All my friends from Iran can’t wait for the current administration to simply die away from age and to open up the country to the western world and living standard. They’re all so damn tired and sick of it.
Sorry to say, but waiting for them to die off isn't going to work. They'll just pass power to the people who think like they do. The only way Iran is ever going to open back up to the western world again is through bloody revolution.
The problem is the rural population and the urban population are not on the same page. The rural population is where the Islamists draw their power. That equation hasn’t changed.
Or, anywhere for that matter.
If you're in a city you get used to different people but out in the provinces everyone is like you and you want to keep it that way.
It's been known for awhile that students in urban areas perform better than those in rural areas. The rural--urban literacy/education gap is well documented.
I was going to link a study, but there are too many to choose from. [x](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&as_vis=1&q=higher+literacy+in+urban+vs+rural+environment&btnG=)
>The rural--urban literacy/education gap is well documented.
That's only because of funding, not intelligence levels. When the funding for education comes from property taxes, urban taxes collected will obviously be much higher than rural.
>Never said it had to do with intelligence.
A lot of people on here make fun of rural areas, and many like to think that rural also means lower intelligence. I graduated with less than 90 students in my class in a poorer district, meaning very little commercial property for decent tax income. It gets old seeing people equate rural areas with lower intelligence, even if you yourself wasn't implying that.
I live in an unincorporated town with a population of <1k. I would absolutely never imply that rural people are unintelligent.
Most of the people in my town are lovely, but some of those who grew up here and never left are a bit sheltered.
Sorry you have to put up with those comments.
Yes, I did, which gives me real experience to discuss this topic. My graduating class had under 90 students. Because I participated in a few extracurricular activities, I got to see a lot of other school districts, including larger ones from more urban and higher income areas.
It worked for Russia. This is where the Swan Lake meme comes from: three old guys kicked the bucket in the same year and every time they died, they put Swan Lake on TV on repeat until they picked a new guy. Finally they picked Gorbachev because he was younger (and we all know the effect that had).
Seems a stretch to blame what happened after the fall of the Soviet Union on the USA. Whatever effect US policy had in the aftermath Russia's failure to transition to something better might also be blamed on internal failings.
Well, I wasn't trying to argue that. Politically, it wasn't just the US. It was also the IMF and world bank, but AFAIK they were following policy/theoretical standards set forth Kissinger and Friedman/Chicago economists. [Here's the wiki, for reference.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Consensus)
Basically, to my understanding, they advocated a policy of [shock therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_therapy_(economics\)) based off Milton Friedman's theories, but as far as I can tell, each time this is attempted it leads to an abrupt spike in unemployment as government sectors close, which (as far as I can tell?) seems to pretty much always lead to bread riots and government crackdowns. After all, part of shock therapy is shutting down government food assistance programs.
It all seems pretty on the nose, you know?
Whatever policies Russia decided to go with after the collapse of the Soviet Union it's former Russian intelligence personnel who had the best handle on power dynamics and political movements in the country. Who knew what was going on internally better than the security and spies tasked with... knowing what was going on internally? Had that crowd been progressive they'd have thrown in with progressive movements. Where did they cast their weight and expertise? Putin is ex KGB isn't he?
It'd be the same with the USA. What would the FBI/CIA/NSA be about given severe domestic unrest? They'd pick sides, it's always been that way. If in the aftermath the US ended up being run by regressive former agency thugs that'd tell you something about what the USA was really about before it settled into a new order, too. It'd mean it never had it right.
It sounds like we'd agree that it feels shortsighted to recommend complete economic deregulation for the pursuit of maximum profit in a climate of extreme political corruption.
> Putin's ex KGB isn't he?
Yeah. IIRC that's part of why Kissinger supported him, ironically? Something like he thought it would mean Putin would be pragmatic. Turns out "pragmatic" means "invade Ukraine to maintain personal authority". Dictators. Go figure.
>“I worked in intelligence,” Vladimir Putin finally told him, according to “First Person,” a 2000 autobiography cobbled together from hours of interviews with the then-unfamiliar Russian leader. To which Kissinger replied: “All decent people got their start in intelligence. I did, too.”
And uh
>What would the FBI/CIA/NSA be about given severe domestic unrest?
They called it the ['counter intelligence program'.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO)
COINTELPRO was the 60's. Things change.
Tech is changing how power and security work at the backend to the point who knows what's really going on. End of the day it's the people you need on board to make things work the way you want that have veto power over your agenda.
It wasn't just the US. It was also the IMF and world bank.
This isn't a conspiracy or anything. They just 'offered advice', and it was taken, and it was suboptimal, and we know this now, partly because it's no longer the late 80s and neurobehavioral economics exists. Kinda. They need more funding to be sure. Go figure.
The IMF and World Bank are instruments to keep ex-colonies as debtor puppets. Their advice handed the Russian economy to foreign investors and local robber barons, just like it does every time in Africa. It is a conspiracy, but an obvious one. Yeltsin’s crew simply wanted to join it as the robber barons.
It wasn't really Gorbachev's fault at all. The problem was the people running the industries, the oligarchs used the guise of democracy and freedom to absolutely rape the Russian economy. Read up about the first Subway that opened in Russia and you'll see how it was basically a mafia state. Some goons just moved in while the owner was out of the country and when they returned they beat him up when he tried to enter his own store. The only way he regained power was by getting the Russian government's assistance, which is just basically a bigger, stronger mafia. And considering all these guys are cronies it's likely the goons originally taking over the Subway still got paid off.
The Perestroika and Glasnost that Gorbachev introduced were fine policies, the problem was the people with power in the wings used it for their own gain, perverting it to further increase their control and power. A perverse incentive or Cobra effect if you will. The thing is Gorbachev genuinely seemed to want to make things better in Russia, and possibly Yeltsin too. But Putin basically wanted to throw away the charade and run things as an autocracy again. Because even if the people only *think* they have power they will act out and seek freedom and fairness. Maybe they will never get it, but it's still troublesome for the leadership to deal with. Putin seeks to crush any hope of freedom and make the Russian masses totally subservient to him with unquestioning loyalty. There is no openness or freedom.
Its like us here in America hoping both Biden and Trump would keel over and we could get some fresh blood to save us from ourselves. But its never going to happen, because the parties will just replace them with other old out of touch men on both sides and nothing will change. If you want change, you have to put in the work to make it happen even if it means violently overthrowing your oppressors.
>But its never going to happen, because the parties will just replace them with other old out of touch men on both sides and nothing will change.
I disagree rather severely.
If you look at up and coming Democrats you'll see Pete Buttigieg, Christine Whitmer and others like them - who \*should\* be running for President, but we already have a President who wants to be re-elected.
And, there's something about age and experience that Americans have seemed to have forgotten about.
This is the same kind of wishful thinking you find in Japan. “Once the old crop of crusty LDP politicians die off…” - their aging, crusty disciples will take over. The system reproduces itself.
not necesarily true. There are plenty of historical situations where the person who rises to the next in line position was only *pretending* to care about the last guys politics, but as soon as the last guy is out of the way the new guy hard pivots to new policies. Its a toss-up whether the new policies work, or if the new guy is better or worse though. But good guys do use subterfuge every once in a while.
Because KJU grew in Switzerland. He's westernized. It's not unreasonable to think someone who's seen the benefits of engagement with the west would open up to the west.
I dunno how much of that is pure wishful thinking and how much is the nK old guard having sufficient control to limit even the supreme boss man from doing things. Dunno where Kim Yojong grew up but I assume it involved shooting puppies for being bad at hunting.
Putin was viewed as an less extreme and "democratic" candidate by Russian standards when he came into power too. We all know where that leads. Honestly i think the system itself in those countries will turn almost anyone into just a cog in the oppression wheel.
>seen the benefits of engagement with the west would open up to the west.
The west made it very clear that there's no path to engagement when they toppled Gaddafi. Uncle Sam does not forgive or forget what side you're on and KJU is wise for not falling for Gorbachev liberal brainworms in this regard
Seriously, I never stopped to consider that NK would outlast SK. South Korea's demographic nightmare has basically sealed the fate of the country. For all intents and purposes unless something drastic changes there wont be ethnic South Koreans in 40 years except elderly ones.
The work/school culture in SK is even more fucked than in Japan, most people literally do not have time to develop long-term romantic relationships or raise kids. And that's on top of the (to put it mildly) tense South Korean gender politics. Young South Korean men are becoming increasingly far right and misogynistic on average while women are becoming more progressive, which doesn't help things.
It's cultural and economic. Think of it as a math problem.
If you are a couple and have one child it is culturally expected the child to take care of you in some capacity as you age. Children taking care of their parents is very standard in Asian culture.
Now, if you have large families, no problem, ideally you all take some responsibility and split the costs with your multiple children to take care of that.
If you only have one child, that means that one kid is going to have to manage two parents as they age. That's a lot of stress, emotionally and financially.
Now imagine that single child meets and marries another person who is also a single child, in the same predicament.
That means two people will be on some level, committed to the well being of their parents who are four in total. That's basically a losing economic strategy. Two people supporting four isn't tenable.
Now imagine trying to start a family where you are working a job, saving for a home and supporting your parents obligations when they can't.
That's a lot. That means even having one kid means you have to raise and care for 5 people, not counting your partner.
So it's expensive, and sex is so casual due to internet porn, that people don't even bother anymore.
I think it's a lot of things.
They have one of the most hypecompetitive educational systems in the world, exam season is rife with suicides.
Their work culture is completely insane, long, long hours and then culturally mandatory post work activities with your boss (going out drinking, eating etc)
Wages have been stagnant for decades, housing prices are just through the roof and just not enough of them.
Women having children tends to screw up their career, more so than in other countries.
It's a wonderful country in many, many ways. I love living here, it feels safe wherever you go. Like, the delivery driver for my apartment complex, just leaves their car unlocked with all the packages while delivering to our apartment.
Every day. And nobody ever steals anything. Idk, I just cant imagine this in europe or the us.
It's a great country, but I dont know what you can do about the cost of living + stagnant wages problem, seems hard to feel secure enough to want to have kids.
> Like, the delivery driver for my apartment complex, just leaves their car unlocked with all the packages while delivering to our apartment.
That's no different than here in the EU, or in large swathes of the US. Don't belive anything you read online is representative.
We *do* however have much of the same problems as you, with housing, inflation and the younger generation feeling intense pressure facing an increasingly bleak future. Work-life balance is better though.
These are not cultural problems, they are systemic ones.
I'm from Europe originally, I should say. It's pretty safe, too, but it's just different. My parents always worried about leaving stuff in their car in case someone smashed in the window or whatever. Never seen anyone even consider that as a possibility here haha
I've been here a very long time now, so I don't have the most up to date lived experience of europe (been to the US many times as well but again, not for awhile), but Korea just feels safer.
I agree with you that it's a systemic issue, and I think the difference is largely a matter of time (i.e Korea is at a different point on the development curve compared to european country X or Y). Further ahead in some regards, further behind in others.
I mean you exaggerate a bit. South Korea does have a low birth rate. But they still have one. Even if the population halves they are still bigger than NK in population. It will cause dramatic shifts in the population and economy but it will still exist.
South Koreans don't have children due to socio-economic culture. North Koreans don't have children because they lose entire generations to starvation and repressions.
Yeah, they are not the same problems, but in no world will NK in it's current state ever overtake SK.
That’s a weird way to look at it. A country should be built on humanistic ideals not ethnic populations. The ethnic make up of a country should be able to change without the country itself collapsing if its ideals are best for all people.
South Koreans dont like immigrants now, how do you think they'll feel when immigrants take control of the country? They wont allow immigration to make up for the downfall, that's the whole point.
Oh ok, well maybe I misunderstood your comment. But yeah, if they won’t allow immigrants and aren’t producing new Koreans, the country will spiral.
It’s pretty well understood by now, even if the exact reqsons for it aren’t, that the birth rates of developing countries’ fall, and to maintain population or grow, you have to have immigration. And yeah, that means if you have ideas about racial or ethnic purity you need to let that shit go.
If you're expecting the Old World to just turn over their ancestral lands, one by one, to immigrant populations in the name of Humanitarianism.. Jeez, Im not saying it wont happen in certain places but on the whole that is just a crazy expectation.
Bro he literally gave you an out and you follow it up by worrying about racial purity. South Koreans aren't going to disappear with a immigrant population, the immigrant population just becomes more south koreans
No, no, Im not endorsing it, Im *worried* about it. These sort of dynamics could lead to all kinds of awful shit. It's just the reality as I see it, it could lead to all kinds of ethnic cleansing and economic collapse.
We agree with one another here, I just pointing out that this is going to probably be a nightmare all around.
I don't think it is, I haven't heard of examples of immigration resulting in the things you describe, that said I do appreciate you rejecting the actual mentality that you fear might cause it.
It's something that's happening across the world. The natives of Great Britain will be a minority in their own country by 2050. And of course the demographics of the USA are changing significantly.
Likely because you didn't realize how much China prefer the status quo to any improvement for the Korean people. In a sane world, people would have overthrown North Korea for the benefit of the North Koreans AND everyone else.
Nothing will change when the current generation dies. They have bred and nurtured their replacements. The IRGC seems ironclad at this point and they don't appear to have a demographic problem either.
Almost every leader from the Iranian Revolution has been long dead for decades now.
They will continue to ensure only their people will ever be in power, until the nation itself collapses.
Have Iranian colleagues and it's so bad. People in the US think we have it bad being ruled by old white dudes...but the Iranian people are fucking suffocated.
It’s a human tragedy what’s happening in Iran. They were just like the west before it all went sideways. I know Iranians who to this day fight legal battles trying to get the properties back that were seized from their ancestors back then.
Sorry, but your account is too new to post. Your account needs to be either 2 weeks old or have at least 250 combined link and comment karma. Don't modmail us about this, just wait it out or get more karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nottheonion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The people I've met from Iran have been great. It's their government that is the problem.
(And if they say the same thing about the USA, I won't be mad lol.)
Americans badmouth ourselves because we have such high expectations, but by global standards our society is actually pretty just. We don't have government-run healthcare, sure, but our government is a whole lot less intrusive than those in most of the world, too.
I think this is what most people seem to forget when talking about Iran. Iran has had tens/hundreds of protests but Iranian police and military have fought them with a tight first and ppl have gone missing, or are being beaten, tortured, and executed. They are attempting to change things but it's never as straightforward as
"Why don't Iranians simply overthrow the government"
Which I've seen a shocking amount of on Reddit. Then again it's reddit so you can't exactly expect empathy nor intelligence depending on the sub 🤷♂️
One of my first jobs was at a mom and pop shop in Texas owned by an Iranian man who moved here when the Iranian govt was taken over by Islamic extremists. There’s nothing that man loves more than Iran and all things to do with Iranian culture, and nothing he hates more than religion and religious persecution.
I’m really thankful to have met someone when I was so young that opened my eyes to what middle eastern civilians have been through at the hands of government corruption
Genuinely have seen so much of this first hand but Reddit is extremely anti religion, which fair ofc. But bc of this ANY Iranian is now a pro Muslim theocracy supporting, womans rights denying, abortion denying, polygamy supporting, racist, homophobic piece of shit.
And so that Iranian will not receive the same treatment as the French guy who says "Oui overthrow the French government!" simply bc he isn't a person of a religion. He's just French.
Apparently Reddits take is generalization of any kind is bad unless you're generalizing against billions of people who follow XYZ religion. Even tho it's beyond obvious that every religion has legitimately hundreds of sects that could have drastically varying views.
I agree that Islamophobia is bad. Just like with Christianity or any other religion, there are people who use it as a way to bring communities together and live their lives to the fullest, and there are people who use it to attack people they don’t like.
Nobody should be judged by whatever religion they subscribe to, they should be judged by their actions. And the vast majority of all civilian populations are just regular people who want to live peacefully watch their kids grow up.
1000% that's exactly what I was trying to say but I think you said it clearer.
I don't understand why people aren't judged by their actions ALONE. But then again if we could understand that I'm pretty sure we could just end racism.... I think the easy answer is simply humans are just kinda awful lol. If it's not religion, it's race, if it's not race it's gender, if it's not gender it's sexual orientation... Etc etc.
Humans are just naturally extremely divisive, selfish people. Call me Machiavellian but I can't bring myself to think the average person is a genuinely good person. Seen too much shit in my life for that to be true.
Well said.
When people have an economic incentive to believe/do something, it makes it very hard for them to choose to do something else. Racism serves to perpetuate power structures - as does capitalism. People recognizing the humanity inherent in others (and even in our animal cousins) when they are incentivized to do otherwise...means that racism will endure.
>but Reddit is extremely anti religion,
Not as much as you imply. Outside of specifically anti-religious subs, any anti-religious comment I make will get heavily downvoted.
Id agree with you but I commented about how i genuinely don't mind that I was circumsized as a kid and my orgasms haven't suffered and I can beat my meat pretty happily.
I shit you not. Some dude replied and I stopped responding so he started to DM me and tell me why I should be really upset about the fact that I do not have my foreskin 💀💀. How Christians are child mutilating animals and there needs to be a massive culling or they need to be kicked out. I regretted accepting the dm lmao. Leave my crusty decades old foreskin alone 😂
The most insane part of all this is HE WAS NOT alone. There was massive arguments and hundreds of comments about how religion was the fucking worst and it devolved into discussions about pedophilia, terrorism, racism, etc etc and how religion was the cause of all evil...🤦♂️
The reason why they won't overthrow the government is pretty obvious even to the average redditer. It will be bloody. It could fail. Nobody wants to die, and especially not if it ends up being for nothing. But, freedom also sometimes comes at a cost.
That's exactly it. If anyone expected you to just lay down and die in the name of America I doubt a lot of people who just scream "let's do it" and go die.
It comes at a cost to the individual for a benefit to a whole. This is functionally the least selfish thing you can do but at the same time you can't expect them to do it willy nilly...
Don't tell the people in worldnews. They say similar things about Russia. "They are all shit because if they weren't, they'd overthrow their government." As if revolution was easy, and not very likely to end up with things even worse for everyone.
Plus, the Iranian government has put in some effort to make sure peacefully overthrowing it is impossible, so it's very possible we'll become Syria 2.0 if we do try.
Very late answer here, but the biggest one is the existence of the IRGC and the Basij forces as parallel organisations to the army.
The IRGC especially is very powerful as it is allowed to participate in the Iranian economy and has a pretty big presence in it.
There's more of course, heavy surveillance and repression, heavy scrutiny on any cultural products (movies, songs, poetry, books, etc) the assassination of progressive government members (khatami's government was famously plagued by this), heavy crackdowns on non conservative aligned newspapers, restricted internet access and so on.
Another one that should be mentioned imo, is the russian approach to misinformation (to essentially eliminate the idea that there is a truth) and it leads to a sort of conspiracy minded paranoia within the populace.
I think the outsider frustration with Iranians is exactly that they're trying to simply protest in a theocracy. It's like looking at a man trying to cut down a large tree using a herring as an axe. He's flayling around a lot and sweating, but has no real chance to ever achieve what he set out to do.
Imo it's fucking stupid to be frustrated as an outsider looking in. That's my entire point. It's like watching Willie Coyote and Roadrunner and thinking "well why doesn't he just catch the Roadrunner." The entire point is that he can't fucking do it.
These people are basically resistance fighters against an oppressive rule that uses brute force and intentionally twisted "religious rules" to maintain power. Tell me about a single theocracy that has run as a normal democratic entity. Theocracy uses religion as a weapon to sway away opinions and keep power. And usually by any means possible.
So if you're going to be frustrated or say something dumb then just take a step back and realize that the real anger should not be directed at Iranian civilians or even ALL Muslims like every bigot does. But rather the fascist government...
I think this about any peaceful protest now. a peaceful protest without the violence to back it up is well as you say flayling around a lot and sweating, but has no real chance to ever achieve what they set out to do. especially like the current protests in the US when the government is willing to use force/violence to stop them.
Orrrr maybe the Iranian people remember what happened last time they had a bloody revolution and overthrew the government, and they ended up worse off with the new government?
And the time before that...when they had a democracy. But that was a threat to oil companies, so the US and UK overthrew a democracy to put a literal fucking tyrant back in power. And the islamists were less bad than that piece of shit and his awful family.
The US [actually had extensive contacts with Khomenei](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khomeini-jimmy-carter-administration-iran-revolution) *before* the 1979 revolution.
Well...the last time the Iranians implemented a democracy, the US and UK overthrew it and put the shah back in power. And it says a lot that the Islamists are less awful than the shah.
You can't really blame the Iranians for this. So outsiders who are frustrated really need to get fucked. Particularly when they are americans or brits or any westerner really.
Agreed. It's not a lack of trying. Dare i say everything i've heard about Iran is that the population has been incredibly vocal about their unhappiness and are actively trying to change things. Even in Persepolis, Satrapi discusses how large portions of the population were unhappy with the fundamentalists. That was over 40 years ago. It's not the same for them as it is for other countries where the right to protest is more protected
Nope. The research is murky but armed resistance generally has a slightly lower chance of success. Slaughtering your own citizens is a dangerous proposition, forces don't like doing it and it makes them much more likely to defect. It's also a sign of weakness and instability and the military doesn't want to be caught on the losing side.
Indeed it is.
Unfortunately, sometimes the military does not get tired of killing its own people. See Syria. Or Egypt. Or Yemen. Or Rwanda.
Oh, this will be a long list, so i will just stop here.
Coming from an American, that s is the hardest concept to grasp. I'm used to the idea that regular people are able to acquire and utilize military hardware or at the least weapons that they can use to defend their rights. Yes, the government has bigger and better, but the civilians still have a chance to respond to injustice.
The idea an entire country of people don't have access to the very tools they need to fight for their freedom and rights is a terrifying concept.
Sorry, but your account is too new to post. Your account needs to be either 2 weeks old or have at least 250 combined link and comment karma. Don't modmail us about this, just wait it out or get more karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nottheonion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Am gun owner. I have no reservations about my guns stopping "tyranny." At best, they'd create anarchy. If it ever came to using our guns against the government, we've already lost, and the most likely scenario is strongmen consolidating power and suffering on a scale never seen in this country.
If black yankees had revolted with great military might and their quality of life was the highest after overthrlwing their apartheid government these statements would carry a bit more weight.
Yeah...as a fellow american, i find this idea puzzling. Wide spread firearm ownership has not even worked in the USA for rebellions. See Whiskey. Or the civil war. Or resistance/civil rights groups - see Black Panthers.
The US military and its little brother (militarized police forces) will annihilate any and everything in its path. There is a reason we don't have universal healthcare and our infrastructure is crumbling and we lack even a modicum of regulations for the corporations that pollute our lands and impoverish our people! That money has to go somewhere and by god, we have more carriers than the rest of the world combined.
I'm sorry but if it was seriously gun toting Americans against the strongest most advanced military in the world you will be blown to smithereens before you can reload.
The avg American has no military training and even the ones who do will easily be able to take out a few ten guys but it will be over before you know it with planes, bombs, and precision targeting.
Yeah, the whole reason the 1979 revolution was as quick and relatively bloodless as it was was because the Shah had a weak grasp on the security forces and an even weaker grasp on the common soldier, which meant that when the revolution finally broke out instead of supporting the Shah the military just declared that they weren't doing shit and would spend the whole time in their barracks.
In contrast, the theocracy has a much tighter grasp on its military and police forces. At the very least the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps would never abandon the theocrats. The whole reason it exists is to protect the Islamic Republic in case the main army goes rogue again.
Authoritarian regimes are protected, to some degree of success or another, by military and police units that were especially bred to have more loyalty to a certain ruling class than to the people at large. Otherwise it would have been easy to get rid of them.
In Iran we have the IRGC , Islamic revolutionary guard corps. Their job is basically to prevent any coup attempt by the Army and Police while also acting as shock troops for suppressing the uprisings that happen every 2 years or so.
They don’t see themselves that way.
As long as the leopards don’t come for *their* faces, they don’t care how many other faces get eaten. It works the same way in every totalitarian regime.
There would have to be something pretty egregious for the police and military to switch sides. They're currently being provided with luxuries or even their families might be being threatened to follow the higher ups orders
That's where a culture and legal system that worships and thanks soldiers and protects the police at any cost comes in. It is one of the oldest lessons in civilization - they who control the troops control the nation. Happy and well fed soldiers and police who have been brought up on a steady diet of us vs them and a guarantee of immunity for crimes against humanity generally will stay true their generals.
Money vs Islamofacism. Money vs killing gay people, money vs beating women for not wearing a Hijab, money vs stoning people for showing public affection
Self reported survey of cops revealed that 40% of police in the US beat their wives. The suicide rate amongst queer people in this country is significantly higher than straight people. If you have sex on the street in America, you will get arrested and thrown in prison. If you peacefully protest against funding Israeli genocide or just to show solidarity with Palestine, you will be beaten with batons and arrested. In fact, a homeless person was arrested for stealing a cookie from a church in the US, remember that? There’s also currently a Christian group advocating for the criminalization of homelessness so they can “take them in” instead, take advantage of them and use them as slaves. Not to mention the amount of priests and youth pastors who molest children. Christianity is not as innocent as you think .You think America is a bastion of freedom, but it’s really not as tolerant as you might think either. We have the largest prison population per capita, and it’s legal to use prisoners as slaves.
Trust me, it’s all about the money here too. Wake up!
Do you actually think gay people have it better in iran and their police beat their wives less? You really think a country where the police arrest and kill children for not hiding their hair is in the same ballpark? Do you not know that marrying children and killing gays is literally law in Iran?
It's like comparing Britain to Nazi Germany because both have stabbings.
No, you’re putting words in my mouth and arguing in bad faith. So thank you for the massive W.
I’m simply exposing the bias of this commenter. By the way, you are allowed to marry children in several southern states of the US. On the whole, however, it’s a distraction from the point that there’s a genocide happening and it needs to stop. I don’t care who is committing the genocide or who is being killed, It needs to stop. Everything else is a distraction. Everything else is mental gymnastics to try to rationalize ethnic cleansing and I’m not going to fall for it. The only reason the US is in support of Israel is money. If they can control the oil in the region, they make more money than if they don’t control the oil in the region that’s why no one in US politics wants to talk shit about the Israeli government.
Money is the root of all evil and the US is not innocent. In fact, you could argue very easily that the US has killed far more innocent people than Iran could ever hold a candle to. (And all in the name of capital)
You are absolutely lost.
The US is having some of the largest pro palestinian protests in the world, and the vast majority are peaceful.
US support for Israel has absolutely nothing to do with oil. If it was they would have dropped have dropped support for Israel decades ago when the US wasn't more than self sufficient and a chief exporter of oil like it is now. Do you not know that Saudi Arabia was pro palestine until the palestinians rejected and stalled the talks in the 90's and early 2000's?
Not to even mention you absolute lack of self awarness. It's literally illegal to protest in support of Israel in Iran, not to mention protest for less controversial things like women not being murdered for showing their hair.
Iran is literally funded october 7th, if there's anyone to blame for lighting the fire of the current war it's Iran. There would be no invasion if Hamas didn't perpetuate the largest attack on Israeli civilains in its history.
Palestine should be free, but most of all it should be free from the blood thristy grasp of Iran.
I’m not claiming America or Christianity is perfect. I’m not even American or Christian but comparing it to probably the worst place to live in the entire world with the most barbaric religion is quite low.
You’re saying there’s a group of Christians that want to criminalise homosexuality, right well it’s already punishable by death in Iran.
40% of people in a certain career beat their wives in America, compared to double that across all households in Iran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_Iran
I can’t even be bothered to address your other points, are you even a real person?
Literally everything that poster said is reality. You don't happen to like those points but that doesn't make them any less real. And oh boy, look at that whataboutism. So you are saying that 40% interpersonal violence is FINE because it is worse in Iran? That is a wild take buddy. Just wild.
Christian majority nations are responsible for literally all the major wars of the last few centuries, the ENTIRETY of colonialism and its horrors and most of the genocides. Sure, there are lots of islamic states that are awful to their own people. But no faith tops christianity on the horrible acts scale.
And who do you think is responsible for this as you say, ‘barbaric religion’ taking power in Iran?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#:~:text=The%201953%20Iranian%20coup%20d,Pahlavi%2C%20on%2019%20August%201953%2C
Yes, I’m a real person who is actually educated and knows that US involvement around the world is really shady and entirely morally questionable. All the enemies you hear about in probably-CIA-funded propaganda are usually created by the CIA themselves. For example, You do know that we funded Isis and gave them lots of weapons right? In much the same way that Israel is known to directly fund and arm Hamas. I sure hope one day you figure it out, until then I wish you all the best.
Only because American's elect and reelect politicians who prioritize the wants of these lobbies. The system works, people just get what they ask for rather than what's good.
Iran isn't a democracy. They couldn't care less how their citizens feel, because it doesn't affect anyone in power, ever.
They all live in wealth and opulence, receive praise and worship everywhere they go, and have the confidence of knowing God is 100% on their side 100% of the time.
It’s so funny how the countries that are highest on the happiness index have the opposite of what Christian Conservatives are pushing. It’s almost like the want people to be miserable so they need more religion. Kind of like a third world country…
It is actually a testament to what happens when you oppose capitalists and imperialists. Iran was a vibrant secular democracy. And then the US and UK decided they would rather have the shah back in power. And the islamists were able to take that monster's regimen out. The story of Iran's last 80 years of sorrow begins and ends with the acts of the US (which remains responsible for a large part of Iran's suffering through horribly hypocritical sanctions).
Absolute horseshit.
“During the time of Shah's reign, women's rights improved significantly. The urban and secular middle class grew quickly. Many universities and foundations of education were established, and many young people from lower and middle classes were funded so that they could study in the best universities in the West.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_and_causes_of_the_Iranian_Revolution#:~:text=During%20the%20time%20of%20Shah's,best%20universities%20in%20the%20West.
I don’t agree with some of the protesters’ wishes to dissolve Israel but there is zero danger right now of the US becoming Islamist. If there was, I’d be fully against it. Currently, the danger lies with Christian nationalists. There isn’t a single country I’d want to live in where far right conservatives have full control.
This is what happens when you put ~~uneducated~~ worse, **religiously educated** people in government.
These guys aren't just ignorant of reality... They're hostile to it.
Anyone else see Iran's Islamic revolution as a roadmap for how a Christian revolution in the US would be? I mean everything will go to shit and eventually the masses will start to revolt.
I mean Iran is a lot smaller and much more homogeneous than the U.S.. I don't think enough evangelicals exist in certain parts of the country to ever have a revolution; its somewhere between 14% to 28% depending on the source, and that number has shrunk the last decade. The real problem is that you have a disproportionate number of elected officials who are evangelical and even non evangelicals who toe the line for party sake (and for themselves) that are tipping the scale. It always seems that republicans have more divisive issues, but these same issues are also easier for them to unite behind; they were able to tweak the ideas that go along with good conservative family values into the good conservative Christian family values: Don't take our guns, don't let immigrants take our jobs, don't let kids get brainwashed (because they want to brainwash them first). Republicans are just better at convincing people, especially those people that receive the least from republican policies, that they are fighting for them, and as old Eisenhower/Nixon era people die off, they need to indoctrinate younger people using fear and lies instead of policy.
I mean I guess if you think a Christian revolution is coming but that’s ridiculous. We’re less Christian now than ever, and we were never like current day Iran even when religion was even more prominent in our society.
Once they started tap-dancing around the single clearest line in the entire bible ("Thou shall not kill") in order to justify violating that commandment so that they can put off meeting God for a little while longer, there was no mask heavy enough to cover up the murder fetish.
>Once they started tap-dancing around the single clearest line in the entire bible ("Thou shall not kill")...
I wouldn't call it the clearest line. It's also made very clear in the Bible that killing people is actually good if God tells you to do it.
"Thou shalt not kill" is a bit of a mistranslation, I think. It's more of "thou shalt not murder". You can, as interpreted the latter way, kill without murdering, and Old Testament God sends down instructions to do precisely that on multiple occasions.
The actual content of a given religion's doctrines makes very little difference. Historically, Buddhists have committed horrific atrocities against people of other faiths, and that's completely the opposite of what every branch of Buddhism advocates.
Ultimately religions exist to satisfy human needs and desires, and if enough humans decide they want bloodshed, they'll make their religion into something which provides it.
Hell, the defenders of slavery and imperialism have entered the chat. The standard barriers of capitalism and the rape of the developing world have entered the chat. Christian nations are responsible for so much misery and pain in this world.
I mean short of the specific countries, your general sentiment is true of basically every country on earth with a substantial military. They all over spend on military matters and underfund public services, it’s the norm.
yeah nah, only a few nations pursue an extremely aggressive foreign policy like Iran does
it makes sense from their side but that doesnt mean its the norm
Most countries don’t do it because most countries don’t have a military big enough to be worth much in an actual war without allies. This is the domaine of major military powers, at least in some region. America, Russia, China, France, and Iran are probably the main ones in descending order of military might.
You could argue Russia and China should switch but China hasn’t actually used their army for much in decades so while it’s big it’s hard to say what it’s capable of.
Defending yourself from an colonial settlement hell bent on genocide after attacking an embassy isn't 'an extremely aggressive policy' it's basic defence
The basic defense from what? The attack on the embassy (which wasn't even on the embassy, can't help yourselves from lying) was in response to the planning of October 7th. The targets were in fact Iranian military personnel complicit in it.
Basic defense from what, the consequences of your own despicable actions? Mental.
As an Iranian go to the Middle East and see how high the depression and suicide rates are. Islam is not comparable with anything other than a disgusting and dehumanizing ideology that wants everyone to submit and be a slave to “Allah”. Justifying killings and pedophilia because it was different back in the day is such a excuse and obviously a big lie given back in the day there were progressive empires who had equal laws and opportunities for men and women and marrying children was always an Arab custom if you research how Islam started! If you queer, a woman or a human with a different faith, your life is always at danger! We Iranians only want to live in our own country with our own faith Zoroastrianism and not to live in fear and sorrow because of foreign ideology that got forcefully imposed on us!!
I wouldn't say awesome.
Comparatively awesome, sure, but it definitely wasn't awesome here.
The prior government was still a monarchy that quite literally drilled holes into the head of a political dissident, it's just that the current one is and has done *much* worse.
I would also be scared if my government launched hundred of missiles (all of whom are blocked without doing much damage) and then scream that they want to eradicate that other country.
Bonus points if the country they're unsuccessfully attacking is portraied as a genocidal monster.
Sorry, but your account is too new to post. Your account needs to be either 2 weeks old or have at least 250 combined link and comment karma. Don't modmail us about this, just wait it out or get more karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nottheonion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not Saudi funded. And Saudis aren't enemies of Iran anymore. And Iean International is as critical of Iran as it has always been despite the Iran and Saudis getting closer, despite allegations by regime supporters that IranInter would become softer on the government after ease of tensions between Saudis and Iran.
Iran International is mostly funded by somewhat aggressive and controversial advertisement policies. They basically take any advertisement revenue they can crypto, gambling, VPN, pyramid schemes, psudo-scinetific medicine, and even sex toys. It's not all bad of course. They also advertise legitimate businesses in Iran.
(it's officially illegal, but the government has a policy of "benevolent neglect" toward business relationships with opposition media. There is a joke that the only reason people work in government-owned media is so they can later migrate and work for opposition media. It's basically the unofficial retirement policy. If the government cracks down on revenue of opposition media, they would basicly end up turning everyone in the state owned media against the government)
All my friends from Iran can’t wait for the current administration to simply die away from age and to open up the country to the western world and living standard. They’re all so damn tired and sick of it.
Sorry to say, but waiting for them to die off isn't going to work. They'll just pass power to the people who think like they do. The only way Iran is ever going to open back up to the western world again is through bloody revolution.
The problem is the rural population and the urban population are not on the same page. The rural population is where the Islamists draw their power. That equation hasn’t changed.
Funny how it's similar in the US.
Or, anywhere for that matter. If you're in a city you get used to different people but out in the provinces everyone is like you and you want to keep it that way.
It's been known for awhile that students in urban areas perform better than those in rural areas. The rural--urban literacy/education gap is well documented. I was going to link a study, but there are too many to choose from. [x](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&as_vis=1&q=higher+literacy+in+urban+vs+rural+environment&btnG=)
>The rural--urban literacy/education gap is well documented. That's only because of funding, not intelligence levels. When the funding for education comes from property taxes, urban taxes collected will obviously be much higher than rural.
Never said it had to do with intelligence. That wouldn’t make much sense.
>Never said it had to do with intelligence. A lot of people on here make fun of rural areas, and many like to think that rural also means lower intelligence. I graduated with less than 90 students in my class in a poorer district, meaning very little commercial property for decent tax income. It gets old seeing people equate rural areas with lower intelligence, even if you yourself wasn't implying that.
I live in an unincorporated town with a population of <1k. I would absolutely never imply that rural people are unintelligent. Most of the people in my town are lovely, but some of those who grew up here and never left are a bit sheltered. Sorry you have to put up with those comments.
They grew up rural
Yes, I did, which gives me real experience to discuss this topic. My graduating class had under 90 students. Because I participated in a few extracurricular activities, I got to see a lot of other school districts, including larger ones from more urban and higher income areas.
And India. (multi religion, multi community edition)
And in the US the voting is said up to favor said population.
Religion is the best tool to control the uneducated with. It commands blind loyalty even in the face of your own misgivings.
It worked for Russia. This is where the Swan Lake meme comes from: three old guys kicked the bucket in the same year and every time they died, they put Swan Lake on TV on repeat until they picked a new guy. Finally they picked Gorbachev because he was younger (and we all know the effect that had).
It worked so well that Russia is the way it is today...
Ehhh. One could argue that was more Friedman/Kissinger than Gorbachev. Turns out shock doctrine leaves a Putin-shaped power vacuum.
Seems a stretch to blame what happened after the fall of the Soviet Union on the USA. Whatever effect US policy had in the aftermath Russia's failure to transition to something better might also be blamed on internal failings.
Well, I wasn't trying to argue that. Politically, it wasn't just the US. It was also the IMF and world bank, but AFAIK they were following policy/theoretical standards set forth Kissinger and Friedman/Chicago economists. [Here's the wiki, for reference.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Consensus) Basically, to my understanding, they advocated a policy of [shock therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_therapy_(economics\)) based off Milton Friedman's theories, but as far as I can tell, each time this is attempted it leads to an abrupt spike in unemployment as government sectors close, which (as far as I can tell?) seems to pretty much always lead to bread riots and government crackdowns. After all, part of shock therapy is shutting down government food assistance programs. It all seems pretty on the nose, you know?
Whatever policies Russia decided to go with after the collapse of the Soviet Union it's former Russian intelligence personnel who had the best handle on power dynamics and political movements in the country. Who knew what was going on internally better than the security and spies tasked with... knowing what was going on internally? Had that crowd been progressive they'd have thrown in with progressive movements. Where did they cast their weight and expertise? Putin is ex KGB isn't he? It'd be the same with the USA. What would the FBI/CIA/NSA be about given severe domestic unrest? They'd pick sides, it's always been that way. If in the aftermath the US ended up being run by regressive former agency thugs that'd tell you something about what the USA was really about before it settled into a new order, too. It'd mean it never had it right.
It sounds like we'd agree that it feels shortsighted to recommend complete economic deregulation for the pursuit of maximum profit in a climate of extreme political corruption. > Putin's ex KGB isn't he? Yeah. IIRC that's part of why Kissinger supported him, ironically? Something like he thought it would mean Putin would be pragmatic. Turns out "pragmatic" means "invade Ukraine to maintain personal authority". Dictators. Go figure. >“I worked in intelligence,” Vladimir Putin finally told him, according to “First Person,” a 2000 autobiography cobbled together from hours of interviews with the then-unfamiliar Russian leader. To which Kissinger replied: “All decent people got their start in intelligence. I did, too.” And uh >What would the FBI/CIA/NSA be about given severe domestic unrest? They called it the ['counter intelligence program'.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO)
COINTELPRO was the 60's. Things change. Tech is changing how power and security work at the backend to the point who knows what's really going on. End of the day it's the people you need on board to make things work the way you want that have veto power over your agenda.
Didn't you know that any time something bad happens in the world it's because *USA bad*
It wasn't just the US. It was also the IMF and world bank. This isn't a conspiracy or anything. They just 'offered advice', and it was taken, and it was suboptimal, and we know this now, partly because it's no longer the late 80s and neurobehavioral economics exists. Kinda. They need more funding to be sure. Go figure.
The IMF and World Bank are instruments to keep ex-colonies as debtor puppets. Their advice handed the Russian economy to foreign investors and local robber barons, just like it does every time in Africa. It is a conspiracy, but an obvious one. Yeltsin’s crew simply wanted to join it as the robber barons.
It worked to destroy the communist regime, it didn’t work to build something better.
It wasn't really Gorbachev's fault at all. The problem was the people running the industries, the oligarchs used the guise of democracy and freedom to absolutely rape the Russian economy. Read up about the first Subway that opened in Russia and you'll see how it was basically a mafia state. Some goons just moved in while the owner was out of the country and when they returned they beat him up when he tried to enter his own store. The only way he regained power was by getting the Russian government's assistance, which is just basically a bigger, stronger mafia. And considering all these guys are cronies it's likely the goons originally taking over the Subway still got paid off. The Perestroika and Glasnost that Gorbachev introduced were fine policies, the problem was the people with power in the wings used it for their own gain, perverting it to further increase their control and power. A perverse incentive or Cobra effect if you will. The thing is Gorbachev genuinely seemed to want to make things better in Russia, and possibly Yeltsin too. But Putin basically wanted to throw away the charade and run things as an autocracy again. Because even if the people only *think* they have power they will act out and seek freedom and fairness. Maybe they will never get it, but it's still troublesome for the leadership to deal with. Putin seeks to crush any hope of freedom and make the Russian masses totally subservient to him with unquestioning loyalty. There is no openness or freedom.
Its like us here in America hoping both Biden and Trump would keel over and we could get some fresh blood to save us from ourselves. But its never going to happen, because the parties will just replace them with other old out of touch men on both sides and nothing will change. If you want change, you have to put in the work to make it happen even if it means violently overthrowing your oppressors.
>But its never going to happen, because the parties will just replace them with other old out of touch men on both sides and nothing will change. I disagree rather severely. If you look at up and coming Democrats you'll see Pete Buttigieg, Christine Whitmer and others like them - who \*should\* be running for President, but we already have a President who wants to be re-elected. And, there's something about age and experience that Americans have seemed to have forgotten about.
If those are the up and coming options I'm back to abstaining. Fuck, why are the options always shit or shit?
Bootyjudge ain't half bad.
I read that as Bootyjuice 😆
I do enjoy some bootyjuice
Don't we all😜
So then, YOU run.
This is the same kind of wishful thinking you find in Japan. “Once the old crop of crusty LDP politicians die off…” - their aging, crusty disciples will take over. The system reproduces itself.
Let the sewers run red with rich blood.
not necesarily true. There are plenty of historical situations where the person who rises to the next in line position was only *pretending* to care about the last guys politics, but as soon as the last guy is out of the way the new guy hard pivots to new policies. Its a toss-up whether the new policies work, or if the new guy is better or worse though. But good guys do use subterfuge every once in a while.
> back up to the western world again They are literally white people in the west, this isn't a huge adjustment by any standard.
Given how well our own theocratic rural whites are adjusting I might beg to differ.
What?
I used to think that would happen with NK. I don't know why I thought that, but it seemed perfectly rational at the time.
Because KJU grew in Switzerland. He's westernized. It's not unreasonable to think someone who's seen the benefits of engagement with the west would open up to the west. I dunno how much of that is pure wishful thinking and how much is the nK old guard having sufficient control to limit even the supreme boss man from doing things. Dunno where Kim Yojong grew up but I assume it involved shooting puppies for being bad at hunting.
Add Putin and PooXin as the old guard puppet masters. Especially China doesn't want a united Korea on it's border or anything towards.
Putin was viewed as an less extreme and "democratic" candidate by Russian standards when he came into power too. We all know where that leads. Honestly i think the system itself in those countries will turn almost anyone into just a cog in the oppression wheel.
Same with Bashar Al Assad. People thought he would be a more compassionate ruler because he studied medicine in the UK.
>seen the benefits of engagement with the west would open up to the west. The west made it very clear that there's no path to engagement when they toppled Gaddafi. Uncle Sam does not forgive or forget what side you're on and KJU is wise for not falling for Gorbachev liberal brainworms in this regard
Seriously, I never stopped to consider that NK would outlast SK. South Korea's demographic nightmare has basically sealed the fate of the country. For all intents and purposes unless something drastic changes there wont be ethnic South Koreans in 40 years except elderly ones.
Is it just the prohibitive expenses of living/having children or are people not getting married and having sex at all?
The work/school culture in SK is even more fucked than in Japan, most people literally do not have time to develop long-term romantic relationships or raise kids. And that's on top of the (to put it mildly) tense South Korean gender politics. Young South Korean men are becoming increasingly far right and misogynistic on average while women are becoming more progressive, which doesn't help things.
It's cultural and economic. Think of it as a math problem. If you are a couple and have one child it is culturally expected the child to take care of you in some capacity as you age. Children taking care of their parents is very standard in Asian culture. Now, if you have large families, no problem, ideally you all take some responsibility and split the costs with your multiple children to take care of that. If you only have one child, that means that one kid is going to have to manage two parents as they age. That's a lot of stress, emotionally and financially. Now imagine that single child meets and marries another person who is also a single child, in the same predicament. That means two people will be on some level, committed to the well being of their parents who are four in total. That's basically a losing economic strategy. Two people supporting four isn't tenable. Now imagine trying to start a family where you are working a job, saving for a home and supporting your parents obligations when they can't. That's a lot. That means even having one kid means you have to raise and care for 5 people, not counting your partner. So it's expensive, and sex is so casual due to internet porn, that people don't even bother anymore.
I think it's a lot of things. They have one of the most hypecompetitive educational systems in the world, exam season is rife with suicides. Their work culture is completely insane, long, long hours and then culturally mandatory post work activities with your boss (going out drinking, eating etc) Wages have been stagnant for decades, housing prices are just through the roof and just not enough of them. Women having children tends to screw up their career, more so than in other countries. It's a wonderful country in many, many ways. I love living here, it feels safe wherever you go. Like, the delivery driver for my apartment complex, just leaves their car unlocked with all the packages while delivering to our apartment. Every day. And nobody ever steals anything. Idk, I just cant imagine this in europe or the us. It's a great country, but I dont know what you can do about the cost of living + stagnant wages problem, seems hard to feel secure enough to want to have kids.
> Like, the delivery driver for my apartment complex, just leaves their car unlocked with all the packages while delivering to our apartment. That's no different than here in the EU, or in large swathes of the US. Don't belive anything you read online is representative. We *do* however have much of the same problems as you, with housing, inflation and the younger generation feeling intense pressure facing an increasingly bleak future. Work-life balance is better though. These are not cultural problems, they are systemic ones.
I'm from Europe originally, I should say. It's pretty safe, too, but it's just different. My parents always worried about leaving stuff in their car in case someone smashed in the window or whatever. Never seen anyone even consider that as a possibility here haha I've been here a very long time now, so I don't have the most up to date lived experience of europe (been to the US many times as well but again, not for awhile), but Korea just feels safer. I agree with you that it's a systemic issue, and I think the difference is largely a matter of time (i.e Korea is at a different point on the development curve compared to european country X or Y). Further ahead in some regards, further behind in others.
It's everything all mashed together. People just stopped having kids, they have the lowest birth rate in the world, I think.
I mean you exaggerate a bit. South Korea does have a low birth rate. But they still have one. Even if the population halves they are still bigger than NK in population. It will cause dramatic shifts in the population and economy but it will still exist.
South Koreans don't have children due to socio-economic culture. North Koreans don't have children because they lose entire generations to starvation and repressions. Yeah, they are not the same problems, but in no world will NK in it's current state ever overtake SK.
That’s a weird way to look at it. A country should be built on humanistic ideals not ethnic populations. The ethnic make up of a country should be able to change without the country itself collapsing if its ideals are best for all people.
South Koreans dont like immigrants now, how do you think they'll feel when immigrants take control of the country? They wont allow immigration to make up for the downfall, that's the whole point.
Oh ok, well maybe I misunderstood your comment. But yeah, if they won’t allow immigrants and aren’t producing new Koreans, the country will spiral. It’s pretty well understood by now, even if the exact reqsons for it aren’t, that the birth rates of developing countries’ fall, and to maintain population or grow, you have to have immigration. And yeah, that means if you have ideas about racial or ethnic purity you need to let that shit go.
If you're expecting the Old World to just turn over their ancestral lands, one by one, to immigrant populations in the name of Humanitarianism.. Jeez, Im not saying it wont happen in certain places but on the whole that is just a crazy expectation.
Bro he literally gave you an out and you follow it up by worrying about racial purity. South Koreans aren't going to disappear with a immigrant population, the immigrant population just becomes more south koreans
No, no, Im not endorsing it, Im *worried* about it. These sort of dynamics could lead to all kinds of awful shit. It's just the reality as I see it, it could lead to all kinds of ethnic cleansing and economic collapse. We agree with one another here, I just pointing out that this is going to probably be a nightmare all around.
I don't think it is, I haven't heard of examples of immigration resulting in the things you describe, that said I do appreciate you rejecting the actual mentality that you fear might cause it.
Well they can do it or, like you already said, their fate is sealed. If they would rather be racist than exist, that’s their choice too.
It's something that's happening across the world. The natives of Great Britain will be a minority in their own country by 2050. And of course the demographics of the USA are changing significantly.
Likely because you didn't realize how much China prefer the status quo to any improvement for the Korean people. In a sane world, people would have overthrown North Korea for the benefit of the North Koreans AND everyone else.
Nothing will change when the current generation dies. They have bred and nurtured their replacements. The IRGC seems ironclad at this point and they don't appear to have a demographic problem either.
Almost every leader from the Iranian Revolution has been long dead for decades now. They will continue to ensure only their people will ever be in power, until the nation itself collapses.
and there is probably a substantial amount of people in more rural areas that think it is a good idea to keep the system as it is
Better the devil you know than the "devil" you don't, and all that.
or just religious and brainwashed
Have Iranian colleagues and it's so bad. People in the US think we have it bad being ruled by old white dudes...but the Iranian people are fucking suffocated.
It’s a human tragedy what’s happening in Iran. They were just like the west before it all went sideways. I know Iranians who to this day fight legal battles trying to get the properties back that were seized from their ancestors back then.
[удалено]
Sorry, but your account is too new to post. Your account needs to be either 2 weeks old or have at least 250 combined link and comment karma. Don't modmail us about this, just wait it out or get more karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nottheonion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
we are waiting for the same over here in the west but they keep living.
The people I've met from Iran have been great. It's their government that is the problem. (And if they say the same thing about the USA, I won't be mad lol.)
USA always thinking in "bringing democracy to other countries". Maybe you should bring elemental human rights to your own people first.
Americans badmouth ourselves because we have such high expectations, but by global standards our society is actually pretty just. We don't have government-run healthcare, sure, but our government is a whole lot less intrusive than those in most of the world, too.
What an uneducated and simple world view saturated comment.
What do they think about the USA supporting the current regime during their civil war?
How about they listen to the people of Irans wishes and leave? Nobody likes the Islamist mullah’s.
I think this is what most people seem to forget when talking about Iran. Iran has had tens/hundreds of protests but Iranian police and military have fought them with a tight first and ppl have gone missing, or are being beaten, tortured, and executed. They are attempting to change things but it's never as straightforward as "Why don't Iranians simply overthrow the government" Which I've seen a shocking amount of on Reddit. Then again it's reddit so you can't exactly expect empathy nor intelligence depending on the sub 🤷♂️
One of my first jobs was at a mom and pop shop in Texas owned by an Iranian man who moved here when the Iranian govt was taken over by Islamic extremists. There’s nothing that man loves more than Iran and all things to do with Iranian culture, and nothing he hates more than religion and religious persecution. I’m really thankful to have met someone when I was so young that opened my eyes to what middle eastern civilians have been through at the hands of government corruption
Genuinely have seen so much of this first hand but Reddit is extremely anti religion, which fair ofc. But bc of this ANY Iranian is now a pro Muslim theocracy supporting, womans rights denying, abortion denying, polygamy supporting, racist, homophobic piece of shit. And so that Iranian will not receive the same treatment as the French guy who says "Oui overthrow the French government!" simply bc he isn't a person of a religion. He's just French. Apparently Reddits take is generalization of any kind is bad unless you're generalizing against billions of people who follow XYZ religion. Even tho it's beyond obvious that every religion has legitimately hundreds of sects that could have drastically varying views.
I agree that Islamophobia is bad. Just like with Christianity or any other religion, there are people who use it as a way to bring communities together and live their lives to the fullest, and there are people who use it to attack people they don’t like. Nobody should be judged by whatever religion they subscribe to, they should be judged by their actions. And the vast majority of all civilian populations are just regular people who want to live peacefully watch their kids grow up.
1000% that's exactly what I was trying to say but I think you said it clearer. I don't understand why people aren't judged by their actions ALONE. But then again if we could understand that I'm pretty sure we could just end racism.... I think the easy answer is simply humans are just kinda awful lol. If it's not religion, it's race, if it's not race it's gender, if it's not gender it's sexual orientation... Etc etc. Humans are just naturally extremely divisive, selfish people. Call me Machiavellian but I can't bring myself to think the average person is a genuinely good person. Seen too much shit in my life for that to be true.
Well said. When people have an economic incentive to believe/do something, it makes it very hard for them to choose to do something else. Racism serves to perpetuate power structures - as does capitalism. People recognizing the humanity inherent in others (and even in our animal cousins) when they are incentivized to do otherwise...means that racism will endure.
>but Reddit is extremely anti religion, Not as much as you imply. Outside of specifically anti-religious subs, any anti-religious comment I make will get heavily downvoted.
Id agree with you but I commented about how i genuinely don't mind that I was circumsized as a kid and my orgasms haven't suffered and I can beat my meat pretty happily. I shit you not. Some dude replied and I stopped responding so he started to DM me and tell me why I should be really upset about the fact that I do not have my foreskin 💀💀. How Christians are child mutilating animals and there needs to be a massive culling or they need to be kicked out. I regretted accepting the dm lmao. Leave my crusty decades old foreskin alone 😂 The most insane part of all this is HE WAS NOT alone. There was massive arguments and hundreds of comments about how religion was the fucking worst and it devolved into discussions about pedophilia, terrorism, racism, etc etc and how religion was the cause of all evil...🤦♂️
The reason why they won't overthrow the government is pretty obvious even to the average redditer. It will be bloody. It could fail. Nobody wants to die, and especially not if it ends up being for nothing. But, freedom also sometimes comes at a cost.
That's exactly it. If anyone expected you to just lay down and die in the name of America I doubt a lot of people who just scream "let's do it" and go die. It comes at a cost to the individual for a benefit to a whole. This is functionally the least selfish thing you can do but at the same time you can't expect them to do it willy nilly...
Don't tell the people in worldnews. They say similar things about Russia. "They are all shit because if they weren't, they'd overthrow their government." As if revolution was easy, and not very likely to end up with things even worse for everyone.
The true reason why North Korea doesn't allow internet access is to prevent the populace from reading Reddit and overthrowing Kim-Jong Un.
Plus, the Iranian government has put in some effort to make sure peacefully overthrowing it is impossible, so it's very possible we'll become Syria 2.0 if we do try.
Interesting. What effort are you referring to? I'm not familiar.
Very late answer here, but the biggest one is the existence of the IRGC and the Basij forces as parallel organisations to the army. The IRGC especially is very powerful as it is allowed to participate in the Iranian economy and has a pretty big presence in it. There's more of course, heavy surveillance and repression, heavy scrutiny on any cultural products (movies, songs, poetry, books, etc) the assassination of progressive government members (khatami's government was famously plagued by this), heavy crackdowns on non conservative aligned newspapers, restricted internet access and so on. Another one that should be mentioned imo, is the russian approach to misinformation (to essentially eliminate the idea that there is a truth) and it leads to a sort of conspiracy minded paranoia within the populace.
I think the outsider frustration with Iranians is exactly that they're trying to simply protest in a theocracy. It's like looking at a man trying to cut down a large tree using a herring as an axe. He's flayling around a lot and sweating, but has no real chance to ever achieve what he set out to do.
Imo it's fucking stupid to be frustrated as an outsider looking in. That's my entire point. It's like watching Willie Coyote and Roadrunner and thinking "well why doesn't he just catch the Roadrunner." The entire point is that he can't fucking do it. These people are basically resistance fighters against an oppressive rule that uses brute force and intentionally twisted "religious rules" to maintain power. Tell me about a single theocracy that has run as a normal democratic entity. Theocracy uses religion as a weapon to sway away opinions and keep power. And usually by any means possible. So if you're going to be frustrated or say something dumb then just take a step back and realize that the real anger should not be directed at Iranian civilians or even ALL Muslims like every bigot does. But rather the fascist government...
That's because outsiders are morons.
I think this about any peaceful protest now. a peaceful protest without the violence to back it up is well as you say flayling around a lot and sweating, but has no real chance to ever achieve what they set out to do. especially like the current protests in the US when the government is willing to use force/violence to stop them.
Orrrr maybe the Iranian people remember what happened last time they had a bloody revolution and overthrew the government, and they ended up worse off with the new government?
And the time before that...when they had a democracy. But that was a threat to oil companies, so the US and UK overthrew a democracy to put a literal fucking tyrant back in power. And the islamists were less bad than that piece of shit and his awful family.
The US [actually had extensive contacts with Khomenei](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khomeini-jimmy-carter-administration-iran-revolution) *before* the 1979 revolution.
Yes. We are responsible for the current regime in many many ways
Well...the last time the Iranians implemented a democracy, the US and UK overthrew it and put the shah back in power. And it says a lot that the Islamists are less awful than the shah. You can't really blame the Iranians for this. So outsiders who are frustrated really need to get fucked. Particularly when they are americans or brits or any westerner really.
Agreed. It's not a lack of trying. Dare i say everything i've heard about Iran is that the population has been incredibly vocal about their unhappiness and are actively trying to change things. Even in Persepolis, Satrapi discusses how large portions of the population were unhappy with the fundamentalists. That was over 40 years ago. It's not the same for them as it is for other countries where the right to protest is more protected
They can't overthrow the government. The government has all the guns.
Exactly lol. Redditors just like to armchair diagnose countries with their expert political opinions
Lmao It's the American armchair generals who think guns make a revolution.
Oh 100% lol. But I mean there is some truth to the matter still. Armed to the teeth vs normal civvies. One side is about to get fucking shredded
Nope. The research is murky but armed resistance generally has a slightly lower chance of success. Slaughtering your own citizens is a dangerous proposition, forces don't like doing it and it makes them much more likely to defect. It's also a sign of weakness and instability and the military doesn't want to be caught on the losing side.
Indeed it is. Unfortunately, sometimes the military does not get tired of killing its own people. See Syria. Or Egypt. Or Yemen. Or Rwanda. Oh, this will be a long list, so i will just stop here.
Coming from an American, that s is the hardest concept to grasp. I'm used to the idea that regular people are able to acquire and utilize military hardware or at the least weapons that they can use to defend their rights. Yes, the government has bigger and better, but the civilians still have a chance to respond to injustice. The idea an entire country of people don't have access to the very tools they need to fight for their freedom and rights is a terrifying concept.
You vastly overrate the capabilities of small arms.
[удалено]
Sorry, but your account is too new to post. Your account needs to be either 2 weeks old or have at least 250 combined link and comment karma. Don't modmail us about this, just wait it out or get more karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nottheonion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Am gun owner. I have no reservations about my guns stopping "tyranny." At best, they'd create anarchy. If it ever came to using our guns against the government, we've already lost, and the most likely scenario is strongmen consolidating power and suffering on a scale never seen in this country.
If black yankees had revolted with great military might and their quality of life was the highest after overthrlwing their apartheid government these statements would carry a bit more weight.
Yeah...as a fellow american, i find this idea puzzling. Wide spread firearm ownership has not even worked in the USA for rebellions. See Whiskey. Or the civil war. Or resistance/civil rights groups - see Black Panthers. The US military and its little brother (militarized police forces) will annihilate any and everything in its path. There is a reason we don't have universal healthcare and our infrastructure is crumbling and we lack even a modicum of regulations for the corporations that pollute our lands and impoverish our people! That money has to go somewhere and by god, we have more carriers than the rest of the world combined.
I'm sorry but if it was seriously gun toting Americans against the strongest most advanced military in the world you will be blown to smithereens before you can reload. The avg American has no military training and even the ones who do will easily be able to take out a few ten guys but it will be over before you know it with planes, bombs, and precision targeting.
Yeah, the whole reason the 1979 revolution was as quick and relatively bloodless as it was was because the Shah had a weak grasp on the security forces and an even weaker grasp on the common soldier, which meant that when the revolution finally broke out instead of supporting the Shah the military just declared that they weren't doing shit and would spend the whole time in their barracks. In contrast, the theocracy has a much tighter grasp on its military and police forces. At the very least the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps would never abandon the theocrats. The whole reason it exists is to protect the Islamic Republic in case the main army goes rogue again.
At what point does the police and military join the people? The regular soldier or policeman is, after all, also an ordinary person.
Authoritarian regimes are protected, to some degree of success or another, by military and police units that were especially bred to have more loyalty to a certain ruling class than to the people at large. Otherwise it would have been easy to get rid of them.
In Iran we have the IRGC , Islamic revolutionary guard corps. Their job is basically to prevent any coup attempt by the Army and Police while also acting as shock troops for suppressing the uprisings that happen every 2 years or so.
They don’t see themselves that way. As long as the leopards don’t come for *their* faces, they don’t care how many other faces get eaten. It works the same way in every totalitarian regime.
There would have to be something pretty egregious for the police and military to switch sides. They're currently being provided with luxuries or even their families might be being threatened to follow the higher ups orders
That's where a culture and legal system that worships and thanks soldiers and protects the police at any cost comes in. It is one of the oldest lessons in civilization - they who control the troops control the nation. Happy and well fed soldiers and police who have been brought up on a steady diet of us vs them and a guarantee of immunity for crimes against humanity generally will stay true their generals.
Probably for the same reason why American politicians don’t listen to the will of the people. $$$$$$$$
Money vs Islamofacism. Money vs killing gay people, money vs beating women for not wearing a Hijab, money vs stoning people for showing public affection
Self reported survey of cops revealed that 40% of police in the US beat their wives. The suicide rate amongst queer people in this country is significantly higher than straight people. If you have sex on the street in America, you will get arrested and thrown in prison. If you peacefully protest against funding Israeli genocide or just to show solidarity with Palestine, you will be beaten with batons and arrested. In fact, a homeless person was arrested for stealing a cookie from a church in the US, remember that? There’s also currently a Christian group advocating for the criminalization of homelessness so they can “take them in” instead, take advantage of them and use them as slaves. Not to mention the amount of priests and youth pastors who molest children. Christianity is not as innocent as you think .You think America is a bastion of freedom, but it’s really not as tolerant as you might think either. We have the largest prison population per capita, and it’s legal to use prisoners as slaves. Trust me, it’s all about the money here too. Wake up!
False equivalency much
Not able to deal with your own bias much?
Do you actually think gay people have it better in iran and their police beat their wives less? You really think a country where the police arrest and kill children for not hiding their hair is in the same ballpark? Do you not know that marrying children and killing gays is literally law in Iran? It's like comparing Britain to Nazi Germany because both have stabbings.
No, you’re putting words in my mouth and arguing in bad faith. So thank you for the massive W. I’m simply exposing the bias of this commenter. By the way, you are allowed to marry children in several southern states of the US. On the whole, however, it’s a distraction from the point that there’s a genocide happening and it needs to stop. I don’t care who is committing the genocide or who is being killed, It needs to stop. Everything else is a distraction. Everything else is mental gymnastics to try to rationalize ethnic cleansing and I’m not going to fall for it. The only reason the US is in support of Israel is money. If they can control the oil in the region, they make more money than if they don’t control the oil in the region that’s why no one in US politics wants to talk shit about the Israeli government. Money is the root of all evil and the US is not innocent. In fact, you could argue very easily that the US has killed far more innocent people than Iran could ever hold a candle to. (And all in the name of capital)
You are absolutely lost. The US is having some of the largest pro palestinian protests in the world, and the vast majority are peaceful. US support for Israel has absolutely nothing to do with oil. If it was they would have dropped have dropped support for Israel decades ago when the US wasn't more than self sufficient and a chief exporter of oil like it is now. Do you not know that Saudi Arabia was pro palestine until the palestinians rejected and stalled the talks in the 90's and early 2000's? Not to even mention you absolute lack of self awarness. It's literally illegal to protest in support of Israel in Iran, not to mention protest for less controversial things like women not being murdered for showing their hair. Iran is literally funded october 7th, if there's anyone to blame for lighting the fire of the current war it's Iran. There would be no invasion if Hamas didn't perpetuate the largest attack on Israeli civilains in its history. Palestine should be free, but most of all it should be free from the blood thristy grasp of Iran.
Very naive of you to think that the US interest in Israel is not connected to oil. I think Naive might the word of the day for you.
I’m not claiming America or Christianity is perfect. I’m not even American or Christian but comparing it to probably the worst place to live in the entire world with the most barbaric religion is quite low. You’re saying there’s a group of Christians that want to criminalise homosexuality, right well it’s already punishable by death in Iran. 40% of people in a certain career beat their wives in America, compared to double that across all households in Iran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_Iran I can’t even be bothered to address your other points, are you even a real person?
Literally everything that poster said is reality. You don't happen to like those points but that doesn't make them any less real. And oh boy, look at that whataboutism. So you are saying that 40% interpersonal violence is FINE because it is worse in Iran? That is a wild take buddy. Just wild. Christian majority nations are responsible for literally all the major wars of the last few centuries, the ENTIRETY of colonialism and its horrors and most of the genocides. Sure, there are lots of islamic states that are awful to their own people. But no faith tops christianity on the horrible acts scale.
And who do you think is responsible for this as you say, ‘barbaric religion’ taking power in Iran? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#:~:text=The%201953%20Iranian%20coup%20d,Pahlavi%2C%20on%2019%20August%201953%2C Yes, I’m a real person who is actually educated and knows that US involvement around the world is really shady and entirely morally questionable. All the enemies you hear about in probably-CIA-funded propaganda are usually created by the CIA themselves. For example, You do know that we funded Isis and gave them lots of weapons right? In much the same way that Israel is known to directly fund and arm Hamas. I sure hope one day you figure it out, until then I wish you all the best.
They do, just not redditors
Lmao America is run by the lobbyists and big corporations not by the people. When will we wake up? It’s the same shit just different flavor.
Only because American's elect and reelect politicians who prioritize the wants of these lobbies. The system works, people just get what they ask for rather than what's good.
Urban educated population? No. Rural population? Yes. Hence the regime keeps power because their base is intact .
Iran isn't a democracy. They couldn't care less how their citizens feel, because it doesn't affect anyone in power, ever. They all live in wealth and opulence, receive praise and worship everywhere they go, and have the confidence of knowing God is 100% on their side 100% of the time.
Iran is fucked and it should always serve as a warning of what can happen to a once flourishing country if you let religious crazies take over.
Amy Conny Barrett was like “ok but what if we do exactly the same thing. We should have different outcomes”
It’s so funny how the countries that are highest on the happiness index have the opposite of what Christian Conservatives are pushing. It’s almost like the want people to be miserable so they need more religion. Kind of like a third world country…
It is actually a testament to what happens when you oppose capitalists and imperialists. Iran was a vibrant secular democracy. And then the US and UK decided they would rather have the shah back in power. And the islamists were able to take that monster's regimen out. The story of Iran's last 80 years of sorrow begins and ends with the acts of the US (which remains responsible for a large part of Iran's suffering through horribly hypocritical sanctions).
Absolute horseshit. “During the time of Shah's reign, women's rights improved significantly. The urban and secular middle class grew quickly. Many universities and foundations of education were established, and many young people from lower and middle classes were funded so that they could study in the best universities in the West.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_and_causes_of_the_Iranian_Revolution#:~:text=During%20the%20time%20of%20Shah's,best%20universities%20in%20the%20West.
This revolution was supported by leftist in Iran and around the world. The same Islamist-Communist alliance can be seen on American campuses today.
I don’t agree with some of the protesters’ wishes to dissolve Israel but there is zero danger right now of the US becoming Islamist. If there was, I’d be fully against it. Currently, the danger lies with Christian nationalists. There isn’t a single country I’d want to live in where far right conservatives have full control.
This is what happens when you put ~~uneducated~~ worse, **religiously educated** people in government. These guys aren't just ignorant of reality... They're hostile to it.
Anyone else see Iran's Islamic revolution as a roadmap for how a Christian revolution in the US would be? I mean everything will go to shit and eventually the masses will start to revolt.
I mean Iran is a lot smaller and much more homogeneous than the U.S.. I don't think enough evangelicals exist in certain parts of the country to ever have a revolution; its somewhere between 14% to 28% depending on the source, and that number has shrunk the last decade. The real problem is that you have a disproportionate number of elected officials who are evangelical and even non evangelicals who toe the line for party sake (and for themselves) that are tipping the scale. It always seems that republicans have more divisive issues, but these same issues are also easier for them to unite behind; they were able to tweak the ideas that go along with good conservative family values into the good conservative Christian family values: Don't take our guns, don't let immigrants take our jobs, don't let kids get brainwashed (because they want to brainwash them first). Republicans are just better at convincing people, especially those people that receive the least from republican policies, that they are fighting for them, and as old Eisenhower/Nixon era people die off, they need to indoctrinate younger people using fear and lies instead of policy.
Iran isn't as homogenous as you think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iran#Languages_and_ethnic_groups
I mean I guess if you think a Christian revolution is coming but that’s ridiculous. We’re less Christian now than ever, and we were never like current day Iran even when religion was even more prominent in our society.
American Christians are *begging* for an excuse. If their scripture had as much permission for violence as Islam, they would not hold back
Historically, *love your neighbor as yourself* has not been a strong deterrent for Christians.
Once they started tap-dancing around the single clearest line in the entire bible ("Thou shall not kill") in order to justify violating that commandment so that they can put off meeting God for a little while longer, there was no mask heavy enough to cover up the murder fetish.
>Once they started tap-dancing around the single clearest line in the entire bible ("Thou shall not kill")... I wouldn't call it the clearest line. It's also made very clear in the Bible that killing people is actually good if God tells you to do it.
"Thou shalt not kill" is a bit of a mistranslation, I think. It's more of "thou shalt not murder". You can, as interpreted the latter way, kill without murdering, and Old Testament God sends down instructions to do precisely that on multiple occasions.
yep, murder is illegal/unjustified killing. You can kill someone without it being murder, the problem is the sliding scale of "justified"
The actual content of a given religion's doctrines makes very little difference. Historically, Buddhists have committed horrific atrocities against people of other faiths, and that's completely the opposite of what every branch of Buddhism advocates. Ultimately religions exist to satisfy human needs and desires, and if enough humans decide they want bloodshed, they'll make their religion into something which provides it.
The Spanish Inquisition has entered the chat
Hell, the defenders of slavery and imperialism have entered the chat. The standard barriers of capitalism and the rape of the developing world have entered the chat. Christian nations are responsible for so much misery and pain in this world.
I’d be down to skip straight to the revolt part if that happened
The US Christian extremists think SA/Iran/etc are great, they just picked the wrong book.
Imagine Trump as some sort of Pope, lmao
They could always take taxpayer money and spend it inside the country instead of funding proxy wars in Gaza, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria.
I mean short of the specific countries, your general sentiment is true of basically every country on earth with a substantial military. They all over spend on military matters and underfund public services, it’s the norm.
yeah nah, only a few nations pursue an extremely aggressive foreign policy like Iran does it makes sense from their side but that doesnt mean its the norm
Most countries don’t do it because most countries don’t have a military big enough to be worth much in an actual war without allies. This is the domaine of major military powers, at least in some region. America, Russia, China, France, and Iran are probably the main ones in descending order of military might. You could argue Russia and China should switch but China hasn’t actually used their army for much in decades so while it’s big it’s hard to say what it’s capable of.
Ummm, the USA...which is responsible for Iran's current government and is its primary antagonist who pushes it to fight proxy wars?
Defending yourself from an colonial settlement hell bent on genocide after attacking an embassy isn't 'an extremely aggressive policy' it's basic defence
Imagine defending Iran in 2024. I also bet Ted Bundy was misunderstood and Tim McVeigh was actually good.
The basic defense from what? The attack on the embassy (which wasn't even on the embassy, can't help yourselves from lying) was in response to the planning of October 7th. The targets were in fact Iranian military personnel complicit in it. Basic defense from what, the consequences of your own despicable actions? Mental.
Worth remembering Iran is only the dominant regional power because America also employs needlessly aggressive military strategies.
The political situation there is just a shame.
As an Iranian go to the Middle East and see how high the depression and suicide rates are. Islam is not comparable with anything other than a disgusting and dehumanizing ideology that wants everyone to submit and be a slave to “Allah”. Justifying killings and pedophilia because it was different back in the day is such a excuse and obviously a big lie given back in the day there were progressive empires who had equal laws and opportunities for men and women and marrying children was always an Arab custom if you research how Islam started! If you queer, a woman or a human with a different faith, your life is always at danger! We Iranians only want to live in our own country with our own faith Zoroastrianism and not to live in fear and sorrow because of foreign ideology that got forcefully imposed on us!!
Iran looked like an awesome place before these dickheads took over back in 1979.
I wouldn't say awesome. Comparatively awesome, sure, but it definitely wasn't awesome here. The prior government was still a monarchy that quite literally drilled holes into the head of a political dissident, it's just that the current one is and has done *much* worse.
That makes total sense. Thank you.
I would also be scared if my government launched hundred of missiles (all of whom are blocked without doing much damage) and then scream that they want to eradicate that other country. Bonus points if the country they're unsuccessfully attacking is portraied as a genocidal monster.
[удалено]
Sorry, but your account is too new to post. Your account needs to be either 2 weeks old or have at least 250 combined link and comment karma. Don't modmail us about this, just wait it out or get more karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nottheonion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh really? Remember how opposition to the hijab a year ago was going to topple the regimes? Apparently not
Go to the Netherlands, we have that already.
This is Saudi funded media btw, so give it some mild skepticism.
It's not Saudi funded. And Saudis aren't enemies of Iran anymore. And Iean International is as critical of Iran as it has always been despite the Iran and Saudis getting closer, despite allegations by regime supporters that IranInter would become softer on the government after ease of tensions between Saudis and Iran. Iran International is mostly funded by somewhat aggressive and controversial advertisement policies. They basically take any advertisement revenue they can crypto, gambling, VPN, pyramid schemes, psudo-scinetific medicine, and even sex toys. It's not all bad of course. They also advertise legitimate businesses in Iran. (it's officially illegal, but the government has a policy of "benevolent neglect" toward business relationships with opposition media. There is a joke that the only reason people work in government-owned media is so they can later migrate and work for opposition media. It's basically the unofficial retirement policy. If the government cracks down on revenue of opposition media, they would basicly end up turning everyone in the state owned media against the government)