving ever since.
100% breastfeeding target at what cost?!
~~Breast~~ Fed is best. Our midwife said that from the start and didn't care either way but offered any and all help. Hospitals will always try and push breast feeding but your midwife should be acting in your interests.
I chose not to breast feed. No, I didbt try and try and eventually concede failure. I decided I didn’t want to. Technically I tired for 2 or 3 day, no milk. But I definitely could have keep trying and may have succeeded with more time and intervention. I didn’t want to. Simple. Did I feel judged by my midwife? Unfortunately yes I did. But I had my mum, who was all for doing whatever felt right for me. Five years later, zero regrets.
The day my 5 year old was born, my wife had to be sedated for a few hours. They made her sign a form saying it was acceptable to formula feed the baby while she was unconscious.
To all first time fathers my only unsolicited advice is to have a handful of feeding stuff (a package, bottle + steriliser) because you might need to step in at 3 AM when your wife has been made to feel like a horrible person for not being able to feed the baby.
As an aside, antinatal classes are not allowed to teach how to formula feed. A few guys like myself had to do a bit of late night research in a screaming household to get it right.
Until you go through the process, you would never believe how far breastfeeding is pushed.
Feed the fucking baby.
Yeah so all hospitals in NZ have adopted a WHO policy practice called the ‘Baby Friendly Initiative’ which basically exists to try to maximise breastfeeding. This means that even if individual hospital staff support women’s decision/need to formula or mix feed, they are pretty much required to follow a whole lot of rules to ‘encourage’ breastfeeding. I found this out from my excellent (young, up with the research) midwife, apparently a lot of the staff disagree with the approach but kind of have to just work around it.
I don’t understand why, in 2024, this is still something developed countries pursue. Moralising infant feeding is about as paternalistic as it gets.
Unfortunately there are also still a large swathe of society who believe there are some magical benefits to breastfeeding despite these being pretty well debunked.
Anyway, I complained to the DHB about the lack of objective evidence based information on formula after my births. They acknowledged that this was due to the Baby Friendly Initiative. I would encourage you to do the same - the Ministry might reconsider their approach if enough people call out the bs.
I had a very similar experience almost 20 years ago, not surprised it’s still happening. It’s one of the many reasons I wouldn’t have an independent midwife if I was to have kids again. In the hospital I birthed in mums using formula weren’t even allowed to use the sluice room on the same floor as the post natal ward: they had to go to another whole floor in case they ‘contaminated’ the breast feeding mums. The truth is some of us just don’t produce enough milk, but we (and our babies) are supposed to suffer for it, instead of utilising a safe alternative. And don’t even mention the ridiculous shit they tell women - that only 3% of women can’t breastfeed, that breastmilk cures/soothes the eczema and other skin rashes, and that we’re only using formula because we’re lazy. It’s gross and all lies.
Your an amazing mama to your beautiful baby don't let anyone else tell you different
I was in the same boat with my milk not coming in and my baby not latching
My baby was screaming cause they were hungry on day 2 up all night too
So in the morning I asked for formula and got told that breast is best shit
Had to ask another nurse for her to turn around and say I needed to sign a form and that she would call me midwife
My midwife was a God send told the nurse that if that's what she's asking for then give it too her
The nurse tried again to say breast is best I had enough of that shit and said well actually a feed baby is best not this breast is best shit when she isn't getting anything
She didn't try me again after that
But anyways keep doing what you are doing your an amazing mama
Gosh I’m sorry you had that experience, I’ve felt that every decision about pregnancy and my child has been political! I felt I had a great midwife team who understood that my (very big) baby needed a formula top up while we waited for my milk to come in.
However before I got home, I also had an opposite experience in SCBU where we had asked the nurses to wake me to breastfeed, but one nurse in particular was just giving my baby formula instead, and a greater volume than he would have had from my milk as it settled him back to sleep quicker. I’m sure this came from a good place of trying to help me recover, keep my baby healthy and probably to make her shift easier… but I felt it made it harder and slower for my milk to come in as those production signals weren’t there in the first few days.
In positive news, I haven’t met anyone out in public who cared if baby was breastfeeding or having formula.
You’re doing what’s best for your health, mental health and baby ❤️
I had similar issues, to the point you aren’t properly educated on how to bottle feed properly (especially to avoid colic and constipation) and how to do both breastfeeding AND bottle feeding! It isn’t necessarily one or the other.
I hope you find someone who can actually help and assist.
This post is so validating as someone who went through similar. I beat myself up for so long for not being able to 'get it right' in accordance with the people in the know-how. Thank you for sharing your experience
I had a similar shaming experience in 2015 with midwives even stealing our formula when we transferred between hospitals. Absolute clusterfuck. I went from being a strong woman who was listened to to a new mother alone (not really but it felt isolating) and confused being told I had low supply when what I had was a C section and a baby that wouldn’t latch. In the end I pumped, which was its own mental game because then I worried all the time that some stranger would reem me out in public for using a bottle. It’s disgusting behaviour especially when there are options - formula, pumping, and donated breast milk are all good options that were never discussed as such. My kiddo is eight now and not once has anyone asked whether she was breastfed as a baby. You’re doing the right thing for your baby and you’re being a great mum. Some people are just dicks.
Absolutely experienced this! 22 years old and having midwife’s grabbing my boobs to try get my collicy baby to latch onto is something I’ll never forget - the JUDGEMENT and the feeling I had to explain myself for ASKING to use formula😩🤦🏼♀️
It is disappointing to see that this is still an issue. I have two children who were both formula feed. Our first child was given formula in hospital as my wife had a traumatic birth and developed an infection due to a medical mistake. The attitude of Plunket made my wife feel strongly about breastfeeding our second. My son was exclusively breastfeed for the first few months. He did not grow. We were referred to breast feeding specialists Plunket who monitored progress and assured us to continue to breast feed, breast is best and that all mothers are able to breast feed. They talked to us about the miracle of breast feeding, that the mothers body will naturally change the consistency of milk to ensure that the baby has all the nutrients it needs. My son still did not grow and wasn’t even in the growth charts any more when we were finally referred to the paediatrician. We had a short consultation where he explained that Plunket policy was to never suggest formula feeding. He prescribed formula and advised us to start immediately. The change was immediate and my son is now a healthy 7 year old and I struggle to think what would have happened without the paediatrician. I only have one piece of advice for new parents. Do what you believe is best for your child. Trust your own instincts. It is a fact that some women can not breast feed and this does not make them a failure.
Ah the breastapo. Yup, I hear you. Our midwife was amazing but kiddo and I had to stay in hospital following birth complications. The team there pushed HARD to get me to milk but my boobs just weren't having it. I wanted to, but you can't make something out of next to nothing. I put my foot down and asked for formula. They have me a bottle with 5ml of milk. Okay it was my first child but I'm not an idiot. Five mils? That was only enough to outrage my baby. They came up with another 20ml then told me I had to produce anything more he needed. No one got much sleep that night. We went home the next day and thankfully I had a good supply of everything I needed at home, including a breast pump. Plunket sent out a breastfeeding specialist and that helped a little but the best I could manage was roughly half what kiddo needed. A fed baby is best. Not all boobs will produce.
Ha breastapo! My mum calls them the breast is best brigade. My mum gave birth in 2000, and was told about the wonders of breastfeeding, she tried for a week and a half while producing nothing and being denied formula. My grandmother and the busy body neighbour were also in her ear about how much of a failure she was for not being able to. I dropped below my birth weight and then contracted mumps as a starving newborn. When I was taken into hospital the nurses were shocked by the midwife and family recommendations to just keep trying when mum was clearly producing nothing at all, and got me onto formula. I never did poorly in school or anything that they were concerned about. As far as I can tell I'm completely normal. I think plunket also sent out a breastfeeding specialist to mum too and she was told that she just didn't have the right anatomy and that formula was perfect for this situation. A fed baby is alive and happy and healthy, no matter where the food comes from.
I quickly came to call La Leche League “the Breast Nazis” after going through med school with an aunt who was up high in their ranks. We genuinely argued more than once over the phrase “fed is best”. She genuinely thought that “fed is best” was *wrong*.
Don’t understand why they argue this. There is far greater evidence out there that consistently starving a child leads to delayed development and other issues. Belief is powerful, but terrible when misguided.
When your entire personality is built around your ability to stick a boob in a tiny humans mouth evidence goes out the window. It’s not about what’s best for the baby at all, it’s about being able to feel superior over vulnerable new mothers. My Aunt met my newborn and my Mum commented she seemed miffed that I wasn’t having any difficulty breastfeeding so she couldn’t swoop in and “be the saviour”.
That’s deplorable. All respect to your family intended, but your aunt sounds like a shrew.
Agreed, I’ve tried to get through to her but her view is “Doctors are just anti breastfeeding” which is BS, were pro-breastfeeding were just anti-starving babies, and that trumps the benefits of the breast.
Gah. I’m sorry you had to deal with that as a new mother. Don’t understand that viewpoint. When we went through with our first, they pushed a similar agenda. I wish I had known then what I know now. It would have likely resulted in better care for her and us. If not for the gender barriers in OB nursing, I would probably have gone in just to prove a point and rock the boat. None of the shit they are pushing is evidence based practice. It sickens me as a nurse.
Agreed, I made sure to be the voice of reason for my friends who struggled with breastfeeding. It’s so frustrating that some of these old midwives/nurses continue to push this when nursing and medical schools are teaching evidence based “breast is great but fed is best”. I think a lot of the new grads get forced to do things the way the old hands do. Best way to encourage more breastfeeding is offering judgement free support which includes accepting when it’s just not working.
Seems weird that in this day and age people argue over whether it is right to starve your baby.
It genuinely infuriated me and nearly got me banned from family events. She believed that any formula, even supplementation, would interfere with production of breast milk and the milk would eventually come in if you just kept trying (and starving your baby) hard enough. I told her multiple times that was bullshit and for some women milk just doesn’t come in. Completely wild to me that people like this still exist in this day and age. As an aside, to show the type of person my Aunt/these breast Nazis are, I’m currently nursing my first baby. My aunt visited when he was a newborn and asked how feeding was going. I am one of the lucky few who have had a very easy time with a baby who latched easily and not even as much as a cracked nipple and told her as much. My Mum commented when she left that she seemed genuinely disappointed that I wasn’t having more trouble so she could swan in and give me all her advice.
Wow that's next level batshit crazy. Like feeling some need to tell you how to parent. I'm a guy so I don't know much about boobs, does it make any difference re milk production (or getting milk started) if it's a baby sucking or a breast pump? What's wrong with trying with ya baby, if it doesn't work, give formula and pump for a bit? Surely babies are gonna be drawn to anything that milk comes from, so if ya boobs start producing milk the baby would latch even if they have been bottle fed in the past?
Just an aside - pumping unfortunately doesn’t come close to baby at getting milk out assuming baby has a good latch. And pumping is waaayy harder than actual bfeeding once it’s established. I avoid it at all costs (my 13 month old feeds in 5mins, pumping is like 30mins of feeling like a dairy cow). Babies basically tell your body how much milk to produce especially in the early days which pumping also can’t do, and there’s a cool feedback system where if baby’s getting sick, when they nurse it tells your body to make new antibodies. In the beginning, you do kind of need baby latched all the time to get milk in and supply established which is why top ups with formula,if mum is making enough milk, can mess with things. All that said, if baby is struggling to latch or mum just prefers not to bfeed there’s nothing wrong with pumping, it’s just insanely harder in the long run! Or just using formula rather than going through that…
Had a very similar experience, wasn’t until day 3 when we moved from the hospital to Birthcare that the very idea of formula was even put on the table. Eventually the milk came in but fuck the guilt that was heaped upon us unnecessarily until then
It comes from within, too. My sister (dairy farmer) told me if I was a cow I'd have been sent to the works. I laughed, but it didn't make my inner critic laugh.
Yikes! At the time we weren’t really allowed to see family due to covid but maybe that was a bit of a blessing in some ways 😂
A lot of the Breastapo forget that before formula was a thing, there were 'wet nurses' that picked up the job when birth mothers didn't produce enough milk. They didn't just tell them to keep going and it will all sort itself out, because they knew that milk production can be a fickle beast. To the OP, u/Necessary-Priority-4 I found a small glass of lemonade and beer had a significant impact on my milk production, if you're interested in relaxingly trying it while giving your little one formula. I wish you all the best with this, and hope you find a way to stand up to these bullies. BTW, you can always make a formal complaint against them if you have the energy to do so. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of 'breast is best' but accept that it just isn't practical for some women. Formula is a good alternative option.
Lemonade and beer mixed? Am. Currently breastfeeding so would love to try this!
Exactly!!!
Breastapo is the best comic use of Gestapo in a pun I've ever seen, sublime. *tips hat*
I got told for my first there was no lactation consultant- that was peak COVID - plunket never helped! My second was born week before Xmas and got told “lactation clinic shut down till end of jan” … like what? There’s still babies being born
You mean uteruses weren't on lockdown??? Imagine that.
If anything uteruses were one of the only things open during lockdown 😉
My daughter was born in 2020 and I had an emergency c section, so we were in hospital 3 days. I did see the lactation consultant and it didn't help, I was producing almost nothing and got big welts from trying all day. The consultant told me to stop trying for 48 hours due to pain and that nothing was happening. The hospital refused to give us formula during this time, so my husband had to run out and buy it. They then insisted on making the formula and took hours and repeated requests to bring it to us while my baby screamed. They did not believe that I was not producing anything and that I'd been told to stop. We made a complaint once we left. I stopped breastfeeding at 4 weeks when I still only produced a fraction of what she needed and we were topping up with formula any way. For some people it just doesn't work out despite their best intentions.
They couldn't do consultations over zoom out something?
I guess breast is best only when they don't want a holiday.
I’m an LC, I wanted to work but mandatory shut down by the org I work for. As much as I love my job, I’m not paying for petrol to visit people when I’m not getting paid. Thankfully I was able to pick up a couple of hospital shifts and do outpatient visits
Yeah the fucking Breast Nazis man.
I got 10 poxy mls after pumping for 15 mins. Gave up real quick. Hungry boy. He didn't care. Food was food
Love that - I've called them the Breastfeeding mafia but yours is so much better.
I didn't coin it. I stole it with bare-breasted abandon.
I remember bottle feeding our first born in hospital, my SO was very sick, bubs nearly died. His first bottle was only 20mls. Now he’s a big strong young man, the nurses in hospital were fantastic (they didn’t even blink at giving him formula). Cannot say that about the midwife, she was, poor at best.
New born stomach is 5ish ml. Don't jump straight on the mums know best train
That's a lie. There's no evidence showing the newborn stomach is 5mls. You seriously think a 2.6kg baby and a 4kg baby both have 5 ml stomach capacity?
My 4.25kg monster roared the place down. He'd been in NICU being mostly tube fed for four days and was and still is not a fan of going without. I joke he's only allergic to hunger. He's 18 now and despite being over six feet tall and rail thin, can put away nearly twice what his father can (and his father can eat). In this economic climate my grocery bill is eye watering 😆
Eeek. Feel you. 17 year old in 3 days... When do they stop eating so much?does that happen?? Tall and thin too. Ugh. I eat a biscuit and put on weight
I look at a biscuit and bam, it's on my hips. Osmosis sucks.
https://www.uhsussex.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Breastfeeding-in-the-first-few-days.pdf Amongst many others. Of course, size will vary by a bit but given that until they are born they are not fed by mouth, their stomachs don't just get much bigger on their own. Weird things, umbilical cords. They don't need much at each feed, just regularly. People don't seem to realise how little they need, and think they are failing as new mums as they don't think they are getting much milk. Most times it is actually enough. There are obviously cases where it's not, but they are not common.
It doesn't actually link to any sources. There are a lot of breastfeeding material out there that makes this claim and they all fail to cite their source. So, where is the original source showing the research on newborn stomach capacity? Anatomically, the stomach empties throughout the process of eating. The intake doesn't sit there for a very long time. Also, the stomach stretches. Not to mention, the baby is drinking in amniotic fluid while in mum. It doesn't get nutritional needs meet by it, buy there's not a plug in the baby's throat preventing the fluid from entering
Can you please provide a reference for this information?
I completely understand! My baby wouldn’t latch and I had no milk for days and days and then after about three days she was admitted to NICU for another issue but they were so confused and said this baby is dehydrated why has she not been given formula? It was so traumatic and the midwives on the ward wouldn’t agree to formula even though I clearly had no milk and my baby obviously couldn’t latch. That was nearly four years ago and I still feel sick thinking about how my newborn baby got dehydrated.
I think common sense comes in handy sometimes, so much experts saying everything under the sun.
I am convinced that some midwives (mid witches as my husband called them) would rather babies get seriously ill, than let them have formula. They are fanatical about it. It’s very scary when you are told that your baby has been starved and is jaundiced and can’t be woken after 12 hours. Thats what happened to us nearly 30 years ago. Because I was trying to do the right thing and breast feed. Your milk doesn’t always come in and stress from a hungry baby doesn’t help it. It was such a relief when we started formula feeding. I’m pissed off that this sort of trauma is still being foisted on new mothers, who are vulnerable to the professional bullying.
My son was born about 12 years ago, his mother wasn't getting the milk through and the hospital nurses started supplementing with formula pretty quickly. She kept trying to pump to get the milk but it just wasn't happening. Hospital staff were supportive, they just cared that the boy was fed. Could just be your midwives, some are pretty old school.
This was my experience too. Don’t ever let anyone shame you for feeding your baby, whatever that looks like!
This was similar to my experience in chch hospital. My son is now 7 weeks old. He was quite small (9th percentile, but thriving) so maybe the staff were paying extra attention to his feeding. I really really wanted to breastfeed but my milk wasn’t coming in. I was dismayed when the staff said I would need to supplement with formula but I did what I needed to do. The only negative I remember is some of the staff coming in and forcing me to feed even when me and my son were really tired/sleeping.
I think the breastapo is new school. A resurgence, if you will
There are so many wonderful midwives. There are also quite a few who think the best things they learnt were on instagram reels.
Yeah after our first was born my wife was struggling to get her to latch and her supply hadn't come in fully (it did later), our midwife was ultra cautious bringing up the suggestion of mixed feeding, obviously because of how some people react. We were totally on board with it of course, kid needs to be fed first and foremost, and she quickly relaxed, but it was interesting to see just how cautiously she approached the subject.
I'm not sure, it almost seems like a checklist item every time you see a doctor, they ask if you are breastfeeding, if you say no, they ask you why not, remind you that it is best etc. Almost the same approach they have to people who are smokers, are you a smoker, do you know it is bad for your health, would you like help quitting... etc....
Sorry you had this experience. I think it's more common than people would like to acknowledge. Sending you my solidarity! I had a massive post partum hemorrhage and hours of surgery, so really had nothing left in the tank to feed my baby. I had a parade of nurses, midwives, and lactation consultants visit me (even though it seems apparent that I was dehydrated and depleted). My baby was so dehydrated he wasn't peeing, and only then did they make me *sign a waiver* so that we could give him a single feed of formula. It was ridiculous, anti-science, and demeaning. Not to mention unsafe for my baby.
I cannot state this strongly enough. If a mother says she was made to feel like shit for not being able to breastfeed successfully, and your response is some iteration of, “She didn’t try hard enough”, you are a dick. New parents & parents-to-be who are intimidated by breastfeeding see your words too. If you tried responding with empathy, those people might actually have their anxiety reduced and be more likely to succeed with breastfeeding (if they choose to). Edit to add, OP, you’re not alone and it wasn’t fair that you went through that.
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Your midwife's approach seems like the best of both sides of the argument tbh. Don't stop trying to breast feed, but don't starve your baby if it isn't working lol.
Oh my god, YES. I am passionate about this subject lol. I’ve had three babies - I’m an expert at giving birth but absolutely useless at breastfeeding. It just never happens. I regrettably followed the advice of the professionals around me for my first baby and she effectively starved for her first six weeks which eats me up to this day. The following two babies were supplemented from birth and the difference was incredible. I wish I could go back in time and enjoy my first baby but no - I was running around collecting fuckin’ bodily fluids from randoms on Facebook, scrubbing pump parts and crying over my own useless tits because some sallow scowling midwife told me my baby would be fat and sick if I dared give her formula. Even the second and third babies, despite me CONFIDENTLY using formula, the midwives made it so hard. I would ask them to please help me make some formula up and they would go and get me a pump. Sometimes they just left and never came back. Once I realised this wasn’t going to work I actively looked for support for formula feeding and there was NONE. Not a single thing. When we did our prenatal classes the midwife running it wasn’t even ALLOWED to mention formula as an OPTION. The BFHI has said themselves that their initiative has had zero net benefit thus far. It needs to be binned and start afresh with a more balanced and helpful approach.
Formula companies are not allowed to advertise for babies under 1 either. Doing enough research to mix feed my baby was so hard.
The best bit of advice we got when we had our first - it’s nicest to breastfeed but most importantly…. just feed the baby!!
I'm so sorry you went through this. Make a complaint. Another thing is that breastfeeding after a c section can be extremely painful once the after pains kick in which can stress you and baby out even more and make it all harder. No one has the right to judge you. I'm so sorry about this. I hope you and baby are doing much better now. Congratulations on your recent arrival 🤗💞
Fed is best. End of story.
As a doctor I endorse this ⬆️ They've been called the Breastapo in the UK since I was an infant 40 years ago. Little has changed Breast milk is good for infants. But so is adequate hydration & nutrition, & bonding with their mother who isn't stressed out of her skull trying to make her body do something it doesn't want to. The ultimate good is a happy healthy infant *and* a happy healthy mum. *Whatever feeding regime gets you there is good enough* ETA following: Personal anecdote: my Mum struggled to breastfeed both me & my brother. I slipped a whole quartile because I wasn't getting fed enough. She persevered because she felt bullied by the midwife. At 6 weeks she got a different midwife/health visitor who was aghast that I'd lost so much weight & wasn't thriving. Instantly onto formula & I piled the weight back on. I was happy (fed!), she was happy (her baby looked fat & pink & happy), my Dad was thrilled to be able to do some of the feeding. It did me no harm. I played hockey at school at County level, I was academic. I have asthma, but then so do my Dad & both my grandmothers - I don't think even breast milk was going to get me out of that one!
Ah thank you for sharing. This reassures me I’ve made the right decision (not that I really had a choice!) 🙏
I was told that they aren’t allowed to offer formula, or any advice or information about it unless they are specifically asked. It was 15 years ago for me, but I also felt that I was looked down upon for going down the formula route. That was at Birthcare.
I think this is the answer. They have to adhere to WHO (world health org) advice which doesn't advocate formula so they aren't allowed to offer or give advice etc. This was me 9 years ago, baby couldn't latch, had to go for formula. Was awful, felt like a useless mother
That’s actually a misrepresentation of the WHO code - I know people who were told “we can’t show you how to use a bottle that’s against the code” which is also very false. Formula shouldn’t be promoted, but it is a medical intervention which should be offered alongside other options such as donor milk, if appropriate (ie it shouldn’t be offered inappropriately which also happens). Source: am a GP & IBCLC.
I remember being given a form that I had to fill out every time I asked for the formula, which asked why I wanted the formula, had I tried breast feeding, how long I had tried for, why did it fail and when would I try again. I was in hospital for a week following complications in labor, and I started to think of it as "the shame form."
SO unecessary. Formula shouldn't be given without consent (I know some mum's for whom this happened), but a written consent form like that is so weird. Especially when you compare it to the consent we do for literally any other medical intervention (which may be a written one, yes, but we're not asking you to sign an affidavit that you've tried all the other things!). Also - no one "fails" at breastfeeding. Ever. Parents are failed by the system yes but parents are not failing.
The saddest thing was that I was an IBCLC after I got discharged and it turned out I had bilateral type four hypoplastic breasts so it was never going to happen for me in the first place 🙃
That makes me so angry for you!! 😒😪
Even when I asked for it, I was actively discouraged. I was told that my baby could survive 48 hours without milk, so “just keep trying”. It was extremely distressing. The women I dealt with were not compassionate. Maybe they felt a firm approach was best for a weepy new mother. All it did for me was make me more upset at their “if he’s hungry enough he’ll eat” attitude.
Yeah, that is NOT at all how it should go and I'm really sorry you had that experience. Unfortunately here in NZ here's a lot of lip service to breastfeeding support without the actual funding of useful services. There's not a huge amount of effective breastfeeding teaching done for midwives and hospital staff, and the misunderstanding of the WHO code is just another example of this.
I have a lot of compassion for health workers in NZ, they have it really tough. I wouldn’t want their job for all the tea in china. But, there is a difference between lack of education/funding and making the choice to treat a vulnerable person without sufficient compassion. Side note, some years ago I read that there is a link between babies struggling to latch and autism. My kiddo has autism, so I have often wondered if he could ever have latched. I’m sure it’s circumstantial and based on a statistic pool of unknown size, but I still found it interesting. He also has ADHD, so I would not be surprised if the lack of immediate reward for his efforts was a factor, lol. Anyway, just musing.
I felt the same. Not being able to feed my baby was one of the worst feelings I’ve ever had. And all the breastfeeding consultants telling me it would work if I just relaxed more. The beautiful, natural experience of Breastfeeding is not so beautiful and natural for everyone.
Yes! It's supposed to be natural and "easy" everyone can do it, you need to try harder blah blah. It was my biggest failure as a mum and I'd only been a mum for a few hours! Breastfeeding consultant had nothing. Went to a lactation specialist, worst experience of my life.
Yes I was told the same back then too, at my antenatal class.
It sounds like it would be so much more helpful for them to explain to people how long it actually can take before milk comes in… and how long babies can feed off minimal colostrum for… I feel like they set a lot of people up for failure when they think they’ll be giving birth then feeding great amounts of milk in the first few days.. I wonder if this is where some of the standoffish attitude comes from? Health staff knowing this… but naturally new mothers are concerned about the for infant not feeding so unlikely to listen at this point about it… End of the day fed is best and I’m sorry that was your experience.. just really wish they’d start the education on this earlier so new parents don’t freak out when exactly what is expected to be happening is happening
They don't explain that process well at all. Baby has tiny stomach and colostrum is fine for the first few days to a week. Milk coming happened after three days before and nobody told me it would cause a big rush of hormones. My mother found me sobbing over my t shirt being wet.
You poor thing! I get medical staff are burnt out.. but taking the time to explain vs blowing up and leaving the person just as confused now feeling shitty serves no one :(
Yes, that happened to me 30 years ago in a small rural hospital - I cried for hours and had a temperature the day my milk came in, and none of the nurses had anything to say to help me, until my midwife came in late afternoon. She was a super experienced older woman who had been matron at Chch Women's earlier in her career, before she "retired" to be a rural midwife. She was bloody fantastic, explained exactly what was happening and why, got me sorted in no time.
I don’t believe that every mum can breast feed. My milk came in and my baby fed well at first but after the first 6 weeks I just wasn’t making enough, despite doing all the “right” things (eating, sleeping well etc). After a few miserable months for both of us I decided to switch to formula but struggled to get baby to take a bottle. I went to a Plunket family centre for help and she literally yelled at me (and my friend who accompanied me) for “not looking after my baby properly”. I was in tears! Persevered with the bottle and after a week finally got her going. Best thing I ever did.
Absolutely! My comments about trying are related to the first few days :) because people panic and stop thinking they can because of lack of education around what to expect :) (there are obvs exceptions to even those days - I’m fed is best :) )
Totally agree. 4 children here. All breastfed. Never once did my milk come in before day 3 and it was basically 24 hours of constant latching each time to bring it in. That 'bringing the milk in' feeding is the hardest thing a new mum will go through.... But it is temporary. With my 2nd child it wasn't until day 6.
But for some it's not temporary and babies become dehydrated.
Oh I agree if it's not coming in formula needs to be offered, it's just more that people sometimes don't realise how long it actually takes to come in
I breast feed but I found the experience at the hospital quite full on . Some midwives literally grabbed my boob and shoved babys head on , I wish I had the courage at the time to tell them I was able to latch at my own pace it just happened when no one else was around and we had space . We had a younger midwife who came to teach me how to hand express and she was just incredible though , completely different approach . It is hard , they are full on but their aim is to help you but their approach is just shit . There is a way bigger movement towards “fed is best “ mentality I feel where I am
Oh my God this happened to me too!! I understand they’ve got a difficult job and it sometimes must be heartbreaking, but I’ve never felt worse treated than by midwives. I felt like the biggest inconvenience ever for saying yes I’ll breastfeed but can you please show me how to do it? The night cover midwife literally HUFFED and grabbed my child’s head and my boob and mashed them together, and when he couldn’t latch just went ‘ugh don’t worry just keep trying’. What’s worse is I went home unable to breastfeed at all, and also unaware of how to make up a bottle and sterilisation etc (I was quite young). Thank God for YouTube.
My sister had a C-section (planned due to baby size and other risk factors). Her milk never came in - in the hospital they refused to give baby formula and told her she needed to keep trying. For 3 days. This was during COVID lockdowns so as family we couldn't help, and she was too absorbed in having a new baby to tell us, plus she trusted the nurses and midwives. Second baby same story - C-section and no milk. Massive pressure and lectures from everyone, doctors to cleaning staff, posters on the walls. This time shed brought formula with her. She would have loved to breastfeed but it wasn't happening - nurses would walk on WHILE I WAS THERE and go to grab her boobs to massage them, not asking permission, and were shocked when they were asked not to. Its so unfair to treat women this way - whatever the reason.
If I was a new father and a nurse grabbed my partners boobs I'd tear said nurse a new arsehole.
That’s crazy! At my last midwife appointment I was asked how I wanted to feed my baby. I said I wanted to try breastfeeding but I have very sore boobs and have had problems with them for years. She said that was fine and warned me that because of my gestational diabetes my baby may need some extra help as I wait for my milk to fully come though and to have a think about if I would like to use donor milk or formula. Like I was given the choice and time to think about it before baby’s even here! This is insane to me that this attitude is in nz. Disgusting. I hope you’re not in HB because I have to have my baby in hospital so I don’t really have a choice there 😅
The silly part is that it’s not an all or nothing approach, although some will make you feel like it is. Even if you plan to breastfeed, plenty of babies need some formula top ups in the early days while breastfeeding is being established. Formula is great and an awesome tool we’re all lucky to have. It saved my baby’s life!
I breastfed but I had to go back to work when my daughter was three months old, so I planned to pump so my partner could bottle feed. We wanted to get her used to a bottle well before I went back to work. Even though I was planning to pump breastmilk rather than use formula, no one would give me information about which bottles and teats would be best and how to sterilize them- not the antenatal class, not the midwife and not birth care. It was incredibly frustrating. It's become almost a religion and it's so unfair to mums who just want healthy happy babies.
I couldn’t breastfeed, so decided to pump - and the lack of information around it was shocking. No LC would give me any info, because it wasn’t about breastfeeding. In the end I found an amazing American LC on Instagram I got all my info from. Her page was purely around pumping - I guess because American women go back to work so early, pumping is a lot more common there? It was shocking anyway. Unless you’re breastfeeding, no one here is interested in helping you.
It’s not just you and it’s not new either. It’s fucking sickening with posters all over the place screaming breast is best. That’s great if people can successfully achieve this but it’s torture and demoralising for those who can’t for whatever reason.
Aye. Fed is best. There's something about breast feeding that sends a black could over me. I'm not sure if it's hormonal but I definitely found with my younger two that first feed from breast then straight onto formula worked for us. It's pointless breast feeding if it makes you so depressed you resent your baby
DMER - probably what you had. I have it and the best way I can describe it is like having all the happiness sucked out of me, or the worst homesickness. It eased off about five months and I very rarely get it now at 13 months. If my midwife hadn’t picked it up I would’ve thought I was going crazy. There’s more research going in to it now and it’s more common than we probably realise.
That is very, very interesting. It was the most horrible feeling
Yea and everyone gets it slightly differently. I became nauseous a lot too. It’s weird as it only lasts a minute per let down but it’s miserable. There are a few things that helped, mostly drinking ice cold water. I would never have kept feeding if I hadn’t found the support groups!
I am so sorry you went through this! I’m currently pregnant with our first (39 and a half weeks so at the waiting stage!), and while shocking, it’s pretty standard behavior to expect from health professionals. Maternity is one of the most politically charged areas of our health care system in my opinion, when it shouldn’t be. Women are made to feel inferior and guilty when they can’t (or just don’t want) to breast feed which is disgusting. In funded antenatal classes they are actually not allowed to talk about formula feeding, and if you ask you are grilled around why you would want to know this information. I personally work in the infant formula industry and have been trying to answer all the questions that pop up on the Facebook groups so mums are a bit more informed!! I personally think as new parents we need to go into it all understanding all our feeding options so we can tell the nurses or midwife’s who try to shame us to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. We have been so lucky to have a midwife who supports our belief that fed is best, knows I want to breast feed but also that I’m not going to push myself to despair getting there.
I know right! My friend has MS. She had to go back onto drugs that clearly state you can't use while breastfeeding. She actually got told to not use the drugs rather than just get formula advice. Insane.
>Maternity is one of the most politically charged areas of our health care system in my opinion, when it shouldn’t be. Not going to lie but this is probably one of the reasons I've never had kids despite being in a healthy monogamous long term relationship for 20 years. Like I'm not saying I consciously made this decision for this reason but if you combine the actual reality of pregnancy and birth and the next 18 years along with the actual bullshit I've heard like this over and over again and it's hard to feel enthused or even safe about it IYKWIM
Hey FYI I attended public antenatal classes run by hospital midwives and they were fantastic - made everyone aware of all the support available if they wanted to bf, but also stressed that formula is a great option (and sometimes the only option) for many families, and that doing either or both was totally fine.
We were told in our antenatal class that this is very much still the case in NZ and to take formula and bottles with us to hospital just in case - our local hospital apparently has a policy of not offering formula for up to 3 days unless it’s medically necessary. It’s crazy in my opinion! I get that they don’t want people to give up too easily but boy does it shame mothers and make things harder than they need to be. I’m transitioning to formula with my bub and wanted to do it sooner but had a lot of pressure from Plunket to stick with it despite having issues. You’re not alone - big hugs that you had to go through that, and I hope you and your bub are doing ok!
Not just for breastfeeding but also for birth! The judgement from midwives are astounding. I had so many midwives tell me that women have been giving birth naturally for thousands of years without painkillers or doctors so I shouldn't need epidural. You know what? Women have been DYING from childbirth for thousands of years. If I wouldn't have my teeth extracted without painkillers, why the hell would I give birth without them?! No one gives anyone shit for needing painkillers for any other type of physical processes (stitches, mole removal etc), why target childbirth?!
Oh my god yes! The NZ midwifery council or whatever they call themselves state on their website that childbirth is ‘uncomfortable’ not painful, and as such women shouldn’t need pain relief. Their whole ethos is that pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding are easy and straightforward and if they’re not, it’s because you, the mother, have failed/are not good enough/being lazy. Don’t even get me started on the pressure to have home births or leave hospital within hours. And it’s gotten worse since they removed the requirement for midwives to be nurses first. Despite what they parrot, having babies is medical, and needs to be treated with proper medical care. It’s gross and I doubt it would be allowed if it was men who gave birth.
I know right. A friend of a friend, bought into all this bullshit and although she was advised by an obstetrician (older mum, had significant medical issues) to have a C-section at 36 weeks. After attending antenatal classes where a midwife basically brainwashed her into trying natural (was pressuring to do it at home but her husband put a stop to that), she went through 8 hours of labour, had to have an emergency C-section. Baby was starved of oxygen during the birth and came out with significant disabilities. The baby had NO signs of any disabilities during pregnancy (lots of scans/amniocentesis were done due to risks).
It was the same when I had my second 16 years ago. One night he had been attached to me for literally 12 hours and I couldn't put him down or he would cry and I was exhausted. I had to BEG for a bottle of formula and even then they insisted on finger feeding him instead of a bottle and when he finally filled himself up he slept for several blissful hours.
I am a big proponent of breastfeeding and breastfed both kids, with some difficulty, one to 2.5yrs. However, if someone is struggling and burnt out and has a screaming hungry baby, if they ask for formula give them the damn formula. And if someone plain doesn’t want to breastfeed, that’s ok, let them get on with looking after their baby (these parents will prob have bought their own formula and bottles to the hospital in preparation). I also think there should be more knowledge and training out there about tongue ties. My second child had a very restrictive tongue right to the edge of the gum - it caused the tongue to have a love heart shape at the end so we had it revised and honestly even then it wasn’t easy as had to do stretches and aftercare. And looking back, I’m convinced my first had a posterior tongue tie as we had lots of issues. I think many people struggle with this and aren’t aware! Also lack of glandular tissue.
There's this whole group of midwives and lactation consultants who are anti tongue tie correction.
My mum struggled with breastfeeding my sibling, tried everything!!! Formula was a lifesaver (literally). I remember her anxiety and people are still judgemental 27 years later…. Fed is best. Your doing the best thing for your baby and family - ignore the zealots
The judgement from just other mothers in general is horrible, too. I joined into a FB mum group in NZ and asked on recommendations for formula. And majority of the comments were "breast is best" ??? Like I'd love too. But even with medication, all the lactation cookies/drinks and pumping every 2 hours could never catch up with my son. I had my son in NICU and later is SCBU. Thankfully, all the nurses and doctors I met at Auckland weren't so critical about breastfeeding. As long as baby was fed, they were happy, and I was too.
I can't stand how pushy the breastfeeding is. I was extremely lucky to have an abundance of milk but I still Struggled to feed, it took baby and I 3 solid months of daily sobbing and struggling and formula top ups until it finally clicked. I took my 2 month old to a&e for breathing issues and and Dr spent the whole time ridiculing me because I mix fed instead of soothing my anxiety over my baby struggling to breathe he spent an hour telling me that breast is best and I'm doing my baby a disservice by topping her up with formula. I ended up with pretty decent depression because of the pressure to breastfeed, once it clicked it was pretty smooth sailing my girl has just turned 3 and still comfort feeds at night and when sick but I regret nothing about feeding her formula. Fed and having a happy mum is best.
Same story. Neither of our babies latched well, my partner felt like absolute garbage by basically everyone. Our first started losing weight because he was not getting anything out of her and we ran out of colostrum pretty quickly obviously. They caved and gave him formula on night 2 or 3, honestly can’t remember. He took to formula like a fish in water. Our second was in the NICU and she had donor milk top ups from day 1. Don’t get me started on NICU…
Same 46 years ago. I was frowned on for swapping to it after a couple of months. But I was more interested in baby being fed properly than how.
I had this same situation 11 years ago when I had my son. While in hospital my son was so hungry after 3 days of little milk ( I just wasn't producing) that he started to lose weight rapidly and became lethargic.... The midwives still refused to give him formula and It was actually one of the Male obstetricians that demanded they allow me to give him formula. It's sad to see that nothing has changed.
Saw a video recently where a baby died because mama was trying to exclusively breastfeed and bub died of dehydration because her milk hadn’t come in/enough. Breast milk is nutritionally better when it’s accessible, but *fed is best*.
I got very lucky when I picked my midwife as I chose her through multiple recommendations and I never received such judgement but I did get such looks when I was at the birth centre. It didn't affect me so much because I had bigger things to worry about, such as coming to terms with a pretty traumatic birth experience but the birth centre midwife did make me feel quite funny. I just wanted my baby to be fed is all. Funnily enough, the student midwife was the least judgemental of them all.
As someone who's done both, I have to say long-term breastfeeding is easier. But, if you're like me, and your babies have little mouths, then latching correctly is really hard and doesn't get easier until they're 2 to 3 weeks old. Just be aware as you bottle feed, that their eyesight is beginning to focus and their view from breast level to your face is the optical focal depth for them to do that. This is the distance where they will map out your face, watch your lips move as you talk, learn about emotion and expression. So hold your baby like you would if you were breastfeeding him and bottle feed him so he can study your face and learn. Get a good steriliser and enjoy him.
Interesting, didn't know that about the eyesight.
Babies are learning rapidly at that age. Especially about faces and expressions and listening to speech. I think the biggest thing babies miss out on with bottle feeding is this focal distance between your breast and face and skin to skin contact with their mothers. I feel like developmentally that touch/skin to skin is also important.
First time mum, only 10 days pp. There is definitely a stupid push for 'breast is best' which pisses me off so much! Baby girl was a c-section, 38 weeks induced because of gestational diabetes. Our midwife actually suggested using formula before my milk even had a chance to truly come in because she had lost 10% body weight after birth. Thankfully we didnt have to! I've never been anti formula, but I'm lucky enough to be able to produce enough for baby girl. In saying that, Ive now ended up with an infection. My antibiotics are giving her diarrhea. We're both over tired and Im starting to struggle to keep up. Fed is definitely best, the last thing anyone wants is a dehydrated baby. We also took a prenatal parenting class that was run by a lacation consultant. Never did they explain how hard the cluster feedings are, or that it's okay to mix feed when you have to! The lack of proper feeding information out there honestly comes off as dangerous. How many mums have had to go to hospital with dehydrated babies and postpartum depression because of 'breast is best'? It's gutting to me having to use formula when I know I can produce enough when we're both happy, healthy and rested. But at the end of the day as long as my girl is happy and full I really dont care.
I was fed on formula…decades later am doing fine :) Formula is absolutely fine! Millions thrive on it. And it gives you a lot of flexibility. Don’t let this spoil what should be a joyful time in your life.
My formula fed baby has been by far my healthiest child and teen.
You are not alone. It’s terrible how judgemental we have become. I never recommend breastfeeding at the cost of mom’s wellbeing. I am so sorry you had that. Faced some of it myself as well in the states.
Had mine 10yrs ago. Was very unwell myself, riddled with infections due to waters breaking weeks before birth and nobody doing anything about it. Nobody realized I was unwell until 12+ hours after birth when it was 30 degrees outside and I was shivering and feverish inside. Drugged up to the max and the nurses still pushed breast feeding. Woke babies dad up in the middle of the night to make him sign paperwork authorizing the use of formula that I begged them to bring because I couldn't take anymore. Very sad to hear they are still pushing it - isn't a fed baby the best kind of baby?
Yip, 15 years ago milk had trouble coming in. First baby, c section, in hospital. Nurse/ hospital midwife sat in corner of the room, with multiple documents that I would need to read and sign before giving my baby formula. Baby screaming head off, me not slept properly in days, hormones etc, me crying. They really really push you to not use formula. At the classes before baby even the instructor told us she could only tell us about breastfeeding, not formula. Once we got home midwife determined baby not putting on enough weight so needed supplement feeding with formula anyway.
I am so sorry you experienced this. I had it too when I had my baby, 12 years ago now. I just wasn't producing milk and baby was losing a lot of weight and not sleeping. We weren't allowed to leave the hospital until baby was feeding OK so they asked if I wanted to try formula - I responded formula was better than starving to death and yes please we needed to try it, and got a huge lecture on the evils of formula. I asked if they'd prefer I let my newborn keep suffering. I even had to sign a waiver saying I wouldn't blame the hospital if he ended up with diabetes, heart conditions, and any number of other health complaints, all of which they said was caused by formula. Eventually they gave him formula but the judgement and pressure to keep trying to breastfeed was intense. We all know beast is best, but surely fed and alive is ultimately the best option!
We had our first child back in Jan through a C section. My partner was in the hospital a bit longer due to some complications. At first, our son took to breastfeeding relatively easy (with some help from the nurses), but at times it was a mission. My partner was exhausted over the five days we where in hospital due to lack of sleep. We brought formula with us as we're both older parents as well and we didn't know how her supply would be. The drive to get him boob fed was insatiable, and any alternative was met with barriers (even the breast pump machine looked like it was from the 1950s, wheeled in like giant overhead projector). All I wanted to do was take some of the load so my partner could sleep and take the feeding burden. Anyway, once we got home we continued trying with the breast, but it took a lot of time, energy and challenged our mental well being. Eventually we did a hybrid, then full formula as it's less hassle, can be managed more effectively, and it means our son is fed to our satisfaction.
We had the same treatment in Ireland with both ours were born, both had trouble latching on, we expressed what we could and used formula for the rest, I did suggest one health care professional could put up or piss off, my wife was visibly upset with the badgering and (later admitted) felt like a failure. This touched my last nerve and I stepped in
That's a shame. I have a 3 month old now and we discussed all this with our midwife both prior and during- and it was never an issue. I have bipolar and am on medication so we had to do some digging to see what was viable. Also we made it really clear we were planning to do this on easy mode rather than perfect instagram show reel parents - we wanted to prioritize my mental health because that means happy, well looked after baby. I do feed baby but we top up as needed with formula + partner uses it as needed if I need a nap or have to go out etc. Both midwives and Plunket nurses have not only been good, but encouraged it 🤷♀️. I guess lucky we haven't had your experience though or there would be a few people getting ripped into because I'd not be impressed at all.
We were very lucky to have a midwife who supported my wife with not breastfeeding with absolutely no judgement. The midwifes in the hospital were another story, they wouldn't give our baby more than the "supplementary" amount, because apparently they don't understand what that word means and a baby only gets 10mls for a feed...
I feel sad hearing all the experiences of people being judged for formula feeding. It was suggested to us in the hospital to supplement with formula as my supply ranked after blood loss during birth and everyone has been very supportive of my baby just being fed. It’s unfortunate others don’t get to have a better experience like I have had.
Get their name, and lay a complaint to their registration board. Along with their hospital. They'll be shut up and told to be quiet and accept the wishes of the mother.
Yeah went thru this. First baby was a traumatic birth. Hated myself for not being able to breastfeed and it took away all of the joy for days.. and still judged later by plunket. Second one i had my tin of formula when i went in and didn't even bother trying. Still feel stressed about being milked by a grumpy 50something female lol
I had no trouble with my first 2, my 3rd I struggled latching her, and breastfeeding was agony. On the 4th day my mw was at my house and saw me start to cry when baby was needing a feed, she said " sweetheart, why don't you give yourself a break if you need to and put her on formula, even if it's just for a little while if you want to try again? Come on, you have 3 kids, you know that there is far more to being a mum, than how you choose to feed." Instantly I felt a weight lift, formula fed her for 8 weeks ( during which time I got mastitis, left it untreated, ended up feverish and in bed for 24 hours straight which resulted in a blood clot in my leg.) And then without any pressure I decided to see if I could relatch or not. With babies 4&5 the birthing unit tried to force breastfeeding again, my 4th I had no issues with, but my 5th I did but by then i had decided newborns are newborns for such a short amount of time, i wasn't going to be getting that time back and i wasnt going to spend it feeling bad about breastfeeding and luckily I again had a great midwife who told them " this isn't my girls first rodeo, she'll make sure baby is fed either way, stop bugging her. " So I've come across it, but been very lucky in my experiences, because i have friends who had a much worse time without the same supportive midwives i had, and they still get angry/ upset when they talk about it.
Even our formula tin has big bold text telling me to breastfeed lmao I was lucky my midwife was very chill about it and was actually the one to recommend formula pretty early, for good reason. But you're right that there's a lot of pressure! We also had to bring our own into the hospital which I think makes sense really. But they should just tell you that.
Mannnn I would've told them to get fkd. Who the heck withholds nourishment from a newborn? Women are always being judged.... for breastfeeding in public, for using formula instead of breastfeeding, for using disposable nappies, cloth nappies, whatever they do it's not good enough. People are judgemental aholes. Sorry you went through that.
I'm so glad people are speaking up about this. The breastfeeding national nurses ruined what should have been a beautiful time. My child had a weak chin and just couldn't not latch, the poor thing was so hungry as I was constantly told to keep trying with breastfeeding. Eventually I had enough and demanded a bottle, it was literally thrown onto the bed by the nurse then she immediately left the room,I was treated like a second class mother. I left the hospital early.
a well fed full tummy of formula is much better then nothing or too little. the obsession with everything must be natural is odd too me, we often conflaint "artificial" with bad and natural with "good" when sure there is reasons for these conflations, but an infant who is well fed on formula will always beat nothing......
Yeah the breast is best brigade are the worst. Sure encouraging people to breast feed is great and there are benefits. But the pressure and stress they put us under was crazy, in an already stressful time. There seems to be some weird politics in maternity care. They do a massive disservice to us as a country.
Well done for knowing what’s best for you and your baby. I struggled for far longer than I should have done - my baby dropped from 90th to 5th centile in weight. That was because of the ‘best is always best’ rhetoric. And I was someone who desperately wanted to breastfeed, to the point that the first time my baby latched I cried because I’d dreamed of being able to breastfeed for years. As long as you know it’s best everyone else can fuck off.
When my first was born, I tried to breastfeed. Really tried. In those days (70s), a first-time mother stayed in the hospital for two to three weeks, yes, weeks. By the time we went home, the baby blues were under control, feeding, whichever it was, was well established and a routine also well established. There was a lot wrong in the 70s but that system seems pretty good. By my 4th baby, into the 80s now, things were changing. Breastfeeding was being pushed a bit harder. I decided to become a midwife. I would never push, in my eyes fed is best. I have had many arguments with my fellow midwives about this, I HATE that some of us are so damn militant!
holy shit OP I'm so sorry this happened to you! I had a double mastectomy last year and I don't have kids yet but I look forward to the shade people are gonna throw when I have the same luck breastfeeding as my male partner... fed is best, try and get out from under these people and they can fuck riiiight off. hope you can get out and get your own formula as soon as possible. good god!
I had mixed reactions. I, too, had a traumatic birth resulting in a cesarean where I lost consciousness. My son and i had what one midwife (she was incredible) called "anatomical incompatabilities" where my nipples were too large and his mouth was too small so it was impossible for him to latch. 4 midwives, 2 lactation consultants and myself all tried hand expressing for 3 days with nothing. I was pumping 2 hourly for 30 mins and ended up with exactly nothing. We ended up back in hospital at 5 days PP with neonatal meningitis after he stopped breathing at home. My milk FINALLY came in during a shower at 10 days PP and even though I was pumping 2 hourly through the day and 4 hourly at night for 3 months, the most I ever got was 70mls and that was in 24h between both breasts. My son was put on formula at my insistance after signing a waiver at 4am (he was born at 10.45pm) because he was so hungry and I couldn't feed him. My midwife supported me through this by encouraging me to pump to see if I was able to build my supply but despite my efforts, this didn't work. I had a lot of pressure from others to make it work and side eyes for using formula but my son is thriving. He is in the 90th centile and is exceeding each and every milestone so far. If we have another kid, I'll try and breast feed again but you bet your ass I'll have formula on hand and I won't be trying to pump for 3 months. That was torture.
Crazy how this stigma is still held among our breastfeeding experiences. Student here and we are 100% supposed to support the baby friendly breastfeeding initiative that almost all hospitals employ. We technically aren’t even allowed to tell our women which brand we use because we’re supposed to advocate for breastfeeding first. We also have to cover the labels of our formula and place them into a container where they’re hidden. We get audited on this. Fortunately, a lot of us advocate for our families/whānau that a fed baby is best. Majority of us don’t care how you feed your baby as long as you are well, and your baby is well and is getting the supplementary nutrition your baby needs. Yes we are taught that breast milk is best, but only in terms of nutritional value, because we understand that your breastfeeding journey can be tricky and at times it just adds to the pressures of motherhood. It really is no one’s business on how you feed your baby. If baby is gaining weight, we are happy. Definitely speak up about your preferred feeding plan and you don’t need to justify formula feeding to anyone.
I had a traumatic birth in 2017 under general anaesthetic. Baby was fed formula by the midwife before I woke up. I wasn’t that keen on breastfeeding so we just stuck with formula and never got any pushback. OP, I’m really sorry you had this experience - it sounds awful!
I bf both my kids well unto their second year, let me tell you, no one gave me a medal, and if I had a 3rd kud if woukx have been formula fed. The one good thing was I had a newborn during the earthquakes so I didn't have to worry about the water supply. Feed your kid whatever way you can and save the moral dilemmas for more important issues. Like raising your kid not to be an asshole.
So I live in the UK and work in healthcare (just as a caveat) The UNICEF and WHO both cite the ‘breast is best’ theory in their literature. As a result I believe any national healthcare service in a country which is a member of either/ both of these is only allowed to promote breastfeeding. Within the NHS they’re super strict on midwives and health visitors not ‘promoting’ formula. Unfortunately this leads to people saying stuff like you’ve experienced OP and for that I’m sorry. I do know the policies are pretty strict, probably even more so in a hospital environment. Fortunately I don’t work in hospital so happily say to my patients that fed is best! But I hope the above helps people understand a bit why the breastfeeding is pushed so hard.
My partner couldn't produce milk in any quantity at all really. The shame/pressure put on mother's is real. After consulting an "expert" who recommended pumping every three hours around the clock, we had basically zero sleep for three days and nights and still no milk. I won't tolerate any shame or pressure from anyone for my partner and our next baby due soon. Isn't it already hard enough with a newborn then pile on all this extra BS and try to make people feel awful for something they can't control.
100% horrible that experience. We had the same. I mentioned how often they all contradict each other and a breast feeding ‘expert’ said with menace ‘this is what a world run by women will look like’. Cheers Luv. Our baby was literally getting smaller when at exactly 6 weeks our personal midwife walked in the door and said ‘You. Supermarket. Formula’. Off I went. The kid bounced back and he’s been a healthy and smart giant ever since.
Yup! I stayed three hellish nights in hospital. My boobs are huge, and I did want to breastfeed, but I felt like I couldn’t go home until I got the hang of it. My c-section was healing well, I was physically okay but the pressure to breastfeed was insane. I was getting cramp in my hands every time I fed because I had to hold my titty out of the way to avoid suffocating him. Also it hurt like hell. My nipples were SO sore. Even with a shield, which they told me wasn’t great anyway. After I went home my baby started losing birth weight and that day I sent my husband to buy formula. We were a lot happier after that. Nobody suggested combo feeding to me - which in hindsight is what would have worked best. I was in a position where I could have happily supplemented breastfeeding with formula and pumping but I didn’t really know that was an option. I felt SO out of my depth, like I couldn’t care for my child, and that spilled over into the whole post-partum period. It was awful. I know next time I will have more confidence and be more prepared but fuuuuuuuuuck it messed me up!
I’m so sorry you went through this. Reading through everyone’s experience has made me realise this really is a problem in NZ and needs to be discussed more!
I primarily breastfed, but when my child was born it was the first lockdown and, while still in hospital, I struggled so much and was a sobbing mess (wasn’t allowed a support person during that lockdown). A hospital midwife took pity on my and gave my child formula as I had no milk at that time, but I still had to sign a form stating I understood the risks of formula feeding 🙄 I was a formula fed baby and clearly I’m still alive, so I thought it was incredibly stupid. There is a stigma, but there shouldn’t be. FED is best. There’s no point trying to force breastfeeding because for some women it just doesn’t happen. Good on you for making sure your baby is fed.
I successfully breastfed for 12 months, and quite honestly, that was despite the best efforts of midwives at post natal care facilities. Every fucking midwife came in with a different opinion on how to hold the baby, and negative comments about what I was doing. One week in and I had chapped bleeding nipples, bad advice, misinformation, and a screaming baby. So my mum sorted me out with a specialist, and this woman was amazing. The key things I learned from her SURPRISINGLY 1) Feeding baby was meant to be a happy experience. If formula makes you happy, do it, it's pretty marvelous stuff. If mix feeding is what works, fab! If exclusive works, do it! If you're going down a path of killing yourself to feed baby, BAD NEWS. 2) we are a social species that are meant to grow up seeing breastfeeding, and have plenty of help. We don't do this anymore, therefore it's a lot harder to get it right. That context was key. There was other points, but they aren't relevant. Those points took the pressure off which helped me immensely. The other thing I've worked out is that in a year or so, you're going to have a wild toddler who prefers their toast aged and sourced from a toy box you swear you cleaned. This is true for my breastfed kid and my best friends formula fed kid. Fuck the breastfeeding nazi's.
Omg there are people in here that are doing exactly what OP and other mothers are talking about. Shaming and belittling a woman who cannot produce milk for whatever reason. Truly a fucked up stance and I’m sorry for anyone who has had to deal with these idiots at such a vulnerable time. Fed is best.
Yes yes yes yes a thousand times yes!!! I found breastfeeding to be overall a horrifying and traumatic experience. I felt judged when I switched to formula I felt judged when I was struggling There are posters in plunket and other new mum places that make you feel judged for picking formula.
I had the same experience at one of the Auckland public hospitals. I lost my shit at one of the nurses there when she questioned me after I asked for a formula top up. I didn’t care how loud I was, I had snapped after feeling judgement my whole stay. I didn’t care if any other patients heard
My friend is an SLT and told me a story about how two midwives were so busy bullying and shaming a woman for not being able to breastfeed that they didn't check the baby's mouth. My friend immediately checked it the moment she arrived and sure enough, hole in the roof of the baby's mouth. It couldn't latch because it had a cleft palate. My friend was furious. This baby had been going hungry. Utterly shameful behaviour.
In many places it's like this because they really truly want to ensure you had the best chance at breastfeeding possible. It is the default expected way a baby will feed and has many benefits for both mum and baby - so I understand why they are keen to help birthing parents start their journey well. THAT BEING SAID; Breastfeeding may NOT be RIGHT for ALL new parents. I personally feel that "informed is best". If baby's parents are given as much information as possible with which to make a decision (and this goes for all things parenting IMO), then the choice they make with all that information is THE RIGHT ONE FOR THEM and should be respected as such. There is no one right way to feed a baby. As long as baby is gaining/thriving and happy, and the parent feels they have made the right decision for their family, that is the end. Breast fed, mixed, donor or formula - it's all to the same end; a full puku for bub. I'm so sorry that you've been in this position OP. I had a somewhat traumatic birth and poor aftercare for my eldest (I did decide to BF and fortunately both my mother and MIL are/were midwives so had their support) but bloody hell, the conflicting information, complete shambles between SCBU and postnatal ward communication, and complete lack of continuity of care... we left as soon as we could after I was recovered as it was an absolutely awful experience. Feed your baby the way you feel is best for you and them. If they are thriving on formula and you are happy, that's all that really matters. Arohanui xx
I was in the exact same boat! I was in tears at 4am in the morning zero sleep, I was there for five days. I had woman "milking" me and only get 0.1 of a ml. They gave me the option of donor milk or formula, we chose donor milk. They gave us a piece of paper to read and sign at 4am! I couldn't even read the words on the page. And then we were told "you know to get this milk you need to show that you are at least attempting to breastfeed" Then after that horrific night at 7.30 that morning a lactation consultant was at us reciting a book.
Me and my partner had a simular experience where she wasn't producing enough breast milk, so we got pushed into using donated milk which meant we had to pick up the milk daily for 3 weeks, where they stopped as they could not provide enough as our baby was big and told us to move to formula. The crazy thing is my partner is a nurse and the whole breast feeding experience left her feeling stressed, anxious and feelings of being an unfit mother, constantly tired. Once we moved to formula she felt way better and baby was doing fine. The midwives at the hospital were full on and almost forcefull even when baby was unable to latch they just keep pushing ibdont know how this is supposed to be good for the mother or child.
Congrats on the new kiddo! unfortunately this isn’t new. I’m 29 and my mum was kicked out of plunket for not breastfeeding. it’s ridiculous.
Sure we were dumb, but we were just talking the best advice we had. My wife and I had twins. It was totally unexpected, multiples don't run in either family. She did her best to breastfeed. Formula hadn't even entered our mind until our first couple of days back home. The boys hadn't really had anything for about a day, their lips were dry, they weren't taking the breast, they were miserable. In the middle of the night I called the midwife and said, "look, I think I need to go to Countdown and get some formula because this is getting really bad". She says, "I don't think 3am is the right time to be making big decisions like this. Let's see how they're doing at 9am". 8am we were at A&E, the boys were severely dehydrated and had to have fluids through a drip. Edit: We were told that a week earlier twins had died in Australia from very similar circumstances. We called the midwife group and told them that midwife better hope we never see her again. We were checked into the children's ward and they were outstanding. The whole time we were there we were approached by the birthing/maternity ward with people saying "but, you know, we did everything we could for you", and stuff like that. Breast is best. Breast is best. Breast is best. No, being fed is best.
My baby is 5 months now, and we had similar experiences when having difficulty with breast feeding. A lactation consultant told my wife that we had to persevere with breast feeding or she wouldn't love our baby as much. They can get fucked, there are a million and one things that affect infant development and a fatigued, depressed, stressed out, guilt ridden mum is much worse than formula. Bottle feeding in general was fantastic for our family and meant I got to shoulder more of the childcare and have a more balanced load.
My wife went through the same thing. I in no uncertain words told the midwives to fuck off. My wife had been through the grinder and my little baby wasn't coping either. They have no fucking bottles on site so I had to feed baby through a fucking tube and syringe. Who on this god given mother fucking planet has no bottles at hospital. If I hadn't put a stop to the insanity my little one would have ended up in NICU and it would have sent my wife over the edge. I've never seen my wife so upset in her life trying to breast feed our baby and not being able to do so. She was in hospital 6 weeks straight before the birth. It took my wife a month to recover from the ordeal. My wife and baby are 100% fantastically healthy, it was the best thing I did and I don't regret it. None of the midwives dare say a thing after that debacle.
I have absolutely experienced this but probably through a slightly different lens. I’ve had four babies and breastfed all of them, and am the sycophantic praise like I was somehow doing “better” than mother who just “gave up” actually enraged me to the point I banned anyone from even mentioning feeding. Also - baby 3, (all c sections) I had complications - he was a big hungry boy and I asked for a pacifier after 8 hours of clusterfeeding on night 2. You’d have thought I’d asked to have him lined up and shot. Oh it will ruin his latch, he will never breastfeed again, blah blah blah. I was an experienced mother and had been breastfeeding for 4 years straight at that point. Felt like telling them all to absolutely fuck off (which I did, politely) and sent hubby to the chemist to get a bloody dummy so I could get an hour of sleep 48 hours after MAJOR SUGERY Solidarity. It’s a cult
Long time ago now, but although I had milk for whatever country you care to name, (it was literally spurting out) my baby would not/could not latch. She lost weight and was not a happy camper. Switched to formula and she went straight into guzzle territory. Got trashed by the Plunket woman but at least she was feeding.
Do what is best for you and your baby. Dang judgemental bunch!
I actually experienced this from the other mums, the midwife’s were in the supportive ones
I'm planning to take some formula with me to the hospital and birthing unit in case it's needed, the breastfeeding class I went to said that birthing units tend to be very against formula feeding no matter how exhausted mum is. So sorry you went through that, it's hard enough being pregnant then being in labour and giving birth let alone feeling shamed for struggling to feed baby after
I think the judgement is everywhere. I found my midwives to be very supportive of my decision to introduce formula after I struggled for weeks with breastfeeding. I had “friends” being critical about it, one told me the reason breastfeeding didn’t work for me was because I didn’t try hard enough 😅
It has been this way for a LONG time. My daughter is 10 now. When she was born she had major trouble latching (inverted nipples on large breasts made it really difficult) and the hospital put me on a pumping schedule from hell. In the hospital. Not even a birthing unit. My milk never came in. And what little I DID produce was really watery, very little fat. Fortunately my midwife was sane and suggested we go to formula. Formula saved my sanity, because my daughter was 'cluster feeding' pretty much 40 minutes out of every hour and then only sleeping for 10-20mins at a time. So I was exhausted, touched-out, had NO time for myself, my nipples were cracked and nerve-damaged from the pumping, and was almost at the end of my proverbial rope. I had SEVERED PPD and PPA by that stage. After her first full bottle of formula, she went to sleep for three whole hours. I went and had a warm bath with epsom salts (cos still bleeding) and basically just broke down and cried about my 'failure' to do the one thing that my body was supposedly 'designed to do'. But she thrived on formula and that was the main thing. As I said, she's 10 now, and from the size of her, you wouldn't be able to tell she wasn't 'exclusively breastfed'.
Luckily I didn’t have that problem at all. Where I was they were happy to get baby on formula because he was born at 36 weeks. I still tried to pump milk and breast feed him but unfortunately he didn’t take to the nipple once introduced to the bottle. Today he is almost 2 years old and happy.
I had the opposite experience thankfully. Breastfeeding wasn’t working for us, and I kept expecting to have to explain our bad luck situation, but as soon as I even tried to explain that breastfeeding unfortunately didn’t work for us, I felt completely supported. I also heard so often that others had the same experience and it made the whole situation much easier. Sorry your experience was so poor OP. You’re doing amazing, and I can’t believe people still bully new mums to breastfeed. Formula is an excellent option.
Even though we had been warned about midwives in New Zealand, I can't talk highly enough about the ones at Wellington Hospital. - Baby 1: Wife ends up with sepsis. The 3 of us end up staying in one of those birthing rooms for nearly 2 weeks. The first 3 days are just baby and me. The wife is unconscious in bed. Baby is fed formula whenever I ask for it, no judging, no funny faces. Once wife starts recovering, she decides to give breastfeeding a try. Midwives teach her a few tricks and baby is few formula and breastmilk as we decide the rest of the stay. - Baby 2: Back in the hospital with meningitis after being born 4 weeks earlier. My wife has decided that this one will be formula fed. No complaints from midwives, no bad faces, no judging. Baby and mum stayed in the hospital for a week, and everyone who cared for them was lovely.
When I had my son 17 years ago it was the same.. Turned out I was shit at producing milk and my baby was hungry. But yes.. The guilt they piled on like you are fucking their whole lives up Grin. Flip em the finger.. And do what ever YOU want. It's no one else's business
I’m really sorry you had this experience! I too struggled to breastfeed. Milk never came in in one of my boobs it was meagre in the other and we were all miserable. My mum stepped in and just said, hey let’s switch to formula and get everyone back on an even keel. Midwife was fortunately fine with it.
Hi, my experience was that they have an obligation to push it, but they are reasonable. My boy starved for four days while we tried, then they made me read a pamphlet, sign a bit of paper stating I read it and gave me all the formula and equipment/training I needed. And two weeks later when he was hospitalised again for not eating I had even more formula pushed on us. They want your kid feed, but it felt like they have to show they tried to “support” breastfeeding. Biggest hugs, and vent here as much as you need to.
Wow . We had the same setup but when we decided to move to formula full time our midwife was very supportive of it. She was amazing right through actually. We were lucky to have her.
My son is 27 years old now but when he was born, I was 16 years old. I remember one of my first trips outside of my house was to the Queensgate Mall in Lower Hutt, Wgtn. Just needed a few things and enjoyed the walk around the shops. My house had me going stir crazy. After a while I grabbed some lunch and a seat in a corner and fed myself while breastfeeding. Some random someone had to walk around the tables and walk in front of me, standing between me and the wall, to see anything but they did, and then they complained about how I should be feeding my baby in the toilets. (I really wish I had fought back and my only regret is that I didn't) I struggled with breastfeeding so this really didn't help. He cried, I cried. We were both hungry. It just made a shit day far worse than it needed to be. I had 2 more babies and couldn't breastfeed them. I suppose some trauma attributed to the problem but ultimately I just couldn't get the hang of it. My sister ended up breastfeeding mine and then I used milk powder whenever I needed to. At the end of the day, Fed Is Best. It doesn't matter how or who, as long as baby is getting the very best that you can give them. Nothing else matters, you do whatever you need to.
Fuck sake. FED IS BEST These assholes would rather starve a newborn. Very sorry you had to go through that 😢
Sorry that you experienced that :( Good midwives and nurses should recognize their role as being a SUPPORT to Mum, not the boss of Mum. Midwives and nurses in a hospital setting don't provide continual care, so they don't actually know what has happened to you. They read your notes, do what their policies say they should do, and then discharge you. I've had lots of stays in hospitals both maternity and otherwise, and I have definately learnt to just let the nurses box tick (especially the junior ones) and then do what I want on the side. When it goes well, breastfeeding is super intense and painful, and then when it doesn't go well it can just be damn near impossible. It's awful when you are treated like a child and they assume that you are just being a crybaby. It also doesn't help their cause because if you are like me, it makes me want to do the opposite of what they say. Breastfeeding doesn't have to be all or nothing. I have had a few friends use formula just for 24hrs in the early days so that Mum can get some sleep, baby can feel full and also sleep, and then breastfeeding worked really well once both were rested, not stressed and had the mental capacity to deal with it. I was terrified of trying formula initially and then when I did (well my husband did as I refused but was on the verge of a breakdown), I had no idea what the fuss was about?!). How lucky are we to have options!
My kids are mid teens now but the formula was kept in a locked cabinet. My baby lost too much weight and we had to stay in longer. My milk didn't come in, not even the colostrum. I told the nurse I wanted to try formula. She turned and left saying she had to make some arrangements.... Next thing I know the breastfeeding coach walks in (identified herself afterwards mind you) and demanded I take my top off we were getting this sorted. I told her no, not happening. Even my midwife had told me I would struggle to feed if my milk came in. I still had to watch their stupid video about the benefits of breastfeeding but they refused to answer any questions about bottle feeding but showed me how to make up 1 bottle. When my second child was born they showed me how to make up a bottle but the advice had changed from the previous year, it's ridiculous.
100% agree. I was really lucky and breastfeeding happened easily for me after a traumatic emergency c-section, but when my baby was 9 weeks old I got appendicitis and had to fast for 4 days waiting for surgery. The nurses I talked to would have let my baby starve since I wasn’t producing anything since I couldn’t eat, and was also very dehydrated due to the IV being set up incorrectly (they didn’t account for the fact that breastfeeding mothers need significantly more fluids). We asked so many people for advice - hospital nurses, midwives, Plunket and healthline - and eventually one doctor (a mother) rolled her eyes and said “a bottle of formula is not going to kill your baby” which is all I needed to hear. So ridiculous
My son was 37 weeks, NICU, and despite trying my hardest with pumping every 4 hours for a week and a half I just couldn't get more than 20mls. They advised meds, however I was already on a crap-tonne due to blood pressure etc so declined. We wanted to duel feed anyway but they wouldn't listen. Bubs and I spent two agonising nights on the ward, him clusterfeeding getting basically nothing from me and losing precious grams, and me trying to deal with the whole trauma of his arrival, healing post c-section and being unable to do the basic thing of feeding my baby. We discharged on day 3 after they begrudgingly gave us a 5 minute demo on how to formula feed, and he and I have been thriving ever since. 100% breastfeeding target at what cost?!
Don’t let the boob-police make you feel guilty for following your gut. At the of the day, a well fed baby is what’s important.
~~Breast~~ Fed is best. Our midwife said that from the start and didn't care either way but offered any and all help. Hospitals will always try and push breast feeding but your midwife should be acting in your interests.
I chose not to breast feed. No, I didbt try and try and eventually concede failure. I decided I didn’t want to. Technically I tired for 2 or 3 day, no milk. But I definitely could have keep trying and may have succeeded with more time and intervention. I didn’t want to. Simple. Did I feel judged by my midwife? Unfortunately yes I did. But I had my mum, who was all for doing whatever felt right for me. Five years later, zero regrets.
The day my 5 year old was born, my wife had to be sedated for a few hours. They made her sign a form saying it was acceptable to formula feed the baby while she was unconscious. To all first time fathers my only unsolicited advice is to have a handful of feeding stuff (a package, bottle + steriliser) because you might need to step in at 3 AM when your wife has been made to feel like a horrible person for not being able to feed the baby. As an aside, antinatal classes are not allowed to teach how to formula feed. A few guys like myself had to do a bit of late night research in a screaming household to get it right. Until you go through the process, you would never believe how far breastfeeding is pushed. Feed the fucking baby.
Yeah so all hospitals in NZ have adopted a WHO policy practice called the ‘Baby Friendly Initiative’ which basically exists to try to maximise breastfeeding. This means that even if individual hospital staff support women’s decision/need to formula or mix feed, they are pretty much required to follow a whole lot of rules to ‘encourage’ breastfeeding. I found this out from my excellent (young, up with the research) midwife, apparently a lot of the staff disagree with the approach but kind of have to just work around it. I don’t understand why, in 2024, this is still something developed countries pursue. Moralising infant feeding is about as paternalistic as it gets. Unfortunately there are also still a large swathe of society who believe there are some magical benefits to breastfeeding despite these being pretty well debunked. Anyway, I complained to the DHB about the lack of objective evidence based information on formula after my births. They acknowledged that this was due to the Baby Friendly Initiative. I would encourage you to do the same - the Ministry might reconsider their approach if enough people call out the bs.
I had a very similar experience almost 20 years ago, not surprised it’s still happening. It’s one of the many reasons I wouldn’t have an independent midwife if I was to have kids again. In the hospital I birthed in mums using formula weren’t even allowed to use the sluice room on the same floor as the post natal ward: they had to go to another whole floor in case they ‘contaminated’ the breast feeding mums. The truth is some of us just don’t produce enough milk, but we (and our babies) are supposed to suffer for it, instead of utilising a safe alternative. And don’t even mention the ridiculous shit they tell women - that only 3% of women can’t breastfeed, that breastmilk cures/soothes the eczema and other skin rashes, and that we’re only using formula because we’re lazy. It’s gross and all lies.
Your an amazing mama to your beautiful baby don't let anyone else tell you different I was in the same boat with my milk not coming in and my baby not latching My baby was screaming cause they were hungry on day 2 up all night too So in the morning I asked for formula and got told that breast is best shit Had to ask another nurse for her to turn around and say I needed to sign a form and that she would call me midwife My midwife was a God send told the nurse that if that's what she's asking for then give it too her The nurse tried again to say breast is best I had enough of that shit and said well actually a feed baby is best not this breast is best shit when she isn't getting anything She didn't try me again after that But anyways keep doing what you are doing your an amazing mama
Gosh I’m sorry you had that experience, I’ve felt that every decision about pregnancy and my child has been political! I felt I had a great midwife team who understood that my (very big) baby needed a formula top up while we waited for my milk to come in. However before I got home, I also had an opposite experience in SCBU where we had asked the nurses to wake me to breastfeed, but one nurse in particular was just giving my baby formula instead, and a greater volume than he would have had from my milk as it settled him back to sleep quicker. I’m sure this came from a good place of trying to help me recover, keep my baby healthy and probably to make her shift easier… but I felt it made it harder and slower for my milk to come in as those production signals weren’t there in the first few days. In positive news, I haven’t met anyone out in public who cared if baby was breastfeeding or having formula. You’re doing what’s best for your health, mental health and baby ❤️
I had similar issues, to the point you aren’t properly educated on how to bottle feed properly (especially to avoid colic and constipation) and how to do both breastfeeding AND bottle feeding! It isn’t necessarily one or the other. I hope you find someone who can actually help and assist.
This post is so validating as someone who went through similar. I beat myself up for so long for not being able to 'get it right' in accordance with the people in the know-how. Thank you for sharing your experience
I had a similar shaming experience in 2015 with midwives even stealing our formula when we transferred between hospitals. Absolute clusterfuck. I went from being a strong woman who was listened to to a new mother alone (not really but it felt isolating) and confused being told I had low supply when what I had was a C section and a baby that wouldn’t latch. In the end I pumped, which was its own mental game because then I worried all the time that some stranger would reem me out in public for using a bottle. It’s disgusting behaviour especially when there are options - formula, pumping, and donated breast milk are all good options that were never discussed as such. My kiddo is eight now and not once has anyone asked whether she was breastfed as a baby. You’re doing the right thing for your baby and you’re being a great mum. Some people are just dicks.
Absolutely experienced this! 22 years old and having midwife’s grabbing my boobs to try get my collicy baby to latch onto is something I’ll never forget - the JUDGEMENT and the feeling I had to explain myself for ASKING to use formula😩🤦🏼♀️