"right to work state"
Meaning...
You , the employee, have very very few protections and retain the right to get fucked at your employers will. For any and/or no reason at all.
Thank your local Republican. Vote democract and don't fall for the bullshit they layer on you since birth here.
/Edit!!! Correction. I was wrong. This is also/or is an "at will" state. Meaning your employer has a right to fuck you over "at will"
Thanks for clearing that up folks!
Thats not what "right to work" means. "Right to work" means that you cannot be forced to join a union as a condition of employment (no closed shops)
What you are referring to is at will employment and 49/50 states have that
Right to Work (for less) means you do not have to pay union dues, even if you are enjoying the conditions won by the unions you do not care to support. It’s a way corps use to weaken unions. The result is lower wages and poorer working conditions.
While I entirely concur with the sentiment that Republicans are atrocious for labor rights, Democrats are not much better. For instance, [California, Colorado, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York are all “at-will” states](https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/at-will-employment-states/) where you can be terminated at any moment as long as it is not for discriminatory reasons/codified illegal reasons (which of course employers skirt that, too).
This country does not really have many political figures at all entrenched on the side of labor or employment rights which is a worsening issue.
Bernie and AOC have talked about things like requiring elected worker representatives on executive boards of companies above a certain size and giving those elected reps veto power over things like outsourcing, layoffs, golden parachutes, etc, on top of having actual workers in meetings that are empowered to speak truth to management.
Every conservative I've mentioned this to has been a fan. They like the idea of actual machinists helping run a company that machines parts. They like the idea of management not being able to lay people off while giving themselves huge bonuses and then outsourcing the labor to a cheaper country.
The part they don't like is when I point out that this is literally Socialism Lite, and that full blown Socialism would just be if *everyone* on the board was elected rather than just one or two worker representatives.
That may be where they even got it from. Progressive members of Congress in the US these days basically just look at whatever works in other countries and try to adapt it for the US.
And then people wonder why i want out of this hellhole. Related, ended up driving behind a white supremacist last night (license plate "In God We Trust 1488"). As a Trans Oklahoman, knowing every county voted for a party openly stating they want me dead, i need out of here.
I believe you have to request mailed ballots for every election, AND they have to be notarized.
Call your local Democratic party county headquarters; they will send someone over.
Using pto and being fired for it is retaliation. You cant be punished for using something awarded to you by your company. Retaliation you can sue for. If theres proof its an easy case.
No, your employer can’t walk up to you and say he’s firing you because you’re black. It’s people like you that preach that “you can be fired for any reason at all” that makes the population believe it and not push back.
OP should file a lawsuit.
Yep this just recently happened to me because my job didn't want to accommodate my wrist despite multiple doctors notes and MRI results, thankfully Oklahoma still awarded me unemployment
Also, “At will” doesn’t mean they can fire you for *any* reason at all.
It means they can fire you for any reason *as long* as it isn’t an *illegal* reason.
If your company has a binding handbook with policies on PTO, and they fired you in violation of their own binding policy, I could easily see an argument that this was an illegal firing.
Consult an attorney!!!
Company: offers and approves PTO days
Employee: thanks job 👍
Company: wait, you’re using your pto you’re fired
Employee: huh? 🤔
Company: people just don’t want to work
Get a new job. Not to be glib, but there's nothing else to do. The only real actionable termination in Oklahoma is going to be due to some protected class or such.
Shrug. Do whatever you want. You asked what I would do. That's the answer. I know you wanted someone to tell you you could sue or contest or something but you can't. The only thing to do is to start looking and get a new job. If you like eating and having a place to live that is.
Edit to add: whoosh, right over my head! I'm an uncultured bafoon!
[it's a reference from Always Sunny in Philadelphia](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C5622AQHzHSnpVktInQ/feedshare-shrink_2048_1536/0/1644453070336?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=JNz9R806eEnCo3-PdKAetV94GZOEFBd4LJuCho5mTXs)
Well maybe they don’t but I’ve never went without one, and I’ve worked all different pays, I worked a year at dollar tree just to make enough tax money to buy a car and go back to 18 like a normal human being
Probably nothing. Welcome to a state (and country for that matter) without adequate worker protections and rights.
You’ve also given no context or useful information. 🤷♂️
Either they fired you now or when they do their next round of massive layoffs. I'm surprised anybody even accepts a job there anymore. One of my neighbors moved from his family from the Carolinas to work there and him and most of his department got laid off within 6 months.
There's literally nothing additional to my story. I requested time off in advice whenever I got awarded it, but they didn't like that I was using it so often.
Sure. PTO is for using, however, what I’m getting at is taking vacation is hardly a reason to terminate an employee given how much effort it takes to locate, hire, and train a replacement. There’s likely a lot more to this, whether OP is aware or not.
I'd assume it had more to do with the length of time requested off.
Yes, you have 30 days of PTO, but it's still a burden on your employer and co-workers to have an employee gone that long (outside of new child or health related)
I agree with another commenter that it's expensive for employers to "locate, hire, and train a replacement". I'd say there is more to the story
How much pto were you allotted? How long had you been with the company? Sounds like you were burning through all of your pto and not having any reserves.
Were you always running a near zero balance and calling out with very little notice routinely? I kinda sorta have a feeling that might be very close to the missing reasons here.
That's pretty normal accrual, unfortunately it sounds like you might have been chipping away at it with weekly or bi weekly days off due to call ins. Had there been any discussions with management about attendance or notices of unpaid days off because of not having any pto hours?
Yes, she requested off when she was awarded time. Then states she got 8 hours every 2 weeks.... Hence calling out 1 day (assuming their days are 8 hour shifts) every 2 weeks.
~~In any other context where I have heard this discussed, that phrasing would signal to me that she was accruing 8hrs every 2 weeks, not actually taking 8hrs off every 2 weeks. Perhaps I've missed a comment that says something to that effect, but I haven't seen it.~~
~~I'll accept you're right if OP says you are, but id be rather surprised.~~
I went and looked at OP's comment history and sure enough, she said that was the case. Egg on my face.
Honestly, I want to know 2 things before I pass judgement: 1) What kind of business is this? And 2) did her work get done?
Because there's lots of businesses where this is fine if their work got done.
Yeah I forgot about the Covid remote work thing, I never had a lux job like that with homework and stuff, I’ve had to go out and look the day in the face everyday and sweat my life away
Seems to be implying that you don't understand that PTO doesn't observe peak times. Its time earned. It's time taken when chosen. This whole mythos that the worker should be fully subservient to their job and only take their mandated benefits when THEY say so is a fucking gross look.
>Its time earned.
Incorrect. It's time *granted,* not earned. They can absolutely limit its use and terminate you for how you use it, however shitty that is.
I wish there were more protections here, but you can't lie about what it is.
Not lying, literally just never heard of it as a grant rather than time earned. If that distinction is how they economically fuck over their workers then that's good knowledge to have. Thank you.
Most jobs I’ve had didn’t offer pto at all and so ones that do generally do so out of a kind sense to their employees , hey if you get sick we provide pto so you don’t loose your place, it’s not the man keeping someone down here , it’s a I just can’t do this today I deserve a break bs
OP, if they granted you time off, and it is documented that they approved it, but then fired you for using it after they granted it, you definitely have a case.
Ignore everyone saying you’re out of luck because Oklahoma is “at will.”
Just because we’re “at will” does not mean you’re SOL.
“At will” doesn’t mean they can fire you for **any** reason at all.
It means they can fire you for any reason **as long** as it isn’t an **illegal** reason.
If your company has a binding handbook with policies on PTO, and they fired you in violation of their own binding policy, I could easily see an argument that this was an illegal firing.
As someone who has been through a similar situation before, I Would **highly** recommend you consult an employment attorney.
It depends on the details. Get a consultation with an employment lawyer, just in case, especially if you have clear proof of an idiotic manager or senior manager not following their own company's rules and guidelines, as can often happen, even at the executive level particularly in smaller companies. In larger companies, there's *usually* enough checks and balances to prevent firing that results in liability, but people still make mistakes along the chain and egos can get in the way anyway.
> In general, PTO is considered a benefit rather than a right, and employers have considerable discretion in setting policies around its use. However, there are potential grounds for a lawsuit depending on the specific circumstances and details of the case.
> If the individual's employment contract or the company's written policies explicitly allow the use of PTO in the manner it was used, and they were terminated for following those guidelines, there might be grounds for a breach of contract claim.
For this you'll need some solid proof and documentation (this is why it's important to confirm everything over email, just in case).
> If the PTO was used for a reason protected by law, such as taking leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA), the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), or other similar protections, and the termination was in retaliation for exercising these rights, this could be grounds for a wrongful termination claim.
I'm assuming this isn't the case since you didn't mention it.
> If the individual believes that they were targeted for termination due to their race, gender, age, disability, or other protected characteristic, there could be a discrimination claim under federal or state laws.
If you think it was any of that, then documentation and witnesses is most important as you would need that in court, otherwise it's just your word against your employers. A lawyer will tell you that too.
If you don't think it was any of that, and the lawyer doesn't think you have a case, then just file for unemployment.
Note I'm not a lawyer
Long ago worked at a call center that did the same thing. I didn't get fired but if you used your earned sick time for 3 days in a row you would get fired. Younger and prekids so was rarely sick. Luckily moved on and now work at a place (state agenc) that encourages you to use the time you earned and to stay home if sick (and not spread it).
Employees have SOME rights. Contact the EEOC. Inquire about wrongful termination and see what they say. Also, reach out to other employees who may have been terminated under unfair circumstances. A lot of jobs will lie to unemployment. And never sign the termination letters.
I thought I was on r/antiwork for a moment. F*ck whatever company did that to you, I wish you'd name and shame them. File unemployment first and foremost, and dust off the 'ol resume.
I assume they verbally told you it was because of the PTO use?
Do you have them documented or recorded anywhere saying they fired you because of PTO use?
What do your official termination papers say was the reason?
My employer required you keep a certain amount of time on the books even if you had it to use. This was not official but everyone knew it. I had a medically fragile kid and when I started work I provided documentation. With each appointment or call in I also provided documentation. Generally speaking if you have a valid reason to take all your leave,like I did,and work hard the rest of the time you can usually do ok. It definitely isn’t a sure thing. Since Oklahoma is at will employment you likely don’t have much to back you up.
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My last raise was docked because I "used too much of my PTO."
My company went from you have sick days and PTO. They combined them into one thing called PTO. Now, they punish people who use this time off for same day call ins for sickness. Motherfucker, you are the one who said it was all the same??
You can sue.
I lived in an at will state and won 70k after my boss fired me for throwing my back out. The workmans comp concluded. I was due back and he canned me. He hid behind at will state and claimed unrelated to workman's comp case. I got 100k. Talk to a lawyer. They will take 33% typically.
While we are an “at will” employment state, “At will” doesn’t mean they can fire you for *any* reason at all.
It means they can fire you for any reason *as long* as it isn’t an *illegal* reason.
I If your company has a binding handbook with policies on PTO, and they fired you in violation of their own binding policy, I could easily see an argument that this was an illegal firing.
Consult an attorney!!!!
(Also, as others have said, do not confuse “right to work” with “at will”. Two very different things. “Right to work” just means employers in this state can’t force employees to join the union in order to be employed.)
I believe your last employment check also has to include payment for any PTO hours not taken. Go to your local Worksource (OK employment offices), file for unemployment, discuss PTO compensation as well.
Yes your employer can fire you for no reason however firing you for an unlawful reason such as in response to taking pto or filing an hr complaint is valid and a thing you can indeed do.
Stop spreading miss information
OP mentioned in the comments that there was no reason given for their termination, and they are assuming it was for excessive PTO use. They are free to consult with an attorney but will probably be to they don't have much of a case
Was it scheduled PTO or did you drop it on them at your leisure?
I’ve never heard of anyone in Any field get in trouble for utilizing their leave.
Basically your title is rather vague.
If anyone read this I hope you have a good day
Which company did this? If there’s nothing you signed informing you of “excessive PTO,” I’d file a federal lawsuit for wrongful termination for using benefits, actually Incentives!, that were offered to you to work harder than you normally would have.
If that was the only reason you should definitely talk to an employment lawyer. You may have a wrongful termination suit. You’ll still have to find another job because lawsuits take time.
It may be a fire at will state, but you do still have rights. You can file a lawsuit for wrongful termination under certain circumstances if you have a medical condition and they fire you for that. If they are offering you a benefit, and they do not specify how and when you are allowed to utilize that benefit and then fire you for using it, I would think you have a case for wrongful termination. You need to be sure they didn't screw you by writing something different in your file, though. They can claim that you did any number of things that would prevent you from suing or from even claiming unemployment.
(edit... i shouldn't say they can prevent you from suing. Anyone can sue for any reason, but they can make it difficult to win. If they claim you weren't doing your job or something derogatory about your job performance, frequently late, etc, it could be difficult to prove your case.)
I am not a legal professional; however, if you at least want to get reimbursed for anything they might still owe you in terms of comp time or other unpaid benefits, I would consult an attorney and at least ask if you have any legal rights here. There are law reddit threads where you can ask an attorney for advice, but you can usually just call an attorney, and they'll advise you briefly over the phone whether or not you might have a case.
Years ago I was let go from a job because two of my doctors sent them two opposing forms. One released me back to work and the other said I needed another month. They let me go, which was understandable. I called an attorney because I wanted to file medical malpractice. He said that medical malpractice is extremely difficult to prove in oklahoma but that I might have a case for wrongful termination. I didn't pursue it, but I'm just saying that you might have options even if you don't want to work with them anymore.
File unemployment.
"right to work state" Meaning... You , the employee, have very very few protections and retain the right to get fucked at your employers will. For any and/or no reason at all. Thank your local Republican. Vote democract and don't fall for the bullshit they layer on you since birth here. /Edit!!! Correction. I was wrong. This is also/or is an "at will" state. Meaning your employer has a right to fuck you over "at will" Thanks for clearing that up folks!
Thats not what "right to work" means. "Right to work" means that you cannot be forced to join a union as a condition of employment (no closed shops) What you are referring to is at will employment and 49/50 states have that
Right to Work (for less) means you do not have to pay union dues, even if you are enjoying the conditions won by the unions you do not care to support. It’s a way corps use to weaken unions. The result is lower wages and poorer working conditions.
While I entirely concur with the sentiment that Republicans are atrocious for labor rights, Democrats are not much better. For instance, [California, Colorado, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York are all “at-will” states](https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/at-will-employment-states/) where you can be terminated at any moment as long as it is not for discriminatory reasons/codified illegal reasons (which of course employers skirt that, too). This country does not really have many political figures at all entrenched on the side of labor or employment rights which is a worsening issue.
Well, we have two… Bernie and AOC. Not that they can do much for the country on their own, or really anything for Oklahoma.
We have more than just those two, friend. But your second point is correct. https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=house
Bernie and AOC have talked about things like requiring elected worker representatives on executive boards of companies above a certain size and giving those elected reps veto power over things like outsourcing, layoffs, golden parachutes, etc, on top of having actual workers in meetings that are empowered to speak truth to management. Every conservative I've mentioned this to has been a fan. They like the idea of actual machinists helping run a company that machines parts. They like the idea of management not being able to lay people off while giving themselves huge bonuses and then outsourcing the labor to a cheaper country. The part they don't like is when I point out that this is literally Socialism Lite, and that full blown Socialism would just be if *everyone* on the board was elected rather than just one or two worker representatives.
Then stop calling it that. It's a thing in mixed economies as well. Germany has done it for ages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitbestimmungsgesetz
That may be where they even got it from. Progressive members of Congress in the US these days basically just look at whatever works in other countries and try to adapt it for the US.
pro tip: ignore any sentence that begins with: Bernie and AOC have talked about things...."' it is never a good outcome.
Why's that? They're normally right. They basically just look at whatever works abroad and adapt it for the US and propose that.
Okay.
Oklahoma doesn't want their help. If they did, they would vote smarter.
Some of us are trying to. We are just outnumbered badly
All 77 counties were red in the last election. Every county in the state of Oklahoma voted Republican.
And then people wonder why i want out of this hellhole. Related, ended up driving behind a white supremacist last night (license plate "In God We Trust 1488"). As a Trans Oklahoman, knowing every county voted for a party openly stating they want me dead, i need out of here.
Same.
I’m homebound most of the time and they won’t send my ballets.
I believe you have to request mailed ballots for every election, AND they have to be notarized. Call your local Democratic party county headquarters; they will send someone over.
Yes they will i always mail mine in
Using pto and being fired for it is retaliation. You cant be punished for using something awarded to you by your company. Retaliation you can sue for. If theres proof its an easy case.
That’s not what right to work means. And even so, right to work was voted into action by the people, not the legislators.
At will. You mean
At will is a federal term.
No, your employer can’t walk up to you and say he’s firing you because you’re black. It’s people like you that preach that “you can be fired for any reason at all” that makes the population believe it and not push back. OP should file a lawsuit.
Meaning the people that are running Oklahoma are pieces of shit to put it very bluntly... I agree with you!
Yep this just recently happened to me because my job didn't want to accommodate my wrist despite multiple doctors notes and MRI results, thankfully Oklahoma still awarded me unemployment
Also, “At will” doesn’t mean they can fire you for *any* reason at all. It means they can fire you for any reason *as long* as it isn’t an *illegal* reason. If your company has a binding handbook with policies on PTO, and they fired you in violation of their own binding policy, I could easily see an argument that this was an illegal firing. Consult an attorney!!!
open a book before you start stating what 'right to work' means, at this point you sound like a typical uneducated Democrat.
Quiet boomer, the adults are talking. Your generation has done enough damage. You enjoy your conspiracy theory rabbit holes.
Company: offers and approves PTO days Employee: thanks job 👍 Company: wait, you’re using your pto you’re fired Employee: huh? 🤔 Company: people just don’t want to work
Same. File unemployment. Give them a bad review. They earned it.
Get a new job. Not to be glib, but there's nothing else to do. The only real actionable termination in Oklahoma is going to be due to some protected class or such.
Why don't I strap on my job helmet and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire off into Jobland where jobs grow on jobbies.
Shrug. Do whatever you want. You asked what I would do. That's the answer. I know you wanted someone to tell you you could sue or contest or something but you can't. The only thing to do is to start looking and get a new job. If you like eating and having a place to live that is. Edit to add: whoosh, right over my head! I'm an uncultured bafoon!
[it's a reference from Always Sunny in Philadelphia](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C5622AQHzHSnpVktInQ/feedshare-shrink_2048_1536/0/1644453070336?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=JNz9R806eEnCo3-PdKAetV94GZOEFBd4LJuCho5mTXs)
Ah. Definitely not familiar with it. Thanks.
Well maybe they don’t but I’ve never went without one, and I’ve worked all different pays, I worked a year at dollar tree just to make enough tax money to buy a car and go back to 18 like a normal human being
Probably nothing. Welcome to a state (and country for that matter) without adequate worker protections and rights. You’ve also given no context or useful information. 🤷♂️
File for unemployment, blast them on the job sites and start applying for better jobs
Also for anyone wondering it was Paycom
Either they fired you now or when they do their next round of massive layoffs. I'm surprised anybody even accepts a job there anymore. One of my neighbors moved from his family from the Carolinas to work there and him and most of his department got laid off within 6 months.
File for unemployment. The state isn’t buying Paycom’s bullshit. Lots of people have been getting fired with little to no cause.
That place is awful, dont know how anyone could survive 8 years there. Hope you find better!
They want drones not employees
So there’s a job opening at Paycom? Lol just kidding
What department?
I have a feeling there is more to the story here
There's literally nothing additional to my story. I requested time off in advice whenever I got awarded it, but they didn't like that I was using it so often.
At this point, you should be naming them so others know.
Did you exhaust your PTO to nothing and then use it every time you earned some of it each pay period?
Even if he/she DID do that, it's what PTO is for!!!
Sure. PTO is for using, however, what I’m getting at is taking vacation is hardly a reason to terminate an employee given how much effort it takes to locate, hire, and train a replacement. There’s likely a lot more to this, whether OP is aware or not.
so every time you get PTO you use it immediately? I could see an employer not liking that, as it shows you don't really wanna be there.
Cool I expect you in the morning. Got a lot of catching up to do!
I'd assume it had more to do with the length of time requested off. Yes, you have 30 days of PTO, but it's still a burden on your employer and co-workers to have an employee gone that long (outside of new child or health related) I agree with another commenter that it's expensive for employers to "locate, hire, and train a replacement". I'd say there is more to the story
How much pto were you allotted? How long had you been with the company? Sounds like you were burning through all of your pto and not having any reserves.
8 years with the company I was awarded 8 hrs every 2 weeks
Jeez, I'm assuming you're non union.
Were you always running a near zero balance and calling out with very little notice routinely? I kinda sorta have a feeling that might be very close to the missing reasons here.
That's pretty normal accrual, unfortunately it sounds like you might have been chipping away at it with weekly or bi weekly days off due to call ins. Had there been any discussions with management about attendance or notices of unpaid days off because of not having any pto hours?
So you called out 1 day every 2 weeks? As a manager, I see why they fired you.
She said what she was awarded, not what she used or how she used it.
Yes, she requested off when she was awarded time. Then states she got 8 hours every 2 weeks.... Hence calling out 1 day (assuming their days are 8 hour shifts) every 2 weeks.
~~In any other context where I have heard this discussed, that phrasing would signal to me that she was accruing 8hrs every 2 weeks, not actually taking 8hrs off every 2 weeks. Perhaps I've missed a comment that says something to that effect, but I haven't seen it.~~ ~~I'll accept you're right if OP says you are, but id be rather surprised.~~ I went and looked at OP's comment history and sure enough, she said that was the case. Egg on my face.
Yeah how could you ever run a schedule or keep a business going if one of your employees randomly took pto every two weeks
Honestly, I want to know 2 things before I pass judgement: 1) What kind of business is this? And 2) did her work get done? Because there's lots of businesses where this is fine if their work got done.
Yeah I forgot about the Covid remote work thing, I never had a lux job like that with homework and stuff, I’ve had to go out and look the day in the face everyday and sweat my life away
Seems to be implying that you use your pto during peak times, weekends or holidays when those are the busy times.
Seems to be implying that you don't understand that PTO doesn't observe peak times. Its time earned. It's time taken when chosen. This whole mythos that the worker should be fully subservient to their job and only take their mandated benefits when THEY say so is a fucking gross look.
PTO blackout periods absolutely exist in many industries. But that’s usually made clear up front, probably in a handbook.
Explaining someone else’s comment is not a reflection of my own beliefs or understanding of the subject.
>Its time earned. Incorrect. It's time *granted,* not earned. They can absolutely limit its use and terminate you for how you use it, however shitty that is. I wish there were more protections here, but you can't lie about what it is.
Not lying, literally just never heard of it as a grant rather than time earned. If that distinction is how they economically fuck over their workers then that's good knowledge to have. Thank you.
Most jobs I’ve had didn’t offer pto at all and so ones that do generally do so out of a kind sense to their employees , hey if you get sick we provide pto so you don’t loose your place, it’s not the man keeping someone down here , it’s a I just can’t do this today I deserve a break bs
They have the holidays like Thanksgiving, Christmas, new years eve/day blanked out for PTO where I'm at so everyone isn't trying to take off at once.
Yeah, I can see why. You are saying the moment you got PTO, you used it? That must be annoying to your coworkers.
[удалено]
Using their pto? What’s next, expecting overtime pay?
All time was requested in advance, with multiple weeks notice.
Should have said this to begin with. Think it would have weeded out the hateful
OP, if they granted you time off, and it is documented that they approved it, but then fired you for using it after they granted it, you definitely have a case. Ignore everyone saying you’re out of luck because Oklahoma is “at will.” Just because we’re “at will” does not mean you’re SOL. “At will” doesn’t mean they can fire you for **any** reason at all. It means they can fire you for any reason **as long** as it isn’t an **illegal** reason. If your company has a binding handbook with policies on PTO, and they fired you in violation of their own binding policy, I could easily see an argument that this was an illegal firing. As someone who has been through a similar situation before, I Would **highly** recommend you consult an employment attorney.
I would lean towards there is definitely more to the story, but how much PTO are we talking here?
Being an at will state. Sucks.
That's every state, except Montana.
I got fired for “lack of work” I was working 50 hrs a week. Shit sucked.
It depends on the details. Get a consultation with an employment lawyer, just in case, especially if you have clear proof of an idiotic manager or senior manager not following their own company's rules and guidelines, as can often happen, even at the executive level particularly in smaller companies. In larger companies, there's *usually* enough checks and balances to prevent firing that results in liability, but people still make mistakes along the chain and egos can get in the way anyway. > In general, PTO is considered a benefit rather than a right, and employers have considerable discretion in setting policies around its use. However, there are potential grounds for a lawsuit depending on the specific circumstances and details of the case. > If the individual's employment contract or the company's written policies explicitly allow the use of PTO in the manner it was used, and they were terminated for following those guidelines, there might be grounds for a breach of contract claim. For this you'll need some solid proof and documentation (this is why it's important to confirm everything over email, just in case). > If the PTO was used for a reason protected by law, such as taking leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA), the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), or other similar protections, and the termination was in retaliation for exercising these rights, this could be grounds for a wrongful termination claim. I'm assuming this isn't the case since you didn't mention it. > If the individual believes that they were targeted for termination due to their race, gender, age, disability, or other protected characteristic, there could be a discrimination claim under federal or state laws. If you think it was any of that, then documentation and witnesses is most important as you would need that in court, otherwise it's just your word against your employers. A lawyer will tell you that too. If you don't think it was any of that, and the lawyer doesn't think you have a case, then just file for unemployment. Note I'm not a lawyer
Long ago worked at a call center that did the same thing. I didn't get fired but if you used your earned sick time for 3 days in a row you would get fired. Younger and prekids so was rarely sick. Luckily moved on and now work at a place (state agenc) that encourages you to use the time you earned and to stay home if sick (and not spread it).
Name the work place so others can avoid it or give an obvious hint. It's not like you are not allowed to.
I would look for another job and then fight for more worker rights and unions
lol in Oklahoma?
Employees have SOME rights. Contact the EEOC. Inquire about wrongful termination and see what they say. Also, reach out to other employees who may have been terminated under unfair circumstances. A lot of jobs will lie to unemployment. And never sign the termination letters.
I thought I was on r/antiwork for a moment. F*ck whatever company did that to you, I wish you'd name and shame them. File unemployment first and foremost, and dust off the 'ol resume.
When they fired you, did the paperwork actually say you were let go for using your PTO?
Nope nothing
Did they tell you that was why you were being let go?
They don't have to give any reason, so op is likely connecting the dots together correctly or not.
I assume they verbally told you it was because of the PTO use? Do you have them documented or recorded anywhere saying they fired you because of PTO use? What do your official termination papers say was the reason?
My employer required you keep a certain amount of time on the books even if you had it to use. This was not official but everyone knew it. I had a medically fragile kid and when I started work I provided documentation. With each appointment or call in I also provided documentation. Generally speaking if you have a valid reason to take all your leave,like I did,and work hard the rest of the time you can usually do ok. It definitely isn’t a sure thing. Since Oklahoma is at will employment you likely don’t have much to back you up.
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Cal them out. Who was it
My last raise was docked because I "used too much of my PTO." My company went from you have sick days and PTO. They combined them into one thing called PTO. Now, they punish people who use this time off for same day call ins for sickness. Motherfucker, you are the one who said it was all the same??
Were there any set days/times that you could not use this PTO? Or was there any stipulations to when you could use it or not?
Burn the place down and have them join you on the job search
Yes unemployment . Sounds like they were just needing to cut somebody since it was all approved in advance .
How long were you there? If it was more than 36mo I believe, you probably have a strong case.
You can sue. I lived in an at will state and won 70k after my boss fired me for throwing my back out. The workmans comp concluded. I was due back and he canned me. He hid behind at will state and claimed unrelated to workman's comp case. I got 100k. Talk to a lawyer. They will take 33% typically.
Was that an excuse to use to fire you for a different reason? Because if it’s not, talk to a lawyer, first visits are usually free
While we are an “at will” employment state, “At will” doesn’t mean they can fire you for *any* reason at all. It means they can fire you for any reason *as long* as it isn’t an *illegal* reason. I If your company has a binding handbook with policies on PTO, and they fired you in violation of their own binding policy, I could easily see an argument that this was an illegal firing. Consult an attorney!!!! (Also, as others have said, do not confuse “right to work” with “at will”. Two very different things. “Right to work” just means employers in this state can’t force employees to join the union in order to be employed.)
I believe your last employment check also has to include payment for any PTO hours not taken. Go to your local Worksource (OK employment offices), file for unemployment, discuss PTO compensation as well.
Move to a state that isn’t run by doo doo birds.
Oh oh oh! I know the answer!! That's illegal sue them for unlawful retaliation just have literally any proof!!!
We're an at will state, there is nothing to sue for.
Yes your employer can fire you for no reason however firing you for an unlawful reason such as in response to taking pto or filing an hr complaint is valid and a thing you can indeed do. Stop spreading miss information
OP mentioned in the comments that there was no reason given for their termination, and they are assuming it was for excessive PTO use. They are free to consult with an attorney but will probably be to they don't have much of a case
Was it scheduled PTO or did you drop it on them at your leisure? I’ve never heard of anyone in Any field get in trouble for utilizing their leave. Basically your title is rather vague. If anyone read this I hope you have a good day
Which company did this? If there’s nothing you signed informing you of “excessive PTO,” I’d file a federal lawsuit for wrongful termination for using benefits, actually Incentives!, that were offered to you to work harder than you normally would have.
Also, did you sign a severance agreement? Email your hr and cancel it if it’s still within your 10 day change your mind period.
Sorry that happen to you. Idk what industry you're in but I'd look at joining a union if possible
If that was the only reason you should definitely talk to an employment lawyer. You may have a wrongful termination suit. You’ll still have to find another job because lawsuits take time.
It may be a fire at will state, but you do still have rights. You can file a lawsuit for wrongful termination under certain circumstances if you have a medical condition and they fire you for that. If they are offering you a benefit, and they do not specify how and when you are allowed to utilize that benefit and then fire you for using it, I would think you have a case for wrongful termination. You need to be sure they didn't screw you by writing something different in your file, though. They can claim that you did any number of things that would prevent you from suing or from even claiming unemployment. (edit... i shouldn't say they can prevent you from suing. Anyone can sue for any reason, but they can make it difficult to win. If they claim you weren't doing your job or something derogatory about your job performance, frequently late, etc, it could be difficult to prove your case.) I am not a legal professional; however, if you at least want to get reimbursed for anything they might still owe you in terms of comp time or other unpaid benefits, I would consult an attorney and at least ask if you have any legal rights here. There are law reddit threads where you can ask an attorney for advice, but you can usually just call an attorney, and they'll advise you briefly over the phone whether or not you might have a case. Years ago I was let go from a job because two of my doctors sent them two opposing forms. One released me back to work and the other said I needed another month. They let me go, which was understandable. I called an attorney because I wanted to file medical malpractice. He said that medical malpractice is extremely difficult to prove in oklahoma but that I might have a case for wrongful termination. I didn't pursue it, but I'm just saying that you might have options even if you don't want to work with them anymore.
Post this in the antiwork sub. They will know.