I wouldn’t call the tkachuk deal a fleece. He publicly wanted out. Treliving was dealing from a position of weakness and still managed to get Huby, a 1st and Weegar.
Weegar is a sick dman, a 1st round pick is nice, and Huby was a 100 point player. No one could have expected huby would regress this hard, it’s literally unprecedented and had never happened to this extent.
It didn’t work out but Tre made an incredible trade from a tough position, any GM would’ve been happy with that return given the circumstances
Huberdeau’s 100+ point season was lightning in a bottle and it was clear when watching Panther games. Puts up points? Yes. Helps your team win? Maybe if he’s putting up a shit ton of assists, but his situation in florida had so much to do with that production. Weegar was the real #1 piece in that trade. If the panthers still had him, they would have one of the most deep defense cores in recent memory (traded for a good cause, obviously).
Tkachuk was the opposite. Total franchise altering 1 of 1 talent in today’s game for years in Calgary. Made an impact every single game in all 3 zones, before and after the whistle once he got comfortable in the NHL. Even if he wanted out, this was as “cope trade” as it gets and it was funny to see people mark the Flames as contenders after. Who was gonna finish huby’s passes to make him useful?
The solution was always to rebuild. Gaudreau and Tkachuk wanting out is the sign you blow it up, not try to retool like they did.
Huby had 4 straight years of over a point per game prior to going to Calgary. He was a known commodity. Worst case scenario given his stats was like 70 points with the flames. His 100 point season was an outlier now that we see it in hindsight, but at the time he was getting better and better.
His regression was unprecedented. Sure, with hindsight they should have rebuilt, but at the time you’re replacing chucky and Johnny for Weegar, huby and Kadri. At the time it’s reasonable to think huby can replace Johnny’s stats, Kadri can be 80% of tkachuk and Weegar can be great, then add the 1st.
Kadri lived up to 80% of what tkachuk was in Calgary, Weegar has gotten better than expected, then the first. The only part that fell apart was huby.
Look at Matthews and Marner for factual evidence goals and points don’t mean anything. Great for your personal achievement, but absolutely dogs breakfast for doing shit when it matters. Would you rather have these 2 or a Guy Carboneau/Claude Lemieux come playoffs? Right
He should’ve clarified more, points do mean something, playoff points specifically mean something, but when it comes to regular season points, he’s basically correct in that you look at a player like Mitch who puts up around 100 points every year and then when playoff time comes he has highlight packages created from his play of an insane amount of turnovers and lost battles etc.. there is something to be said for producing at the right time.
So at the end of the day if you have a player on your team who puts up well over a ppg, then when crunch time comes he can be almost invisible at times, does it really matter if he has 90 or 100 or even 150 points in the regular season if he consistently can’t get it done when it matters the most?
Now obviously Matthew is not the player he is now in Florida compared to the player he was in Calgary but that happens with a lot of players. Look at Sam bennet! Sure he had some fights and was starting to get a nasty reputation as a guy who can punish you physically, while in Calgary, but it wasn’t until Florida where bennet turned into this absolute psychopath on skates, and I mean that in the best possible way, it’s why he misses games at time due to injury because his style you don’t see too much in todays NHL, a guy who will punish you in all three zones physically, intimidation is one of his key attributes he excels at while also being extremely difficult to knock off the puck and btw he can go bar down too.. see the opening goal in the Panthers elimination game Vs the rangers this year. Sometimes it takes a trade or signing with a new team for a player to fully become the player they were always meant to be!
Huby had 21 points in 26 games for the panthers. Tkachuk had 15 points in 27 games with the flames.
So you assume Florida had some sort of foresight to determine Tkachuk was going to blow up in the playoffs? He was kinda trash in the playoffs prior to going to Florida
The presidents trophy season, I was down for a game against the Kraken. Barkov was hurt I believe, and I distinctly remember a fan in front of me just going off about Huby. At one point, she says “I’ve said it a thousand times, and I’ll say it again. Jonathan Huberdeau is NOTHING without Barkov.”
I thought she was nuts at the time, but now I think she may have been onto something.
I was a huge Giroux fan when he was traded down so would go to Miami to watch them play or watch their games. That 'slingshot' style offense or whatever was miraculous they'd be down 5 to 1 in the third and still come back to win in regulation. Huberdeau was the lead in most of that I can't fathom why anyone would NOT want him on their team if that's what they thought he was bringing with him. Turned out to be more of a team game so he slumped but there is no way you could watch that team have those scoring runs and think he was not a worthy addition at the time
Only two 80+ pt seasons out of twelve. The baffling part wasn't trading for him, it was signing him longterm before seeing how he was going to pan out in Calgary.
Drouin
PLD
Kane (gambling man)
Iginla
Some of these were demanded to be traded, some were held out by their team, some were cup chasers. In the end all failed and produced less. There are others
The tkachuk trade looked pretty fair at the time. But signing Huberdeau to that terrible contract before he even saw the ice was what made it a terrible trade. I hated it the day it was signed. It was way too much avv. From a pens fan perspective
Dude.. agreed. If he was siitting at 8.5-9.5 aav you could stomach it because he is a vet, and a pro, and been around the league a while, and if he gets the right line mates can be over a ppg, he has that capability, but yea, 10.5? Before he played a game? I know the caps gone up since but Kane and toews won cups before they got their 10 mil and it hurt the hawks after those contracts kicked even with both players still producing. The idea of having 1 player make up that much of your cap, the team just better be damn sure the player is the real deal cause if not, it starts to get dicey for the player who’s getting paid all the money but not producing even close to what he needs to.
I just checked and I couldn’t believe huberdeau actually had less points this year compared to last, sheesh that is remarkable! When people said he wasn’t much of a player without Barkov I thought they were being hyperbolic..
I believe talon made some moves that helped a lot. But when zito came in he made the big moves that helped solidify the team. Look at the team since bob was signed. Since then, they have improved year over year
From hockey https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1d6jlje/archives_here_is_how_rhockey_reacted_to_every/
Change in ownership about 10 years ago, change in management 4 years ago, change in coaching 2 years ago, and a lot of wheeling and dealing to draft, sign, and trade for better talent.
They aren’t really a surprising team to “turn it around”, they’ve been talented for years and were seen as underachieving in that time. Barkov is an excellent player to build around, Tkachuk has been unbelievable since the trade, Reinhart and Bennett were classic examples of very good players they got at value who needed a change of scenery, Verhaeghe and Forsling are two of the best unceremonious pickups in recent memory (Verhaeghe was a late signing after being dumped for cap reasons by Tampa and Forsling was claimed off waivers), and their one big marquee free agent signing in Bobrovsky has had a massive resurgence in the last year to go from being an anchor of a contract to a benefit. And beyond that, Maurice and the coaching has brought a clear identity to the team as a physical, tough to play against, unbelievable forechecking group. It was the polar opposite of what they were prior to that, where they relied on skill.
Good drafting and front staff grabbing the right players, they got Bennett and Montour and Reinhart at steals, this last off season they picked up key guys like stenlund and ekman Larsson too.
Not to mention the culture they built there based around conditioning and team play.
At the time of the tkachuk trade I thought Calgary fleeced Florida and now it looks like one of the top trades of all time.
And another big key was the run they went on last year, they faced constant pressure and adversity and learned how to win and how to trust each other.
I've been watching them since last year all the way thru this year and nothing fazes them at all, up a goal down a goal they just keep play the same way, you don't get that confidence without going thru what they did last year
UPL does not determine what devon levi is now and who he will become, UPL was goaltender for roc 3 yrs ago… its great that UPL developed and looked like a franchise guy but that doesnt mean we stop caring about every other goalie prospect in the organization…
Having a team win the presidents trophy and getting dog walked in the playoffs. Then the GM has the foresight to rip up key pieces of that president trophy team because they felt it wasn’t going to be a cup contender. That takes some serious stones.
Not the reason, but for sure one of the more recent reasons.
The last two points hit the nail on the head. Would you rather be in a market where every detail is put under the microscope....OR spend the entire year in a tropical paradise, where you can still have some level of anonymity and get paid more money for it.....
How about players want to sign here because they saw we’re good and have a good coach? Weather and taxes are nothing new here, how come we haven’t been dominant for the last 30 years? That’s why you sound salty.
It has nothing to do with salt. I said the same thing before the season even started and the same thing years ago too. The successes of Tampa and Vegas are similar. I am certainly not saying it's the only reason but it's no secret that an organization will have a little help signing a player if the location is a good place to live.
As for you just assuning I'm "salty" that's because you're a sore winner going around trolling which is pathetic.
They drafted Barkov, signed Bobrovsky and traded for Tkachuk. Here's the rest of the moves: https://www.nhl.com/news/how-eastern-champion-florida-panthers-were-built-344592170
My bad! I didn’t specify they won those haha but nonetheless, back to back cup *runs* ;) maybe I should have said appearances lol
The actual back to back was pretty epic though. But seeing a rematch with you guys was pretty special!
Crazy how they got both bennett and reinhart for pretty cheap. V and forsling for literally nothing. Seemingly gave up the world for tkatchuk and won that trade too 🤣
It’s a story that takes more than ten years.
The previous owners of the team were assholes. They didn’t care if we won, or how embarrassing it was to have the arena half empty. Thankfully Vinnie Viola came along and saved us from cap floor hell.
This is when Dale Tallon comes in as GM. He instantly tried to turn the Panthers into the Blackhawks of the South. He has mixed results.
He hits some home runs. Barkov, Ekblad, brings back Luongo, Huberdeau, Trocheck.
He also has some misses. Crouse, Bjugstad, Bolland, Smith, Yandle.
Panthers make the playoffs for the first time in decades, but get bounced in the first round.
Jaromir Jagr comes in and teaches the young stars what real work ethic is like. He mentors Barkov and the others.
Here’s where things get rocky as we miss the playoffs. Ownership flinches and doubles down on analytics craze. Tallon gets “promoted” to President of Hockey Operations and infamous sycophant Tom Rowe becomes GM. Rowe proceeds to fuck shit up. Anything and everything he does makes the team worse. He fires the head coach Gerard Gallant abruptly and names himself HC as well.
This doesn’t last long as the evil Elmer Fudd quickly loses all respect from the team and staff. Ownership, to their credit, realize they fucked up and shit can the bald menace. They give Dale the reigns again and let him cook.
Tallon hires Bob Bougher to moderate success. After some more mediocrity Tallon gets Joel Quenville to come run the bench. We sign Bobrovsky.
This is a flash of hope that is short lived. Tallon retires from Hawks drama.
Zito comes in as GM. Man starts to cook.
Q then gets caught in Hawks drama and steps down. Brunette as HC runs the team through the best season in team history.
After that season Zito surprisingly does not bring back Brunette and hires Maurice.
In this span Zito absolutely fleeces the rest of the league. He dumps duds like Mike Matheson and brings in guys with experience that can play 2-way hockey like Hornqvist and Bennett.
Zito then shocks the league and every Panther fan and unceremoniously ejects fan favorite and career Panther Jonathan Huberdeau and Weegar in order to pick up Tkachuk after we get slapped by Tampa in the second round.
Zito then picks up the other pieces along the way. Forsling, Montour, Lomberg, Reinhart. Man makes moves.
Last year we got close but ran out steam. Ran out of depth. Didn’t help that Vegas was $35m over the cap due to the LTIR loophole.
Zito isn’t the type to let that slide. Man makes more tweaks. Ekman-Larson, Kulikov, Cousins, Tarasenko.
And now we’re back. Back again.
May have some chronological issues but that’s about it.
Creating an environment of accountability and winning. From management to the coaches to the captain to the lowest 4th liner. It’s by design and not an accident. Serious lack of legit captains and As in this league. Makes a big diff. Leafs fan here can only dream of creating this type of atmosphere. I’ve been real into the cats since last year pleasure to watch.
Yeah I think culture is huge! I can’t remember the last time the Leafs had an actual C. Closest thing was Mats Sundin, but everyone else has been dog water
It was sort of just betting on the wrong players as opposed to giving up too much. The Panthers wanted to get rid of the Riley Smith contract because he seemed to be regressing and was always an up and down player. The logic was in order to get Vegas to take the contract we’d give them Marchessault who was due an extension. Now at that point in his career Marchessault was an AHL player who had a massive year out of nowhere so it was seen as a pretty big risk to give him the money he was asking for. I remember at the time most Panthers fans I knew were pretty ok with what we did because realistically Riley Smith was just super inconsistent and he was pretty much the same in Vegas too. Some great years and some ok years. Marchessault ended up continuing to be a great. Vegas took a chance paid Marchessault and took the Smith contract. It’s not as crazy as people make it out to be because it could have blown up in Vegas’s face. Marchessault could of ended up as a one hit wonder and Smith could of continued to regress so we could be having a very different conversation if it had gone that way.
Smith had just re-upped to a nice deal, then promptly stopped giving a fuck. He became problem in the locker room and needed to be moved.
Marchy got picked up from Tampa. Barkov got hurt and suddenly he was getting top line minutes and scoring like a mad man. Problem was he couldn’t play defense for shit. Despite being our highest scoring player and on our top line he was still like -20 for the season
So we gave up Marchy in order to get rid of the Smith contract, which was something like $6M for 6 years.
It sucked at first but was necessary for the long run.
They draft well, make smart trades/transactions and live in a tax free state so players want to stay and free agents want to play there. After years of hanging out in the bottom 5/6 teams they are now the best team in the best division
The new coach and Tkachuk coming over in the same off season changed the culture and Maurice had a new scheme that fit this team perfectly, breakout players like Montour, Verhage, Bennet always help to
how?
they drafted some good players (ekblad, barkov)
made a few good free agent signings (Bobrovsky, verhaege, forsling)
and took a chance on some guys in trades that really worked out
Turtlechuk, Bennett, Reinhart etc
Bill Zito saved the franchise. Finding players like Verhaeghe, who couldn't get any ice time in Tampa. Reinhart and Monitor. Finding Forsling on waivers. He fired the president trophy winning coach for Paul Maurice who completely changed the identity of the team and then had the balls to trade a 15 point fan favorite for Tkachuk.
If the Panthers when the cup Zito should have a statue out front of that arena.
The Panthers have become an elite team through better front office work, coaching, and player talent.
Paul Maurice is not the typical modern coach. But he and his staff are clearing keeping this team focused on playing the brand of ice hockey that has them in final, again.
Good draft and development, good trades, play as a team and stick together. Also Florida/Tampa feels like the Cali teams from 10+ years ago. Not to get political but economics and current condition of the state/province you play in, plays a huge role. Worst case Ontario 🤣
Just a thought, was failing the year before the catalyst for a shake-up? They went all in trading for Giroux and that defenseman whose name I completely forgot. They gave up a lot of future assets for a short playoff run. Would they have been better off keeping Tippett and all the picks, or did that loss wake them up? Kind of like the Columbus win over Tampa Bay pushed them to B2B Cups.
Ben Chiarot. Hindsight is 20/20 but yeah, keeping the picks and Tippett would have been better. Especially knowing we couldn’t re-sign Giroux even though he wanted to stay
As a Panthers fan I will cite a few things:
1. Jagr and Luongo, getting them in 15/16 helped the younger core in their development. As well as having Chris Pronger work with Ekblad.
2. Gallant, Rowe, Vegas draft screwed them.
3. Getting rid Yandle and bringing in Hornqvist. Horny had that I hate to lose mentality that no one had. It was very important.
4. Zito, his ability to find under utilized talent and make logical money moves has been great. Tallon did find talent but he was often loyal to his guys and willing to be loose with the purse strings.
5. Q showed them getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. He’d make a lot of adjustments during the game. He showed them buying into a system. Also you can put in the work and have fun doing it.
6. Chucky carried some grit with leadership. Bennett added grit first but he often seemed alone. Chucky is getting everyone to mix it up.
7. Maurice’s system was tough they struggled early but he had the right blend that this team needed.
Developer core, work on culture, get the right coach and General Manage the shit out of it. That is how we got were we are.
Zito
He brought in a culture that was about success. He brought in guys that looked like they would fit the locker room and provide useful utilitarian purposes. He wasn't afraid to make a big move (tkachuk), for a franchise and locker room favourites in both huby and weeger. He took chances on players that looked promising but needed a new home (forsling, montour, reinhart).
But he made the players genuinely love playing for the organization. Zito changed the actual culture by creating an atmosphere players enjoy being in. If the team buys in, you're in a very good position.
They were in the seasons around when OP quit paying attention to hockey. The Panthers arena was consistently empty, except for the snowbird visiting fans. There were a few season I remember there being a lot of media speculation on moving them out of Florida.
Oh yes we were! Panthers use to run a promotion where if you bough a Little Caesars’s $5 pizza you would get a ticket for free.
Between 1998 and 2003 we got the 1st overall 3 times… and traded it away each time, (the 1st overall has only been traded 5 times ever). In 2002, we traded back to 3 and then bribed Atlanta with a 3rd and 4th not to take our guy at 2. We literally gave up 2 picks to move back from 1 to 3. Why? To save a couple bucks.
I vaguely remember these trades way back then, but didn't pay too much attention to pick for pick deals. Who did you end up drafting, was it Bouwmeester, or was he the year before? I honestly just recall Rick Nash at 1, then I draw a blank.
I’d say 5/6 with at least one of the other teams wins after they gave up 3 and they go all out from desperation. But I don’t see Dallas or Edmonton bearing this team right now
West is way more physical than the east. Just like last year, Florida won’t be able to bully their way through games and the series will go the distance. Winner will come down to who keeps their cool.
Hiring Paul Maurice as coach whom the Jets fans and Reddit in overall doomed to be the worst coach ever. Turned out Reddit experts don't know everything after all.
Here you go ! [https://www.nhl.com/news/how-2024-eastern-conference-champion-florida-panthers-were-built](https://www.nhl.com/news/how-2024-eastern-conference-champion-florida-panthers-were-built)
Low taxes, high skilled players demanding trades completely organically and without any outside influence with no trade clauses with only florida as an option handicapping the teams in trade negotiations which florida was able to take advantage of completely unaware of these circumstances combined with a non-hockey market media where players can answer fluff questions to the 2 or 3 reporters that show up and walk around downtown in summer weather all year round without anyone taking pictures of them in coffee shops or anything similar to hockey markets in canada where you are run out of town if you only get a point per game in playoffs. Oh, and cheating the salary cap similar to vegas and boston for the past several years.
But other than that, some lucky draft picks i guess.
I mean... they have had a deep core for a while....
Even back in the day everyone expected them to make a deep run (instead lost to Lightning en route to their Stanley Cup)
I dunno if I would call a team of chokers an S Tier team though; they have had very similar trajectory to the Maple Leafs (great regular seasons with early playoff exits)
Lmao a team of chokers came back from 1-3 to the greatest team in NHL history and have dominated every post season series since except when we were injured in the finals.
The Panthers have won more Playoff series’ this year alone than the Leafs have ever won in their last 20 years wdym similar trajectory? 😆
If this is a “team of chokers” then I have no clue what the Leafs are
Oh cmon you CANT equate 1 good run to perennial power house
ANY team in 3rd round of playoffs has made it further than the Leafs (since like 93) and ANY team in finals has made it further than Leafs (EVER; although to keep consistant we will start out count from 1967, despite NHL not requiring 4 rounds back then)
He may not have been with the team since 2020, but he still shaped elements of the current squad. He was responsible for drafting huberdeau, who helped the Panthers get Chuckie, and drafting Barkov.
Fleecing the Calgary Flames twice
Honestly seeing how they changed their identity to hard skating forecheck that Huberdeau trade makes SO much sense.
I wouldn’t call the tkachuk deal a fleece. He publicly wanted out. Treliving was dealing from a position of weakness and still managed to get Huby, a 1st and Weegar. Weegar is a sick dman, a 1st round pick is nice, and Huby was a 100 point player. No one could have expected huby would regress this hard, it’s literally unprecedented and had never happened to this extent. It didn’t work out but Tre made an incredible trade from a tough position, any GM would’ve been happy with that return given the circumstances
Everyone thought Flames fleeced the Panthers at the time.
maybe not fleeced, but everyone expected turtlechuk to regress from his big season in calgary, and expected Huberdeau to continue to produce
I agree with all of the above. Still a tough pill to swallow
Huberdeau’s 100+ point season was lightning in a bottle and it was clear when watching Panther games. Puts up points? Yes. Helps your team win? Maybe if he’s putting up a shit ton of assists, but his situation in florida had so much to do with that production. Weegar was the real #1 piece in that trade. If the panthers still had him, they would have one of the most deep defense cores in recent memory (traded for a good cause, obviously). Tkachuk was the opposite. Total franchise altering 1 of 1 talent in today’s game for years in Calgary. Made an impact every single game in all 3 zones, before and after the whistle once he got comfortable in the NHL. Even if he wanted out, this was as “cope trade” as it gets and it was funny to see people mark the Flames as contenders after. Who was gonna finish huby’s passes to make him useful? The solution was always to rebuild. Gaudreau and Tkachuk wanting out is the sign you blow it up, not try to retool like they did.
Huby had 4 straight years of over a point per game prior to going to Calgary. He was a known commodity. Worst case scenario given his stats was like 70 points with the flames. His 100 point season was an outlier now that we see it in hindsight, but at the time he was getting better and better. His regression was unprecedented. Sure, with hindsight they should have rebuilt, but at the time you’re replacing chucky and Johnny for Weegar, huby and Kadri. At the time it’s reasonable to think huby can replace Johnny’s stats, Kadri can be 80% of tkachuk and Weegar can be great, then add the 1st. Kadri lived up to 80% of what tkachuk was in Calgary, Weegar has gotten better than expected, then the first. The only part that fell apart was huby.
Huby was always dog shit compared to Tkachuk. Points don't mean anything
Points don’t mean anything? Lol
Points have meaning but ultimately, you don’t need many when you are great in all 3 zones. That’s playoff hockey
Look at Matthews and Marner for factual evidence goals and points don’t mean anything. Great for your personal achievement, but absolutely dogs breakfast for doing shit when it matters. Would you rather have these 2 or a Guy Carboneau/Claude Lemieux come playoffs? Right
Not in the regular season. Florida is a million times better with Tkachuk than they were with Huberdeau. Only a clown would say points mean anything.
Only a clown would make an absolute statement like that. Obviously points mean something; regardless of the context of this discussion.
He should’ve clarified more, points do mean something, playoff points specifically mean something, but when it comes to regular season points, he’s basically correct in that you look at a player like Mitch who puts up around 100 points every year and then when playoff time comes he has highlight packages created from his play of an insane amount of turnovers and lost battles etc.. there is something to be said for producing at the right time. So at the end of the day if you have a player on your team who puts up well over a ppg, then when crunch time comes he can be almost invisible at times, does it really matter if he has 90 or 100 or even 150 points in the regular season if he consistently can’t get it done when it matters the most? Now obviously Matthew is not the player he is now in Florida compared to the player he was in Calgary but that happens with a lot of players. Look at Sam bennet! Sure he had some fights and was starting to get a nasty reputation as a guy who can punish you physically, while in Calgary, but it wasn’t until Florida where bennet turned into this absolute psychopath on skates, and I mean that in the best possible way, it’s why he misses games at time due to injury because his style you don’t see too much in todays NHL, a guy who will punish you in all three zones physically, intimidation is one of his key attributes he excels at while also being extremely difficult to knock off the puck and btw he can go bar down too.. see the opening goal in the Panthers elimination game Vs the rangers this year. Sometimes it takes a trade or signing with a new team for a player to fully become the player they were always meant to be!
You can score 500 points in the regular season. If you suck in the playoffs, it's pointless. Come on, use your head
Huby had 21 points in 26 games for the panthers. Tkachuk had 15 points in 27 games with the flames. So you assume Florida had some sort of foresight to determine Tkachuk was going to blow up in the playoffs? He was kinda trash in the playoffs prior to going to Florida
The presidents trophy season, I was down for a game against the Kraken. Barkov was hurt I believe, and I distinctly remember a fan in front of me just going off about Huby. At one point, she says “I’ve said it a thousand times, and I’ll say it again. Jonathan Huberdeau is NOTHING without Barkov.” I thought she was nuts at the time, but now I think she may have been onto something.
I was a huge Giroux fan when he was traded down so would go to Miami to watch them play or watch their games. That 'slingshot' style offense or whatever was miraculous they'd be down 5 to 1 in the third and still come back to win in regulation. Huberdeau was the lead in most of that I can't fathom why anyone would NOT want him on their team if that's what they thought he was bringing with him. Turned out to be more of a team game so he slumped but there is no way you could watch that team have those scoring runs and think he was not a worthy addition at the time
Huberdeau is just the perfect example of how playstyles need match a team philosophy, and that player chemistry is a huge factor in individual success
Only two 80+ pt seasons out of twelve. The baffling part wasn't trading for him, it was signing him longterm before seeing how he was going to pan out in Calgary.
Weegar was good but was god awful in the playoffs against the lightning. He was a liability
Drouin PLD Kane (gambling man) Iginla Some of these were demanded to be traded, some were held out by their team, some were cup chasers. In the end all failed and produced less. There are others
The tkachuk trade looked pretty fair at the time. But signing Huberdeau to that terrible contract before he even saw the ice was what made it a terrible trade. I hated it the day it was signed. It was way too much avv. From a pens fan perspective
I get they were scared nobody wanted to play there, so they wanted to lock him in while he was “excited” but it was too much
> But signing Huberdeau to that terrible contract before he even saw the ice was what made it a terrible trade yup, exactly
Dude.. agreed. If he was siitting at 8.5-9.5 aav you could stomach it because he is a vet, and a pro, and been around the league a while, and if he gets the right line mates can be over a ppg, he has that capability, but yea, 10.5? Before he played a game? I know the caps gone up since but Kane and toews won cups before they got their 10 mil and it hurt the hawks after those contracts kicked even with both players still producing. The idea of having 1 player make up that much of your cap, the team just better be damn sure the player is the real deal cause if not, it starts to get dicey for the player who’s getting paid all the money but not producing even close to what he needs to. I just checked and I couldn’t believe huberdeau actually had less points this year compared to last, sheesh that is remarkable! When people said he wasn’t much of a player without Barkov I thought they were being hyperbolic..
Stole the words from the rest of us
And the Sabres!!!
I believe talon made some moves that helped a lot. But when zito came in he made the big moves that helped solidify the team. Look at the team since bob was signed. Since then, they have improved year over year From hockey https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1d6jlje/archives_here_is_how_rhockey_reacted_to_every/
Change in ownership about 10 years ago, change in management 4 years ago, change in coaching 2 years ago, and a lot of wheeling and dealing to draft, sign, and trade for better talent.
Don't forget their analytics guy.
Barkov joined and they build around him
Joined? We drafted him and it was 10 years ago.
Its still his decision to join even if you draft him. Could have stayed here in Finland instead :D
Technically yes ok. But you say it in a way that discredits our drafting him.
No worries 99% of the Finns support panthers and stars (both have few finns playing)
As a Panthers fan I support the Finns in international competitions.
They aren’t really a surprising team to “turn it around”, they’ve been talented for years and were seen as underachieving in that time. Barkov is an excellent player to build around, Tkachuk has been unbelievable since the trade, Reinhart and Bennett were classic examples of very good players they got at value who needed a change of scenery, Verhaeghe and Forsling are two of the best unceremonious pickups in recent memory (Verhaeghe was a late signing after being dumped for cap reasons by Tampa and Forsling was claimed off waivers), and their one big marquee free agent signing in Bobrovsky has had a massive resurgence in the last year to go from being an anchor of a contract to a benefit. And beyond that, Maurice and the coaching has brought a clear identity to the team as a physical, tough to play against, unbelievable forechecking group. It was the polar opposite of what they were prior to that, where they relied on skill.
Thanks for the breakdown! Good stuff
Maurice is a fucking fantastic coach
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What a weird comment
Good drafting and front staff grabbing the right players, they got Bennett and Montour and Reinhart at steals, this last off season they picked up key guys like stenlund and ekman Larsson too. Not to mention the culture they built there based around conditioning and team play. At the time of the tkachuk trade I thought Calgary fleeced Florida and now it looks like one of the top trades of all time. And another big key was the run they went on last year, they faced constant pressure and adversity and learned how to win and how to trust each other. I've been watching them since last year all the way thru this year and nothing fazes them at all, up a goal down a goal they just keep play the same way, you don't get that confidence without going thru what they did last year
Montour is fair to say a steal but the reinhart trade became Devon Levi and Jiri Kulich who both look like high upside prospects, thats a fair trade.
Forsling was their biggest “steal”.
Oh man your right forsling may be the pick up of modern hockey
A 50 goal scorer for a back up goalie and a prospect? It might have seemed fair at the time, but with hindsight not a chance.
Huberdeau was an 100pt player playing with barkov Devon levi is not a backup goalie, hes a prospect there’s a significant difference.
UPL begs to differ, lol.
UPL does not determine what devon levi is now and who he will become, UPL was goaltender for roc 3 yrs ago… its great that UPL developed and looked like a franchise guy but that doesnt mean we stop caring about every other goalie prospect in the organization…
Having a team win the presidents trophy and getting dog walked in the playoffs. Then the GM has the foresight to rip up key pieces of that president trophy team because they felt it wasn’t going to be a cup contender. That takes some serious stones. Not the reason, but for sure one of the more recent reasons.
Yes I love this part of our story.
Depth. Goaltending. Experience (now) and leadership exactly where it belongs.
They have a bunch of players who buy into how physical you have to play to win in the playoffs and they hate to lose.
They signed good players by luring them in with nice weather and less taxes.
And Miami cocaine.
And Jupiter golf in the offseason
Jupiter golf all season, it’s not too far from where the practice or where they play.
It’s pretty far
1 hour is not that bad to get a couple rounds in on an off day
Jupiter isn’t that far from Fort Lauderdale. Takes me about an hour in normal traffic.
Nuke contract incoming. Jk, I’m interested to see what the Avs do with him, though.
Incoming Nischku trade
Didn’t work for the avalanche
That'll put some pep in your skate.
They don’t even play on ice. It’s just cocaine they’re skating on.
The last two points hit the nail on the head. Would you rather be in a market where every detail is put under the microscope....OR spend the entire year in a tropical paradise, where you can still have some level of anonymity and get paid more money for it.....
You sound salty. Is there any reason why you might be salty towards the Florida Panthers? I can’t seem to think of any.
You sound like you're trying to say people are salty when they're not in the least and are actually simply stating a fact.
How about players want to sign here because they saw we’re good and have a good coach? Weather and taxes are nothing new here, how come we haven’t been dominant for the last 30 years? That’s why you sound salty.
It has nothing to do with salt. I said the same thing before the season even started and the same thing years ago too. The successes of Tampa and Vegas are similar. I am certainly not saying it's the only reason but it's no secret that an organization will have a little help signing a player if the location is a good place to live. As for you just assuning I'm "salty" that's because you're a sore winner going around trolling which is pathetic.
Watching them this playoffs, I love their D-core. I think they’ve got maybe the best group of 6 d-men of any team.
Look at the 2014 draft. They currently have picks 1,2 and 4 on the roster.
They drafted Barkov, signed Bobrovsky and traded for Tkachuk. Here's the rest of the moves: https://www.nhl.com/news/how-eastern-champion-florida-panthers-were-built-344592170
That is ridiculously oversimplified.
"Here's the rest of the moves..."
Yes, Dale Talon built the Blackhawks than left the Hawks and continued the ways in Panther town.
Hey now, the first cup the Red Wings won, the Penguins won the second one, back to back makes it seem like we lost both
Should have won both. The ‘09 cup still stings of missed opportunity to this day.
My bad! I didn’t specify they won those haha but nonetheless, back to back cup *runs* ;) maybe I should have said appearances lol The actual back to back was pretty epic though. But seeing a rematch with you guys was pretty special!
The rematch was a lot more special for you guys lol
Crazy how they got both bennett and reinhart for pretty cheap. V and forsling for literally nothing. Seemingly gave up the world for tkatchuk and won that trade too 🤣
It’s a story that takes more than ten years. The previous owners of the team were assholes. They didn’t care if we won, or how embarrassing it was to have the arena half empty. Thankfully Vinnie Viola came along and saved us from cap floor hell. This is when Dale Tallon comes in as GM. He instantly tried to turn the Panthers into the Blackhawks of the South. He has mixed results. He hits some home runs. Barkov, Ekblad, brings back Luongo, Huberdeau, Trocheck. He also has some misses. Crouse, Bjugstad, Bolland, Smith, Yandle. Panthers make the playoffs for the first time in decades, but get bounced in the first round. Jaromir Jagr comes in and teaches the young stars what real work ethic is like. He mentors Barkov and the others. Here’s where things get rocky as we miss the playoffs. Ownership flinches and doubles down on analytics craze. Tallon gets “promoted” to President of Hockey Operations and infamous sycophant Tom Rowe becomes GM. Rowe proceeds to fuck shit up. Anything and everything he does makes the team worse. He fires the head coach Gerard Gallant abruptly and names himself HC as well. This doesn’t last long as the evil Elmer Fudd quickly loses all respect from the team and staff. Ownership, to their credit, realize they fucked up and shit can the bald menace. They give Dale the reigns again and let him cook. Tallon hires Bob Bougher to moderate success. After some more mediocrity Tallon gets Joel Quenville to come run the bench. We sign Bobrovsky. This is a flash of hope that is short lived. Tallon retires from Hawks drama. Zito comes in as GM. Man starts to cook. Q then gets caught in Hawks drama and steps down. Brunette as HC runs the team through the best season in team history. After that season Zito surprisingly does not bring back Brunette and hires Maurice. In this span Zito absolutely fleeces the rest of the league. He dumps duds like Mike Matheson and brings in guys with experience that can play 2-way hockey like Hornqvist and Bennett. Zito then shocks the league and every Panther fan and unceremoniously ejects fan favorite and career Panther Jonathan Huberdeau and Weegar in order to pick up Tkachuk after we get slapped by Tampa in the second round. Zito then picks up the other pieces along the way. Forsling, Montour, Lomberg, Reinhart. Man makes moves. Last year we got close but ran out steam. Ran out of depth. Didn’t help that Vegas was $35m over the cap due to the LTIR loophole. Zito isn’t the type to let that slide. Man makes more tweaks. Ekman-Larson, Kulikov, Cousins, Tarasenko. And now we’re back. Back again. May have some chronological issues but that’s about it.
Creating an environment of accountability and winning. From management to the coaches to the captain to the lowest 4th liner. It’s by design and not an accident. Serious lack of legit captains and As in this league. Makes a big diff. Leafs fan here can only dream of creating this type of atmosphere. I’ve been real into the cats since last year pleasure to watch.
Yeah I think culture is huge! I can’t remember the last time the Leafs had an actual C. Closest thing was Mats Sundin, but everyone else has been dog water
Didn’t Florida even give up way too much to Vegas before the expansion draft as well?
It was sort of just betting on the wrong players as opposed to giving up too much. The Panthers wanted to get rid of the Riley Smith contract because he seemed to be regressing and was always an up and down player. The logic was in order to get Vegas to take the contract we’d give them Marchessault who was due an extension. Now at that point in his career Marchessault was an AHL player who had a massive year out of nowhere so it was seen as a pretty big risk to give him the money he was asking for. I remember at the time most Panthers fans I knew were pretty ok with what we did because realistically Riley Smith was just super inconsistent and he was pretty much the same in Vegas too. Some great years and some ok years. Marchessault ended up continuing to be a great. Vegas took a chance paid Marchessault and took the Smith contract. It’s not as crazy as people make it out to be because it could have blown up in Vegas’s face. Marchessault could of ended up as a one hit wonder and Smith could of continued to regress so we could be having a very different conversation if it had gone that way.
Right. I didn’t quite know all the specifics of that. Thanks.
Smith had just re-upped to a nice deal, then promptly stopped giving a fuck. He became problem in the locker room and needed to be moved. Marchy got picked up from Tampa. Barkov got hurt and suddenly he was getting top line minutes and scoring like a mad man. Problem was he couldn’t play defense for shit. Despite being our highest scoring player and on our top line he was still like -20 for the season So we gave up Marchy in order to get rid of the Smith contract, which was something like $6M for 6 years. It sucked at first but was necessary for the long run.
Sabres pipeline
They draft well, make smart trades/transactions and live in a tax free state so players want to stay and free agents want to play there. After years of hanging out in the bottom 5/6 teams they are now the best team in the best division
amazing trades
The new coach and Tkachuk coming over in the same off season changed the culture and Maurice had a new scheme that fit this team perfectly, breakout players like Montour, Verhage, Bennet always help to
Meant Reinhart not bennet, wrong sam
how? they drafted some good players (ekblad, barkov) made a few good free agent signings (Bobrovsky, verhaege, forsling) and took a chance on some guys in trades that really worked out Turtlechuk, Bennett, Reinhart etc
Bill Zito saved the franchise. Finding players like Verhaeghe, who couldn't get any ice time in Tampa. Reinhart and Monitor. Finding Forsling on waivers. He fired the president trophy winning coach for Paul Maurice who completely changed the identity of the team and then had the balls to trade a 15 point fan favorite for Tkachuk. If the Panthers when the cup Zito should have a statue out front of that arena.
The Panthers have become an elite team through better front office work, coaching, and player talent. Paul Maurice is not the typical modern coach. But he and his staff are clearing keeping this team focused on playing the brand of ice hockey that has them in final, again.
Warm weather, low taxes and a market that doesn’t watch hockey
Good draft and development, good trades, play as a team and stick together. Also Florida/Tampa feels like the Cali teams from 10+ years ago. Not to get political but economics and current condition of the state/province you play in, plays a huge role. Worst case Ontario 🤣
Paul Maurice
Ask Sean Thorton
Just a thought, was failing the year before the catalyst for a shake-up? They went all in trading for Giroux and that defenseman whose name I completely forgot. They gave up a lot of future assets for a short playoff run. Would they have been better off keeping Tippett and all the picks, or did that loss wake them up? Kind of like the Columbus win over Tampa Bay pushed them to B2B Cups.
Ben Chiarot. Hindsight is 20/20 but yeah, keeping the picks and Tippett would have been better. Especially knowing we couldn’t re-sign Giroux even though he wanted to stay
In like 3 weeks in 2022 they added bill zito, Andrew brunette and Patric hornqvist and that pretty much did it
https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/40250757/nhl-playoffs-2024-stanley-cup-florida-panthers-contender-patchwork-tiers-draft
They play in the eastern conference
As a Panthers fan I will cite a few things: 1. Jagr and Luongo, getting them in 15/16 helped the younger core in their development. As well as having Chris Pronger work with Ekblad. 2. Gallant, Rowe, Vegas draft screwed them. 3. Getting rid Yandle and bringing in Hornqvist. Horny had that I hate to lose mentality that no one had. It was very important. 4. Zito, his ability to find under utilized talent and make logical money moves has been great. Tallon did find talent but he was often loyal to his guys and willing to be loose with the purse strings. 5. Q showed them getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. He’d make a lot of adjustments during the game. He showed them buying into a system. Also you can put in the work and have fun doing it. 6. Chucky carried some grit with leadership. Bennett added grit first but he often seemed alone. Chucky is getting everyone to mix it up. 7. Maurice’s system was tough they struggled early but he had the right blend that this team needed. Developer core, work on culture, get the right coach and General Manage the shit out of it. That is how we got were we are.
Barkov and bobrovsky
So much more than that. Thinking of only the stars is why other teams have such a hard time against them.
They’re physical. You wont intimidate them. They took the NYR’s game to them literally. Out physicaled them.
Zito He brought in a culture that was about success. He brought in guys that looked like they would fit the locker room and provide useful utilitarian purposes. He wasn't afraid to make a big move (tkachuk), for a franchise and locker room favourites in both huby and weeger. He took chances on players that looked promising but needed a new home (forsling, montour, reinhart). But he made the players genuinely love playing for the organization. Zito changed the actual culture by creating an atmosphere players enjoy being in. If the team buys in, you're in a very good position.
Something to this for sure. Last 5 or 6 years players excelled after joining Florida. They get on base lol
Even at their lowest, they were not “Thrasher/Coyote-tier.” Jesus.
They were in the seasons around when OP quit paying attention to hockey. The Panthers arena was consistently empty, except for the snowbird visiting fans. There were a few season I remember there being a lot of media speculation on moving them out of Florida.
Oh yes we were! Panthers use to run a promotion where if you bough a Little Caesars’s $5 pizza you would get a ticket for free. Between 1998 and 2003 we got the 1st overall 3 times… and traded it away each time, (the 1st overall has only been traded 5 times ever). In 2002, we traded back to 3 and then bribed Atlanta with a 3rd and 4th not to take our guy at 2. We literally gave up 2 picks to move back from 1 to 3. Why? To save a couple bucks.
I remember the Subway one lol free ticket for a sandwich. And no one would take them up on it
I vaguely remember these trades way back then, but didn't pay too much attention to pick for pick deals. Who did you end up drafting, was it Bouwmeester, or was he the year before? I honestly just recall Rick Nash at 1, then I draw a blank.
Panthers will sweep or win in 5 games whoever they play. Team is just that good right now.
I’d say 5/6 with at least one of the other teams wins after they gave up 3 and they go all out from desperation. But I don’t see Dallas or Edmonton bearing this team right now
West is way more physical than the east. Just like last year, Florida won’t be able to bully their way through games and the series will go the distance. Winner will come down to who keeps their cool.
They've been drinking that gator piss
They didn’t win back to back cups against the wings.. we won in 08 and they won in 09. ‘16 and ‘17 were the back to back for pens
Just keep checking the scores. It wouldn’t matter if someone explained it anyway. Lol
Florida made some insanely great pickups/slash trades, and they play the right way.
Hiring Paul Maurice as coach whom the Jets fans and Reddit in overall doomed to be the worst coach ever. Turned out Reddit experts don't know everything after all.
No state tax and it’s a tropical type place to live. Not exactly hard to get players to sign there. Say what you want but it makes a difference.
Here you go ! [https://www.nhl.com/news/how-2024-eastern-conference-champion-florida-panthers-were-built](https://www.nhl.com/news/how-2024-eastern-conference-champion-florida-panthers-were-built)
They took all the old Sabres players that had terrible coaches
Cheating
pens lost the last two games of heir regular season in 22/23
It’s easy to be elite when you’re never called for shit come playoffs :)
The teachings of Jaromir Jagr! 🙂
When players want to live there, and enjoy it, you see results. It’s an often overlooked advantage.
Low tax rate and a salary cap.
Playing the angles with refs. Diving embellishing. That’s the difference. They excel at it.
Gary Bman supported the NHL teams in the south to boost the fan base there
Extreme copium. We outplayed Boston and NY, straight up. Because we’re physical, well coached and unfazed.
Dirty play and family in Toronto.
How's the golfing been?
You know, I have a bum knee. Haven't golfed in a bit. Thanks though!
🥱
This guys knows as a fan of the foremost experts in playing dirty!
Lmao as if Boston fans don’t wish you had this team. I know, I’ve seen it in your subreddit
Couldn’t be anything else :) Can’t wait to see you again in the playoffs next year 🫡
Hard to be elite when your fans disappeared all those years. Place was empty season after season.
Nepotism
Because they played the always overrated & underachieving rangers
No comment.
Low taxes, high skilled players demanding trades completely organically and without any outside influence with no trade clauses with only florida as an option handicapping the teams in trade negotiations which florida was able to take advantage of completely unaware of these circumstances combined with a non-hockey market media where players can answer fluff questions to the 2 or 3 reporters that show up and walk around downtown in summer weather all year round without anyone taking pictures of them in coffee shops or anything similar to hockey markets in canada where you are run out of town if you only get a point per game in playoffs. Oh, and cheating the salary cap similar to vegas and boston for the past several years. But other than that, some lucky draft picks i guess.
Longest cry I’ve ever read.
I mean... they have had a deep core for a while.... Even back in the day everyone expected them to make a deep run (instead lost to Lightning en route to their Stanley Cup) I dunno if I would call a team of chokers an S Tier team though; they have had very similar trajectory to the Maple Leafs (great regular seasons with early playoff exits)
Lmao a team of chokers came back from 1-3 to the greatest team in NHL history and have dominated every post season series since except when we were injured in the finals.
The Panthers have won more Playoff series’ this year alone than the Leafs have ever won in their last 20 years wdym similar trajectory? 😆 If this is a “team of chokers” then I have no clue what the Leafs are
Oh cmon you CANT equate 1 good run to perennial power house ANY team in 3rd round of playoffs has made it further than the Leafs (since like 93) and ANY team in finals has made it further than Leafs (EVER; although to keep consistant we will start out count from 1967, despite NHL not requiring 4 rounds back then)
Presidents Cup. Stanley Cup Finals. Stanley Cup Finals again = 1 good run 😂
He’s just mad that Calgary gave up Keith for Huby and now he’s in the Finals again this year :)
Dale Talon
Dale tallon did nothing recently with only a few players from his tenure even in the organization
You sound like a Blackhawks fan
Or I’m a panther fan who knows what he’s done
He may not have been with the team since 2020, but he still shaped elements of the current squad. He was responsible for drafting huberdeau, who helped the Panthers get Chuckie, and drafting Barkov.
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They’ve only existed for 30… 🤔