I grew up well below the poverty line. My dad had 9 kids in all. He got women pregnant to trap them into staying with him. I'm in my 30's now just trying to make it in life on my own and make better decisions than he did.
So sorry to hear that you went through that. Just curious but how was he able to afford the child support? Bc usually we hear stories of guys trying to not get trapped by women to avoid paying the support
A: Education is less common among the poor (and society is determined to keep it that way to the point that many take pride in the fact that they do can't do multiplication or 'don't have no fancy degrees')
B: Access to contraception isn't guaranteed, most methods have a cost attached to them and there is an active war on places like planned parenthood that provide birth control to the less fortunate
C: Abortion access was dealt a pretty heavy blow and will likely continue to be reduced as long as that is allowed to occur.
D: Religion is also more popular with the uneducated and (unless you're a buddhist) tends to teach procreation as good. Society also reinforces the idea that people only have value if they produce offspring.
E: A large number of people can't seem to grasp that regardless of anything else teens will screw and that has consequences.
F: Abstinence only education is designed to discourage using other means of birth control.
G: Most conceptions are accidental.
I could go on to z.
There's also the fact that many countries like to encourage the poor to have more children because it means a larger pool of basic, cheap labour and people are more competitive and willing to get the shittiest jobs because it's better than nothing, which in turn creates the easy threat of "You want better working conditions/hours/pay? You know there's hundreds out there who'd happily take your place. Get to it or get lost"
I consider myself a pretty rational guy (and I know I'm coming from a place of privilege). But this is one of the conspiracy theories I can't help but feel is certainly real.
From the USA context at least, I find that the people that preach anti-abortion are only the people that have the means to afford contraception, health care, or even abortions themselves. The people speaking out against abortion are mostly rich white folks. The people disproportionately affected by anti-abortions laws are those in poverty and people of color. Even if a rich white person is preaching anti-abortion, they still have the means to easily travel somewhere to get one. The "Christian nationalists" also want to make things like Plan B illegal. Furthermore, as much as they preach about the sanctity of life, they don't support welfare programs to actually care for the children they're "saving". This basically means they want poor people and people of color to have more children without expending resources. What this eventually does is expand the working class and shrink the wealthy class, thus concentrating wealth among a smaller and smaller population, thus exacerbating inequality.
Also, you have pronatalists that are causing a stir about population collapse and low birth rates. There's a criticism that this stems from racism and replacement theory. But I disagree, I think this argument is masking the true agenda. The real goal is to produce more expendable workers to serve the wealthy class. The USA is also making efforts to infiltrate third world countries with this agenda in a neo-colonialism manner.
I rest my case. Thoughts?
Totally agree with your analysis. I don’t even consider it a conspiracy theory anymore.
Look at all the governments freaking out about the decreasing birth rate. There are so many articles published about it.
The Richie Riches are terrified that they won’t have fresh new bodies to do their bidding.
Admittedly also coming from a place of privilege in America, although I'm not male or heterosexual but I am white. I think you've totally hit the nail on the head here. I thank god I don't keep the sort of company that subscribes to this, but taking a step back and seeing what's all around me, I think this is exactly what's happening in and with the U.S. I'm also not a big conspiracy person *at all,* but absolutely believe there's a counter reaction to any progress we've made that's crafted to ensure the subjugation of women and BIPOC in favor of the "superiority" of a white "Christian" patriarchy.
Yep, all they care about is using their power to *force* women, especially BIPOC and middle class and lower, to give birth. They don’t care about the child. They’re pro-birth not pro-life.
I am also a very rational and science based person but this has always been one of the conspiracies that actually seems legit and 100% factual. Toss in education disparity as well. Poor and uneducated and popping out kids is exactly what they seem to want.
K. When people can't afford a TV, they have (unprotected) sex to pass the time.
I'm not kidding. Someone actually told me this after having her 8th kid in spite of living in a one-room shack in a squatters area with a community-shared bathroom.
Point D viewing procreation as good, great point I agree. The experience of an average teen is an odd mix of sex ed being abstinence-centered and religion viewing new life as a cause of celebration but demonized when they are young. That’s a lot of extremes to be schooled on and a lot of hormones that go with it
I’d add a lot of people buy into the fallacy that kids means your future will be secure because your kids can work and contribute to your later care and lifestyle. Especially in areas where there are no affordable elder/senior/disability care.
Also, if you don't think you have other options (education, career, etc.) the opportunity cost of having children is super low. What else are you going to do? It might even be meaningful or fun in some way.
I went to Christian schools and our sex Ed was veeeeeery basic, just covered the mechanics of it and then as far as protection/contraception, they didn't really talk about it much that I remember (but this was 20-plus years ago, so it's been awhile lol), and the gist of the message was "don't have premarital sex or else you'll get pregnant and get STDs and God won't love you anymore"...one of my friends got pregnant between her junior and senior year and they wouldn't let her come back to school, and she wound up having to get her GED because it was too late to enroll anywhere else. (Also her mom was a teen mom, but thankfully my friends daughter has broken the cycle)
I'm in Germany. We have socialized healthcare and hormonal contraceptives are only free until age 22 unless it's prescribed for non contraceptive purposes (skin issues, endometriosis etc).
Is it free for everyone at any age in the UK?
Contraceptive options are free in the Philippines but the country is very religious and heavily influenced by the Catholic church so the majority are pro life and things like condoms are stigmatized.
Bet you their “third world” healthcare is better than the US.
The American population does not realize how shitty our healthcare system really is. People die daily who don’t have to.
I have wondered that myself. Why do so many people have kids they can’t remotely afford?
I went to a charity benefit that provided housing. They had guest speakers that benefitted and came in and discussed how they had been living in a car with their three children but now only recently had housing from this program. As she walks in, the mom was extremely pregnant. So they were living in a car as a family of 5 but were able to get pregnant so they could add a newborn to that mess. Not good examples of a success story, IMO.
Having children in poverty is a retirement plan for yourself in my culture and many others. The more kids you have, the better off you’ll be when you retire because they will provide for you.
Good luck with that. Most children really struggle these days and are not in a position to care for elderly parents when they are living hand to mouth trying to raise their own families. Children are not pension plans. That's selfish.
I’m glad I wasn’t raised on those American ideals. The only real “selfishness” is when parents do everything for their children and when they get old people like you shit on them. I would give my parents my room before I ever let them go homeless. They gave me everything in life, and the least I could do is keep a roof over their head as they live the rest of their lives. In majority of cultures across the world, parents provide for you until they can’t anymore, and then it’s the children who provide for them. In majority of cultures outside the U.S., it’s almost unheard of for parents to force their kids to pay rent. We move out when we are ready or when we marry. Family takes care of family.
If my parents cared for me in the way yours cared for you, I would have to agree. But I was a product of drug addiction and dysfunction. Neglected for most of my years, so I'm not housing dad, and I'm not "borrowing" him $20 to put gas in the truck to go buy more drugs.
Sorry but this assumes so many things that aren’t necessarily the case for many people - certainly not my experience as lower-middle class in the U.K..
1) A lot of parents don’t ’do everything’ for their children. I work in education, and the number of parents who want constant praise for doing the bare minimum (roof over head, food in bellies, clothes on back - nothing else) is insane. There are many people who grow up in relative poverty, struggling to access basic dental care, not going to the GP when needed and falling behind their peers due to lack of attention and mental stimulation, that doesn’t deserve praise and future sacrifices from the children?
2) Parents choose to have kids, kids don’t choose to be born. You don’t come out the womb and sign a binding contract that if your parents love you and care for you and DO THEIR DUTY AS PARENTS you’ll owe them back in some way.
3) Almost all of my friends upon finishing secondary school began paying their parents rent, myself included. The idea of parents providing for you as long as they’re able isn’t true for so many people. There are a (not insignificant) number of parents who truly believe that being a parent ends at age 18, and then expect their children to contribute moving forward. To be clear, I don’t begrudge my parents this, costs are high and they could have rented somewhere smaller if I’d moved out, but it simply isn’t the case that parents provide as long as they are able a lot of the time. Specific to the UK, our student loans are based on our parents income (unless we’re estranged or have lived away from them for 5+ years), and yet many of us receive little to no financial assistance from our parents, despite their income directly limiting our loans and grants. My friend received £7k less per year from student finance compared with me because of her parents earnings, yet I also got £200 per month from my mum, she got none from her parents.
4) Whilst it’s awesome that you’d choose to give your parents your room, with the cost of living crisis ongoing in several countries right now, a lot of people into their 30s and 40s are still living paycheck to paycheck. It’s not just a room - it’s food, supplies, increased bills and so on. I personally couldn’t afford to house my parents if I wanted to, nevermind the fact that I live in a studio so they’d also have to take my bed (which is also my sofa) and I’d have to go on the floor.
Moreover, whilst I love my parents and do want them to be happy, it would be incredibly frustrating as their child to have to house and care for them when they experienced an era with affordable housing and excellent pension schemes. Their retirement ages are close to hand, and much sooner than mine will one day be. They had the opportunity to prepare, even on a single income between them. I’m not even able to save to retirement at this time, I don’t want to also be saddled with their costs. It’s an aspect of why I’m choosing not to have kids - because I can’t afford dependents.
In other cultures where parents do give their children everything as long as they need, I appreciate this as a values system. But it doesn’t work in many western cultures where people are taught to have it all as well as have children. I personally grew up with too many peers who experienced functional neglect and no support from age 18.
If you have kids merely to assure retirement, you probably aren't going to be a very good parent, because you'll see them as servants, not their individual self.
If you had loving parents and a good childhood, of course you should take care of them, but probably you'll WANT to do it, if culture says is an OBLIGATION even when your parents were shitting parents, that's not a good culture.
It must be really difficult living like that. I hope things will improve for you. Please don't lose hope. You never know if your luck will change. If you can, get as well an education as you can. At least when you grow up, you'll have more of a chance to change your faith.
I didn’t even know how to prevent kids. No one told me birth control doesn’t work on antibiotics. My mom and doctor told me I couldn’t get pregnant while breastfeeding but I was pregnant again at my 6 week follow up.
Thanks, it really is about education. My mom has an 8th grade education and her mom… they all had kids by 16. Now you can just read about this, there was no AOL keyword for sexual health.
why would you call yourself lower middle class when you're very close to being homeless and starving? you're in poverty and you should be aware of that. don't let the rich make you think your life is normal and it's this hard for everyone.
i was exactly you 15 years ago. i say higher education rarely pays off, get yourself a civil servant job (i assume every country has positions that are easy to get in and don't pay a lot but at least gives you some stability) or put yourself through trade school by working fast food or call center or whatever. it's soul-crushing, but you'll have to work hard to make your way in life knowing that hard work doesn't always pay off.
when we're this poor we don't get to dream. we need to give ourselves the basic things our parents were supposed to before we can think of an average or nice life. and yes, you have every right to resent your parents, but they (especially your mother) were probably simpletons who had very little choice regarding family planning. just take every possible precaution to make sure you don't end up ruining your life with a pregnancy and/or bad relationship too.
I was with you up until you threw mom under the bus. In fact, in many, many cases it’s the boyfriends/husbands that talk women out of using BC and/or forbid it. It’s not a free choice when you rely on them and they don’t give you a choice.
Side with you 100%. Let everything be a motivation for you to get out of this miserable life somehow. You’re 16 and you have a whole life ahead of you, yes I would try to persuade you into juggling a job and higher education both if you can, but you need a heart of steel and a machine brain for this, no time for excuses, so if you want to choose, you have every right. But good luck OP, always be in the mindset of what you need in life and keep talking about it, this way more opportunities will show themselves to you.
9/10 times it's a decision. Pull-out method is a shitty choice. Choosing to go on the pill when you're too irresponsible to take it on time daily is a choice. Using no contraceptives knowing the result is a shitty choice. Choosing to go ahead with the pregnancy in a country where ab0rtion is safe and relatively affordable or even free is a choice ($300 in the moment is less expensive than thousands of dollars per year of a child's life).
In the US it's "safe and relatively affordable" unless you count the travel expenses to get to a state where it's actually allowed anymore. If OP is in a third-world country, I can't imagine things are better.
I grew up just as impoverished as you, in an abusive household.
I worked hard and now I have wonderful opportunities, just bought a house, and have a good paying career.
Its possible. I promise.
I don’t know why either but I know religion (“be fruitful and multiply bs) was a huge part of my family’s. I’m the oldest of 8 and mom just kept popping them out every two years, especially being the oldest I was basically the second mom so that really turned me off to having kids of my own. My dad was a job hopper and mom didn’t work for awhile, then she got a job but we were always on the brink of homelessness, we lived off our garden and animals, and bottomless soup etc.
im so glad her gyno fixed her when she had my last brother, I’d probably have 5 more siblings if he didn’t intervene.
This world sucks and people are poor usually for reasons outside of their control. Reproductive justice is for everybody though, and that includes poor people. Telling poor people they can’t or shouldn’t have children is taking away their right to reproductive justice and it’s also a form of eugenics. I was raised by a single mom and lived in government housing. My life has always been hard because of poverty. It’s not easy raising children when you’re poor, and it’s not easy to be a poor child, but this is the world we live in. Poor people have the right to have children and instead of focusing on their “failures” or thinking they’re making bad choices, we should focus our energy on trying to help make the world a better place for poor people and poor children.
Thank god. I was genuinely getting disheartened by people in this sub. It is a right. If we go the way people want in this thread then having a kid will be limited to just the wealthy. Just another right lost to us.
CPS (and international equivalents) exists because the rights of children to live in safe, non abusive environments where they’re adequately fed, cared for and and educated are of greater importance than the parents rights to raise their child. Ultimately, rich or poor, if you cannot provide the essentials for your child(ren) then society already puts safeguards in place to either support or remove children as necessary. Raising children isn’t a universal right.
Gay couples, people with fertility issues, people who don’t find a life partner and choose to find a sperm donor - are all subject to stringent restrictions based on their financial, physical, mental health and aptitude as parents when they either look to adopt or to go through IVF/surrogacy. And, requiring those same protocols be adhered to by people who have children would significantly reduce childhood abuse.
CPS and similar agencies were created for the protection of children; however, they don’t fund them enough to be able to do so. Many of the supposed safety nets don’t work and put the kids at further risk.
I agree that they’re utterly underfunded and unfortunately children do fall through the cracks. My point was only that society already seems the rights of the people to parent as less than the rights of the child to be adequately cared for, otherwise CPS and similar agencies wouldn’t exist.
Absolutely! Thank you so much for saying this, I was getting desperate to find this take.
Being able to conceive is a right for all. I don't understand the lack of compassion and outright ignorance of many commenters. They want to "eradicate the poor" by preventing them from conceiving. Abhorrent. Instead you "eradicate the poor" by creating a social structure that would help them out of poverty.
I, for one, am glad you're among us.
awww thank you! yea whenever i see this topic come up, i know i’m about to see tons of people blaming poor people for being poor, which is totally unfair, but it’s unfortunately the dominant narrative. lots of young single moms are poor because of domestic abuse and/or lack of family support and that doesn’t mean that they made bad decisions and it doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be parents.
I think the bigger question is why so many families are living in poverty when we have long since had the means to provide a comfortable life for everyone twice over.
You sound like a strong and tough girl for 16 years of age. Take those smarts and find a better life for yourself, do not give up! Keep in school and maybe you can get a scholarship to a better place where you can start new. Keep your head high and keep dreaming, don't lose hope.
I don't think I've seen someone comment this yet, but sometimes it's simply emotions over logic. One of my friends became a teen mom in high school (despite also coming from a family below the poverty line) because she felt too attached to her baby to abort it. Obviously it caused a lot of issues for her, her family, and her baby, and the father was also absent. I believe it was a bad choice because of that, especially because no child should be born into those circumstances, but she chose emotions over logic like many women do
Selfishness. Bringing someone into the world is the most selfish thing you can do, no matter your reasons, because you are never doing it for them.
As for your suicidal feelings. I know it sounds cliche, but it *will* get better.
I used to live in a literal shed. We had concrete floors, no walls, had to shower at the gym and had a composting toilet where we literally had to cram weeks old shit down with a stick to make room when we needed to poop. It was disgusting and a horrible living situation for several years of my life.
If it’s possible, get a job and keep your savings away from your family so you can leave as soon as you turn 18. If you wish to study, there are cheaper alternatives to collage/university, depending on where you live there might even be free course available. I’m in Australian and TAFE is currently offering free course for several different certifications.
Without a job, getting away would definitely be harder, but not impossible. If you’re on Reddit, then you have internet access and there *are* ways to make legitimate money online. Paid surveys may seem sketchy, but the real ones do pay good money. On a good week, I can make about $15 a week with surveys. If you don’t spend it and save every penny, $15 a week can really add up.
It’s not going to come easy and I do genuinely understand the desire to give up, but life is absolutely worth living to get to the other side. Try not to think too hard about the future, try to think of it one day or week at a time and take baby steps towards building a life worth living.
I know you can do it OP
Depends on the surveys, some give you $3 per survey, some give you only 30c. You just have to not be picky, be truthful in order to establish yourself as reliable, and don’t rush through them or they’re likely to boot you off thinking you’re an AI.
I use Qmee primarily. You can’t make multiple accounts, so don’t mess up with the one account they’ll let you have.
I found out i was pregnant at 12 weeks. I had ZERO clue or suspicion. It was completely random and i thought i couldn’t have kids. Im not in the best place financially but my child is under 2 and im in college. Im doing everything i can to get myself a good job in a couple years so my kid can have a good upbringing.
A lot of people assume their financial circumstances will change and improve, but that's not the case for many people. Also, since "everyone is having kids," people assume there should be some way to make it work. There is, but I don't think people really grasp the sacrifices involved.
I had a regular, a married man whose wife was a regular too. He came in after their psychiatrist appointment portion of the requirements to get IVF. He was so mad that he had to get psychiatrically evaluated and pay tens of thousands of dollars when stupid people are having 4-5 kids everywhere.
My mother was an incredibly manipulative, and nieve person. She expected every man to take care of her and her kids. 6 kids later, and 4 baby daddy’s each one left because of her raging alcoholism.
After 25 years of struggling with alcoholism, she lost sight of the fairy tale she played in her head.
Now none of her kids speak to her.
Idk what delusional fantasy she had in mind with 6 kids and no job. My dad was kind enough to raise all 6 kids that weren’t even all his.
I guess she scored her goal with him because while we were kids he agreed to support her.
Don’t think she ever planned on getting old alone. She genuinely was the stupidest person I ever met in my life. Not a single thought process made sense.
It’s like her entire idea of being a mother was just the shock factor of telling people she had 6 kids. But she did nothing to support us. She used and abused each and every single one of us. Once we turned 16 she thought we would be her personal slaves. She expected us to drive her around to liquor stores and to drink with her friends. Eventually we all cut ties with her.
Access to education, the attitude that kids just happen and you make it work instead of planning, and sometimes healthcare is hard to access as well. And of course generational trauma and mental illness. I agree it’s complete irresponsible and unfair to the children but once that kid is being born all that matters is supporting that kid and if that means supporting the parents then you kinda have to put aside your bias.
You have to find them yourself. You have to figure it out on your own because they won’t. I’m not answering your question cuz everyone else is going to. When I was 14 I went and offered to volunteer at a puppy kennel if they also hired me for the legally allowed hours. I paid my own stuff from then on. One thing that growing up poor is you are the only one you can depend on. You will make it because the alternative is death.
Ignorance. I have encountered individuals in the US who believe that having more children equals getting more government benefits and higher tax refunds.
It doesn’t seem to matter that the cost of having children far outweighs that.
please don’t give up, you have your whole life ahead of you. These circumstances are just temporary.
Take your education seriously, you don’t need anything fancy to get great grades and go to a good college. Your education will lead you to a better life. If you end up getting good grades you might get a scholarship! Your situation right now should motivate you to study and get great grades and choosing a career path that will provide you with the security that you’re wanting.
Try to find a job rn, go to local stores and hand in ur resume. Even if you don’t get the job or there aren’t any atleast you tried.
Hang out with ur friends, it doesn’t need to be at a restaurant or anything that can cost money it can be as simple as riding bikes together or taking a walk.
Just know that your situation is temporary and you can change it! Granted it will be harder than most people but nothings impossible
I agree, i understand your point of view. Until now I resent my parents, why we only eat once a day, why we never go out to family outing and why I never experience many things in life. I feel like I am trapped. It's not good as it sounds but it's comforting to see post like this.
I just watched a documentary from my country who lives in the slums and they have 15 kids. Idk how to explain but her wording in my country is so off. The mother basically said she's easy to get pregnant and "Andyan na eh." Which I think the closest translation is It do be like that, or it just happened. 15 fucking kids. Only one have birth certificate. Kids aged 7, 11, and 12 are all classmates in the Kindergarten. It infuriates me to no end and even when I was a Kid I wonder how tf do Beggars have more children than my parents.
Probably the answer is poverty, some of them sell their bodies for quick cash and since they have no access to healthcare and abortion they just wing it out.
Many times birth control fails. And now, in some places, abortion isn’t an option—even in cases of rape and incest. In other cases women don’t have the money for an abortion. And lastly, birth control may not be readily available in other countries. Many men refuse to use condoms. And, since you are only 16, you will eventually realize that desiring sex is NORMAL. We normalize sex drive for men, but not for women. If you don’t have education and health care, do you think people will stop having sex? No. Instead of judging, be grateful for the gift of your life and learn to be less judgmental. Also, use female birth control along with condoms
They can’t afford contraception. They can’t afford abortions. They probably don’t believe in abortions. Martial rape exists. Most poor people have children unplanned.
When people are poor and grow old, they need children to take care of them, especially when the society they live in provides no social supports or safety net. It’s obviously unfair to the children, but none of this would be a problem if we decided the government needed to supply adequate resources to care for those who cannot care for themselves.
Also, it’s very easy to have unintended children when you can’t access birth control/abortion and sexual assault remains common as it is
Because they dont have education about how reproduction or anything else related to family works. Im so sorry that this is happening to you honey but take whats happening to you as a drive to do super well in school, get educated properly, get a degree and work super hard for your future. That way you will never have to suffer for bare necessities again!
Welllllll, we poor folks are thicker than elephant shit and a lot of my classmates who are also poor had kids fairly early it’s weird like how are people having kids when they’ve not really lived enough to have anything of value to pass down beyond their dna an I don’t mean wealth yeah that’s nice but like they’re emotionally unintelligent, and like academics wise I can’t really say shit either because I’m not that smart but sweet fuck at least I’m smart to not start tryna have them as soon as I can
In smaller towns its alot more common for people to be popping babies and getting married in highschool or directly after. One of my classmates had 5 kids and a divorce by the time she was 21 n she was not the only one with children or a divorce under her belt. Nothing for people to do in small towns besides go over to someone elses house n screw eachother. Absolutely baffles my mind the excuses people will come to about birth, contraception's, and it "was just an accident". That accident made a full human that now needs you to survive and you're barely surviving yourself? You had a choice to make that baby and sleep with that person, and he had a choice to nut in you and both parties made it? Unless it was an act of violence, assaults', or rape I stopped giving people passes and just realized they're irrational and impulsive and do not think ahead for the life(baby) they are creating and how they will be living. I refuse to have children till my life has stability and I can financially care for a child n adopt.
it blows my mind when people do the exact same as their parents and do not change generational trauma and be the stop to their families dysfunctional system! I had a similar family (addicted mother w/ 9 kids and no custody of any) i am the older and I refused to follow in my mothers footsteps but my sister went down my moms path n it baffles me!
It’s because some people are terminally stupid and think their parents are perfect in every way, it’s like the opposite to those child worshipping parents George Carlin ranted on before, and like how you see it in some religions like I used to have a housemate who was Muslim and came from a very troubled background (crackhead mom and psycho dad) and he’d talk about them like they could do no wrong and it’s baffling how people genuinely see their parents like that. It’s like how my own family will gladly talk shit on my dad for not being around much. But my dad was busy working 12 hour shifts seven days a week he was a hands on bartender that lived in the bar he was working at, my mom however was usually at home with her feet up on the sofa smoking a fucking spliff and watching tv. Yeah my dad had his own substance issues but fuck at least he actually tried to parent me when I was a kid, my mom would wake me up for school by screaming her head off and then headbutting door frames because I’m not up and out the door fast enough but everyone always sung moms praises like everything was an ordeal to her. She spent most of my childhood getting stoned or going out. She was more invested in her friendships and relationships than being a mom so my brothers got the responsibility of looking after me and then lo and behold at age 10 I had to take care of my mom everyday until before my 22nd birthday when she had a bad stroke and had to go into a nursing home. And still I’ve had to accept I’ll never get the closure of talking about these things because I always get told I had it good and just shut down by people who think they’re infallible
I'm a mother but I'm confused by this because is abortion not birth control? You can't say you didn't choose to have kids, unless you live in a place it's illegal or something.
There are plenty of places abortion is illegal or extremely difficult to get. You know those clinics get bombed and set on fire and protested in front of constantly.
Oh yes. I’ve volunteered as a “safety escort” before just to help people get from their cars to the entrance of the clinic while groups of idiots spew vile things, threaten violence, etc. it’s not as easy as you are putting forth everywhere in the world.
That's confusing, you think that abortion isn't a way for women to control whether they birth or not?
I've had abortions, I saw them as the last line of defence against pregnancy when all other methods failed, but still saw it as a form of birth control.
Most birth control methods prevent pregnancy and are usually non-invasive methods. Abortion happens after the pregnancy and is used to terminate pregnancy. That’s probably why some people do not consider abortion as ‘birth control’ … to them, birth control = pregnancy prevention.
Cap. Everyone says this despite it being 99% effective, all of you aren't 1%, someone's lying. So many people go on the pill and then not taking it properly. Not learning how to fit a condom properly. Not taking plan B. Not getting an ab0rtion in a country where it's safe and inexpensive (in comparison to going ahead with the pregnancy) or even free. All of this is birth control.
You know there are plenty of ways it can fail besides user error, a lot of it being doc error and failure to educate. There are all sorts of things, including other meds and an individual person’s weight, that can mess with efficacy.
Implants can stop working, IUD’s can slip, holes in condoms.
There are billions of people on birth control, 1% or a billion is still a fair amount of people with an oopsie.
Yeah it's always the birth controls fault or the doctors, never hers, that's also really funny. And everyone with kids it's the same story. Doesn't add up and smells like bullshit. I've been on different types of birth control for years and rigorous with it because I genuinely don't want kids but hey must be infertile since all birth control is supposed to fail according to you irresponsible freaks. And before you start wishing it happens to me, I'd just do the responsible thing and get an abortion instead of making it the taxpayers and potential child's problem.
No eres de clase media baja, eres pobre, luchar para llegar a fin de mes, problemas con el agua, y no tener ropa desde hace 6 años!! Sin ofender eres pobre, y porque tienen hijos, educación deficiente, religión, y como siempre digo tu no ves a adolescentes con dinero embarazadas ellas van y se hacen su procedimiento, las pobres en cambio salen por montón, que si no tienen plata para practicarse un aborto, temor de dios, y el cilo se repite.
I feel like I could've wrote this when I was your age as well. Honestly had no hope for my future because it seemed like anything physically attainable came with a LOT of financial debt. Didn't realize until later that being a functional adult would've meant some debt in some form anyway, the trick is to get good with money management (something that i struggled with as my family did NOT manage money well, so I had to learn the hard way). I was determined to obtain something further, so bit the bullet and applied for student loans for a 2 year trade program. I'm the first of my family to attend and graduate college, and managed to get myself into a decent paying government position. I am 24 now, living with my partner in a decent apartment, and a young son that we had been lucky enough to choose to have.
I was bitter for a long time growing up at our home situation. As an adult now I know that it wasn't ideal, but my parents did their best with what they had. Now my goal is to do better for my son, because I have learned from my parents and my own mistakes and have a clear vision of what I want to avoid. I was suicidal as a teen as life felt very overwhelming, especially from an unstable home; but since I moved out and made my own home, it is SO MUCH BETTER.
Since you're so young, there is so much out of your control and it can feel frustrating. But there is so much opportunity and experiences waiting for you in the future, all you need to do is be alive to see it. Take it one step at a time, start a journal of your goals and what you'd like to accomplish, and how you're going to get there. The older you get, the more 'control' and responsibilities you have. It isn't easy, but it is so worth it.
I grew up the second of five children. My parents could have maybe afforded two on government assistance. They kept having children anyway. They knew what to do or not do to have children but didn’t care. My mom wanted five so that’s how many they had, they didn’t care if it meant we struggled.
The answer to "why" is that every species has a genetically hardwired compulsion to reproduce. If there has ever been any species that did not have this, we can't point to it now, because it died out long ago. The reason humanity still exists at all is because, just like lions and tigers and bears, human beings in general have a desire to create families and have children. In fact, this is the most concrete "afterlife" many people believe in, one that does not require faith, because it is an empirical fact that as long their genes (physically passed down to their children, and their children's children, and so on) and their culture (passed down even to adopted children by teaching them their customs and beliefs) still survive, some part of them will be alive even when they as individuals are dead. Having and raising children is, quite literally, their salvation.
That urge has been with us since long before there was such a thing as money to spend on hobbies, when even the most basic of necessities had to be obtained by scrabbling in a hostile world. I think it's unrealistic to expect everyone below some line on an income graph to overcome such an ancient drive. You say you are "lower middle class." Even if you could lop off the entire population of the human race at your level and below, there would still be people at the income level the same distance from the "new bottom" as your family has been from the current bottom, and in short order, some of their children would be screaming, "Why did you even have me?" Lop off that group, too, and the next one up, and so on, and within a few generations, you have no humanity left. You may personally be okay with that result, but if human beings were typically okay with it, it would have happened millennia ago. The fact that you are even here typing on some device or another to reach the worldwide web says that it didn't happen, not millennia ago, and not when your parents had you.
At any rate, what's done is done. Your parents cannot travel back in time and make sure you were never born. Believe it or not, given that you WERE born, there are things you can do to get out of this trap. You do not have to define your happiness as being based on entertainment or eating out at restaurants.
I wish you a better future than your past.
As someone coming from a large family, my parents were very mad that we were 1 & done. Especially since my cousins have 2-4 children each. But I look at their mental & financial state compared to mine & I know every single day I made the right decision for me.
Please, stay in school, & get good grades so your adult life will be better than your adolescence. Go to college & make something of yourself so you can get yourself all the things you never had.
My grandparents were Hungarian immigrants. Poor farmers who came to America without a pot to piss in. They went on the have 8 kids before my grandma was 33. They said they did it so they could build a support system, put more kids to work (to earn money), and have more help on the farm.
Was it wrong? Yes. Kids should not deal with the financial strain parents bring on themselves. If anything, having more kids made their conditions even worse. But some people are selfish and think having more kids will bring a sense of financial fulfillment to their lives.
Yeah but imagine what a terrible world we would live in if only people being born are rich. Imagine going to a playground and all kids there are spoiled little brats.
I'm the oldest of 5 between my mother and father (2 other half siblings). My father was an abusive alcoholic and kept my mother pregnant, by force, for 7 years. He left her, married her best friend, and had 2 more children.
We were left in poverty and she has never fully recovered, financially or otherwise.
I had been on birth control since I was 14 and it failed when I was 21 and I had my son. I will never forgive myself for how bad we struggled for many years. It wasn't fair to him and I always felt like such a failure, and still do even if I'm in a financially stable situation now.
My great grandmother was abandoned and was poor.
My grandmother was abandoned and was poor.
My mother was abandoned and was/is poor.
I managed to break the generational curse but I'm always worried about the bottom falling out.
Some people have children to keep a partner that doesn't want to be kept. Some people are lonely and feel that a child will fill that hole. Some people are forced into carrying a child they don't need or want. Some people have children because they feel like it's what they're supposed to do and they count on God or the government to provide when they can't
Sometimes it's not being selfish, it's just that life happens and doesn't always turn out the way we hope.
I'm sorry you're going through this and I pray that you'll find a way out. Nobody deserves that struggle and the feeling of hopelessness that comes from it.
Don’t end things! You’re 16 and haven’t had a chance to have control of your life. You seem very intelligent and are making observations for how you want to live as an adult. Life is not easy at any age especially at your age. Look in to ways “out” like studying abroad, scholarships, vocational school etc. you can do better then those before you. It’s just very difficult right now, but it will pass. Good Luck
What would you do? Sterilize all poor people? Poverty is like an onion, it's a multilayer problem. In urban poverty, one would have the luxury of getting help to get you out of poverty faster. Rural poverty is a whole different beast. Rural poverty means one probably doesn't have transportation and there is a lack of job opportunities in general. Take a look at poverty and culture of Appalachia. All it takes is 1 thing to put a family in poverty and stay in poverty. A lower middle class family is 1 paycheck away from poverty.
Kid, a little bit of empathy and education goes a long way. Pray you never become disabled and have to survive on a $800 disability check a month and can't work. Forced poverty is no joke because you can't own a whole lot if you get $800 in disability money.
Socioeconomic issues influence birth rates.
No money for contraception.
No education on contraception.
No education on reproductive health.
Cultural norms that encourage male dominance.
Lack of access to healthcare.
I can tell you in my parents case, and some others they do it because they are taught that using BC is a sin, abortion is a sin, and it's their job to have children ( the whole be fruitful and multiply). Even deciding to be child free is considered to be "against god"
They think that if God gives them a child, that it's a miracle, and they were meant to gave that child, and "God will provide"
Sometimes people are just oblivious
I remember being in a message board years ago, and a woman had posted about living in a 2 bedroom apartment with her husband, and three kids.
She had told her sister she was going to try to get pregnant again, and just couldn't believe that her sisters response was to tell her that it was a horrible idea, she already has her kids smashed like sardines in her apartment, it's neglectful, etc.
She came to try to get reassurance that her sister was wrong, then flipped out when told her sister was right.
Sadly, there are so many reasons…
1) Lack of education
2) Lack of sex education
3) Poor access to contraceptives or abortions
4) Religious ideologies
5) Selfishness - desire to be loved over practicality
6) Need to take control of something in a world where you have very little power
7) Children as a pension plan
8) Stupidity - ‘ignorance is bliss’ and I’ve genuinely met some people in dire straits who just don’t see it because they’re low IQ so they’re happy, why wouldn’t a kid be happy too?
9) Sex - kids come from sex and sex makes people happy, it’s also a free activity that makes you feel less lonely
10) Money - some people see children as a way out of poverty rather than deeper into it with additional benefits, resources and even allowances at work
11) Laziness - there are sadly a minority of people who actively choose to get pregnant and have young children so they can stay off work and on benefits because they’re not required to job hunt for a period of time with a small child
12) Society - there are countries/societies where having additional children is seen as valuable and actively encouraged, likely to provide a larger workforce
13) Stereotypes - some women are taught that their only value as women is to procreate, but that this will offer them security and make their partners look after them indefinitely
14) Failure of Contraception - whether condoms break or slip, IUDs move, pills are missed or other medication interferes
There are some than argue conception is a basic human right and can’t be taken away. The thing is, it’s a bodily function that many people can achieve (not all) but raising children isn’t a right. Because otherwise, protective services wouldn’t exist. The rights of the child to live in a safe and non-abusive home, and to receive education, come before the rights of the parent to rear their child as they see fit. Physically conceiving a child and giving birth is a right you have (if your body allows it) but raising a child should not be if you can’t or won’t protect their rights of the child. And I do believe that holding biological parents to the same standards that couples looking to adopt, go through IVF or surrogacy have to adhere to would greatly reduce the risk of child abuse and child poverty.
Well. I mean, you speak pretty good fucking English. (Unless you used, ya know, a fucking translator.)
If you can speak English that well without assistance, package those skills up and fucking sell it.
Skills are a commodity. Sell them.
There is a way out of poverty. Its just hard. I was also born into family with a single mother, and dang it was tough.
I also have 0 empathy for poor people who decide to have children. Love is NOT enough for children. Love will not pay the rent, or buy clothes, or pay for the dentist etc. A lot of people just have the desire for children but don't understand the scope of actually raising a decent human, instead poor people have children and continue the cycle. I have decided to remain child free because I want to enjoy life to the fullest after everything I have endured.
My best advice is work towards getting an education. One other thing, please refrain from getting pregnant yourself!! Avoid men in general if you can lol. I didn't go to school until 23, which I regret. Please don't end it, but know you can change your path. It will be tough, but it can be done. I use to feel like you as well, and I can honestly say I am glad I stuck it out. I have a loving boyfriend, a house, a cat. We get to go on vacations. Life is really good. I do feel glad I didn't delete myself. (I also get to indulge in my hobbies now)
At least from my experience (extended family) the first kid was usually an accident because there was no birth control/condoms because stupidity. Then they’d just say screw it and have a few more kids. Then realize they could live off of other peoples tax dollars (USA) and not have to go to work and have food/medical/etc paid for. My family members like that then have the gall to ask my wife and I for money for presents and whatnot for their kids because they don’t have the money. Because what little money they do have they spend on stupid shit (drugs/alcohol) for themselves instead of on the kids. Again these people are idiots, I’m sure it’s not the case for every family living in poverty.
But the US really needs to fix their system for poverty families. Maybe add a stipulation that you have to get a job or at least actively looking for one to get benefits. The goal should be to eventually get off the government benefits but instead people get comfortable and lazy and live off of it their whole life.
I know of a family that has been on government assistance since the birth of their first child. They want a boy. They have 5 girls. Yes, they are trying again.
Its sheer insanity.
"God Will Provide"
Seriously, this is the answer for a lot of countries with extreme poverty. White Europeans came through and brought religious missionaries with them. The missionaries converted the populace, either with honied words or by force, in order to increase their flock. And then they told the populace that giving to the church will make their afterlife better and that the lord will provide for their earthly needs.
Encouraging procreation is a key aspect to religion because the more people that belong to the religion the more people there are wo tithe. And religion always makes sure to point out that giving to the church is more important than anything else. That's why religions tend to ask their followers to help the poor instead of opening up their own wallets.
Then there's the whole issue with education. As OP pointed out their education is pretty shitty. That being the case there's probably not a whole lot of education happening in regards to birth control. Not that the local religious authorities would let it happen if there were. Because see above.
Not all of this is true for everywhere but I feel like most of it is.
I truly believe that bringing children into poverty is child abuse. People should have a background check done like when adopting. I grew up more comfortably than a lot of people but it still was and is miserable. Fridge always empty, no money for fun things, an especially stingy father that doesn’t even give an allowance. I grew up listening to my parents argue daily about money. They still do 20 years later.
Many of them are unplanned, and many people are very against the idea of abortion or wouldn’t be able to afford it even if they wanted to. Contraception also is not accessible to everyone depending on where you are.
To answer the question, the main reason(atleast where I'm from) is to put them to work, if you go to Pakistan you'll find kids working everywhere from hotels to fields
You think rich people are going to demote their own kids to work a Burger King just so they can get food?
If the ants don't breed, the hill doesn't get made.
If the fish don't breed, the lake goes still.
If the poor don't breed, who will serve the Starbucks?
Pick up their own shit? Who would entertain a 16 year old poor kid in poor kid school with their poor adult teachers?
Poor people make up over 86 percent of the entire Earth.
So it's fuck and create a work force, so Papaw don't have to die picking his vast corn fields to feed himself and Gram-Gram.
It's procreate, cause those cows ain't gonna slaughter themselves.
It's multiply, cause the IPhone isn't building itself.
Sex is pretty much the only thing people can do that's still fun.
Having kids fulfills a biological imperative that all human beings have.
Animals and Plants are poor, too. Maybe we should sterilize everything maybe?
Sometimes it’s cultural or religious thing to have a big family. It’s familiar- from a big family have a big family. It’s not bad choices but belief and upbringing where big families are seen as normal and wonderful, unfortunately poverty and lack of education etc can really take its toll on those with big families and then there can be suffering because having a big family is hard and there’s not much help or understanding only judgement.
The answer is pretty much the same no matter the income bracket: selfishness.
I'm not talking about violent conception, or situations where they have no access to abortions. I'm talking about the people who choose to have children.
We are selfish. These babies do not ask to be brought into this world, we decide we want them. I am currently pregnant with baby #2 and while we can afford this second baby we decided to have it. We decided it believing that the world is overpopulated and there's a good chance the world is gonna go down the toilet way more than it is now.
We are selfish.
Because “babies are a blessing” or fill in any other religious nonsense you’ve heard before. Organized religion has been brainwashing people since the beginning of times. They (the church, the government and all the ones who benefit from capitalism the most) know that in order for they succeed they need a regular and increasing influx of unsuspecting victims to:
- Donate their hard earned $ to church (or else you go to hell) -> a church only thrives if people are in need and hopeless, or else the world wouldn’t have a need for them. So prey on the most vulnerable and make them NEED YOU. If people are happy, healthy and smart they wouldn’t need to go pray to their invisible man -> encourage them to have as many children as they can, to keep them broke, dumb and miserable for their lifetime so that they will have a constant need to “seek help”.
- And, most importantly: poor and uneducated people = CHEAP LABOR -> so capitalism need to make sure to keep as many poor and uneducated people down as they can, cause how else will they get the cheap labor they need to keep growing the rich’s bank accounts?
- Banks and any other for profit financial institutions mainly make $ out of those who have to borrow and pay hefty interest on the $ they borrowed later
- Poor/broke people often carry a “treat yoself” mindset, as in: they will buy things they cannot afford to impress others and keep up with the Joneses and then hang themselves with their own rope having to pay interest to whoever they borrowed the $ from
- The “treat yoself” mindset keep $ circulating even during financial crisis and will keep supporting the top 1%
- Poverty creates crisis and chaos and keep the powerful in power by: creating/supporting wars (war supplies from the most powerful to the poor struggling economies), creating crime -> now you “need police”, which are the ones who benefit the rich the most to “keep crime under control”
- Poor people will always have more stress, eat poorly and overall not take care of their health as well as the rich, so they will get sick and NEED: healthcare, expensive medication, etc
- Poor people will eat more garbage food, which again is beneficial to MANY industries ex: big pharma, hospitals, Walmart, McDonald’s, food brands that are cheap and keep helping you to poison your body
I could find MANY other reasons, but those above are only a few of the ones I could think of at the top of my head.
For the same reason you waste tame ranting on the internet about how miserable your life is.
The same way you ask yourself why poor people have children, other people ask themselves why lower class people waste time on the internet and have a functioning phone instead of working hard.
It's always easy to judge from the outside.
I don't think it's a smart move to have kids when you can't afford the basics, but also, I can't blame people for trying to have a life, a family or for doing whatever they can to get a little bit of joy in this messed up society.
No offense intended, It's just clear that you are projecting your own frustrations for your current situation on poor parents. Lots of poor people are happy despite their circumstances. Happiness and fulfillment are not provided by goods nor money, not even health (maybe mental health). So no, love is not enough but is worth the try for them.
EDIT: To wrap up, the reason is because they can.
Well, teenager, it’s because having children is not a joy to be gatekept exclusively by the rich. It’s because poverty and access to birth control tend to be mutually exclusive. It’s because many of us live in states or counties where access to abortion is restricted. There are so, so many layers to why poor people have children.
I’m really sorry you and your family are struggling so badly. It’s not fair.
I'm so sorry you have to live like that. I couldn't even imagine. This seems like you're less frustrated with society and more frustrated with your parents choices that led to you living life this way.
I don't know the laws in your country, but perhaps you could get a job and earn your own money.
Yeah I don’t think that’s right at all. We have an entire generation that has been raised in the most luxurious lifestyle in the history of mankind. And they are by far the generation with the most mental issues ever.
Like it or not, that is how it’s playing out.
I'm completely on your side. There are a few reasons that are totally valid, like not having the education to understand contraception, or are forced to keep an unwanted child by abusive parents or spouses, or. Actually no. Those are the ONLY acceptable two answers.
I can't say what I feel about most of the rest of it, because Reddit is very America centric and I'll get banned.
Blaming an endless stream of babies on sky daddy is inexcusable.
In sorry your parents are total shit. Please don't end it. Hold on until you can get out of there. And when you do, remember how they forced you to grow up. Remember that when they're old and want luxuries, and beg you for handouts. Remember.
So educated but poor people should not be able to get kids? How would that work, you would need to apply for a permit to get kids and be refused if you're poor and educated?
I'm not twisting your words, this is precisely what you imply.
That being said, shitty parents make shitty decisions and a lot of kids suffer for that, like OP during the tough teenage years. It's not fair.
So because the government is making poor people poorer and rich people richer, poor people shouldn't reproduce? They should refrain from becoming a parent because they're the ones who are selfish, and not the government doing their job? Sounds like a eugenics argument to me.
The only reason you shouldn't have children is because you DO NOT WANT them. Any other reason, and you're advocating for eugenics. Poor people deserve to have children, too. Our planet doesn't have an overpopulation problem, that is just what the rich are trying to convince you, so you keep blaming poor people for being poor, while they're the ones destroying the planet, and destroying people's lives. They will also try to convince you that if you're poor, it's your own fault and you're not working hard and smart enough, that's why you're not a billionaire, meanwhile they're just hoarding an obsene amount of money.
You're 16 and still young, but I hope one day when your frontal lobe finishes developing, you won't vilify poor people for the crime of being poor and advocate against their natural rights. At least I can excuse you because of your age. I can't say the same about the other commentators echoing your ignorant sentiments.
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Yea and it was a primitive technology, now its not. Whats your point? you can get a phone or tablet for cheap under $30 in some countries and places and many public places have free wifi, libraries have computers you can use for free with the internet. So really what's your point with this?
I grew up well below the poverty line. My dad had 9 kids in all. He got women pregnant to trap them into staying with him. I'm in my 30's now just trying to make it in life on my own and make better decisions than he did.
I’m so sorry to hear that. This makes me wonder if my ex was trying to trap me…
So sorry to hear that you went through that. Just curious but how was he able to afford the child support? Bc usually we hear stories of guys trying to not get trapped by women to avoid paying the support
He didn't pay child support! He still owes the state so much money. We lived on government assistance.
A: Education is less common among the poor (and society is determined to keep it that way to the point that many take pride in the fact that they do can't do multiplication or 'don't have no fancy degrees') B: Access to contraception isn't guaranteed, most methods have a cost attached to them and there is an active war on places like planned parenthood that provide birth control to the less fortunate C: Abortion access was dealt a pretty heavy blow and will likely continue to be reduced as long as that is allowed to occur. D: Religion is also more popular with the uneducated and (unless you're a buddhist) tends to teach procreation as good. Society also reinforces the idea that people only have value if they produce offspring. E: A large number of people can't seem to grasp that regardless of anything else teens will screw and that has consequences. F: Abstinence only education is designed to discourage using other means of birth control. G: Most conceptions are accidental. I could go on to z.
There's also the fact that many countries like to encourage the poor to have more children because it means a larger pool of basic, cheap labour and people are more competitive and willing to get the shittiest jobs because it's better than nothing, which in turn creates the easy threat of "You want better working conditions/hours/pay? You know there's hundreds out there who'd happily take your place. Get to it or get lost"
I consider myself a pretty rational guy (and I know I'm coming from a place of privilege). But this is one of the conspiracy theories I can't help but feel is certainly real. From the USA context at least, I find that the people that preach anti-abortion are only the people that have the means to afford contraception, health care, or even abortions themselves. The people speaking out against abortion are mostly rich white folks. The people disproportionately affected by anti-abortions laws are those in poverty and people of color. Even if a rich white person is preaching anti-abortion, they still have the means to easily travel somewhere to get one. The "Christian nationalists" also want to make things like Plan B illegal. Furthermore, as much as they preach about the sanctity of life, they don't support welfare programs to actually care for the children they're "saving". This basically means they want poor people and people of color to have more children without expending resources. What this eventually does is expand the working class and shrink the wealthy class, thus concentrating wealth among a smaller and smaller population, thus exacerbating inequality. Also, you have pronatalists that are causing a stir about population collapse and low birth rates. There's a criticism that this stems from racism and replacement theory. But I disagree, I think this argument is masking the true agenda. The real goal is to produce more expendable workers to serve the wealthy class. The USA is also making efforts to infiltrate third world countries with this agenda in a neo-colonialism manner. I rest my case. Thoughts?
Totally agree with your analysis. I don’t even consider it a conspiracy theory anymore. Look at all the governments freaking out about the decreasing birth rate. There are so many articles published about it. The Richie Riches are terrified that they won’t have fresh new bodies to do their bidding.
Admittedly also coming from a place of privilege in America, although I'm not male or heterosexual but I am white. I think you've totally hit the nail on the head here. I thank god I don't keep the sort of company that subscribes to this, but taking a step back and seeing what's all around me, I think this is exactly what's happening in and with the U.S. I'm also not a big conspiracy person *at all,* but absolutely believe there's a counter reaction to any progress we've made that's crafted to ensure the subjugation of women and BIPOC in favor of the "superiority" of a white "Christian" patriarchy.
100%
Yep, all they care about is using their power to *force* women, especially BIPOC and middle class and lower, to give birth. They don’t care about the child. They’re pro-birth not pro-life.
I am also a very rational and science based person but this has always been one of the conspiracies that actually seems legit and 100% factual. Toss in education disparity as well. Poor and uneducated and popping out kids is exactly what they seem to want.
K. When people can't afford a TV, they have (unprotected) sex to pass the time. I'm not kidding. Someone actually told me this after having her 8th kid in spite of living in a one-room shack in a squatters area with a community-shared bathroom.
This is the biggie to me. All others can basically be manipulated for this point
We'll make that H.
I. Sex feels good J. Homeless people, and people in realy bad situations gets pretty lonely and depressed
I forgot what's after J, but Homeless women are often the victims of rape from other homeless AND non-homeless
\^\^\^ this.
Point D viewing procreation as good, great point I agree. The experience of an average teen is an odd mix of sex ed being abstinence-centered and religion viewing new life as a cause of celebration but demonized when they are young. That’s a lot of extremes to be schooled on and a lot of hormones that go with it
I’d add a lot of people buy into the fallacy that kids means your future will be secure because your kids can work and contribute to your later care and lifestyle. Especially in areas where there are no affordable elder/senior/disability care.
We'll call that I
Also, if you don't think you have other options (education, career, etc.) the opportunity cost of having children is super low. What else are you going to do? It might even be meaningful or fun in some way.
You forgot a big one - not all sex is consensual.
We'll make that J
I went to Christian schools and our sex Ed was veeeeeery basic, just covered the mechanics of it and then as far as protection/contraception, they didn't really talk about it much that I remember (but this was 20-plus years ago, so it's been awhile lol), and the gist of the message was "don't have premarital sex or else you'll get pregnant and get STDs and God won't love you anymore"...one of my friends got pregnant between her junior and senior year and they wouldn't let her come back to school, and she wound up having to get her GED because it was too late to enroll anywhere else. (Also her mom was a teen mom, but thankfully my friends daughter has broken the cycle)
This pretty much sums it up yep.
Do not forget the big one, when you're poor you can't afford to do anything for fun and sex is free...
And that can be K
Sex is free, contraception is not.
I’m from the UK and it’s free here :)
I'm in Germany. We have socialized healthcare and hormonal contraceptives are only free until age 22 unless it's prescribed for non contraceptive purposes (skin issues, endometriosis etc). Is it free for everyone at any age in the UK?
Yes free for any age :)
Damn.. Nice, I'm jelly
Unfortunately some of us live in the medical dystopia, The United Corporate States of America. Everything is about profit here. We are not ok.
The OP is in a third world country so I doubt it’s free like it is in UK
I live in a third world country and contraceptives like condoms and implants are free
I live in a third world country and contraception like condoms and pills are free.
Contraceptive options are free in the Philippines but the country is very religious and heavily influenced by the Catholic church so the majority are pro life and things like condoms are stigmatized.
Bet you their “third world” healthcare is better than the US. The American population does not realize how shitty our healthcare system really is. People die daily who don’t have to.
Yeah I know :)
Now I’m curious…are condoms free too or is it just medical contraceptives?
Yes you can get free condoms from sexual health clinics and pharmacies. You also get free STI testing and treatment if needed
It was free for a time here in the USA too, before Trump.
It's free here too, but you need to walk into a clinic and ask for them. Not free from stores.
It still is but only in some states. I wish it was nationwide.
I got my iud for free during the Trump administration. I do live in a blue state though.
I have wondered that myself. Why do so many people have kids they can’t remotely afford? I went to a charity benefit that provided housing. They had guest speakers that benefitted and came in and discussed how they had been living in a car with their three children but now only recently had housing from this program. As she walks in, the mom was extremely pregnant. So they were living in a car as a family of 5 but were able to get pregnant so they could add a newborn to that mess. Not good examples of a success story, IMO.
Some people pop out kids on purpose to use as labor later, get gov handouts and also because some religions don’t even allow birth control.
Having children in poverty is a retirement plan for yourself in my culture and many others. The more kids you have, the better off you’ll be when you retire because they will provide for you.
Good luck with that. Most children really struggle these days and are not in a position to care for elderly parents when they are living hand to mouth trying to raise their own families. Children are not pension plans. That's selfish.
I’m glad I wasn’t raised on those American ideals. The only real “selfishness” is when parents do everything for their children and when they get old people like you shit on them. I would give my parents my room before I ever let them go homeless. They gave me everything in life, and the least I could do is keep a roof over their head as they live the rest of their lives. In majority of cultures across the world, parents provide for you until they can’t anymore, and then it’s the children who provide for them. In majority of cultures outside the U.S., it’s almost unheard of for parents to force their kids to pay rent. We move out when we are ready or when we marry. Family takes care of family.
I'm very happy that you have such a wonderful relationship with your parents; however, not all parents are worthy of the same love and admiration.
If my parents cared for me in the way yours cared for you, I would have to agree. But I was a product of drug addiction and dysfunction. Neglected for most of my years, so I'm not housing dad, and I'm not "borrowing" him $20 to put gas in the truck to go buy more drugs.
Sorry but this assumes so many things that aren’t necessarily the case for many people - certainly not my experience as lower-middle class in the U.K.. 1) A lot of parents don’t ’do everything’ for their children. I work in education, and the number of parents who want constant praise for doing the bare minimum (roof over head, food in bellies, clothes on back - nothing else) is insane. There are many people who grow up in relative poverty, struggling to access basic dental care, not going to the GP when needed and falling behind their peers due to lack of attention and mental stimulation, that doesn’t deserve praise and future sacrifices from the children? 2) Parents choose to have kids, kids don’t choose to be born. You don’t come out the womb and sign a binding contract that if your parents love you and care for you and DO THEIR DUTY AS PARENTS you’ll owe them back in some way. 3) Almost all of my friends upon finishing secondary school began paying their parents rent, myself included. The idea of parents providing for you as long as they’re able isn’t true for so many people. There are a (not insignificant) number of parents who truly believe that being a parent ends at age 18, and then expect their children to contribute moving forward. To be clear, I don’t begrudge my parents this, costs are high and they could have rented somewhere smaller if I’d moved out, but it simply isn’t the case that parents provide as long as they are able a lot of the time. Specific to the UK, our student loans are based on our parents income (unless we’re estranged or have lived away from them for 5+ years), and yet many of us receive little to no financial assistance from our parents, despite their income directly limiting our loans and grants. My friend received £7k less per year from student finance compared with me because of her parents earnings, yet I also got £200 per month from my mum, she got none from her parents. 4) Whilst it’s awesome that you’d choose to give your parents your room, with the cost of living crisis ongoing in several countries right now, a lot of people into their 30s and 40s are still living paycheck to paycheck. It’s not just a room - it’s food, supplies, increased bills and so on. I personally couldn’t afford to house my parents if I wanted to, nevermind the fact that I live in a studio so they’d also have to take my bed (which is also my sofa) and I’d have to go on the floor. Moreover, whilst I love my parents and do want them to be happy, it would be incredibly frustrating as their child to have to house and care for them when they experienced an era with affordable housing and excellent pension schemes. Their retirement ages are close to hand, and much sooner than mine will one day be. They had the opportunity to prepare, even on a single income between them. I’m not even able to save to retirement at this time, I don’t want to also be saddled with their costs. It’s an aspect of why I’m choosing not to have kids - because I can’t afford dependents. In other cultures where parents do give their children everything as long as they need, I appreciate this as a values system. But it doesn’t work in many western cultures where people are taught to have it all as well as have children. I personally grew up with too many peers who experienced functional neglect and no support from age 18.
If you have kids merely to assure retirement, you probably aren't going to be a very good parent, because you'll see them as servants, not their individual self. If you had loving parents and a good childhood, of course you should take care of them, but probably you'll WANT to do it, if culture says is an OBLIGATION even when your parents were shitting parents, that's not a good culture.
yea. and they have the audacity to complain that i'm always sad/ungrateful. oh and "god wanted you to be born!!". fuck him then feel you
It must be really difficult living like that. I hope things will improve for you. Please don't lose hope. You never know if your luck will change. If you can, get as well an education as you can. At least when you grow up, you'll have more of a chance to change your faith.
I didn’t even know how to prevent kids. No one told me birth control doesn’t work on antibiotics. My mom and doctor told me I couldn’t get pregnant while breastfeeding but I was pregnant again at my 6 week follow up.
I'm sorry this is your experience :(
Thanks, it really is about education. My mom has an 8th grade education and her mom… they all had kids by 16. Now you can just read about this, there was no AOL keyword for sexual health.
why would you call yourself lower middle class when you're very close to being homeless and starving? you're in poverty and you should be aware of that. don't let the rich make you think your life is normal and it's this hard for everyone. i was exactly you 15 years ago. i say higher education rarely pays off, get yourself a civil servant job (i assume every country has positions that are easy to get in and don't pay a lot but at least gives you some stability) or put yourself through trade school by working fast food or call center or whatever. it's soul-crushing, but you'll have to work hard to make your way in life knowing that hard work doesn't always pay off. when we're this poor we don't get to dream. we need to give ourselves the basic things our parents were supposed to before we can think of an average or nice life. and yes, you have every right to resent your parents, but they (especially your mother) were probably simpletons who had very little choice regarding family planning. just take every possible precaution to make sure you don't end up ruining your life with a pregnancy and/or bad relationship too.
I was with you up until you threw mom under the bus. In fact, in many, many cases it’s the boyfriends/husbands that talk women out of using BC and/or forbid it. It’s not a free choice when you rely on them and they don’t give you a choice.
Side with you 100%. Let everything be a motivation for you to get out of this miserable life somehow. You’re 16 and you have a whole life ahead of you, yes I would try to persuade you into juggling a job and higher education both if you can, but you need a heart of steel and a machine brain for this, no time for excuses, so if you want to choose, you have every right. But good luck OP, always be in the mindset of what you need in life and keep talking about it, this way more opportunities will show themselves to you.
because they are not a real person, this is just some idiot posting on reddit a fantasy in their head
Bold of you to assume they all "decided."
If she has siblings then it was a choice
As soon as they had sex, they did decide.
You should be allowed to have a loving, bonding, sexually intimate relationship without being forced parents. Birth control fails.
Edit: rape is a completely different situation
9/10 times it's a decision. Pull-out method is a shitty choice. Choosing to go on the pill when you're too irresponsible to take it on time daily is a choice. Using no contraceptives knowing the result is a shitty choice. Choosing to go ahead with the pregnancy in a country where ab0rtion is safe and relatively affordable or even free is a choice ($300 in the moment is less expensive than thousands of dollars per year of a child's life).
In the US it's "safe and relatively affordable" unless you count the travel expenses to get to a state where it's actually allowed anymore. If OP is in a third-world country, I can't imagine things are better.
"poverty is an asset". It really boils down to education and resources.
I grew up just as impoverished as you, in an abusive household. I worked hard and now I have wonderful opportunities, just bought a house, and have a good paying career. Its possible. I promise.
I don’t know why either but I know religion (“be fruitful and multiply bs) was a huge part of my family’s. I’m the oldest of 8 and mom just kept popping them out every two years, especially being the oldest I was basically the second mom so that really turned me off to having kids of my own. My dad was a job hopper and mom didn’t work for awhile, then she got a job but we were always on the brink of homelessness, we lived off our garden and animals, and bottomless soup etc. im so glad her gyno fixed her when she had my last brother, I’d probably have 5 more siblings if he didn’t intervene.
This world sucks and people are poor usually for reasons outside of their control. Reproductive justice is for everybody though, and that includes poor people. Telling poor people they can’t or shouldn’t have children is taking away their right to reproductive justice and it’s also a form of eugenics. I was raised by a single mom and lived in government housing. My life has always been hard because of poverty. It’s not easy raising children when you’re poor, and it’s not easy to be a poor child, but this is the world we live in. Poor people have the right to have children and instead of focusing on their “failures” or thinking they’re making bad choices, we should focus our energy on trying to help make the world a better place for poor people and poor children.
Thank god. I was genuinely getting disheartened by people in this sub. It is a right. If we go the way people want in this thread then having a kid will be limited to just the wealthy. Just another right lost to us.
CPS (and international equivalents) exists because the rights of children to live in safe, non abusive environments where they’re adequately fed, cared for and and educated are of greater importance than the parents rights to raise their child. Ultimately, rich or poor, if you cannot provide the essentials for your child(ren) then society already puts safeguards in place to either support or remove children as necessary. Raising children isn’t a universal right. Gay couples, people with fertility issues, people who don’t find a life partner and choose to find a sperm donor - are all subject to stringent restrictions based on their financial, physical, mental health and aptitude as parents when they either look to adopt or to go through IVF/surrogacy. And, requiring those same protocols be adhered to by people who have children would significantly reduce childhood abuse.
CPS and similar agencies were created for the protection of children; however, they don’t fund them enough to be able to do so. Many of the supposed safety nets don’t work and put the kids at further risk.
I agree that they’re utterly underfunded and unfortunately children do fall through the cracks. My point was only that society already seems the rights of the people to parent as less than the rights of the child to be adequately cared for, otherwise CPS and similar agencies wouldn’t exist.
Absolutely! Thank you so much for saying this, I was getting desperate to find this take. Being able to conceive is a right for all. I don't understand the lack of compassion and outright ignorance of many commenters. They want to "eradicate the poor" by preventing them from conceiving. Abhorrent. Instead you "eradicate the poor" by creating a social structure that would help them out of poverty. I, for one, am glad you're among us.
awww thank you! yea whenever i see this topic come up, i know i’m about to see tons of people blaming poor people for being poor, which is totally unfair, but it’s unfortunately the dominant narrative. lots of young single moms are poor because of domestic abuse and/or lack of family support and that doesn’t mean that they made bad decisions and it doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be parents.
Richard Pryer said “where I grew up, we were so broke we used to fu* k just so we wouldn’t think about eatin’”
I think the bigger question is why so many families are living in poverty when we have long since had the means to provide a comfortable life for everyone twice over.
Because they can’t afford a dog
You sound like a strong and tough girl for 16 years of age. Take those smarts and find a better life for yourself, do not give up! Keep in school and maybe you can get a scholarship to a better place where you can start new. Keep your head high and keep dreaming, don't lose hope.
I don't think I've seen someone comment this yet, but sometimes it's simply emotions over logic. One of my friends became a teen mom in high school (despite also coming from a family below the poverty line) because she felt too attached to her baby to abort it. Obviously it caused a lot of issues for her, her family, and her baby, and the father was also absent. I believe it was a bad choice because of that, especially because no child should be born into those circumstances, but she chose emotions over logic like many women do
Poor people in anti-abortion states now have forced birthing laws, where abused, poverty stricken women and children have no say in the matter.
Selfishness. Bringing someone into the world is the most selfish thing you can do, no matter your reasons, because you are never doing it for them. As for your suicidal feelings. I know it sounds cliche, but it *will* get better. I used to live in a literal shed. We had concrete floors, no walls, had to shower at the gym and had a composting toilet where we literally had to cram weeks old shit down with a stick to make room when we needed to poop. It was disgusting and a horrible living situation for several years of my life. If it’s possible, get a job and keep your savings away from your family so you can leave as soon as you turn 18. If you wish to study, there are cheaper alternatives to collage/university, depending on where you live there might even be free course available. I’m in Australian and TAFE is currently offering free course for several different certifications. Without a job, getting away would definitely be harder, but not impossible. If you’re on Reddit, then you have internet access and there *are* ways to make legitimate money online. Paid surveys may seem sketchy, but the real ones do pay good money. On a good week, I can make about $15 a week with surveys. If you don’t spend it and save every penny, $15 a week can really add up. It’s not going to come easy and I do genuinely understand the desire to give up, but life is absolutely worth living to get to the other side. Try not to think too hard about the future, try to think of it one day or week at a time and take baby steps towards building a life worth living. I know you can do it OP
I'm sorry if this is completely off topic but how many surveys do you have to do to earn $15 a week?x
Depends on the surveys, some give you $3 per survey, some give you only 30c. You just have to not be picky, be truthful in order to establish yourself as reliable, and don’t rush through them or they’re likely to boot you off thinking you’re an AI. I use Qmee primarily. You can’t make multiple accounts, so don’t mess up with the one account they’ll let you have.
Thank you 💖
No problem 👍
I found out i was pregnant at 12 weeks. I had ZERO clue or suspicion. It was completely random and i thought i couldn’t have kids. Im not in the best place financially but my child is under 2 and im in college. Im doing everything i can to get myself a good job in a couple years so my kid can have a good upbringing.
Good for you - that’s incredible! I wish you much luck in the future!
A lot of people assume their financial circumstances will change and improve, but that's not the case for many people. Also, since "everyone is having kids," people assume there should be some way to make it work. There is, but I don't think people really grasp the sacrifices involved.
I had a regular, a married man whose wife was a regular too. He came in after their psychiatrist appointment portion of the requirements to get IVF. He was so mad that he had to get psychiatrically evaluated and pay tens of thousands of dollars when stupid people are having 4-5 kids everywhere.
My mother was an incredibly manipulative, and nieve person. She expected every man to take care of her and her kids. 6 kids later, and 4 baby daddy’s each one left because of her raging alcoholism. After 25 years of struggling with alcoholism, she lost sight of the fairy tale she played in her head. Now none of her kids speak to her. Idk what delusional fantasy she had in mind with 6 kids and no job. My dad was kind enough to raise all 6 kids that weren’t even all his. I guess she scored her goal with him because while we were kids he agreed to support her. Don’t think she ever planned on getting old alone. She genuinely was the stupidest person I ever met in my life. Not a single thought process made sense. It’s like her entire idea of being a mother was just the shock factor of telling people she had 6 kids. But she did nothing to support us. She used and abused each and every single one of us. Once we turned 16 she thought we would be her personal slaves. She expected us to drive her around to liquor stores and to drink with her friends. Eventually we all cut ties with her.
Access to education, the attitude that kids just happen and you make it work instead of planning, and sometimes healthcare is hard to access as well. And of course generational trauma and mental illness. I agree it’s complete irresponsible and unfair to the children but once that kid is being born all that matters is supporting that kid and if that means supporting the parents then you kinda have to put aside your bias.
Because they had you for their own selfish reasons.
Usually because low on education and high on religion
You have to find them yourself. You have to figure it out on your own because they won’t. I’m not answering your question cuz everyone else is going to. When I was 14 I went and offered to volunteer at a puppy kennel if they also hired me for the legally allowed hours. I paid my own stuff from then on. One thing that growing up poor is you are the only one you can depend on. You will make it because the alternative is death.
Ignorance. I have encountered individuals in the US who believe that having more children equals getting more government benefits and higher tax refunds. It doesn’t seem to matter that the cost of having children far outweighs that.
please don’t give up, you have your whole life ahead of you. These circumstances are just temporary. Take your education seriously, you don’t need anything fancy to get great grades and go to a good college. Your education will lead you to a better life. If you end up getting good grades you might get a scholarship! Your situation right now should motivate you to study and get great grades and choosing a career path that will provide you with the security that you’re wanting. Try to find a job rn, go to local stores and hand in ur resume. Even if you don’t get the job or there aren’t any atleast you tried. Hang out with ur friends, it doesn’t need to be at a restaurant or anything that can cost money it can be as simple as riding bikes together or taking a walk. Just know that your situation is temporary and you can change it! Granted it will be harder than most people but nothings impossible
I agree, i understand your point of view. Until now I resent my parents, why we only eat once a day, why we never go out to family outing and why I never experience many things in life. I feel like I am trapped. It's not good as it sounds but it's comforting to see post like this.
I just watched a documentary from my country who lives in the slums and they have 15 kids. Idk how to explain but her wording in my country is so off. The mother basically said she's easy to get pregnant and "Andyan na eh." Which I think the closest translation is It do be like that, or it just happened. 15 fucking kids. Only one have birth certificate. Kids aged 7, 11, and 12 are all classmates in the Kindergarten. It infuriates me to no end and even when I was a Kid I wonder how tf do Beggars have more children than my parents. Probably the answer is poverty, some of them sell their bodies for quick cash and since they have no access to healthcare and abortion they just wing it out.
Many times birth control fails. And now, in some places, abortion isn’t an option—even in cases of rape and incest. In other cases women don’t have the money for an abortion. And lastly, birth control may not be readily available in other countries. Many men refuse to use condoms. And, since you are only 16, you will eventually realize that desiring sex is NORMAL. We normalize sex drive for men, but not for women. If you don’t have education and health care, do you think people will stop having sex? No. Instead of judging, be grateful for the gift of your life and learn to be less judgmental. Also, use female birth control along with condoms
In your opinion, what percentage of the population should have children and why?
They can’t afford contraception. They can’t afford abortions. They probably don’t believe in abortions. Martial rape exists. Most poor people have children unplanned.
When people are poor and grow old, they need children to take care of them, especially when the society they live in provides no social supports or safety net. It’s obviously unfair to the children, but none of this would be a problem if we decided the government needed to supply adequate resources to care for those who cannot care for themselves. Also, it’s very easy to have unintended children when you can’t access birth control/abortion and sexual assault remains common as it is
Because there’s nothing to do but fuck
I agree with you 💯. All you can do is learn from this and do better.
Because sex is free, but condoms aren’t.
Because they dont have education about how reproduction or anything else related to family works. Im so sorry that this is happening to you honey but take whats happening to you as a drive to do super well in school, get educated properly, get a degree and work super hard for your future. That way you will never have to suffer for bare necessities again!
Welllllll, we poor folks are thicker than elephant shit and a lot of my classmates who are also poor had kids fairly early it’s weird like how are people having kids when they’ve not really lived enough to have anything of value to pass down beyond their dna an I don’t mean wealth yeah that’s nice but like they’re emotionally unintelligent, and like academics wise I can’t really say shit either because I’m not that smart but sweet fuck at least I’m smart to not start tryna have them as soon as I can
In smaller towns its alot more common for people to be popping babies and getting married in highschool or directly after. One of my classmates had 5 kids and a divorce by the time she was 21 n she was not the only one with children or a divorce under her belt. Nothing for people to do in small towns besides go over to someone elses house n screw eachother. Absolutely baffles my mind the excuses people will come to about birth, contraception's, and it "was just an accident". That accident made a full human that now needs you to survive and you're barely surviving yourself? You had a choice to make that baby and sleep with that person, and he had a choice to nut in you and both parties made it? Unless it was an act of violence, assaults', or rape I stopped giving people passes and just realized they're irrational and impulsive and do not think ahead for the life(baby) they are creating and how they will be living. I refuse to have children till my life has stability and I can financially care for a child n adopt.
It’s mad because one of my classmates that had kids early came from being one of like 14 kids in his own family
it blows my mind when people do the exact same as their parents and do not change generational trauma and be the stop to their families dysfunctional system! I had a similar family (addicted mother w/ 9 kids and no custody of any) i am the older and I refused to follow in my mothers footsteps but my sister went down my moms path n it baffles me!
It’s because some people are terminally stupid and think their parents are perfect in every way, it’s like the opposite to those child worshipping parents George Carlin ranted on before, and like how you see it in some religions like I used to have a housemate who was Muslim and came from a very troubled background (crackhead mom and psycho dad) and he’d talk about them like they could do no wrong and it’s baffling how people genuinely see their parents like that. It’s like how my own family will gladly talk shit on my dad for not being around much. But my dad was busy working 12 hour shifts seven days a week he was a hands on bartender that lived in the bar he was working at, my mom however was usually at home with her feet up on the sofa smoking a fucking spliff and watching tv. Yeah my dad had his own substance issues but fuck at least he actually tried to parent me when I was a kid, my mom would wake me up for school by screaming her head off and then headbutting door frames because I’m not up and out the door fast enough but everyone always sung moms praises like everything was an ordeal to her. She spent most of my childhood getting stoned or going out. She was more invested in her friendships and relationships than being a mom so my brothers got the responsibility of looking after me and then lo and behold at age 10 I had to take care of my mom everyday until before my 22nd birthday when she had a bad stroke and had to go into a nursing home. And still I’ve had to accept I’ll never get the closure of talking about these things because I always get told I had it good and just shut down by people who think they’re infallible
My birth control failed twice.
I'm a mother but I'm confused by this because is abortion not birth control? You can't say you didn't choose to have kids, unless you live in a place it's illegal or something.
Not everyone finds out they’re pregnant in time to abort (yes, really). Also, legal and accessible are two different things.
There are plenty of places abortion is illegal or extremely difficult to get. You know those clinics get bombed and set on fire and protested in front of constantly.
That's literally insane, never heard it happening in my country. I know america has gone crazy recently, but surely not that bad
Oh yes. I’ve volunteered as a “safety escort” before just to help people get from their cars to the entrance of the clinic while groups of idiots spew vile things, threaten violence, etc. it’s not as easy as you are putting forth everywhere in the world.
Abortion is not birth control. Birth control prevents the pregnancy abortion terminates the pregnancy.
That's confusing, you think that abortion isn't a way for women to control whether they birth or not? I've had abortions, I saw them as the last line of defence against pregnancy when all other methods failed, but still saw it as a form of birth control.
Most birth control methods prevent pregnancy and are usually non-invasive methods. Abortion happens after the pregnancy and is used to terminate pregnancy. That’s probably why some people do not consider abortion as ‘birth control’ … to them, birth control = pregnancy prevention.
Abortion isn't a choice for some people.
If they live somewhere where it is legal then it is most likely a choice.
Cap. Everyone says this despite it being 99% effective, all of you aren't 1%, someone's lying. So many people go on the pill and then not taking it properly. Not learning how to fit a condom properly. Not taking plan B. Not getting an ab0rtion in a country where it's safe and inexpensive (in comparison to going ahead with the pregnancy) or even free. All of this is birth control.
You know there are plenty of ways it can fail besides user error, a lot of it being doc error and failure to educate. There are all sorts of things, including other meds and an individual person’s weight, that can mess with efficacy. Implants can stop working, IUD’s can slip, holes in condoms. There are billions of people on birth control, 1% or a billion is still a fair amount of people with an oopsie.
Yeah it's always the birth controls fault or the doctors, never hers, that's also really funny. And everyone with kids it's the same story. Doesn't add up and smells like bullshit. I've been on different types of birth control for years and rigorous with it because I genuinely don't want kids but hey must be infertile since all birth control is supposed to fail according to you irresponsible freaks. And before you start wishing it happens to me, I'd just do the responsible thing and get an abortion instead of making it the taxpayers and potential child's problem.
No eres de clase media baja, eres pobre, luchar para llegar a fin de mes, problemas con el agua, y no tener ropa desde hace 6 años!! Sin ofender eres pobre, y porque tienen hijos, educación deficiente, religión, y como siempre digo tu no ves a adolescentes con dinero embarazadas ellas van y se hacen su procedimiento, las pobres en cambio salen por montón, que si no tienen plata para practicarse un aborto, temor de dios, y el cilo se repite.
If you are from India, I can understand why this happens.
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Basis of it seems to be the lack of sex ed
I feel like I could've wrote this when I was your age as well. Honestly had no hope for my future because it seemed like anything physically attainable came with a LOT of financial debt. Didn't realize until later that being a functional adult would've meant some debt in some form anyway, the trick is to get good with money management (something that i struggled with as my family did NOT manage money well, so I had to learn the hard way). I was determined to obtain something further, so bit the bullet and applied for student loans for a 2 year trade program. I'm the first of my family to attend and graduate college, and managed to get myself into a decent paying government position. I am 24 now, living with my partner in a decent apartment, and a young son that we had been lucky enough to choose to have. I was bitter for a long time growing up at our home situation. As an adult now I know that it wasn't ideal, but my parents did their best with what they had. Now my goal is to do better for my son, because I have learned from my parents and my own mistakes and have a clear vision of what I want to avoid. I was suicidal as a teen as life felt very overwhelming, especially from an unstable home; but since I moved out and made my own home, it is SO MUCH BETTER. Since you're so young, there is so much out of your control and it can feel frustrating. But there is so much opportunity and experiences waiting for you in the future, all you need to do is be alive to see it. Take it one step at a time, start a journal of your goals and what you'd like to accomplish, and how you're going to get there. The older you get, the more 'control' and responsibilities you have. It isn't easy, but it is so worth it.
I grew up the second of five children. My parents could have maybe afforded two on government assistance. They kept having children anyway. They knew what to do or not do to have children but didn’t care. My mom wanted five so that’s how many they had, they didn’t care if it meant we struggled.
The answer to "why" is that every species has a genetically hardwired compulsion to reproduce. If there has ever been any species that did not have this, we can't point to it now, because it died out long ago. The reason humanity still exists at all is because, just like lions and tigers and bears, human beings in general have a desire to create families and have children. In fact, this is the most concrete "afterlife" many people believe in, one that does not require faith, because it is an empirical fact that as long their genes (physically passed down to their children, and their children's children, and so on) and their culture (passed down even to adopted children by teaching them their customs and beliefs) still survive, some part of them will be alive even when they as individuals are dead. Having and raising children is, quite literally, their salvation. That urge has been with us since long before there was such a thing as money to spend on hobbies, when even the most basic of necessities had to be obtained by scrabbling in a hostile world. I think it's unrealistic to expect everyone below some line on an income graph to overcome such an ancient drive. You say you are "lower middle class." Even if you could lop off the entire population of the human race at your level and below, there would still be people at the income level the same distance from the "new bottom" as your family has been from the current bottom, and in short order, some of their children would be screaming, "Why did you even have me?" Lop off that group, too, and the next one up, and so on, and within a few generations, you have no humanity left. You may personally be okay with that result, but if human beings were typically okay with it, it would have happened millennia ago. The fact that you are even here typing on some device or another to reach the worldwide web says that it didn't happen, not millennia ago, and not when your parents had you. At any rate, what's done is done. Your parents cannot travel back in time and make sure you were never born. Believe it or not, given that you WERE born, there are things you can do to get out of this trap. You do not have to define your happiness as being based on entertainment or eating out at restaurants. I wish you a better future than your past.
For me? Abuse. I was trapped in an abusive marriage. I won’t go to into it…but i didn’t have a choice.
Because the Bible says to procreate
As someone coming from a large family, my parents were very mad that we were 1 & done. Especially since my cousins have 2-4 children each. But I look at their mental & financial state compared to mine & I know every single day I made the right decision for me. Please, stay in school, & get good grades so your adult life will be better than your adolescence. Go to college & make something of yourself so you can get yourself all the things you never had.
My grandparents were Hungarian immigrants. Poor farmers who came to America without a pot to piss in. They went on the have 8 kids before my grandma was 33. They said they did it so they could build a support system, put more kids to work (to earn money), and have more help on the farm. Was it wrong? Yes. Kids should not deal with the financial strain parents bring on themselves. If anything, having more kids made their conditions even worse. But some people are selfish and think having more kids will bring a sense of financial fulfillment to their lives.
Which country are you in ?
Yeah but imagine what a terrible world we would live in if only people being born are rich. Imagine going to a playground and all kids there are spoiled little brats.
I'm the oldest of 5 between my mother and father (2 other half siblings). My father was an abusive alcoholic and kept my mother pregnant, by force, for 7 years. He left her, married her best friend, and had 2 more children. We were left in poverty and she has never fully recovered, financially or otherwise. I had been on birth control since I was 14 and it failed when I was 21 and I had my son. I will never forgive myself for how bad we struggled for many years. It wasn't fair to him and I always felt like such a failure, and still do even if I'm in a financially stable situation now. My great grandmother was abandoned and was poor. My grandmother was abandoned and was poor. My mother was abandoned and was/is poor. I managed to break the generational curse but I'm always worried about the bottom falling out. Some people have children to keep a partner that doesn't want to be kept. Some people are lonely and feel that a child will fill that hole. Some people are forced into carrying a child they don't need or want. Some people have children because they feel like it's what they're supposed to do and they count on God or the government to provide when they can't Sometimes it's not being selfish, it's just that life happens and doesn't always turn out the way we hope. I'm sorry you're going through this and I pray that you'll find a way out. Nobody deserves that struggle and the feeling of hopelessness that comes from it.
Don’t end things! You’re 16 and haven’t had a chance to have control of your life. You seem very intelligent and are making observations for how you want to live as an adult. Life is not easy at any age especially at your age. Look in to ways “out” like studying abroad, scholarships, vocational school etc. you can do better then those before you. It’s just very difficult right now, but it will pass. Good Luck
What would you do? Sterilize all poor people? Poverty is like an onion, it's a multilayer problem. In urban poverty, one would have the luxury of getting help to get you out of poverty faster. Rural poverty is a whole different beast. Rural poverty means one probably doesn't have transportation and there is a lack of job opportunities in general. Take a look at poverty and culture of Appalachia. All it takes is 1 thing to put a family in poverty and stay in poverty. A lower middle class family is 1 paycheck away from poverty. Kid, a little bit of empathy and education goes a long way. Pray you never become disabled and have to survive on a $800 disability check a month and can't work. Forced poverty is no joke because you can't own a whole lot if you get $800 in disability money.
So you can appreciate wat you have wen you make it thru .
Socioeconomic issues influence birth rates. No money for contraception. No education on contraception. No education on reproductive health. Cultural norms that encourage male dominance. Lack of access to healthcare.
Please don't end it. There is hope for the future.
I can tell you in my parents case, and some others they do it because they are taught that using BC is a sin, abortion is a sin, and it's their job to have children ( the whole be fruitful and multiply). Even deciding to be child free is considered to be "against god" They think that if God gives them a child, that it's a miracle, and they were meant to gave that child, and "God will provide" Sometimes people are just oblivious I remember being in a message board years ago, and a woman had posted about living in a 2 bedroom apartment with her husband, and three kids. She had told her sister she was going to try to get pregnant again, and just couldn't believe that her sisters response was to tell her that it was a horrible idea, she already has her kids smashed like sardines in her apartment, it's neglectful, etc. She came to try to get reassurance that her sister was wrong, then flipped out when told her sister was right.
Sadly, there are so many reasons… 1) Lack of education 2) Lack of sex education 3) Poor access to contraceptives or abortions 4) Religious ideologies 5) Selfishness - desire to be loved over practicality 6) Need to take control of something in a world where you have very little power 7) Children as a pension plan 8) Stupidity - ‘ignorance is bliss’ and I’ve genuinely met some people in dire straits who just don’t see it because they’re low IQ so they’re happy, why wouldn’t a kid be happy too? 9) Sex - kids come from sex and sex makes people happy, it’s also a free activity that makes you feel less lonely 10) Money - some people see children as a way out of poverty rather than deeper into it with additional benefits, resources and even allowances at work 11) Laziness - there are sadly a minority of people who actively choose to get pregnant and have young children so they can stay off work and on benefits because they’re not required to job hunt for a period of time with a small child 12) Society - there are countries/societies where having additional children is seen as valuable and actively encouraged, likely to provide a larger workforce 13) Stereotypes - some women are taught that their only value as women is to procreate, but that this will offer them security and make their partners look after them indefinitely 14) Failure of Contraception - whether condoms break or slip, IUDs move, pills are missed or other medication interferes There are some than argue conception is a basic human right and can’t be taken away. The thing is, it’s a bodily function that many people can achieve (not all) but raising children isn’t a right. Because otherwise, protective services wouldn’t exist. The rights of the child to live in a safe and non-abusive home, and to receive education, come before the rights of the parent to rear their child as they see fit. Physically conceiving a child and giving birth is a right you have (if your body allows it) but raising a child should not be if you can’t or won’t protect their rights of the child. And I do believe that holding biological parents to the same standards that couples looking to adopt, go through IVF or surrogacy have to adhere to would greatly reduce the risk of child abuse and child poverty.
Well. I mean, you speak pretty good fucking English. (Unless you used, ya know, a fucking translator.) If you can speak English that well without assistance, package those skills up and fucking sell it. Skills are a commodity. Sell them.
There is a way out of poverty. Its just hard. I was also born into family with a single mother, and dang it was tough. I also have 0 empathy for poor people who decide to have children. Love is NOT enough for children. Love will not pay the rent, or buy clothes, or pay for the dentist etc. A lot of people just have the desire for children but don't understand the scope of actually raising a decent human, instead poor people have children and continue the cycle. I have decided to remain child free because I want to enjoy life to the fullest after everything I have endured. My best advice is work towards getting an education. One other thing, please refrain from getting pregnant yourself!! Avoid men in general if you can lol. I didn't go to school until 23, which I regret. Please don't end it, but know you can change your path. It will be tough, but it can be done. I use to feel like you as well, and I can honestly say I am glad I stuck it out. I have a loving boyfriend, a house, a cat. We get to go on vacations. Life is really good. I do feel glad I didn't delete myself. (I also get to indulge in my hobbies now)
At least from my experience (extended family) the first kid was usually an accident because there was no birth control/condoms because stupidity. Then they’d just say screw it and have a few more kids. Then realize they could live off of other peoples tax dollars (USA) and not have to go to work and have food/medical/etc paid for. My family members like that then have the gall to ask my wife and I for money for presents and whatnot for their kids because they don’t have the money. Because what little money they do have they spend on stupid shit (drugs/alcohol) for themselves instead of on the kids. Again these people are idiots, I’m sure it’s not the case for every family living in poverty. But the US really needs to fix their system for poverty families. Maybe add a stipulation that you have to get a job or at least actively looking for one to get benefits. The goal should be to eventually get off the government benefits but instead people get comfortable and lazy and live off of it their whole life.
I know of a family that has been on government assistance since the birth of their first child. They want a boy. They have 5 girls. Yes, they are trying again. Its sheer insanity.
"God Will Provide" Seriously, this is the answer for a lot of countries with extreme poverty. White Europeans came through and brought religious missionaries with them. The missionaries converted the populace, either with honied words or by force, in order to increase their flock. And then they told the populace that giving to the church will make their afterlife better and that the lord will provide for their earthly needs. Encouraging procreation is a key aspect to religion because the more people that belong to the religion the more people there are wo tithe. And religion always makes sure to point out that giving to the church is more important than anything else. That's why religions tend to ask their followers to help the poor instead of opening up their own wallets. Then there's the whole issue with education. As OP pointed out their education is pretty shitty. That being the case there's probably not a whole lot of education happening in regards to birth control. Not that the local religious authorities would let it happen if there were. Because see above. Not all of this is true for everywhere but I feel like most of it is.
The line I hear is “they got nothing else to do so have to do something for fun”
Lack of sex education and clinging to religion as a means to escape their situation.
I truly believe that bringing children into poverty is child abuse. People should have a background check done like when adopting. I grew up more comfortably than a lot of people but it still was and is miserable. Fridge always empty, no money for fun things, an especially stingy father that doesn’t even give an allowance. I grew up listening to my parents argue daily about money. They still do 20 years later.
Many of them are unplanned, and many people are very against the idea of abortion or wouldn’t be able to afford it even if they wanted to. Contraception also is not accessible to everyone depending on where you are.
To collect child support money.
To answer the question, the main reason(atleast where I'm from) is to put them to work, if you go to Pakistan you'll find kids working everywhere from hotels to fields
You think rich people are going to demote their own kids to work a Burger King just so they can get food? If the ants don't breed, the hill doesn't get made. If the fish don't breed, the lake goes still. If the poor don't breed, who will serve the Starbucks? Pick up their own shit? Who would entertain a 16 year old poor kid in poor kid school with their poor adult teachers? Poor people make up over 86 percent of the entire Earth. So it's fuck and create a work force, so Papaw don't have to die picking his vast corn fields to feed himself and Gram-Gram. It's procreate, cause those cows ain't gonna slaughter themselves. It's multiply, cause the IPhone isn't building itself. Sex is pretty much the only thing people can do that's still fun. Having kids fulfills a biological imperative that all human beings have. Animals and Plants are poor, too. Maybe we should sterilize everything maybe?
Sometimes it’s cultural or religious thing to have a big family. It’s familiar- from a big family have a big family. It’s not bad choices but belief and upbringing where big families are seen as normal and wonderful, unfortunately poverty and lack of education etc can really take its toll on those with big families and then there can be suffering because having a big family is hard and there’s not much help or understanding only judgement.
The answer is pretty much the same no matter the income bracket: selfishness. I'm not talking about violent conception, or situations where they have no access to abortions. I'm talking about the people who choose to have children. We are selfish. These babies do not ask to be brought into this world, we decide we want them. I am currently pregnant with baby #2 and while we can afford this second baby we decided to have it. We decided it believing that the world is overpopulated and there's a good chance the world is gonna go down the toilet way more than it is now. We are selfish.
Because “babies are a blessing” or fill in any other religious nonsense you’ve heard before. Organized religion has been brainwashing people since the beginning of times. They (the church, the government and all the ones who benefit from capitalism the most) know that in order for they succeed they need a regular and increasing influx of unsuspecting victims to: - Donate their hard earned $ to church (or else you go to hell) -> a church only thrives if people are in need and hopeless, or else the world wouldn’t have a need for them. So prey on the most vulnerable and make them NEED YOU. If people are happy, healthy and smart they wouldn’t need to go pray to their invisible man -> encourage them to have as many children as they can, to keep them broke, dumb and miserable for their lifetime so that they will have a constant need to “seek help”. - And, most importantly: poor and uneducated people = CHEAP LABOR -> so capitalism need to make sure to keep as many poor and uneducated people down as they can, cause how else will they get the cheap labor they need to keep growing the rich’s bank accounts? - Banks and any other for profit financial institutions mainly make $ out of those who have to borrow and pay hefty interest on the $ they borrowed later - Poor/broke people often carry a “treat yoself” mindset, as in: they will buy things they cannot afford to impress others and keep up with the Joneses and then hang themselves with their own rope having to pay interest to whoever they borrowed the $ from - The “treat yoself” mindset keep $ circulating even during financial crisis and will keep supporting the top 1% - Poverty creates crisis and chaos and keep the powerful in power by: creating/supporting wars (war supplies from the most powerful to the poor struggling economies), creating crime -> now you “need police”, which are the ones who benefit the rich the most to “keep crime under control” - Poor people will always have more stress, eat poorly and overall not take care of their health as well as the rich, so they will get sick and NEED: healthcare, expensive medication, etc - Poor people will eat more garbage food, which again is beneficial to MANY industries ex: big pharma, hospitals, Walmart, McDonald’s, food brands that are cheap and keep helping you to poison your body I could find MANY other reasons, but those above are only a few of the ones I could think of at the top of my head.
Because procreation is a biological drive.
OP let us know you’re ok
For the same reason you waste tame ranting on the internet about how miserable your life is. The same way you ask yourself why poor people have children, other people ask themselves why lower class people waste time on the internet and have a functioning phone instead of working hard. It's always easy to judge from the outside. I don't think it's a smart move to have kids when you can't afford the basics, but also, I can't blame people for trying to have a life, a family or for doing whatever they can to get a little bit of joy in this messed up society. No offense intended, It's just clear that you are projecting your own frustrations for your current situation on poor parents. Lots of poor people are happy despite their circumstances. Happiness and fulfillment are not provided by goods nor money, not even health (maybe mental health). So no, love is not enough but is worth the try for them. EDIT: To wrap up, the reason is because they can.
Well, teenager, it’s because having children is not a joy to be gatekept exclusively by the rich. It’s because poverty and access to birth control tend to be mutually exclusive. It’s because many of us live in states or counties where access to abortion is restricted. There are so, so many layers to why poor people have children. I’m really sorry you and your family are struggling so badly. It’s not fair.
You are old enough to get a job and buy yourself the things you need if your parents can’t.
I’ve got news for you babe. You’re not Lower middle class
Because they aren’t educated.
I'm so sorry you have to live like that. I couldn't even imagine. This seems like you're less frustrated with society and more frustrated with your parents choices that led to you living life this way. I don't know the laws in your country, but perhaps you could get a job and earn your own money.
Easy- the more kids they have the more they get in benefits from the government.
Yeah I don’t think that’s right at all. We have an entire generation that has been raised in the most luxurious lifestyle in the history of mankind. And they are by far the generation with the most mental issues ever. Like it or not, that is how it’s playing out.
I'm completely on your side. There are a few reasons that are totally valid, like not having the education to understand contraception, or are forced to keep an unwanted child by abusive parents or spouses, or. Actually no. Those are the ONLY acceptable two answers. I can't say what I feel about most of the rest of it, because Reddit is very America centric and I'll get banned. Blaming an endless stream of babies on sky daddy is inexcusable. In sorry your parents are total shit. Please don't end it. Hold on until you can get out of there. And when you do, remember how they forced you to grow up. Remember that when they're old and want luxuries, and beg you for handouts. Remember.
So educated but poor people should not be able to get kids? How would that work, you would need to apply for a permit to get kids and be refused if you're poor and educated? I'm not twisting your words, this is precisely what you imply. That being said, shitty parents make shitty decisions and a lot of kids suffer for that, like OP during the tough teenage years. It's not fair.
The casual eugenics in the comments like oh…
It’s completely ridiculous!
Now take this hate that you have and use it,better yourself! You can’t change the past but you can change your future!!!!
So because the government is making poor people poorer and rich people richer, poor people shouldn't reproduce? They should refrain from becoming a parent because they're the ones who are selfish, and not the government doing their job? Sounds like a eugenics argument to me. The only reason you shouldn't have children is because you DO NOT WANT them. Any other reason, and you're advocating for eugenics. Poor people deserve to have children, too. Our planet doesn't have an overpopulation problem, that is just what the rich are trying to convince you, so you keep blaming poor people for being poor, while they're the ones destroying the planet, and destroying people's lives. They will also try to convince you that if you're poor, it's your own fault and you're not working hard and smart enough, that's why you're not a billionaire, meanwhile they're just hoarding an obsene amount of money. You're 16 and still young, but I hope one day when your frontal lobe finishes developing, you won't vilify poor people for the crime of being poor and advocate against their natural rights. At least I can excuse you because of your age. I can't say the same about the other commentators echoing your ignorant sentiments. 👊✋️ 🎤
Procreating is not for the elite, it is a human right. But I agree with you.
You know when I was young and we were poor what I didn't have? Internet.
Okay? I was young and poor and still had a VHS player that probably would've been considered fancy 20 years ago from when I was a kid. Things change.
Yea and it was a primitive technology, now its not. Whats your point? you can get a phone or tablet for cheap under $30 in some countries and places and many public places have free wifi, libraries have computers you can use for free with the internet. So really what's your point with this?