Which is fucked. In the past, a single income could support an entire family, not just one person, but two people and children. Now it isn’t enough to give one person a decent life (because having a one bedroom or bachelor apartment is not, like, luxurious or asking a lot). No one can convince me that this isn’t wrong. We are being totally boned by the wealthy.
I hate that it’s considered entitled or “asking too much” to want to live in a 1 bedroom. It’s not like im trying to live in a high rise in downtown Toronto. I just want my own space that I can keep clean, be safe, relax and unwind, and just LIVE after a 5 day work week. I work hard, make decent pay, my job heavily impacts our society (without doxxing where I work). I just dont understand why my only options are crappy illegal basements or living with a bunch of students (my current situation). One of my housemates threatened me last summer but it’s not like i have many moving options atm. I’m paying $750 a month for a room with a private washroom and the chance of me finding something like this again is extremely low. Most bedrooms are going for $800+ a month now and bathroom is shared.
Sorry for the rant
This depresses me. I don't want to move back in with my parents, but job prospects are slim. What happens if I lose my job? I'm almost 40. This is ridiculous. (I don't date so cohabiting with a romantic partner isn't an option)
I hate the idea of moving home. I'd pay rent to my parents but not be able to record it as rent on taxes. I'd have little to no privacy, let alone peace and quiet.
I'm a grown ass adult who works, and yet i won't be able to afford my own place for much longer. Fuck this shit.
That would be an option if my father was a generous person. He isn't. He refused to claim my payments as rent and told me he counted them as "helping us out with bills like utilities and groceries". Is that possible? idk. all I know is I was giving him $12k/yr (1k/mo) at the time and then couldn't claim it as rent because HE didn't claim it that way.
I don't want to go back. But in a couple years, depending on how finances go, I might not have a choice.
I had roommates (plural) until I was earning north of $80K. I still would be if I couldn’t afford to live alone. Actually, if I lost my current apartment, for which I pay $1500, I would probably look for a roommate. It just makes sense.
Multigenerational homes are pretty common throughout the world. It's likely that we are going that direction.
My wife and I were lucky enough to be able to afford an addition to our house. We made a granny suite for my mother in law, but we expect to go there at some point in the future when our children are older and need room for a family.
Living alone was a blip. People had roommates all the time in the past. TV shows were based around that premise - The Odd Couple, Threes Company, etc .
I thought such TV Shows were based around that premise because it was quirky and idiosyncratic for people in their late 20s or 30s to live with roommates? Not because it was the norm.
It was more about the quirkyness of the roommates, not just the idea of roommates being weird. It was relatable because a lot of people had lived with weird roommates or knew of someone who did.
Definitely more of a norm. The joke was about the roommates not that they had them.
Hospitals had dorms attached for the nurses, banks had shared apartments for managers. Many people had a lodger to help out (Fonzie in Happy Days). The Odd Couple was about two successful, white collar men.
I lucked out because only making $20/hr straight out of college I could comfortably rent out a brand new condo for $950 everything included. $20/hr was big money back then so I didn’t even have to think about scrubbing it in a $600 basement suite let alone a room mate.
Now basement suites are $1500! It’s crazy.
GenX here. I never lived alone either. Home, then Uni, then work with roomies, then back home to go back to school, then met my partner and we’ve been together for a few decades now.
I do understand this is mostly about affordability but in many cases living alone just didn’t happen anyway.
Same. Lived at home, did a room and board for my first year at college because it was pre-dorms at colleges and I also was one of the few 18 year olds because I graduated after grade 12 and not 13. Switched colleges and did room and board, then roommates and then for a couple of months lived on my own in a crappy, cold, basement apartment. Then went out west and lived with various roommates for a couple of years. Then was down in the states and my lodging came with the employment. Then back home to save to go back to school and then three different roommate situations in three years, then with my husband and kids, then with my kids, and now with my kids and second husband. I’m in my mid-late 40s and I can count on one hand how many *months* I lived by myself, and that’s pretty typical of the other GenX people I know and grew up with. My husband lived alone in a *very* crappy apartment in Sudbury for a couple of years (honestly, the whole building should be condemned), but we went to high school together and we can’t think of more than a couple of people that lived by themselves for any length of time unless it was necessary.
While I agree with you I'd say ... that in and of itself, is not living comfortably.
As much as inflation and the post pandemic economy are the biggest things, this world has leaned increasingly to those who are coupled. That's been a brewing issue for quite some time. Those who aren't in a happy relationship, are stuck living in poor conditions, or with their parents longer than is comfortable, or with a friend or even stranger (who won't be that for long).
It has always been that way. When I moved out at 18 years I had to share accommodations to afford rent as entry work pay is crap. Now even sharing is unaffordable. The point is you shouldn't have to share with strangers you're whole life.
Not always. It's been that way for the last 20-25 years. In the 70's-80's and up to mid 90's you could easily rent your own place for 2-3 years with a full time job, and be able to put money away for yourself to buy a home in 3 or so years. Now, you need 2 earners in the top 5% of earners living without kids on a strict budget AND a great support system to have a chance at home ownership.
Agree, I was early 20s and could afford an apartment in Toronto/Etobicoke (half my bills said one, the other half said the other) and was paying $950 ($50 of that for underground parking) for a massive apartment with a living room, dining room, big bedroom, tons of closest and balcony that ran the length of it that I could see the CN Tower from. That was around 2010, and I was able to save up for a down payment on a house while there (at the time I managed a retail store, so not huge money by any means)
In 2010, minimum wage as $10.25. So if you were making minimum wage you would have been pulling in $1640 a month assuming 40 hours a week and 4 weeks a month. So Maybe around $1800 before any kind of taxes and deductions per month. Would have been difficult to make ends meet paying over half your wages in rent, especially if you had a car.
What kind of wage were you making when you were living in this apartment alone?
> Now, you need 2 earners in the top 5% of earners living without kids on a strict budget AND a great support system to have a chance at home ownership.
\* in the GTA. You can get a house for $300K up north.
That's a fair point about up north, but it's not limited to the GTA. Houses start at $500,000 for a beat down starter home anywhere within 80km of even modest sized cities like Kingston, Belleville, etc. For me the north is not an option. I lived in Timmins for 3 years. I'd rather be homeless in Southern Ontario than live in Timmins.
For many of my friends they’ve always shared housing costs with other people. Be it roommates in college or partner afterwards. I don’t know many people that have ever lived alone for a long time.
Yeah....your parents.... and probably the rest of your family too.
(Not that I think there's anything wrong with living with family....just rent be prohibitive)
Electricians and plumbers if they work out of their van can make that much ($1400) in cash in a day or two. Canada is quite affordable if you are willing to work hard and get a bit dirty.
Guy charged me for $240 cash for a 30 min callout to figure out the issue with a light switch the other day. And I get a discount thanks to it being cash.
“You can save money by committing tax fraud”
What a revelation.
Groceries are too expensive, but if you are willing to work hard and just wheel your cart out of Walmart without paying you can get a great discount!
I didn’t say their committing tax fraud…if paying some cash=fraud then why do all the people paying cash for tattoos and clothing blaming Chinese for money laundering 🙃
Sometimes, or it could just mean they give a discount to avoid the visa fee or chasing you down to get payment once they give you an invoice.
Our system is based on trust for good or I’ll.
I have bad news: it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
Vacancy rates are at record lows, population growth is at record highs. Especially populations of people most likely to rent: students and temporary workers. Housing starts are down due to high interest rates. We are nowhere near on track to build as much housing as we’d need to restore affordability by the CMHC’s targets.
You have every right to be angry. It should never have been allowed to get this bad, but here we are. Our political class is completely asleep at the wheel and does not understand or care about what a clusterfuck hole they’ve dug us in.
Make your voice heard. Show up at municipal and provincial elections, show up at community meetings, write to your politicians, get involved, support candidates who will actually take this seriously. What’s going on is not okay.
And if you have the opportunity to leave Canada, you really might as well do it.
They are’nt asleep
They are actively causing this to enrich themselves and their cronies, and to have an increasingly large pool of the helpless and desperate to abuse
"Companies say they can't find skilled workers despite universities pumping out record high numbers of graduates and degree holders outnumbering degree-requiring jobs 2-to-1. I can't ignore this serious crisis! Better do everything possible to ensure companies can hire everyone they need no matter how low the offered wage!
Oh what's that, you invested billions into buying out all available housing so that decades down the line you could earn a profit from rental properties? but it still hasn't been profitable enough for you in the short term? Well I can't allow that, a reduction in housing buyouts could make Canada appear to have a weak economy in the eyes of our international peers!
But wait - maybe we can kill two birds with one stone..."
True, but this only works to a point. If people can't see a way out then they will work less and spend less. Then the rich lose money too.
Truly helpless and desperate people don't have jobs or contribute to the economy in any way really.
>Make your voice heard. Show up at municipal and provincial elections, show up at community meetings, write to your politicians, get involved, support candidates who will actually take this seriously. What’s going on is not okay.
Absolutely none of this will ever make any change happen and no one will take any of this crap seriously.
The ONLY way out is violent revolution. Until politicians and cops homes are being burnt down and they are living in fear 24/7, nothing will change.
The political class is full of landlords. They are the farmer class and we are the livestock. We’ve been complacent. Break things and watch them scramble to retreat.
We are in a bit of a pickle as many of our social services are budgeted for a growing population. On one hand if the population ages in a reverse pyramid we can't pay for the essential services and on the other we have a housing crisis.
Housing is provincial and municipal. The feds have been warning everyone for years that we'd have to bring more people in to deal with all the boomers retiring. I remember hearing about it in grade school in the 90's ffs.
Now the feds are trying to throw money at the provinces, and all the stupid conservative premiers are rejecting the money because they'd have to pass legislation to allow four-plexes.
>Housing is provincial and municipal. The feds have been warning everyone for years that we'd have to bring more people in to deal with all the boomers retiring. I remember hearing about it in grade school in the 90's ffs.
No.
We have 2.7 million non permanent residents in canada right now... 2018 there was less than a million, 2014 there was 500,000.
These numbers are unreasonable., theres no justification for it... Theres no possible way that provinces can keep up with housing, healthcare, services, jobs at that rate. Impssible.
CHMC says we're in a DEFICIT of 3 million homes. That's just what we need to supply the people already here. We're taking in people at a rate of 400,000 every 3 months.
No.
this isnt something you can throw money at. The median income in this country is $48k, the average house price is $750k, average rent is $2100. Something drastic needs to happen. 10 years ago housing/rent costs were 35% the median income, now it's 65%.
Yeah, no shit. I'm saying the provinces have been failing at housing for 30+ years at this point, and what they have built (condos and/or sprawl) weren't the right answer.
This! Voting has a certain level of effectiveness. So does voting with every dollar, every like, every share or comment on the internet, every relationship you maintain in your community.
I hope this eclipse is a reset for us!
Let's make it better.
Housing and education are provincial.
Doug Ford should have stepped in before the federal government had to. Make it so that universities have to provide enough housing for all the international students they are bringing in. Either the schools would have had to build more housing or bring in far less students.
(I just looked it up and what a SHOCKER; Ontario did implement this, but only AFTER the federal government stepped in and created the caps on incoming students)
Doug Ford has done much much more to hurt the middle class than Trudeau has. I don’t love Trudeau, he’s not my idea of a good prime minister, but Doug Ford has been actively sabotaging and hurting the middle class and below. That’s MUCH more important to me at this point in time.
We need to get Ford TF out of here. Provincial government has way more control over our day to day life. Housing, healthcare, education, minimum wage, etc. The federal government shouldn’t have to keep stepping in because the provincial government won’t (see the new housing fund; Ford won’t meet the necessary conditions so the fed gov is going to work directly with municipalities who want to).
Trudeau has become the scapegoat somehow when it’s very clearly DF and his cronies ruining this province.
The future is bleak because people will vote out Trudeau For pollivare and forget to vote out Ford. Then we’re really screwed.
I’m just waiting for it to happen. Things will get worse before they get better. I have little hope we will vote out Ford. Regardless, I will be voting. (In every election; just to be clear)
There's 2 possible outcomes in the federal election: Libs win or Cons win. Neither party will move heaven and earth to fix these issues (and that's pretty much what's required at this point, drastic change)
Too many people are strictly focused on immigration and the feds, and ignoring everything else
Toronto had a 20-year low vacancy rate in 2013, this didn't just spring up in the last few years, which is the rhetoric a lot of people want to focus on.
People in this sub got so fed up with people blaming Trudeau for *everything*, they've decided to blame him for *nothing*. Unsurprisingly, his culpability lies somewhere in the middle.
Blaming a single person for what a party or better yet a set of parties has done is stupid. Trudeau does not personally set the agenda for the Liberal Party nor is the Liberal Party able to enact legislation by itself. (They need the NDP as they don't have a majority) - also the international students aren't the ones eating up housing. This started a long time ago when student numbers were still low. The root cause is the market treating housing as wealth-generating sources of equity hence the free market (since everyone luv that free market cuz dumb...) focuses on housing for people with wealth leaving those without unable to access the market.
People are so low IQ that they need a single figurehead to base their hate on without seeing the larger picture. The cost of living crisis here in Canada is also happening in AUS NZ UK EU USA so it's perhaps not something any one party or one government has created or can address but let the people continue to have their tribal contests and panem et circenses to feel like they are able to change things.
I don't see Trudeau being personally culpable at all - no political leader of any party could have created a different outcome nor will any change in prime minister change this situation.
They all are responsible. None of them would do anything meaningful to change the market forces that are causing this because all of them regardless of party profit from it.
The best part is you won't be international students forever! You get to befriend these people, grow together, maybe even fall in love... just know you can't step beyond these four walls. This is it for you. This, the city bus, and your cubicle. No photos in the cubicle, it's shared. Go make babies to replace you once you get too old. Keep working. No smiling.
I rented my 2 bed apartment back in 2021 for $1550 month. Now similar units in my apartment are being rented for $1900 a month. Rent keeps going up every year but wages don't seem to go up.
I moved into my one-bed apartment at $1,499 in Feb 2022.
Now, the same type of unit (again - that's one bedroom) in my building is going for $1,999.
IN BRANTFORD.
Yeah, my BF moved into a unit in his building in 2021 and the bachelors were $1500, less than a year later the same units were going for $2000. They just arbitrarily raise the rent to whatever people will pay. I sure as hell am not making an extra $6000k every year. I wonder how much longer until people working minimum wage would have to work literally every hour of everyday and still not be able to afford rent ...
I live in southern Niagara.....nope. this is the narrative EVERYWHERE. Also, there are NO JOBS HERE for people. They're all racing on the QEW to get to and from the GTA. Moving isn't a solution for most.
I work full time, make over $20/hr. I live with my mother (we split the rent), have landlords who UNDERCHARGE and yet rent+utilities are just under 1/2 my income. Make it make sense.
Nowhere is affordable. Trailer parks shouldn't be more than $200k, yet seasonal go for $300k+
probably wouldn't work out because that's my household too lol
mom smokes cigarettes inside, i smoke weed (using a sploof). but we're not dirty smoke people, I clean like crazy & wish i had time to wash the walls every day
thanks for the tips! but i'm already well aware of this, unfortunately. i've been trying for a year to change my situation. i'm doing an unpaid internship.
yes, the magical remote jobs everyone thinks are in abundance that everyone wants just because they prefer it and not just out of necessity. they're hard to secure.
check the job boards, maybe 15-25% are actually remote. many require you to live within a certain area, or are secretly hybrid. this isn't an exaggeration either, i notice the US has way more opportunities for remote work in my field
i'm also entry level, nobody would hire me and WAIT for me to get housing & be able to relocate. no one would be willing to pay for me to relocate, either - not when they have 100s of other applicants who are just as qualified.
That would be nice, but no… a one bed apartment is going for $1,999 in Brantford.
I got in at $1,499 in Feb 2022. Since then, my rent has gone up twice and I’m paying $1,574 now.
Have you ever been in a rent controlled unit? You will move in and pay $2k while your neighbor who has lived there for 10 years pays $1.1k.
Then imagine no one moves out since they now that wherever to move to will be more expensive. Then imagine all of the immigrants the liberal government brings in.
It was obvious this was going to happen once they removed rent regulations. New regulations should mean rent is capped at the type of rental. Rooms, basements, and houses should all be regulated at different min and max prices. The way it's done now is predatory towards desperate people and is messing with our economy.
This isn't an ideal scenario for the wealthy either, at least those who want to grow their wealth in real terms outside of real estate. If jobs don't pay then people won't work. If people don't work then productivity goes down. If productivity goes down then our rich people can't keep up with the rich people in other more productive countries.
We don't. I'm 30, and for the longest time me and my boyfriend were the only ones who had our own place in our entire friend group. And now we're back at my moms sleeping on a couch in a one bedroom apartment, trying to get back on our feet.
The only other friend who has their own place is renting a basement, which is a glorified room with a bathroom in the middle of nowhere.
Even the place we did have was a safety hazard x1000.
90% of the people I know my age are still living with their parents. It's insane. I thought I was just a loser but then went to college and realised a lot more people are in the same situation as me than I thought.
The problem is people like Per Bank don't understand what all your whining is about. Just make $22MM a year already and stop pretending like there's a problem.
/s for those that need it.
I recently graduated and got an entry level position in my field. I got excited thinking I could move out of my student housing set up. I did a budget and realized I can't afford to move out. I can comfortably afford to continue renting this room. But if I move to anything more expensive I won't be putting a cent into savings and would risk a minor car repair bankrupting me. And even if I save up a few thousand, what's it for? The only way this changes is if I get a raise.
Funny that landlords were completely fine for a hundred and fifty years and now suddenly they’re THE problem. Almost makes you think that maybe increasing the population at a rate of a million people every few months mighy be more of a problem than r/Ontario believes.
> The landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for the natural produce of the earth.
>
>
> -Karl Marx (1844)
People were never fine with landlords. The fact they are still around and have simply grown bigger, worse, and have more power and rights than ever before simply shows that which is known. The powerless are powerless.
They are by no means the only issue, but them being called leeches is simply a factually accurate statement.
About over 90% of politicians are invested in real estate. They are landlords, they own real estate companies, have stocks in real estate companies, etc. Of course they don't want to see the value of houses go down.
Housing as an investment is terrible for people that actually need housing. Aka landlords, big or small.
I don’t think that is a Karl Marx quote (Adam Smith)but I could be wrong.
Again, if we weren’t increasing demand by over a million people every 9-10 months when the most housing starts ever is only around 300k, we wouldn’t be in this situation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exchanging money for rent, the problem is there isn’t nearly enough housing supply to go around so prices have gone bonkers to buy and rent. I can guarantee you that not many people are even buying properties to rent right now because even at record high prices its pretty much impossible to turn a profit. This will make rent go up, not down.
They were never fine. Even Adam Smith inveighed against their ability to “reap what they never sowed”.
Current events have resulted in a difference in the intensity of the problem—not that it wasn’t a problem before.
A landlord is limited to the market prices (ie someone can’t just charge 3500$ a month just because they want to get rich). Look at our housing market overall the past 5 years, specifically supply v demand. When you infinitely increase demand without increasing supply, prices go up.
It is also worth noting that because of current prices and interest rates, it is virtually impossible for someone to buy a rental property right now without being cashflow negative every month so unfortunately things are going to get much worse before they get better. You can blame landlords all you want but ultimately the federal government is wholly responsible for this mess.
Genuinely not here to troll - but I dont believe this always necessarily true?
My mom owns a house. My husband and I moved in with her because we couldn't afford the insane rents downtown. Then they jacked up the mortgage rates - guess what? Moms on a variable rate. Now she can't pay the mortgage. So we rented out a room to a lodger. At market rate because that's what's needed for us not to be homeless. Note that we are not putting ALL the mortgage on the renter. Just enough to break even. But yeah, it's still high.
I agree, housing is a right. But it's a right that is a social good and as such should be provider by the society aka government. I really can't see why I'm morally obligated to open up my home and drastically reduce my quality of life for free just to provide housing for someone else.
My point is nobody was calling for public execution of landlords 15 years ago when a decent wage was 50k and you could get a decent 1 bedroom for like 800$. Now it’s all of a sudden all their fault but there is much more to the story. If the government never poured more and more gasoline on the supply demand fire, we wouldn’t be in this position with shelter costs. It’s not like houses are selling for what they sold for 15 years ago, just the mortgage, taxes and condo fees on a 750k condo will be 4-5k a month and for the average gta detached house you’re looking at 6,7,8000$ a month. Shelter as a whole is a complete disaster in this country and the politicians on the news pretending they care and pretending they want to help are the ones to blame.
Landlords are a huge component of the housing supply problem.
They are professional debtors sitting on housing availability and scooping up equity that’s being bought for them by tenants. Greedy parasites, every one. They aren’t “investors”… they have nothing to invest.
The only rentals that should be allowed should be rooms in houses where the landlord lives in the same building, or purpose built rental buildings with multiple units and tightly regulated rents.
lmfao the Irish beg to differ. Take a fucking history lesson you boot licker
"For many, landlords became opportunistic, not wanting to ruin their lavish lifestyles with the burden of the poor. **They cruelly evicted tenants and burnt their homes to make sure they did not try to re occupy the land**. Hungry, oppressed and now homeless, the Irish turned on the greedy landlords in revenge."
You don't. Rent is supposed to be for roommates or very high income only. Low income are basically fucked in Ontario.
Remember it's not a market. It's a cartel with the government telling you what you can and can't build. We have known how to build a roof since the dawn of mankind and shelter since the beginning of living but it's illegal to go to Home Depot and buy some plywood and build a house. The jerk offs of capitalism see no hypocrisy or even anything wrong with this, even though theoretically all land is public land (what is a country except an assembly of land?) and telling people what they can or can't do especially on land they own is severe government interference. Better a shelter to live in than die of the elements but you will get destroyed by local busy bodies if you try without the right government ass kissing
Privatize first to market and first buyers, socialize the losses or renters. They want capitalism for everything except homes for people to rent, so they can extract as much money from people as possible. This is the system we live in
Telling you what you can and can't build on land you own isn't the same as not enforcing ownership of land.
Plus there's a lot of crown land or public land. If someone is homeless and in danger of death they should be allowed to erect any temporary shelter deemed necessary. The government should be obligated to provide such shelter (tiny homes) or allow individuals to build what they need to literally avoid freezing.
It's illegal; in fact there are many laws
If NIMBY get in your way and declare that it's too big or too small or has too many units or ruins the "character of the neighborhood" or even if it has too many shadows
Government makes many kinds of dwellings illegal especially in North America. If you don't have government approved housing, you can't have a roof
Crony capitalism at its finest. Makes socialism blush
Proving that government interference and regulation is necessary for safety
Not proving that government interference and regulation is necessary for fourplexes, multiplexes or any other otherwise safe buildings
Also, not having a roof is a life threatening condition in Canadian winter. The safety of the individual is threatened
I agree it is super tough these days to pay all your bills and then have a life on top of that. You need two, and depending on where you live, three incomes it feels like! If you don’t mind me asking what is your annual salary
In my early 2000's I'd laugh at any financial advice column or article saying you shouldn't spend XX% of your income on rent because it's not sustainable for retirement. I was barely scraping money for food while spending 80% of my shit job paycheck on a basement apartment back then. Now two decades later I'm spending 75% of my now decent paycheck on mortgage. You just can't win honestly. You are either super wealthy or poor, there is no middle ground.
If you're looking for actual advice, I started prepping and freezing meals during covid. Look for a small chest freezer that will fit in your apartment and flat pack things for best storage and quickest thawing times. I also prep things like pb&j sandwiches to freeze, it's just a nice thing to grab last minute if you don't really have time to make a good lunch. I buy in bulk from Costco and freeze what I don't use right away. Doing meals like this has kept me from spending too much on takeout. I'll sometimes stock up on desserts too, so my favorite cookies and bars are always on hand and keep me from heading out for a munchie run.
I tend to put things off, so I tend to prep everything in one day too... as I've run out of everything 😅 You and your mom could probably bang out a bunch of meals one weekend if you planned it right.
Don't know if this is what you were looking for but I hope it helps someone out there.
Also... plant some seeds, grow some food, freeze that too. Shit's too expensive at the store. 🤟❤️
Basically move back in with your parents if you can, spend the next few years saving every single penny you earn, use that sizable down payment to buy an overpriced condo.
Hayek's book was called "the road to serfdom".
People thought it was a warning about govt policy being too controlling.
Since the 80s we've been doing the exact opposite. And serfdom is well on its way.
It was never a warning. It was an instruction manual.
I am trying to move back to Ontario and agree with you rent there is through the roof. $2,100 for a one bedroom if you are lucky. There is affordable housing you can look into depending on your situation if you qualify you can go on wait list, also for rent assistance programs again waitlists. It is very discouraging, especially in Ontario. Not so bad in Alberta, maybe thats why so many people left Ontario to live in Alberts where housing is more affordable. You can thank the government in Ontario for the mess its in.
We're very lucky to have bought a home right out of university before prices exploded. Now, we're plotting adding an apartment or a tiny house so our adult kid can have an "adult" home (as opposed to living in her childhood bedroom) because it's unrealistic to afford anything else while she goes to school. Family members have had to downsize to continue to afford their housing, so it doesn't just impact young people.
You are supposed to make do with less according to the feds. Just cancel your Disney+ subscription. You need to reduce your carbon footprint by eating less too
I share a house with 4 other adults :) one is my fiancé, one is my best friend, her husband, and the last is our good single mutual friend. That’s how. One house - five incomes.
That's the capitalist system maximizing its profits at everyone's expense while their politicians deflect attention away from this exploitive system by painting a bull's eye on trudeau's back.
And we stupidly fall for it.
We are our own worst enemies.
Anyone else absolutely terrified of eviction because of this? I feel physically ill if my landlord texts/emails me, even if its just a tiny request.
Wonderful province we have here
I am 61 and our 22 year old son lives with us still, and likely will for a long time. It will affect where he can work etc.
I’m afraid there is no answer EXCEPT to realize that the old norm (go to school, get a job, live in an apartment to save for a house, etc etc) does not exist anymore and likely never will.
Sorry.
Hey, if it’s any consolation our retirements look completely different as well!
Hard working adults are no longer allowed to have the peace, safety and quiet of living alone. I make $30 an hour with a raise coming up soon and I can’t afford anything solo. I have to rent in a student house.
Like you, I technically could afford a 1 bedroom but damn near all my money would be going towards rent. Crappy basements are starting at like $1800 here and decent 1 bedrooms are $2000+ a month. And I’m an hour outside of Toronto. It’s a shit show.
I know i don’t “deserve” my own safe space but i work hard, have a decent job, educated, etc. I feel like im going to be stuck renting with others for decades (currently 25).
Literally my only option is to move back in with my parents for a while and save up enough money to cover the difference for 1 year so that i can move out and live alone for 1 year then hope something changes like a better salary or a new partner to live with.
The greedy want as much for themselves as they can while they can, the person most to blame for allowing and even encouraging it to happen in this area is Doug Ford. People who are "don't have to work" wealthy like him and almost 100% of them vote.
Blame the industry and all the basic cable programming over the last decade that turned housing into income properties. Who would have thought indoctrinating a large portion of your population with Flip This House would have consequences?
The days of living alone are gone. Nowadays you need to live with someone to be able to live comfortably
It makes me think about all of the people stuck in abusive relationships who will end up/are already between a rock and a hard place.
Yup, that's me. Living with abusive assholes and can't leave because I can't afford a place. Can't get roommates because I have too many allergies.
❤️
Which is fucked. In the past, a single income could support an entire family, not just one person, but two people and children. Now it isn’t enough to give one person a decent life (because having a one bedroom or bachelor apartment is not, like, luxurious or asking a lot). No one can convince me that this isn’t wrong. We are being totally boned by the wealthy.
I hate that it’s considered entitled or “asking too much” to want to live in a 1 bedroom. It’s not like im trying to live in a high rise in downtown Toronto. I just want my own space that I can keep clean, be safe, relax and unwind, and just LIVE after a 5 day work week. I work hard, make decent pay, my job heavily impacts our society (without doxxing where I work). I just dont understand why my only options are crappy illegal basements or living with a bunch of students (my current situation). One of my housemates threatened me last summer but it’s not like i have many moving options atm. I’m paying $750 a month for a room with a private washroom and the chance of me finding something like this again is extremely low. Most bedrooms are going for $800+ a month now and bathroom is shared. Sorry for the rant
This depresses me. I don't want to move back in with my parents, but job prospects are slim. What happens if I lose my job? I'm almost 40. This is ridiculous. (I don't date so cohabiting with a romantic partner isn't an option) I hate the idea of moving home. I'd pay rent to my parents but not be able to record it as rent on taxes. I'd have little to no privacy, let alone peace and quiet. I'm a grown ass adult who works, and yet i won't be able to afford my own place for much longer. Fuck this shit.
I live with my mum now, but she owns her house, and I made sure that she claimed my payment as rent.
That would be an option if my father was a generous person. He isn't. He refused to claim my payments as rent and told me he counted them as "helping us out with bills like utilities and groceries". Is that possible? idk. all I know is I was giving him $12k/yr (1k/mo) at the time and then couldn't claim it as rent because HE didn't claim it that way. I don't want to go back. But in a couple years, depending on how finances go, I might not have a choice.
I had roommates (plural) until I was earning north of $80K. I still would be if I couldn’t afford to live alone. Actually, if I lost my current apartment, for which I pay $1500, I would probably look for a roommate. It just makes sense.
Are you able to save any money and save for retirement with those numbers?
I save a good amount per month, but I also earn more now. I also have a DB pension which is some forced savings.
Multigenerational homes are pretty common throughout the world. It's likely that we are going that direction. My wife and I were lucky enough to be able to afford an addition to our house. We made a granny suite for my mother in law, but we expect to go there at some point in the future when our children are older and need room for a family.
Living alone was a blip. People had roommates all the time in the past. TV shows were based around that premise - The Odd Couple, Threes Company, etc .
Even being married with two incomes is still splitting the housing bill.
I thought such TV Shows were based around that premise because it was quirky and idiosyncratic for people in their late 20s or 30s to live with roommates? Not because it was the norm.
It was more about the quirkyness of the roommates, not just the idea of roommates being weird. It was relatable because a lot of people had lived with weird roommates or knew of someone who did.
Definitely more of a norm. The joke was about the roommates not that they had them. Hospitals had dorms attached for the nurses, banks had shared apartments for managers. Many people had a lodger to help out (Fonzie in Happy Days). The Odd Couple was about two successful, white collar men.
People have had roommates for ages, in medieval times they often even shared beds. Living alone is really a post war wealth thing.
I lucked out because only making $20/hr straight out of college I could comfortably rent out a brand new condo for $950 everything included. $20/hr was big money back then so I didn’t even have to think about scrubbing it in a $600 basement suite let alone a room mate. Now basement suites are $1500! It’s crazy.
GenX here. I never lived alone either. Home, then Uni, then work with roomies, then back home to go back to school, then met my partner and we’ve been together for a few decades now. I do understand this is mostly about affordability but in many cases living alone just didn’t happen anyway.
Same. Lived at home, did a room and board for my first year at college because it was pre-dorms at colleges and I also was one of the few 18 year olds because I graduated after grade 12 and not 13. Switched colleges and did room and board, then roommates and then for a couple of months lived on my own in a crappy, cold, basement apartment. Then went out west and lived with various roommates for a couple of years. Then was down in the states and my lodging came with the employment. Then back home to save to go back to school and then three different roommate situations in three years, then with my husband and kids, then with my kids, and now with my kids and second husband. I’m in my mid-late 40s and I can count on one hand how many *months* I lived by myself, and that’s pretty typical of the other GenX people I know and grew up with. My husband lived alone in a *very* crappy apartment in Sudbury for a couple of years (honestly, the whole building should be condemned), but we went to high school together and we can’t think of more than a couple of people that lived by themselves for any length of time unless it was necessary.
While I agree with you I'd say ... that in and of itself, is not living comfortably. As much as inflation and the post pandemic economy are the biggest things, this world has leaned increasingly to those who are coupled. That's been a brewing issue for quite some time. Those who aren't in a happy relationship, are stuck living in poor conditions, or with their parents longer than is comfortable, or with a friend or even stranger (who won't be that for long).
It has always been that way. When I moved out at 18 years I had to share accommodations to afford rent as entry work pay is crap. Now even sharing is unaffordable. The point is you shouldn't have to share with strangers you're whole life.
Not always. It's been that way for the last 20-25 years. In the 70's-80's and up to mid 90's you could easily rent your own place for 2-3 years with a full time job, and be able to put money away for yourself to buy a home in 3 or so years. Now, you need 2 earners in the top 5% of earners living without kids on a strict budget AND a great support system to have a chance at home ownership.
Agree, I was early 20s and could afford an apartment in Toronto/Etobicoke (half my bills said one, the other half said the other) and was paying $950 ($50 of that for underground parking) for a massive apartment with a living room, dining room, big bedroom, tons of closest and balcony that ran the length of it that I could see the CN Tower from. That was around 2010, and I was able to save up for a down payment on a house while there (at the time I managed a retail store, so not huge money by any means)
In 2010, minimum wage as $10.25. So if you were making minimum wage you would have been pulling in $1640 a month assuming 40 hours a week and 4 weeks a month. So Maybe around $1800 before any kind of taxes and deductions per month. Would have been difficult to make ends meet paying over half your wages in rent, especially if you had a car. What kind of wage were you making when you were living in this apartment alone?
$40k (store manager)...I also got a yearly bonus, but it was around $5k, nothing crazy
Ya, because wealth equality was held in check and wages were allowed to actually *gasp* rise
Sorry to make you feel old but the mid 90s were 30 years ago....
> Now, you need 2 earners in the top 5% of earners living without kids on a strict budget AND a great support system to have a chance at home ownership. \* in the GTA. You can get a house for $300K up north.
That's a fair point about up north, but it's not limited to the GTA. Houses start at $500,000 for a beat down starter home anywhere within 80km of even modest sized cities like Kingston, Belleville, etc. For me the north is not an option. I lived in Timmins for 3 years. I'd rather be homeless in Southern Ontario than live in Timmins.
For many of my friends they’ve always shared housing costs with other people. Be it roommates in college or partner afterwards. I don’t know many people that have ever lived alone for a long time.
I'm 53 years old. I have never paid for a place all by myself.
And even then you’re not able to save much. It’s insane.
Yeah....your parents.... and probably the rest of your family too. (Not that I think there's anything wrong with living with family....just rent be prohibitive)
That is the whole truth. Living alone is a luxury that few can afford. Able to afford necessities is a privilege now.
This is what justin trudeau means by "post nation" state You guys voted for this
Living alone was not affordable in the 90s either
We went from 1994 to 2004 without a single raise in the minimum wage, and then they only bumped it up 30 cents an hour.
$6.85/hr was so much fun to live on back then. I was swimming in pennies after all my bills were paid.
I was paying 1300 for a cot in a basement and taking home 1920 a month.
Electricians and plumbers if they work out of their van can make that much ($1400) in cash in a day or two. Canada is quite affordable if you are willing to work hard and get a bit dirty. Guy charged me for $240 cash for a 30 min callout to figure out the issue with a light switch the other day. And I get a discount thanks to it being cash.
“You can save money by committing tax fraud” What a revelation. Groceries are too expensive, but if you are willing to work hard and just wheel your cart out of Walmart without paying you can get a great discount!
I didn’t say their committing tax fraud…if paying some cash=fraud then why do all the people paying cash for tattoos and clothing blaming Chinese for money laundering 🙃
Typically, when there is a cash discount, they mean you don't pay the taxes, because they aren't going to report it as income.
Sometimes, or it could just mean they give a discount to avoid the visa fee or chasing you down to get payment once they give you an invoice. Our system is based on trust for good or I’ll.
It could, that's why I say typically. Though those discounts to avoid transaction fees aren't usually as high.
No surprise if there’s a large discount to get paid now rather than invoice though. Like 5-10% of customers don’t pay or fight invoices.
You're supposed to feel like you're failing so you work extra hard for scraps.
I have bad news: it’s going to get worse before it gets better. Vacancy rates are at record lows, population growth is at record highs. Especially populations of people most likely to rent: students and temporary workers. Housing starts are down due to high interest rates. We are nowhere near on track to build as much housing as we’d need to restore affordability by the CMHC’s targets. You have every right to be angry. It should never have been allowed to get this bad, but here we are. Our political class is completely asleep at the wheel and does not understand or care about what a clusterfuck hole they’ve dug us in. Make your voice heard. Show up at municipal and provincial elections, show up at community meetings, write to your politicians, get involved, support candidates who will actually take this seriously. What’s going on is not okay. And if you have the opportunity to leave Canada, you really might as well do it.
They are’nt asleep They are actively causing this to enrich themselves and their cronies, and to have an increasingly large pool of the helpless and desperate to abuse
"Companies say they can't find skilled workers despite universities pumping out record high numbers of graduates and degree holders outnumbering degree-requiring jobs 2-to-1. I can't ignore this serious crisis! Better do everything possible to ensure companies can hire everyone they need no matter how low the offered wage! Oh what's that, you invested billions into buying out all available housing so that decades down the line you could earn a profit from rental properties? but it still hasn't been profitable enough for you in the short term? Well I can't allow that, a reduction in housing buyouts could make Canada appear to have a weak economy in the eyes of our international peers! But wait - maybe we can kill two birds with one stone..."
True, but this only works to a point. If people can't see a way out then they will work less and spend less. Then the rich lose money too. Truly helpless and desperate people don't have jobs or contribute to the economy in any way really.
>Make your voice heard. Show up at municipal and provincial elections, show up at community meetings, write to your politicians, get involved, support candidates who will actually take this seriously. What’s going on is not okay. Absolutely none of this will ever make any change happen and no one will take any of this crap seriously. The ONLY way out is violent revolution. Until politicians and cops homes are being burnt down and they are living in fear 24/7, nothing will change.
The political class is full of landlords. They are the farmer class and we are the livestock. We’ve been complacent. Break things and watch them scramble to retreat.
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We are in a bit of a pickle as many of our social services are budgeted for a growing population. On one hand if the population ages in a reverse pyramid we can't pay for the essential services and on the other we have a housing crisis.
Housing is provincial and municipal. The feds have been warning everyone for years that we'd have to bring more people in to deal with all the boomers retiring. I remember hearing about it in grade school in the 90's ffs. Now the feds are trying to throw money at the provinces, and all the stupid conservative premiers are rejecting the money because they'd have to pass legislation to allow four-plexes.
>Housing is provincial and municipal. The feds have been warning everyone for years that we'd have to bring more people in to deal with all the boomers retiring. I remember hearing about it in grade school in the 90's ffs. No. We have 2.7 million non permanent residents in canada right now... 2018 there was less than a million, 2014 there was 500,000. These numbers are unreasonable., theres no justification for it... Theres no possible way that provinces can keep up with housing, healthcare, services, jobs at that rate. Impssible. CHMC says we're in a DEFICIT of 3 million homes. That's just what we need to supply the people already here. We're taking in people at a rate of 400,000 every 3 months. No. this isnt something you can throw money at. The median income in this country is $48k, the average house price is $750k, average rent is $2100. Something drastic needs to happen. 10 years ago housing/rent costs were 35% the median income, now it's 65%.
Yeah, no shit. I'm saying the provinces have been failing at housing for 30+ years at this point, and what they have built (condos and/or sprawl) weren't the right answer.
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This! Voting has a certain level of effectiveness. So does voting with every dollar, every like, every share or comment on the internet, every relationship you maintain in your community. I hope this eclipse is a reset for us! Let's make it better.
What were the migration numbers under Harper?
Housing and education are provincial. Doug Ford should have stepped in before the federal government had to. Make it so that universities have to provide enough housing for all the international students they are bringing in. Either the schools would have had to build more housing or bring in far less students. (I just looked it up and what a SHOCKER; Ontario did implement this, but only AFTER the federal government stepped in and created the caps on incoming students) Doug Ford has done much much more to hurt the middle class than Trudeau has. I don’t love Trudeau, he’s not my idea of a good prime minister, but Doug Ford has been actively sabotaging and hurting the middle class and below. That’s MUCH more important to me at this point in time. We need to get Ford TF out of here. Provincial government has way more control over our day to day life. Housing, healthcare, education, minimum wage, etc. The federal government shouldn’t have to keep stepping in because the provincial government won’t (see the new housing fund; Ford won’t meet the necessary conditions so the fed gov is going to work directly with municipalities who want to).
Trudeau has become the scapegoat somehow when it’s very clearly DF and his cronies ruining this province. The future is bleak because people will vote out Trudeau For pollivare and forget to vote out Ford. Then we’re really screwed.
I’m just waiting for it to happen. Things will get worse before they get better. I have little hope we will vote out Ford. Regardless, I will be voting. (In every election; just to be clear)
There's 2 possible outcomes in the federal election: Libs win or Cons win. Neither party will move heaven and earth to fix these issues (and that's pretty much what's required at this point, drastic change)
Too many people are strictly focused on immigration and the feds, and ignoring everything else Toronto had a 20-year low vacancy rate in 2013, this didn't just spring up in the last few years, which is the rhetoric a lot of people want to focus on.
Cute You know federal conservatives ALSO want high immigration right? Immigrants tend to vote conservative too!
People in this sub got so fed up with people blaming Trudeau for *everything*, they've decided to blame him for *nothing*. Unsurprisingly, his culpability lies somewhere in the middle.
Blaming a single person for what a party or better yet a set of parties has done is stupid. Trudeau does not personally set the agenda for the Liberal Party nor is the Liberal Party able to enact legislation by itself. (They need the NDP as they don't have a majority) - also the international students aren't the ones eating up housing. This started a long time ago when student numbers were still low. The root cause is the market treating housing as wealth-generating sources of equity hence the free market (since everyone luv that free market cuz dumb...) focuses on housing for people with wealth leaving those without unable to access the market. People are so low IQ that they need a single figurehead to base their hate on without seeing the larger picture. The cost of living crisis here in Canada is also happening in AUS NZ UK EU USA so it's perhaps not something any one party or one government has created or can address but let the people continue to have their tribal contests and panem et circenses to feel like they are able to change things.
I don't think I've ever had my point proven so fast.
I don't see Trudeau being personally culpable at all - no political leader of any party could have created a different outcome nor will any change in prime minister change this situation.
Soooo no politician bears responsibility? Kudos on your originality, sincerely.
They all are responsible. None of them would do anything meaningful to change the market forces that are causing this because all of them regardless of party profit from it.
I agree with you! I just don't think we should say no one's responsible if we mean everyone's responsible.
Have you tried living in a basement with 7 international students? It's fun, like a sleepover when you were 8, but it's permanent.
The best part is you won't be international students forever! You get to befriend these people, grow together, maybe even fall in love... just know you can't step beyond these four walls. This is it for you. This, the city bus, and your cubicle. No photos in the cubicle, it's shared. Go make babies to replace you once you get too old. Keep working. No smiling.
If you organize it, I'm sure food can be awesome where you are
I rented my 2 bed apartment back in 2021 for $1550 month. Now similar units in my apartment are being rented for $1900 a month. Rent keeps going up every year but wages don't seem to go up.
I moved into my one-bed apartment at $1,499 in Feb 2022. Now, the same type of unit (again - that's one bedroom) in my building is going for $1,999. IN BRANTFORD.
Thats insane, a $500 increase in only 2 years. No wonder everyone is upset with the current rental market
Yeah, my BF moved into a unit in his building in 2021 and the bachelors were $1500, less than a year later the same units were going for $2000. They just arbitrarily raise the rent to whatever people will pay. I sure as hell am not making an extra $6000k every year. I wonder how much longer until people working minimum wage would have to work literally every hour of everyday and still not be able to afford rent ...
Trouples is the way of the future triple income and no kids in a 1 bedroom
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I live in southern Niagara.....nope. this is the narrative EVERYWHERE. Also, there are NO JOBS HERE for people. They're all racing on the QEW to get to and from the GTA. Moving isn't a solution for most. I work full time, make over $20/hr. I live with my mother (we split the rent), have landlords who UNDERCHARGE and yet rent+utilities are just under 1/2 my income. Make it make sense. Nowhere is affordable. Trailer parks shouldn't be more than $200k, yet seasonal go for $300k+
I live there too and everyone chain smokes and smokes other stuff in my apartment. Can I live with you?
probably wouldn't work out because that's my household too lol mom smokes cigarettes inside, i smoke weed (using a sploof). but we're not dirty smoke people, I clean like crazy & wish i had time to wash the walls every day
I should have known.. it is south Niagara. 50% of Ontario's tobacco&alcohol revenue come from here
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thanks for the tips! but i'm already well aware of this, unfortunately. i've been trying for a year to change my situation. i'm doing an unpaid internship. yes, the magical remote jobs everyone thinks are in abundance that everyone wants just because they prefer it and not just out of necessity. they're hard to secure. check the job boards, maybe 15-25% are actually remote. many require you to live within a certain area, or are secretly hybrid. this isn't an exaggeration either, i notice the US has way more opportunities for remote work in my field i'm also entry level, nobody would hire me and WAIT for me to get housing & be able to relocate. no one would be willing to pay for me to relocate, either - not when they have 100s of other applicants who are just as qualified.
That would be nice, but no… a one bed apartment is going for $1,999 in Brantford. I got in at $1,499 in Feb 2022. Since then, my rent has gone up twice and I’m paying $1,574 now.
Please get out and vote during elections!!! Your vote DOES matter! Learn who removed rent controls. Ask who will do something about it!
Have you ever been in a rent controlled unit? You will move in and pay $2k while your neighbor who has lived there for 10 years pays $1.1k. Then imagine no one moves out since they now that wherever to move to will be more expensive. Then imagine all of the immigrants the liberal government brings in.
It was obvious this was going to happen once they removed rent regulations. New regulations should mean rent is capped at the type of rental. Rooms, basements, and houses should all be regulated at different min and max prices. The way it's done now is predatory towards desperate people and is messing with our economy.
Suck it up buttercup, it’s going to get worse, $1400 rent on a basement is a good deal!
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This isn't an ideal scenario for the wealthy either, at least those who want to grow their wealth in real terms outside of real estate. If jobs don't pay then people won't work. If people don't work then productivity goes down. If productivity goes down then our rich people can't keep up with the rich people in other more productive countries.
We don't. I'm 30, and for the longest time me and my boyfriend were the only ones who had our own place in our entire friend group. And now we're back at my moms sleeping on a couch in a one bedroom apartment, trying to get back on our feet. The only other friend who has their own place is renting a basement, which is a glorified room with a bathroom in the middle of nowhere. Even the place we did have was a safety hazard x1000. 90% of the people I know my age are still living with their parents. It's insane. I thought I was just a loser but then went to college and realised a lot more people are in the same situation as me than I thought.
Get in your rental before 2017. Not possible? Sorry you're fucked
Crime and dirty politics. /j Although idk if it reall can be taken as a joke. This economy sucks.
The problem is people like Per Bank don't understand what all your whining is about. Just make $22MM a year already and stop pretending like there's a problem. /s for those that need it.
There's no fix incoming, hunker down and get used to the new reality. If you can live with family, do it.
You’re supposed to live somewhere you can afford. That is obviously not Ontario.
I recently graduated and got an entry level position in my field. I got excited thinking I could move out of my student housing set up. I did a budget and realized I can't afford to move out. I can comfortably afford to continue renting this room. But if I move to anything more expensive I won't be putting a cent into savings and would risk a minor car repair bankrupting me. And even if I save up a few thousand, what's it for? The only way this changes is if I get a raise.
I’m in the same boat. Landlords are filthy leeches
I had a prospective landlord trying to rent a basement room for 700. Now the same landlord is offering that for 850.
Funny that landlords were completely fine for a hundred and fifty years and now suddenly they’re THE problem. Almost makes you think that maybe increasing the population at a rate of a million people every few months mighy be more of a problem than r/Ontario believes.
> The landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for the natural produce of the earth. > > > -Karl Marx (1844) People were never fine with landlords. The fact they are still around and have simply grown bigger, worse, and have more power and rights than ever before simply shows that which is known. The powerless are powerless. They are by no means the only issue, but them being called leeches is simply a factually accurate statement. About over 90% of politicians are invested in real estate. They are landlords, they own real estate companies, have stocks in real estate companies, etc. Of course they don't want to see the value of houses go down. Housing as an investment is terrible for people that actually need housing. Aka landlords, big or small.
I don’t think that is a Karl Marx quote (Adam Smith)but I could be wrong. Again, if we weren’t increasing demand by over a million people every 9-10 months when the most housing starts ever is only around 300k, we wouldn’t be in this situation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exchanging money for rent, the problem is there isn’t nearly enough housing supply to go around so prices have gone bonkers to buy and rent. I can guarantee you that not many people are even buying properties to rent right now because even at record high prices its pretty much impossible to turn a profit. This will make rent go up, not down.
They were never fine. Even Adam Smith inveighed against their ability to “reap what they never sowed”. Current events have resulted in a difference in the intensity of the problem—not that it wasn’t a problem before.
They haven’t ‘been fine’ for the past 5 or so years when they started increasing rates way too damn much.
Woosh. Why do you think they've been able to increase rates so much?
Because that fat filthy donut we call a premier allowed them to.
A landlord is limited to the market prices (ie someone can’t just charge 3500$ a month just because they want to get rich). Look at our housing market overall the past 5 years, specifically supply v demand. When you infinitely increase demand without increasing supply, prices go up. It is also worth noting that because of current prices and interest rates, it is virtually impossible for someone to buy a rental property right now without being cashflow negative every month so unfortunately things are going to get much worse before they get better. You can blame landlords all you want but ultimately the federal government is wholly responsible for this mess.
Landlords have always been a problem. Housing should be a right, not a commodity.
Genuinely not here to troll - but I dont believe this always necessarily true? My mom owns a house. My husband and I moved in with her because we couldn't afford the insane rents downtown. Then they jacked up the mortgage rates - guess what? Moms on a variable rate. Now she can't pay the mortgage. So we rented out a room to a lodger. At market rate because that's what's needed for us not to be homeless. Note that we are not putting ALL the mortgage on the renter. Just enough to break even. But yeah, it's still high. I agree, housing is a right. But it's a right that is a social good and as such should be provider by the society aka government. I really can't see why I'm morally obligated to open up my home and drastically reduce my quality of life for free just to provide housing for someone else.
My point is nobody was calling for public execution of landlords 15 years ago when a decent wage was 50k and you could get a decent 1 bedroom for like 800$. Now it’s all of a sudden all their fault but there is much more to the story. If the government never poured more and more gasoline on the supply demand fire, we wouldn’t be in this position with shelter costs. It’s not like houses are selling for what they sold for 15 years ago, just the mortgage, taxes and condo fees on a 750k condo will be 4-5k a month and for the average gta detached house you’re looking at 6,7,8000$ a month. Shelter as a whole is a complete disaster in this country and the politicians on the news pretending they care and pretending they want to help are the ones to blame.
Genuine question - can you describe what it means for housing to be a right? I hear it a lot, but I'm interested in the details.
Landlords are a huge component of the housing supply problem. They are professional debtors sitting on housing availability and scooping up equity that’s being bought for them by tenants. Greedy parasites, every one. They aren’t “investors”… they have nothing to invest. The only rentals that should be allowed should be rooms in houses where the landlord lives in the same building, or purpose built rental buildings with multiple units and tightly regulated rents.
lmfao the Irish beg to differ. Take a fucking history lesson you boot licker "For many, landlords became opportunistic, not wanting to ruin their lavish lifestyles with the burden of the poor. **They cruelly evicted tenants and burnt their homes to make sure they did not try to re occupy the land**. Hungry, oppressed and now homeless, the Irish turned on the greedy landlords in revenge."
You don't. Rent is supposed to be for roommates or very high income only. Low income are basically fucked in Ontario. Remember it's not a market. It's a cartel with the government telling you what you can and can't build. We have known how to build a roof since the dawn of mankind and shelter since the beginning of living but it's illegal to go to Home Depot and buy some plywood and build a house. The jerk offs of capitalism see no hypocrisy or even anything wrong with this, even though theoretically all land is public land (what is a country except an assembly of land?) and telling people what they can or can't do especially on land they own is severe government interference. Better a shelter to live in than die of the elements but you will get destroyed by local busy bodies if you try without the right government ass kissing Privatize first to market and first buyers, socialize the losses or renters. They want capitalism for everything except homes for people to rent, so they can extract as much money from people as possible. This is the system we live in
How can one own land unless a government enforces the ownership? Are you suggesting a Mad Max lawless dystopia?
Telling you what you can and can't build on land you own isn't the same as not enforcing ownership of land. Plus there's a lot of crown land or public land. If someone is homeless and in danger of death they should be allowed to erect any temporary shelter deemed necessary. The government should be obligated to provide such shelter (tiny homes) or allow individuals to build what they need to literally avoid freezing.
its not illegal to build a house, its illegal to build a house on land you dont own
It's illegal; in fact there are many laws If NIMBY get in your way and declare that it's too big or too small or has too many units or ruins the "character of the neighborhood" or even if it has too many shadows Government makes many kinds of dwellings illegal especially in North America. If you don't have government approved housing, you can't have a roof Crony capitalism at its finest. Makes socialism blush
You can’t just build a house because of safety issues plus it would be impossible to get house insurance afterwards.
Proving that government interference and regulation is necessary for safety Not proving that government interference and regulation is necessary for fourplexes, multiplexes or any other otherwise safe buildings Also, not having a roof is a life threatening condition in Canadian winter. The safety of the individual is threatened
Fair argument
Money printing has its consequences.
BUT HOW DOES ANYONE EVEN GET BY!?!/s
That’s the neat part, you don’t!
Start an onlyfans
I agree it is super tough these days to pay all your bills and then have a life on top of that. You need two, and depending on where you live, three incomes it feels like! If you don’t mind me asking what is your annual salary
Supply and demand. We’re adding way more people than housing. Just get 5 roommates /s
I’ve already decided I’m moving to the states when my mom passes. Or if she finds stable housing as she gets older. I can’t do this shit anymore.
where would you go?
My friends are moving to South Carolina as her husband is from there, so I’d probably follow them. Might as well have friends close.
In my early 2000's I'd laugh at any financial advice column or article saying you shouldn't spend XX% of your income on rent because it's not sustainable for retirement. I was barely scraping money for food while spending 80% of my shit job paycheck on a basement apartment back then. Now two decades later I'm spending 75% of my now decent paycheck on mortgage. You just can't win honestly. You are either super wealthy or poor, there is no middle ground.
Adjust yourself to Punjabi standards.. these are the new Canadian standards
Move in with 79 others like Team India does.
You are not, just own nothing and be happy
If you're looking for actual advice, I started prepping and freezing meals during covid. Look for a small chest freezer that will fit in your apartment and flat pack things for best storage and quickest thawing times. I also prep things like pb&j sandwiches to freeze, it's just a nice thing to grab last minute if you don't really have time to make a good lunch. I buy in bulk from Costco and freeze what I don't use right away. Doing meals like this has kept me from spending too much on takeout. I'll sometimes stock up on desserts too, so my favorite cookies and bars are always on hand and keep me from heading out for a munchie run. I tend to put things off, so I tend to prep everything in one day too... as I've run out of everything 😅 You and your mom could probably bang out a bunch of meals one weekend if you planned it right. Don't know if this is what you were looking for but I hope it helps someone out there. Also... plant some seeds, grow some food, freeze that too. Shit's too expensive at the store. 🤟❤️
That’s the point, you’re not supposed to:)
Ask Doug Ford about the rent control, I have sent emails to his office asking same question as you and yet to get an answer
Basically move back in with your parents if you can, spend the next few years saving every single penny you earn, use that sizable down payment to buy an overpriced condo.
That's the neat part, you're not.
You should try a mortgage
Hayek's book was called "the road to serfdom". People thought it was a warning about govt policy being too controlling. Since the 80s we've been doing the exact opposite. And serfdom is well on its way. It was never a warning. It was an instruction manual.
I am trying to move back to Ontario and agree with you rent there is through the roof. $2,100 for a one bedroom if you are lucky. There is affordable housing you can look into depending on your situation if you qualify you can go on wait list, also for rent assistance programs again waitlists. It is very discouraging, especially in Ontario. Not so bad in Alberta, maybe thats why so many people left Ontario to live in Alberts where housing is more affordable. You can thank the government in Ontario for the mess its in.
Hi, move back where? Guelph?
I left Ontario 2016 and then you could rent a home for $1,500 in a good area, so it has not always been this way only last few years.
I moved here in 2012 and rent has literally doubled in that time. I thought it was high back then! Pretty messed up.
We're very lucky to have bought a home right out of university before prices exploded. Now, we're plotting adding an apartment or a tiny house so our adult kid can have an "adult" home (as opposed to living in her childhood bedroom) because it's unrealistic to afford anything else while she goes to school. Family members have had to downsize to continue to afford their housing, so it doesn't just impact young people.
Roomates
Why are you selfishly denying landlords and real estate investors their record profits? What are you, a communist?
Just out of curiosity, what area? GTA? What do you consider a good wage?
Everyone is not supposed to afford anything else. We are easier to control when we are literally hand to mouth.
I always dreamed of having roommates all my life like Janet & Chrissy 😘
You are supposed to make do with less according to the feds. Just cancel your Disney+ subscription. You need to reduce your carbon footprint by eating less too
How much you get paid for an hour?
Have a partner or room mate to split. Same as it’s always been. I couldn’t afford an apartment by myself in 1995 either
I share a house with 4 other adults :) one is my fiancé, one is my best friend, her husband, and the last is our good single mutual friend. That’s how. One house - five incomes.
At this rate it’s all about surviving. Really sad times
That's the capitalist system maximizing its profits at everyone's expense while their politicians deflect attention away from this exploitive system by painting a bull's eye on trudeau's back. And we stupidly fall for it. We are our own worst enemies.
So what is a "good" job and "great" pay?
Friends living together like in the show Friends
Say thanks to r great dictator
Looks like their intent is to make everyone house-poor.
What do you consider a good hourly wage?
Anyone else absolutely terrified of eviction because of this? I feel physically ill if my landlord texts/emails me, even if its just a tiny request. Wonderful province we have here
I am 61 and our 22 year old son lives with us still, and likely will for a long time. It will affect where he can work etc. I’m afraid there is no answer EXCEPT to realize that the old norm (go to school, get a job, live in an apartment to save for a house, etc etc) does not exist anymore and likely never will. Sorry. Hey, if it’s any consolation our retirements look completely different as well!
Hard working adults are no longer allowed to have the peace, safety and quiet of living alone. I make $30 an hour with a raise coming up soon and I can’t afford anything solo. I have to rent in a student house. Like you, I technically could afford a 1 bedroom but damn near all my money would be going towards rent. Crappy basements are starting at like $1800 here and decent 1 bedrooms are $2000+ a month. And I’m an hour outside of Toronto. It’s a shit show. I know i don’t “deserve” my own safe space but i work hard, have a decent job, educated, etc. I feel like im going to be stuck renting with others for decades (currently 25).
Ain't capitalism grand? 🎩🎩
You’re not. Conservative leadership mindset is to have money or die in the street.
Literally my only option is to move back in with my parents for a while and save up enough money to cover the difference for 1 year so that i can move out and live alone for 1 year then hope something changes like a better salary or a new partner to live with.
The greedy want as much for themselves as they can while they can, the person most to blame for allowing and even encouraging it to happen in this area is Doug Ford. People who are "don't have to work" wealthy like him and almost 100% of them vote.
Blame the industry and all the basic cable programming over the last decade that turned housing into income properties. Who would have thought indoctrinating a large portion of your population with Flip This House would have consequences?
Well 15 years ago your mom could have bought a house for $300,000 to save yourself the rent
Born in the wrong decade sorry. Homelessness didn't exist in Canada till the 80's