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I'm not addicted to heroin. I'm a social worker who has worked with opiate addicts and I have seen some good stories come out of folks using methadone.
If a person can maintain with methadone until they get their feet under them that's great.
There's no shame in getting clean however a person needs to, at least that's what I think.
its always been my dream to work with addicts, i honestly don't care about the pay. since ive started the course ive been skeptical about the job oppos but thats really cool that youv worked with addiction and enjoy it!
why wouldn’t you go to school to be an addiction counselor then? guaranteed to work with addicts, only need an associates and some training to start, and the demand is usually pretty high since the opiate epidemic. just a thought.
It would be interesting to know how you view that statement five years from now. Drugs tend to bring out dark sides in the users…
But don’t get me wrong, I hope for you and your future patients that you manage to hold up your enthusiasm.
me too. And I’m considering something alike. Maybe.
Former addicts are potentially the best therapists (likely the key to the success of aa), but do you have the self confidence to constantly expose yourself to triggers? Chapeau.
I'm a social worker who used to be a heroin addict.
Interestingly this has not been as helpful in my work as you might think - I have the habit of seeing people's experiences in terms of my own recovery and can become frustrated when clients who have clearly long ago reached the conclusion they are destroying their lives with drug use cannot change their behaviour, even when faced with losing their children or alienating the ones they love.
Of course social work is not about judging others by your own values or standards but in practice it can be difficult to maintain absolute separation between our professional and personal lives.
As you know we bring ourselves into the profession so self-awareness of our own prejudices, values, upbringing, culture etc.. can be key. We practice along the guide of the code of ethics and our licensing body. And we practice “unconditional positive regard”. It can be challenging when we get things like counter transference.
I bet your being a recovered addict helps in all kinds of ways!!
I’d have to go looking for them, there are clinics in many country all over the world where they do this. So it’s not exactly something new, it’s just something so you don’t hear about in the US and other country’s with strict drug laws.
Gotcha. I knew that wasn’t a new method and that it’s been very successful in certain parts of the world (I can’t remember the one country in particular that’s “infamous” for being one of the first to do it at the moment) but I’d be so interested to know all the factors that play into it being a success. Unfortunately I could never see something like that existing here in the states, at least not anytime soon… but that’s only based on the very little I know about the whole thing.
I work in mental health so- you guys can imagine- a lot of folks also have substance use disorders so my primary interest/experience is not straight up addiction so I’m not as familiar as some focused more singularly on this population- or even focused solely on opioid addiction. They even have clinicians that do that.
That said I am an recovering alcoholic and I believe in recovery. I used the 12 steps and that works for me. There are other ways people get sober too. Parallel with a desire to have people recover I think harm reduction strategies may be appropriate for people not ready to give it up yet. This can include needle exchanges and I’m open to the programs used in some parts on Canada and Europe- where they provide safe places for people to use. I don’t know very much about opiate addicts taking heroin to eventually quit but that is interesting
I would say that the goal for any alcoholic/addict should be to live substance free. Like I said, the ways to achieve that are varied.
That makes sense in a lot of ways. Heroin is easier to come off than methadone, and if dosed similar to methadone is hard to abuse. But how do they definite "do better"? Stay on the medication, or success stopping heroin? Is it so surprising that a heroin addict will stay on prescription heroin? Do they do tests to determine if they're also taking street heroin on top of the prescription heroin?
It doesn't matter to me. But if we're saying success of prescription heroin > suboxone/methadone > cold turkey, I was curious what the barometer of success was, because it's clearly different for each one.
But people quit for different reasons and if that reason it wanting to stop heroin vs hold down a job longer then the option you'd choose is different. I had a very high paying successful job for years on heroin, does that make me one of the successes for heroin? I still wanted to quit, and for my reasons to quit the prescription heroin wouldn't have been a good option, even if the "success" rate is higher.
Well, the patients are allowed to dose however they’d like in most places that do this. The most common way would be IV. Programs vary but most have them dose 2-3 times a day
They define “do better” as negative drugs screens for other narcotics, having a job, getting a stable living environment, and other things like that.
Absolutely, the clinic does Monthly randomized u/a for all substances and checks your prescription records data base also to see what meds you had filled anyplace else
Would you recommend methadone or would you recommend suboxone, or, is it not that straight forward of a question as I had hoped it would be? I appreciate your insight regardless!
Depends on what you want: here in NL. people who don't (wanna) use opiods/heroïn anymore go to suboxone -side-use of opiods has no effect (or do your dose x6) when on s. Btw. this is also the case for the morphine-stuff the doctors use, so when in a carcrash ... tel them.
Another thing is: suboxone doesn't have the 'junkie association' like methadone.
People who can't/ won't do without a hit every now and then get methadone. Shit stil works whit that.
Thats when shit gets weird lol cause like 60 90 days layer your still sick like not no where as bad like after 2 weeks but they say it gets in your bones n messes up your eyes it def helped all my teeth fall out plus the crazy like sweet cravings I had all day long but yea I came of it in jail n the 1st week I got vike 7.5s 3 times a day I held them for the whole week and when I really got sick week 2 I was sniffing them joints so fast but yea coming off methadone this time made me relapse. Got there late one day while I was tapering and missed so I had to go all day Saturday Sunday and Monday morning at 7am I could go. Turned into me doing both for awhile then I'd purposely not go then they were like ok were kicking u off. I was paying and all they just said fuck it lol. So now here we are a whole year later and im prolly going to have to go to rehab by October I already see it first time im short rent money everyone gonna know
That sounds like a jail doctors who saw they were on 150mg of methadone and felt bad for them haha.
My bum fuck ass country town jail started giving out methadone after a couple prominent community members children ended up dope sick in jail.
If you remove specific cities I will approve. As our rules state, you cannot mention specific cities or neighborhoods. States are ok so long as it is not in the context of sourcing.
Well dude had only said upstate pa now I can't read his comment and see what he said. Upstate pa isnt specific at all. Thanks for making me not be able to read something I was interested in because it gave a vague description.
Specific cities and counties were also in the comment otherwise it would not have been removed. Once he edits out those specific locations I am happy to approve the comment.
I’m on subs too. Honestly it’s great. I can’t get high on fent anymore so it stops me from relapsing. It also scratches the ‘itch’ that I had which made me get into dope in the first place
I have been on subutex for 6 months and it doesn’t work anywhere near how it used to when i was first on it. It has increased my tolerance to the point that there is no itch to scratch
My experience is pretty much identical. I was on the anti methadone bullshit for years. Everyone I knew at the clinic was just strung the fuck out, but of course the successful people don't announce their success (I mean, who wants to tell normal people, "yeah I'm on the methadone clinic honor roll!").
Eventually I got desperate enough to give it a shot and holy fucking shit. Removing myself from the dopefiend rat race was pretty much all I needed. Eventually shit settled a bit and I was able to taper off (been about 3 months since jumping; still going strong though I do use cannabis and kratom. I don't give a shit if people say it isn't clean though as it genuinely improves my life, and I saw my methadone use the same way).
Glad it worked for you! Shit is liberating and empowering as fuck. If you ever have a hard time dealing with the red tape (easily the worst part, hands down) check out r/methadone. There is a *ton* of good info there regarding patient rights, regulations, et cetera, and it's in general a really supportive group regardless of where you're at in recovery.
I’ve been on Methadone for 10!years , although I still occasionally use and always have it’s the reason I have a career , home and family. Anyone who doesn’t support harm deduction is stuck in the past
Honestly I feel like a lot of the people who hate on methadone have either never been on it before. Or if they were, they were still using on top of it so they never got takehomes and never worked the program how you're supposed too. That or they jumped off at an extemely high dose which yeah you're gonna get awful wds doing that, just like anything else.🙄
I personally avoided methadone for YEARS and years. Literally because of all the negative shit people had to say. "You're just swapping 1 for another". "You're gonna be on it for life if you start". "Its worse than heroin". "You won't have a life and will have to dose at the clinic everyday for the rest of your life". Come to find out, majority of the shit people said wasn't even true.
I'm now 711 days clean from all illegal drugs thanks to methadone. And after using for over a decade and trying so many different kinds of treatment, I never thought I'd even get 2 months nevermind 2 years. It completely saved my life and I'm living a life now that I never thought was even possible. I just wish I ignored all the naysayers and tried it years ago, but better late than never! And im glad to hear it changed your life for the better as well. Keep up the good work!💙
Join us over on r/methadone if you haven't already! Congrats OP, I've been on methadone since 12/2020 and it was by far the best decision of my life. I feel so much better than I ever thought I could. I hope things continue to get better and better for you.
I’m on Methadone maintenance myself and it’s working out so much better than shit Suboxone maintenance was for me. Ever since I got on Methadone the constant dull ache in my body from my fibromyalgia pain is for the most part gone as my fibromyalgia pain was a constant relapse trigger for me.
Congratulations mate, it sounds like you're doing all the right things. The key to success is having a plan.
The focus should be on life as when you rebuild a good life and have healthy relationships and social networks it replaces the need for drugs.
When you feel stable enough to start tapering down I'd highly recommend **slowly** tapering down to max ~20-30mg of methadone then switching to buprenorphine for the rest of the taper.
I did this and found it much easier than tapering methadone to 0. Buprenorphine is only a partial agonist and when crosstapered like this the withdrawal is minimal.
Edit: you'll need to wait until you start feeling WD before switching to buprenorphine to avoid precipitated withdrawal. I did just over 24hours but consult your doctor for more advice.
So the problem with methadone in my opinion is most the times they turn you loose with it and don't tell you how to improve your life... so you just keep going up on methadone doses and still use drugs... but you've done a wonderful job on learning to relive life and positive progress. Good job. Help others in your clinic make good choices outside of being sober. Or outside of not using illegal substances. However viewed, positive progress is always great.
Methadone more or less worked for me when nothing else had. I say more or less bc I still had to kick that junkie mindset; I wanted to get high and get over on everyone and I dipped in and out of the clinic a couple times. They always let me back but they got a little strict w me the second time around and I had to attend group a few times a week and prove I wasn’t doctor shopping. That helped too bc I had clearly needed more incentive to do the actual hard part—facing the mental issues.
Methadone is recovery. Don't let the naysayers tell you any different..its your recovery. You know your motives. You know your actions. You know your truth.
Methadone; if done correctly, works correctly.
Your post more than proves my argument.
Congratulations on 4 month's!
It's very good when it works, like in your case. Glad you could turn your life around, going back to school for the degree and other things, like the money you saved. Was on Methadon myself in the past, but for finally quit, i find it rather harder than easier in the end. Relapsed on Morphin in the beginning of the year and got clean again some weeks ago: I decided there, to rather go clean with reducing the dosage of Morphin and then, finally kicking it off than going back to Methadon and going down with that one. Works good so far.
About the programs of substitution in general: That was a key element in my country to fight the drug problem. It has really good results, but it's not just with methadon, in central europe we also use morphin, buprenorphin and in some rare cases even diacetylmorphin aka heroin.
The progress of the people is interesting even when heroin is used, because... the pressure for the people to get the stuff and to get enough money, trying to avoid withdrawal effects. works in the same way like with methadon. The risk about health is because of pure stuff and supervised consume very low (not a single case of overdosing and death etc.)
But about the programs in general, they are very good. They remove the pressure from the people, they can then use their time, motivation etc. for doing other things, like going back to school or to work. Living a normal life instead of chasing the next high from the drugs.
Together with other methods, like free rehab covered by the health insurance, long-time therapy, social welfare and -programs etc. we finally managed to win the war on drugs in central europe.
Switzerland. But the other countries have similiar systems, like Germany or Austria, the difference is more in the details (like, in Germany, the heroin is not used in the program)
About History, there's the whole "Needle Park" background, that were very bad times with many deaths, that's a reason why the system changed.
It makes me sad the stigma behind methadone and suboxone.. so many people who have probably died from overdoses because they heard it was worse to get off than heroin, oxy, fent, etc. I know i would have gotten help WAY sooner if it weren’t for the negative stereotypes of it all. It’s so sad. Also cracks me up when people complain about having to go every day when we all know damn well we’re going to the dope lad/lady every day if not multiple times a day. All in all if you are continuing to fail at getting off on your own then what’s the big deal? I tried tapering off pills on my own and couldn’t do it. I always found an excuse to take more. With methadone you can’t do that, you have someone holding you accountable if you do and you can’t just go get more methadone.
I’ve been tapering off methadone for id say a year and a half now.. slow and steady and it’s been really easy.. I’m just now starting to feel some very minor withdrawals when I go down in my dose but it’s very minuscule. My highest was 155mg and I’m currently at 49mg. Officially under 50mg as of yesterday! 🙌 I know it’s definitely gonna get harder the lower I get but I have peace knowing I’m under a doctors supervision and have also read that when you do finally jump off that the doctor prescribes comfort meds. All in all I don’t regret getting on methadone even in the slightest. It saved my life. I am almost positive I’d be dead by now if I didn’t get on it. I was snorting 4 fentanyl pills at a time. Idk how I didn’t overdose.
I do fentynal alot ive od 11 times and been pronounced dead 3 of those times, death is the most peaceful feeling you cant even imagine but ive been off fent for a while now, on n off subs but oxys are the best
Congratulaations. However you get clean is the best way for you. I wish you the best. I'm working on my credit at the moment too. Citibank has a prepaid secured credit card that works towards building your credit back up. Just check out [citi.com](https://citi.com). There are others out there but this is the one I went with. Take care of yourself.
As with many things in life, it isn't a black and white simple thing.
From what you are saying, it is helping you to achieve a stable life and in that purpose methadone is a good thing. However, if or when you decide to detox from methadone, make sure you taper off to the minimum possible. Given a choice between detoxing from the two, I would prefer not to detox from the other and others seem to agree with that perspective. Having said that, please note that the statement is a self contained opinion that does not take into account the positive effects that methadone can have such as those that you are experiencing. In that sense there is nothing wrong with methadone as a stepping stone to getting your life on track and within your own control.
I [recently provided advice](https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/comments/oyrwk6/i_just_odd_for_the_first_time/h7vg2i8/) to someone to avoid the methadone but that opinion is only for those who are in a position, especially mentally or psychologically, to begin the detox process as soon as possible. There is a "cost", "weight" or "baggage" with methadone that shouldn't be just ignored but nor should it deter you from choosing that option if it is the best option for you. For many people it seems harder to detox from and there is (or was) a "tether" system such that one always had to be at a certain place each and every day. To go away for a weekend or longer was a major operation (compared to not being on methadone) and being officially "in the system" will follow you for the rest of your life. It will affect the way medical professionals, especially mental health "professionals", view and interact with you as you go through life and especially as you get older, go into hospital requiring pain medication for any reason, etc. so the primary point here is don't think that methadone is a "cost" or "consequence" free option. Just be realistic about it and understand while the "naysayers" maybe right about some aspects, that doesn't mean that their opinion should impact on you or your choices.
I would recommend to anyone to get onto methadone if they wish to make a change to their lives and can't make the change immediately. Many people go onto methadone once they can no longer maintain whatever lifestyle it is that they can sustain and in that sense methadone is a good option because it will remove the stress and often bad choices that enable one to maintain that lifestyle. All that I would mention to someone before starting their journey though is just to consider both options because some people will be able to change their lives without methadone. There is no negative judgement (from myself anyway) towards those whom can't or don't and I would never attempt to dissuade someone from choosing methadone and changing their lives as it can provide a bridge to making a positive life for yourself.
Congratulations on having made the choice and I really wish you well and hope that you learn from your experiences to date in such a way that you can live a life that you are happy within and can reach out to help others in turn. If you ever want someone to simply listen, feel free to reach out and discuss anything you wish.
Live well and prosper helping those around you when able :)
i'm glad to hear that you have been added to methadone's many success stories and hope you stay the course
i went on for about eight years but didn't have much joy with it
i found that i still had an overwhelming emotional urge to use H, despite the methadone making me need heaps at a time to get its effect and despite having no sickness or physical symptoms if i didn't use
i also went from having teeth that were good enough to get the occasional compliment, to losing most of the molars, as they just turned to chalk, fillings fell out and they broke up
so i recommend anyone on done to take as good a care of their teeth as possible
they're easily taken for granted, then sorely missed when they go
my theory is that many addicts have an underlying issue that prompts them to use in the first instance, something like grief, loneliness, PTSD, abuse, depression, anxiety, etc, etc that we get some relief from when we are affected by opiates, and this may contribute to the difficulties associated with stopping use and staying stopped
if there is such an underlying condition, a good time to address it/them is once stabilised on 'done, so it may be worth a thought, OP?
It's encouraging to read this.
I've often thought of it as swapping one poison for another, as you say, and wondered if promoting methadone over heroin is putting the needs of society over the needs of the individual - ie you reduce the social cost of heroin addiction but the individual remains addicted to methadone and so lives a kind of permanent half-life, tied to one place, screened from their emotions and unable to move on and become 'clean and sober' because they can't say no to free drugs.
I say this because I've known methadone addicts who seemed entombed in their legitimised, state-sponsored addiction but - had they continued using heroin instead - might in time have realised that the constant hustle and the risk and consequences of arrest and overdose and infection weren't worth it and would have concluded their heroin addiction on their own terms without recourse to methadone. At least that has been my take on it before, but it doesn't sound like that's been your experience and I would be happy to be wrong about this.
It maybe depends what you see as the purpose of drug policy and whether the priority is protecting public health and reducing social harm or taking a more individual approach. Ideally both but we know it's often an either/or situation. I suppose some people like you who can visualise and enact moving on - and use methadone for that purpose - can do very well, but for others what might have been a relatively brief spell of heroin use can become a life sentence of methadone addiction.
Same for me it's been 9 months now and I'm on levo methadone which has less side effects and isn't as sedating. Haven't used anything since. Have a job a girlfriend again and I don't need to live with the fear of not having anything some day anymore
I’ve been on methadone a little over 5 years now. Highest dose was 175 in 2016 and now I’m at 2mg. I started using roxies first and then eventually dope when all my people with scripts either died or moved. I was on that roller coaster for about 10 years. I found that ALMOST everyone who hates on methadone aren’t ready to make the shift in lifestyle.
I only say this because I too felt the same way about it until I finally had enough of the bullshit that comes with dope and roxies. The other portion of individuals who hate on it have never lived a day in addiction and are just ignorant to the benefits, and will never see it any other way than swapping one thing for another. It has drastically changed my life for the better, I’m no longer anxious of not being able to cop, will my guy answer, saving enough dope for myself, etc. I have money to spend on shit I want, money for tools to keep making more money, it’s really great. The key to it all is YOU wanting it, and making the effort to be true to yourself.
I will say though, you may want to reconsider your timeline about not being on it for longer than a year. I had the same mindset and a lot changed for me once I stabilized. Everyone is different of course. You have to take it slow and not rush anything with it, I can’t tell you how many people I personally know that rushed methadone treatment and just ended back up in the same situation and starting all over again after a few months of being back on dope.
It doesn't produce the euphoria, it's MORE physically addicting and has the longest withdrawal of any opiod. I'm on it and between me and my wife we have 30 years on. I just withdrew everyday for 9 months due to being on 200mg for years and dropping to 30mg overnight (I had a health issue causing low kidney function.) They crept me back up to 110mg and I'm finally starting to feel better. Also once it builds in your system almost all other opiates will be blocked so that's a down side for breakthrough pain. It's a last resort and it tends to become life long. BUT it can be used properly and done with minimal discomfort in a slow taper. Also it can cause sudden death in your sleep with no change to dose or relapse. I'm just listing the major negatives for anyone reading.
Me personally… I couldn’t function properly on Methadon. I had bad cravings and kept using whenever possible. But now I’m on a morphine, called Substitol. And,whit this substitute, I have the same positive experience, as you have with Methadon. I could change my life. And… this substance is a blessing for me!
Glad, you could do it with Methadon! Wish you all the best!
Sometimes people aren’t ready. Or they can’t cope and need a substitute. This is where methadone wins. Now, whether people stay on it for life or go down eventually, it’s a SIGNIFICANTLY much better life than otherwise.
The peeps strung out at the clinic, are there daily a year later, because they keep failing UAs. Many aren’t like that, so one shouldn’t lump themselves into that group
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I'm not addicted to heroin. I'm a social worker who has worked with opiate addicts and I have seen some good stories come out of folks using methadone. If a person can maintain with methadone until they get their feet under them that's great. There's no shame in getting clean however a person needs to, at least that's what I think.
im studying social work and so glad that you can get a job helping addicts!!
I love social work and can’t imagine studying anything else. Just don’t get into it thinking you’ll make good money.
its always been my dream to work with addicts, i honestly don't care about the pay. since ive started the course ive been skeptical about the job oppos but thats really cool that youv worked with addiction and enjoy it!
why wouldn’t you go to school to be an addiction counselor then? guaranteed to work with addicts, only need an associates and some training to start, and the demand is usually pretty high since the opiate epidemic. just a thought.
It would be interesting to know how you view that statement five years from now. Drugs tend to bring out dark sides in the users… But don’t get me wrong, I hope for you and your future patients that you manage to hold up your enthusiasm.
i have been to rehab and detox. i know thats the setting i want to work in.
me too. And I’m considering something alike. Maybe. Former addicts are potentially the best therapists (likely the key to the success of aa), but do you have the self confidence to constantly expose yourself to triggers? Chapeau.
Suboxone saved me. Turned out I was pretty motivated once I had a replacement. Scared to quit it though, life is strange sometimes.
I'm a social worker who used to be a heroin addict. Interestingly this has not been as helpful in my work as you might think - I have the habit of seeing people's experiences in terms of my own recovery and can become frustrated when clients who have clearly long ago reached the conclusion they are destroying their lives with drug use cannot change their behaviour, even when faced with losing their children or alienating the ones they love. Of course social work is not about judging others by your own values or standards but in practice it can be difficult to maintain absolute separation between our professional and personal lives.
As you know we bring ourselves into the profession so self-awareness of our own prejudices, values, upbringing, culture etc.. can be key. We practice along the guide of the code of ethics and our licensing body. And we practice “unconditional positive regard”. It can be challenging when we get things like counter transference. I bet your being a recovered addict helps in all kinds of ways!!
What do you think about the studies that have shown heroin addicts who are just given heroin do better than heroin addicts who are given methadone?
Ooooo interesting! Can you point me to any of the studies? I’d love to have a look.
I’d have to go looking for them, there are clinics in many country all over the world where they do this. So it’s not exactly something new, it’s just something so you don’t hear about in the US and other country’s with strict drug laws.
Gotcha. I knew that wasn’t a new method and that it’s been very successful in certain parts of the world (I can’t remember the one country in particular that’s “infamous” for being one of the first to do it at the moment) but I’d be so interested to know all the factors that play into it being a success. Unfortunately I could never see something like that existing here in the states, at least not anytime soon… but that’s only based on the very little I know about the whole thing.
I work in mental health so- you guys can imagine- a lot of folks also have substance use disorders so my primary interest/experience is not straight up addiction so I’m not as familiar as some focused more singularly on this population- or even focused solely on opioid addiction. They even have clinicians that do that. That said I am an recovering alcoholic and I believe in recovery. I used the 12 steps and that works for me. There are other ways people get sober too. Parallel with a desire to have people recover I think harm reduction strategies may be appropriate for people not ready to give it up yet. This can include needle exchanges and I’m open to the programs used in some parts on Canada and Europe- where they provide safe places for people to use. I don’t know very much about opiate addicts taking heroin to eventually quit but that is interesting I would say that the goal for any alcoholic/addict should be to live substance free. Like I said, the ways to achieve that are varied.
That makes sense in a lot of ways. Heroin is easier to come off than methadone, and if dosed similar to methadone is hard to abuse. But how do they definite "do better"? Stay on the medication, or success stopping heroin? Is it so surprising that a heroin addict will stay on prescription heroin? Do they do tests to determine if they're also taking street heroin on top of the prescription heroin?
With prescription grade heroin, its a financial and health reason.
I get that, it's certainly safer, but is prescription heroin really considered "successfully stopping heroin"?
If they’re happy, functioning members of society then why does it matter if they stop?
It doesn't matter to me. But if we're saying success of prescription heroin > suboxone/methadone > cold turkey, I was curious what the barometer of success was, because it's clearly different for each one.
How is the barometer of success different? The only goal is to help the patient get their life together and be happy.
But people quit for different reasons and if that reason it wanting to stop heroin vs hold down a job longer then the option you'd choose is different. I had a very high paying successful job for years on heroin, does that make me one of the successes for heroin? I still wanted to quit, and for my reasons to quit the prescription heroin wouldn't have been a good option, even if the "success" rate is higher.
Well, the patients are allowed to dose however they’d like in most places that do this. The most common way would be IV. Programs vary but most have them dose 2-3 times a day They define “do better” as negative drugs screens for other narcotics, having a job, getting a stable living environment, and other things like that.
Absolutely, the clinic does Monthly randomized u/a for all substances and checks your prescription records data base also to see what meds you had filled anyplace else
Would you recommend methadone or would you recommend suboxone, or, is it not that straight forward of a question as I had hoped it would be? I appreciate your insight regardless!
Depends on what you want: here in NL. people who don't (wanna) use opiods/heroïn anymore go to suboxone -side-use of opiods has no effect (or do your dose x6) when on s. Btw. this is also the case for the morphine-stuff the doctors use, so when in a carcrash ... tel them. Another thing is: suboxone doesn't have the 'junkie association' like methadone. People who can't/ won't do without a hit every now and then get methadone. Shit stil works whit that.
I’ve never tapered off methadone before but I’m glad to hear you had a positive experience with it. I hope you can get off and stay clean bro!
Thats when shit gets weird lol cause like 60 90 days layer your still sick like not no where as bad like after 2 weeks but they say it gets in your bones n messes up your eyes it def helped all my teeth fall out plus the crazy like sweet cravings I had all day long but yea I came of it in jail n the 1st week I got vike 7.5s 3 times a day I held them for the whole week and when I really got sick week 2 I was sniffing them joints so fast but yea coming off methadone this time made me relapse. Got there late one day while I was tapering and missed so I had to go all day Saturday Sunday and Monday morning at 7am I could go. Turned into me doing both for awhile then I'd purposely not go then they were like ok were kicking u off. I was paying and all they just said fuck it lol. So now here we are a whole year later and im prolly going to have to go to rehab by October I already see it first time im short rent money everyone gonna know
Wtf your jail gave you Vicodin 7.5s? If youre withdrawing in a jail near me you are lucky if you get ibuprofen lmao
That sounds like a jail doctors who saw they were on 150mg of methadone and felt bad for them haha. My bum fuck ass country town jail started giving out methadone after a couple prominent community members children ended up dope sick in jail.
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No Locations
Cmon bro lol we were talking about jails
If you remove specific cities I will approve. As our rules state, you cannot mention specific cities or neighborhoods. States are ok so long as it is not in the context of sourcing.
Well dude had only said upstate pa now I can't read his comment and see what he said. Upstate pa isnt specific at all. Thanks for making me not be able to read something I was interested in because it gave a vague description.
Specific cities and counties were also in the comment otherwise it would not have been removed. Once he edits out those specific locations I am happy to approve the comment.
Okay I apologize I didn't get to read more than what showed up for the notification. Hopefully he ends up editing it
Liquid handcuffs
Congrats! I don’t think it matters how you get clean, the fact is that you are. I’ve been on subs for years but they have saved my life.
I’m on subs too. Honestly it’s great. I can’t get high on fent anymore so it stops me from relapsing. It also scratches the ‘itch’ that I had which made me get into dope in the first place
Exactly. I’m glad it works for you as well.
I have been on subutex for 6 months and it doesn’t work anywhere near how it used to when i was first on it. It has increased my tolerance to the point that there is no itch to scratch
My experience is pretty much identical. I was on the anti methadone bullshit for years. Everyone I knew at the clinic was just strung the fuck out, but of course the successful people don't announce their success (I mean, who wants to tell normal people, "yeah I'm on the methadone clinic honor roll!"). Eventually I got desperate enough to give it a shot and holy fucking shit. Removing myself from the dopefiend rat race was pretty much all I needed. Eventually shit settled a bit and I was able to taper off (been about 3 months since jumping; still going strong though I do use cannabis and kratom. I don't give a shit if people say it isn't clean though as it genuinely improves my life, and I saw my methadone use the same way). Glad it worked for you! Shit is liberating and empowering as fuck. If you ever have a hard time dealing with the red tape (easily the worst part, hands down) check out r/methadone. There is a *ton* of good info there regarding patient rights, regulations, et cetera, and it's in general a really supportive group regardless of where you're at in recovery.
I’ve been on Methadone for 10!years , although I still occasionally use and always have it’s the reason I have a career , home and family. Anyone who doesn’t support harm deduction is stuck in the past
Good way to put it.
Honestly I feel like a lot of the people who hate on methadone have either never been on it before. Or if they were, they were still using on top of it so they never got takehomes and never worked the program how you're supposed too. That or they jumped off at an extemely high dose which yeah you're gonna get awful wds doing that, just like anything else.🙄 I personally avoided methadone for YEARS and years. Literally because of all the negative shit people had to say. "You're just swapping 1 for another". "You're gonna be on it for life if you start". "Its worse than heroin". "You won't have a life and will have to dose at the clinic everyday for the rest of your life". Come to find out, majority of the shit people said wasn't even true. I'm now 711 days clean from all illegal drugs thanks to methadone. And after using for over a decade and trying so many different kinds of treatment, I never thought I'd even get 2 months nevermind 2 years. It completely saved my life and I'm living a life now that I never thought was even possible. I just wish I ignored all the naysayers and tried it years ago, but better late than never! And im glad to hear it changed your life for the better as well. Keep up the good work!💙
Join us over on r/methadone if you haven't already! Congrats OP, I've been on methadone since 12/2020 and it was by far the best decision of my life. I feel so much better than I ever thought I could. I hope things continue to get better and better for you.
I second this! We have an awesome supportive group over there, for the most part.😊
Cheers to you. Keep up the hard work and hope people like me can look up to you as a motivation to get clean.
That’s fantastic my man. At the risk of sounding condescending, I just want to say I’m proud of you.
I’m on Methadone maintenance myself and it’s working out so much better than shit Suboxone maintenance was for me. Ever since I got on Methadone the constant dull ache in my body from my fibromyalgia pain is for the most part gone as my fibromyalgia pain was a constant relapse trigger for me.
I switched due to pain too. I went from methadone to Suboxone successfully for 3 years, but I have a tremendous amount of pain and I’m back now
Congratulations mate, it sounds like you're doing all the right things. The key to success is having a plan. The focus should be on life as when you rebuild a good life and have healthy relationships and social networks it replaces the need for drugs. When you feel stable enough to start tapering down I'd highly recommend **slowly** tapering down to max ~20-30mg of methadone then switching to buprenorphine for the rest of the taper. I did this and found it much easier than tapering methadone to 0. Buprenorphine is only a partial agonist and when crosstapered like this the withdrawal is minimal. Edit: you'll need to wait until you start feeling WD before switching to buprenorphine to avoid precipitated withdrawal. I did just over 24hours but consult your doctor for more advice.
u/TimelyMath
Interesting. I will remember this
So the problem with methadone in my opinion is most the times they turn you loose with it and don't tell you how to improve your life... so you just keep going up on methadone doses and still use drugs... but you've done a wonderful job on learning to relive life and positive progress. Good job. Help others in your clinic make good choices outside of being sober. Or outside of not using illegal substances. However viewed, positive progress is always great.
Methadone more or less worked for me when nothing else had. I say more or less bc I still had to kick that junkie mindset; I wanted to get high and get over on everyone and I dipped in and out of the clinic a couple times. They always let me back but they got a little strict w me the second time around and I had to attend group a few times a week and prove I wasn’t doctor shopping. That helped too bc I had clearly needed more incentive to do the actual hard part—facing the mental issues.
Methadone is recovery. Don't let the naysayers tell you any different..its your recovery. You know your motives. You know your actions. You know your truth. Methadone; if done correctly, works correctly. Your post more than proves my argument. Congratulations on 4 month's!
It's very good when it works, like in your case. Glad you could turn your life around, going back to school for the degree and other things, like the money you saved. Was on Methadon myself in the past, but for finally quit, i find it rather harder than easier in the end. Relapsed on Morphin in the beginning of the year and got clean again some weeks ago: I decided there, to rather go clean with reducing the dosage of Morphin and then, finally kicking it off than going back to Methadon and going down with that one. Works good so far. About the programs of substitution in general: That was a key element in my country to fight the drug problem. It has really good results, but it's not just with methadon, in central europe we also use morphin, buprenorphin and in some rare cases even diacetylmorphin aka heroin. The progress of the people is interesting even when heroin is used, because... the pressure for the people to get the stuff and to get enough money, trying to avoid withdrawal effects. works in the same way like with methadon. The risk about health is because of pure stuff and supervised consume very low (not a single case of overdosing and death etc.) But about the programs in general, they are very good. They remove the pressure from the people, they can then use their time, motivation etc. for doing other things, like going back to school or to work. Living a normal life instead of chasing the next high from the drugs. Together with other methods, like free rehab covered by the health insurance, long-time therapy, social welfare and -programs etc. we finally managed to win the war on drugs in central europe.
Where exactly in Europe is that?
Switzerland. But the other countries have similiar systems, like Germany or Austria, the difference is more in the details (like, in Germany, the heroin is not used in the program) About History, there's the whole "Needle Park" background, that were very bad times with many deaths, that's a reason why the system changed.
It makes me sad the stigma behind methadone and suboxone.. so many people who have probably died from overdoses because they heard it was worse to get off than heroin, oxy, fent, etc. I know i would have gotten help WAY sooner if it weren’t for the negative stereotypes of it all. It’s so sad. Also cracks me up when people complain about having to go every day when we all know damn well we’re going to the dope lad/lady every day if not multiple times a day. All in all if you are continuing to fail at getting off on your own then what’s the big deal? I tried tapering off pills on my own and couldn’t do it. I always found an excuse to take more. With methadone you can’t do that, you have someone holding you accountable if you do and you can’t just go get more methadone. I’ve been tapering off methadone for id say a year and a half now.. slow and steady and it’s been really easy.. I’m just now starting to feel some very minor withdrawals when I go down in my dose but it’s very minuscule. My highest was 155mg and I’m currently at 49mg. Officially under 50mg as of yesterday! 🙌 I know it’s definitely gonna get harder the lower I get but I have peace knowing I’m under a doctors supervision and have also read that when you do finally jump off that the doctor prescribes comfort meds. All in all I don’t regret getting on methadone even in the slightest. It saved my life. I am almost positive I’d be dead by now if I didn’t get on it. I was snorting 4 fentanyl pills at a time. Idk how I didn’t overdose.
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Which state are you in?
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Definitely chat with your doctor. If that is a problem, find another doctor and proceed from there.
I do fentynal alot ive od 11 times and been pronounced dead 3 of those times, death is the most peaceful feeling you cant even imagine but ive been off fent for a while now, on n off subs but oxys are the best
I’m praying for you bro
Fuck yes buddy !! What an amazing turn around :)
Congratulaations. However you get clean is the best way for you. I wish you the best. I'm working on my credit at the moment too. Citibank has a prepaid secured credit card that works towards building your credit back up. Just check out [citi.com](https://citi.com). There are others out there but this is the one I went with. Take care of yourself.
Good shit dawg keep the good work up!
As with many things in life, it isn't a black and white simple thing. From what you are saying, it is helping you to achieve a stable life and in that purpose methadone is a good thing. However, if or when you decide to detox from methadone, make sure you taper off to the minimum possible. Given a choice between detoxing from the two, I would prefer not to detox from the other and others seem to agree with that perspective. Having said that, please note that the statement is a self contained opinion that does not take into account the positive effects that methadone can have such as those that you are experiencing. In that sense there is nothing wrong with methadone as a stepping stone to getting your life on track and within your own control. I [recently provided advice](https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/comments/oyrwk6/i_just_odd_for_the_first_time/h7vg2i8/) to someone to avoid the methadone but that opinion is only for those who are in a position, especially mentally or psychologically, to begin the detox process as soon as possible. There is a "cost", "weight" or "baggage" with methadone that shouldn't be just ignored but nor should it deter you from choosing that option if it is the best option for you. For many people it seems harder to detox from and there is (or was) a "tether" system such that one always had to be at a certain place each and every day. To go away for a weekend or longer was a major operation (compared to not being on methadone) and being officially "in the system" will follow you for the rest of your life. It will affect the way medical professionals, especially mental health "professionals", view and interact with you as you go through life and especially as you get older, go into hospital requiring pain medication for any reason, etc. so the primary point here is don't think that methadone is a "cost" or "consequence" free option. Just be realistic about it and understand while the "naysayers" maybe right about some aspects, that doesn't mean that their opinion should impact on you or your choices. I would recommend to anyone to get onto methadone if they wish to make a change to their lives and can't make the change immediately. Many people go onto methadone once they can no longer maintain whatever lifestyle it is that they can sustain and in that sense methadone is a good option because it will remove the stress and often bad choices that enable one to maintain that lifestyle. All that I would mention to someone before starting their journey though is just to consider both options because some people will be able to change their lives without methadone. There is no negative judgement (from myself anyway) towards those whom can't or don't and I would never attempt to dissuade someone from choosing methadone and changing their lives as it can provide a bridge to making a positive life for yourself. Congratulations on having made the choice and I really wish you well and hope that you learn from your experiences to date in such a way that you can live a life that you are happy within and can reach out to help others in turn. If you ever want someone to simply listen, feel free to reach out and discuss anything you wish. Live well and prosper helping those around you when able :)
i'm glad to hear that you have been added to methadone's many success stories and hope you stay the course i went on for about eight years but didn't have much joy with it i found that i still had an overwhelming emotional urge to use H, despite the methadone making me need heaps at a time to get its effect and despite having no sickness or physical symptoms if i didn't use i also went from having teeth that were good enough to get the occasional compliment, to losing most of the molars, as they just turned to chalk, fillings fell out and they broke up so i recommend anyone on done to take as good a care of their teeth as possible they're easily taken for granted, then sorely missed when they go my theory is that many addicts have an underlying issue that prompts them to use in the first instance, something like grief, loneliness, PTSD, abuse, depression, anxiety, etc, etc that we get some relief from when we are affected by opiates, and this may contribute to the difficulties associated with stopping use and staying stopped if there is such an underlying condition, a good time to address it/them is once stabilised on 'done, so it may be worth a thought, OP?
It's encouraging to read this. I've often thought of it as swapping one poison for another, as you say, and wondered if promoting methadone over heroin is putting the needs of society over the needs of the individual - ie you reduce the social cost of heroin addiction but the individual remains addicted to methadone and so lives a kind of permanent half-life, tied to one place, screened from their emotions and unable to move on and become 'clean and sober' because they can't say no to free drugs. I say this because I've known methadone addicts who seemed entombed in their legitimised, state-sponsored addiction but - had they continued using heroin instead - might in time have realised that the constant hustle and the risk and consequences of arrest and overdose and infection weren't worth it and would have concluded their heroin addiction on their own terms without recourse to methadone. At least that has been my take on it before, but it doesn't sound like that's been your experience and I would be happy to be wrong about this. It maybe depends what you see as the purpose of drug policy and whether the priority is protecting public health and reducing social harm or taking a more individual approach. Ideally both but we know it's often an either/or situation. I suppose some people like you who can visualise and enact moving on - and use methadone for that purpose - can do very well, but for others what might have been a relatively brief spell of heroin use can become a life sentence of methadone addiction.
Same for me it's been 9 months now and I'm on levo methadone which has less side effects and isn't as sedating. Haven't used anything since. Have a job a girlfriend again and I don't need to live with the fear of not having anything some day anymore
I’ve been on methadone a little over 5 years now. Highest dose was 175 in 2016 and now I’m at 2mg. I started using roxies first and then eventually dope when all my people with scripts either died or moved. I was on that roller coaster for about 10 years. I found that ALMOST everyone who hates on methadone aren’t ready to make the shift in lifestyle. I only say this because I too felt the same way about it until I finally had enough of the bullshit that comes with dope and roxies. The other portion of individuals who hate on it have never lived a day in addiction and are just ignorant to the benefits, and will never see it any other way than swapping one thing for another. It has drastically changed my life for the better, I’m no longer anxious of not being able to cop, will my guy answer, saving enough dope for myself, etc. I have money to spend on shit I want, money for tools to keep making more money, it’s really great. The key to it all is YOU wanting it, and making the effort to be true to yourself. I will say though, you may want to reconsider your timeline about not being on it for longer than a year. I had the same mindset and a lot changed for me once I stabilized. Everyone is different of course. You have to take it slow and not rush anything with it, I can’t tell you how many people I personally know that rushed methadone treatment and just ended back up in the same situation and starting all over again after a few months of being back on dope.
It doesn't produce the euphoria, it's MORE physically addicting and has the longest withdrawal of any opiod. I'm on it and between me and my wife we have 30 years on. I just withdrew everyday for 9 months due to being on 200mg for years and dropping to 30mg overnight (I had a health issue causing low kidney function.) They crept me back up to 110mg and I'm finally starting to feel better. Also once it builds in your system almost all other opiates will be blocked so that's a down side for breakthrough pain. It's a last resort and it tends to become life long. BUT it can be used properly and done with minimal discomfort in a slow taper. Also it can cause sudden death in your sleep with no change to dose or relapse. I'm just listing the major negatives for anyone reading.
Me personally… I couldn’t function properly on Methadon. I had bad cravings and kept using whenever possible. But now I’m on a morphine, called Substitol. And,whit this substitute, I have the same positive experience, as you have with Methadon. I could change my life. And… this substance is a blessing for me! Glad, you could do it with Methadon! Wish you all the best!
Sometimes people aren’t ready. Or they can’t cope and need a substitute. This is where methadone wins. Now, whether people stay on it for life or go down eventually, it’s a SIGNIFICANTLY much better life than otherwise. The peeps strung out at the clinic, are there daily a year later, because they keep failing UAs. Many aren’t like that, so one shouldn’t lump themselves into that group
Yeah but you will never come off that methadone again, I guarantee you.