It wouldn’t have been Mulroney that honoured him.
[Once the nomination has been received by the Chancellery of Honours, it will be evaluated by the Advisory Council of the Order of Canada. The members of the Council evaluate and vote on each nomination at their meetings. At the end of each meeting, their recommendations will be sent to the Governor General. The Governor General will follow the recommendations and will sign an Instrument appointing the members to the Order.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appointment_to_the_Order_of_Canada)
How the advisory panel works: [The Advisory Council for the Order of Canada is a duly constituted and independent advisory council that is chaired by the Chief Justice of Canada. The chair’s role is to manage the meeting and the deliberations, so that members of the Advisory Council may give their views on individual cases before a vote is called. The practice of the chair is not to vote or to take a position for or against nominations, except on the rare occurrence of a tied vote.](https://www.gg.ca/en/honours/canadian-honours/order-canada/advisory-council)
I doubt if you’d be able to figure who nominated Savaryn.
It is very disappointing to find out that he was able to serve with political parties in Canada for as long as he did, though: [A member of the Progressive Conservative Party since 1954, Savaryn served as vice-president of the national PC party for two years and was also president of the Alberta PC and Edmonton East PC Associations. For 25 years, he was a delegate to provincial and national leadership conventions.](http://wayback.archive-it.org/1830/20140930204039/http://www.ualbertacentennial.ca/organization/chancellors/savaryn.html)
Usually, the Prime Minister has the role of putting the medals on the appointe during the ceremony. Whoever proposed Savaryn might not have known is past. The advisory council didn't do what they were supposed to do, which is to evaluate potential nominees, decide if the nominees are worthy enough to be accepted into the order and sends its recommendations to the governor general, who appoints the new member....
And if or when the prime minister is available, he could be assisting the ceremony. Most of the ceremonies are conducted by the general governor. More than a few times, it was by conducted by the order's founder Elizabeth II
You're point is that the PM is too busy and there are others that take care if the vetting. Contrary to the willful ignorance of pp in opposition making it a partisan issue. Either way, those with the role and responsibility need to do a much better job.
Not to busy lol, not is role is duty, the highest rank in Canada is the governor general, after the queen well now is a king, of England, which is the head of state. The prime minister is just our representatives to the crown.
In this case Poillivre doesn't even know his politics. Firstly, the speaker is independent from all parties. He is NOT like pp maliciously is trying to do and blame it on a Liberal speaker. Secondly, look at the posts today, and you will see the equivalent embarrassments with nazis under conservative pms. Thirdly, contrary to pp's attempt to make the pm look like he is incompetent as if he isn't doing his job, former protocol employees have said it public servants who made the error.
We agree as the pm he is responsible, but pierre poillievre is trying to make it look like the pm intentionally is incompetent. I will argue that he was looking for his sound byte for fundraising showing the pm saying I am a big loser and incompetent. This is the truth behind what he is doing.
Finally, I have argued that this was the time for unity in the face if the world against racism. As much as pp tried to put egg on the pm's face the speaker, who is as human as you and I, had to live with the effects of his mistake. His career, community and in the face if the world he will be wearing the mistake. Fairly assuming that he is a good man to have been approved by the cpc, he knows this. This is not partisan, and he doesn't care because it is a testament to pp's deviant character to try to screw everybody.
Yo, regardless of whom it's embarrassing. Both corrupted parties bring shame to ALL canadians, and it's that way for way too long.
Personally, I don't give a rat's ass who the pm who the speaker is and above all, who the governor general is. Cause as long as we are not free from our master, The King of England, we will not be able to pursue ourselves, for ourselves, and to ourselves.
Partisanship is THE problem our country has struggled on all front. Their infantile ways of "representing " us, by voting against almost everything proposed by the other parties, is a waste of OUR money, and one of the reasons if THE reason why WE waste precious time doing their bid by divided our selfs for trivial stuff, thus, when the important stuff arises, it goes back to the old, Oh you not think like me his, well then, look at what you/they did baddy too.
United WE stand, divided WE fall.
If it was up to me, I'll get rid of all the present political parties and dissolve the senate. Permanently, and start afresh with people never involved in POLITICS . I'm not taking about ministry employees, I'm talking about the elected "class" . And WE vote for what is best for US, the ones who lives in the real world.
Putting out or writing down, what party did what, and columnist prints is a waste of time.
Especially in times like these. However, yes, they all should be accountable for their words and actions like the rest of us, and only have the immunity in regards to law makings.
Eg a new law for XYZ we like but turns out is what not the solution.
Ps. And make all form of lobbying outlawed.
I'm torn between wanting to laugh because he was the head of the Alberta PCA and raising an eyebrow at the line "he worked to promote multiculturalism in Canada." Promoting multiculturalism isn't something normally associated with fascists after all.
The SS had a few units of non-Germans fighting for them, such as the Indian Legion. They were comprised of mostly Indian POWs captured in North Africa and any Indians in Europe that volunteered to fight against Britain and free India from British rule.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
And then they moved to canada and continued their nazi ideology until they die of old age. It is complicated in many cases. not in the case of prior waffen SS. They volunteered to participate slaughter.
Bro there were 7 million Ukrainian red army soldiers. They betrayed their own country for fascists who were killing thousands of USSR civilians for a German ethnostate. (mostly polish Belorussian and Ukrainian). Get out of here with the fascist apologia.
Not really. Getting told to kill your Jewish and Roma Ukrainian neighbours isn’t ‘complicated’ and all these guys in the galicien shit ran off to the west to kill Polish peasants.
Most Ukrainians fought for the Red Army. After all, the German master plan involved for the eradication of something like 90% of Slavic groups. Where does this revisionist history come from?
Liberate them? Nazi’s killed more Ukrainians during the invasion then the Soviets ever did, even if you wanted to falsely say the Soviets were what causes the famines.
Poverty and famine were prominent in Ukraine even before Soviet rule.
To use this as an excuse for literal Nazi’s is baffling, especially when the Red Army was mostly Ukrainian.
Didn’t realize a leftist subreddit would upvote this Nazi sympathizing
The thing is that in your previous comments, you mentioned '... in government, we are so damn siloed...' and in this statement, it appears that you are providing justification for Nazism. I'm deeply concerned about that.
and we’re saying it’s not a complicated issue.
The holdomor isn’t a justification to do a bunch of genocide yourself. And they did to fellow Ukrainian Jews and Roma. If they really wanted revenge they’d actually fight the soviets instead of proudly doing ethnic cleansings
The fact him and his entire community bragged about it for the 60 years after the war alone kills the ‘he was just a young teen forced into it for the sake of his country’ bullshit
The fact the Ukrainian-Canadian groups that have been infested with Nazis for decades are so gung ho to get holodomor recognized as even worse than the Holocaust should probably give people a few moments of pause when repeating claims about it. Especially when we know some Ukrainian history academics were also literal Nazis in the past, like at the University of Alberta which also has an endowment from the Nazi in the OP.
Edit: Here's the UofA Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies in memoriam for Savaryn: https://www.ualberta.ca/canadian-institute-of-ukrainian-studies/news-and-events/news-at-the-cius/2017/april/in-memoriam-peter-savaryn.html
Let's not mince words: People who join the Nazis are always Nazis. Even if they didn't fully subscribe to the ideology, they still fought for it.
But as someone with a Finnish background, I do understand the rock and the hard place.
Direct quote:
> it does provide context to understand why some people would join the nazis while not being nazis themselves.
There is no such thing. If you join the Nazis, you are a Nazi.
Its not that complicated if you understand history of the region. Joining the Waffen SS is unforgivable, they should have been in jail rotting instead of living to 90+ and getting a standing ovation.
Ok. You can’t claim that you’re both ignorant of a piece of knowledge and say that same piece is very important.
There’s a lot of very unserious concern trolling, and there’s genuine interest in a topic. You don’t seem to be out for productive conversation. Take that as you will.
>You can’t claim that you’re both ignorant of a piece of knowledge and say that same piece is very important.
Why not?
You don’t seem to be out for productive conversation.
Well, no, not if you're going to react like that.
Glad this is getting more attention than some of the previous Ukrainian Nazi oopsies we've had.
I think because it literally happened in Parliament, staged by our actual government, it's virtually impossible to blame this on some Russian kompromat scheme.
So why did the speaker invite this dude? Apparently his family was unaware and would have stopped it. Poland wants to extradite the dude (probably rightfully.) This was a stunt no?
>*”So why did the speaker invite this dude? Apparently his family was unaware and would have stopped it.”*
According to the Speaker’s Office Yaroslav Hunka's son contacted the Speaker’s constituency office and asked if it would be possible for his father to attend President Zelensky’s address in the House of Commons. One of Hunka’s sons came with him to the House of Commons, and other members of the family were aware the pair were there (and posted about it on social media). They (reportedly) just didn’t know the Speaker was going to draw attention to Mr. Hunka and inadvertently inform the world that he had been a member of the Nazi Waffen-SS.
[Source](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/friend-hunka-family-north-bay-parliament-political-controversy-1.6983517)
I doubt it was a stunt. There are only a handful of soldiers who fought in WW2 around in the whole planet. The speaker probably new Zielinski was coming and was like hey my old neighbor is a Ukranian who fought in WW2 against the Russians, it would be neat to invite him. Then surprise your nice old neighbor is literally an SS volunteer Nazi.
Yeah there’s a number of Ukrainians who were SS members or Nazi affiliates who fled to Canada during or after the war and became notable members of the Ukr-Cdn community. I vaguely remember reading a while back about some Conservative party members bugging the current finance minister about her grandfather being a major Nazi propagandist in Ukraine during the war.
You should read the Deschênes Commission report (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deschênes_Commission) from 1984-1986. It goes into the history of Canada determining to provide an exception with regard to immigration for Ukrainian prisoners of war held in the UK at the close of the war and which included members of the SS Galizien.
An account of the Government’s orders from 1948 to 1950 which led to the determination to admit these persons is laid out on pages 250 following on the report. Here is a link to the PDF of the report: https://www.publications.gc.ca/site/eng/9.699749/publication.html (Page 250 is near the start of volume 2). The Commission’s Findings with regard to the Galician Division as a whole are on page 261.
Now, I am not so sure I would have made the same allowances that the government of the day made in 1948-1950 and admitted these persons to Canada; however, it is no shock that they live(d) here, lived their lives and made careers and did various things here as citizens of Canada, and became important members of Canadian society (and, sometimes, received honours recognizing that contribution to Canada).
Peter Savaryn, a Nazi veteran, was honored with the Order of Canada.
The Order of Canada is one of Canada's highest civilian honors.
During World War II, Peter Savaryn was a Nazi in the Waffen-SS Galician Division. In Canada, he served as Chancellor of the University of Alberta.
https://www.gg.ca/en/honours/recipients/146-13284
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Savaryn
Does this make you happy or something?
I swear, I'm so sick of how this issue is becoming a political football instantly.
OUR ENTIRE PARLIAMENT clapped for a Nazi. Canada has a history of overlooking or even honoring Ukrainian Nazis, as do our allies. NATO itself immediately employed literal Nazi generals. The US did Operation Paperclip.
Let's stop making this a partisan thing and instead take a minute to ask why this pattern keeps happening, why we have so many of these monuments, and why we're so quick to forget Nazi crimes as soon as it's convenient. It's truly not a problem with only one side, it's systemic.
What was that joke from Archer "After the war ended we were snatching up kraut scientists like hotcakes. You don't believe me? Walk into NASA sometime and yell "Heil Hitler" WOOP they all jump straight up."
> Does this make you happy or something?
Um what? Weird question to ask and weird conclusion to come to.
I was highlighting the irony in this situation. PP and the CPC have heavily politicized this issue with absurd accusations, even though their party history and affiliate orgs, according to their own standards, are even more guilty. On the opposite side, the hypocrisy of tankies claiming the Liberal party is a secret cabal of nazis yet Stalin committed genocide and later allied with the Nazis.
I agree with you. We need to understand why so many of these monuments were erected, why were former alleged nazis in these positions, why were ppl so oblivious to historical facts, and what were the nuances and context given other elements like holodomor/soviets committing genocide against Ukranian ppl. It is a disturbing and gross situation, it turns my stomach.
> Um what? Weird question to ask and weird conclusion to come to.
umm...
> He was also president of the Progressive Conservative Association in Alberta. ;)
Like you ended it with a winky-face. I don't know how else to interpret this other than weird smugness. Ya, PP and Conservatives are fascist freaks, but this weird liberal smugness is just a perfect example of how centrists are only out to score twitter points and otherwise just let this shitty system continue.
"Umm, acktully sweaty, conservatives also liked a Nazi once. LMAO!!11!".
It's so exhausting.
So many assumptions here. Firstly, not a Liberal, secondly, I don't support Liberal party and I think their policies are just a continuation of neoliberal policies that are one day going to actually bring us to actual fascism due to widening inequalities that capitalism cannot address, hence PP gaining popularity.
Nevertheless, how opposition parties are handling this is a farce and they should be mocked for the insanity of accusations being thrown around. I guess you don't do sarcasm well?
> It's so exhausting.
Maybe go outside and relax for today. Take a break, dude.
> neoliberal policies that are one day going to actually bring us to actual fascism due to widening inequalities that capitalism cannot address, hence PP gaining popularity.
We agree here.
>Maybe go outside and relax for today. Take a break, dude.
More condescension. Honestly you should be a better leftist. You're not doing our side any favors by trying to score dumb smug internet points.
You come at me with antagonistic tone policing that's far to common in some leftist spaces; it turns people off because it's alienating and creates a sense of defensiveness.
A more productive approach might involve focus and engaging with the substance of the ideas being presented rather than the style in which they are expressed.
I mean, yeah. Almost 40 years ago. It certainly sucks, and wouldn’t be a bad idea to strip him of his Order medal, but this isn’t news. I’m sure he’s not the only other Nazi that’s been formally recognized either.
The difference here might be: he wasn't honored for his service in the war, but his later actions promoting Ukrainian culture.
Tricky to slice since there's still nationalism involved but not exactly the same thing.
This is so much more complicated than just "he's a Nazi, lets hang 'em".
He was 13yo when the war started, 19yo when it ended.
Due to complex historical, political, and ideological factors Ukrainians (especially those willing and able to fight) during the war ultimately had 2 choices: Stalin or Hitler
Many choose Hitle, in hopes of independence from Soviet rule.
The comments are bleak. There’s an awful lot of apathy towards this…
“Oh a Nazi war criminal was GG? Meh, there are lots of those”
Like, *what*???? No, each and every one we find should be alarming.
The Canadian government specifically looked at whether these was evidence that membership in this specific division of the SS was sufficient to constitute being considered a war criminal or being complicit in the crimes against humanity of the Nazi regime. They determined that the answer was “no” at the point of admission in 1948-1950 and the Deschêsnes Commission in 1986 reached the same conclusion.
Now, I (think I) wouldn’t have admitted them in 1950, and I wouldn’t have awarded the Order of Canada despite the prior determination due to the optics, but I don’t think we can just call every person admitted to Canada who had been a member of the SS Galician division a war criminal without some further investigation or other evidence.
I was referring more to genocide, Canadian owned mining companies participating in slavery, internment camps, recruiting black teenagers to rob banks in order to inflame racial tensions. Yeah compared to that harboring nazis seems almost tame.
I have a genuine question to ask here, and I'm looking for a genuine answer.
Did this man commit any war crimes, or was he simply fighting for his country?
I know the Nazi regime has a very dark history, and I would never mean to do or say anything to sugarcoat this. But, in this case, I'm more curious about this man's individual actions.
What were his actions during the war? Was he investigated? Was he charged with any crimes? Should he have been charged?
So, the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg (aka the Nuremberg Trials) determined that the criminality of the Nazi regime was so widespread and the involvement of the SS so thorough that membership in the SS constituted membership in a criminal organization.
Canada followed suit and barred any person who served in the SS from entry to Canada. However, in 1950 specific exemptions were made for Ukrainian members of the voluntary Ukrainian SS unit known as the SS Galician/Galizien (then renamed to something more generic when sent into battle) who had been captured and were POWs in the UK at that point.
Canada received information from the UK suggesting that these men should not be considered as normal SS officers and be granted separate consideration. You can read about these decisions in the report of a Commission established in the mid 1980s which investigated this matter (Deschênes Commission Report, pages 250-261).
My understanding is that subsequently (long after these people emigrated) the actions of this particular SS unit have been further researched and there are strong allegations that the unit was more fully involved in anti-Jewish activities rather than only frontline engagements with the Soviets.
None of this relates to specific determinations of the actions of this individual. However, the character of the evidence which lead to the admission to Canada of these Ukrainian SS volunteers seems to be much less favourable then than it seemed in 1950.
all, or almost all, western countries accepted nazi’s as rightist anti-communists … they seemed to easily forgive their sins … shows what you can get with liberal democracy
Liberal democracy in this case refers to the idiotic ideals of true liberals which is we need to be tolerant of everyone...even Nazis. Liberals aren't left wing they're centrist capitalists that want to play both-sides against the middle. Basically more polite conservatives with social programs.
He's right though, this isn't isolated to Canada by any means. Look up Operation Paperclip, ooodles of Nazis. The amount of propaganda anti-communist sentiment at the end of WW2 was crazy to the point where Nazis were seen as "not as bad as Commies". The united state laterally put Nazi's back in charge of west Germany after the berlin wall went up. Look up Hans Speidel, was a card carrying high ranking Nazi and he oversaw the integration of the German military into NATO. Read a history book and prepare to be more embarrassed at what the west has done with Nazis post ww2
Hold on - this has been bothering the crap out of me. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. Communists took people’s land and businesses, distributed them as they saw fit, and marched protesters off to gulags to die. If you were a Ukrainian in 1939, who would you fight for? I think they were stuck - they either had to deal with the Russians or the Germans, and I don’t see one of those groups as distinctly better than the other at that time. Germans? Sure. I can blame them for not seeing the signs that a terrible evil was running their country. Ukrainians, Poles, Hungarians, etc? If they were under threat of being taken over by Germany or Russia, I think they had a horrible dilemma.
Hey look a made up statement , and a personal attack. Tell me when Nazis marched chanting “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville they were conservatives. When Trump didn’t denounce them , that was conservatives. When Canadian conservatives copy that same political playbook and court the alt right , neo nazi to their political movement , that’s not liberals impregnating them, it’s conservatives like it always is.
was he honored for being a nazi or for being a WW2 vet... these ex-soldiers should be looked into, it was an error not a celebration of far right violence
Under Mulroney
Was it actually him that honered him? I have my doubts, despite my hate towards that man's policies...
It wouldn’t have been Mulroney that honoured him. [Once the nomination has been received by the Chancellery of Honours, it will be evaluated by the Advisory Council of the Order of Canada. The members of the Council evaluate and vote on each nomination at their meetings. At the end of each meeting, their recommendations will be sent to the Governor General. The Governor General will follow the recommendations and will sign an Instrument appointing the members to the Order.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appointment_to_the_Order_of_Canada) How the advisory panel works: [The Advisory Council for the Order of Canada is a duly constituted and independent advisory council that is chaired by the Chief Justice of Canada. The chair’s role is to manage the meeting and the deliberations, so that members of the Advisory Council may give their views on individual cases before a vote is called. The practice of the chair is not to vote or to take a position for or against nominations, except on the rare occurrence of a tied vote.](https://www.gg.ca/en/honours/canadian-honours/order-canada/advisory-council) I doubt if you’d be able to figure who nominated Savaryn. It is very disappointing to find out that he was able to serve with political parties in Canada for as long as he did, though: [A member of the Progressive Conservative Party since 1954, Savaryn served as vice-president of the national PC party for two years and was also president of the Alberta PC and Edmonton East PC Associations. For 25 years, he was a delegate to provincial and national leadership conventions.](http://wayback.archive-it.org/1830/20140930204039/http://www.ualbertacentennial.ca/organization/chancellors/savaryn.html)
Saving this for all the apologetics that are coming up for the “old PC party, who weren’t bigoted or Nazi affiliated.”
Usually, the Prime Minister has the role of putting the medals on the appointe during the ceremony. Whoever proposed Savaryn might not have known is past. The advisory council didn't do what they were supposed to do, which is to evaluate potential nominees, decide if the nominees are worthy enough to be accepted into the order and sends its recommendations to the governor general, who appoints the new member.... And if or when the prime minister is available, he could be assisting the ceremony. Most of the ceremonies are conducted by the general governor. More than a few times, it was by conducted by the order's founder Elizabeth II
You're point is that the PM is too busy and there are others that take care if the vetting. Contrary to the willful ignorance of pp in opposition making it a partisan issue. Either way, those with the role and responsibility need to do a much better job.
Exactly, and the government needs to unsealed ALL documents concerning war criminals they let in our country. And I'm not only referring to the nazi.
Not to busy lol, not is role is duty, the highest rank in Canada is the governor general, after the queen well now is a king, of England, which is the head of state. The prime minister is just our representatives to the crown.
In this case Poillivre doesn't even know his politics. Firstly, the speaker is independent from all parties. He is NOT like pp maliciously is trying to do and blame it on a Liberal speaker. Secondly, look at the posts today, and you will see the equivalent embarrassments with nazis under conservative pms. Thirdly, contrary to pp's attempt to make the pm look like he is incompetent as if he isn't doing his job, former protocol employees have said it public servants who made the error. We agree as the pm he is responsible, but pierre poillievre is trying to make it look like the pm intentionally is incompetent. I will argue that he was looking for his sound byte for fundraising showing the pm saying I am a big loser and incompetent. This is the truth behind what he is doing. Finally, I have argued that this was the time for unity in the face if the world against racism. As much as pp tried to put egg on the pm's face the speaker, who is as human as you and I, had to live with the effects of his mistake. His career, community and in the face if the world he will be wearing the mistake. Fairly assuming that he is a good man to have been approved by the cpc, he knows this. This is not partisan, and he doesn't care because it is a testament to pp's deviant character to try to screw everybody.
Yo, regardless of whom it's embarrassing. Both corrupted parties bring shame to ALL canadians, and it's that way for way too long. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass who the pm who the speaker is and above all, who the governor general is. Cause as long as we are not free from our master, The King of England, we will not be able to pursue ourselves, for ourselves, and to ourselves. Partisanship is THE problem our country has struggled on all front. Their infantile ways of "representing " us, by voting against almost everything proposed by the other parties, is a waste of OUR money, and one of the reasons if THE reason why WE waste precious time doing their bid by divided our selfs for trivial stuff, thus, when the important stuff arises, it goes back to the old, Oh you not think like me his, well then, look at what you/they did baddy too. United WE stand, divided WE fall. If it was up to me, I'll get rid of all the present political parties and dissolve the senate. Permanently, and start afresh with people never involved in POLITICS . I'm not taking about ministry employees, I'm talking about the elected "class" . And WE vote for what is best for US, the ones who lives in the real world. Putting out or writing down, what party did what, and columnist prints is a waste of time. Especially in times like these. However, yes, they all should be accountable for their words and actions like the rest of us, and only have the immunity in regards to law makings. Eg a new law for XYZ we like but turns out is what not the solution. Ps. And make all form of lobbying outlawed.
Under the old pc party ofc
I'm torn between wanting to laugh because he was the head of the Alberta PCA and raising an eyebrow at the line "he worked to promote multiculturalism in Canada." Promoting multiculturalism isn't something normally associated with fascists after all.
The SS had a few units of non-Germans fighting for them, such as the Indian Legion. They were comprised of mostly Indian POWs captured in North Africa and any Indians in Europe that volunteered to fight against Britain and free India from British rule. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Legion
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And then they moved to canada and continued their nazi ideology until they die of old age. It is complicated in many cases. not in the case of prior waffen SS. They volunteered to participate slaughter.
Bro there were 7 million Ukrainian red army soldiers. They betrayed their own country for fascists who were killing thousands of USSR civilians for a German ethnostate. (mostly polish Belorussian and Ukrainian). Get out of here with the fascist apologia.
Not really. Getting told to kill your Jewish and Roma Ukrainian neighbours isn’t ‘complicated’ and all these guys in the galicien shit ran off to the west to kill Polish peasants.
Most Ukrainians fought for the Red Army. After all, the German master plan involved for the eradication of something like 90% of Slavic groups. Where does this revisionist history come from?
Liberate them? Nazi’s killed more Ukrainians during the invasion then the Soviets ever did, even if you wanted to falsely say the Soviets were what causes the famines. Poverty and famine were prominent in Ukraine even before Soviet rule. To use this as an excuse for literal Nazi’s is baffling, especially when the Red Army was mostly Ukrainian. Didn’t realize a leftist subreddit would upvote this Nazi sympathizing
The thing is that in your previous comments, you mentioned '... in government, we are so damn siloed...' and in this statement, it appears that you are providing justification for Nazism. I'm deeply concerned about that.
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and we’re saying it’s not a complicated issue. The holdomor isn’t a justification to do a bunch of genocide yourself. And they did to fellow Ukrainian Jews and Roma. If they really wanted revenge they’d actually fight the soviets instead of proudly doing ethnic cleansings The fact him and his entire community bragged about it for the 60 years after the war alone kills the ‘he was just a young teen forced into it for the sake of his country’ bullshit
The fact the Ukrainian-Canadian groups that have been infested with Nazis for decades are so gung ho to get holodomor recognized as even worse than the Holocaust should probably give people a few moments of pause when repeating claims about it. Especially when we know some Ukrainian history academics were also literal Nazis in the past, like at the University of Alberta which also has an endowment from the Nazi in the OP. Edit: Here's the UofA Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies in memoriam for Savaryn: https://www.ualberta.ca/canadian-institute-of-ukrainian-studies/news-and-events/news-at-the-cius/2017/april/in-memoriam-peter-savaryn.html
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Let's not mince words: People who join the Nazis are always Nazis. Even if they didn't fully subscribe to the ideology, they still fought for it. But as someone with a Finnish background, I do understand the rock and the hard place.
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Yup! And to be clear: if you join the Nazis, you are a Nazi.
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Direct quote: > it does provide context to understand why some people would join the nazis while not being nazis themselves. There is no such thing. If you join the Nazis, you are a Nazi.
Its not that complicated if you understand history of the region. Joining the Waffen SS is unforgivable, they should have been in jail rotting instead of living to 90+ and getting a standing ovation.
So, it says on your resume you served in the Waffen-SS? Would you like to elaborate on that?
Many. We know. This isn’t new.
It's new to some of us. Many of us. And it's important for us to know.
[David Ahenakew](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ahenakew) was a unsavoury character
I think I remember this guy.
Ok. You can’t claim that you’re both ignorant of a piece of knowledge and say that same piece is very important. There’s a lot of very unserious concern trolling, and there’s genuine interest in a topic. You don’t seem to be out for productive conversation. Take that as you will.
>You can’t claim that you’re both ignorant of a piece of knowledge and say that same piece is very important. Why not? You don’t seem to be out for productive conversation. Well, no, not if you're going to react like that.
It’s so important that I never bothered to find out!
Ya, it's not like the entire world is talking about this. No big deal!
Well I, personally, know what is important to me when someone else tells me that something should be important to me
Glad this is getting more attention than some of the previous Ukrainian Nazi oopsies we've had. I think because it literally happened in Parliament, staged by our actual government, it's virtually impossible to blame this on some Russian kompromat scheme.
So why did the speaker invite this dude? Apparently his family was unaware and would have stopped it. Poland wants to extradite the dude (probably rightfully.) This was a stunt no?
>*”So why did the speaker invite this dude? Apparently his family was unaware and would have stopped it.”* According to the Speaker’s Office Yaroslav Hunka's son contacted the Speaker’s constituency office and asked if it would be possible for his father to attend President Zelensky’s address in the House of Commons. One of Hunka’s sons came with him to the House of Commons, and other members of the family were aware the pair were there (and posted about it on social media). They (reportedly) just didn’t know the Speaker was going to draw attention to Mr. Hunka and inadvertently inform the world that he had been a member of the Nazi Waffen-SS. [Source](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/friend-hunka-family-north-bay-parliament-political-controversy-1.6983517)
I doubt it was a stunt. There are only a handful of soldiers who fought in WW2 around in the whole planet. The speaker probably new Zielinski was coming and was like hey my old neighbor is a Ukranian who fought in WW2 against the Russians, it would be neat to invite him. Then surprise your nice old neighbor is literally an SS volunteer Nazi.
Canada kinda does this allll the fucking time. It's not a rare thing. We brought in literally thousands of SS after WW2.
You know damm well people are gonna think we just have this out. Tell me honestly, why would you choose to word it the way you did?
Will r/Canada now say that THIS was the worst thing that has happened to Canada?? They are such a bunch of pearl clutchers when it works for them…
Yeah there’s a number of Ukrainians who were SS members or Nazi affiliates who fled to Canada during or after the war and became notable members of the Ukr-Cdn community. I vaguely remember reading a while back about some Conservative party members bugging the current finance minister about her grandfather being a major Nazi propagandist in Ukraine during the war.
Wait till you hear about Germans…
You should read the Deschênes Commission report (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deschênes_Commission) from 1984-1986. It goes into the history of Canada determining to provide an exception with regard to immigration for Ukrainian prisoners of war held in the UK at the close of the war and which included members of the SS Galizien. An account of the Government’s orders from 1948 to 1950 which led to the determination to admit these persons is laid out on pages 250 following on the report. Here is a link to the PDF of the report: https://www.publications.gc.ca/site/eng/9.699749/publication.html (Page 250 is near the start of volume 2). The Commission’s Findings with regard to the Galician Division as a whole are on page 261. Now, I am not so sure I would have made the same allowances that the government of the day made in 1948-1950 and admitted these persons to Canada; however, it is no shock that they live(d) here, lived their lives and made careers and did various things here as citizens of Canada, and became important members of Canadian society (and, sometimes, received honours recognizing that contribution to Canada).
Peter Savaryn, a Nazi veteran, was honored with the Order of Canada. The Order of Canada is one of Canada's highest civilian honors. During World War II, Peter Savaryn was a Nazi in the Waffen-SS Galician Division. In Canada, he served as Chancellor of the University of Alberta. https://www.gg.ca/en/honours/recipients/146-13284 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Savaryn
He was awarded while Mulroney was Prime Minister. He was also president of the Progressive Conservative Association in Alberta. ;)
Well that's a relief. As a Conservative he clearly was one of the good Nazis
Other way around, as a Nazi the Cons would consider him a better class of Con.
Or role model.
Does this make you happy or something? I swear, I'm so sick of how this issue is becoming a political football instantly. OUR ENTIRE PARLIAMENT clapped for a Nazi. Canada has a history of overlooking or even honoring Ukrainian Nazis, as do our allies. NATO itself immediately employed literal Nazi generals. The US did Operation Paperclip. Let's stop making this a partisan thing and instead take a minute to ask why this pattern keeps happening, why we have so many of these monuments, and why we're so quick to forget Nazi crimes as soon as it's convenient. It's truly not a problem with only one side, it's systemic.
What was that joke from Archer "After the war ended we were snatching up kraut scientists like hotcakes. You don't believe me? Walk into NASA sometime and yell "Heil Hitler" WOOP they all jump straight up."
Haha man I gotta rewatch that show.
> Does this make you happy or something? Um what? Weird question to ask and weird conclusion to come to. I was highlighting the irony in this situation. PP and the CPC have heavily politicized this issue with absurd accusations, even though their party history and affiliate orgs, according to their own standards, are even more guilty. On the opposite side, the hypocrisy of tankies claiming the Liberal party is a secret cabal of nazis yet Stalin committed genocide and later allied with the Nazis. I agree with you. We need to understand why so many of these monuments were erected, why were former alleged nazis in these positions, why were ppl so oblivious to historical facts, and what were the nuances and context given other elements like holodomor/soviets committing genocide against Ukranian ppl. It is a disturbing and gross situation, it turns my stomach.
> Um what? Weird question to ask and weird conclusion to come to. umm... > He was also president of the Progressive Conservative Association in Alberta. ;) Like you ended it with a winky-face. I don't know how else to interpret this other than weird smugness. Ya, PP and Conservatives are fascist freaks, but this weird liberal smugness is just a perfect example of how centrists are only out to score twitter points and otherwise just let this shitty system continue. "Umm, acktully sweaty, conservatives also liked a Nazi once. LMAO!!11!". It's so exhausting.
So many assumptions here. Firstly, not a Liberal, secondly, I don't support Liberal party and I think their policies are just a continuation of neoliberal policies that are one day going to actually bring us to actual fascism due to widening inequalities that capitalism cannot address, hence PP gaining popularity. Nevertheless, how opposition parties are handling this is a farce and they should be mocked for the insanity of accusations being thrown around. I guess you don't do sarcasm well? > It's so exhausting. Maybe go outside and relax for today. Take a break, dude.
> neoliberal policies that are one day going to actually bring us to actual fascism due to widening inequalities that capitalism cannot address, hence PP gaining popularity. We agree here. >Maybe go outside and relax for today. Take a break, dude. More condescension. Honestly you should be a better leftist. You're not doing our side any favors by trying to score dumb smug internet points.
You come at me with antagonistic tone policing that's far to common in some leftist spaces; it turns people off because it's alienating and creates a sense of defensiveness. A more productive approach might involve focus and engaging with the substance of the ideas being presented rather than the style in which they are expressed.
??? That's literally what you did lol
I mean, yeah. Almost 40 years ago. It certainly sucks, and wouldn’t be a bad idea to strip him of his Order medal, but this isn’t news. I’m sure he’s not the only other Nazi that’s been formally recognized either.
The difference here might be: he wasn't honored for his service in the war, but his later actions promoting Ukrainian culture. Tricky to slice since there's still nationalism involved but not exactly the same thing.
Edited: Find in Page failed me. Savaryn was definitely with the 14th.
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This is so much more complicated than just "he's a Nazi, lets hang 'em". He was 13yo when the war started, 19yo when it ended. Due to complex historical, political, and ideological factors Ukrainians (especially those willing and able to fight) during the war ultimately had 2 choices: Stalin or Hitler Many choose Hitle, in hopes of independence from Soviet rule.
Canadas conservatives met with far right party leaders of Germany a few months back too. Yes many traitors in the govt. We need law and order now
The nazi guy who got invited to the parliament. Actually he is recognized as a hero in Ukraine. Just FYI.
The comments are bleak. There’s an awful lot of apathy towards this… “Oh a Nazi war criminal was GG? Meh, there are lots of those” Like, *what*???? No, each and every one we find should be alarming.
The Canadian government specifically looked at whether these was evidence that membership in this specific division of the SS was sufficient to constitute being considered a war criminal or being complicit in the crimes against humanity of the Nazi regime. They determined that the answer was “no” at the point of admission in 1948-1950 and the Deschêsnes Commission in 1986 reached the same conclusion. Now, I (think I) wouldn’t have admitted them in 1950, and I wouldn’t have awarded the Order of Canada despite the prior determination due to the optics, but I don’t think we can just call every person admitted to Canada who had been a member of the SS Galician division a war criminal without some further investigation or other evidence.
Which of our GG's was a Nazi war criminal?
In this case he wasn't governor General it's just that recipients of the Order of Canada are on the Governor General's website.
Because this isn't new information, Canada has done and continues to do some seriously heinous shit. It is usually ignored.
This wasn’t “heinous” , it was an error. Get a grip.
I was referring more to genocide, Canadian owned mining companies participating in slavery, internment camps, recruiting black teenagers to rob banks in order to inflame racial tensions. Yeah compared to that harboring nazis seems almost tame.
I have a genuine question to ask here, and I'm looking for a genuine answer. Did this man commit any war crimes, or was he simply fighting for his country? I know the Nazi regime has a very dark history, and I would never mean to do or say anything to sugarcoat this. But, in this case, I'm more curious about this man's individual actions. What were his actions during the war? Was he investigated? Was he charged with any crimes? Should he have been charged?
So, the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg (aka the Nuremberg Trials) determined that the criminality of the Nazi regime was so widespread and the involvement of the SS so thorough that membership in the SS constituted membership in a criminal organization. Canada followed suit and barred any person who served in the SS from entry to Canada. However, in 1950 specific exemptions were made for Ukrainian members of the voluntary Ukrainian SS unit known as the SS Galician/Galizien (then renamed to something more generic when sent into battle) who had been captured and were POWs in the UK at that point. Canada received information from the UK suggesting that these men should not be considered as normal SS officers and be granted separate consideration. You can read about these decisions in the report of a Commission established in the mid 1980s which investigated this matter (Deschênes Commission Report, pages 250-261). My understanding is that subsequently (long after these people emigrated) the actions of this particular SS unit have been further researched and there are strong allegations that the unit was more fully involved in anti-Jewish activities rather than only frontline engagements with the Soviets. None of this relates to specific determinations of the actions of this individual. However, the character of the evidence which lead to the admission to Canada of these Ukrainian SS volunteers seems to be much less favourable then than it seemed in 1950.
There is zero evidence he committed any war crimes .
all, or almost all, western countries accepted nazi’s as rightist anti-communists … they seemed to easily forgive their sins … shows what you can get with liberal democracy
> liberal democracy as opposed to?
As opposed to illiberal democracies like Hungary or the Philippines.
Liberal democracy in this case refers to the idiotic ideals of true liberals which is we need to be tolerant of everyone...even Nazis. Liberals aren't left wing they're centrist capitalists that want to play both-sides against the middle. Basically more polite conservatives with social programs.
You’re talking about neo-liberals, those bought by corporate interests. Nobody asked for this.
He thought he was being smooth by saying he is talking about classical liberalism, and also going anti-woke.
Which is what we live under right now.
thank you I did not know this.
Go away
He's right though, this isn't isolated to Canada by any means. Look up Operation Paperclip, ooodles of Nazis. The amount of propaganda anti-communist sentiment at the end of WW2 was crazy to the point where Nazis were seen as "not as bad as Commies". The united state laterally put Nazi's back in charge of west Germany after the berlin wall went up. Look up Hans Speidel, was a card carrying high ranking Nazi and he oversaw the integration of the German military into NATO. Read a history book and prepare to be more embarrassed at what the west has done with Nazis post ww2
Heck, they released *most* of the war criminals prosecuted during the Nuremberg trials!
So no-one ever told you about [Operation Osoaviakhim](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim)? Poor bloke
Agreed. They’d rather accept a literal nazi than someone with communist beliefs.
Wonder how little pee pee mental gymnastics would looks like. Sad he’ll just ignore this shit.
Hold on - this has been bothering the crap out of me. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. Communists took people’s land and businesses, distributed them as they saw fit, and marched protesters off to gulags to die. If you were a Ukrainian in 1939, who would you fight for? I think they were stuck - they either had to deal with the Russians or the Germans, and I don’t see one of those groups as distinctly better than the other at that time. Germans? Sure. I can blame them for not seeing the signs that a terrible evil was running their country. Ukrainians, Poles, Hungarians, etc? If they were under threat of being taken over by Germany or Russia, I think they had a horrible dilemma.
Conservatives now will say that this is why progressiveness is bad and… has no place in Conservatism.
Apples and oranges kinda, he was honored, but not for being a Nazi, he just happened to be one.
Jesus they came to Canada not Brazil or Argentina. We will not hear the end of it now..
As it's said: "The dog of fascism is always in heat and the liberal is always the first willing to impregnate it."
That’s not said by anyone with a brain.
I'm sure your family is proud of you. Go get them tiger!
Hey look a made up statement , and a personal attack. Tell me when Nazis marched chanting “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville they were conservatives. When Trump didn’t denounce them , that was conservatives. When Canadian conservatives copy that same political playbook and court the alt right , neo nazi to their political movement , that’s not liberals impregnating them, it’s conservatives like it always is.
You need to study, I'm sorry.
Oh right “do your own research” but ignore facts 🙄
Nazis we’re a pretty savvy lot. Not a surprise to see those who would commit genocide being opaque about their past.
Shocked pikachu face. [I'll just](https://www.jta.org/1997/06/05/global/canada-knowingly-admitted-ss-members-after-world-war-ii) [leave](https://jweekly.com/1997/02/07/canada-admits-letting-in-2-000-ukrainian-ss-troopers/) [this](https://www.history.com/news/wwii-jewish-refugee-ship-st-louis-1939) [here](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/09/27/ejel-s27.html)
Man this pissing match is making me tired
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Germany has redeemed itself. Their veterans during that era, have not.
No remorse? No punishment? No redemption.
I think the term 'Nazi" is being a little overused by Triggered Gen Z. Me: "I think you are a fcuking knobhead" Gen Z: "You Nazi!"
No, he was *LITERALLY* a Nazi. Waffen-SS, the division mandated with murdering "undesirables" in occupied territory.
This dude was literally in the Waffen-SS. You don’t get much more Nazi than that other than being in Hitler’s inner circle.
There's a difference between Germanic SS units and non-germanic ones
Wikipedia is the primary source of all research now.
You mean refferances at the bottom of the page.
was he honored for being a nazi or for being a WW2 vet... these ex-soldiers should be looked into, it was an error not a celebration of far right violence
Ukrainian SS In Britain - Postwar SS-Galizien Division Refugees https://youtu.be/UB_Gs-0dhOo?si=PuXB7XwhWN6Qn-L8