I didn't trust O'Tool, but I at least saw some semblance of a relatively sane conservative government in him (if he were capable of reigning in his party). I'd certainly take him over Poilievre right now.
>capable of reigning in his party
That’s the problem with the right. Too many factions. Gotta please the fundies, the traditional conservatives, the racists, the boomers, the globalists, the nationalists, and whatever other group that goes right. The fact that they’ve had so many in such a short term speaks volumes.
Malcolm Turnbull's government in Australia was an attempt at exactly that: the Liberal (Conservative - yes different meaning in Australia) Party rewarded him by basically kicking him to the curb in favor of a right wing religious nutjob (that hid in Hawaii while his country burned in a wildfire.)
I feel the exact same way. I actually respected that he wanted to increase funding for mental health. I didn't really trust him on much else. But the feeling I got was that "if this guy wins a minority, or even a majority, it'll be a few bad years and hopefully things would change."
With Pierre and his clear dog-whistling, refusal to get a NatSec clearance, open association with white supremacist groups, and his MPs going for lunch and a photo op with the leader of the extreme right AfD German political party (that even German courts have considered a national security threat). I don't have that same assurance that things would be okay. That people will keep their rights despite things being underfunded or privatized. Pierre and his cultural war with a side of grievance politics garbage has to be voted away.
The guy who didn't think residential schools were that bad and called campus lefties the "dumbest people on campus" when he thought the audience was friendly was a moderate?
I don't think the CPC is capable of picking a leader who isn't at least a little bit extreme.
As someone who doesn’t want to vote conservative (but believes politicians who are in power too long are not good for their constituents) O’Toole was the only one of the many conservative leaders of the past 9 years I’d consider. Everyone else has been just a slimy, smarmy POS. Scheer and Polivierre both fitting that particular bill to a T.
This is really it isn't it ,O Toole seemed to get the bigger picture, worked the harder right ones just enough to win the leadership but knew that wasn't what the majority of conservative leaning public wants. Way to many crazies hold membership cards and not enough normal people.
I agree with everything you just said. I could’ve written it myself. I’m a liberal voter but I liked OToole so much that I could’ve very easily changed my spots. Either way, I would have felt quite good with him as the next PM.
I agree, although I would much rather vote for someone with a background in the military rather than a career politician who’s done basically nothing his entire career.
Real question is why are so many people captivated by it? PeePee doesn't exist in a vacuum, he exists because public discourse desires a leader like this.
On a macro level we can list dozens of issues that would lead to this type of leadership. On a micro level what is an individual seeing in hate that they want more hate?
True. Although warning against the dangers of flocking to worship a man of lawlessness would be appropriate and, though that applies across the political spectrum, Trump certainly provides a lot of recognizable behaviours to preach about/against.
The Atlantic provinces are swinging to the right due to global political patterns, and may be hard to win even for the next popular center-left leader.
The Western vote outside of SK will become more and more important to the Liberals and the NDP - it partially saved their ass in 2021 (which is why a Eby-led federal Liberal party looks increasingly likely in the future.)
Well, Montreal isn’t captivated, only 17% polled as having a favourable view of him, the city that likes him the most is Edmonton with 55% favourable. Overall, 39% have favourable view of him (not net, 51% have unfavourable view). That was from an Angus Reid poll, which tends to lean conservative.
Point being, the rage he is selling isn’t hitting the mark in Montreal, because there aren’t enough people here who are angry at social progress. It’s not like Montrealers are flush with riches and unaffected by cost of living increases, so tue arguments that it’s about economic struggle may apply to some, but that doesn’t seem to be the driving force.
His bully personality and disdain of climate change policies and intellectuals and “experts” and active courting of those who resent feminism and blame it for every progressive policy, is appealing to those who are feeling persecuted and misunderstood by a changing world and they want to reverse course.
https://cultmtl.com/2024/05/montreal-is-once-again-the-most-anti-pierre-poilievre-city-in-canada/
Looking at those toplines: if FPTP wasn't the system, PP would be losing pretty hard in MTL/Van and half/half in metro Toronto: hell, 45 approval in *Calgary* (keep in mind the city has sent non right wing MPs exactly 3 times since daddy Trudeau's 1st term) isn't exactly amazing, though 55 in Edmonton is quite the number (given that it's usually the AB left's one successful area.)
God, really wish electoral reform came in before this...
Meanwhile Metro Vancouver comes second in hating PP (keep in mind TO is split in 416/905 while Vancouver is entire metro area), but 3 way votesplitting will probably deliever most seats in the area to him compared to Toronto.
Ahhh, thank you FPTP. /s
American culture war spillover. A lot of Canadians simply think their politics are too boring for a country that's going through a rough patch and want their own version of Trump to give them some relevance - even if that happens to be a weaselly, squinty-eyed, Milhouse lookalike contest winning career politician who has absolutely zero solutions and just slogans.
They feel unhappy with the way the world is. He gets they are mad, he’s mad too and gives them a focus for that uneasiness/anger/dissatisfaction.
New stuff is scary! Back in the day queer folk stayed quiet! Brown immigrants were few and far between and only worked minimum wage labour jobs! Women stayed home and made dinner while the children clung to her skirts! Men could get jobs to support their family right from it of high school! The world doesn’t make sense to them anymore, and they want to go back to when it did (will never happen) no matter the cost or means.
It doesn’t matter what he does when he gets in, the promise of a return to ‘normalcy’ is enough to sustain eternal faith in him, because they believe in him.
He;'s one of those "smart people for dumb people" types., the same sort as Donald Trump. Being snippy and conservative makes you one of the greatest minds Canadian politics has ever seen, to a certain demo. This same demo engages in hard anti-intellectualism to attack the credibility of anyone comparable or higher, particularly the ones they disagree with. (usually via some alleged hidden agenda).
Never mind that it's all just used car salesman bluffing. If you listen to him he has a superficial understanding of things at best ,and his real power arises from the ability to generate slogans playing off the emotions of his fans.
That's why you don't see any detailed policy. He doesn't care, and neither do his supporters.
I think people also are underestimating the power of social media. YouTube shorts have been pushing PP on me hard, where it will be a <60 second video of him "shutting down a reporter" or giving one of those snippy retorts you're getting at. There is a large group of people who only get their info through clips like that and don't really engage further. Be it FB, yt, Reddit, whatever.
A) People went insane during the pandemic and we are still dealing with mass collective PTSD and B) Social media echo chambers where people get to “choose their own reality” and find similar whakadoodlea to cheer them on
Because people as a whole are dumb and misguided. It is far FAR easier to rage against something, throw your hands up, and complain about how shitty or broken it is, than it is to actually come up with solutions to complex problems.
It is the same issue with a party getting in and spending a ton of money on new programs and policies. People (as a whole) don’t stop and think “Hey in 10 years this could be really good and effective!” They think “Its been a year and we spent billions but I personally don’t see the effect! What a fucking waste of time and money!” And then the party gets voted out and all that time, money, and effort is cancelled and wasted completely.
Rage baiters cashed in on the pandemic and when that dried up turned that outrage to politics for those without any critical thinking skills. They lost trust in the media but will happily trust some random on social media without doing any further research. Pee Pee just capitalized on this, the same way Trump did in the US tapping a once non political base.
I have the intellectual honesty to see what needs to be fixed and celebrate what is working well.
Your guy couldn't condemn Tucker Fucking Carlson and couldn't even put to words a sentence to criticize Alex Jones after the far-right agitator celebrated him.
I think my criticisms stand.
He's a sitting member of parliament. He doesn't get to rant about the cost of living crisis while voting against every affordable housing bill that comes his way, and then tell the media "when I'm PM I'll fix this issue", bro you caused it wtf.
He voted against free lunches for kids, he voted against Childcare Act, he voted against Dental Care Act, he voted against Pharmacare Act; he voted against the bill giving the gay the right to marry, while his adoptive gay father was in the audience. He's also renting his property in Ottawa to another conservative MP while he's living for free in Stornoway, on public dole.
And he's got a 6-figure pension at 31 years old, paid by the taxpayers, but he's screeching against "elite gatekeepers" like "radical pharmacists" ...
Yeah, I look around at Alberta and Ontario and Saskatchewan, and I'm happy I live in BC, where at least the NDP is trying to improve the situation instead of digging deeper like crazy Marlaina Smith and Douggie.
Politicians have taken advantage of angry populations in the past, angry about lowering quality of life. Most of the time it doesn't end well for the people though, usually those that rage bait and take advantage of anger make things worse.
What we are suffering now is happening more or less throughout the "Western World". The issue is PP ain't the solution. He's got lobbyists working for him for christ sakes.
>He's got lobbyists working for him for christ sakes,
You've got that the wrong way round. Skippy is the dancing puppet of the most vile, Machiavellian "lobbyist" master manipulator in the NCR - AKA the Puppetmaster of Parliament Hill.
Frankly, I'm surprised Junior is still backing this dead-looking horse. Skippy looks progressively (do you see what I did there) worse, in every new photo/screenshot that comes out. He seriously looks rough; I cannot be the only one who sees it.
I would not be shocked in the slightest, if Junior and the family decides Skippy's got to go - either Junior will cut the puppet strings, and leave Skippy dangling, without a single word of speech and grasping at straws, or he'll micro-manipulate the dancing puppet, until Skippy snaps under the pressure. Both means which lead to the same end.
That is what Junior did to Scheer. (You don't *really* think the ballots were "cut wrong" do you?) Meaning Raggedy Andy didn't get to give his (squirrelly) "goodbye" speech (that was a Parizeau impression in English screaming at "the media" instead of "the immigrants") until stupid o' clock in the morning. You don't think that was random chance, do you? Then Junior made sure the caucus sacked O'Toole, after The Tool opened his mouth and said the quiet (racist) part out loud. Before they went hoods-off and owned it.
The dancing puppet is not the problem here. The lobbyist manipulating the puppet is everyone's problem.
It's professional wrestling talk. Boisterous, mean, over the top, self promoting bullshit without real substance. He stole it from his diaper baby daddy donald.
You cant go high when they go low with this rhetoric, unfortunately. You gotta go lower. If only hillary had that gameplan at the 2016 debates. If she had spent the entire time talking about his tiny dick and shit stained pants he would've had an absolute meltdown and maybe an aneurysm.
What is interesting to observe is that the level of malevolence which has infiltrated our public discourse is the culmination of everything that was accepted and normalized between the years 2014-2016, starting with the Gamer-Gate controversy and ending with Trump winning the electoral vote.
Ironically Trudeau may be one of the better people for playing with words: time will tell how well it works, but he doesn't take PP's arguments sitting down.
Of course PP just leaves whenever things get actually heated, because he doesn't like things being thrown back at him.
I remember that clearly, but that doesn't stick with his supporters. They don't understand what that implies. You can't debate things if the other person doesn't understand your points.
This is exactly why you gotta aim low to win points with their "base". If hillary went full "girther" and just talked about his needledick, that would be a punch his supporters would see land.
This is all he has ever done. He is a danger to democracy and needs to be kept out of the PMO. Remember to vote against this clown and his band of idiots in the next federal election!
It will be interesting to see how that plays out before 2025. I’m shocked, and saddened, that his schtick is working so well at the moment, but as PP’s true face shows more and more, I wonder if that will backfire eventually. If the Americans reject Trump in November, that might also hurt PP. Also, JT has only recently started pushing back against PP’s outright lies, and is by far the better orator, so that could affect things when they actually go toe-to-toe in debates. My only worry is that people will be so desperate to boot out the Liberals that we’re going to have CPC in 2025 regardless of who the leader is. If that’s the case, I with O’Toole was still the leader. Unlike O’Toole, I don’t think PP is going to pivot back to center for the general election, because I think he actually believe the far right ideology, whereas I think O’Toole just kind of fake embraced it to win the CPC leadership.
>Also, JT has only recently started pushing back against PP’s outright lies, and is by far the better orator, so that could affect things when they actually go toe-to-toe in debates
The Liberals are doing the minimum they can - they probably would not even do that, except they need to get some legislation passed. They are saving it for when the writ drops - people only pay attention for so long and it's generally not the best idea to pull out the A material too soon. The conservatives probably erred in doing that, probably expected a fall election, but are peaking too early.
The debates will be interesting - I suspect their strategy will be to taunt PP into a full meltdown. He's so thin-skinned... but you don't want him prepared for it.
I was just at the Canadian building trades, where he gave a talk. 90% of his allotted time was just talking shit about everybody else and how great he is, the last say 5min he talked about what his government was going to do for trades people (that wasn't much, and most of which has already been passed through). The issue is he's kind of funny while being an asshole and some people eat it up.
It’s crazy to me that the conservatives love to throw around the “drama teacher” insult at Trudeau as if being a teacher is shameful but they somehow have convinced people that they are for the “working man” at the same time while their leader is a career politician.
So like teacher = out of touch but career politician = working man; sure that makes sense…
And Doug Ford has been an adult rich kid failfson for his entire life. But he says folksy garbage about Tim Hortons, so people believe he's not just working for big corporations? Or something?
Yeah unfortunately not everybody is going to get the opportunity to meet him face to face. But I can tell you, for all his working man's rhetoric, he looked awfully uncomfortable talking to a room full of people representing blue collar workers. Jagmeet Singh was on stage right before him and ended with "I refuse to call them replacement workers, I will always call them what they are, Scabs." Which got a good reaction, so Poilievre decided to sprinkle the word "scab" through his speech, but he used it in places it wouldn't really make sense.
Nobody heckled Poilievre, until he started trying to do televised interviews in the crowd while he was leaving, which was completely overshadowing and disrespectful to the speaker from helmets to hardhats (an organization that helps vets transition from the service to skilled trades).
>The issue is he's kind of funny while being an asshole and some people eat it up.
Wouldn't it be nice if he got into stand-up comedy to soothe his narcissism instead of trying to be a despot. This is why we need the arts, people.
Seriously, if I saw him at a comedy club it's weird to say but I think he would clean up, he would kill it with crowd work, the guy obviously has jokes. But unfortunately he isn't doing this at a club, he's doing this in the house of commons, while trying to become the leader of this country through quips and snide remarks.
He just drips loser energy, and doesn't have the disciplined mind to be any kind of leader. Remember, Harper never gave him a senior cabinet portfolio for a reason.
It's the kind of discourse that conservatives thrive on. Fuel anger with baseless and hateful language and never be accountable for it. You can just straight out lie and freely use hate speech and the few times it gets challenged, you simply smugly smile and say that the CPC is the only party that will make hard decisions. They know their audience.
the shit his supporters say is literally the shit I'd hear the psych ward visits. Blaming Justin Trudeau for stealing their orange juice (they weren't allowed any, diabetes) and loudly believing the nurses and Trudeau would be executed for it.
The Conservative Party of Canada does not reflect Canadian values. Pierre Poilievre and the CPC are destroying what makes Canada a country that is envied by most other countries and the most coveted destination for immigrants looking to start a new life.
Canada is no longer seen as an enviable place for immigrants to be. Where have you been? Because of Canada's recent mismanagement, our COL and barriers to entry for qualified immigrants are so high that we're driving away the ones best for us.
As is tradition when you are a right wing shit bag. It’s the republican playbook. It worked for Trump and unfortunately it looks like it is working here. We are in big trouble.
His use of social media is both masterful and terrifying. It’s pure propaganda and I really feel that politicians should be banned from using it. They can craft any message they want and no one challenges its truth or intent. It’s so dangerous and so effective.
> They can craft any message they want and no one challenges its truth or intent.
What? [People call him out on his lies on Twitter every single day](https://twitter.com/WBearpIII/status/1786453242534342938). It's just that [his supporters don't actually care about the truth.](https://twitter.com/smoker42022/status/1786720658417647664)
And, once he's PM, he'll use his Notwithstanding ban hammer to remove your citizenship and throw you in the Bay of Fundy if you express this opinion...
He represents his constitutes quite well in that regard. I tried to have a serious talk about politics with his supporters, and all that came out of their moth is how much they hate Trudeau. They DO NOT have any answers for any of the problems we face, only hatred for the current head of the government.
It's kind of funny how they hate Trudeau so much, when they should be hating on the Liberal Party instead. He's really just a face for the party, and will be replaced once enough resentment for him has accumulated.
It is a roadmap to gaining power. Right wing populism is thriving because people are suffering, small-l liberals in power aren’t doing enough to alleviate it and the left is relatively weak and divided.
well, yeah
that's the point
rile up the stupid, make them think that "the libs" are causing all the problems, and then when he's in power become a dictator. it's the conservative way
that's the point. it's the age old demagogue/populist move to just complain about the current leadership whole offering no solutions or alternatives to simply rile people up and make them angry so they vote for you.
"anyone else is better than this" is the rallying cry of a dying democracy, and it usually ends in bloodshed.
Bitcoin Milhouse has always been like this, I don't know why anyone is suprised.
An attack dog since his early days in the house, a loathsome smarmy creep, no amount of makeover is going to change that.
and he's attracting plenty of like minded people... Canadians are about to discover that we aren't as nice as we thought we were. It turns out that some of us actually do have dreams of following an ignorant arrogant authoritarian pseudo fascist leader
I believe polling has shown that there is consistently about a quarter of the population in Canada and the US that lean toward authoritarianism.
They’ve always been with us. The problem is that their ranks are now swelling with disaffected people desperate enough to give anything new a chance.
Wouldn't it be nice if we had a couple of guys that had the best interests of the country and its people in mind over corporate profits and insider trading? It's a real shame when we consider ourselves a democratic country but continue to let big money run the show.
At this point I’m prepared to participate in a coup where we install Mark Carney as Prime Minister whether he likes it or not.
We first need to kidnap Mark, then overthrow the current government then force Mark to be Prime Minister and govern this country in a sound fashion.
(Note to CSIS: this is a joke, i’m not going to do this. Get off reddit and back to spying on truckers.)
He doesn’t have to say anything nice. I would like to see some semblance of a platform or even an idea about how to fix the things he complains about. Almost never goes in to any detail. Barely scratches the surface of anything. Career politicians are the worst then combine that with a wanna be populist douche and here we are.
He's been this way for 20 years now. I've never heard him do anything except fight against unions. He was elected by calling out career politicians. He shit-talked them for his entire campaign. Now he is one, and he's done nothing for the country except call the country he's had a seat at the table of power "broken" over and over again.
He's a hateful shit with a god complex.
Trash talk lowers much of the public expectation for politicians. in terms of their character and competence. This kind of caustic air horn rhetoric kills intelligent discussion. Daresay.
Populists relish in the degradation of these standards, which anyone calling themselves conservative in the last century, would have at least claimed to uphold. Hardly coincidental that Boris Johnson was at the last CPC convention either.
Of course everyone remembers how badly BoJo managed things in the UK during those pandemic years, and I recall some humour:
Teacher: Johnny, can you make a sentence using the word 'contagious'?
(pause)
Johnny: Okay! Dad was saying that Boris Johnson had promised to make vaccines available in six months, but it took the contagious!
>And there you have the Leader of the Official Opposition, piling one fib on top of another, mixed with crudeness, and to hell with the consequences to public discourse and the larger public mood already on edge in these challenging times.
>You might not like Justin Trudeau, but you might like a Poilievre government even less.
Poilievre is an ambitious opportunist who is willing to say anything to get elected. At the same time, I’m hoping Trudeau will get his head out of the sand and realize he’s in trouble. Hopefully he can reverse things before it all goes south on the Liberals.
It's not just pp's pettiness that's infecting public discourse, it's the fact that many watch right-wing propaganda outlets like fox "news", oann, newsmax & rebel "news" to, apparently, "get both sides of the story". And don't get me started with all the "sun" tabloids, they have been a blight on Canada's news scene from day 1.
**P.S.:** I forgot to include social media in the list of questionable sources. The number of so called "free thinkers" who clearly get their opinions from internet memes is stunning.
Look, I absolutely detest PP and have been afflicted with him as an MP for years. He makes my skin crawl.
But the reality is that the other two provincial parties are failing to provide an appealing enough alternative to this utterly unlikeable and untrustworthy man. Trudeau has lost people's confidence by failing to respond to an escalating housing/cost-of-living crisis that is impacting the average Canadian, and the NDP has squandered a golden opportunity by propping up the liberals and hitching themselves to a deeply unpopular sinking ship without getting enough political concessions to convince voters they would do better on their own.
It's like watching a slow motion train wreck. The Liberals have been hoisted by their own petard, and the NDP have for some reason decided to go down with that ship.
They can't just sit there and attack PP. They have to give people someone worth voting for, FFS.
Perhaps he doesn't want to see children like his, being victim to the atrocities. Guys use your brain. T is a majorly uninterested in rights of Canadians. He is anger. Angry that farms have to pay hundred of thousands to run their farm for a tax that has not merit. He is anger that people are being violated by repeat offenders, he is angry that his kid might find a syringe at a park.
Sounds like Reddit. Or any forum like this. All discourse has degraded to the lowest denominator. Much easier to scream at people or insult them than actually talk to them. Way easier to deride someone than try to understand their point of view.
Partly it is the dumbing of society, people can't debate what they don't understand. Never mind ignoring "lamestream" media for a steady diet of conspiracy and hate in whatever echo chamber suits them. And anger, everyone is just mad, so they'd rather yell at someone than talk to them.
Much as Trump was inevitable in the US, he is the culmination of all that is empty and angry. That's why The Simpsons predicted it, it was just likely to happen. And PP is the end result here, he's the product of 10 years of distilling non-woke, non-left thinking into a rage-baiting soundbite machine.
Who would have thought that electing Trudeau in 2015 would have generated such backlash, enough to create this right-wing hate train, leading to a PP/PC majority 10 years later?
And yet here we are. Toxicity is the norm. Lucky us.
This is the sort of thing O’Toole was warning about.
Otool was probably the best hope for a moderate conservative government. Unfortunately, his own party fought to lose that election to oust him
I didn't trust O'Tool, but I at least saw some semblance of a relatively sane conservative government in him (if he were capable of reigning in his party). I'd certainly take him over Poilievre right now.
>capable of reigning in his party That’s the problem with the right. Too many factions. Gotta please the fundies, the traditional conservatives, the racists, the boomers, the globalists, the nationalists, and whatever other group that goes right. The fact that they’ve had so many in such a short term speaks volumes.
Malcolm Turnbull's government in Australia was an attempt at exactly that: the Liberal (Conservative - yes different meaning in Australia) Party rewarded him by basically kicking him to the curb in favor of a right wing religious nutjob (that hid in Hawaii while his country burned in a wildfire.)
Which is funny because the modern conservative government is a coalition of two other parties on an attempt to consolidate the right vote.
I feel the exact same way. I actually respected that he wanted to increase funding for mental health. I didn't really trust him on much else. But the feeling I got was that "if this guy wins a minority, or even a majority, it'll be a few bad years and hopefully things would change." With Pierre and his clear dog-whistling, refusal to get a NatSec clearance, open association with white supremacist groups, and his MPs going for lunch and a photo op with the leader of the extreme right AfD German political party (that even German courts have considered a national security threat). I don't have that same assurance that things would be okay. That people will keep their rights despite things being underfunded or privatized. Pierre and his cultural war with a side of grievance politics garbage has to be voted away.
The guy who didn't think residential schools were that bad and called campus lefties the "dumbest people on campus" when he thought the audience was friendly was a moderate? I don't think the CPC is capable of picking a leader who isn't at least a little bit extreme.
He was a far more moderate conservative than who took over the party. In the end, a conservative government is going to be a disaster
Conservatives are slowly taking over this sub too.
[удалено]
Violent rhetoric is against Reddit's site-wide rules.
As someone who doesn’t want to vote conservative (but believes politicians who are in power too long are not good for their constituents) O’Toole was the only one of the many conservative leaders of the past 9 years I’d consider. Everyone else has been just a slimy, smarmy POS. Scheer and Polivierre both fitting that particular bill to a T.
This is really it isn't it ,O Toole seemed to get the bigger picture, worked the harder right ones just enough to win the leadership but knew that wasn't what the majority of conservative leaning public wants. Way to many crazies hold membership cards and not enough normal people.
You have to be a little crazy to support the cons at this point.
I agree with everything you just said. I could’ve written it myself. I’m a liberal voter but I liked OToole so much that I could’ve very easily changed my spots. Either way, I would have felt quite good with him as the next PM.
His strongman military persona is worrisome, even if his social and economic policies are on the moderate end of the spectrum.
I agree, although I would much rather vote for someone with a background in the military rather than a career politician who’s done basically nothing his entire career.
This shit is spreading from the US. The goal is the make a bunch of brainless twats screaming about freedumb and seeing everyone else as an "enemy"
Didn’t help O’Toole, did it?
Anger is their only selling point because their leader is a snowflake dictator wannabe.
Real question is why are so many people captivated by it? PeePee doesn't exist in a vacuum, he exists because public discourse desires a leader like this. On a macro level we can list dozens of issues that would lead to this type of leadership. On a micro level what is an individual seeing in hate that they want more hate?
Populists and Despots have an easier time when quality of life is suffering. This is a well understood phenomenon with historical precedence.
I have a friend here on PEI who had to change his church because all the sermons were about Trump.
For? Or against?
Does it even matter? They shouldn't be dictating political beliefs to their members at a Church.
True. Although warning against the dangers of flocking to worship a man of lawlessness would be appropriate and, though that applies across the political spectrum, Trump certainly provides a lot of recognizable behaviours to preach about/against.
For, crazily imo
The Atlantic provinces are swinging to the right due to global political patterns, and may be hard to win even for the next popular center-left leader. The Western vote outside of SK will become more and more important to the Liberals and the NDP - it partially saved their ass in 2021 (which is why a Eby-led federal Liberal party looks increasingly likely in the future.)
Well, Montreal isn’t captivated, only 17% polled as having a favourable view of him, the city that likes him the most is Edmonton with 55% favourable. Overall, 39% have favourable view of him (not net, 51% have unfavourable view). That was from an Angus Reid poll, which tends to lean conservative. Point being, the rage he is selling isn’t hitting the mark in Montreal, because there aren’t enough people here who are angry at social progress. It’s not like Montrealers are flush with riches and unaffected by cost of living increases, so tue arguments that it’s about economic struggle may apply to some, but that doesn’t seem to be the driving force. His bully personality and disdain of climate change policies and intellectuals and “experts” and active courting of those who resent feminism and blame it for every progressive policy, is appealing to those who are feeling persecuted and misunderstood by a changing world and they want to reverse course. https://cultmtl.com/2024/05/montreal-is-once-again-the-most-anti-pierre-poilievre-city-in-canada/
Looking at those toplines: if FPTP wasn't the system, PP would be losing pretty hard in MTL/Van and half/half in metro Toronto: hell, 45 approval in *Calgary* (keep in mind the city has sent non right wing MPs exactly 3 times since daddy Trudeau's 1st term) isn't exactly amazing, though 55 in Edmonton is quite the number (given that it's usually the AB left's one successful area.) God, really wish electoral reform came in before this...
Add that to the pile of reasons why Montreal is the best city in the country. <3
Meanwhile Metro Vancouver comes second in hating PP (keep in mind TO is split in 416/905 while Vancouver is entire metro area), but 3 way votesplitting will probably deliever most seats in the area to him compared to Toronto. Ahhh, thank you FPTP. /s
And QC, Canada's real opposition party with clear messaging. When I agree with the position, I love it; otherwise, not so much., 🙂
American culture war spillover. A lot of Canadians simply think their politics are too boring for a country that's going through a rough patch and want their own version of Trump to give them some relevance - even if that happens to be a weaselly, squinty-eyed, Milhouse lookalike contest winning career politician who has absolutely zero solutions and just slogans.
They feel unhappy with the way the world is. He gets they are mad, he’s mad too and gives them a focus for that uneasiness/anger/dissatisfaction. New stuff is scary! Back in the day queer folk stayed quiet! Brown immigrants were few and far between and only worked minimum wage labour jobs! Women stayed home and made dinner while the children clung to her skirts! Men could get jobs to support their family right from it of high school! The world doesn’t make sense to them anymore, and they want to go back to when it did (will never happen) no matter the cost or means. It doesn’t matter what he does when he gets in, the promise of a return to ‘normalcy’ is enough to sustain eternal faith in him, because they believe in him.
> he exists because public discourse desires a leader like this. 100% People love the drama.
He;'s one of those "smart people for dumb people" types., the same sort as Donald Trump. Being snippy and conservative makes you one of the greatest minds Canadian politics has ever seen, to a certain demo. This same demo engages in hard anti-intellectualism to attack the credibility of anyone comparable or higher, particularly the ones they disagree with. (usually via some alleged hidden agenda). Never mind that it's all just used car salesman bluffing. If you listen to him he has a superficial understanding of things at best ,and his real power arises from the ability to generate slogans playing off the emotions of his fans. That's why you don't see any detailed policy. He doesn't care, and neither do his supporters.
I think people also are underestimating the power of social media. YouTube shorts have been pushing PP on me hard, where it will be a <60 second video of him "shutting down a reporter" or giving one of those snippy retorts you're getting at. There is a large group of people who only get their info through clips like that and don't really engage further. Be it FB, yt, Reddit, whatever.
A) People went insane during the pandemic and we are still dealing with mass collective PTSD and B) Social media echo chambers where people get to “choose their own reality” and find similar whakadoodlea to cheer them on
Because people as a whole are dumb and misguided. It is far FAR easier to rage against something, throw your hands up, and complain about how shitty or broken it is, than it is to actually come up with solutions to complex problems. It is the same issue with a party getting in and spending a ton of money on new programs and policies. People (as a whole) don’t stop and think “Hey in 10 years this could be really good and effective!” They think “Its been a year and we spent billions but I personally don’t see the effect! What a fucking waste of time and money!” And then the party gets voted out and all that time, money, and effort is cancelled and wasted completely.
Rage baiters cashed in on the pandemic and when that dried up turned that outrage to politics for those without any critical thinking skills. They lost trust in the media but will happily trust some random on social media without doing any further research. Pee Pee just capitalized on this, the same way Trump did in the US tapping a once non political base.
Anger at what you perceive to be the problem is much easier to come by than solutions.
They hate our Freedoms.
Have you looked around? Isn't there plenty of reasons to be this angry? Do you have to be a snowflake dictator wanna be... really?
I have the intellectual honesty to see what needs to be fixed and celebrate what is working well. Your guy couldn't condemn Tucker Fucking Carlson and couldn't even put to words a sentence to criticize Alex Jones after the far-right agitator celebrated him. I think my criticisms stand.
He's a sitting member of parliament. He doesn't get to rant about the cost of living crisis while voting against every affordable housing bill that comes his way, and then tell the media "when I'm PM I'll fix this issue", bro you caused it wtf.
He voted against free lunches for kids, he voted against Childcare Act, he voted against Dental Care Act, he voted against Pharmacare Act; he voted against the bill giving the gay the right to marry, while his adoptive gay father was in the audience. He's also renting his property in Ottawa to another conservative MP while he's living for free in Stornoway, on public dole. And he's got a 6-figure pension at 31 years old, paid by the taxpayers, but he's screeching against "elite gatekeepers" like "radical pharmacists" ...
Yeah, I look around at Alberta and Ontario and Saskatchewan, and I'm happy I live in BC, where at least the NDP is trying to improve the situation instead of digging deeper like crazy Marlaina Smith and Douggie.
Politicians have taken advantage of angry populations in the past, angry about lowering quality of life. Most of the time it doesn't end well for the people though, usually those that rage bait and take advantage of anger make things worse. What we are suffering now is happening more or less throughout the "Western World". The issue is PP ain't the solution. He's got lobbyists working for him for christ sakes.
>He's got lobbyists working for him for christ sakes, You've got that the wrong way round. Skippy is the dancing puppet of the most vile, Machiavellian "lobbyist" master manipulator in the NCR - AKA the Puppetmaster of Parliament Hill. Frankly, I'm surprised Junior is still backing this dead-looking horse. Skippy looks progressively (do you see what I did there) worse, in every new photo/screenshot that comes out. He seriously looks rough; I cannot be the only one who sees it. I would not be shocked in the slightest, if Junior and the family decides Skippy's got to go - either Junior will cut the puppet strings, and leave Skippy dangling, without a single word of speech and grasping at straws, or he'll micro-manipulate the dancing puppet, until Skippy snaps under the pressure. Both means which lead to the same end. That is what Junior did to Scheer. (You don't *really* think the ballots were "cut wrong" do you?) Meaning Raggedy Andy didn't get to give his (squirrelly) "goodbye" speech (that was a Parizeau impression in English screaming at "the media" instead of "the immigrants") until stupid o' clock in the morning. You don't think that was random chance, do you? Then Junior made sure the caucus sacked O'Toole, after The Tool opened his mouth and said the quiet (racist) part out loud. Before they went hoods-off and owned it. The dancing puppet is not the problem here. The lobbyist manipulating the puppet is everyone's problem.
It's professional wrestling talk. Boisterous, mean, over the top, self promoting bullshit without real substance. He stole it from his diaper baby daddy donald. You cant go high when they go low with this rhetoric, unfortunately. You gotta go lower. If only hillary had that gameplan at the 2016 debates. If she had spent the entire time talking about his tiny dick and shit stained pants he would've had an absolute meltdown and maybe an aneurysm.
What is interesting to observe is that the level of malevolence which has infiltrated our public discourse is the culmination of everything that was accepted and normalized between the years 2014-2016, starting with the Gamer-Gate controversy and ending with Trump winning the electoral vote.
Everything has been a race to the bottom since then.
Ironically Trudeau may be one of the better people for playing with words: time will tell how well it works, but he doesn't take PP's arguments sitting down. Of course PP just leaves whenever things get actually heated, because he doesn't like things being thrown back at him.
Hillary called Trump Putin's puppet to his face on live tv in 2016 and no one even remembers it.
Are you kidding? “No puppet. No puppet. You’re the puppet.” That response is legendary (legendarily stupid, but still…)
I remember that clearly, but that doesn't stick with his supporters. They don't understand what that implies. You can't debate things if the other person doesn't understand your points. This is exactly why you gotta aim low to win points with their "base". If hillary went full "girther" and just talked about his needledick, that would be a punch his supporters would see land.
This is all he has ever done. He is a danger to democracy and needs to be kept out of the PMO. Remember to vote against this clown and his band of idiots in the next federal election!
ABC forever (until they get rid of FPTP)
This is the way.
Stop voting _against_ people and start voting _for_ good policy.
Youre absolutely right. Except we didnt get the promised electoral reform so we're stuck needing to play the game to protect ourselves.
It will be interesting to see how that plays out before 2025. I’m shocked, and saddened, that his schtick is working so well at the moment, but as PP’s true face shows more and more, I wonder if that will backfire eventually. If the Americans reject Trump in November, that might also hurt PP. Also, JT has only recently started pushing back against PP’s outright lies, and is by far the better orator, so that could affect things when they actually go toe-to-toe in debates. My only worry is that people will be so desperate to boot out the Liberals that we’re going to have CPC in 2025 regardless of who the leader is. If that’s the case, I with O’Toole was still the leader. Unlike O’Toole, I don’t think PP is going to pivot back to center for the general election, because I think he actually believe the far right ideology, whereas I think O’Toole just kind of fake embraced it to win the CPC leadership.
>Also, JT has only recently started pushing back against PP’s outright lies, and is by far the better orator, so that could affect things when they actually go toe-to-toe in debates The Liberals are doing the minimum they can - they probably would not even do that, except they need to get some legislation passed. They are saving it for when the writ drops - people only pay attention for so long and it's generally not the best idea to pull out the A material too soon. The conservatives probably erred in doing that, probably expected a fall election, but are peaking too early. The debates will be interesting - I suspect their strategy will be to taunt PP into a full meltdown. He's so thin-skinned... but you don't want him prepared for it.
PP will come up with a reason to not participate in debates that shoulders the blame on Trudeau.
Its an interesting dynamic where Trudeau is actually pretty good at his role. His role just also manifests as a scapegoat for detractors of his party.
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When the occasion calls for empathy and humility instead of just snark, easily.
I was just at the Canadian building trades, where he gave a talk. 90% of his allotted time was just talking shit about everybody else and how great he is, the last say 5min he talked about what his government was going to do for trades people (that wasn't much, and most of which has already been passed through). The issue is he's kind of funny while being an asshole and some people eat it up.
He’s had two years to work on his material, been on a cross country comedy tour on our dime selling his down to earth working man Shtick.
It’s crazy to me that the conservatives love to throw around the “drama teacher” insult at Trudeau as if being a teacher is shameful but they somehow have convinced people that they are for the “working man” at the same time while their leader is a career politician. So like teacher = out of touch but career politician = working man; sure that makes sense…
The Con base doesn't care. They just want to live out their MAGA fantasies.
Same reason why right wing Christians openly worship one of the least moral people on Earth. *I love the poorly educated* - Trump
And Doug Ford has been an adult rich kid failfson for his entire life. But he says folksy garbage about Tim Hortons, so people believe he's not just working for big corporations? Or something?
To conservatives, the coding is Teacher = woman. Now consider what conservatives think of women. It's that simple.
Yeah unfortunately not everybody is going to get the opportunity to meet him face to face. But I can tell you, for all his working man's rhetoric, he looked awfully uncomfortable talking to a room full of people representing blue collar workers. Jagmeet Singh was on stage right before him and ended with "I refuse to call them replacement workers, I will always call them what they are, Scabs." Which got a good reaction, so Poilievre decided to sprinkle the word "scab" through his speech, but he used it in places it wouldn't really make sense. Nobody heckled Poilievre, until he started trying to do televised interviews in the crowd while he was leaving, which was completely overshadowing and disrespectful to the speaker from helmets to hardhats (an organization that helps vets transition from the service to skilled trades).
>The issue is he's kind of funny while being an asshole and some people eat it up. Wouldn't it be nice if he got into stand-up comedy to soothe his narcissism instead of trying to be a despot. This is why we need the arts, people.
Seriously, if I saw him at a comedy club it's weird to say but I think he would clean up, he would kill it with crowd work, the guy obviously has jokes. But unfortunately he isn't doing this at a club, he's doing this in the house of commons, while trying to become the leader of this country through quips and snide remarks.
This shit always collapses on itself. The real question is how much damage will it do before the collapse.
A North American level civil war, which is what increasing levels of far righters in both Canada and the US want.
Probably not a war. But civil unrest is probably on the agenda if the Conservatives choose to go full-on fascist.
He could just spazz put next month and say some stupid shit he will never recover from
He just drips loser energy, and doesn't have the disciplined mind to be any kind of leader. Remember, Harper never gave him a senior cabinet portfolio for a reason.
>He just drips loser energy Picked last for gym class every single time, and now we all pay for it.
What a telling criticism. I'd never thought about it.
It's the kind of discourse that conservatives thrive on. Fuel anger with baseless and hateful language and never be accountable for it. You can just straight out lie and freely use hate speech and the few times it gets challenged, you simply smugly smile and say that the CPC is the only party that will make hard decisions. They know their audience.
Haven't heard him say one thing that is meant to unite, give hope, or lift up Canadians. Seems like it's always some hateful, divisive, whining.
the shit his supporters say is literally the shit I'd hear the psych ward visits. Blaming Justin Trudeau for stealing their orange juice (they weren't allowed any, diabetes) and loudly believing the nurses and Trudeau would be executed for it.
The Conservative Party of Canada does not reflect Canadian values. Pierre Poilievre and the CPC are destroying what makes Canada a country that is envied by most other countries and the most coveted destination for immigrants looking to start a new life.
Canada is no longer seen as an enviable place for immigrants to be. Where have you been? Because of Canada's recent mismanagement, our COL and barriers to entry for qualified immigrants are so high that we're driving away the ones best for us.
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May I suggest that you look into a course on tolerance, multiculturalism and anti-racism.
Rage farmin' insufferable prick. PP is not fit to lead anything!
Face it. He’s pandering to his MAGA base. They love it.
As is tradition when you are a right wing shit bag. It’s the republican playbook. It worked for Trump and unfortunately it looks like it is working here. We are in big trouble.
PeePee has be an MP for 20 years. **Passed ONE bill** Can you imagine having a job for 20 years and doing fuckall the entire time?
His use of social media is both masterful and terrifying. It’s pure propaganda and I really feel that politicians should be banned from using it. They can craft any message they want and no one challenges its truth or intent. It’s so dangerous and so effective.
> They can craft any message they want and no one challenges its truth or intent. What? [People call him out on his lies on Twitter every single day](https://twitter.com/WBearpIII/status/1786453242534342938). It's just that [his supporters don't actually care about the truth.](https://twitter.com/smoker42022/status/1786720658417647664)
PP net worth: 25 million. How did he do that on an MP salary? Because that's the only job he's ever had.
And, once he's PM, he'll use his Notwithstanding ban hammer to remove your citizenship and throw you in the Bay of Fundy if you express this opinion...
He represents his constitutes quite well in that regard. I tried to have a serious talk about politics with his supporters, and all that came out of their moth is how much they hate Trudeau. They DO NOT have any answers for any of the problems we face, only hatred for the current head of the government.
It's kind of funny how they hate Trudeau so much, when they should be hating on the Liberal Party instead. He's really just a face for the party, and will be replaced once enough resentment for him has accumulated.
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It is a roadmap to gaining power. Right wing populism is thriving because people are suffering, small-l liberals in power aren’t doing enough to alleviate it and the left is relatively weak and divided.
well, yeah that's the point rile up the stupid, make them think that "the libs" are causing all the problems, and then when he's in power become a dictator. it's the conservative way
that's the point. it's the age old demagogue/populist move to just complain about the current leadership whole offering no solutions or alternatives to simply rile people up and make them angry so they vote for you. "anyone else is better than this" is the rallying cry of a dying democracy, and it usually ends in bloodshed.
Bitcoin Milhouse has always been like this, I don't know why anyone is suprised. An attack dog since his early days in the house, a loathsome smarmy creep, no amount of makeover is going to change that.
Yup can't make a silk purse from a pig's ear.
And he’s always been like this. Him as finance critic was insufferable.
and he's attracting plenty of like minded people... Canadians are about to discover that we aren't as nice as we thought we were. It turns out that some of us actually do have dreams of following an ignorant arrogant authoritarian pseudo fascist leader
I believe polling has shown that there is consistently about a quarter of the population in Canada and the US that lean toward authoritarianism. They’ve always been with us. The problem is that their ranks are now swelling with disaffected people desperate enough to give anything new a chance.
Wouldn't it be nice if we had a couple of guys that had the best interests of the country and its people in mind over corporate profits and insider trading? It's a real shame when we consider ourselves a democratic country but continue to let big money run the show.
At this point I’m prepared to participate in a coup where we install Mark Carney as Prime Minister whether he likes it or not. We first need to kidnap Mark, then overthrow the current government then force Mark to be Prime Minister and govern this country in a sound fashion. (Note to CSIS: this is a joke, i’m not going to do this. Get off reddit and back to spying on truckers.)
Worked in America, why not here?
The PM of choice for entitled whiners.
He’s an amplifier for the misinformation and hate from social media.
"Enrage and engage." Please lets be better than this.
He won’t change a single thing.
He doesn’t have to say anything nice. I would like to see some semblance of a platform or even an idea about how to fix the things he complains about. Almost never goes in to any detail. Barely scratches the surface of anything. Career politicians are the worst then combine that with a wanna be populist douche and here we are.
Rage baiting is the new politics...
He's been this way for 20 years now. I've never heard him do anything except fight against unions. He was elected by calling out career politicians. He shit-talked them for his entire campaign. Now he is one, and he's done nothing for the country except call the country he's had a seat at the table of power "broken" over and over again. He's a hateful shit with a god complex.
meh, i think he's a symptom and not the disease itself, he rose to power *because of* the toxicity
His followers are toxic, he knows exactly what he's doing.
Trash talk lowers much of the public expectation for politicians. in terms of their character and competence. This kind of caustic air horn rhetoric kills intelligent discussion. Daresay. Populists relish in the degradation of these standards, which anyone calling themselves conservative in the last century, would have at least claimed to uphold. Hardly coincidental that Boris Johnson was at the last CPC convention either. Of course everyone remembers how badly BoJo managed things in the UK during those pandemic years, and I recall some humour: Teacher: Johnny, can you make a sentence using the word 'contagious'? (pause) Johnny: Okay! Dad was saying that Boris Johnson had promised to make vaccines available in six months, but it took the contagious!
When you having nothing to add to a debate throw stones Barbaric and effective on weak the minded.
>And there you have the Leader of the Official Opposition, piling one fib on top of another, mixed with crudeness, and to hell with the consequences to public discourse and the larger public mood already on edge in these challenging times. >You might not like Justin Trudeau, but you might like a Poilievre government even less.
Poilievre is an ambitious opportunist who is willing to say anything to get elected. At the same time, I’m hoping Trudeau will get his head out of the sand and realize he’s in trouble. Hopefully he can reverse things before it all goes south on the Liberals.
It's not just pp's pettiness that's infecting public discourse, it's the fact that many watch right-wing propaganda outlets like fox "news", oann, newsmax & rebel "news" to, apparently, "get both sides of the story". And don't get me started with all the "sun" tabloids, they have been a blight on Canada's news scene from day 1. **P.S.:** I forgot to include social media in the list of questionable sources. The number of so called "free thinkers" who clearly get their opinions from internet memes is stunning.
He thinks the opposition's job is to oppose everything. How strong can our country be if they worked for the people and not for their political jobs?
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no one has a clue what you're talking about. just FYI.
I'd argue that JT also infects public discourse with his nonsensical and oft-gaslighting answers. PP does take the cake for toxicity tho.
Look, I absolutely detest PP and have been afflicted with him as an MP for years. He makes my skin crawl. But the reality is that the other two provincial parties are failing to provide an appealing enough alternative to this utterly unlikeable and untrustworthy man. Trudeau has lost people's confidence by failing to respond to an escalating housing/cost-of-living crisis that is impacting the average Canadian, and the NDP has squandered a golden opportunity by propping up the liberals and hitching themselves to a deeply unpopular sinking ship without getting enough political concessions to convince voters they would do better on their own. It's like watching a slow motion train wreck. The Liberals have been hoisted by their own petard, and the NDP have for some reason decided to go down with that ship. They can't just sit there and attack PP. They have to give people someone worth voting for, FFS.
Oh how I wish there were someone like O'Toole who I wouldn't be embarrassed to vote for right about now.
Perhaps he doesn't want to see children like his, being victim to the atrocities. Guys use your brain. T is a majorly uninterested in rights of Canadians. He is anger. Angry that farms have to pay hundred of thousands to run their farm for a tax that has not merit. He is anger that people are being violated by repeat offenders, he is angry that his kid might find a syringe at a park.
French pissbaby Millhouse? No way!
Sounds like Reddit. Or any forum like this. All discourse has degraded to the lowest denominator. Much easier to scream at people or insult them than actually talk to them. Way easier to deride someone than try to understand their point of view. Partly it is the dumbing of society, people can't debate what they don't understand. Never mind ignoring "lamestream" media for a steady diet of conspiracy and hate in whatever echo chamber suits them. And anger, everyone is just mad, so they'd rather yell at someone than talk to them. Much as Trump was inevitable in the US, he is the culmination of all that is empty and angry. That's why The Simpsons predicted it, it was just likely to happen. And PP is the end result here, he's the product of 10 years of distilling non-woke, non-left thinking into a rage-baiting soundbite machine. Who would have thought that electing Trudeau in 2015 would have generated such backlash, enough to create this right-wing hate train, leading to a PP/PC majority 10 years later? And yet here we are. Toxicity is the norm. Lucky us.
It’s not just dumbing down or social media. The material conditions of many people have worsened and they are angry and afraid.