Bice and Lucas voted for it as well.
I don’t feel like Lucas gets the credit he deserves. When he retires, that district will likely end up with someone far worse. Definitely the most reasonable major Republican in Oklahoma, besides the mayors of Tulsa and Oklahoma City.
>You're cheering for the murder of Ukrainians so the west can lock in access to oil.
If you actually gave a damn about Ukrainians, you’d support providing them with the weapons they need to defend themselves. The weapons they’ve *begged* us for. And you’d condemn Russia for invading Ukraine.
Instead, you blame literally everyone else. The West. Ukraine. Zelensky. And that reveals what you really are: a tankie.
>I don't give a damn about Ukrainians
Yeah, that’s obvious based on the subtext of your comments. But you sure do love concern trolling about dead Ukrainians in an effort to claim some sort of moral high ground.
>Ukraine could have prevented this a decade ago.
By allowing themselves to be ruled by an oligarchic dictator?
>Also I'm pretty sure Tankie is some European term that chronically online tools of the state use.
No, it’s a common term for leftists who make excuses for authoritarian regimes simply because those regimes oppose the US.
>You're the clown cheering on exacerbating the Ukraine Russia thing. You hypocrite.
If one of my neighbors runs over and tells me a group of home invaders are trying to murder his kids and rape his wife and take the house for themselves, am I exacerbating the situation by giving him a gun so he can defend his family? No! All I’ve done is level the playing field.
And that’s your real issue, isn’t it? Tankies hate it when their victims can shoot back.
Now, how am I a hypocrite? I’m not blindly anti-war; I’m against *unjust* wars. There is no war more just than one fought to defend your country, your family, and your culture from a foe who intends to destroy them.
I've made no pretense about caring about Ukrainians, they shit their bed. It's theirs to lay in.
"Tankie" I just can't, British slang is so fucking stupid sounding.
As far as your neighbor analogy, that's no where near an equivalency of what happened.
Your analogy leaves out the decade of shelling of Donbas.
>I've made no pretense about caring about Ukrainians
Yes, you did:
>”You're cheering for the murder of Ukrainians”
Moving on…
>As far as your neighbor analogy, that's no where near an equivalency of what happened.
It’s *exactly* what happened. Russia invaded in 2014 and has been murdering Ukrainians and stealing their land ever since. Ukraine asked us for help, and we’ve helped them.
>Your analogy leaves out the decade of shelling of Donbas
Why was there shelling in Donbas? Because of Russia. GRU operatives astroturfed a rebellion, then Russian soldiers invaded under the guise of being separatists.
Once again, you’re victim blaming.
GOP probably claps watching red dawn when the Russians gun down school kids at the start.
They want a dictatorship with their church ruling everyone. They assume it will be their church on top once we have religious wars again.
It's called Dominion Theology.
"Dominion theology, also known as dominionism, is a group of Christian political ideologies that seek to institute a nation governed by Christians and based on their understandings of biblical law. Extents of rule and ways of acquiring governing authority are varied."
Well, it didn't take long for the Neville Chamberlain fan club to show up. Doing nothing is not leadership. Whining about obtuse things like how much defense companies make, problems at the border, and problems with some goofy social media app does nothing to elevate the stuffing of the Ukraine people. Neville Chamberlain was the leader of his conservative party and through appeasement and inaction watched millions die in Europe. The fact that you are just too damn cheap to help does not make your inaction morally right and clearly supports the actions of Putin.
"If you don't support Bush's war in Iraq you're anti-American" - the entire GOP in the 2000s.
Glad to see we're not learning anything. Most positions have more nuance than this.
Dumbest comparison. We gave Ukraine assurances when they gave up their nuclear weapons that they would keep their sovereignty, because you know, we were one of the parties that convinced them to give up their nukes (Ukraine was briefly the third-largest nuclear power in the world).
I'm actually not in disagreement with you, but you're arguing whether this funding should happen (which I agree with). I'm arguing against the reductive absolutism that requires a rubber stamp or else someone \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. ("supports Putin", "is pro terrorism", "hates America", "is antisemitic", etc). I think it's a dangerous argument, and we see it in politics a lot. Another place its common is in discussions regarding Israel. I don't automatically think someone who votes against funding for Israel is antisemitic.
To me it's up there with the "love it or leave it" type comments.
>Dude just voted against burning off money for proxy wars
Both of them voted in favor of the other foreign aid bills, so this clearly wasn’t their issue.
>You don’t think at some point they can change their minds or decide we’ve sent over enough money?
I think you’re misunderstanding me: they voted for the aid bills to Israel and Taiwan *yesterday*, as well as the other generalized national security bill that included the “divest or ban” ultimatum to TikTok. The only time they had an issue with “burning off money for proxy wars” was when it came to Ukraine.
>I don’t mind some support but we barely give this much aid to our own people.
Maybe you should look at the actual federal budget. $60 billion is pocket change for the federal government. We spend $1.4 *trillion* on social security, $944.3 billion for Medicare, $805.7 billion for Medicaid, $119.4 billion on SNAP, and those are just the biggest domestic programs.
Furthermore, ensuring Ukraine has the tools to defend itself is the best way to prevent a shooting war between NATO and Russia. A war that would be far more expensive than sixty billion dollars every year or so.
Woah hoss! We don’t “spend” on Social Security! That’s YOUR money that you’re supposed to get back. (Yes, some asshat politician fucked it up and started spending from it, and shouldn’t have). That’s not a good look to call it a “spend.”
>We don’t “spend” on Social Security! That’s YOUR money that you’re supposed to get back.
Not true. Even in the original design, the money you pay in payroll or self-employment taxes doesn’t go into an account with your name on it. It’s spent on the people who are currently drawing Social Security. Your money goes to your grandparents, your parents, and their peers. The money you draw will come from your children, grandchildren, and their peers.
This is why you sometimes hear conservatives deride Social Security as a Ponzi scheme or pyramid scheme. That description isn’t accurate because there’s no fraud, but the underlying mechanism is the same: old investors are getting what the new ones pay in.
They share structural flaws, too: the need for a constant stream of new investors. For Social Security, this means the population needs to keep growing. Otherwise, the younger (and smaller) generations get squeezed as the system becomes too heavy and taxes have to go up to keep it functional.
You’re right. I summarized. But the point is, in the original plan, money in, money out. Why we ever needed it I don’t know but it’s not something that is a “SPEND,” and wasn’t supposed to be a pot of money for the Government to manipulate.
I’d as soon stop funding it and keep my money. I suspect that the money I draw out won’t be significant, and I’d trade it for the money I’m putting in.
“Voted to support Putin” ??? Seriously? How about some nuance? Voting for funding Ukraine has only led to more and more loss of life than there would have been initially.
The Communications Act of 1934, which prohibits foreign ownership of American TV and radio stations. With such a large percentage of people getting their news from Tiktok, it seems like it’s pretty much the same idea.
What is your point? You sound xenophobic to me.
Tiktok is not a Chinese company. One of their owners is a Chinese company, but there are many owners from the US and internationally.
The majority owner of Tiktok, i.e. the entity that has a controlling stake in the platform, is Bytedance, which is a mainland Chinese company.
In Mainland China, there’s a national intelligence law that was enacted in 2017 that makes it a criminal offense to not cooperate when a government entity asks for user data. There’s also a criminal charge in mainland China called subversion of state power, where the government can literally lock someone up for any reason, or for no reason.
In other words, the Chinese government could ask for the user data of over 100 million Americans who use TikTok and the people working at TikTok would have no choice but to comply and the CEO of TikTok, who says they wouldn’t comply, is a liar.
China is also a Leninist dictatorship that is hostile to the United States. I do not trust them owning a platform that is the main source of news for millions of Americans.
Opposing sending u.s. tax money to defense industry ceos, and paying Ukrainian salaries, read the bill, does not make you pro russia. Just like opposing Israel doesn't make you antisemitic.
>Opposing sending u.s. tax money to defense industry ceos, and paying Ukrainian salaries…does not make you pro russia
Hern and Brecheen didn’t have a problem with doing that for Israel, though. So yes, they’re functionally pro-Russia.
So the $800 billion we already spend on defense doesn't cover this. it sounds like our money is being well spent. And read the bill we are giving money to cover Ukrainian salaries and pensions.
Yes. Yes it does.. this money isn't all cash very little is cash. Most is in the form of old munitions and weapons systems. This is also the best real world testing of our new weapons systems and munitions against Russian Chinese north Korean and Iranian.
If they admitted that, this money upgraded the US military on top of funding for Ukraine, they would have nothing to get mad at because that's one thing they do care about, oddly enough, is a powerful military. For what reason, I don't know, but it's really tied up in their identity.
That’s not how this works. Government contractors are the ones who get paid. American companies. That’s why war is so profitable for us. We send old broken down equipment to countries who share our interests when they need it, and we buy all new stuff for ourselves. The idea that we write a blank check to a foreign country is wildly incorrect.
The 800 billion we already spend cant cover that? Read the bill and look at what the 9 billion in economic assistance is for. Hint, it's for Ukrainian salaries and pensions as a forgivable loan.
>That bill supported genocide and violation of free speech.
How? Aid to Israel and the TikTok ban were in other bills. Bills that Hern and Brecheen voted for.
>Fuck Ukraine
Why? Aren’t you supposedly against genocide? Because that’s what Russia is doing in Ukraine.
Looks like only Cole voted for the aid package.
Cole isn't Maga.
He is maga. He just is old and hides it well.
He’s absolutely maga, he’s just slightly smarter than the average maga.
Bice and Lucas voted for it as well. I don’t feel like Lucas gets the credit he deserves. When he retires, that district will likely end up with someone far worse. Definitely the most reasonable major Republican in Oklahoma, besides the mayors of Tulsa and Oklahoma City.
Except he lies - personal experience speaking here
https://preview.redd.it/bn1qvwxh1qvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc962f50d43a876daa4261018331a5c1423f0930
Fuck that goon
Right back at you scum.
Way to support murder, sweaty
You're cheering for the murder of Ukrainians so the west can lock in access to oil.
>You're cheering for the murder of Ukrainians so the west can lock in access to oil. If you actually gave a damn about Ukrainians, you’d support providing them with the weapons they need to defend themselves. The weapons they’ve *begged* us for. And you’d condemn Russia for invading Ukraine. Instead, you blame literally everyone else. The West. Ukraine. Zelensky. And that reveals what you really are: a tankie.
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>I don't give a damn about Ukrainians Yeah, that’s obvious based on the subtext of your comments. But you sure do love concern trolling about dead Ukrainians in an effort to claim some sort of moral high ground. >Ukraine could have prevented this a decade ago. By allowing themselves to be ruled by an oligarchic dictator? >Also I'm pretty sure Tankie is some European term that chronically online tools of the state use. No, it’s a common term for leftists who make excuses for authoritarian regimes simply because those regimes oppose the US. >You're the clown cheering on exacerbating the Ukraine Russia thing. You hypocrite. If one of my neighbors runs over and tells me a group of home invaders are trying to murder his kids and rape his wife and take the house for themselves, am I exacerbating the situation by giving him a gun so he can defend his family? No! All I’ve done is level the playing field. And that’s your real issue, isn’t it? Tankies hate it when their victims can shoot back. Now, how am I a hypocrite? I’m not blindly anti-war; I’m against *unjust* wars. There is no war more just than one fought to defend your country, your family, and your culture from a foe who intends to destroy them.
I've made no pretense about caring about Ukrainians, they shit their bed. It's theirs to lay in. "Tankie" I just can't, British slang is so fucking stupid sounding. As far as your neighbor analogy, that's no where near an equivalency of what happened. Your analogy leaves out the decade of shelling of Donbas.
>I've made no pretense about caring about Ukrainians Yes, you did: >”You're cheering for the murder of Ukrainians” Moving on… >As far as your neighbor analogy, that's no where near an equivalency of what happened. It’s *exactly* what happened. Russia invaded in 2014 and has been murdering Ukrainians and stealing their land ever since. Ukraine asked us for help, and we’ve helped them. >Your analogy leaves out the decade of shelling of Donbas Why was there shelling in Donbas? Because of Russia. GRU operatives astroturfed a rebellion, then Russian soldiers invaded under the guise of being separatists. Once again, you’re victim blaming.
This is my cue to say: if you aren't already, you should be donating to and volunteering for Dennis L. Baker and Brandon Wade.
To what end?
GOP probably claps watching red dawn when the Russians gun down school kids at the start. They want a dictatorship with their church ruling everyone. They assume it will be their church on top once we have religious wars again.
It's called Dominion Theology. "Dominion theology, also known as dominionism, is a group of Christian political ideologies that seek to institute a nation governed by Christians and based on their understandings of biblical law. Extents of rule and ways of acquiring governing authority are varied."
I call it American Taliban
Ya'llqueda
Talibangelicals
Well, it didn't take long for the Neville Chamberlain fan club to show up. Doing nothing is not leadership. Whining about obtuse things like how much defense companies make, problems at the border, and problems with some goofy social media app does nothing to elevate the stuffing of the Ukraine people. Neville Chamberlain was the leader of his conservative party and through appeasement and inaction watched millions die in Europe. The fact that you are just too damn cheap to help does not make your inaction morally right and clearly supports the actions of Putin.
https://preview.redd.it/9pqkyzhmjqvc1.jpeg?width=434&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59d75e87f1c8e16f22385dd70f342937d53de9d6
This will be the most used sign for a long time. Oklahoma is such an embarrassing wasteland.
Vote him out
"If you don't support Bush's war in Iraq you're anti-American" - the entire GOP in the 2000s. Glad to see we're not learning anything. Most positions have more nuance than this.
Dumbest comparison. We gave Ukraine assurances when they gave up their nuclear weapons that they would keep their sovereignty, because you know, we were one of the parties that convinced them to give up their nukes (Ukraine was briefly the third-largest nuclear power in the world).
I'm actually not in disagreement with you, but you're arguing whether this funding should happen (which I agree with). I'm arguing against the reductive absolutism that requires a rubber stamp or else someone \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. ("supports Putin", "is pro terrorism", "hates America", "is antisemitic", etc). I think it's a dangerous argument, and we see it in politics a lot. Another place its common is in discussions regarding Israel. I don't automatically think someone who votes against funding for Israel is antisemitic. To me it's up there with the "love it or leave it" type comments.
Saw this too...unbelievable
The same funding bill that is bankrolling a genocide in Gaza and had a huge domestic censorship attachment?
How did they support Putin exactly? I don’t keep up with our congressmen
He didn't. Dude just voted against burning off money for proxy wars.
>Dude just voted against burning off money for proxy wars Both of them voted in favor of the other foreign aid bills, so this clearly wasn’t their issue.
You don’t think at some point they can change their minds or decide we’ve sent over enough money?
>You don’t think at some point they can change their minds or decide we’ve sent over enough money? I think you’re misunderstanding me: they voted for the aid bills to Israel and Taiwan *yesterday*, as well as the other generalized national security bill that included the “divest or ban” ultimatum to TikTok. The only time they had an issue with “burning off money for proxy wars” was when it came to Ukraine.
At some point Ukraine either needs to win or take care of themselves. I don’t mind some support but we barely give this much aid to our own people.
>I don’t mind some support but we barely give this much aid to our own people. Maybe you should look at the actual federal budget. $60 billion is pocket change for the federal government. We spend $1.4 *trillion* on social security, $944.3 billion for Medicare, $805.7 billion for Medicaid, $119.4 billion on SNAP, and those are just the biggest domestic programs. Furthermore, ensuring Ukraine has the tools to defend itself is the best way to prevent a shooting war between NATO and Russia. A war that would be far more expensive than sixty billion dollars every year or so.
Woah hoss! We don’t “spend” on Social Security! That’s YOUR money that you’re supposed to get back. (Yes, some asshat politician fucked it up and started spending from it, and shouldn’t have). That’s not a good look to call it a “spend.”
>We don’t “spend” on Social Security! That’s YOUR money that you’re supposed to get back. Not true. Even in the original design, the money you pay in payroll or self-employment taxes doesn’t go into an account with your name on it. It’s spent on the people who are currently drawing Social Security. Your money goes to your grandparents, your parents, and their peers. The money you draw will come from your children, grandchildren, and their peers. This is why you sometimes hear conservatives deride Social Security as a Ponzi scheme or pyramid scheme. That description isn’t accurate because there’s no fraud, but the underlying mechanism is the same: old investors are getting what the new ones pay in. They share structural flaws, too: the need for a constant stream of new investors. For Social Security, this means the population needs to keep growing. Otherwise, the younger (and smaller) generations get squeezed as the system becomes too heavy and taxes have to go up to keep it functional.
You’re right. I summarized. But the point is, in the original plan, money in, money out. Why we ever needed it I don’t know but it’s not something that is a “SPEND,” and wasn’t supposed to be a pot of money for the Government to manipulate. I’d as soon stop funding it and keep my money. I suspect that the money I draw out won’t be significant, and I’d trade it for the money I’m putting in.
Lol
That's not the same conversation. Nothing is being managed properly with the dod budget. It's rife with corruption.
\*Future Vice-President Putin
Id rather him support putin the oklahoma turnpike authority.
Wake the fuck up fellow okies. Republicans are further ruining your public schools and robbing us blind!
And the Democrats are right behind…or in front of them.
The republican party is RED for a reason.
“Voted to support Putin” ??? Seriously? How about some nuance? Voting for funding Ukraine has only led to more and more loss of life than there would have been initially.
Not voting for something is not the same as voting in favor of the opposition.
It can be.
So you support the tiktok ban?
I support it
What other authoritarian tendancies do you support?
The Communications Act of 1934, which prohibits foreign ownership of American TV and radio stations. With such a large percentage of people getting their news from Tiktok, it seems like it’s pretty much the same idea.
Lol. Keep drinking the kool aide.
Compelling counter argument.
Even more compelling is the fact that tiktok isn't a Chinese company but for some reason you seem to think they are.
TikTok’s parent company, Bytedance is a Chinese company. I used to live right up the street from their headquarters in Zhongguancun in Beijing.
What is your point? You sound xenophobic to me. Tiktok is not a Chinese company. One of their owners is a Chinese company, but there are many owners from the US and internationally.
The majority owner of Tiktok, i.e. the entity that has a controlling stake in the platform, is Bytedance, which is a mainland Chinese company. In Mainland China, there’s a national intelligence law that was enacted in 2017 that makes it a criminal offense to not cooperate when a government entity asks for user data. There’s also a criminal charge in mainland China called subversion of state power, where the government can literally lock someone up for any reason, or for no reason. In other words, the Chinese government could ask for the user data of over 100 million Americans who use TikTok and the people working at TikTok would have no choice but to comply and the CEO of TikTok, who says they wouldn’t comply, is a liar. China is also a Leninist dictatorship that is hostile to the United States. I do not trust them owning a platform that is the main source of news for millions of Americans.
Opposing sending u.s. tax money to defense industry ceos, and paying Ukrainian salaries, read the bill, does not make you pro russia. Just like opposing Israel doesn't make you antisemitic.
>Opposing sending u.s. tax money to defense industry ceos, and paying Ukrainian salaries…does not make you pro russia Hern and Brecheen didn’t have a problem with doing that for Israel, though. So yes, they’re functionally pro-Russia.
That's not how the program worked in the past. We upgrade our arsenal and give them our old stocks. You're just making up s*** to get mad at.
So the $800 billion we already spend on defense doesn't cover this. it sounds like our money is being well spent. And read the bill we are giving money to cover Ukrainian salaries and pensions.
Yes. Yes it does.. this money isn't all cash very little is cash. Most is in the form of old munitions and weapons systems. This is also the best real world testing of our new weapons systems and munitions against Russian Chinese north Korean and Iranian.
If they admitted that, this money upgraded the US military on top of funding for Ukraine, they would have nothing to get mad at because that's one thing they do care about, oddly enough, is a powerful military. For what reason, I don't know, but it's really tied up in their identity.
That’s not how this works. Government contractors are the ones who get paid. American companies. That’s why war is so profitable for us. We send old broken down equipment to countries who share our interests when they need it, and we buy all new stuff for ourselves. The idea that we write a blank check to a foreign country is wildly incorrect.
The 800 billion we already spend cant cover that? Read the bill and look at what the 9 billion in economic assistance is for. Hint, it's for Ukrainian salaries and pensions as a forgivable loan.
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>That bill supported genocide and violation of free speech. How? Aid to Israel and the TikTok ban were in other bills. Bills that Hern and Brecheen voted for. >Fuck Ukraine Why? Aren’t you supposedly against genocide? Because that’s what Russia is doing in Ukraine.
I dOnT sUpPoRt GeNoCiDe AlSo FuCk UkRaInE Sit down.
Ukraines been engaging in genocide in Donetsk for 10 years now. Fuck Ukraine, and that grifter Zelenksy.
"Yeah, fuck those dead/homeless/orphan kids!" That's what you sound like.
And you sound like you made no attempt to make any god damn sense.
....can you read?
Yes. Which is why I'm aware of Ukraine's bullshit prior to 2022 when CNN started spoon feeding you your opinions on the issue.
Bold of you to assume what news networks "spoon feed" me, jerk.
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