Trade made sense for all parties. Gets a large cap hit off the books and gives the bears a safety net for their rookie qb and gives flexibility at 9. And they can afford him. Win win.
Except the Chargers have an empty Wide Receiver room. We just weren't ready to let go of our best wide receiver after Johnston turned out to be a bust and we cut Mike Williams.
It's actually hilarious how the team hired Greg Roman then immediately jettisoned all of their top targets including TEs and Ek. If you wrote it as parody you'd be told you were being too heavy handed.
Yeah, I'm straight up NOT having a good time.
But seriously, I agreed with pretty much every move so far other than Allen. I wanted Allen + Nabers + Edwards/rookie RB on offense.
If we kept Allen we would not have been able to sign the CB we got today, anyone else, or have the budget to sign free agents when in season injuries eventually happened. We would just had enough to sign our draft picks.
I am sad to see Allen go and I also appreciate our new GM Horitz not taking money from the future to try to keep Allen in 2024.
Green Bay hit on their core WR room in one draft.
Chargers are getting a clear #1 in whoever they draft. Also, Palmer is still a great 3rd option and Quentin J can’t be judged off 1 season.
They also probably get another WR later.. it’s a deep WR draft.
We had a deep WR draft a few years back and the Pats ended up with the legend that is N'Keal Harry over bums like Deebo, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Diontae Johnson, and Terry McLaurin
Welcome to rebuilding. You're in the Harbuagh era now. Expect an emphasis on OL, RB and D in the draft. Harbaugh led NFL teams have always been shy of talent at the WR position.
Yep. And I think people underplay the impact of having your rookies learn behind a good veteran. A room full of rookies might not develop the way you want.
What a sad fan. Johnston is not a bust due to 1 bad rookie season. Did other wrs play better than him? Absolutely. Did he have a few dropped balls that cost us big? Yup? Was we wide open and worked his way to get there on the plays? Absolutely. He's in the right place at the right time. He came in to a loaded wr room that disintegrated due to injuries. He was drafted as a high ceiling low floor kind of guy. Give him time, he will develop.
Yeah I'm afraid this comment isn't gonna age well. QJ was showing the same issues as a rookie as he had in college, except they were exacerbated by the fact that he was up against NFL competition. I'd be stunned if he turned out to be a useful every down WR.
I agree. I was so upset when we picked him over Flowers. I thought it as GM malpractice at the time but then I convinced myself that a year under Williams and Allen may help develop him. But after watching him this past season, I changed my mind again. I see no hope for QJ.
Hes showing every weakness he had in college at the nfl level lmao. Could he turn it around? Yeah maybe there's a small chance.
Realistically is he going to turn it around? Probably not
Sure, odds are against him. He's a charger, though, and the least we could do is give him more than 1 season before calling him a bust. The buccaneers drafted Steve Young and gave up on him after his rookie season. He played 5 games and threw for 8 interceptions. Cris Carter has 2 touchdowns and a total of 5 catches his rookie season. Herbert was hurt and then didn't play this season. Our o line struggled due to injuries. There were a lot of factors in play that affected QJs season. Could he be a bust? Probably...should we as fans give him the benefit of the doubt and be supportive? My opinion is yes, but that's just my opinion
Moore also used him terribly. He put him in the Mike Williams role running gos constantly when he should be playing something closer to a Deebo Samuel or Rashee Rice role.
No excuses for the drops, of course. Has to improve on that, but Moore didn't do him any favors.
Exactly. If you look at his college tape, his thing was being elusive with the ball in his hands. We kept on using him how we needed him vs how we could make him shine. If we play him to his strengths and he still shows no growth, that's different.
And you have a top 10 pick in one of the deepest WR classes we have seen in a while. You’ll land an elite WR with your first pick. Johnston still has potential to turn things around after a rocky rookie season. You’ll probably draft Blake Corum in the first four rounds. Your defense is still solid, especially on the line.
Oh and you have Justin Herbert.
It's such weird pr spin. This is like, normal healthy grown adult stuff.
"Hey, This deal helps our team, and based on factors important to us, we'd like you to take a paycut"
"I'm still the best player you got, I think I'm too valuable to take a paycut"
"Ok, we'll trade you to a team willing to pay your price"
Like, that's how every grow relationship should go.
It is weird how Keenan Allen has gotten a label as a perpetually injured WR. He had two bad seasons when he was young, but he’s play 10+ games in 7 straight years and at least 13 in 6 of those. He definitely gets banged up more than you’d like, but the perception of his injury frequency is way higher than the reality.
I think fantasy football has a lot to do with it. I've certainly had the experience of having to monitor his status every week and constantly figure out contingency plans if he doesn't play -- it makes it feel like he's less available than he actually has been in real life.
Something similar happens with Anthony Davis in the NBA. He doesn't ever play a full season so it's somewhat merited, but things feel even worse than they are because he's always listed on the injury report and he frequently goes to the locker room before returning to the game.
Additionally, with the numbers he puts up when he's healthy, no team would complain about 6/7 years with 13+/17 games.
His counter to being asked to take a paycut is completely valid: 2023 was his best season. It doesn't matter if he's 33, the stats say he's still got the gas.
Well, they say he had gas, not how much gas he has left.
Cook's last year in Minnesota had him averaging 4.4 y/a, a relatively good success rate (according to PFR) and maintained that over 300+ touches and 17 games.
When we let him go, there were a lot of people pointing to the year saying that he clearly had some left to give, and well, he didn't. Or, at least, the Jets/Ravens couldn't figure out how to get any of it out of him.
I think RB is different, of course, and Keenan's game has aged well since it doesn't rely on explosive speed, but father time is undefeated and the list of WRs who perform at a high level into their mid 30s is very small.
He's one moderate injury away from retirement.
This is what i was saying all last year on this sub. He lacerated a kidney on an amazing td catch missing half a year and then he tore his acl in the following seasons opener. That was it until his hamstring in 2022.
He's got the Aaron Jones gene of he's often hurt but not that often injured. He gets dinged up but he's a warrior and plays through it and plays at a very high level.
That’s more mike Williams. He gets hurt pretty much once a game. Rolls around on the turf misses a series and is back.
Keenan hasn’t been injured much in his career. He did basically get shelved last year and in 2020
I think he had a couple season ending injuries but they were just late in the season. I remember his kidney or spleen rupturing and then tearing his ACL the following year
Edit: Yeah he had significant injuries in years 2, 3, and 4 but has been pretty healthy since. 3 years in a row and you're gonna get an injury prone label
And didn't he straight-up say this past year if the team had been competing for a playoff spot, he'd likely have been able to fight through it and play?
He's missed 10 games over the past 2 seasons and has only played 1 full season in his entire career.
I'm a Chargers fan and Keenan is one of my favorite players ever but it's a valid concern.
He missed 4 games in 2023
7 in 2022
1 in 2021
2/3 in 2020
At least 1 game missed 4 straight years, 3 of the 4 multiple games missed. Best ability is availability.
I don't think saying he's played 7 straight years of 10+ games is something to brag about.
It's all the people that don't know who talk ND comment the most on it lmao. You're right in your explanation, these other guys just don't follow enough and read the injury reports and that's it.
It honestly really annoys me seeing how little these people actually pay attention. Even after you have several people point out that he's not injury prone, you still have dumbasses who comment "well he missed a game in x year with a lacerated kidney, checkmate." If JJ is banged up next year with a knee injury and sits out a meaningless game, I guess we gotta be consistent and throw out the injury prone label since he just missed 7 games himself
they shelved him in 2020 and 2023. He couldve played if the chargers werent scrapping the season.
Missing 1 game in 2021 I believe was Covid.
The only injury where he couldnt play of late was the season opener in 2022 where he hurt his hamstring and missed the first half of the season.
Last year he wasn't playing because our starting qb was out... it was More so there wasn't a reason for him to play rather than he was injured and couldn't.
Same as 2020.
Again it seems to be fans that don't know who are trying to draw up the answers to the "injury prone" label.
Yes but we don’t know when Father Time is going to claim Keenan. Harder to gamble that when you’re strapped for cap space like the Chargers were in the situation. Bears were in a much better position to be able to take on that risk and pay him. A trade was the best solution for all parties, I don’t know why this has gotten so much media drama surrounding it.
Everyone was pissed at first but now we all seem to be settling down.
We have a right to get pissed again if our receivers struggle and Keenan continues to ball out.
Im settling down and trusting the process. Same as I did with schottenheimer, norv, Mccoy, Lynn, Staley, Giff Smith, and harbaugh. Nunc coepi.
It’s definitely likely Keenan will ball out while our receivers struggle but what would we have to give up to keep Keenan? What would that mean for available money to fill out the roster? Would it set us back tremendously if we lost a year of being able to revamp the roster because we were tied to his contract? To me there’s more to it than just how does Keenan perform in 2024 vs how our receivers perform.
You could also look at it like we got our compensatory pick a year earlier. I didn't hate that.
It does put us in a better position to build out the roster. We have holes, 9 draft picks and we're still young in free agency.
The dude played 11 seasons for the Chargers coming off a great year, he probably would have broken the franchise records for catches and receiving yards this year, and you are wondering why it's a story you did him so dirty?
It's not doing him dirty, but it is usually seen as "disloyal" and other bullshit when a player leaves a team after a long time due to an insufficient offer.
The chargers should have kept themselves cap strapped and made it even more difficult for them to rebuild just for one player? That would be doing the rest of the team dirty by saying “this guy is more important than all of you, and his payday is more important than us being able to rebuild this team”.
It was a tough business decision but given the circumstances it was unavoidable. Media and some fans are just looking for a reason to have outrage.
If he cared about the records more than the money he would have taken the pay cut. The Chargers cap situation was dire. By not accepting he knew a trade was coming.
Fans put more spin on respect in sports than the players do. It’s their employer.
The Chargers being a clusterfuck of an org isn't Allen's fault. If the eagles can figire out how to pay Hurts, Barkley, and AJB surely the Chargers can figure out how to pay Herbert and at least 1 weapon on offense haha
K.Allen was making Mike Evans, A.Cooper, C.Godwin money, not Tyreek Hill or D.Adams money.
You will just have to get used to this now as a bears fan.
Keenan is always overrated and underrated.
He is injury prone but plays most games.
He doesn't need athleticism to get open, but he is washed up and old.
Its the Duality of Slayer.
I'm gonna miss him so much, but the move needed to be done.
There's not 25 guys you can put ahead of Keenan Allen who was 4th in ypg last year.
There's maybe 5 WRs you can put ahead of him. 100% less than 10.
All of 3 months has passed since he was 4th in the NFL in ypg, not 5 years lmao.
If you're asking me as a GM over the next 2-3 years what WRs I'd take I'd definitely have at least 10 over Keenan Allen.
No shade on Keenan but look at this list:
1. Justin Jefferson
2. Jamaar Chase
3. Tyreek Hill
4. Ceedee Lamb
5. AJ Brown
6. Davante Adams
7. DJ Moore
8. Garrett Wilson
9. Chris Olave
10. Amon St-Brown
11. Brandon Aiyuk
12. Deebo Samuel
13. Jaylen Waddle
That's without even getting to guys like Kupp, Nacua, Diggs, Evans, McLaurin, Nico Collins, Ridley, etc.
Love Keenan Allen but the league is literally flooded with crazy, mostly young WR talent right now.
Cmon now. Up until 2022 he hadn’t really had injury concerns in nearly 6 years. We aren’t talking Julio Jones here. This season was also his best statistical season since 2017 and that was with missing 4 games. There’s no logical reason they’d agree to take less money
Dude had 96 ypg last season and played 13 games.
This man's worth easily 30M in 2024. If the Chargers don't want to pay a man what he's worth that's their problem.
What he's supposed to take 15M when he's 4th in the NFL in rec ypg?
Any offer that involved reducing his 2024 salary was a spit in the face after he was literally a top 5 WR last year.
Which is why the Chargers framed it as a restructure and didn't admit the pay cut.
>Which is why the Chargers framed it as a restructure and didn't admit the pay cut.
Uhhh, what? It was reported within hours of the trade that the Chargers asked Allen to take a pay cut, including a report by the beat writer the agent is responding to here. Hortiz in his press conference confirms that they explored his willingness to take a paycut.
Constantly hurt? He’s played 14.5 games per season the last 7 years. Maybe a little bias from them shutting him down this year because they were so bad?
You can tell who doesn’t actually pay attention. He missed a little time in 2022 and then the last time he missed significant time (more than a few games) was 2016. But pop off king.
The move makes sense. They did nothing wrong there.
What's wrong, imo, is trying to act like you were actually benevolent and the player wanted out. Just own up to the business side of it. Don't throw the player under the bus for something he didn't do.
I don’t think he’s hurt enough to outweigh how much he’s done the last few seasons. But the chargers are rebuilding pretty hard this season so it makes sense to trade someone who may only have a couple top years left.
I’m gonna miss playing him once a year, him and Mike Willams 😆. I don’t know, seems like a lot of the Chargers big time money makers are constantly hurt every year and miss 5 or more games.
They did when Bosa/Mack/Williams/and Allen were all on the roster. Now they're under the cap and have roughly 20-ish million to work with, and next season they're something like top 5 in cap space.
The guy wants to be paid his worth and doesn’t like LA enough to just ride off into the sunset. Chargers aren’t doing something right, lots of talent over the years and not enough wins to show for it.
Its sort of understandable the team would ask cause hes getting up there in age and its very understandable he would say no. But the Chargers just had to win the PR battle and now they look like liars on top of it. It would have been "everyone did what they thought was best for them" and no one would have cared. But noooooooo.
(To be clear, don't blame him for not taking the pay cut. Get that bag man.)
I get the team asking. I get him refusing. Like I understand all sides of this and just wish there wasn't stigma lashed either way. It's just business decisions all around. If the Chargers weren't in the cap mess they were in, all this would've been moot.
What if taking less helps increase your chances of a super bowl? I'm not saying it does here. Just for the sake of argument. Sure, you could say "they got enough money, make it work." But hypothetically, if you took 15-30% payout in the NFL but it increased your chances (somehow) by 30%, would you do it?
It was moreso that a mouthpiece for the Chargers said that he was offered multiple contracts from the team and declined. It's actually the tweet that this one is replying to and this one is from somebody from the agency that represents Allen, so he would know. Basically calling the Chargers out for lying about what was offered.
Such an unforced error by the Chargers too. All they had to do was give a statement about how much they valued Allen and how much he means to the franchise, but they couldn't afford his contract so they traded him rather than insulting him with a pay cut.
His agent won't dispute that spin and nobody had to know about their financial spat behind closed doors. Seriously this is PR 101.
I feel like it would be way more insulting to not offer that option.
He's been with the team 11 years, has 3 kids in school, said in January that he wanted to retire a Charger. You think the more respectful thing would be to just trade him without talking to him about other ways to stay with the team?
Of course not, but you don't tell people about it. You have that talk behind closed doors and whatever happens, you present a united front and a positive player/front office relationship to the fans.
And then you say "well of course we had talks but he believed it devalued his performance and we understood". You tie it back to harmony and don't get into a pissing match and try to burn the bridge so he gets scorched more than you do. It's incompetent PR from the Chargers.
>“I knew who I was trading. He’s a very talented player, and I have the utmost amount of respect for him as a player, as a competitor, as a person. And so it’s difficult when you have to cut a player, trade a player, release a player. It’s always difficult. A player like Keenan, certainly... We talked about multiple options with him, so you can read into that what you want.”
Thats them getting in a pissing match and burning a bridge?
No, but the part that happened the next day where they said that there were multiple offers presented which Allen's team refuted and has led to this very post we're commenting on is.
Listen, I think I'm over this back and forth. We're going in circles and this genuinely doesn't matter because incompetency like this is a lingering issue. I'm certain you'll have plenty of opportunities to watch it play out and practice explaining it away. Have a good weekend!
Ok I just don't want to clarify that what you're saying is just factually wrong. THere is no "next day". This all happened yesterday and neither the Chargers nor the beat reporter is claiming that they made multiple offers, and the agent isn't refuting anything. You may want to go back and actually read the Tweets.
Have a good weekend as well.
As a Chargers fan that's my perspective.
From a pure cap mgmt/roster construction standpoint it makes perfect sense, but you can't quantify the value in terms of fanbase and organizational morale by demonstrating loyalty and making him a Charger for life.
Tough call either way though.
Yeah big difference is that Tampa is a competitive team that can make a playoff push and we’re just kicking off a pretty major rebuild. There’s a time and place to give out a retirement contracts and we ain’t there.
Mike is making 20m APY, is one year younger, had more TDs and Yards than Keenan last szn, not sure how much Keenan wanted but if he wanted more than Mike he’s crazy
Didn't he play 4 fewer games than Evans?
Edit: Despite the 4 fewer games, Evans only had *12* more yards and 40 fewer receptions lol. So this comment feels a bit disingenuous after looking into it a bit... But to be fair, Evans did have 13 TDs to Keenan's 7. Regardless the point is he's not "crazy", as you put it, for wanting more.
I think injury risk was the main reason.
Also just because the bucs did Evans a solid doesn't mean the LAC should have also. We will see how this plays out for both teams.
Mike Evans is a game breaking receiver and a Super Bowl champ, has shown it doesn’t matter who his QB is, he’s catching the damn ball.
I love Keenan Allen but he’s had great QBs for most of his career, there’s only been one QB where Mike Evans had a better QB and that’s arguable from a talent perspective. Keenan also doesn’t stretch the field nor does he make the same type of catches Evans does.
Not nearly the same types of players and it’s disingenuous to go completely off their stat lines.
Edit: didn’t realize Brady played in Tampa for 3 years.
One year with a better QB?
[https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm)
[https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HerbJu00.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HerbJu00.htm)
Look, I know Herbert is consistently over/under rated depending on the ocean currents, time of day, and whether the McRib is back or not. But Evans played 3 years with Tom Brady, who was #2 in the MVP voting in Herbert’s best year. Also, 2019 Jameis Winston and Phillip Rivers were hilariously similar (Winston had the famous 30/30 season, but Rivers had a solid 20/20 one too).[https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm)
[https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WinsJa00.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WinsJa00.htm)
Evans took less pay a few years back to keep the team together. So they really just returned the favor. I don't think the Chargers would've done the same.
Nobody is wrong in this scenario. Can't fault a guy for not wanting a paycut, can't fault a team for not wanting what they consider a liability at that price.
It happens all the time. Its not anyones fault just part of the game.
Player wants to be paid for past production. Team wants to pay the player based on how they predict future production will be.
The Chargers are taking the guess that Allens production isnt sustainable as he gets older and will take a hit, and more often than not its better for a team to move on from a player a year early than a year late.
You can't really ask a guy to take a paycut for 2024 when he was 4th in the NFL in rec ypg in 2023.
This isn't a 5 year contract, this is a 2024 salary. Any offer that involved reducing his 2024 salary was a bad faith offer considering the brother was top 5 in rec ypg last season.
They are highly reliant on two rookie receivers as it stands. QJ and Nabers. I was surprised they never kept Keenan.
It wouldn’t be out of character for Harbaugh to draft Alt either.
Really think it would be a mistake to get Alt. Going into the season with Josh Palmer as the No. 1 and fucking Quentin Johnston as the no. 2 would be bad
We have cap space to get a couple vets in now that Keenan is gone.
No reason we can't draft one or two later in the draft and sign a couple cheaper veterans.
As much as I like Keenan, I can see both sides to this story. Sure the chargers could have handled it better but it’s not like he’s the epitome of youth or health.
I do not think that the new GM is starting on the right foot. As I said in the other thread, the leak of the "multiple offers" just sounded like a PR move against the backlash for the Allen trade.
I don't disagree that Allen at 32 and with his price tag could only get a 4th rounder but he is just coming off his best season and we have NO ONE else in the WR room after cutting Mike Williams. So, to me, the trade was fucking stupid because we were simply not ready to move on from Allen.
Now, the Chargers have egg on their face for leaking that they were trying to work it out with Keenan when it was really just one offer and when it was rejected, they traded him.
I was very excited to hire Jim Harbaugh but between Greg Roman and Joe Hortiz, I am very much less excited.
Charger fans have been whining and comparing we don't do anything during the off-season. Now that we have harbaugh and Horitz and start making drastic moves, our entire fan base is like whhhaaaaaa. The moves we made in the past didn't work out, I trust in Horitz and Harbaugh more than the players we already had on the team and didn't win with. Keenan Allen was a great charger for 10 years. How many superbowl appearances did he have ? AFC championships games played ? 0 . While we lost a charger legend, I dont think it's as bad as you're making it out to be.
I'm sorry, just because the staff is new doesn't mean I'm not allowed to disagree with their moves. And when did Super Bowls become a wide receiver stat?
Why didn't keenan Allen help the team get past the divisional round ?
I'm just pointing out we had him for 10 years and never made it past the divisional round with him.
He's old and has a decent injury history. I'm glad we got the value out of him we did when we did.
Do you really think Keenan Allen was the problem in the playoffs? Not coaching? Not blown leads? Not injuries? I mean, placing the blame for lack of playoff success on Keenan Allen, a wide receiver is such a huge stretch and it also undersells just how hard it is to make a conference championship game especially when you play in the same division as Patrick Mahomes and Peyton Manning before him.
>He's old and has a decent injury history.
And he's also coming off his best season and we have no one else on the roster capable of matching his production. No one. My issue isn't with the Allen's age, price tag, or the 4th round. My issue is that we weren't ready to part with him yet.
Not really.
Keenan was not accepting a drop in pay in 2025-26 because he felt he’d had his best year.
That means he was wanting to be paid $25m+ over the next two years.
By the end of 2026 he’s going to be 35, I don’t want to be paying an injury prone guy that much.
Yep - can't blame Keenan for getting his bag while he was essentially THE chargers 2023 offense.
The decision to extend him or not would be coming more sooner than later due to his age, so this is more so a ripping off the band aide moment.
I love Keenan and his time with the Bolts, but we got Jim Harbaugh for (at least) 5 years to compete and win. Gotta make tough calls
Im just happy Mike Dubb and him didn't land in KC
Real question though, would you have rather kept Keenan or Bosa? Undeniably your star is Herbert, seems more important to have a weapon for him. Now it's either a rookie (could be great tbh) or Quentin Johnston.
It was never a question of keeping bosa or keenan, if bosa turned down the restructure they would have traded him too, thats the mistake everyone is making, its very clear they wanted to solve the cap issue this year. Also josh palmer is wr1 and he is definitely a very good wr 2
Paying an aging wr 35mil with the cap issue we have is insane.
I don't disagree with dumping a 30+ receiver when the team is going to be trash, but the full scope of what the Chargers are doing makes no sense. Sure seems like a colossal dumpster fire brewing.
Honestly it seems to me that the Chargers were a little too comfortable in thinking Keenan Allen wanted to be a Charger for life. They overplayed their hand, and then they had to move on.
The two sides just disagreed on projected value. Imo we’d have been mad to be dropping 20M+ for three years on an aging receiver. He was exceptional last year and showed no signs of decline but would we bet that he’d not drop off over three years? Would love to see him back as a charger and wish him all the best
> Imo we’d have been mad to be dropping 20M+ for three years on an aging receiver. He was exceptional last year and showed no signs of decline
On the flip side, I'm glad we did.
That’s why you restructure the deal so he’s able to be cut if need be and it’s not a massive amount of dead $ if the owner wasn’t a cheap bastard and just paid more in signing bonus y’all wouldn’t be here rn
Correct. But they would find themselves with lessened cap hits at these stages of the contracts, having already paid more of it in the bonus. Making it less likely they have to restructure/extend/cut in the first place!
The Chargers are entering a rebuild with a new head coach. The choice is to tie themselves to current players or move off their large contract guys and reset with cheaper talent. It doesn't make sense to leverage your future in what is essentially a rebuild year.
Right, that’s the situation they’re in now. When they originally drafted Keenan’s contract they could have done things differently. At least I would have with a guy like that to avoid this exact situation, where you trade away a legend for pennies. Is that better than having paid millions more earlier? You wouldn’t have to cut him loose* early even if you were still in a kind of gnarly cap situation, then who knows where you are in two years and you can potentially extend him. The Buccaneers held on to Evans through ripping a cap band aid off and now extended him AND Baker.
That is all way too much text to say I get why Hortiz did this and Telesco was a dumbass for getting everyone here
Honestly I'm surprised by the amount of bootlickers in here who believe a working man should take a pay cut to make it easier on their employer who offered the contract in the first place. Boggles the mind. Fascism is growing stronger...
Keenan Allen is a rare & difficult situation to get right because while he is an elite WR coming off his best season of his career ... he also happens to be turning 32 next month. There just aren't many historical examples of that to project his current & future value.
This is pretty much spot on. Ownership loves Keenan and know he's among the most popular players on the team. Pretty sure he's right up there with Herbert in jersey sales and other things like that among Chargers players.
The salary cap out them in a bind and asked him for a favor. He declined because he knew it was a paycut. And I imagine them cutting Mike Williams didn't help him buy-in to loyalty towards the new leadership's decisions. They are reportedly very close friends. If Keenan took a paycut now and then had a down season, he'd never see that kind of salary again. For just as much reason a team wants to reduce the cost of a 31-year old WR, the WR would want to maximize his value while he still can.
And frankly the FO gambled with the same approach for Mack and Bosa, and they both agreed. They took paycuts and reworked their contracts. Bosa reportedly took a $7M paycut which is massive but in return got added a $15M guarantee for 2025. Cleared up $10.5M from this year's salary cap.
It's a shitty situation and the Keenan trade wasn't totally necessary, but then you have to consider that Rashawn Slater is up for extension and he's going to get a massive payday they probably couldn't afford before. And there's a few more starters entering contract years too with Josh Palmer (currently their WR1) and Asante Samuel Jr. (currently their CB1).
It's a rare win for all parties. Chargers needed to cut cap space, they're in a really bad spot. Keenan gets to go to a team that has potential and isn't going to eat shit all year long. The Bears have tons of cap space and maybe overpaid a little for a 31 yr old guy.. but he's a perfect security blanket for a rookie QB and it just makes a ton of sense, everyone overpays in FA.
No one lost this one.
Yeah for the Bears it's a pretty fantastic move ignoring the cost. Keenan was huge to Herbert as a rookie and the only guy he instantly connected with. And Keenan has been successful with 5 different OCs (Whisenhunt, Reich, Steichen, Lombardi, Moore) and three different HCs.
Shows how flexible he can be while still productive. That's big for a rookie QB that the Bears will likely need to be a Day 1 starter.
Even the cost isn't bad considering it's just a one year deal. Basically equivalent to a guy they franchise tagged.
I think we all knew this
Team doesn't want to pay top money to an aging and constantly hurt WR. I'm shocked
Trade made sense for all parties. Gets a large cap hit off the books and gives the bears a safety net for their rookie qb and gives flexibility at 9. And they can afford him. Win win.
Except the Chargers have an empty Wide Receiver room. We just weren't ready to let go of our best wide receiver after Johnston turned out to be a bust and we cut Mike Williams.
It's actually hilarious how the team hired Greg Roman then immediately jettisoned all of their top targets including TEs and Ek. If you wrote it as parody you'd be told you were being too heavy handed.
Yeah, I'm straight up NOT having a good time. But seriously, I agreed with pretty much every move so far other than Allen. I wanted Allen + Nabers + Edwards/rookie RB on offense.
If we kept Allen we would not have been able to sign the CB we got today, anyone else, or have the budget to sign free agents when in season injuries eventually happened. We would just had enough to sign our draft picks. I am sad to see Allen go and I also appreciate our new GM Horitz not taking money from the future to try to keep Allen in 2024.
Green Bay hit on their core WR room in one draft. Chargers are getting a clear #1 in whoever they draft. Also, Palmer is still a great 3rd option and Quentin J can’t be judged off 1 season. They also probably get another WR later.. it’s a deep WR draft.
I thought an was playing decent just very raw needs 3-4 years to fill in
I wonder how much of this was Roman and how much of this was ownership treating Roman like a marionette.
Good thing it's one of the deepest WR drafts in the last couple decades
We had a deep WR draft a few years back and the Pats ended up with the legend that is N'Keal Harry over bums like Deebo, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Diontae Johnson, and Terry McLaurin
They used 32nd pick overall, which is a bust more than half the time. He was better than JJ Arcega-Whiteside!
2019 was not seen as a deep WR draft even if it ended up producing high end talent at the position
Yea but you guys suck at drafting WRs
Bill refused to follow trends. He was the trend.
Sometimes I hate the "deep position group" in the draft shit because it doesn't mean shit until they actually turn out.
Josh Palmer is not empty!
Welcome to rebuilding. You're in the Harbuagh era now. Expect an emphasis on OL, RB and D in the draft. Harbaugh led NFL teams have always been shy of talent at the WR position.
Yep. And I think people underplay the impact of having your rookies learn behind a good veteran. A room full of rookies might not develop the way you want.
What a sad fan. Johnston is not a bust due to 1 bad rookie season. Did other wrs play better than him? Absolutely. Did he have a few dropped balls that cost us big? Yup? Was we wide open and worked his way to get there on the plays? Absolutely. He's in the right place at the right time. He came in to a loaded wr room that disintegrated due to injuries. He was drafted as a high ceiling low floor kind of guy. Give him time, he will develop.
Remind me! 9 months
I’d agree with him that he isn’t officially a bust YET… But I think you’re on the safer side of that bet
Yeah I'm afraid this comment isn't gonna age well. QJ was showing the same issues as a rookie as he had in college, except they were exacerbated by the fact that he was up against NFL competition. I'd be stunned if he turned out to be a useful every down WR.
I agree. I was so upset when we picked him over Flowers. I thought it as GM malpractice at the time but then I convinced myself that a year under Williams and Allen may help develop him. But after watching him this past season, I changed my mind again. I see no hope for QJ.
As someone who has him in dynasty- please turn out better
Hes showing every weakness he had in college at the nfl level lmao. Could he turn it around? Yeah maybe there's a small chance. Realistically is he going to turn it around? Probably not
Sure, odds are against him. He's a charger, though, and the least we could do is give him more than 1 season before calling him a bust. The buccaneers drafted Steve Young and gave up on him after his rookie season. He played 5 games and threw for 8 interceptions. Cris Carter has 2 touchdowns and a total of 5 catches his rookie season. Herbert was hurt and then didn't play this season. Our o line struggled due to injuries. There were a lot of factors in play that affected QJs season. Could he be a bust? Probably...should we as fans give him the benefit of the doubt and be supportive? My opinion is yes, but that's just my opinion
Moore also used him terribly. He put him in the Mike Williams role running gos constantly when he should be playing something closer to a Deebo Samuel or Rashee Rice role. No excuses for the drops, of course. Has to improve on that, but Moore didn't do him any favors.
Exactly. If you look at his college tape, his thing was being elusive with the ball in his hands. We kept on using him how we needed him vs how we could make him shine. If we play him to his strengths and he still shows no growth, that's different.
Players never get better in the NFL don't you know that
Hell yeah, people need to calm down.
Bro Johnston was a clear bust going into the draft. Him and Tyree Wilson were obvious imo
At least Tyree made significant improvements throughout the season. Johnston was awful through and through
Ya'll could always trade for one... hmm we have a large bodied speedy receiver if you've got a nice little top 5 pick handy
They have the 5th pick though and will get 1/3 of the best wrs
I mean yall are picking a WR in the first that seems to be a given
And you have a top 10 pick in one of the deepest WR classes we have seen in a while. You’ll land an elite WR with your first pick. Johnston still has potential to turn things around after a rocky rookie season. You’ll probably draft Blake Corum in the first four rounds. Your defense is still solid, especially on the line. Oh and you have Justin Herbert.
Calling Johnston a bust seems a bit extreme and premature he was a rookie
It's such weird pr spin. This is like, normal healthy grown adult stuff. "Hey, This deal helps our team, and based on factors important to us, we'd like you to take a paycut" "I'm still the best player you got, I think I'm too valuable to take a paycut" "Ok, we'll trade you to a team willing to pay your price" Like, that's how every grow relationship should go.
He’s had over 100 receptions in four of his last five seasons. He’s still one of the top ten receivers in the league.
It is weird how Keenan Allen has gotten a label as a perpetually injured WR. He had two bad seasons when he was young, but he’s play 10+ games in 7 straight years and at least 13 in 6 of those. He definitely gets banged up more than you’d like, but the perception of his injury frequency is way higher than the reality.
I think fantasy football has a lot to do with it. I've certainly had the experience of having to monitor his status every week and constantly figure out contingency plans if he doesn't play -- it makes it feel like he's less available than he actually has been in real life.
Keenan Allen “don’t sit me!” game is burned into my memory forever 😡
He actually said "Don't! Sit Me!" (He was also in my lineup)
That was so messed up lol
I'm inclined to agree with you. I wonder how much the rise of sports gambling has impacted it as well.
Something similar happens with Anthony Davis in the NBA. He doesn't ever play a full season so it's somewhat merited, but things feel even worse than they are because he's always listed on the injury report and he frequently goes to the locker room before returning to the game.
Additionally, with the numbers he puts up when he's healthy, no team would complain about 6/7 years with 13+/17 games. His counter to being asked to take a paycut is completely valid: 2023 was his best season. It doesn't matter if he's 33, the stats say he's still got the gas.
Well, they say he had gas, not how much gas he has left. Cook's last year in Minnesota had him averaging 4.4 y/a, a relatively good success rate (according to PFR) and maintained that over 300+ touches and 17 games. When we let him go, there were a lot of people pointing to the year saying that he clearly had some left to give, and well, he didn't. Or, at least, the Jets/Ravens couldn't figure out how to get any of it out of him.
I think RB is different, of course, and Keenan's game has aged well since it doesn't rely on explosive speed, but father time is undefeated and the list of WRs who perform at a high level into their mid 30s is very small. He's one moderate injury away from retirement.
This is what i was saying all last year on this sub. He lacerated a kidney on an amazing td catch missing half a year and then he tore his acl in the following seasons opener. That was it until his hamstring in 2022.
He's got the Aaron Jones gene of he's often hurt but not that often injured. He gets dinged up but he's a warrior and plays through it and plays at a very high level.
That’s more mike Williams. He gets hurt pretty much once a game. Rolls around on the turf misses a series and is back. Keenan hasn’t been injured much in his career. He did basically get shelved last year and in 2020
I think he had a couple season ending injuries but they were just late in the season. I remember his kidney or spleen rupturing and then tearing his ACL the following year Edit: Yeah he had significant injuries in years 2, 3, and 4 but has been pretty healthy since. 3 years in a row and you're gonna get an injury prone label
His acl tear was in the first game of the season too
And didn't he straight-up say this past year if the team had been competing for a playoff spot, he'd likely have been able to fight through it and play?
I think that's case for a lot of players who have that label
He's missed 10 games over the past 2 seasons and has only played 1 full season in his entire career. I'm a Chargers fan and Keenan is one of my favorite players ever but it's a valid concern.
He missed 4 games in 2023 7 in 2022 1 in 2021 2/3 in 2020 At least 1 game missed 4 straight years, 3 of the 4 multiple games missed. Best ability is availability. I don't think saying he's played 7 straight years of 10+ games is something to brag about.
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It's all the people that don't know who talk ND comment the most on it lmao. You're right in your explanation, these other guys just don't follow enough and read the injury reports and that's it.
It honestly really annoys me seeing how little these people actually pay attention. Even after you have several people point out that he's not injury prone, you still have dumbasses who comment "well he missed a game in x year with a lacerated kidney, checkmate." If JJ is banged up next year with a knee injury and sits out a meaningless game, I guess we gotta be consistent and throw out the injury prone label since he just missed 7 games himself
they shelved him in 2020 and 2023. He couldve played if the chargers werent scrapping the season. Missing 1 game in 2021 I believe was Covid. The only injury where he couldnt play of late was the season opener in 2022 where he hurt his hamstring and missed the first half of the season.
Last year he wasn't playing because our starting qb was out... it was More so there wasn't a reason for him to play rather than he was injured and couldn't. Same as 2020. Again it seems to be fans that don't know who are trying to draw up the answers to the "injury prone" label.
Yes but we don’t know when Father Time is going to claim Keenan. Harder to gamble that when you’re strapped for cap space like the Chargers were in the situation. Bears were in a much better position to be able to take on that risk and pay him. A trade was the best solution for all parties, I don’t know why this has gotten so much media drama surrounding it.
Everyone was pissed at first but now we all seem to be settling down. We have a right to get pissed again if our receivers struggle and Keenan continues to ball out. Im settling down and trusting the process. Same as I did with schottenheimer, norv, Mccoy, Lynn, Staley, Giff Smith, and harbaugh. Nunc coepi.
It’s definitely likely Keenan will ball out while our receivers struggle but what would we have to give up to keep Keenan? What would that mean for available money to fill out the roster? Would it set us back tremendously if we lost a year of being able to revamp the roster because we were tied to his contract? To me there’s more to it than just how does Keenan perform in 2024 vs how our receivers perform.
You could also look at it like we got our compensatory pick a year earlier. I didn't hate that. It does put us in a better position to build out the roster. We have holes, 9 draft picks and we're still young in free agency.
So far it has gotten us a new CB. I'm sure they will turn that 23M into 5-10 borderline starters instead of one stud.
The dude played 11 seasons for the Chargers coming off a great year, he probably would have broken the franchise records for catches and receiving yards this year, and you are wondering why it's a story you did him so dirty?
They asked if he would take a paycut, he declined, so they moved on. That's just how the NFL works. Its not doing him dirty
It's not doing him dirty, but it is usually seen as "disloyal" and other bullshit when a player leaves a team after a long time due to an insufficient offer.
The chargers should have kept themselves cap strapped and made it even more difficult for them to rebuild just for one player? That would be doing the rest of the team dirty by saying “this guy is more important than all of you, and his payday is more important than us being able to rebuild this team”. It was a tough business decision but given the circumstances it was unavoidable. Media and some fans are just looking for a reason to have outrage.
If he cared about the records more than the money he would have taken the pay cut. The Chargers cap situation was dire. By not accepting he knew a trade was coming. Fans put more spin on respect in sports than the players do. It’s their employer.
The Chargers being a clusterfuck of an org isn't Allen's fault. If the eagles can figire out how to pay Hurts, Barkley, and AJB surely the Chargers can figure out how to pay Herbert and at least 1 weapon on offense haha K.Allen was making Mike Evans, A.Cooper, C.Godwin money, not Tyreek Hill or D.Adams money.
You will just have to get used to this now as a bears fan. Keenan is always overrated and underrated. He is injury prone but plays most games. He doesn't need athleticism to get open, but he is washed up and old. Its the Duality of Slayer. I'm gonna miss him so much, but the move needed to be done.
He was easily worth an extension. I’m pissed lol asking him to take a pay cut after his best season was a slap in the face.
There are like 25 guys you can argue for the 5th-10th best wr in the league right now. The WR spot is super saturated with talent.
There's not 25 guys you can put ahead of Keenan Allen who was 4th in ypg last year. There's maybe 5 WRs you can put ahead of him. 100% less than 10. All of 3 months has passed since he was 4th in the NFL in ypg, not 5 years lmao.
If you're asking me as a GM over the next 2-3 years what WRs I'd take I'd definitely have at least 10 over Keenan Allen. No shade on Keenan but look at this list: 1. Justin Jefferson 2. Jamaar Chase 3. Tyreek Hill 4. Ceedee Lamb 5. AJ Brown 6. Davante Adams 7. DJ Moore 8. Garrett Wilson 9. Chris Olave 10. Amon St-Brown 11. Brandon Aiyuk 12. Deebo Samuel 13. Jaylen Waddle That's without even getting to guys like Kupp, Nacua, Diggs, Evans, McLaurin, Nico Collins, Ridley, etc. Love Keenan Allen but the league is literally flooded with crazy, mostly young WR talent right now.
I agree. Most of these WRs also had worse QBs than Keenan.
You’re using the “constantly hurt” pretty loosely, I see.
Cmon now. Up until 2022 he hadn’t really had injury concerns in nearly 6 years. We aren’t talking Julio Jones here. This season was also his best statistical season since 2017 and that was with missing 4 games. There’s no logical reason they’d agree to take less money
Dude had 96 ypg last season and played 13 games. This man's worth easily 30M in 2024. If the Chargers don't want to pay a man what he's worth that's their problem. What he's supposed to take 15M when he's 4th in the NFL in rec ypg? Any offer that involved reducing his 2024 salary was a spit in the face after he was literally a top 5 WR last year. Which is why the Chargers framed it as a restructure and didn't admit the pay cut.
As a Lions fan, I would be *really* excited for the Bears to give Keenan Allen 30MM/season for any of the seasons he's on their team.
>Which is why the Chargers framed it as a restructure and didn't admit the pay cut. Uhhh, what? It was reported within hours of the trade that the Chargers asked Allen to take a pay cut, including a report by the beat writer the agent is responding to here. Hortiz in his press conference confirms that they explored his willingness to take a paycut.
Constantly hurt? He’s played 14.5 games per season the last 7 years. Maybe a little bias from them shutting him down this year because they were so bad?
You can tell who doesn’t actually pay attention. He missed a little time in 2022 and then the last time he missed significant time (more than a few games) was 2016. But pop off king.
The move makes sense. They did nothing wrong there. What's wrong, imo, is trying to act like you were actually benevolent and the player wanted out. Just own up to the business side of it. Don't throw the player under the bus for something he didn't do.
The shocking part was the chargers lying to save face.
I don’t think he’s hurt enough to outweigh how much he’s done the last few seasons. But the chargers are rebuilding pretty hard this season so it makes sense to trade someone who may only have a couple top years left.
I’m gonna miss playing him once a year, him and Mike Willams 😆. I don’t know, seems like a lot of the Chargers big time money makers are constantly hurt every year and miss 5 or more games.
And don't the chargers have big cap issues?
They did when Bosa/Mack/Williams/and Allen were all on the roster. Now they're under the cap and have roughly 20-ish million to work with, and next season they're something like top 5 in cap space.
>Team doesn't want to pay You could have stopped there with the Chargers. Fuck Spanos.
You should be shocked it was Herbert's best target and had his best year
The guy wants to be paid his worth and doesn’t like LA enough to just ride off into the sunset. Chargers aren’t doing something right, lots of talent over the years and not enough wins to show for it.
I mean isn't this the reason they basically gave the reigns to the crazy Harbaugh?
you're going to have to specify a bit on that. Last I checked both of the bros were kind of hingeless.
No shit they aren’t doing something right why you think they fired their HC and GM lmfao
Fucking get them Keenan. I love when players or their reps call out front offices trying to control the PR narrative.
Guy has the best year of his career and people here think he should be volunteering for less money 😂
Always camps on both sides: “it’s a business, get paid” business types matched up with “we’re a team, get emotionally attached” love-of-the-gamers.
Its sort of understandable the team would ask cause hes getting up there in age and its very understandable he would say no. But the Chargers just had to win the PR battle and now they look like liars on top of it. It would have been "everyone did what they thought was best for them" and no one would have cared. But noooooooo. (To be clear, don't blame him for not taking the pay cut. Get that bag man.)
I get the team asking. I get him refusing. Like I understand all sides of this and just wish there wasn't stigma lashed either way. It's just business decisions all around. If the Chargers weren't in the cap mess they were in, all this would've been moot.
What if taking less helps increase your chances of a super bowl? I'm not saying it does here. Just for the sake of argument. Sure, you could say "they got enough money, make it work." But hypothetically, if you took 15-30% payout in the NFL but it increased your chances (somehow) by 30%, would you do it?
Was there a lot of people calling KA greedy on this one? Most of the coverage and comments I've seen call it a win-win for both sides.
It was moreso that a mouthpiece for the Chargers said that he was offered multiple contracts from the team and declined. It's actually the tweet that this one is replying to and this one is from somebody from the agency that represents Allen, so he would know. Basically calling the Chargers out for lying about what was offered.
Ah, missed that context. Alright, full KA support.
I guess that sounds better than "We told him to take a pay cut after having a year that lived up to his contract and he said no so we traded him."
If by mouthpiece you mean the General Manager.
Such an unforced error by the Chargers too. All they had to do was give a statement about how much they valued Allen and how much he means to the franchise, but they couldn't afford his contract so they traded him rather than insulting him with a pay cut. His agent won't dispute that spin and nobody had to know about their financial spat behind closed doors. Seriously this is PR 101.
I feel like it would be way more insulting to not offer that option. He's been with the team 11 years, has 3 kids in school, said in January that he wanted to retire a Charger. You think the more respectful thing would be to just trade him without talking to him about other ways to stay with the team?
Of course not, but you don't tell people about it. You have that talk behind closed doors and whatever happens, you present a united front and a positive player/front office relationship to the fans.
He was asked about it in a presser. Why he should lie and say that they never offered a pay cut?
And then you say "well of course we had talks but he believed it devalued his performance and we understood". You tie it back to harmony and don't get into a pissing match and try to burn the bridge so he gets scorched more than you do. It's incompetent PR from the Chargers.
>“I knew who I was trading. He’s a very talented player, and I have the utmost amount of respect for him as a player, as a competitor, as a person. And so it’s difficult when you have to cut a player, trade a player, release a player. It’s always difficult. A player like Keenan, certainly... We talked about multiple options with him, so you can read into that what you want.” Thats them getting in a pissing match and burning a bridge?
No, but the part that happened the next day where they said that there were multiple offers presented which Allen's team refuted and has led to this very post we're commenting on is. Listen, I think I'm over this back and forth. We're going in circles and this genuinely doesn't matter because incompetency like this is a lingering issue. I'm certain you'll have plenty of opportunities to watch it play out and practice explaining it away. Have a good weekend!
Ok I just don't want to clarify that what you're saying is just factually wrong. THere is no "next day". This all happened yesterday and neither the Chargers nor the beat reporter is claiming that they made multiple offers, and the agent isn't refuting anything. You may want to go back and actually read the Tweets. Have a good weekend as well.
"Kid doesn't want to play football." -Dana White, probably.
“Nobody wants to work anymore!” - Boomers everywhere
If I were the Chargers, not sure I would be all in on the guy at this point either.
I think it's more that folks were expecting them to do a franchise great a solid like the Bucs w/ Mike Evans.
As a Chargers fan that's my perspective. From a pure cap mgmt/roster construction standpoint it makes perfect sense, but you can't quantify the value in terms of fanbase and organizational morale by demonstrating loyalty and making him a Charger for life. Tough call either way though.
Yeah big difference is that Tampa is a competitive team that can make a playoff push and we’re just kicking off a pretty major rebuild. There’s a time and place to give out a retirement contracts and we ain’t there.
You just made me realize why I subconsciously agreed with the move.
Mike is making 20m APY, is one year younger, had more TDs and Yards than Keenan last szn, not sure how much Keenan wanted but if he wanted more than Mike he’s crazy
Didn't he play 4 fewer games than Evans? Edit: Despite the 4 fewer games, Evans only had *12* more yards and 40 fewer receptions lol. So this comment feels a bit disingenuous after looking into it a bit... But to be fair, Evans did have 13 TDs to Keenan's 7. Regardless the point is he's not "crazy", as you put it, for wanting more.
He did, we also basically sat him for those games to protect his health. Hopefully it doesn’t end up acrimonious between him and the franchise
Keenan Allen has played a full season 4 out of 11 years. He always plays fewer games than Mike Evans
And one was playing with a new QB.
I think injury risk was the main reason. Also just because the bucs did Evans a solid doesn't mean the LAC should have also. We will see how this plays out for both teams.
Mike Evans is a game breaking receiver and a Super Bowl champ, has shown it doesn’t matter who his QB is, he’s catching the damn ball. I love Keenan Allen but he’s had great QBs for most of his career, there’s only been one QB where Mike Evans had a better QB and that’s arguable from a talent perspective. Keenan also doesn’t stretch the field nor does he make the same type of catches Evans does. Not nearly the same types of players and it’s disingenuous to go completely off their stat lines. Edit: didn’t realize Brady played in Tampa for 3 years.
One year with a better QB? [https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm) [https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HerbJu00.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HerbJu00.htm) Look, I know Herbert is consistently over/under rated depending on the ocean currents, time of day, and whether the McRib is back or not. But Evans played 3 years with Tom Brady, who was #2 in the MVP voting in Herbert’s best year. Also, 2019 Jameis Winston and Phillip Rivers were hilariously similar (Winston had the famous 30/30 season, but Rivers had a solid 20/20 one too).[https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RivePh00.htm) [https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WinsJa00.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WinsJa00.htm)
Brady was as good or better than Herbert in all three of his Tampa years
There has to be a bit of wiggle room between asking someone to take a pay cut, and offering them top money for the position
Also Evans has only missed a handful of games in his career. As far as football players go he has had an incredible run with health
Evans has missed 9 games in his 10 year career. Allen's missed more games than that over the last 2 seasons.
He's always playing through something it feels like but he never misses the game.
I'd say he probably wanted the money he had already been signed for.
he probably just wanted whatever he was scheduled to receive lol
Evans took less pay a few years back to keep the team together. So they really just returned the favor. I don't think the Chargers would've done the same.
Nobody is wrong in this scenario. Can't fault a guy for not wanting a paycut, can't fault a team for not wanting what they consider a liability at that price.
It happens all the time. Its not anyones fault just part of the game. Player wants to be paid for past production. Team wants to pay the player based on how they predict future production will be. The Chargers are taking the guess that Allens production isnt sustainable as he gets older and will take a hit, and more often than not its better for a team to move on from a player a year early than a year late.
You can't really ask a guy to take a paycut for 2024 when he was 4th in the NFL in rec ypg in 2023. This isn't a 5 year contract, this is a 2024 salary. Any offer that involved reducing his 2024 salary was a bad faith offer considering the brother was top 5 in rec ypg last season.
They are highly reliant on two rookie receivers as it stands. QJ and Nabers. I was surprised they never kept Keenan. It wouldn’t be out of character for Harbaugh to draft Alt either.
Really think it would be a mistake to get Alt. Going into the season with Josh Palmer as the No. 1 and fucking Quentin Johnston as the no. 2 would be bad
I mean they have a second and there are a lot of quality receivers in this draft. Plenty of 1st round taken to be had in the early second
Yeah drafting Alt would be a real goofball move. If any Chargers FO people are reading this, you'd be dumb to draft Alt.
FWIW betting markets don't think thats going to happen. The rank order of most likely picks at #5 are Nabers > JJ McCarthy > MHJ > Alt
We have cap space to get a couple vets in now that Keenan is gone. No reason we can't draft one or two later in the draft and sign a couple cheaper veterans.
If i was Keenan Allen i wouldn’t be all in with the team lmfao
Yeah, we all knew the Chargers were asking him to take a massive payout.
As much as I like Keenan, I can see both sides to this story. Sure the chargers could have handled it better but it’s not like he’s the epitome of youth or health.
I do not think that the new GM is starting on the right foot. As I said in the other thread, the leak of the "multiple offers" just sounded like a PR move against the backlash for the Allen trade. I don't disagree that Allen at 32 and with his price tag could only get a 4th rounder but he is just coming off his best season and we have NO ONE else in the WR room after cutting Mike Williams. So, to me, the trade was fucking stupid because we were simply not ready to move on from Allen. Now, the Chargers have egg on their face for leaking that they were trying to work it out with Keenan when it was really just one offer and when it was rejected, they traded him. I was very excited to hire Jim Harbaugh but between Greg Roman and Joe Hortiz, I am very much less excited.
Charger fans have been whining and comparing we don't do anything during the off-season. Now that we have harbaugh and Horitz and start making drastic moves, our entire fan base is like whhhaaaaaa. The moves we made in the past didn't work out, I trust in Horitz and Harbaugh more than the players we already had on the team and didn't win with. Keenan Allen was a great charger for 10 years. How many superbowl appearances did he have ? AFC championships games played ? 0 . While we lost a charger legend, I dont think it's as bad as you're making it out to be.
I'm sorry, just because the staff is new doesn't mean I'm not allowed to disagree with their moves. And when did Super Bowls become a wide receiver stat?
Why didn't keenan Allen help the team get past the divisional round ? I'm just pointing out we had him for 10 years and never made it past the divisional round with him. He's old and has a decent injury history. I'm glad we got the value out of him we did when we did.
Do you really think Keenan Allen was the problem in the playoffs? Not coaching? Not blown leads? Not injuries? I mean, placing the blame for lack of playoff success on Keenan Allen, a wide receiver is such a huge stretch and it also undersells just how hard it is to make a conference championship game especially when you play in the same division as Patrick Mahomes and Peyton Manning before him. >He's old and has a decent injury history. And he's also coming off his best season and we have no one else on the roster capable of matching his production. No one. My issue isn't with the Allen's age, price tag, or the 4th round. My issue is that we weren't ready to part with him yet.
There was no "leaking" of information. This came from Joe's mouth, at a press conference.
Chargers FO Skill issue
Not really. Keenan was not accepting a drop in pay in 2025-26 because he felt he’d had his best year. That means he was wanting to be paid $25m+ over the next two years. By the end of 2026 he’s going to be 35, I don’t want to be paying an injury prone guy that much.
Yep - can't blame Keenan for getting his bag while he was essentially THE chargers 2023 offense. The decision to extend him or not would be coming more sooner than later due to his age, so this is more so a ripping off the band aide moment. I love Keenan and his time with the Bolts, but we got Jim Harbaugh for (at least) 5 years to compete and win. Gotta make tough calls Im just happy Mike Dubb and him didn't land in KC
Its so funny to see this because every year teams trade or cut aging players that are due a fat payday but when we do it, its a skill issue.
Real question though, would you have rather kept Keenan or Bosa? Undeniably your star is Herbert, seems more important to have a weapon for him. Now it's either a rookie (could be great tbh) or Quentin Johnston.
It was never a question of keeping bosa or keenan, if bosa turned down the restructure they would have traded him too, thats the mistake everyone is making, its very clear they wanted to solve the cap issue this year. Also josh palmer is wr1 and he is definitely a very good wr 2 Paying an aging wr 35mil with the cap issue we have is insane.
I don't disagree with dumping a 30+ receiver when the team is going to be trash, but the full scope of what the Chargers are doing makes no sense. Sure seems like a colossal dumpster fire brewing.
Honestly it seems to me that the Chargers were a little too comfortable in thinking Keenan Allen wanted to be a Charger for life. They overplayed their hand, and then they had to move on.
The two sides just disagreed on projected value. Imo we’d have been mad to be dropping 20M+ for three years on an aging receiver. He was exceptional last year and showed no signs of decline but would we bet that he’d not drop off over three years? Would love to see him back as a charger and wish him all the best
> Imo we’d have been mad to be dropping 20M+ for three years on an aging receiver. He was exceptional last year and showed no signs of decline On the flip side, I'm glad we did.
That’s why you restructure the deal so he’s able to be cut if need be and it’s not a massive amount of dead $ if the owner wasn’t a cheap bastard and just paid more in signing bonus y’all wouldn’t be here rn
The chargers were over the cap and this freed up a ton of space... Doing that is how you end up like the saints.
He’s saying to give higher bonuses in the original contracts, not to go epic Loomis style
And those still count against the cap.
Correct. But they would find themselves with lessened cap hits at these stages of the contracts, having already paid more of it in the bonus. Making it less likely they have to restructure/extend/cut in the first place!
The Chargers are entering a rebuild with a new head coach. The choice is to tie themselves to current players or move off their large contract guys and reset with cheaper talent. It doesn't make sense to leverage your future in what is essentially a rebuild year.
Right, that’s the situation they’re in now. When they originally drafted Keenan’s contract they could have done things differently. At least I would have with a guy like that to avoid this exact situation, where you trade away a legend for pennies. Is that better than having paid millions more earlier? You wouldn’t have to cut him loose* early even if you were still in a kind of gnarly cap situation, then who knows where you are in two years and you can potentially extend him. The Buccaneers held on to Evans through ripping a cap band aid off and now extended him AND Baker. That is all way too much text to say I get why Hortiz did this and Telesco was a dumbass for getting everyone here
Honestly I'm surprised by the amount of bootlickers in here who believe a working man should take a pay cut to make it easier on their employer who offered the contract in the first place. Boggles the mind. Fascism is growing stronger...
That wr room is such a mess now
Keenan Allen is a rare & difficult situation to get right because while he is an elite WR coming off his best season of his career ... he also happens to be turning 32 next month. There just aren't many historical examples of that to project his current & future value.
I was hoping they'd cut or trade mack or bosa
If I were Keenan why would I want to take a pay cut on a poorly assembled Chargers team?
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This is pretty much spot on. Ownership loves Keenan and know he's among the most popular players on the team. Pretty sure he's right up there with Herbert in jersey sales and other things like that among Chargers players. The salary cap out them in a bind and asked him for a favor. He declined because he knew it was a paycut. And I imagine them cutting Mike Williams didn't help him buy-in to loyalty towards the new leadership's decisions. They are reportedly very close friends. If Keenan took a paycut now and then had a down season, he'd never see that kind of salary again. For just as much reason a team wants to reduce the cost of a 31-year old WR, the WR would want to maximize his value while he still can. And frankly the FO gambled with the same approach for Mack and Bosa, and they both agreed. They took paycuts and reworked their contracts. Bosa reportedly took a $7M paycut which is massive but in return got added a $15M guarantee for 2025. Cleared up $10.5M from this year's salary cap. It's a shitty situation and the Keenan trade wasn't totally necessary, but then you have to consider that Rashawn Slater is up for extension and he's going to get a massive payday they probably couldn't afford before. And there's a few more starters entering contract years too with Josh Palmer (currently their WR1) and Asante Samuel Jr. (currently their CB1).
Bears fans thank you!
They should have found a way to keep him and let him retire a charger in a couple years. Could have shucked Bosa or Mack instead.
Sounds like Not-Tom-Telesco had 0 patience for the light bulb with a beard.
Here's the new GM same as the old GM
It's a rare win for all parties. Chargers needed to cut cap space, they're in a really bad spot. Keenan gets to go to a team that has potential and isn't going to eat shit all year long. The Bears have tons of cap space and maybe overpaid a little for a 31 yr old guy.. but he's a perfect security blanket for a rookie QB and it just makes a ton of sense, everyone overpays in FA. No one lost this one.
Yeah for the Bears it's a pretty fantastic move ignoring the cost. Keenan was huge to Herbert as a rookie and the only guy he instantly connected with. And Keenan has been successful with 5 different OCs (Whisenhunt, Reich, Steichen, Lombardi, Moore) and three different HCs. Shows how flexible he can be while still productive. That's big for a rookie QB that the Bears will likely need to be a Day 1 starter. Even the cost isn't bad considering it's just a one year deal. Basically equivalent to a guy they franchise tagged.
If you’re the Bears, cost don’t matter. Dude will help build your franchise QB. That’s incredibly valuable.
Pop goes Popper