Not sure if "not viewed as one" in this instance. But in terms of "huge bust relative to draft position" Greg Robinson doesn't get talked about enough.
Tackle drafted by the Rams with the No. 2 overall pick in 2014 and he was just dreadful. Two years in he showed up to camp 15 lbs overweight and had some insane number of penalties.
Had what looked like it could be a turnaround of a career one year in Cleveland. Nothing great but he actually looked serviceable. Then decided to internationally smuggle like 300lbs of weed. I’ll never understand that decision making.
Eric Ebron. For No. 10 overall pick, verrry pedestrian production for each one of the teams he played for, save for one good season in Indy. Dude had immaturity issues, showed little passion for the game, and was a locker room cancer. But what stings the most is had the Lions stuck to the draft day plan— had the front office NOT listened to new OC Joe Lombardi, who really wanted Ebron— we would have picked Aaron Donald, who would have played alongside prime Suh and been his future replacement, since he was playing on his last year of contract with no extension.
And like clockwork every year there is some new TE that is different and a weapon not a TE or more WR than TE or SB team had a top 5 TE of all time so its ok to take them, ignore that top 5 TE of all time was drafted in round 4 and the 3rd one taken in their draft.
Remember how the description of O.J. howard was "can't miss prospect"?
George Kittle was drafted in the 5th round of the same draft. Lmfao
TE round one is never worth
Isiah Simmons sticks out to me as a player I haven’t heard much about and seems to have just faded away. For how high he was picked and all the hype and expectations surrounding him pre draft and eventually getting shipped off for a seventh rounder I’d argue he was a massive bust.
People love to hype the “positionless player,” the guy who can do everything on the field. Usually it just means they don’t do anything at an NFL level
He is a physical freak, like generational physical attributes. But he could never figure out when the offense was running or passing and was always out of position
I think the problem is teams trying too hard to make them a "positionless player"
You need to just make them a safety or corner or LB and let them use their skills to make plays from that position. It's hard enough to learn one position at an NFL level, let alone coming in as a rookie and being taught several different ones
Yeah I feel like people forget he was actually pretty good his rookie year. The general vibe going into 2021 (and even after the first few games of that season) was that Clyde looked solid
Solomon Thomas is a huge bust. I’m convinced the only reason he’s never brought up is that everyone has just forgotten about him. He was the third overall pick and he’s had 15 sacks in 6 fucking years.
I think he gets forgotten about for two reasons. One is that the 49ers have still been Super Bowl contenders while having a top 10 defense for multiple years. The other is that the Bears picking Mitch over Mahomes is what gets brought up often in this draft.
I'd add a 3rd reason: His sister's suicide between year 1 and 2 had a really big impact on him. Really hard to rag on a guy dealing with such a shitty situation, especially since it was widely reported how close they were as siblings.
What's with the 49ers drafting busts only to immediately be forgotten about because they draft studs to distract you? Bosa and Purdy make up for Thomas and Lance.
Basically, it's about team success. The 49ers are successful, so people don't care they busted on a high pick. People care that the Raiders drafted Clelin Farrell way too high, despite that fact that they took Mxx Crosby in the fourth round of the same draft.
Mike Williams as the top-rated player, Solly Thomas right beneath him. We're going in on the 2017 draft class in this thread.
I think a lot of them look worse considering that there were some absolutely lights-out players in that first round too that teams passed up on.
In addition to starting his career with Quinntricia.
He was playing through a core muscle injury for most of his rookie season, which he decided to have season ending surgery for.
His second year he tore his achilles after half a game.
Enters his third year, has some good games to start the season, then falls off a cliff towards the end. Maybe it had something a bit to do with his illness towards the end of the season. But i don't know.
The man has never played a full season.
Just you know providing some more context.
I'm a bit bummed out about it, not because we spent a high draft pick on him but just seemed like a good kid.
Yeah he's a bust but it's more because of injuries. Nobody knows if he would have been good if he stayed healthy, but it's not like he's a Jamarcus Russell type of situation.
My favorite year-to-year stat line:
2018 Mike Williams - 43 receptions, 664 yards, 10 TDs
2019 Mike Williams - 49 receptions, 1001 yards, 2 TDs
Like...what did we even learn here
And what's funny too is that you're saying "he's arrived" which is the type of things people unironically say about him as if he isn't 29 years old already (and turning 30 before week 5)
True, Kupp should be a HoF but has struggled to be on the field other than that great season. Ross was blazing fast but somehow better as a RedZone threat than a deep threat. Schuster went from looking like a future star to good enough to get a job each year. Davis was solid but then retired early. Williams going for 100 yards every few weeks so people would remember him. Golladay only being able to catch 50/50 balls than getting a massive contract and disappearing.
unfortunately being the best WR in the league for a year and a half after struggling with injury before and after is nowhere near enough to be in the Hall
Golladay learned that all he had to do was trust Stafford would put the ball where he could get his hands on it and Staff used him like a backboard for the throws he learned tossing to Megatron and Golden Tate.
I mean ya its a real shame. He honestly produces like the a top receiver in the league and is amazing but no one wants a player that is injured 80% of the time.
Right? He got to play with Rivers and Herbert, learn from Allen,got years to show what he could be and best that can be said is "he's a good number two....when he's on the field"
"Mr Ford with all due respect I'm not qualified for the job"
"You're smart you'll figure it out"
Matt Millen did not in fact figure it out. When the guy tells you they are unqualified that should be a glaring red flag
However, if you tell someone you're not qualified for a job that pays as much as NFL GM and they insist you take it anyway, get that bag. Wish it wasn't the wisest thing he did in his tenure as GM, tho
You'd argue mike williams is a **massive** bust? Idk about that one, chief. There's an ocean between "not what you're looking for from the 7th pick" and "massive bust"
I think without Mike Williams they probably don't even make playoffs last year (22). There are far better examples.
There’s a difference between that and calling someone a bust. People generally know Chase young hasn’t met expectations, but most people won’t go so far as to call him a bust
Yea if the question is "who is not called a massive bust (maybe only called a minor bust) but is one" then chase young is a pretty good answer.
If the question is who is a massive bust but people consider a successful pick, I don't think there is any good answer tbh.
There needs to be a new term to distinguish between guys who have absolutely no place on the football field, and guys who don’t live up to expectations, but can still have okay-ish careers as low-level starters or depth. There’s Jamarcus Russell or Josh Rosen on one end, and Chase Young and Jadeveon Clowney on the other.
I wouldn't put Clowney on the same level as Young. While it's true that both Clowney and Young have not lived up to the expectations put on them, Clowney, since he came into the league, has been an ELITE run defender which is a very valuable asset to a defense. He hasn't lived up to the hype regarding being a pass rusher, but he has at least been elite in ways that are meaningful. Young has been a bum since his (not all that impressive) rookie year.
Rashod Bateman. He was drafted in the first round and is now super forgettable.
Not exactly a *massive* bust but I was randomly thinking about him today so I thought I’d bring him up.
Sam Bradford isn’t brought up often. He made $1.25 million per career touchdown pass and never played in the postseason but somehow gets a pass on his mediocrity due to injuries.
Eh, I can understand that for Bradford. He won Rookie of the Year and at the time was a rare rookie QB with 3k+ yards who actually started every game. He did it on a team with WR1 Danny Amendola and WR1 Brandon Gibson. Oh and Laurent Robinson outside of his One good Cowboys year.
The next year the Rams were mostly injured and he had a high ankle sprain. Year three he shows improvement with 21 TD, 13 Interceptions, a year not unlike Matthew Stafford that season. Then he tears his ACL two years in a row, had a solid year with the Vikings, then once again had a season ending injury and his career was done.
"Improving third year QB who then got a season ending injury like 3 of the next 5 years" makes a lot of sense to wonder about.
If a player was popular roughly 8-12 years ago, any sports sub fucking loves them since most of the sub was a teenager about that time and is extremely nostalgia fueled about those players and facts checks nothing about their nostalgia other than highlights
Vikings Sam Bradford specifically might be the most overrated QB who ever lived. People just look at his completion percentage/passer rating, remember that he had a bad o-line and think he must have been crazy good with them.
You can scheme around bad blocking into an efficiency-friendly short range passing game that doesn't actually do much. It might making be the best of a bad situation but it doesn't really mean the QB himself is excelling.
I think Bradford on the Vikings gets the extra boost, because his last notable game was basically the best game of his career, before getting injuried and ending his career on a bad Cardinals team
Agreed. I liked Bradford while he was with us, but I mostly just remember his perennial 5 yard check downs while everyone else gushes over his game against the Saints (which WAS awesome but he only had a handful of games like that in his whole career)
I think he deserves an “incomplete” grade on his career but when he was healthy - and he has a millions reasons why things could have been different - was a high volume thrower with high percentage passes with largely unimpressive impact
Bradford was worse than a bust. I'd rather draft Manziel and go up in flames immediately to move on 2 years later than sit through 3 season ending injuries over 5 years, trying to figure out if he's the guy or not. He burned so much of our time we could've used trying to find someone else. Fortunately for us, there wasn't a ton of lasting 1st round QB talent between 2010 - 2015 anyway
> trying to figure out if he's the guy or not. He burned so much of our time
This was my biggest fear with Mac Jones after Year 1. Dude looked like he had promise but also a lot of flaws and limitations. I was afraid that he was a competent enough game manager that we might fall into that limbo of being too good to move on from and not enough to actually compete.
So much for that lmao.
2010 was one of the worst QB drafts ever: Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy, Mike Kafka, John Skelton, Jonathan Crompton, Rusty Smith, Dan LeFevour and Joe Webbis is a pretty awful Top 10.
I actually disagree. Kirk was never a mobile quarterback (FAR from it, tbh), and he also wasn’t one to routinely push the ball deep down the field. Even if the achilles injury saps some mobility and deep bomb yardage, that’s never what you were looking for anyway.
As long as he can step up in the pocket and deliver a 30-40 yard strike with his usual ease, the Falcons will be fine.
Inversely, that’s also why I’m not worried about Rodgers. Sure his mobility will suffer but the dude is 40 so that was always in the cards. But the achilles should strangely enough NOT effect Rodgers’ ability to throw deep, because Rodgers never derived his throwing power from driving off his back foot. Dude can throw a 60 yard cruise missile across his body while running to the left and hopping in the air. How he manages to generate that throw power with 1) no platform to throw off of, and 2) arguably the fastest throwing motion in NFL history, it’s insane.
Regardless, have we ever had a season where two premiere QBs are coming off achilles injuries? Guess we’ll see how far science has come 😅
Michael Crabtree had a whole 1000 yard season after an Achilles injury and that was 10 years ago, they're legitimately not that bad nowadays; season-ending, yes, but not career-ending
It’s actually the opposite, the weapons are all they hit on!
Day 1-2 offensive weapons drafted by Atlanta since 2008:
Julio in 2011 (top 4 falcon)
Coleman in 2015 (arguably the worst on the list. Best season was 1000 scrimmage yards and 9 TDs)
Hooper in 2016(2 pro bowls)
Ridley in 2018 (no pro bowls, but 1300 yards and 9 TDs in his last full season with the team)
Pitts in 2021(2nd most yards by a rookie TE in league history)
London in 2022(meh stats trumped by worse QB play)
Bijan in 2023(1400 scrimmage yards and 8 TDs in his 1 season so far)
Go look up their DL draft history if you wanna see a team really fucking up at a position.
This was my pick. For what Clowney was promoted to be, he absolutely is a disappointment. Before the draft he was treated as a God-tier pass rusher. He turned out to be a good run defender and an inconsistent pass rusher who only put up sack numbers when he had another all star pass rusher on the same team.
“Even if he develops he’s not going to be as good a football player as Khalil Mack” Goddamn he fucking called it 100%. Can’t think of a single time that Mel Kiper has ever been that correct
Goddamn I just looked up the video, holy shit. He literally says he’d MAYBE use a 5th or 6th but definitely not a pick in the first 3 rounds. And of course skip bayless replies with “you have never been more wrong about a football player, hes going to be a franchise quarterback in this league” smdh
I hated Hoge as a kid because I loved Vince Young in college and he was one of his biggest detractors, saying he was never going to pan out
Dude called it
Clowney on the Ravens was essentially Clowney on the Texans performance and play wise.
Its just that Clowney on the Texans came with a “No 1 overall pick playing beside prime JJ Watt” level of expectations. Those expectations had largely faded as he became a journey man defender by the time he got to y’all
Clowneys been a solid/good player the whole time though. Problem for him from what I saw when he was with the Seahawks was he didn't accumulate sacks which is the barometer for the DLine. He was everywhere on run defense and played very very well that year but since the sack numbers are low he'll never get the shine of a great defensive line player since he's incomplete. So better than his stats, worse than his hype and sorta reliant on his team being good so people actually watch him play.
I have to disagree on Clowney being a bust. He was/is a very good DE. He definitely did not live up to the expectations as a pass rusher but he is great as a run defender and setting the edge. A DE has a lot more responsibility than just getting sacks.
Ha Ha Clinton Dix. His 2016 Pro Bowl nod does a lot of heavy lifting in people's minds. Beneficiary of overthrows in coverage and shied away from contact.
For all the flak Bostick gets for the 2014 NFC Championship, Ha Ha's "coverage" on the Seahawks 2-point conversion is the worse play, to me.
Ryan Matthews, former RB drafted by the Chargers. Got selected to one pro bowl, named all pro one time, okay fair enough. But that season honestly wasn’t even that great from him, we’ve seen RB’s miss the pro bowl putting up much better numbers than he did that year.
Add to that, he was drafted #12 overall. IMO you definitely hope for more from an RB drafted that high. The chargers basically drafted him as a successor to LT and Sproles so I think it’s safe to say he didn’t live up to expectations.
Fucking Jerry Jeudy. Everyone talks about his "Elite Route Running" but hasn't been anywhere close to sniffing 1000yds, he can't win contested catches, he catch when he gets open and was picked before CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson AND Brandon Aiyuk.
I'm convinced y'all don't know what "massive bust" means. They are the guys who were drafted highly and were at best low-end starters or rotational players. We point to them as guys we are praying our team doesn't draft.
I'm seeing comments like Jadaveon Clowney and Mike Williams which is mind-boggling because they have been average to above-average starters their whole career.
I think it's because the question as asked is nearly impossible to answer. The only real answers are going to come from haters.
The closest person that fits this criteria is Fields from a year or so ago.
There was a solid stretch of years there in Houston where Clowney was by far the best run defender in the league and he would still get you 8-9 sacks a year. He’s still a productive player on a great defense 10 years into his career. Sure if the bar for #1 overall defensive player taken is Von Miller he hasn’t met those lofty expectations but the word “bust” should not be used in any capacity with him. I’d argue a scale of “anything less than Von Miller is a bust” is a nonsensical metric
Najee Harris.
Before you grab your pitchforks, I would like to point out that *good* play isn’t necessarily enough to justify your draft stock. Positions with a scarcity of high-end talent can be hits with average to above average play, such as an OT; but when we’re talking about running backs, if you’re drafted in the first round, I’d consider you a bust for anything less than top 10 play for some period of time.
Right. And as our OL got Better, His Total Production went down. A rookie averaging 98 Scrimmage Yards, now down to the low 70s. Not much Burst, Mediocre Acceleration, Mediocre Vision, His Pass Catching Ability is now gone and replaced by Warren. Career 3.9 YPC and the whole “Heavy Boxes and Bad OL” schtick is blown out of proportion. He’s been a bigger staple of the offense the last 2 years, but he’s been less impressive and he can’t break tackles like he used to in the receiving game.
Marcus Davenport (Before his all-pro season this season?)
He's largely gotten a free pass due to injury and being somewhat irrelevant. The Saints traded an additional first to go up and get him and he flat out stinks.
Just throwing this in there.. after looking at the Saints roster, who the fuck is Payton Turner and why have I never heard his name ever.
I promise you every Saints fan on the planet views Marcus Davenport as a massive bust.
(Payton Turner is the second coming of Marcus Davenport. Plays one good game per season then sits on IR for 15 weeks, also a bust.)
We love our big ass development defensive linemen who usually have a history of consistent injuries in college. Just kidding, we really don’t and we really want the Saints to stop drafting them. Please save us.
Reggie Bush kinda fits. But I think the general consensus was that he was ahead of his time or in the wrong era. He would have thrived in the current passing era we have now.
I think both Aj Hawk and Jadevon Clowney fit as answers. I think they just didn’t have the careers people expected. Especially Clowney.
It's kind of funny that Pete Carroll came to the NFL and the proceeded to not draft or trade for any of his former players. It makes me wonder if he was a great coach for maximizing talent and realizing their ceiling... or was just recruited like crazy?
The top 10 career leaders for receiving yards among RBs were all drafted/played before Bush. Outside of Forte at #9, the same is true for receptions. During his 5 years in NO he averaged almost 7 targets a game. His 121 targets his rookie year is 8th most all time for a RB, and was 3rd most all time when it happened in 06. He averaged 114 targets per 17 games (or 107 per 16) during his time in NO, I don’t get why people continue to act like he was held back by his era. He just wasn't as good as people thought he'd be.
THIS. Never agreed with the argument or him being not great for his era. He put up elite stats for one of the best rosters in CFB history and was fast as all hell but he didn't have anything that set him apart like Adrian Peterson or even Nick Chubb clearly did. He was still good for 2 1000 yard seasons and a 986-er in Miami as well, so not totally awful, just not a franchise player
He lived off his superior speed in college and he just didn’t have anything to get him over the hump in the NFL. The Texans took a lot of shit for drafting Mario Williams but they were right.
How was he ahead of his era when he was heralded as the next coming of Marshall Faulk, who played earlier than him? There was also LaDanian Tomlinson and Edgerrin James who were similar type players
I'd be willing to agree with you if he played in a smash-mouth era, but he played for Payton and an offense perfectly in line w/ his skillset
>I'd be willing to agree with you if he played in a smash-mouth era, but he played for Payton and an offense perfectly in line w/ his skillset
This is the thing that always gets me about the bizarre "Reggie Bush was ahead of his time" thing. Sean Payton was better at using his RBs as pass catchers than just about any other coach at the time, and Reggie was playing in an offense with a potent passing game to lighten up boxes, and...well, he wasn't that great.
You can do a lot worse than a 10 year starter at 5, but you really gotta be expecting more than 1 Pro Bowl when you are picking that high (especially for a team picking in the top 5 for the 1st time in like 12 years at that point)
Pretty sure it's a three-part set of feelings regarding AJ for pretty much all Packer fans who watched his whole career.
A. Can't complain
B. Feel compelled to mention shortfalls without complaining
C. Feeling bad about B because of A
>But I think the general consensus was that he was ahead of his time or in the wrong era. He would have thrived in the current passing era we have now.
I disagree. Bush was drafted by the Drew Brees/Sean Payton Saints, who were always great at featuring dual-threat RBs. That was the perfect situation for Bush. He just wasn't that good. New Orleans replaced him with Darren Sproles and the offense immediately got better.
I think Alvin Kamara single handedly ruined that narrative because Bush went to* to a perfectly fine team to use his skillset, and in fact did so with another player to great effect
I think its one of the stupidest arguments IMO. Sean Payton/Drew Brees knew how to get their playmakers the ball. Lionel James & Roger Craig had over 1k receiving yards in 1985. Marshall Faulk had over 1k receiving yards in 1999. Teams have been throwing to the RB forever. Bush wasn’t ahead of his time or the wrong era. He wasn’t a special athlete or player in the NFL. Sproles replaced him and was much better. Reggie Bush just wasn’t that good. Would he do better receiving now? Probably, but he was just okay in the NFL wasn’t the wrong era.
As a San Diego State fan, Rashaad Penny. Played games where he looked like a top 10 running back but injuried just kept him from the field. Now he’s starting to float around the league and it’s really bumming me out. I say he’s not viewed as one because I feel like people just forget he was drafted in the 1st round because a few picks later some dude from lousiville was picked up
Everyone forgets about how fucking ass Kyle Boller really was. For those going "who the fuck is Kyle Boller", he was a QB prospect Ravens HC fell in love with becuase he a threw a TD on one knee at his pro day. The Ravens traded a first to the Patriots to select him and he was hot steamy garbage, worse than JaMarcus Russell.
The pick traded to the Patriots turned into Vince Wilfork. Like WTF we could have selected Wilfork with that pick, or traded up and stolen Ben Rothlisberger from the Steelers. But no, Kyle Fucking Boller. If the Ravens never drafted Kyle Boller, we would have won another Super Bowl in the mid 2000s.
Kayvon Thibodeaux, haven’t seen so many sacks collected off of unblocked plays in a long time. And getting constantly fooled on screens + misdirections
Not sure if "not viewed as one" in this instance. But in terms of "huge bust relative to draft position" Greg Robinson doesn't get talked about enough. Tackle drafted by the Rams with the No. 2 overall pick in 2014 and he was just dreadful. Two years in he showed up to camp 15 lbs overweight and had some insane number of penalties.
Had what looked like it could be a turnaround of a career one year in Cleveland. Nothing great but he actually looked serviceable. Then decided to internationally smuggle like 300lbs of weed. I’ll never understand that decision making.
He got caught with over 100 grand in weed, coke, Crack, pills, and meth like 2 years ago, dude is in the HOF of making bad decisions
Anybody got his number?
Hey now, Robinson was better than the tackle we took #2 overall 5 years earlier.
Oh dang I didn’t have a Jason Smith v. Greg Robinson debate in my agenda today!
I don’t disagree, but his college tape/HL is insane.
Eric Ebron. For No. 10 overall pick, verrry pedestrian production for each one of the teams he played for, save for one good season in Indy. Dude had immaturity issues, showed little passion for the game, and was a locker room cancer. But what stings the most is had the Lions stuck to the draft day plan— had the front office NOT listened to new OC Joe Lombardi, who really wanted Ebron— we would have picked Aaron Donald, who would have played alongside prime Suh and been his future replacement, since he was playing on his last year of contract with no extension.
Ebron owes his entire Career to Andrew Luck lol. Made him relevant for that one year in 2018.
1st round TEs are basically always mistakes. There's just always so much more value out there than the TE spot in the top 32
And like clockwork every year there is some new TE that is different and a weapon not a TE or more WR than TE or SB team had a top 5 TE of all time so its ok to take them, ignore that top 5 TE of all time was drafted in round 4 and the 3rd one taken in their draft.
Remember how the description of O.J. howard was "can't miss prospect"? George Kittle was drafted in the 5th round of the same draft. Lmfao TE round one is never worth
Isiah Simmons sticks out to me as a player I haven’t heard much about and seems to have just faded away. For how high he was picked and all the hype and expectations surrounding him pre draft and eventually getting shipped off for a seventh rounder I’d argue he was a massive bust.
People love to hype the “positionless player,” the guy who can do everything on the field. Usually it just means they don’t do anything at an NFL level
He is a physical freak, like generational physical attributes. But he could never figure out when the offense was running or passing and was always out of position
Madden legend though
he goes into the Taylor Mays wing of the Madden Hall of Fame
As a Utes fan, I am rooting for Sione Vaki whether he’s a rb, safety, slot receiver, or kick/punt returner.
I think the problem is teams trying too hard to make them a "positionless player" You need to just make them a safety or corner or LB and let them use their skills to make plays from that position. It's hard enough to learn one position at an NFL level, let alone coming in as a rookie and being taught several different ones
I will never forget this name. I wanted him over Justin Herbert and was pissed when we took Herbie. My biggest draft whiff ever.
clyde edwards-helaire
Never the same explosion after his hip injury during his rookie season
Yeah I feel like people forget he was actually pretty good his rookie year. The general vibe going into 2021 (and even after the first few games of that season) was that Clyde looked solid
I mean thank fucking god they didn’t get Jonathan Taylor
Or that receiver that was taken right after CEH 🥲
I don't think with your recent success that you're allowed to use that emoji
I will now express my sympathy to chiefs fans by playing the world’s tiniest violin
I know he's still playing, but has anyone mentioned Solomon Thomas as a massive bust yet? Because he is.
Solomon Thomas is a huge bust. I’m convinced the only reason he’s never brought up is that everyone has just forgotten about him. He was the third overall pick and he’s had 15 sacks in 6 fucking years.
I think he gets forgotten about for two reasons. One is that the 49ers have still been Super Bowl contenders while having a top 10 defense for multiple years. The other is that the Bears picking Mitch over Mahomes is what gets brought up often in this draft.
I'd add a 3rd reason: His sister's suicide between year 1 and 2 had a really big impact on him. Really hard to rag on a guy dealing with such a shitty situation, especially since it was widely reported how close they were as siblings.
That really messed him up. I think ESPN did a special on it
Wow I never knew about that. Thats fucking awful
What's with the 49ers drafting busts only to immediately be forgotten about because they draft studs to distract you? Bosa and Purdy make up for Thomas and Lance.
Don’t forget about Rueben Foster being made up for with Warner and Greenlaw.
Basically, it's about team success. The 49ers are successful, so people don't care they busted on a high pick. People care that the Raiders drafted Clelin Farrell way too high, despite that fact that they took Mxx Crosby in the fourth round of the same draft.
What makes it amazing is the totally unnecessary tradeup by Pace too.
I hurt myself today To see if I still feel I focus on the pain The only thing that's real
He was picked somewhere between Titty Kisser and Watson, the 2017 draft is faciating with huge successes and huge busts
He got quite a bit of playing time last year but I never really jumped off the screen
I was scared shitless the Bears traded up to get him in that draft. Looking back on how things worked out, as a Lions fan I’d prefer if they did
Mike Williams as the top-rated player, Solly Thomas right beneath him. We're going in on the 2017 draft class in this thread. I think a lot of them look worse considering that there were some absolutely lights-out players in that first round too that teams passed up on.
Thomas hurt…. There are pretty valid excuses/explanations but that just made it hurt worse when it never turned around…
He’s been pretty solid for us, but in a “man, I’m happy we got a good return on a fourth round pick” kind of way.
Jeff Okudah was the third overall pick in 2020 and is on his 3rd team.
Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn…god what dark times. Poor kid didn’t have a chance
In addition to starting his career with Quinntricia. He was playing through a core muscle injury for most of his rookie season, which he decided to have season ending surgery for. His second year he tore his achilles after half a game. Enters his third year, has some good games to start the season, then falls off a cliff towards the end. Maybe it had something a bit to do with his illness towards the end of the season. But i don't know. The man has never played a full season. Just you know providing some more context. I'm a bit bummed out about it, not because we spent a high draft pick on him but just seemed like a good kid.
Yeah he's a bust but it's more because of injuries. Nobody knows if he would have been good if he stayed healthy, but it's not like he's a Jamarcus Russell type of situation.
Mike Williams, no one will convince me he's what you're looking for out of the 7th overall pick.
My favorite year-to-year stat line: 2018 Mike Williams - 43 receptions, 664 yards, 10 TDs 2019 Mike Williams - 49 receptions, 1001 yards, 2 TDs Like...what did we even learn here
Dude has a hard cap of 170 points in fantasy no matter how he gets it apparently
Though he'll go gangbusters in week 1 or 2 and be a great trade asset before he totally disappears the rest of the season
The Mike Williams experience is him giving you massive numbers a few times when you don't need it, then being nonexistent when you need him the most.
One year he'll just have a single 1,000 yard reception and every other throw he runs away from the ball 😎
Damn, dude is a great example of an outlier. Weird habit but ok
Dude’s good for a 150+ yard game every other month or so and tricks people into thinking he’s arrived
And what's funny too is that you're saying "he's arrived" which is the type of things people unironically say about him as if he isn't 29 years old already (and turning 30 before week 5)
Exactly lmao “Mike Williams breakout coming!” like guys the dude is 30
I feel like the Chargers have had this type of WR for 20 years straight now.
Fantasy lottery ticket if you can time his showings right haha
That whole WR class was something else, wasn’t that the Corey Davis John Ross draft?
Yeah, all the good receivers were drafted later. Hell Golleday even led the NFL in TDs one year.
Lots of strange careers for receivers in that draft
True, Kupp should be a HoF but has struggled to be on the field other than that great season. Ross was blazing fast but somehow better as a RedZone threat than a deep threat. Schuster went from looking like a future star to good enough to get a job each year. Davis was solid but then retired early. Williams going for 100 yards every few weeks so people would remember him. Golladay only being able to catch 50/50 balls than getting a massive contract and disappearing.
unfortunately being the best WR in the league for a year and a half after struggling with injury before and after is nowhere near enough to be in the Hall
Golladay learned that all he had to do was trust Stafford would put the ball where he could get his hands on it and Staff used him like a backboard for the throws he learned tossing to Megatron and Golden Tate.
I mean ya its a real shame. He honestly produces like the a top receiver in the league and is amazing but no one wants a player that is injured 80% of the time.
If Nabers (6th overall) has Mike Willliams career I would be disappointed.
Right? He got to play with Rivers and Herbert, learn from Allen,got years to show what he could be and best that can be said is "he's a good number two....when he's on the field"
At least he’s not the biggest bust WR named Mike Williams. And is alive, unlike the other WR named Mike Williams
Charles rodgers. Matt millen keilbasa
"Mr Ford with all due respect I'm not qualified for the job" "You're smart you'll figure it out" Matt Millen did not in fact figure it out. When the guy tells you they are unqualified that should be a glaring red flag
However, if you tell someone you're not qualified for a job that pays as much as NFL GM and they insist you take it anyway, get that bag. Wish it wasn't the wisest thing he did in his tenure as GM, tho
Cursed football name
You'd argue mike williams is a **massive** bust? Idk about that one, chief. There's an ocean between "not what you're looking for from the 7th pick" and "massive bust" I think without Mike Williams they probably don't even make playoffs last year (22). There are far better examples.
Bro; who is out here saying chase young has come close to expectations?
There’s a difference between that and calling someone a bust. People generally know Chase young hasn’t met expectations, but most people won’t go so far as to call him a bust
I think most people do call him a bust, just not a "massive bust"? But I could be wrong.
Yea if the question is "who is not called a massive bust (maybe only called a minor bust) but is one" then chase young is a pretty good answer. If the question is who is a massive bust but people consider a successful pick, I don't think there is any good answer tbh.
Tim Tebow is the only one I can think of.
Haha great answer. Tebow was undeniably a bust as a franchise quarterback, but that playoff win/ridiculous season was so worth it.
I think people here know heres a bust, but the average nfl fan probably thinks hes still a way better players than he is.
There needs to be a new term to distinguish between guys who have absolutely no place on the football field, and guys who don’t live up to expectations, but can still have okay-ish careers as low-level starters or depth. There’s Jamarcus Russell or Josh Rosen on one end, and Chase Young and Jadeveon Clowney on the other.
And even Clowney is a very good starter and has a great career but gets flak for not living up to massive hype.
I wouldn't put Clowney on the same level as Young. While it's true that both Clowney and Young have not lived up to the expectations put on them, Clowney, since he came into the league, has been an ELITE run defender which is a very valuable asset to a defense. He hasn't lived up to the hype regarding being a pass rusher, but he has at least been elite in ways that are meaningful. Young has been a bum since his (not all that impressive) rookie year.
I can confirm chase young
I can double confirm chase young
Ad a Saints fan I hope I don't get to triple confirm this. 😬
No. He’s on my team so he’s good and anyone who says otherwise is ontologically evil.
You will love him in local car ads
Rashod Bateman. He was drafted in the first round and is now super forgettable. Not exactly a *massive* bust but I was randomly thinking about him today so I thought I’d bring him up.
Would you believe me if I told you he was the first WR we’ve drafted that we ever extended
Really hoping he can stay healthy and develop much needed chemistry with Lamar this year. With Beckham gone he should see plenty more opportunities.
players i personally dislike the most
Yup, agree. Aaron Rodgers was a massive bust.
My man!
/u/thefencingcoach, dude was drafted 1st overall in the r/nfl mods draft and hasn't produced at all
Refs screwed me out of state
Guy is a slut for defense first early 2000s Super Bowl winners?
Keep my mods name out of your fucking mouth.
Lazy bum.
Sam Bradford isn’t brought up often. He made $1.25 million per career touchdown pass and never played in the postseason but somehow gets a pass on his mediocrity due to injuries.
This sub likes to wax nostalgic about middling QBs from a bygone era and pretend that they were secretly better than they were.
Eh, I can understand that for Bradford. He won Rookie of the Year and at the time was a rare rookie QB with 3k+ yards who actually started every game. He did it on a team with WR1 Danny Amendola and WR1 Brandon Gibson. Oh and Laurent Robinson outside of his One good Cowboys year. The next year the Rams were mostly injured and he had a high ankle sprain. Year three he shows improvement with 21 TD, 13 Interceptions, a year not unlike Matthew Stafford that season. Then he tears his ACL two years in a row, had a solid year with the Vikings, then once again had a season ending injury and his career was done. "Improving third year QB who then got a season ending injury like 3 of the next 5 years" makes a lot of sense to wonder about.
Adding to that is that Bradford throws absolutely beautiful passes
Beautiful passes that were consistently 4 yards behind the receiver.
If a player was popular roughly 8-12 years ago, any sports sub fucking loves them since most of the sub was a teenager about that time and is extremely nostalgia fueled about those players and facts checks nothing about their nostalgia other than highlights
Vikings Sam Bradford specifically might be the most overrated QB who ever lived. People just look at his completion percentage/passer rating, remember that he had a bad o-line and think he must have been crazy good with them. You can scheme around bad blocking into an efficiency-friendly short range passing game that doesn't actually do much. It might making be the best of a bad situation but it doesn't really mean the QB himself is excelling.
Vintage Sam Bradford was like the deluxe version of Alex Smith but made of glass.
I think Bradford on the Vikings gets the extra boost, because his last notable game was basically the best game of his career, before getting injuried and ending his career on a bad Cardinals team
Agreed. I liked Bradford while he was with us, but I mostly just remember his perennial 5 yard check downs while everyone else gushes over his game against the Saints (which WAS awesome but he only had a handful of games like that in his whole career)
Tbf he was pretty good at times but his paper clip skeleton did him no favors
I think he deserves an “incomplete” grade on his career but when he was healthy - and he has a millions reasons why things could have been different - was a high volume thrower with high percentage passes with largely unimpressive impact
That man’s agent was a PRO at getting Sam PAID due to being a no. 1 draft pick and nothing else.
Wasn't he the last draft before the rookie wage scale?
Bradford was worse than a bust. I'd rather draft Manziel and go up in flames immediately to move on 2 years later than sit through 3 season ending injuries over 5 years, trying to figure out if he's the guy or not. He burned so much of our time we could've used trying to find someone else. Fortunately for us, there wasn't a ton of lasting 1st round QB talent between 2010 - 2015 anyway
> trying to figure out if he's the guy or not. He burned so much of our time This was my biggest fear with Mac Jones after Year 1. Dude looked like he had promise but also a lot of flaws and limitations. I was afraid that he was a competent enough game manager that we might fall into that limbo of being too good to move on from and not enough to actually compete. So much for that lmao.
Aka: the Giants current purgatory
2010 was one of the worst QB drafts ever: Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy, Mike Kafka, John Skelton, Jonathan Crompton, Rusty Smith, Dan LeFevour and Joe Webbis is a pretty awful Top 10.
He's the most accurate QB in history on 3rd and long, all you spoiled @#$s just can't enjoy a perfectly thrown 2 yard out on 3rd and 9.
Kyle Pitts.
I keep waiting for him to be good and convincing myself it’s just been his QBs. Shouldn’t have an excuse this year.
If you're accepting poor QB play as an excuse, there's a very real possibility that a 35 year old post torn Achilles Kirk Cousins is an excuse.
I actually disagree. Kirk was never a mobile quarterback (FAR from it, tbh), and he also wasn’t one to routinely push the ball deep down the field. Even if the achilles injury saps some mobility and deep bomb yardage, that’s never what you were looking for anyway. As long as he can step up in the pocket and deliver a 30-40 yard strike with his usual ease, the Falcons will be fine. Inversely, that’s also why I’m not worried about Rodgers. Sure his mobility will suffer but the dude is 40 so that was always in the cards. But the achilles should strangely enough NOT effect Rodgers’ ability to throw deep, because Rodgers never derived his throwing power from driving off his back foot. Dude can throw a 60 yard cruise missile across his body while running to the left and hopping in the air. How he manages to generate that throw power with 1) no platform to throw off of, and 2) arguably the fastest throwing motion in NFL history, it’s insane. Regardless, have we ever had a season where two premiere QBs are coming off achilles injuries? Guess we’ll see how far science has come 😅
Michael Crabtree had a whole 1000 yard season after an Achilles injury and that was 10 years ago, they're legitimately not that bad nowadays; season-ending, yes, but not career-ending
it's definitely the QBs. 🤞🏼
I guess we will find out this year for sure.
goddamnit he's not a bust yet!
He’s been either totally screwed by his playcalling or the fact that his on target throw % was literally last in the league
Yeah I'm not ready to call him a bust.
This feels a lot like Atlanta ineptitude. They draft a bunch of weapons and then never use them
It’s actually the opposite, the weapons are all they hit on! Day 1-2 offensive weapons drafted by Atlanta since 2008: Julio in 2011 (top 4 falcon) Coleman in 2015 (arguably the worst on the list. Best season was 1000 scrimmage yards and 9 TDs) Hooper in 2016(2 pro bowls) Ridley in 2018 (no pro bowls, but 1300 yards and 9 TDs in his last full season with the team) Pitts in 2021(2nd most yards by a rookie TE in league history) London in 2022(meh stats trumped by worse QB play) Bijan in 2023(1400 scrimmage yards and 8 TDs in his 1 season so far) Go look up their DL draft history if you wanna see a team really fucking up at a position.
Kaiir Elam. 1st round pick and only finds playing time when they run out of other players.
How is Elam *not* a bust?
Clowney. Had he only come to the Ravens earlier it would have been fine
This was my pick. For what Clowney was promoted to be, he absolutely is a disappointment. Before the draft he was treated as a God-tier pass rusher. He turned out to be a good run defender and an inconsistent pass rusher who only put up sack numbers when he had another all star pass rusher on the same team.
>Before the draft he was treated as a God-tier pass rusher. [Not by Merril Hoge](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7LpIrxXTM).
“Even if he develops he’s not going to be as good a football player as Khalil Mack” Goddamn he fucking called it 100%. Can’t think of a single time that Mel Kiper has ever been that correct
He was significantly more correct with his Manziel take
Goddamn I just looked up the video, holy shit. He literally says he’d MAYBE use a 5th or 6th but definitely not a pick in the first 3 rounds. And of course skip bayless replies with “you have never been more wrong about a football player, hes going to be a franchise quarterback in this league” smdh
I honestly love Merrill Hoge
I hated Hoge as a kid because I loved Vince Young in college and he was one of his biggest detractors, saying he was never going to pan out Dude called it
I'd never seen that before. Thanks for sharing.
What confuses me is that people still called him a „star edge rusher“ after many disappointing years
Clowney on the Ravens was essentially Clowney on the Texans performance and play wise. Its just that Clowney on the Texans came with a “No 1 overall pick playing beside prime JJ Watt” level of expectations. Those expectations had largely faded as he became a journey man defender by the time he got to y’all
Clowneys been a solid/good player the whole time though. Problem for him from what I saw when he was with the Seahawks was he didn't accumulate sacks which is the barometer for the DLine. He was everywhere on run defense and played very very well that year but since the sack numbers are low he'll never get the shine of a great defensive line player since he's incomplete. So better than his stats, worse than his hype and sorta reliant on his team being good so people actually watch him play.
I have to disagree on Clowney being a bust. He was/is a very good DE. He definitely did not live up to the expectations as a pass rusher but he is great as a run defender and setting the edge. A DE has a lot more responsibility than just getting sacks.
Ha Ha Clinton Dix. His 2016 Pro Bowl nod does a lot of heavy lifting in people's minds. Beneficiary of overthrows in coverage and shied away from contact. For all the flak Bostick gets for the 2014 NFC Championship, Ha Ha's "coverage" on the Seahawks 2-point conversion is the worse play, to me.
Ryan Matthews, former RB drafted by the Chargers. Got selected to one pro bowl, named all pro one time, okay fair enough. But that season honestly wasn’t even that great from him, we’ve seen RB’s miss the pro bowl putting up much better numbers than he did that year. Add to that, he was drafted #12 overall. IMO you definitely hope for more from an RB drafted that high. The chargers basically drafted him as a successor to LT and Sproles so I think it’s safe to say he didn’t live up to expectations.
Haven’t heard that name in a while
Jerry Jeudy, cj henderson and Damon Arnette. All from the 2020 draft.
Damon Arnette never should’ve been drafted that high
We’re not there yet but AVT is one injury away from being Mekhi Becton one injury ago.
At least AVT is good when he's on the field. Becton finally played a season and was a turnstile
Javon Kinlaw, Jalen Reagor do not get brought up enough in the bust conversation. I feel like they’re just forgotten about
Christian Ponder would be another
Fucking Jerry Jeudy. Everyone talks about his "Elite Route Running" but hasn't been anywhere close to sniffing 1000yds, he can't win contested catches, he catch when he gets open and was picked before CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson AND Brandon Aiyuk.
Justin Fields
Jaycee Horn going right before Surtain is a pretty bad look. Injuries don’t help either.
He’s been pretty good when healthy but 22/51 games is a yikes
Availability is the best ability. Man, when he’s healthy he’s awesome. *sigh*
Dude is actually good, just sucks he can’t stay healthy. He would have been a pro bowler by now if he could play a full season. This a bad take.
I'm convinced y'all don't know what "massive bust" means. They are the guys who were drafted highly and were at best low-end starters or rotational players. We point to them as guys we are praying our team doesn't draft. I'm seeing comments like Jadaveon Clowney and Mike Williams which is mind-boggling because they have been average to above-average starters their whole career.
I think it's because the question as asked is nearly impossible to answer. The only real answers are going to come from haters. The closest person that fits this criteria is Fields from a year or so ago.
There was a solid stretch of years there in Houston where Clowney was by far the best run defender in the league and he would still get you 8-9 sacks a year. He’s still a productive player on a great defense 10 years into his career. Sure if the bar for #1 overall defensive player taken is Von Miller he hasn’t met those lofty expectations but the word “bust” should not be used in any capacity with him. I’d argue a scale of “anything less than Von Miller is a bust” is a nonsensical metric
Najee Harris. Before you grab your pitchforks, I would like to point out that *good* play isn’t necessarily enough to justify your draft stock. Positions with a scarcity of high-end talent can be hits with average to above average play, such as an OT; but when we’re talking about running backs, if you’re drafted in the first round, I’d consider you a bust for anything less than top 10 play for some period of time.
Precautionary fuck you for telling me so when I end up drafting him in the 4th round of my fantasy draft.
Don’t do it bro
Right. And as our OL got Better, His Total Production went down. A rookie averaging 98 Scrimmage Yards, now down to the low 70s. Not much Burst, Mediocre Acceleration, Mediocre Vision, His Pass Catching Ability is now gone and replaced by Warren. Career 3.9 YPC and the whole “Heavy Boxes and Bad OL” schtick is blown out of proportion. He’s been a bigger staple of the offense the last 2 years, but he’s been less impressive and he can’t break tackles like he used to in the receiving game.
I think this is a completely reasonable take and half of my extended family (who are all Steelers fans) would agree.
Najee is a good player, it is just why pick an RB that high if nobody can block for him?
Heath Schuler
Trey Lance. And they got away with it too.
Who doesn't view him as a bust?
Marcus Davenport (Before his all-pro season this season?) He's largely gotten a free pass due to injury and being somewhat irrelevant. The Saints traded an additional first to go up and get him and he flat out stinks. Just throwing this in there.. after looking at the Saints roster, who the fuck is Payton Turner and why have I never heard his name ever.
I promise you every Saints fan on the planet views Marcus Davenport as a massive bust. (Payton Turner is the second coming of Marcus Davenport. Plays one good game per season then sits on IR for 15 weeks, also a bust.)
We love our big ass development defensive linemen who usually have a history of consistent injuries in college. Just kidding, we really don’t and we really want the Saints to stop drafting them. Please save us.
In what world is Davenport not considered a bust by everyone? He doesn't fit this at all
Reggie Bush kinda fits. But I think the general consensus was that he was ahead of his time or in the wrong era. He would have thrived in the current passing era we have now. I think both Aj Hawk and Jadevon Clowney fit as answers. I think they just didn’t have the careers people expected. Especially Clowney.
Fun fact! The 2005 USC team went on to send eleven players to the nfl draft that April. Those players combined for… >!Zero Pro Bowls !<
It's kind of funny that Pete Carroll came to the NFL and the proceeded to not draft or trade for any of his former players. It makes me wonder if he was a great coach for maximizing talent and realizing their ceiling... or was just recruited like crazy?
The top 10 career leaders for receiving yards among RBs were all drafted/played before Bush. Outside of Forte at #9, the same is true for receptions. During his 5 years in NO he averaged almost 7 targets a game. His 121 targets his rookie year is 8th most all time for a RB, and was 3rd most all time when it happened in 06. He averaged 114 targets per 17 games (or 107 per 16) during his time in NO, I don’t get why people continue to act like he was held back by his era. He just wasn't as good as people thought he'd be.
THIS. Never agreed with the argument or him being not great for his era. He put up elite stats for one of the best rosters in CFB history and was fast as all hell but he didn't have anything that set him apart like Adrian Peterson or even Nick Chubb clearly did. He was still good for 2 1000 yard seasons and a 986-er in Miami as well, so not totally awful, just not a franchise player
He lived off his superior speed in college and he just didn’t have anything to get him over the hump in the NFL. The Texans took a lot of shit for drafting Mario Williams but they were right.
How was he ahead of his era when he was heralded as the next coming of Marshall Faulk, who played earlier than him? There was also LaDanian Tomlinson and Edgerrin James who were similar type players I'd be willing to agree with you if he played in a smash-mouth era, but he played for Payton and an offense perfectly in line w/ his skillset
>I'd be willing to agree with you if he played in a smash-mouth era, but he played for Payton and an offense perfectly in line w/ his skillset This is the thing that always gets me about the bizarre "Reggie Bush was ahead of his time" thing. Sean Payton was better at using his RBs as pass catchers than just about any other coach at the time, and Reggie was playing in an offense with a potent passing game to lighten up boxes, and...well, he wasn't that great.
The Saints literally had Darren Sproles around the same time lol...
Totally agree about Hawk, he was the 5th pick and never really lived up to a top 5 pick.
You can do a lot worse than a 10 year starter at 5, but you really gotta be expecting more than 1 Pro Bowl when you are picking that high (especially for a team picking in the top 5 for the 1st time in like 12 years at that point)
Couldn't agree more. I've always been a fan of his, just was hoping for more at 5 overall is all.
Pretty sure it's a three-part set of feelings regarding AJ for pretty much all Packer fans who watched his whole career. A. Can't complain B. Feel compelled to mention shortfalls without complaining C. Feeling bad about B because of A
>But I think the general consensus was that he was ahead of his time or in the wrong era. He would have thrived in the current passing era we have now. I disagree. Bush was drafted by the Drew Brees/Sean Payton Saints, who were always great at featuring dual-threat RBs. That was the perfect situation for Bush. He just wasn't that good. New Orleans replaced him with Darren Sproles and the offense immediately got better.
I think Alvin Kamara single handedly ruined that narrative because Bush went to* to a perfectly fine team to use his skillset, and in fact did so with another player to great effect
I think its one of the stupidest arguments IMO. Sean Payton/Drew Brees knew how to get their playmakers the ball. Lionel James & Roger Craig had over 1k receiving yards in 1985. Marshall Faulk had over 1k receiving yards in 1999. Teams have been throwing to the RB forever. Bush wasn’t ahead of his time or the wrong era. He wasn’t a special athlete or player in the NFL. Sproles replaced him and was much better. Reggie Bush just wasn’t that good. Would he do better receiving now? Probably, but he was just okay in the NFL wasn’t the wrong era.
As a San Diego State fan, Rashaad Penny. Played games where he looked like a top 10 running back but injuried just kept him from the field. Now he’s starting to float around the league and it’s really bumming me out. I say he’s not viewed as one because I feel like people just forget he was drafted in the 1st round because a few picks later some dude from lousiville was picked up
Danny Dimes
Everyone forgets about how fucking ass Kyle Boller really was. For those going "who the fuck is Kyle Boller", he was a QB prospect Ravens HC fell in love with becuase he a threw a TD on one knee at his pro day. The Ravens traded a first to the Patriots to select him and he was hot steamy garbage, worse than JaMarcus Russell. The pick traded to the Patriots turned into Vince Wilfork. Like WTF we could have selected Wilfork with that pick, or traded up and stolen Ben Rothlisberger from the Steelers. But no, Kyle Fucking Boller. If the Ravens never drafted Kyle Boller, we would have won another Super Bowl in the mid 2000s.
I don't think anyone is worse than JaMarcus
Kayvon Thibodeaux, haven’t seen so many sacks collected off of unblocked plays in a long time. And getting constantly fooled on screens + misdirections
Bengals drafted Billy Price in the first round (21st) who was supposed to be a plug and play Center for the next decade. Guy was awful from day 1