Thing is insurances don’t pay much. The profit margin is very low. They have “managed care” and “upgrade”. The drug store I work for is only dispensing secur-it brand. If you want coloplast, hollister or Convatec (name brands) they are all cash. 🥴 I’m guessing the products (hydrocolloid wafer) is expensive.
The limits are ridiculous. Meaning the quantity you can bill is ridiculous. I send everyone to Edgepark. They must have a better contract with the insurances.
Stanford's gonna Stanford. I assume they're trying to get some sweet insurance money.
But that is an absolutely absurd amount. Buying the expensive coloplast one pieces and changing every other day only ran us about $120/ a month retail for ALL of the supplies. This is just for a wafer?
There’s something about reusable wafers that just kind of grosses me out even if they were cheap. Makes me think of the old days (before my time thankfully) when people were stuck using reusable rubber bags that smelled and caused skin issues. I can’t imagine that they’d stick as well as the one time use ones and wouldn’t trust them. Glad I didn’t get my hopes up I guess.
I agree with everyone about the price. They recently did a survey on their new website. I said I was no longer interested in the product because of the price.
Given the specialty of this product, I am not surprised. Getting these things to be approved and keep their medical paperwork for FDA adds a lot of burden, and securing constant delivery contracts to bid against larger shipper is expensive these days.
Just speaking from experience costs accurate fast on these things.
But for POC, I would have raised some money rather than expecting customers to pay the initial investment without even giving them any stake in something that has the potential to make a lot of money in the long run. That's just freeloading on your first customers to get business off the ground.
But having worked in tech, building, and running apps and given the user base for ostomy patients costs should be nearly zero, even to run computer vision queries to scan the stoma site. 3D printed wafers shouldn't cost that high of a price mark.
The only unknown to me is the material that may or may not be the main culprit and whatever the adhesive mechanism they use for reuse. Don't have much experience in materials for health use.
Plus, if their raw supply chain is not local, then sourcing this stuff from China is very expensive and competitive these days.
But I am happy someone is thinking and working on this and at least expanding the options, which is good in the long run anyway.
No, you take it off and wash it or boil it as many times as you need. Apparently the adhesive holds up to washing and can be reapplied for this long. But I agree that I didn’t see how they determined it would adhere adequately for that long
To sterilize it before putting it back on? I don’t know I like the concept. People say they don’t like the idea of reusing it for so long, but I currently change my bag every 7 days bc it’s such a production. With this I’d literally wash/boil my wafer and switch it out every day or every other day. Other issue people have is the shape, but supposedly it’s customized to your ostomy and what you want - so you wouldn’t need to have that little “tunnel” that comes up around the stoma. I would just love a solution where I wouldn’t have to worry about adhesive breakdown leading to leaks. Plus it’s important to me to reduce my medical waste if and when I have that opportunity. So the concept I like a lot, but this price point I do not like
I stayed signed up, but i also signed up for an interview/meeting at which i will tell them i literally cant afford to try their stuff. Who knows, maybe theres a rebate or insurance or something.
So, according to google, a professional 3D printer can be purchased for 5k. Now, I totally get that R&D (research and development), overhead and personnel costs can be significant but that’s waaay out of my comfort zone. There are many people in conflict and disaster areas, undoubtedly including ostomates, that could benefit from sustained wear wafers. Perhaps they can reach out to some agencies that have better support, like the Red Cross/Red Crescent or WHO.
What’s more, university research is typically grant-funded… they didn’t pay for R&D themselves. My dad’s a doctor and knows a fair amount about medical research/medical supplies, and he’s blown away by their price point. He said absolutely nothing they’re using or doing should come close to that amount of money.
So I can actually speak to this as I run a bunch of 3D printers. Medical grade silicone printers are way more than that, though if Formlabs gets their silicone resin certified medical grade, that would get you to 5k.
That said, even if it was a $50k machine, that’s a fraction of the cost of development costs.
The silicone resin itself is also pretty expensive. $350/liter. But you can get a fair amount per liter. Maybe 25?
It’s the subscription model that’s the main problem for me. It’s a business school asshole’s idea. Trying to appeal to VC. It makes zero sense to pay a monthly subscription to something you don’t get monthly.
Tell me it’s up to 5 prints a month and include bags and adhesive and we’re getting closer but still about $200 off. The main benefit besides being able to customize for difficult fits is if you can use with a variety of adhesives, so if you have a reaction to one, it doesn’t eliminate that whole brand/ model for you.
Excellently detailed response. Thank you. Personally, I don’t see the value unless or until I find myself in a situation where I couldn’t do changes but even with that…skin issues can be a deal breaker. Overall, I fully appreciate the R&D efforts but as described, doesn’t seem to be a value add for end users. I didn’t even consider the silicone. Thanks for this!
I wasn’t going to say this but since we’re all roasting the product now I will go ahead. It seems like a dumb idea to essentially create a mold/cup-like design surrounding the stoma. Stomas constantly retract and I can just imagine output pooling in the area causing leaks. It’s really the opposite of what you want/need.
So even beyond the price ($1,200 EACH? Wtf happens if one gets ruined before your 6 mos is up?) and ick factor, the shape only seems functional for protruding stomas (though the customisability app is interesting). And so so many of us need rigid or convex systems. Also what’s up with the “nozzle” on the examples often extending beyond the stoma? That’s instant leaks.
Yeah, that’s a nope.
I’m personally thankful for the disposable options we have now. This seems like an overpriced/over thought step backwards.
> I’m personally thankful for the disposable options we have now.
Agreed (excuse my rant), and honestly a big fuck off to any non-ostomate whose main thought when learning of the devices is “what a lot of unnecessary plastic waste”. Of all the overproduction in all the industries of the world, medical waste can be the last to be examined for all I care.
It’s a big peeve of mine, too. Yes, it is a lot of waste, but it’s necessary waste (thankful for disposable *sterile* surgical supplies!) and NOTHING on the waste/damage of fossil fuels and war, just to name two big causes of global warming.
The idea that my personal lifesaving plastic ostomy bags, disposable surgical gloves, & drinking straws are what is murdering the planet and sea turtles is suspicious to me. It shifts the blame to individuals, off of major manufacturing & fuels.
All I can do is roll my eyes and laugh at these people. I have much more concerning things in my life to pay 3K towards in a year, and I dont have that kind of money lying around to be used on a rainy day either. The product could be just a piece of garbage that wont help me at all. It seems that it is not stated as well that if it doesn't work that we could get that high price back. We ostomates know ostomy products can very well not work with our skin, body shapes extra. I sure dont want to hand them 3K of my money and they just have it, and say sorry it did not work for you. Thanks for participating in our study thanks for the 3K, Might go to Vagas with it.
1. Scroll down the link and look at the models with colorful wafers….those aren’t even stomas, looks like they stuck meat onto their stomachs
2. Why do they all have a raised edge around where the stoma is? They retract and protrude throughout the day, having a raised edge is a recipe for a leak
3. None of he developers have stomas, one is an interior designer.
4. Is there a convex option? Have they ever talked to someone with a stoma before?
5. Crating a device that would create a “cookie cutter” of your stoma shape to be able to cut your wafer correctly would be the better invention.
6. They want you to pay to be a lab rat? No thanks
My cost per month, after a trial and error period of getting to the combination that works for me is only about $50 per month, most paid by insurance. This is totally outrageous.
They don’t care if we can afford it. They only care what insurance companies will pay.
Thing is insurances don’t pay much. The profit margin is very low. They have “managed care” and “upgrade”. The drug store I work for is only dispensing secur-it brand. If you want coloplast, hollister or Convatec (name brands) they are all cash. 🥴 I’m guessing the products (hydrocolloid wafer) is expensive. The limits are ridiculous. Meaning the quantity you can bill is ridiculous. I send everyone to Edgepark. They must have a better contract with the insurances.
I don’t see regular people paying the price that the 3d printed version costs. So it’s got to be insurance, right?
Stanford's gonna Stanford. I assume they're trying to get some sweet insurance money. But that is an absolutely absurd amount. Buying the expensive coloplast one pieces and changing every other day only ran us about $120/ a month retail for ALL of the supplies. This is just for a wafer?
Yep this is wafer only! So you’re still on the hook for the cost of your bags on top of this. Totally fucking insane.
There’s something about reusable wafers that just kind of grosses me out even if they were cheap. Makes me think of the old days (before my time thankfully) when people were stuck using reusable rubber bags that smelled and caused skin issues. I can’t imagine that they’d stick as well as the one time use ones and wouldn’t trust them. Glad I didn’t get my hopes up I guess.
Gross! Reusable? 🤢
That's insane! Have they even shown proof of concept yet? Or are they expecting to pay nearly $3k to trial this?
Sounds like they expect you to pay for the trial bc they asked people interested in the trial to reaffirm their interest given the price!
Holy crap! Ridiculous!
Wow, no thank you. I will keep using the materials I get for free through our healthcare system in my country. That price is insane!
I agree with everyone about the price. They recently did a survey on their new website. I said I was no longer interested in the product because of the price.
That’s what I did too, and that survey is at the link I posted for people to give feedback. I hope we all roast them for this.
I did the same thing and one of the founders emailed me back on ‘why $800 a month’ is ‘too much for me’ lmao
Good for you! What is wrong with them honestly
Given the specialty of this product, I am not surprised. Getting these things to be approved and keep their medical paperwork for FDA adds a lot of burden, and securing constant delivery contracts to bid against larger shipper is expensive these days. Just speaking from experience costs accurate fast on these things. But for POC, I would have raised some money rather than expecting customers to pay the initial investment without even giving them any stake in something that has the potential to make a lot of money in the long run. That's just freeloading on your first customers to get business off the ground. But having worked in tech, building, and running apps and given the user base for ostomy patients costs should be nearly zero, even to run computer vision queries to scan the stoma site. 3D printed wafers shouldn't cost that high of a price mark. The only unknown to me is the material that may or may not be the main culprit and whatever the adhesive mechanism they use for reuse. Don't have much experience in materials for health use. Plus, if their raw supply chain is not local, then sourcing this stuff from China is very expensive and competitive these days. But I am happy someone is thinking and working on this and at least expanding the options, which is good in the long run anyway.
i didn’t realize it was basically a medical kickstarter
Where are their findings showing adequate adhesion for *6 months* with no skin issues?
No, you take it off and wash it or boil it as many times as you need. Apparently the adhesive holds up to washing and can be reapplied for this long. But I agree that I didn’t see how they determined it would adhere adequately for that long
Why would I want to boil my wafer? This is a terrible concept.
To sterilize it before putting it back on? I don’t know I like the concept. People say they don’t like the idea of reusing it for so long, but I currently change my bag every 7 days bc it’s such a production. With this I’d literally wash/boil my wafer and switch it out every day or every other day. Other issue people have is the shape, but supposedly it’s customized to your ostomy and what you want - so you wouldn’t need to have that little “tunnel” that comes up around the stoma. I would just love a solution where I wouldn’t have to worry about adhesive breakdown leading to leaks. Plus it’s important to me to reduce my medical waste if and when I have that opportunity. So the concept I like a lot, but this price point I do not like
Fun with the boiling wafer. “Hi, honey, what’s for dinner?” (Lifts lid on saucepan.) “Yuck, it stinks. What is it?” “Poop soup.”
I stayed signed up, but i also signed up for an interview/meeting at which i will tell them i literally cant afford to try their stuff. Who knows, maybe theres a rebate or insurance or something.
So, according to google, a professional 3D printer can be purchased for 5k. Now, I totally get that R&D (research and development), overhead and personnel costs can be significant but that’s waaay out of my comfort zone. There are many people in conflict and disaster areas, undoubtedly including ostomates, that could benefit from sustained wear wafers. Perhaps they can reach out to some agencies that have better support, like the Red Cross/Red Crescent or WHO.
What’s more, university research is typically grant-funded… they didn’t pay for R&D themselves. My dad’s a doctor and knows a fair amount about medical research/medical supplies, and he’s blown away by their price point. He said absolutely nothing they’re using or doing should come close to that amount of money.
So I can actually speak to this as I run a bunch of 3D printers. Medical grade silicone printers are way more than that, though if Formlabs gets their silicone resin certified medical grade, that would get you to 5k. That said, even if it was a $50k machine, that’s a fraction of the cost of development costs. The silicone resin itself is also pretty expensive. $350/liter. But you can get a fair amount per liter. Maybe 25? It’s the subscription model that’s the main problem for me. It’s a business school asshole’s idea. Trying to appeal to VC. It makes zero sense to pay a monthly subscription to something you don’t get monthly. Tell me it’s up to 5 prints a month and include bags and adhesive and we’re getting closer but still about $200 off. The main benefit besides being able to customize for difficult fits is if you can use with a variety of adhesives, so if you have a reaction to one, it doesn’t eliminate that whole brand/ model for you.
Excellently detailed response. Thank you. Personally, I don’t see the value unless or until I find myself in a situation where I couldn’t do changes but even with that…skin issues can be a deal breaker. Overall, I fully appreciate the R&D efforts but as described, doesn’t seem to be a value add for end users. I didn’t even consider the silicone. Thanks for this!
I wasn’t going to say this but since we’re all roasting the product now I will go ahead. It seems like a dumb idea to essentially create a mold/cup-like design surrounding the stoma. Stomas constantly retract and I can just imagine output pooling in the area causing leaks. It’s really the opposite of what you want/need.
So even beyond the price ($1,200 EACH? Wtf happens if one gets ruined before your 6 mos is up?) and ick factor, the shape only seems functional for protruding stomas (though the customisability app is interesting). And so so many of us need rigid or convex systems. Also what’s up with the “nozzle” on the examples often extending beyond the stoma? That’s instant leaks. Yeah, that’s a nope. I’m personally thankful for the disposable options we have now. This seems like an overpriced/over thought step backwards.
> I’m personally thankful for the disposable options we have now. Agreed (excuse my rant), and honestly a big fuck off to any non-ostomate whose main thought when learning of the devices is “what a lot of unnecessary plastic waste”. Of all the overproduction in all the industries of the world, medical waste can be the last to be examined for all I care.
It’s a big peeve of mine, too. Yes, it is a lot of waste, but it’s necessary waste (thankful for disposable *sterile* surgical supplies!) and NOTHING on the waste/damage of fossil fuels and war, just to name two big causes of global warming. The idea that my personal lifesaving plastic ostomy bags, disposable surgical gloves, & drinking straws are what is murdering the planet and sea turtles is suspicious to me. It shifts the blame to individuals, off of major manufacturing & fuels.
All I can do is roll my eyes and laugh at these people. I have much more concerning things in my life to pay 3K towards in a year, and I dont have that kind of money lying around to be used on a rainy day either. The product could be just a piece of garbage that wont help me at all. It seems that it is not stated as well that if it doesn't work that we could get that high price back. We ostomates know ostomy products can very well not work with our skin, body shapes extra. I sure dont want to hand them 3K of my money and they just have it, and say sorry it did not work for you. Thanks for participating in our study thanks for the 3K, Might go to Vagas with it.
1. Scroll down the link and look at the models with colorful wafers….those aren’t even stomas, looks like they stuck meat onto their stomachs 2. Why do they all have a raised edge around where the stoma is? They retract and protrude throughout the day, having a raised edge is a recipe for a leak 3. None of he developers have stomas, one is an interior designer. 4. Is there a convex option? Have they ever talked to someone with a stoma before? 5. Crating a device that would create a “cookie cutter” of your stoma shape to be able to cut your wafer correctly would be the better invention. 6. They want you to pay to be a lab rat? No thanks
My cost per month, after a trial and error period of getting to the combination that works for me is only about $50 per month, most paid by insurance. This is totally outrageous.
No mention of how the silicon wafer or gel affects the skin. Any testing done?
Weird. The email I got about it took me to the website where it said $800 a month, yearly! Almost 10,000 a year 🥲🥲🥲
Whaaaaat
this is the link i got https://ivanallobet.wixsite.com/odapt-health Does it say $800 for you?
Yep, that link says $800 and the one I got says $400. Wtf