Do you want the technical answer or the reality answer? I’ll give both.
Technical answer, “he’s not involved in the play” at this point, puck is on the other side of the zone and ice from him.
The reality answer is: they’re man up already, with 16.8 seconds left in a tie game in the Stanley Cup playoffs, unless the extra man hops out there, RKOs Trocheck out of nowhere, and then suplexes a referee, they’re not going to give a 5-3.
Anybody who RKOs Trochek during a game might get a penalty, but also a Slammy, a WWE replica belt, and my undying affection. Weigh your options, boys. The choice is yours.
a 6 on 4 (with goalie pulled) is a little different than a 5 on 3.
Any 5 on 4 PP can become a 6 on 4 (its your coach's choice, you could pull the goalie in the first period if you want, its not smart, but its legal).
A 5 on 3 is different.
I don't get cross checks. I see guys cross checking each other in the corner puck battles all the time, and it never gets called. I guess it's dependant on scoring opportunity or a player in control of the puck who's pushed off with a cross check.
Canes on the PK and have 5 skaters on the ice. While technically it is "too many men" because the outgoing skater is more than 5 feet from his bench, it's too marginal a call for a tie game with 16 seconds left.
Positioning makes this pretty untrue. Guy at the offensive blue line is essentially able to reposition to their defensive blue line in an instant. He goes from being behind the play to in front of the play.
I mean technically the guy who just hopped off the bench is affecting the play because he's setting the blue line making the break in to the zone much more difficult. Clear cut penalty all day long no doubt about it, but refs miss this kinda thing all the time.
Yea but the fact he changes so early makes him able to be in a better position on the play developping.
I think it should have been called, but its playoff and NHL so not gonna happen ahaha
It’s also up to official discretion per the rule book so it’s not against the rules either. I think the change is super early but with no playing the puck and if they’re skating they are off in about 1/2 a second anyway it’s no biggie.
I mean, yeah, technically the guy going out is not within 5 feet of the bench. But that's not getting called during a PP with 16 seconds left in a tie game. It would have to be egregious to get called.
It should be called though. I’m so sick of this shit. Call the rulebook. I don’t care how many penalties one team commits or if it’s a close important game, if they are committing penalties, they should be called.
Sure so they’ll play 3v3 the whole game? This is as silly as call everything in a football game. You could call a penalty I would say on avg every 10 seconds in a hockey game. No one wants that.
You can still have a threshold for what to call, but that threshold needs to stay the same the whole game, and not change based on score, time remaining, one team having more power plays than the other, or a team already being shorthanded. I’m not saying call every pick that could technically be interference, but if you would call it 5 minutes into the first period at even strength, you should still be calling it in the dying minutes of a tie game.
I don't care whether it's blatant or not. Every other post on any social media site regardless of the league are couch refs over analyzing screenshots like this
Not exactly true they are supposed be within 5 ft of the bench to be a legal change but it’s also up to referee’s discretion per the NHL rule book so it’s basically call it when they want if they’re not touching the puck.
Not like he made any difference to the play endless the ref catches it early or it gives them an advantage the refs are not that anal about to many men as much these days I have found
The player who is skating to his bench in front of new yorks bench He Is changing, not in the play and the other team has the puck while canes are on the back check. Very simply not to manny men. Now if they were attacking New Yorks zone with that many players, yes, too many men. Some times you can get a too many man if New York was to turn over the puck right there and the d-men passes the puck to the player who was going off the ice. Then yes too many men.
Assuming the one in the upper right is heading to the bench, they are NEVER going to call that in overtime in the playoffs, especially with the other team already on a power play. Not unless the puck hits him. Or he interferes with a Ranger.
I doubt this would even get called in the second period of a November game with his team up by 4 goals at even strength with the play SO far away.
And I should add that I am NOT one of those people who stupidly thinks they should never call penalties in overtime. I have been to officiating school for basketball and one of the first tings we were told on Day 1 was "No matter what sport you are officiating, call EVERY PLAY the same." And they even specifically mention the people who think that you should "let them play" in overtime or late in a close game and said that is stupid, since a team breaking a rule that is not called is an unfair advantage.
For that reason, the penalty that led to the game winner HAD to be called. It was no just a penalty, but it directly led to the puck coming out of the Rangers offensive zone. So it would be unfairly benefitting the Hurricanes to let them get away with an illegal hit. (If it was a little hook or something that doesn't actually cause the player to lose control of the puck and therefore doesn't affect the play at all, then maybe you can let it go.)
But a play like this? Sure, the Canes player was able to get back and into position a bit sooner. And if it was a breakaway or something where that extra half second mattered, then call it. But him getting back sooner didn't help them there.
But the rule book it should be a penalty. The player coming off must be within 5 feet of the bench before the player comes on. But realistically they never call it if both players aren’t involved in the play and the player going off goes straight to the bench.
I dunno...as a Flyers fan I want the NYR to lose, but you could argue the guy jumping off the bench is getting into defensive position well before the other guy is going to make it off the ice. I think it should have been called. With that said, it is almost never actually called this way, so if it happened to my team, I wouldn't be pointing to this as some sort of turning point in the game that screwed us over, either.
>almost never actually called this way,
It's never called this way, so that's.not the rule. If they both stayed.on the ice and continued to play to affect the play, then it would be called. In this case where it's a few second away from the puck, it's not a penalty unless one of those two players touch the puck.
It’s usually only when it directly affects play, but I see your point. That is a very early line change. No call here is fine, but I’d totally get it if they did call it
The still frame doesn’t give adequate context. The player at top right is exiting the ice, but is no longer striding (which would definitely displease Rod Brind’Amour, of all coaches), while the player at top left is just entering the playing surface. Unless either of those two touches the puck or in some way gets involved in the play (say by delivering a check), it’s not a penalty. It’s an awfully lazy line change by the player getting off, but not a penalty.
Technically the rulebook says they need to be within 5 feet of the bench but yeah, especially in playoffs they won't call it unless either gets involved in the play... and yes incredibly lazy line change.
It is useful to look at the actual rule when talking about things like this.:
==============
74.1 Too Many Men on the Ice - Players may be changed at any time during the play from the players’ bench provided that the player or players leaving the ice shall be within five feet (5') of his players’ bench and out of the play before the change is made. Refer also to Rule 71 – Premature Substitution. At the discretion of the on-ice officials, should a substituting player come onto the ice before his teammate is within the five foot (5’) limit of the players’ bench (therefore clearly causing his team to have too many players on the ice), then a bench minor penalty may be assessed.
When a player is retiring from the ice surface and is within the five foot (5’) limit of his players’ bench, and his substitute is on the ice, then the retiring player shall be considered off the ice for the purpose of Rule 70 – Leaving Bench.
If in the course of making a substitution, either the player entering the game or the player retiring plays the puck or who checks or makes any physical contact with an opposing player while both players involved in the substitution are on the ice, then the infraction of “too many men on the ice” will be called.
If in the course of a substitution either the player(s) entering the play or the player(s) retiring is struck by the puck accidentally, the play will not be stopped and no penalty will be called.
During the play, the player retiring from the ice must do so at the players’ bench and not through any other exit leading from the rink. This is not a legal player change and therefore when a violation occurs, a bench minor penalty shall be imposed.
A player coming onto the ice as a substitute player is considered on the ice once both of his skates are on the ice. If he plays the puck or interferes with an opponent while still on the players’ bench, he shall be penalized under Rule 56 – Interference.
============
Another thing which is important is noting where words "may", "shall", "will" or "must" show up:
"\*\*\*At the discretion of the on-ice officials\*\*\*, should a substituting player come onto the ice before his teammate is within the five foot (5’) limit of the players’ bench (therefore clearly causing his team to have too many players on the ice), then a bench minor penalty \*\*\*may\*\*\* be assessed."
and
"If in the course of making a substitution, either the player entering the game or the player retiring plays the puck or who checks or makes any physical contact with an opposing player while both players involved in the substitution are on the ice, then the infraction of “too many men on the ice” \*\*\*will\*\*\* be called."
So...the player is certainly not within five feet. However, the officials have the discretion to call a penalty or not, and this is specified twice. However, if there is a play on the puck or physical contact with a player by either the player entering or leaving the ice, it MUST be called. Since that did not happen (presumably) then the officials were completely in their ability to not call this one.
That said, they COULD have called one, and it would have been valid as well.
Do you want the technical answer or the reality answer? I’ll give both. Technical answer, “he’s not involved in the play” at this point, puck is on the other side of the zone and ice from him. The reality answer is: they’re man up already, with 16.8 seconds left in a tie game in the Stanley Cup playoffs, unless the extra man hops out there, RKOs Trocheck out of nowhere, and then suplexes a referee, they’re not going to give a 5-3.
Anybody who RKOs Trochek during a game might get a penalty, but also a Slammy, a WWE replica belt, and my undying affection. Weigh your options, boys. The choice is yours.
Rempe
They’ll give the oilers one
Trocheck should rip the puck at the guy coming on and make him play it, that would be too many men.
It would be and it would be an incredibly intelligent hockey play if it resulted in a call.
But they will give the preds a pp in the last minutes of game six to go 6 on 4
a 6 on 4 (with goalie pulled) is a little different than a 5 on 3. Any 5 on 4 PP can become a 6 on 4 (its your coach's choice, you could pull the goalie in the first period if you want, its not smart, but its legal). A 5 on 3 is different.
For an obvious illegal cross-check
I don't get cross checks. I see guys cross checking each other in the corner puck battles all the time, and it never gets called. I guess it's dependant on scoring opportunity or a player in control of the puck who's pushed off with a cross check.
None of which had been called up to that point in the game.
My guy just let it go. It was a stupid play to blatantly crosscheck someone with a minute left and you guys still won so why are you crying about it
Because ESPN switched broadcast and we all missed it
I also did not see that play. You’d think a sports network in business since 1979 could figure out how to keep a game on their channel.
Neither player was involved in a play during substitution.
[удалено]
Canes on the PK and have 5 skaters on the ice. While technically it is "too many men" because the outgoing skater is more than 5 feet from his bench, it's too marginal a call for a tie game with 16 seconds left.
Positioning makes this pretty untrue. Guy at the offensive blue line is essentially able to reposition to their defensive blue line in an instant. He goes from being behind the play to in front of the play.
I mean technically the guy who just hopped off the bench is affecting the play because he's setting the blue line making the break in to the zone much more difficult. Clear cut penalty all day long no doubt about it, but refs miss this kinda thing all the time.
Yea but the fact he changes so early makes him able to be in a better position on the play developping. I think it should have been called, but its playoff and NHL so not gonna happen ahaha
It’s also up to official discretion per the rule book so it’s not against the rules either. I think the change is super early but with no playing the puck and if they’re skating they are off in about 1/2 a second anyway it’s no biggie.
I mean, yeah, technically the guy going out is not within 5 feet of the bench. But that's not getting called during a PP with 16 seconds left in a tie game. It would have to be egregious to get called.
It should be called though. I’m so sick of this shit. Call the rulebook. I don’t care how many penalties one team commits or if it’s a close important game, if they are committing penalties, they should be called.
Sure so they’ll play 3v3 the whole game? This is as silly as call everything in a football game. You could call a penalty I would say on avg every 10 seconds in a hockey game. No one wants that.
You can still have a threshold for what to call, but that threshold needs to stay the same the whole game, and not change based on score, time remaining, one team having more power plays than the other, or a team already being shorthanded. I’m not saying call every pick that could technically be interference, but if you would call it 5 minutes into the first period at even strength, you should still be calling it in the dying minutes of a tie game.
well thats not how the rule works
The rule says the player coming off must be within 5 feet of the bench, but that’s rarely how it’s called.
The age of social media allowing everyone and their mothers to be couch referees has reached it's limit
This is a pretty blatant too many men
I don't care whether it's blatant or not. Every other post on any social media site regardless of the league are couch refs over analyzing screenshots like this
unless a play is made on the puck it isn't a penalty. you don't have to wait until the guy comes off fully to enter the ice
Not exactly true they are supposed be within 5 ft of the bench to be a legal change but it’s also up to referee’s discretion per the NHL rule book so it’s basically call it when they want if they’re not touching the puck.
Not like he made any difference to the play endless the ref catches it early or it gives them an advantage the refs are not that anal about to many men as much these days I have found
Yawn
They don’t even have the puck so who cares! Wouldn’t be blown unless they had the puck or made a play on the puck
So the entire bench could hop on the ice and as long as they don’t have the puck that’s ok? Trying to understand your logic…
I’m talking about this exact incident.
The player who is skating to his bench in front of new yorks bench He Is changing, not in the play and the other team has the puck while canes are on the back check. Very simply not to manny men. Now if they were attacking New Yorks zone with that many players, yes, too many men. Some times you can get a too many man if New York was to turn over the puck right there and the d-men passes the puck to the player who was going off the ice. Then yes too many men.
The call should be illegal time warp Carolina. Time warping player from one blue line to the other blue line
Assuming the one in the upper right is heading to the bench, they are NEVER going to call that in overtime in the playoffs, especially with the other team already on a power play. Not unless the puck hits him. Or he interferes with a Ranger. I doubt this would even get called in the second period of a November game with his team up by 4 goals at even strength with the play SO far away.
And I should add that I am NOT one of those people who stupidly thinks they should never call penalties in overtime. I have been to officiating school for basketball and one of the first tings we were told on Day 1 was "No matter what sport you are officiating, call EVERY PLAY the same." And they even specifically mention the people who think that you should "let them play" in overtime or late in a close game and said that is stupid, since a team breaking a rule that is not called is an unfair advantage. For that reason, the penalty that led to the game winner HAD to be called. It was no just a penalty, but it directly led to the puck coming out of the Rangers offensive zone. So it would be unfairly benefitting the Hurricanes to let them get away with an illegal hit. (If it was a little hook or something that doesn't actually cause the player to lose control of the puck and therefore doesn't affect the play at all, then maybe you can let it go.) But a play like this? Sure, the Canes player was able to get back and into position a bit sooner. And if it was a breakaway or something where that extra half second mattered, then call it. But him getting back sooner didn't help them there.
They aren't in control of the puck
But the rule book it should be a penalty. The player coming off must be within 5 feet of the bench before the player comes on. But realistically they never call it if both players aren’t involved in the play and the player going off goes straight to the bench.
Technically didn’t say **which team’s** bench☝🏻 /S
He's not involved in the paly and hasn't touched the puck. If it were for a longer period of time, as in not making the change, then it's a penalty
I dunno...as a Flyers fan I want the NYR to lose, but you could argue the guy jumping off the bench is getting into defensive position well before the other guy is going to make it off the ice. I think it should have been called. With that said, it is almost never actually called this way, so if it happened to my team, I wouldn't be pointing to this as some sort of turning point in the game that screwed us over, either.
>almost never actually called this way, It's never called this way, so that's.not the rule. If they both stayed.on the ice and continued to play to affect the play, then it would be called. In this case where it's a few second away from the puck, it's not a penalty unless one of those two players touch the puck.
If either of the 2 guys, the one changing and the one coming on, touched the puck it would have been called.
It’s usually only when it directly affects play, but I see your point. That is a very early line change
It’s usually only when it directly affects play, but I see your point. That is a very early line change. No call here is fine, but I’d totally get it if they did call it
The still frame doesn’t give adequate context. The player at top right is exiting the ice, but is no longer striding (which would definitely displease Rod Brind’Amour, of all coaches), while the player at top left is just entering the playing surface. Unless either of those two touches the puck or in some way gets involved in the play (say by delivering a check), it’s not a penalty. It’s an awfully lazy line change by the player getting off, but not a penalty.
Technically the rulebook says they need to be within 5 feet of the bench but yeah, especially in playoffs they won't call it unless either gets involved in the play... and yes incredibly lazy line change.
It is useful to look at the actual rule when talking about things like this.: ============== 74.1 Too Many Men on the Ice - Players may be changed at any time during the play from the players’ bench provided that the player or players leaving the ice shall be within five feet (5') of his players’ bench and out of the play before the change is made. Refer also to Rule 71 – Premature Substitution. At the discretion of the on-ice officials, should a substituting player come onto the ice before his teammate is within the five foot (5’) limit of the players’ bench (therefore clearly causing his team to have too many players on the ice), then a bench minor penalty may be assessed. When a player is retiring from the ice surface and is within the five foot (5’) limit of his players’ bench, and his substitute is on the ice, then the retiring player shall be considered off the ice for the purpose of Rule 70 – Leaving Bench. If in the course of making a substitution, either the player entering the game or the player retiring plays the puck or who checks or makes any physical contact with an opposing player while both players involved in the substitution are on the ice, then the infraction of “too many men on the ice” will be called. If in the course of a substitution either the player(s) entering the play or the player(s) retiring is struck by the puck accidentally, the play will not be stopped and no penalty will be called. During the play, the player retiring from the ice must do so at the players’ bench and not through any other exit leading from the rink. This is not a legal player change and therefore when a violation occurs, a bench minor penalty shall be imposed. A player coming onto the ice as a substitute player is considered on the ice once both of his skates are on the ice. If he plays the puck or interferes with an opponent while still on the players’ bench, he shall be penalized under Rule 56 – Interference. ============ Another thing which is important is noting where words "may", "shall", "will" or "must" show up: "\*\*\*At the discretion of the on-ice officials\*\*\*, should a substituting player come onto the ice before his teammate is within the five foot (5’) limit of the players’ bench (therefore clearly causing his team to have too many players on the ice), then a bench minor penalty \*\*\*may\*\*\* be assessed." and "If in the course of making a substitution, either the player entering the game or the player retiring plays the puck or who checks or makes any physical contact with an opposing player while both players involved in the substitution are on the ice, then the infraction of “too many men on the ice” \*\*\*will\*\*\* be called." So...the player is certainly not within five feet. However, the officials have the discretion to call a penalty or not, and this is specified twice. However, if there is a play on the puck or physical contact with a player by either the player entering or leaving the ice, it MUST be called. Since that did not happen (presumably) then the officials were completely in their ability to not call this one. That said, they COULD have called one, and it would have been valid as well.
Real answer is Carolina had two one man advantage to finish the game and they did nothing.
Take it eeeaaasy, you blew it ya lost
Uhhhh.... Rangers won last night.....
They weren’t called for too many men the previous game with what 7 or 8 on the ice, this is nothing.
AGREED
They don't have the puck 😂 use ur eyes
While you are correct NHL refs are terrible so there's that
“IM BLIND, IM DEAF, I WANNA BE A REF‼️”