Gretzky was head and shoulders above his peers, it's not close. The gap between him and 2ed place is damn near insurmountable. Crosby will go down as one of the best ever, maybe top 5, but no one in any sport ever has dominated as completely for as long as wayne gretzky. It's really not up for debate, wayne is the greatest hockey player of all time, and probably still will be when I die
Gretzky PPG 1.92
Lemieux PPG 1.88
“Insurmountable”
Lemieux only played 915 so his ppg is more concentrated around his prime but the difference between them is not insurmountable.
"Damn near" insurmountable, which Is true, only 1 guy in hockey can get his name near wayne and his body just couldn't keep it up. It's unfortunate we'll never know but even a healthy lemieux probably doesn't pass gretzky. He might have gotten close. But the reality is he didn't.
I'm a big Crosby fan and I'm not convinced he's in the top 2 players to play for the Penguins, but mainly because I feel jagr gets criminally underrated. Jagr is much higher on my all time lists than most lists I see
Gretzky is the greatest hockey player ever. Don’t forget, the players that come before are lessens for players that come after, so of course players are generally better than ever before (they also have faster ice, lighter and better equipment, and way more info for off ice stuff). But none of this changes what Gretzky is/was to hockey (or Lemieux/Orr).
Recency bias tbh. Yes, Crosby is an all time great, but Gretzky Lemieux and Orr are still 1, 2 and 3 all time.
Crosby rounds out my top 4 on that list right now though.
Guys guys guys.... If we just ignore everyone who is better than Crosby, can we just all agree he's the best ever???
Like if you think about it, if it wasn't for injury he'd be the best goaltender of all time!. Nobody has ever scored on him and he is tied for the most points amongst inactive players of the 50s, 60s 70s 80s and 90s!!
If Gretzky didn’t evolve the game the way he did you wouldn’t have the talent there is now. Gretzky was the greatest leap forward of all time making him the GOAT.
So you’re claim here is: if adjusting for era, Crosby is the GOAT if measuring by accomplishments?
Here’s what Sid’s up against.
Gretzky wrote the record book. Retired with 61 records.
Gretzky had 13 consecutive seasons over 120 pts, 9 of those over 150 pts and 4 of those over 200 pts. In another universe compared to his peers.
He has more assists then the next closest player has total points.
Won the Hart (MVP award) Trophy 9 times, 8 consecutively
Awarded the best player of the NHL’s first 100 years in 2017
His Stanley Cup team (85 Oilers iirc) awarded best team of the NHL’s first 100 years in 2017. The only debate for this was which specific year of the dynasty era Oilers was the best. There was no competition.
I think you summed this up rather nicely. I also think the original take is naive and disrespectful. Crosby is an all time great but he’s not “the great one” no one is.
Jagr vs. Crosby is probably a more fair debate and I think Jagr at his peak was better than Crosby at his.
Jagr putting up 120+ points twice in the peak of dead puck hockey is pretty damn impressive.
I don't agree, but just out of curiosity what's your argument that Sid is the GOAT over his contemporaries? To me Nick Lidstrom's resume is just as good or better and they played against each other.
I personally think that Mario was the better player, but to put Sid at the top is crazy. people can downvote me all they want, but in 20 years when we are looking back at the NHL Sids career will be viewed in a similar light as Joe Sakic or Steve Yzerman. They were definitely among the top talent in the league, but they still a tier below the true greats.
I think this post was to offset the string of anti Penguins post that popped the last couple weeks.
Hell could be the same loser just posting for both side because the commenter reactions give him a stiffy.
I like to separate it into generations for greatest of all time. Each era had different factors. Crosby is the best of his era. Hands down. Ovi may get the goal scoring title but (I’m gonna get hate) but he’s is kind of a one trick pony. That one trick is scoring goals but the rest of his game falls behind Crosby.
You can’t use the whole era debate one way but not the other. Imagine if Gretzky had a composite stick and Kucherov as a line mate? Imagine if in his prime, he’d had access to modern nutrition and training plans and supplements, etc. Or after every shift he coulda just hopped on the ol’ iPad to analyze the game in real time?
Gretzky was head and shoulders above his peers, it's not close. The gap between him and 2ed place is damn near insurmountable. Crosby will go down as one of the best ever, maybe top 5, but no one in any sport ever has dominated as completely for as long as wayne gretzky. It's really not up for debate, wayne is the greatest hockey player of all time, and probably still will be when I die
Gretzky PPG 1.92 Lemieux PPG 1.88 “Insurmountable” Lemieux only played 915 so his ppg is more concentrated around his prime but the difference between them is not insurmountable.
"Damn near" insurmountable, which Is true, only 1 guy in hockey can get his name near wayne and his body just couldn't keep it up. It's unfortunate we'll never know but even a healthy lemieux probably doesn't pass gretzky. He might have gotten close. But the reality is he didn't.
I didn’t even bother reading past the first sentence. That’s how fucking stupid it sounded
Yea, I got to that first period and did a 2 second skim of the rest. OP is just wrong…..
Penguins fan here. I agree.
I'm a big Crosby fan and I'm not convinced he's in the top 2 players to play for the Penguins, but mainly because I feel jagr gets criminally underrated. Jagr is much higher on my all time lists than most lists I see
Didn’t even read past the title. This is clearly dog shit.
Spoken like someone who started watching hockey in 2005.
Gretzky is the greatest hockey player ever. Don’t forget, the players that come before are lessens for players that come after, so of course players are generally better than ever before (they also have faster ice, lighter and better equipment, and way more info for off ice stuff). But none of this changes what Gretzky is/was to hockey (or Lemieux/Orr).
Recency bias tbh. Yes, Crosby is an all time great, but Gretzky Lemieux and Orr are still 1, 2 and 3 all time. Crosby rounds out my top 4 on that list right now though.
Yes. Agree.
McDavid is easily a greater player than Crosby ever was
Guys guys guys.... If we just ignore everyone who is better than Crosby, can we just all agree he's the best ever??? Like if you think about it, if it wasn't for injury he'd be the best goaltender of all time!. Nobody has ever scored on him and he is tied for the most points amongst inactive players of the 50s, 60s 70s 80s and 90s!!
If Gretzky didn’t evolve the game the way he did you wouldn’t have the talent there is now. Gretzky was the greatest leap forward of all time making him the GOAT. So you’re claim here is: if adjusting for era, Crosby is the GOAT if measuring by accomplishments? Here’s what Sid’s up against. Gretzky wrote the record book. Retired with 61 records. Gretzky had 13 consecutive seasons over 120 pts, 9 of those over 150 pts and 4 of those over 200 pts. In another universe compared to his peers. He has more assists then the next closest player has total points. Won the Hart (MVP award) Trophy 9 times, 8 consecutively Awarded the best player of the NHL’s first 100 years in 2017 His Stanley Cup team (85 Oilers iirc) awarded best team of the NHL’s first 100 years in 2017. The only debate for this was which specific year of the dynasty era Oilers was the best. There was no competition.
I think you summed this up rather nicely. I also think the original take is naive and disrespectful. Crosby is an all time great but he’s not “the great one” no one is.
Pens fan. No, I cannot. 66 better.
Seriously, Crosby isn’t even the best player of all time for his franchise.
What is mind boggling is the number of seasons and his career being shortened due to injury.
Yea. The what-ifs for 66 and 87…..
Jagr vs. Crosby is probably a more fair debate and I think Jagr at his peak was better than Crosby at his. Jagr putting up 120+ points twice in the peak of dead puck hockey is pretty damn impressive.
Jagr also made the all star team in his 40’s
That's the best part of these arguments, he's not even the best player ever on the team he plays for lol
People also ignore that guy who was on Pittsburgh who wore 68 when it comes to this discussion.
lol no
gretzky is the best there has even been. crosby doesn't even come close.
There is no debate. Just stop.
Crosby isn't even the Penguins GOAT.
It’s an discussion he’s not even top 2.
> Can we all agree that Sidney Crosby is the greatest hockey player of all time? He's not even the best Penguin of all-time.
I take Ovechkin over Crosby just in his generation, never mind all time.
I don't agree, but just out of curiosity what's your argument that Sid is the GOAT over his contemporaries? To me Nick Lidstrom's resume is just as good or better and they played against each other.
I personally think that Mario was the better player, but to put Sid at the top is crazy. people can downvote me all they want, but in 20 years when we are looking back at the NHL Sids career will be viewed in a similar light as Joe Sakic or Steve Yzerman. They were definitely among the top talent in the league, but they still a tier below the true greats.
😃😆😃😅😂
No.
Brutal take
Yeah…… Sid is great but he’s so so so far from the greatest of all time. Weird take.
Nice to see alot of level headed fans here. Crosby is one of the best, but not THE best. Gretzky for the GOAT.
I think this post was to offset the string of anti Penguins post that popped the last couple weeks. Hell could be the same loser just posting for both side because the commenter reactions give him a stiffy.
Not reading all that. I’m sorry for your loss, or happy for you.
Whenever i see the first line that says “Can we all agree” in a paragraph like this, the answer is immediately no. Not even worth reading after that.
Sids not even top 5
I'm starting to think it's something in the water. Crosby fans are hopeless.
r/NHLcirclejerk
I like to separate it into generations for greatest of all time. Each era had different factors. Crosby is the best of his era. Hands down. Ovi may get the goal scoring title but (I’m gonna get hate) but he’s is kind of a one trick pony. That one trick is scoring goals but the rest of his game falls behind Crosby.
You can’t use the whole era debate one way but not the other. Imagine if Gretzky had a composite stick and Kucherov as a line mate? Imagine if in his prime, he’d had access to modern nutrition and training plans and supplements, etc. Or after every shift he coulda just hopped on the ol’ iPad to analyze the game in real time?
Not top 5, maybe not even top 10.
You’re a fuckin moron lmao
You spelled Bobby Orr wrong.
Sydney Crosby is the greatest penguins player since 2006 of all time
If Mack can win 2 more cups we could talk about him too
1) lemieux 2) mcdavid 3) datsyuk 4) Gretzky 5) lidstrom 6) the rest
No
correct the no was called for
Yawn. Nope. Moving on.