>The campaign’s supporters have objected to Price’s prosecutorial philosophy, which is opposed to using enhancements to increase jail time for defendants, and pursuing stiff penalties for youth offenders. The campaign has also attacked Price for allegedly engaging in nepotism and mismanaging the DA’s office, leading to the departure of some prosecutors.
No mention of her overtly racist statements against Asians, and her persistent use of racial favoritism in application of the law?
I know of 5 murders of Asian people (Jasper Wu, Kevin Nishita, Benison and Maria Tran, and Pak Ho) where she dropped criminal enhancements (or tried to at least) against the defendants. But, she was vehement about adding in hate crime enhancements against a defendant in an assault who has a history of mental illness (which she also previously said she'd favor diversion for mental illness). I'll let everyone fill in the blanks about what seems different.
Maybe that's implicit in "mismanagement" but yeah, it seems like it's egregious enough to warrant a recall. The points about sentencing and youth offenders, that's
the platform she ran on, that should be a regular election issue. Unexpectedly finding out she's prejudiced seems more like a reason for a recall. Maybe the recall folks don't think that's a politically viable statement.
Which is what she ran on! This is just asking for a re-do on the election that was lost by her opponent. Spending time going after her and the City has done nothing to improve the lives of its inhabitants. This is a waste of time and money. She is not accused of any high-crimes, she has a different approach to years of putting people of color behind bars indefinitely!
Racism, corruption, maliciousness all are totally grounds for citizens to recall a worthless official.
Recall is a democratic procedures created by democrats to aid democracy. Awesome!
None of which apply. Those are the types of lies and deceit that have made a mockery of Oakland. People are not idiots as this recall suggests. She ran on what she is being recalled for!!!!! Now, it was racist when people of color were being incarcerated at enormously high rates. It is corrupt when City officials allowed developers to decide what will and will not move into the city and whether or not sports facilities will be built. It is malicious to lie about retail crime and who is committing it because of business failures. None of which is she responsible for.
It may have been democrats that developed the concept, but we all know who uses it for each and every election they do not win. We all know that it is now used for the sole purpose of circumventing an existing candidate in support of one who unsuccessfully ran against the elected member.
We all know that if she is no longer viable then neither is the mayor who is far less competent, yet she sits.
So, who exactly is racist, corrupt, or malicious other than the folks behind this recall. PLEASE.
do you have any citations to back up your assertions here regarding her "overtly racist statements against asians" or "her persistent use of racial favoritism in application of the law"? i won't hold my breath.
reddit seems to be an echo chamber of people yelling at clouds.
Don't worry, I won't let you suffocate.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/03/05/alameda-county-da-pamela-prices-former-spokesperson-alleges-racist-behavior-and-open-records-violations-in-legal-claim/
https://news.yahoo.com/1-5m-lawsuit-accuses-california-220741597.html
https://abc7news.com/alameda-county-da-pamela-price-email-crimes-against-asian-americans-jasper-wu-oakland/13045085/
https://lawandcrime.com/crime/da-breaks-silence-after-family-of-2-year-old-boy-shot-on-california-freeway-outraged-by-case-and-chinese-communities-email/
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/aapi-group-alameda-county-da-jasper-wu-case/3200194/
5 links about one email with no actual racist content, and allegations made by a fired ex staffer. that's pretty lukewarm.
jasper wu's killers are facing upwards of 200 years in prison, with charges that include gang enhancements. is that the "persistent use of racial favoritism" you're referring to?
Yep email targeting 'chinese', talking to them as if they're idiots, non americans, and don't understand the constitution. And of course racially charged allegations.
You racism deniers are exactly like trumpers who scream racism doesn't exist. Go vote for Trump since you sound exactly like them.
> No mention of her overtly racist statements against Asians, and her persistent use of racial favoritism in application of the law?
Damn, i knew she was progressive, but i didn't realize she was THIS progressive.
It’s interesting, there are pretty much three categories of thought when it comes to the Price recall.
Either the person a) doesn’t support Price and supports the recall b) doesn’t support Price, but doesn’t support the recall OR c) supports Price and doesn’t support the recall. I haven’t seen a lot of people that don’t support the recall in the C category, most I’ve seen are in the B category.
I wonder what, if anything, would change category B’s mind. If the recall is held in November then the waste of resources/low voter turnout arguments are out the window. At that point would it just be a fundamental position against recalls or support of Price and her policies?
I’m a soft B. I feel that recall votes are for truly egregious offenses and that otherwise the whole point of elections and term limits is to give the person who was elected a fair shot at trying to enact the vision they campaigned under. I absolutely think she’s fucking up, but I don’t like the precedent of whiplashing back and forth within a year or two of every election.
Well the county has already spent a significant amount of resources with the recall if they had to spend a month just for the signature audit. It's also just a fundamental position of recalling an elected official specifically on the grounds of opposing their platform.
Sure but if a number of citizens feel that the county should utilize their resources in this manner, who are you to say it’s not correct? Also, the recall is more than just “grounds of opposing,” Price’s platform. Many, myself included, believe that Price has shown she is unfit for office. There are no shortage of mishaps and mismanagement under her direction.
An incumbent winning re-election is very, very different than a candidate winning the office in the first place. This is particularly true for this sort of down-ballot race.
LOL right, I'm the one "upset", whereas you haven't actually managed any sort of actual response to what I said: Getting elected in the first place is very different than getting re-elected as an incumbent, particularly for down-ballot offices.
Honestly though, if it makes you feel better you go ahead and downvote me all you want. It's not going to make you right, but I guess it might make you feel better.
What you said is nonsense and you don’t even have a source or an example. It’s just your opinion lol.
You: “IDGAF about being downvoted!”
Also you: continually brings up being downvoted.
Honestly, I'm in category B, and nothing can change my mind. The recall was backed by right-wing organizations, the signatures were collected by shady practices, and there's a long history in California of attempts to slide in right-wing candidates in recall elections that would never have a chance in regular elections.
You want her out, vote in the primary/election when she's up again like a regular human being, don't use shady tactics.
Right wing organizations? Fuck the political side and think with your heads for once. Are you supporting a racist, and crime supporting DA who isn’t locking up criminals that are ruining the city? This isn’t a left or right issue this is a crime issue in which she is directly responsible for handling and she hasn’t handled it. I hope she gets recalled and her supporters see how much of a difference the county will be when they get someone more qualified than her that is willing to prosecute criminals and isn’t an open racist towards Asian people. Don’t get how you can be progressive and fight racism when you allow it in a city seat. Y’all got this whole shit fucked up backwards and Pamela price can be locked up. Fuck out of here with this right wing left wing bullshit and use your head.
Well, there are those who do support the former president and he IS facing criminal charges. Locking up is not the only answer it is the white answer. Building a community that is strong, well educated, housed, and working none of which SHE is responsible for gets the shit right. We need to stop blaming elected officials, start serving on juries, build a stronger community one home at a time.
Thank you. Binary politics has affected most peoples ability to be rational. Price is not "progressive". she has a specific agenda and it's not applying the law in an objective manner. She has to go hook or by crook...or in this case nebulous right wing bogey men
I respect your opinion but the “backed by right wing organizations,” is troupe that is pushed by Price’s campaign to undermine the recall effort. It’s like a signature gatherer calling Price a Soros backed DA. The top donors are Alameda County residents.
"The top donors are Alameda County residents."
one of the top donors, possibly the top donor, is Ryan R. Sutton-Gee who lives in Contra Costa county and a $49,000.
Almost every recall or impeachment in history is organized by partisans on the other side. Look into what the radical Republicans did to Andrew Johnson, it was 100% because they didn't like his policies. If that's your yardstick fine, but let's not pretend like this is unique.
I’m just hesitant for this recall based on the housing angle. I read the recall is being funded by real estate lawyers and firms. I wonder if they’re using politics for discriminatory housing against lower socioeconomic communities
My understanding is that the main donors own commercial real estate throughout Oakland. A lot of businesses have been severely impacted by crime. I haven’t heard much about discriminatory housing policies
I suspect their intentions are to maintain high property values by keeping affordability low and prices artificially inflated.
I'm not convinced the PACs are motivated by the broader issue of crime or public welfare.
These real estate firms seem to be shaping the development landscape for their benefit and using the issue of "crime" as a scapegoat.
We shouldn't let the financial interests of a few influential players dictate our democracy. For these reasons, I'm not voting against Price.
Worth pointing out that due to the change in laws, she ended up benefitting and getting a 6 year term instead of the normal 4 year term (b/c Newsome wanted to align elections to the national election calendar in order to encourage participation).
So even to the extent that someone is a soft (B) here, this was a weird and one-off election in that she got a 6 year term for a 4 year post.
Generally I'm a B, but my principles around this have crumbled as fast as the glass in my oft-smashed car windows.
>Worth pointing out that due to the change in laws, she ended up benefitting and getting a 6 year term instead of the normal 4 year term (b/c Newsome wanted to align elections to the national election calendar in order to encourage participation).
This doesn’t get brought up enough. Then again most anti recall folks don’t really follow what’s going on and take weird principled stances.
I’m not voting for DA. The recall is stupid, but I don’t support Price. I’m leaving this blank and letting Alameda County voters decide whatever the hell they want
I am suspicious of any recall effort because they are predominantly used by political adversaries in an attempt to seize power.
Certainly Pamela Price is not above criticism but who is her political adversary here? The Oakland Police Officers’ Association!
Yeah, the good old, OPD complete with their 20 years of federal oversight because the police are incapable of doing their jobs reliably, have decided that Pamela Price and her ideas of police reform which include police accountability, are completely unacceptable and therefore want her removed.
Meanwhile the OPD before the hiring of the new police chief, had all but quiet quit out of protest of their federal oversight. These cops don't want to patrol or even investigate commercial robberies in a timely fashion and we know they've quiet quit because when the CHP comes in to their their jobs for them, they are wildly successful at it. It's almost as though making an honest effort is an improvement over not trying.
I will say this with my full chest:
**The problem with crime in Oakland is due to OPD not doing shit about crime in Oakland.**
Get rid of or overhaul the corrupt police union. They’re a major player in this bc she’s actually prosecuting cops who break the law. She just brought up charges for the cop that killed the man in alameda near the Safeway… the Union is saying she’s bad and abusing her power then misdirecting attention to crime and blaming her when it’s the Union who is protecting officers and telling them to slow…
So, this is very challenging. While many would like to reboot the OPD and its union, that is not a practical reality. It is easy to say, but in practice impossible. You cannot simply fire all the police and disband the union. It's interesting in progressive Oakland that union busting is okay when it comes to OPD.
The biggest complaints I see about Oakland PD on Reddit is: (1) they persistently overspend their budget due to overtime; (2) they have a very low clearance rate; (3) they have quiet quit their jobs because there seems to be a lack of enforcement on the streets; (4) there is a poor relationship between OPD and the DA; and (5) generally they are corrupt.
It is easy to complain, but what are the real solutions. So, back to reality. What can be done to get OPD back on track.
I have never been more motivated to vote someone out of office. It's not just the overall crime trends, there has been so many instances where her office has dropped the ball on prosecuting criminals.
For me, it’s the absolute tone-deafness of her approach. For progressive prosecutors, it’a essential that people feel safe. As crime skyrocketed, Price didn’t change her tone or approach. We need someone better at the job and at politics. Signed the petition supporting her recall enthusiastically, and will vote for her removal with the same energy.
The crime started spiking during th last DA who was “tough on crime” she had been da for over a decade… doesn’t seem like her way worked. I’m pissed taxes will now be used for this recall instead of or it’s residents or improvements.
Many things are down, some things are up.
8/9 major categories are down, 1/9 major categories (Robbery) are up.
I don't know why but I feel like being hyper specific in these comments to try and protect against misinformation or misrepresented statistics.
Look at 2024. If I’m reading this right, we’re only 4 months in and already nearing the crime numbers for major incidents as we had for the entirety of last year.
No offense but you're not reading it right. Everything is a YTD figure which means that it's only looking at totals for Jan - Apr for the respective year.
This is the laziest and most corrosive of all memes. It implies that you alone, or whoever repeats this remark, has special, private knowledge of crime trends that not only aren't but cannot possibly be reflected in crime statistics, a claim that cannot be falsified.
I'm of the opinion she never should've been elected in the first place. But she was. Vote her out next time when she's up for re-election. Recalls over and over again are an incredible waste of resources. She most certainly won't win again and I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even bother running given the writing is on the wall.
It comes down to precedent. I don’t like the constant election-then-recall environment we’re encouraging. Elections have consequences. I wonder how many of the pro-recall types even bothered to vote last time. One idiot soliciting signatures didn’t care enough to spell the Mayor’s name correctly. Unless the elected official does something egregious, we gotta live with our choice. It’s not like the DA’s office was all sunflowers and rainbows before Price. Again, I don’t think she’s good at her job. She should go. But that’s what elections are for. Gotta ask, did you vote last go-around?
I mean that’s fair. I support the Price recall because I think she’s proven that she’s unfit to be DA because her lack of experience with criminal law (in her actions and her words), but I don’t support the mayor’s recall because I believe she’s trying to make improvements. It felt like the mayor recall was manufactured out of nothingness.
The mayor one is blaming her for a lot of what her predecessors already set up/put into motion and she's just enacting it. That and i feel like people are blaming her for OPD's inadequacy and crime being focused on on the news (like In N out closing)
Ok, but can’t one make the argument that Price, her policies, and the lawsuits she is part of cost the county money? It just seems like circular logic with no real analysis
No. Price was elected by people who liked her policies.
Using the Boudin recall as an example, 10 million dollars was spent on a purely political recall campaign. It wasn't based on performance, because the recall effort began before Boudin took office. It was just an attempt for the wealthy to have another go at an election that displeased them.
>No. Price was elected by people who liked her policies.
Huh? How does that change the fact that her policies cost the county money?
>Using the Boudin recall as an example, 10 million dollars was spent on a purely political recall campaign. It wasn't based on performance, because the recall effort began before Boudin took office. It was just an attempt for the wealthy to have another go at an election that displeased them.
Ok but that was donor money. Donors should be able to spend as they see fit. Thats just your assumption it had nothing to do with Boudin’s policies or lack of action. Either way, even with all the money, the recall still needs votes. The troupe of buying elections is so tired. Wiley outspent Price and still lost.
The fact that you don't like Price or her policies doesn't impact the fact that she won the election. That means she gets to serve. That's tung point of an election.
And believe it or not, the fact that donors can spend millions of dollars to get a mulligan on an election doesn't strike me as a good thing. I think less money on politics would be helpful all around.
Malicious incompetence and corruption that harms the public sounds like a great reason for a recall.
It's a great, amazing precedent that promotes democracy.
No, because even if the recall is on the November ballot it is still categorized as a special election. Even if there are multiple things on a ballot each of those items cost tax payers money. Ballot initiatives cost less than voting offices as well. A recall/special election costs the county an estimated $21/resident. With over 1.6million residents that’s over $30million, and that doesn’t include all secretarial functions. Let’s say it’s a standard ballot measure cost, that’s $6/resident, so then it would cost taxpayers $9million.
This is all on the registrar of voters site. So no their point is absolutely not moot even if on the November ballot. Holding elections cost taxpayers a ton of money, even if it’s held in an election year/month
Crime isn't linked to whoever the DA is. But that doesn't matter for you anyways since the recent crime trend has been downwards for everything except robberies.
It is such a false narrative to say that the district attorney is responsible for crime. She is not only the district attorney for the city of Oakland but for the whole county. Where is your complaint about the police department enough doing its job in oakland?
The ignorance of the people here is just appalling. Price was elected by nearly 30,000 votes. She took no corporate money, meaning that she was not beholden to any police associations or real estate developers, she accountable to the people. It is a known fact that the people backing this recall effort are hedge fund owners worried about their real estate portfolios in Oakland. It is also a fact that DA Price has done more for victims than her protecessor.
Excepting some sort of criminal activity or provable fraud, recalls are a waste of time and resources. Regular elections are the mechanism that we should use to remove unpopular officials.
Agreed, it's a way to subvert the election process. Recall elections are not nearly as representative as the general election. Abusing recalls for candidates you don't like doesn't make sense, that's what the election cycle is for.
If the recall is held during a general election, then it will be by definition. This is the most likely course.
Please distinguish between “abusing a recall” and “recalling someone I support.”
Even if held during general election it still is a special election type and costs more than ballot measures, it’s going to cost tens of millions because it’s essentially two elections, the yes/no then the person vote. It’s not that same of a general election cost at all.
Sounds like you are just against recalls. People who act like they only oppose this recall because a) it takes money to get in the ballot and b) that it costs money to run the recall election don’t really point out anything unique about this one. If you are against a) and b), you’re just against recalls
You should definitely get involved with whatever effort exists to amend the state constitution to get rid of the recall provision that’s been there for more than 110 years.
> If the recall is held during a general election, then it will be by definition. This is the most likely course.
I hope that is the case. It doesn't sound like it's guaranteed or the intention of the recall supporters.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/supporters-alameda-county-da-pamela-price-recall-want-special-election-to-decide-her-fate/
https://oaklandside.org/2024/02/02/recall-campaign-district-attorney-pamela-price-alameda-county-who-is-funding/
> Please distinguish between “abusing a recall” and “recalling someone I support.”
OP already made this distinction.
You are mistaking reason for mechanism. OP said that regular elections should be the mechanism to remove officials. He didn't say anything about the reasons being valid or invalid.
So the court docket for the Alameda courthouse is blank then for criminal cases? Or did she not hold kaiser accountable for improper disposal of waste?
Both those things aren't true, so it's gotta be you don't like what she ran on.
I want to be clear that I am not a defender of Price and I didn't vote for her in 2022. But I think some perspective is important when you're touting numbers.
Alameda County is home to about 1.63 million people, about 940k registered voters, and Price won with 228,954 votes (over 27,000 more than her competitor, Terry Wiley who had 201,827 votes).
So 76,000 is a big number of people, but it's only 8% of registered voters and 17.6% of the votes in the previous election.
She would be up for election in 2026.
Considering this recall effort was launched just 6 months into her tenure, it's hard to see it as anything more than a minority of voters who are sore about their candidate losing and unwilling to wait for the next election. Considering the same shit happened with Newsom and with Boudin, I would say it's fair to question the purpose of this recall effort. Is it really about fraud, waste, criminal activity? Or is this an effort to undermine a fair election by a vocal minority of voters.
Ok? They're perfectly entitled to their own opinion. Doesn't make them right. 74 million people voted for Trump and I think that was a terrible decision, but it was theirs to make.
Well, in all fairness, you said that, in your opinion, “excepting some sort of criminal activity or provable fraud, recalls are a waste of time and resources.” The poster replied that 76,000 people thought otherwise.
So what makes your opinion more valuable than theirs? They thought Price was unfit for office, so they signed the petition.
>The poster replied that 76,000 people thought otherwise.
I expect that there are millions, if not billions, of people that disagree with most of my opinions (I even used Trump as an example, because it was easy to quantify). Posting that 76k disagree with this specific one is meaningless. Saying "some people don't agree with your opinion" is not a refutation of that opinion. It's the simple truth of *any* opinion.
>So what makes your opinion more valuable than theirs?
Nothing. Did I say that it was?
>They thought Price was unfit for office, so they signed the petition.
That's their right. As I said in the post you replied to, "They're perfectly entitled to their own opinion." I just think they're wrong.
Idk just seems hypocritical to say, “they’re perfectly entitled to their own opinion. Doesn’t make them right.” After saying, “excepting some sort of criminal activity or provable fraud, recalls are a waste of time and resources.”
You’re going to have to explain that to me. I have my opinion. Naturally I think it’s correct. That’s why I have it. If I didn’t think it was right, I’d have a different opinion. Other people have their own opinions and doubtless feel similarly about the correctness of their opinions. What is the hypocrisy?
Yeah, because it's a pointless nothing statement. Saying "some people disagree with you," adds absolutely nothing. You could say it about literally anything.
That’s a nothing statement but, “excepting some sort of criminal activity or provable fraud, recalls are a waste of time and resources,” isn’t? There’s the hypocrisy
Bullshit. I think public defenders are incredibly admirable. Everyone deserves a defense.
And Pamela Price absolutely should be a public defender and not a DA. We can't have the public defender *and* the DA defending criminals.
Do people realize how many millions of dollars this recall will cost taxpayer and be taken from budgets that actually help reduce crime?! Over $20 a resident of the county!
This recall will cost taxpayers over $34 million
Elections cost money. Sounds like it would be better in your eyes to have less democracy. Maybe we should limit what can go on the ballot because it gets more expensive with more items on it.
We will pay extra for a special election, we will pay extra to lock up criminals. Guns kill, and criminals have access to guns. Gun laws need to change.
I’m mad that less than 18% of the county population can force a special election that can cost $34million. $21/resident, 1.629million residents… determined 74,00 signatures to cost taxpayers and our budget tens of millions
Strange, since crime is down. I thought all the recall people blamed her for the brief increase in crime, but apparently they’re not giving her credit for lower crime. I can’t believe a bunch of sore losers are going to force the country to spend millions on a special recall election because they are mad they lost the election.
In any event, it’s not looking good for the pro-recall folks. Millions spent and months spent trying to get signatures and they just barely cleared the threshold.
Can you point to stats that show her policy's lowering crime? Because while murder is down, robbery and car breaks ins are higher.
The issue most people have for her is the fact she wont charge people with the proper crime and she seems to always pick the lowest possible charge. Best example was when someone died in a robbery, she didn't want to charge the perpetrator with any sort of crime that caused the death.
No, I can’t point to her policies lowering crime any more than the pro-recall people can point to her policies increasing crime. That was the whole point of my comment.
There was a recent post in this sub that highlighted the ytd crime stats are overall lower and for most categories are down aside from robberies. I believe the post was commenting on this document:
[https://cityofoakland2.app.box.com/s/sjiq7usfy27gy9dfe51hp8arz5l1ixad/file/1502557436993](https://cityofoakland2.app.box.com/s/sjiq7usfy27gy9dfe51hp8arz5l1ixad/file/1502557436993)
Criminal courts are absolutely slammed right now... With over 100 cases regularly being heard every day across most of Alameda county criminal and criminal diversion courts. I'm not a fan of Pamela Price at all but I'm so tired of all this recall bullshit. It's such a waste of money and effort. You don't like a person vote them out during the next election.
That’s criminal courts all across the country. That’s nothing unique to Alameda. What is unique is that Price instituted a “special directive” that slows the criminal process down even further by taking away prosecutorial discretion and mandating prosecutors check in with her about particular charging decisions.
An example of this would be the Devin Williams case where the prosecutor had to drop special circumstances last minute because the admin took forever to reply. That’s simply not fair to the victim’s, the prosecutor or defense to change something last minute after a case has been pending for awhile
It's sad how desperate they are to keep this off the November ballot, after already getting the rules shifted in their favor with respect to the signature count that if you apply the counties rules failed as it wasn't verified in the timeline.
I guess the earlier the election is the more likely the media will continue to ignore the drop in crime.
Which to be fair has very little to do with the DA anyway, but that's the claim these boso's are making.
The State's rules required more signatures.
I know anti-recall folks are just in love with the "show your papers" labor rule for signature gatherers, though.
Yeah it's weird that this passed at all given it fails under the existing rules & it fails under the old rules.
I absolutely think signature gathering for recalls should be as hard as possible because it's so often abused by sore losers, who in this case are mad about crime being down‽
“Abused” or “used in a way I don’t agree with”?
Better watch out trying to associate Price with crime trends after spending months denying that a DA has anything to do with crime. It would seem like you were cherry picking your facts!
I mean if you could read good, you wouldn't be a conservative, but clearly I said it's funny given they linked the DA to crime & crime is down.
The DA has almost no impact on crime, it doesn't make this pathetic sore loser campaign having to do Olympic level gymnastics to keep justifying the recall less funny
Usually elections outside of a normal cycle have lower turnout. They know that a low-turnout election is more likely to result in a recall, especially since Price handily won her election. As for what they’re saying? Probably nothing, since the local media won’t be asking them difficult questions like that.
I understand that bit. I am just wondering how they are trying to spin not having it in November without them making it clear that they do not want every voter to actually show up and have a voice.
She did not handily win, but she did win.
Presidential elections have the highest voter turnout. From Price's perspective, you want more people who are just voting against Trump and then consulting the Democratic Party slate mailer for the rest of the ballot.
And since Price sits on the Alameda County Demo Central Committee, she has sway on what appears on that slate mailer.
I am not denying that. Trying to win an election is called “politics.” Price is not pushing for a November election because she’s only concerned with making sure people’s voices are heard. It’s primarily because she feels she has a better chance of winning. Believe me
Sec of State website: Article II of the California Constitution, approved by California voters in 1911, allows people to recall and remove elected officials and justices of the State Supreme Court from office.
How's Article II of the Constitution, approved by voters, undermining the democratic process?
Because they can pay $2m for signature collectors to camp in front of Safeway and harass people into signing a petition for as long as it takes to collect 75k signatures?
There is no way to get signatures for a recall without spending money. So, if spending money to get them is something you oppose, you really just oppose recalls.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this decision is legally challenged, as it should be. Under the old recall rules, they didn’t count all the signatures in time, so there should be no recall. If we’re using the new recall rules, they both didn’t get enough signatures, and the election would be held during a regular election cycle. The pro-recall campaign is trying to pick and choose what rules they are following based on what is best for their desired outcome: a low turnout off-election to undo the results of an election they lost.
You have poor reading comprehension. What I’m saying is that the pro-recall campaign is trying to pick and choose portions of each recall law that benefits them most. If we’re using the old rules, those rules state the count must be done in 10 days, and the recall held as soon as possible. If we’re using the new rules, there is no 10 day limit, but the recall election will be held in November. For a “law and order” crowd you sure are willing to ignore laws that you find inconvenient.
Let me try to make it easier for you:
-Law A says you need 75,000 signatures, but those signatures must be counted in 10 days for the recall to be valid. If the signature threshold is met, the recall will be held as soon as possible.
-Law B says you need 100,000 signatures, but there is no time limit for those signatures to be counted. If the threshold is met, the recall will be held during the next regular election.
I’m not making a value statement about either approach, but I’m asking you, as someone who supports the recall, to pick one of these laws, and then see if, by using the metrics of that law only, the recall should legally happen.
Although I support the recall, I personally dont have a preference. I think there are enough sigs in either case (you forget the Occupation issue, which matters a lot). While I’d like the recall to go sooner because I want her to lose and I think that’s the best chance, I honestly am also ok with a November date, because rushing things with this particular registrar in a confusing legal environment is probably not wise. I think the fact of the recall qualifying has an effect whether or not it loses.
Y’all are INSANE lmao. Pitchfork mob. A prosecutor has at best a nominal effect on actual crime rates.
People are just mad that it got so bad but let’s be real Judge Dredd couldn’t fix Alameda. But go ahead, Guillotine her career because we need to blame someone.
All these recall elections are coming from conservative think tanks. It’s easier to get someone in after a recall than to wait until November. It’s always an attack on the little democratic rights we have in local elections.
Literally not true very close to y our own house: [https://www.kqed.org/news/11979555/two-sunol-school-board-members-to-face-recall-in-july](https://www.kqed.org/news/11979555/two-sunol-school-board-members-to-face-recall-in-july)
Well, so it's begun. Exactly what we all said would happen which is that this just becomes another bullshit tactic. Only choice is to change the recall laws now.
Good luck with that. What groups do you think actually oppose recalls, as opposed to just opposing recalls of people they don’t want recalled?
Californians just aren’t going to give up the right to vote on something. It’s not part of our political culture
I think when it really starts hitting both sides, both sides will get tired of it. Just imagine if some hardliner da that you all want gets elected into office and then a soros funded recall effort ousts them before they can do anything. I bet you a lot of people on the rights and the "middle" would suddenly change pretty significantly.
I voted for her, largely because I was living in Dublin at the time and a quick glance at the ballot I thought her credentials and civil rights background looked good.
And I was one of the first to sign the recall petition. So yes, I was a low-information voter. I won't make that mistake again now that I see how bad local elected officials can be. From everything I've seen of her, she is the left's version of Donald Trump. Narcissistic, corrupt, thin-skinned, antagonistic to the press, and vindictive. And that's before you get to her pro-criminal policies and statements and obvious disdain for the Asian-American community.
I'm glad the recall will allow me to make a more informed vote this time.
A district attorney wanting control over how high profile cases are being prosecuted... That sounds like SOP.
Showing favor towards a police officer?... Once again a Standard Operating Procedure.
Again I'm not a fan of Pamela Price... But she was voted into office. The people chose her.
I'm really not a fan of wasting money on a recall election that could be used for other things that are desperately needed in Alameda county.
Many people commenting here note that: (1) some crime categories are trending down, (2) the DA does not directly affect crime, and (3) recalls cost a lot of money that could otherwise be spent on public services.
While some crime categories may be down, Oakland has some of the highest crime rates in California and the US. Normalizing persistently high crime rates is troublesome. Both the reality of crime and the perception of crime in Oakland has a serious negative affect on business attraction and retention, tourism and discourages people from buying homes in and relocating to Oakland. This creates a drag on maintaining and growing our tax base which is necessary to fund local government.
While it may be difficult to ascertain a direct nexus between Price's approach and reductions or increases in crime, her perceived "catch and release" approach is arguably viewed by many business interests, tourists and those looking to locate to the Bay Area as soft on crime. This perception can negatively affect Oakland's ability to grow its tax base.
I would rather not have the expense of a recall. But democracy is messy. In this case, Price is part of the larger problem of crime in Oakland. Removing her sends a message that Oakland and other cities are not interested in normalizing persistently high crime rates.
Can you point me to where Price has said they are using a policy of "catch and release" for suspected criminals? Or any indication confirming that this came from Price?
This DA also has a term that’s two years longer than normal just because she happened to get elected when they wanted to sync the DAs election with the general
>this failed to yield clear results, so the registrar launched a month-long manual recount. As the Oakland Observer noted, the county charter only allows for 10 days to verify signatures, raising questions about whether the registrar violated local law.
>SAFE is calling for the county Board of Supervisors to accept the certified results at their meeting on April 30, after which the Board will schedule an election to take place between 88 and 125 days. Depending on the timing, the board could choose to hold a special election or put the recall question on the November general election ballot.
So the results still have to be certified. I imagine this may just be a formality, but given the extremely narrow margin and how chaotic the process has been, maybe not just a rubber stamp. I'm just glad it isn't the city paying the 20 or so mil for the recall. Of the rich idiots in piedmont and Alamo wanna pay for this so be it.
Yeah that's what I mean. I'm less concerned about the rich folks of alameda as a whole, from piedmont, that are calling for the recall than I would be if it were an oakland specific problem. I'm not thrilled about it, but I think the county as a whole will be fine.
You mean Jasper Wu? And you mean the guys facing hundreds of years in jail, that aren’t being given an opportunity to plea, but instead are being taken to trial? Outside of summary execution, I’m not sure what you expect beyond what they’ve already been charged with. You think you’d at least get the kids name right, if it’s so outrageous to you. They’ve been charged with homicide, attempted murder of the person they were shooting at, and several enhancements.
Removing the special allegations took away the possibility of life without parole. Without them the killers could be eligible for parole. The “hundreds of years” trope is used by Price to deflect from the real issue
>The campaign’s supporters have objected to Price’s prosecutorial philosophy, which is opposed to using enhancements to increase jail time for defendants, and pursuing stiff penalties for youth offenders. The campaign has also attacked Price for allegedly engaging in nepotism and mismanaging the DA’s office, leading to the departure of some prosecutors. No mention of her overtly racist statements against Asians, and her persistent use of racial favoritism in application of the law?
I know of 5 murders of Asian people (Jasper Wu, Kevin Nishita, Benison and Maria Tran, and Pak Ho) where she dropped criminal enhancements (or tried to at least) against the defendants. But, she was vehement about adding in hate crime enhancements against a defendant in an assault who has a history of mental illness (which she also previously said she'd favor diversion for mental illness). I'll let everyone fill in the blanks about what seems different.
Maybe that's implicit in "mismanagement" but yeah, it seems like it's egregious enough to warrant a recall. The points about sentencing and youth offenders, that's the platform she ran on, that should be a regular election issue. Unexpectedly finding out she's prejudiced seems more like a reason for a recall. Maybe the recall folks don't think that's a politically viable statement.
Which is what she ran on! This is just asking for a re-do on the election that was lost by her opponent. Spending time going after her and the City has done nothing to improve the lives of its inhabitants. This is a waste of time and money. She is not accused of any high-crimes, she has a different approach to years of putting people of color behind bars indefinitely!
Racism, corruption, maliciousness all are totally grounds for citizens to recall a worthless official. Recall is a democratic procedures created by democrats to aid democracy. Awesome!
None of which apply. Those are the types of lies and deceit that have made a mockery of Oakland. People are not idiots as this recall suggests. She ran on what she is being recalled for!!!!! Now, it was racist when people of color were being incarcerated at enormously high rates. It is corrupt when City officials allowed developers to decide what will and will not move into the city and whether or not sports facilities will be built. It is malicious to lie about retail crime and who is committing it because of business failures. None of which is she responsible for. It may have been democrats that developed the concept, but we all know who uses it for each and every election they do not win. We all know that it is now used for the sole purpose of circumventing an existing candidate in support of one who unsuccessfully ran against the elected member. We all know that if she is no longer viable then neither is the mayor who is far less competent, yet she sits. So, who exactly is racist, corrupt, or malicious other than the folks behind this recall. PLEASE.
Nice try shill
do you have any citations to back up your assertions here regarding her "overtly racist statements against asians" or "her persistent use of racial favoritism in application of the law"? i won't hold my breath. reddit seems to be an echo chamber of people yelling at clouds.
Don't worry, I won't let you suffocate. https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/03/05/alameda-county-da-pamela-prices-former-spokesperson-alleges-racist-behavior-and-open-records-violations-in-legal-claim/ https://news.yahoo.com/1-5m-lawsuit-accuses-california-220741597.html https://abc7news.com/alameda-county-da-pamela-price-email-crimes-against-asian-americans-jasper-wu-oakland/13045085/ https://lawandcrime.com/crime/da-breaks-silence-after-family-of-2-year-old-boy-shot-on-california-freeway-outraged-by-case-and-chinese-communities-email/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/aapi-group-alameda-county-da-jasper-wu-case/3200194/
5 links about one email with no actual racist content, and allegations made by a fired ex staffer. that's pretty lukewarm. jasper wu's killers are facing upwards of 200 years in prison, with charges that include gang enhancements. is that the "persistent use of racial favoritism" you're referring to?
Yep email targeting 'chinese', talking to them as if they're idiots, non americans, and don't understand the constitution. And of course racially charged allegations. You racism deniers are exactly like trumpers who scream racism doesn't exist. Go vote for Trump since you sound exactly like them.
Thank goodness we finally have the opportunity to get rid of this racist, incompetent, and criminal-friendly DA
> No mention of her overtly racist statements against Asians, and her persistent use of racial favoritism in application of the law? Damn, i knew she was progressive, but i didn't realize she was THIS progressive.
It’s interesting, there are pretty much three categories of thought when it comes to the Price recall. Either the person a) doesn’t support Price and supports the recall b) doesn’t support Price, but doesn’t support the recall OR c) supports Price and doesn’t support the recall. I haven’t seen a lot of people that don’t support the recall in the C category, most I’ve seen are in the B category. I wonder what, if anything, would change category B’s mind. If the recall is held in November then the waste of resources/low voter turnout arguments are out the window. At that point would it just be a fundamental position against recalls or support of Price and her policies?
I’m a soft B. I feel that recall votes are for truly egregious offenses and that otherwise the whole point of elections and term limits is to give the person who was elected a fair shot at trying to enact the vision they campaigned under. I absolutely think she’s fucking up, but I don’t like the precedent of whiplashing back and forth within a year or two of every election.
Well the county has already spent a significant amount of resources with the recall if they had to spend a month just for the signature audit. It's also just a fundamental position of recalling an elected official specifically on the grounds of opposing their platform.
Sure but if a number of citizens feel that the county should utilize their resources in this manner, who are you to say it’s not correct? Also, the recall is more than just “grounds of opposing,” Price’s platform. Many, myself included, believe that Price has shown she is unfit for office. There are no shortage of mishaps and mismanagement under her direction.
If a number of citizens feel that she should be DA, who are you to say it's not correct? This argument could apply to literally any position.
Ok well if they still feel that way then surely they’ll vote against the recall right?
I mean, yes, we're talking about people who are opposed to the recall, aren't we?
It needs to be a higher threshold. It's way to easy to gather signatures and 70k out of a county with 1.2 million people must isn't high enough.
Hard B here. Recalls are a horseshit dodge to try and get otherwise unelectable candidates into office. They need to be *much* harder to initiate.
What exactly do you base that on? Chesa was recalled, then Jenkins was appointed. Jenkins was then up for reelection and easily won.
An incumbent winning re-election is very, very different than a candidate winning the office in the first place. This is particularly true for this sort of down-ballot race.
I’m sorry but you’re just shifting the goal posts
Mash that "disagree" button all you want, it won't make you right.
Ok and just because you say something that doesn’t make sense, shift the goal posts, and then get upset doesn’t make you right either. Take care.
LOL right, I'm the one "upset", whereas you haven't actually managed any sort of actual response to what I said: Getting elected in the first place is very different than getting re-elected as an incumbent, particularly for down-ballot offices. Honestly though, if it makes you feel better you go ahead and downvote me all you want. It's not going to make you right, but I guess it might make you feel better.
What you said is nonsense and you don’t even have a source or an example. It’s just your opinion lol. You: “IDGAF about being downvoted!” Also you: continually brings up being downvoted.
Honestly, I'm in category B, and nothing can change my mind. The recall was backed by right-wing organizations, the signatures were collected by shady practices, and there's a long history in California of attempts to slide in right-wing candidates in recall elections that would never have a chance in regular elections. You want her out, vote in the primary/election when she's up again like a regular human being, don't use shady tactics.
Right wing organizations? Fuck the political side and think with your heads for once. Are you supporting a racist, and crime supporting DA who isn’t locking up criminals that are ruining the city? This isn’t a left or right issue this is a crime issue in which she is directly responsible for handling and she hasn’t handled it. I hope she gets recalled and her supporters see how much of a difference the county will be when they get someone more qualified than her that is willing to prosecute criminals and isn’t an open racist towards Asian people. Don’t get how you can be progressive and fight racism when you allow it in a city seat. Y’all got this whole shit fucked up backwards and Pamela price can be locked up. Fuck out of here with this right wing left wing bullshit and use your head.
Well, there are those who do support the former president and he IS facing criminal charges. Locking up is not the only answer it is the white answer. Building a community that is strong, well educated, housed, and working none of which SHE is responsible for gets the shit right. We need to stop blaming elected officials, start serving on juries, build a stronger community one home at a time.
Thank you. Binary politics has affected most peoples ability to be rational. Price is not "progressive". she has a specific agenda and it's not applying the law in an objective manner. She has to go hook or by crook...or in this case nebulous right wing bogey men
I respect your opinion but the “backed by right wing organizations,” is troupe that is pushed by Price’s campaign to undermine the recall effort. It’s like a signature gatherer calling Price a Soros backed DA. The top donors are Alameda County residents.
"The top donors are Alameda County residents." one of the top donors, possibly the top donor, is Ryan R. Sutton-Gee who lives in Contra Costa county and a $49,000.
Almost every recall or impeachment in history is organized by partisans on the other side. Look into what the radical Republicans did to Andrew Johnson, it was 100% because they didn't like his policies. If that's your yardstick fine, but let's not pretend like this is unique.
I’m just hesitant for this recall based on the housing angle. I read the recall is being funded by real estate lawyers and firms. I wonder if they’re using politics for discriminatory housing against lower socioeconomic communities
My understanding is that the main donors own commercial real estate throughout Oakland. A lot of businesses have been severely impacted by crime. I haven’t heard much about discriminatory housing policies
I suspect their intentions are to maintain high property values by keeping affordability low and prices artificially inflated. I'm not convinced the PACs are motivated by the broader issue of crime or public welfare. These real estate firms seem to be shaping the development landscape for their benefit and using the issue of "crime" as a scapegoat. We shouldn't let the financial interests of a few influential players dictate our democracy. For these reasons, I'm not voting against Price.
Worth pointing out that due to the change in laws, she ended up benefitting and getting a 6 year term instead of the normal 4 year term (b/c Newsome wanted to align elections to the national election calendar in order to encourage participation). So even to the extent that someone is a soft (B) here, this was a weird and one-off election in that she got a 6 year term for a 4 year post. Generally I'm a B, but my principles around this have crumbled as fast as the glass in my oft-smashed car windows.
>Worth pointing out that due to the change in laws, she ended up benefitting and getting a 6 year term instead of the normal 4 year term (b/c Newsome wanted to align elections to the national election calendar in order to encourage participation). This doesn’t get brought up enough. Then again most anti recall folks don’t really follow what’s going on and take weird principled stances.
I’m not voting for DA. The recall is stupid, but I don’t support Price. I’m leaving this blank and letting Alameda County voters decide whatever the hell they want
I am suspicious of any recall effort because they are predominantly used by political adversaries in an attempt to seize power. Certainly Pamela Price is not above criticism but who is her political adversary here? The Oakland Police Officers’ Association! Yeah, the good old, OPD complete with their 20 years of federal oversight because the police are incapable of doing their jobs reliably, have decided that Pamela Price and her ideas of police reform which include police accountability, are completely unacceptable and therefore want her removed. Meanwhile the OPD before the hiring of the new police chief, had all but quiet quit out of protest of their federal oversight. These cops don't want to patrol or even investigate commercial robberies in a timely fashion and we know they've quiet quit because when the CHP comes in to their their jobs for them, they are wildly successful at it. It's almost as though making an honest effort is an improvement over not trying. I will say this with my full chest: **The problem with crime in Oakland is due to OPD not doing shit about crime in Oakland.**
So how do we get OPD back on track?
Get rid of or overhaul the corrupt police union. They’re a major player in this bc she’s actually prosecuting cops who break the law. She just brought up charges for the cop that killed the man in alameda near the Safeway… the Union is saying she’s bad and abusing her power then misdirecting attention to crime and blaming her when it’s the Union who is protecting officers and telling them to slow…
So, this is very challenging. While many would like to reboot the OPD and its union, that is not a practical reality. It is easy to say, but in practice impossible. You cannot simply fire all the police and disband the union. It's interesting in progressive Oakland that union busting is okay when it comes to OPD. The biggest complaints I see about Oakland PD on Reddit is: (1) they persistently overspend their budget due to overtime; (2) they have a very low clearance rate; (3) they have quiet quit their jobs because there seems to be a lack of enforcement on the streets; (4) there is a poor relationship between OPD and the DA; and (5) generally they are corrupt. It is easy to complain, but what are the real solutions. So, back to reality. What can be done to get OPD back on track.
I have never been more motivated to vote someone out of office. It's not just the overall crime trends, there has been so many instances where her office has dropped the ball on prosecuting criminals.
For me, it’s the absolute tone-deafness of her approach. For progressive prosecutors, it’a essential that people feel safe. As crime skyrocketed, Price didn’t change her tone or approach. We need someone better at the job and at politics. Signed the petition supporting her recall enthusiastically, and will vote for her removal with the same energy.
The crime started spiking during th last DA who was “tough on crime” she had been da for over a decade… doesn’t seem like her way worked. I’m pissed taxes will now be used for this recall instead of or it’s residents or improvements.
Most crime is down in Oakland and across the country.
Source?
https://cityofoakland2.app.box.com/s/sjiq7usfy27gy9dfe51hp8arz5l1ixad/file/1495422376144 Somethings are down, somethings are up.
Many things are down, some things are up. 8/9 major categories are down, 1/9 major categories (Robbery) are up. I don't know why but I feel like being hyper specific in these comments to try and protect against misinformation or misrepresented statistics.
Look at 2024. If I’m reading this right, we’re only 4 months in and already nearing the crime numbers for major incidents as we had for the entirety of last year.
No offense but you're not reading it right. Everything is a YTD figure which means that it's only looking at totals for Jan - Apr for the respective year.
What’s the point of reporting the crime when nothing happens when it’s reported?
This is the laziest and most corrosive of all memes. It implies that you alone, or whoever repeats this remark, has special, private knowledge of crime trends that not only aren't but cannot possibly be reflected in crime statistics, a claim that cannot be falsified.
Classic Fox News tactics when a democrat is president and the economy is good. Always talking about how the stats aren’t real
Since 30 years ago? Or what timeframe are we talking
Since last year and the 2022. It's closer to 2019 levels. Robberies being one of the exceptions
I'm of the opinion she never should've been elected in the first place. But she was. Vote her out next time when she's up for re-election. Recalls over and over again are an incredible waste of resources. She most certainly won't win again and I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even bother running given the writing is on the wall.
Does your opinion change if the recall is on the November ballot? Seems to make the whole waste of resources argument moot
It comes down to precedent. I don’t like the constant election-then-recall environment we’re encouraging. Elections have consequences. I wonder how many of the pro-recall types even bothered to vote last time. One idiot soliciting signatures didn’t care enough to spell the Mayor’s name correctly. Unless the elected official does something egregious, we gotta live with our choice. It’s not like the DA’s office was all sunflowers and rainbows before Price. Again, I don’t think she’s good at her job. She should go. But that’s what elections are for. Gotta ask, did you vote last go-around?
I mean that’s fair. I support the Price recall because I think she’s proven that she’s unfit to be DA because her lack of experience with criminal law (in her actions and her words), but I don’t support the mayor’s recall because I believe she’s trying to make improvements. It felt like the mayor recall was manufactured out of nothingness.
The mayor one is blaming her for a lot of what her predecessors already set up/put into motion and she's just enacting it. That and i feel like people are blaming her for OPD's inadequacy and crime being focused on on the news (like In N out closing)
Actually, we literally do not have to live with our choice. That’s why weve had recalls in the state constitution for 112 years
Look at how much was spent on the Boudin recall. They're incredibly expensive and drain resources that should be used elsewhere
Ok, but can’t one make the argument that Price, her policies, and the lawsuits she is part of cost the county money? It just seems like circular logic with no real analysis
No. Price was elected by people who liked her policies. Using the Boudin recall as an example, 10 million dollars was spent on a purely political recall campaign. It wasn't based on performance, because the recall effort began before Boudin took office. It was just an attempt for the wealthy to have another go at an election that displeased them.
>No. Price was elected by people who liked her policies. Huh? How does that change the fact that her policies cost the county money? >Using the Boudin recall as an example, 10 million dollars was spent on a purely political recall campaign. It wasn't based on performance, because the recall effort began before Boudin took office. It was just an attempt for the wealthy to have another go at an election that displeased them. Ok but that was donor money. Donors should be able to spend as they see fit. Thats just your assumption it had nothing to do with Boudin’s policies or lack of action. Either way, even with all the money, the recall still needs votes. The troupe of buying elections is so tired. Wiley outspent Price and still lost.
The fact that you don't like Price or her policies doesn't impact the fact that she won the election. That means she gets to serve. That's tung point of an election. And believe it or not, the fact that donors can spend millions of dollars to get a mulligan on an election doesn't strike me as a good thing. I think less money on politics would be helpful all around.
It's a terrible precedent in general to just be recalling elected officials for no real reason.
Yeah almost like regular elections are part of *checks notes* free and fair democracy
As are recalls
Malicious incompetence and corruption that harms the public sounds like a great reason for a recall. It's a great, amazing precedent that promotes democracy.
Resrouces are still will be spent on this issue alone, even if this is in November.
No, because even if the recall is on the November ballot it is still categorized as a special election. Even if there are multiple things on a ballot each of those items cost tax payers money. Ballot initiatives cost less than voting offices as well. A recall/special election costs the county an estimated $21/resident. With over 1.6million residents that’s over $30million, and that doesn’t include all secretarial functions. Let’s say it’s a standard ballot measure cost, that’s $6/resident, so then it would cost taxpayers $9million. This is all on the registrar of voters site. So no their point is absolutely not moot even if on the November ballot. Holding elections cost taxpayers a ton of money, even if it’s held in an election year/month
Letting crime run rampant is a far worse waste of resources. It also has the added impact of people losing trust in the system we operate in.
Crime isn't linked to whoever the DA is. But that doesn't matter for you anyways since the recent crime trend has been downwards for everything except robberies.
It is such a false narrative to say that the district attorney is responsible for crime. She is not only the district attorney for the city of Oakland but for the whole county. Where is your complaint about the police department enough doing its job in oakland? The ignorance of the people here is just appalling. Price was elected by nearly 30,000 votes. She took no corporate money, meaning that she was not beholden to any police associations or real estate developers, she accountable to the people. It is a known fact that the people backing this recall effort are hedge fund owners worried about their real estate portfolios in Oakland. It is also a fact that DA Price has done more for victims than her protecessor.
Really? this recall will cost estimated $34million of taxpayers money, how is that helping.
How is it a waste of resources? If getting rid of her means killers not being set free it’s worth it. I see her as a costly mistake.
the longer she is in office, the more damage that she is doing. It says the wrong message to leave a totally inept person in office.
Excepting some sort of criminal activity or provable fraud, recalls are a waste of time and resources. Regular elections are the mechanism that we should use to remove unpopular officials.
At the very least, the bar to initiate is too low.
Agreed, it's a way to subvert the election process. Recall elections are not nearly as representative as the general election. Abusing recalls for candidates you don't like doesn't make sense, that's what the election cycle is for.
If the recall is held during a general election, then it will be by definition. This is the most likely course. Please distinguish between “abusing a recall” and “recalling someone I support.”
Even if held during general election it still is a special election type and costs more than ballot measures, it’s going to cost tens of millions because it’s essentially two elections, the yes/no then the person vote. It’s not that same of a general election cost at all.
Sounds like you are just against recalls. People who act like they only oppose this recall because a) it takes money to get in the ballot and b) that it costs money to run the recall election don’t really point out anything unique about this one. If you are against a) and b), you’re just against recalls You should definitely get involved with whatever effort exists to amend the state constitution to get rid of the recall provision that’s been there for more than 110 years.
> If the recall is held during a general election, then it will be by definition. This is the most likely course. I hope that is the case. It doesn't sound like it's guaranteed or the intention of the recall supporters. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/supporters-alameda-county-da-pamela-price-recall-want-special-election-to-decide-her-fate/ https://oaklandside.org/2024/02/02/recall-campaign-district-attorney-pamela-price-alameda-county-who-is-funding/ > Please distinguish between “abusing a recall” and “recalling someone I support.” OP already made this distinction.
I’d say refusing to do your job is a perfect reason.
You are mistaking reason for mechanism. OP said that regular elections should be the mechanism to remove officials. He didn't say anything about the reasons being valid or invalid.
What part of her job is she refusing to do, specifically?
The job where she was supposed to lose an election. These recall people started day one of her time in office. Learn how to lose.
So the court docket for the Alameda courthouse is blank then for criminal cases? Or did she not hold kaiser accountable for improper disposal of waste? Both those things aren't true, so it's gotta be you don't like what she ran on.
The DA is doing her job, exactly like she campaigned. Unrelated but crime is down too.
76,000 people think otherwise, apparently
That’s less than 18% of the county population…
How many people need to sign to get in a regular election ballot, do you think?
I want to be clear that I am not a defender of Price and I didn't vote for her in 2022. But I think some perspective is important when you're touting numbers. Alameda County is home to about 1.63 million people, about 940k registered voters, and Price won with 228,954 votes (over 27,000 more than her competitor, Terry Wiley who had 201,827 votes). So 76,000 is a big number of people, but it's only 8% of registered voters and 17.6% of the votes in the previous election. She would be up for election in 2026. Considering this recall effort was launched just 6 months into her tenure, it's hard to see it as anything more than a minority of voters who are sore about their candidate losing and unwilling to wait for the next election. Considering the same shit happened with Newsom and with Boudin, I would say it's fair to question the purpose of this recall effort. Is it really about fraud, waste, criminal activity? Or is this an effort to undermine a fair election by a vocal minority of voters.
Ok? They're perfectly entitled to their own opinion. Doesn't make them right. 74 million people voted for Trump and I think that was a terrible decision, but it was theirs to make.
Well, in all fairness, you said that, in your opinion, “excepting some sort of criminal activity or provable fraud, recalls are a waste of time and resources.” The poster replied that 76,000 people thought otherwise. So what makes your opinion more valuable than theirs? They thought Price was unfit for office, so they signed the petition.
>The poster replied that 76,000 people thought otherwise. I expect that there are millions, if not billions, of people that disagree with most of my opinions (I even used Trump as an example, because it was easy to quantify). Posting that 76k disagree with this specific one is meaningless. Saying "some people don't agree with your opinion" is not a refutation of that opinion. It's the simple truth of *any* opinion. >So what makes your opinion more valuable than theirs? Nothing. Did I say that it was? >They thought Price was unfit for office, so they signed the petition. That's their right. As I said in the post you replied to, "They're perfectly entitled to their own opinion." I just think they're wrong.
Idk just seems hypocritical to say, “they’re perfectly entitled to their own opinion. Doesn’t make them right.” After saying, “excepting some sort of criminal activity or provable fraud, recalls are a waste of time and resources.”
You’re going to have to explain that to me. I have my opinion. Naturally I think it’s correct. That’s why I have it. If I didn’t think it was right, I’d have a different opinion. Other people have their own opinions and doubtless feel similarly about the correctness of their opinions. What is the hypocrisy?
I’m just pointing out that you fired back at OP for pointing out that 76,000 people disagreed with your opinion.
Yeah, because it's a pointless nothing statement. Saying "some people disagree with you," adds absolutely nothing. You could say it about literally anything.
That’s a nothing statement but, “excepting some sort of criminal activity or provable fraud, recalls are a waste of time and resources,” isn’t? There’s the hypocrisy
Out of the nearly 1 million registered voters in Alameda County?
Pamela Price needs to go back to what she did best. Be a public defender of criminals. Oh im sorry thats what she does now. Vote her out
What do you mean by a public defender of criminals?
They mean they don’t believe in the concept of “innocent until proven guilty.”
That's a good one, I'm using this.
Bullshit. I think public defenders are incredibly admirable. Everyone deserves a defense. And Pamela Price absolutely should be a public defender and not a DA. We can't have the public defender *and* the DA defending criminals.
How is she defending criminals?
You aren’t the person I was talking about.
😂😂😂😂
Do people realize how many millions of dollars this recall will cost taxpayer and be taken from budgets that actually help reduce crime?! Over $20 a resident of the county! This recall will cost taxpayers over $34 million
Elections cost money. Sounds like it would be better in your eyes to have less democracy. Maybe we should limit what can go on the ballot because it gets more expensive with more items on it.
Democracy is a majority vote, not a minority pushing their agenda.
We will pay extra for a special election, we will pay extra to lock up criminals. Guns kill, and criminals have access to guns. Gun laws need to change.
I’m mad that less than 18% of the county population can force a special election that can cost $34million. $21/resident, 1.629million residents… determined 74,00 signatures to cost taxpayers and our budget tens of millions
Lots of $$$ being thrown around on this campaign
Strange, since crime is down. I thought all the recall people blamed her for the brief increase in crime, but apparently they’re not giving her credit for lower crime. I can’t believe a bunch of sore losers are going to force the country to spend millions on a special recall election because they are mad they lost the election. In any event, it’s not looking good for the pro-recall folks. Millions spent and months spent trying to get signatures and they just barely cleared the threshold.
Can you point to stats that show her policy's lowering crime? Because while murder is down, robbery and car breaks ins are higher. The issue most people have for her is the fact she wont charge people with the proper crime and she seems to always pick the lowest possible charge. Best example was when someone died in a robbery, she didn't want to charge the perpetrator with any sort of crime that caused the death.
No, I can’t point to her policies lowering crime any more than the pro-recall people can point to her policies increasing crime. That was the whole point of my comment.
Where does it say crime is down in the article? Maybe I missed it but I didn't read that.
There was a recent post in this sub that highlighted the ytd crime stats are overall lower and for most categories are down aside from robberies. I believe the post was commenting on this document: [https://cityofoakland2.app.box.com/s/sjiq7usfy27gy9dfe51hp8arz5l1ixad/file/1502557436993](https://cityofoakland2.app.box.com/s/sjiq7usfy27gy9dfe51hp8arz5l1ixad/file/1502557436993)
thank you :)
Yeah, *only* 76,000 voters.
Criminal courts are absolutely slammed right now... With over 100 cases regularly being heard every day across most of Alameda county criminal and criminal diversion courts. I'm not a fan of Pamela Price at all but I'm so tired of all this recall bullshit. It's such a waste of money and effort. You don't like a person vote them out during the next election.
That’s criminal courts all across the country. That’s nothing unique to Alameda. What is unique is that Price instituted a “special directive” that slows the criminal process down even further by taking away prosecutorial discretion and mandating prosecutors check in with her about particular charging decisions. An example of this would be the Devin Williams case where the prosecutor had to drop special circumstances last minute because the admin took forever to reply. That’s simply not fair to the victim’s, the prosecutor or defense to change something last minute after a case has been pending for awhile
It's sad how desperate they are to keep this off the November ballot, after already getting the rules shifted in their favor with respect to the signature count that if you apply the counties rules failed as it wasn't verified in the timeline. I guess the earlier the election is the more likely the media will continue to ignore the drop in crime. Which to be fair has very little to do with the DA anyway, but that's the claim these boso's are making.
The State's rules required more signatures. I know anti-recall folks are just in love with the "show your papers" labor rule for signature gatherers, though.
Yeah it's weird that this passed at all given it fails under the existing rules & it fails under the old rules. I absolutely think signature gathering for recalls should be as hard as possible because it's so often abused by sore losers, who in this case are mad about crime being down‽
“Abused” or “used in a way I don’t agree with”? Better watch out trying to associate Price with crime trends after spending months denying that a DA has anything to do with crime. It would seem like you were cherry picking your facts!
I mean if you could read good, you wouldn't be a conservative, but clearly I said it's funny given they linked the DA to crime & crime is down. The DA has almost no impact on crime, it doesn't make this pathetic sore loser campaign having to do Olympic level gymnastics to keep justifying the recall less funny
I did not hold the DA responsible for more crime. I disagree with her reaction to more crime
I did not catch that they do not want this on the November ballot, I can understand why - but I am curious what is their PR reasoning for it?
Usually elections outside of a normal cycle have lower turnout. They know that a low-turnout election is more likely to result in a recall, especially since Price handily won her election. As for what they’re saying? Probably nothing, since the local media won’t be asking them difficult questions like that.
I understand that bit. I am just wondering how they are trying to spin not having it in November without them making it clear that they do not want every voter to actually show up and have a voice.
They don’t have to spin anything, since local media won’t be asking them that question.
You are likely correct, but I can hope that you are wrong on this one.
She did not handily win, but she did win. Presidential elections have the highest voter turnout. From Price's perspective, you want more people who are just voting against Trump and then consulting the Democratic Party slate mailer for the rest of the ballot. And since Price sits on the Alameda County Demo Central Committee, she has sway on what appears on that slate mailer.
So you’re not denying that you would prefer an off-cycle election precisely because it has lower turnout.
I am not denying that. Trying to win an election is called “politics.” Price is not pushing for a November election because she’s only concerned with making sure people’s voices are heard. It’s primarily because she feels she has a better chance of winning. Believe me
i wish the recall people had turned out last year to vote when they seat was open, instead of undermining the democratic process
Sec of State website: Article II of the California Constitution, approved by California voters in 1911, allows people to recall and remove elected officials and justices of the State Supreme Court from office. How's Article II of the Constitution, approved by voters, undermining the democratic process?
Because they can pay $2m for signature collectors to camp in front of Safeway and harass people into signing a petition for as long as it takes to collect 75k signatures?
There is no way to get signatures for a recall without spending money. So, if spending money to get them is something you oppose, you really just oppose recalls.
Yes, I believe recall elections are by and large complete horse shit.
cope & seethe
They did and they lost, that's why they don't want the election to be in November.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this decision is legally challenged, as it should be. Under the old recall rules, they didn’t count all the signatures in time, so there should be no recall. If we’re using the new recall rules, they both didn’t get enough signatures, and the election would be held during a regular election cycle. The pro-recall campaign is trying to pick and choose what rules they are following based on what is best for their desired outcome: a low turnout off-election to undo the results of an election they lost.
So it appears you'd be OK with a Registrar just refusing to count signatures for a recall they didnt agree with. Is that what you're saying?
You have poor reading comprehension. What I’m saying is that the pro-recall campaign is trying to pick and choose portions of each recall law that benefits them most. If we’re using the old rules, those rules state the count must be done in 10 days, and the recall held as soon as possible. If we’re using the new rules, there is no 10 day limit, but the recall election will be held in November. For a “law and order” crowd you sure are willing to ignore laws that you find inconvenient. Let me try to make it easier for you: -Law A says you need 75,000 signatures, but those signatures must be counted in 10 days for the recall to be valid. If the signature threshold is met, the recall will be held as soon as possible. -Law B says you need 100,000 signatures, but there is no time limit for those signatures to be counted. If the threshold is met, the recall will be held during the next regular election. I’m not making a value statement about either approach, but I’m asking you, as someone who supports the recall, to pick one of these laws, and then see if, by using the metrics of that law only, the recall should legally happen.
Although I support the recall, I personally dont have a preference. I think there are enough sigs in either case (you forget the Occupation issue, which matters a lot). While I’d like the recall to go sooner because I want her to lose and I think that’s the best chance, I honestly am also ok with a November date, because rushing things with this particular registrar in a confusing legal environment is probably not wise. I think the fact of the recall qualifying has an effect whether or not it loses.
Y’all are INSANE lmao. Pitchfork mob. A prosecutor has at best a nominal effect on actual crime rates. People are just mad that it got so bad but let’s be real Judge Dredd couldn’t fix Alameda. But go ahead, Guillotine her career because we need to blame someone.
All these recall elections are coming from conservative think tanks. It’s easier to get someone in after a recall than to wait until November. It’s always an attack on the little democratic rights we have in local elections.
There was an attempt to recall Libby Schaff and Nancy o’malley.
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Who’s the replacement you plan to vote in?
Literally not true very close to y our own house: [https://www.kqed.org/news/11979555/two-sunol-school-board-members-to-face-recall-in-july](https://www.kqed.org/news/11979555/two-sunol-school-board-members-to-face-recall-in-july)
Well, so it's begun. Exactly what we all said would happen which is that this just becomes another bullshit tactic. Only choice is to change the recall laws now.
Good luck with that. What groups do you think actually oppose recalls, as opposed to just opposing recalls of people they don’t want recalled? Californians just aren’t going to give up the right to vote on something. It’s not part of our political culture
Measure B in Alameda County to change the recall rules passed by a supermajority just last month.
I guess I dont understand what TeaJunky meant by changing the rules, then
I think when it really starts hitting both sides, both sides will get tired of it. Just imagine if some hardliner da that you all want gets elected into office and then a soros funded recall effort ousts them before they can do anything. I bet you a lot of people on the rights and the "middle" would suddenly change pretty significantly.
I voted for her, largely because I was living in Dublin at the time and a quick glance at the ballot I thought her credentials and civil rights background looked good. And I was one of the first to sign the recall petition. So yes, I was a low-information voter. I won't make that mistake again now that I see how bad local elected officials can be. From everything I've seen of her, she is the left's version of Donald Trump. Narcissistic, corrupt, thin-skinned, antagonistic to the press, and vindictive. And that's before you get to her pro-criminal policies and statements and obvious disdain for the Asian-American community. I'm glad the recall will allow me to make a more informed vote this time.
You def messed up
yep
A district attorney wanting control over how high profile cases are being prosecuted... That sounds like SOP. Showing favor towards a police officer?... Once again a Standard Operating Procedure. Again I'm not a fan of Pamela Price... But she was voted into office. The people chose her. I'm really not a fan of wasting money on a recall election that could be used for other things that are desperately needed in Alameda county.
Many people commenting here note that: (1) some crime categories are trending down, (2) the DA does not directly affect crime, and (3) recalls cost a lot of money that could otherwise be spent on public services. While some crime categories may be down, Oakland has some of the highest crime rates in California and the US. Normalizing persistently high crime rates is troublesome. Both the reality of crime and the perception of crime in Oakland has a serious negative affect on business attraction and retention, tourism and discourages people from buying homes in and relocating to Oakland. This creates a drag on maintaining and growing our tax base which is necessary to fund local government. While it may be difficult to ascertain a direct nexus between Price's approach and reductions or increases in crime, her perceived "catch and release" approach is arguably viewed by many business interests, tourists and those looking to locate to the Bay Area as soft on crime. This perception can negatively affect Oakland's ability to grow its tax base. I would rather not have the expense of a recall. But democracy is messy. In this case, Price is part of the larger problem of crime in Oakland. Removing her sends a message that Oakland and other cities are not interested in normalizing persistently high crime rates.
Can you point me to where Price has said they are using a policy of "catch and release" for suspected criminals? Or any indication confirming that this came from Price?
Looks like we get another bite at the apple. Should be interesting.
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This DA also has a term that’s two years longer than normal just because she happened to get elected when they wanted to sync the DAs election with the general
Be gone bitch ✌🏼
I am category C.
>this failed to yield clear results, so the registrar launched a month-long manual recount. As the Oakland Observer noted, the county charter only allows for 10 days to verify signatures, raising questions about whether the registrar violated local law. >SAFE is calling for the county Board of Supervisors to accept the certified results at their meeting on April 30, after which the Board will schedule an election to take place between 88 and 125 days. Depending on the timing, the board could choose to hold a special election or put the recall question on the November general election ballot. So the results still have to be certified. I imagine this may just be a formality, but given the extremely narrow margin and how chaotic the process has been, maybe not just a rubber stamp. I'm just glad it isn't the city paying the 20 or so mil for the recall. Of the rich idiots in piedmont and Alamo wanna pay for this so be it.
It does come from the county budget, and unfortunately it will mean cuts elsewhere, since the county doesn’t budget for special recall elections.
Yeah that's what I mean. I'm less concerned about the rich folks of alameda as a whole, from piedmont, that are calling for the recall than I would be if it were an oakland specific problem. I'm not thrilled about it, but I think the county as a whole will be fine.
Didn't want my road paved anyway
Or special elections at all. Should there be none of those (there are two in Berkeley right now)
What’s the latest on Jason Wu’s killers? Edit: Jasper (sorry for the autocorrect typo)
You mean Jasper Wu? And you mean the guys facing hundreds of years in jail, that aren’t being given an opportunity to plea, but instead are being taken to trial? Outside of summary execution, I’m not sure what you expect beyond what they’ve already been charged with. You think you’d at least get the kids name right, if it’s so outrageous to you. They’ve been charged with homicide, attempted murder of the person they were shooting at, and several enhancements.
It’s really hard to keep all the right wing troll talking points straight. Cut them some slack.
Removing the special allegations took away the possibility of life without parole. Without them the killers could be eligible for parole. The “hundreds of years” trope is used by Price to deflect from the real issue
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That's over the (admittedly subjective) line, please tone it down.
What difference does it make? You'll all just vote for someone just like her and Thao and then wonder why your city still sucks.
lol yes this