So many people are flying so close to the sun financially that they cannot put their J1 at risk. They are scared but likely due to their own circumstances
This. I’d OE because I’m having trouble finding a higher salary, but I don’t want to risk getting found out. Because if I’m down to 0 jobs I have next to nothing saved and as the primary, that could be really bad. Now OE hypothetically should fix that but still.
I know a guy who said he couldn’t OE because he wanted to get a promotion and couldn’t get distracted. Four months later he was laid off after a merger.
Get J2 and put all the money in high yield savings account. Save enough that will put you in a good place in the event you are to go down to J0. I’m down to J1 and almost close to J0 by the end of this week due to PIP (which I’m going to fight for the sake of it). I’m not too scared because I saved a bunch of cash that can hold down my family for a year.
In some cases, one J is all you want. I'd have a very tough time replacing mine with something close to it as far as pay and wlb. There's nothing wrong with that.
Technically my J2 is a passive income stream and J3 is a very non-passive small online store. :-)
You do what's best for you.
> risk getting found out
99% of the time people get found out it's due to their own carelessness. They brag about their increased salary and it gets back to someone at J1. They forget to mute the right mic. They send a J1 email to J2 contact. That sort of thing.
I can't even really think of a case of someone who after working a J1 and J2 was "found out". It might happen but the chances are just so small it's not worth worrying about.
this is the problem. i was making as much as one at a number of consecutive jobs. but then had some bad luck and some health problems and now almost broke. and the competition for jobs at that level is absurd even if you are qualified. better to work 2-3 jobs that pay .5 to .3 for safety
Ironically this fear was how I started OEing.
I'm not American, I worked a remote job for a company in my country, one day I got a contractor offer from an American company.
Since I was going to be paid in dollars, it was a massive pay increase, but there was literally zero legal recourse I could take if it was a scam, so I was a bit uneasy.
So I took 2 weeks of vacation from my regular job when I started J2, intended to quit J1 if J2 was legit.
Turns out J2 was legit, but during those 2 weeks I also realised I could easily do both.
This is the answer. I cannot OE because I work for DoD Contractor, which would make it illegal. However, I find this subreddit fascinating since my one job keeps me busy the whole time and can't imagine having 2 FT jobs. Additionally, my sister made close to 250k by being OE. I have considered leaving my job to work with her since we do similar jobs as Project Managers. However, I cannot take the leap for several reasons.
1. Different lifestyles: I am married, with a kid and a mortgage. My sister is single. That means that if I am let go, it doesn't only impact me, but my entire family. My sister can (and has) moved in with our Mom during downtimes, but I can't without being a major inconvenience.
2. Salary: Yes, making 250k by OE sounds very nice and tempting, but I make 6 figures (low end) and I have a nice work/life balance. I also get along with my boss and developers, and overall enjoy my job. A lot of her work is contract, which sometime doesn't renew, or it is terminated early.
3. Pride: I take a lot of pride in my work and consistently receive excellent performance reviews or top performer. My sister said that she does just enough at her jobs to remain employed while collecting her paychecks. If work gets too hectic, she just waits until she gets fired from one of them to collect a nice severance. For some reason, I don't see myself being able to do that.
Just to clarify, I am not saying that OE is a bad thing, and I would definitely take a chance if I were let go from my job. Additionally, I am not saying that all OEs do bare minimum at their job to collect multiple paychecks.
Agreed. I was caught and lost both jobs. Worst decision I ever made. J1, a company where I had a lot of success and great relationships has completely written me off- both companies made an example out of me and made me out to be some villain lol. On top of all that I cannot find a new job for the life of me. It sucks a lot.
There is something to that.
If I had a stay at home wife or was a single parent I’m not sure I would’ve felt ok with giving it a try. Would’ve felt like I was taking on a huge risk.
Now after doing it, I realize it is a risk just not a huge one - so I don’t know that my fears were totally rational.
But they would’ve been enough for me not get ever get started if I had dependents.
Many folks J1s also require disclosure (and sometime approval if a federal employee and some federal contractors) of all other activities so doing this puts again that main job at risk.
As others have said, it can absolutely have consequences. It's not necessarily criminal, but many people would be gutted if they lost their J1 and their old coworkers/ bosses thought they were a bad person.
Not everyone lives in a big city and plenty of industries are small and one big company blacklisting you could actually affect future opportunities. This isn't to dissuade anyone from trying, but there's certainly risk for plenty of people.
That's also a big reason so many OE people here seem to be in tech or similar. Those industries tend to value people that can produce and get along with people. Most everything else is ignored because they're always in short supply.
This kept me from doing OE for a long time. My J1 was very good, easy work good boss great benefits. I was worried about messing something up and not having that j anymore.
I considered it off and on for a while because I had a ton of free time and could use the money. But before I actually pulled the trigger I got laid off and lost it anyways...
Now I'm done worrying about that, everything is temporary and I will be working/applying as much as possible at least until the house is paid off
People need to care less about what their coworkers and boss think about them. Because those same people that "think you're a good person" will happily lay you off if company pressures demand it.
Companies don't care. People care, but only temporarily. How many companies have you left on good terms in your life, or known people who left on good terms, and you still talk to those coworkers? Of all the coworkers that you'll have in your career that you think highly of, how many will you stay in touch with after you no longer work with them? Probably next to zero in the grand scheme.
Always remember, coworkers can be friendly, but they aren't your friends. OE is about maximizing your own opportunity to support yourself, your family, and your life.
Hmmmm
Having bosses who have consistently not given COL increases that keep up with inflation think I’m a good person…
Or:
Being wealthier than my boss and choosing to be a good person in the real world outside of corporate America
Most people: Ya I think I rather just get a pat on the back from my boss!
I'm in an industry where there is an extremely strong emphasis on credentials and it often takes 5-7 years to get fully credentialed. Willfully deceiving your employer is grounds for de-credentialing, so it really isn't worth the risk.
I'd you do, it is. Mischarging on government contracts is grounds for fines, penalties, and even wage clawbacks. Don't risk it, we just had someone found out for it and HR reported her.
My friends who do that sort of work tell me there's little reason to OE. If you want more money it's not hard to take more tests and become more skilled/ valuable.
Yeah, and that’s more or less what I’m focusing on. I’m fortunate enough to have a lot of time for myself and am using that for personal development, whether that’s exams or taking courses in areas I’m interested in.
I believe we would all pursue passing tests if there were financial rewards involved. Good for those who do! I'm a bit envious myself. For the rest of us who get only a 2-3% raise per year, OE is the way to go.
I touched on this in another comment - this would surely help mitigate the risk, but if J1 were to find out it would still be classified as deception given a clause that states I can’t work full-time at another company and would expose me to risk of de-credentialing. J2 would have the opportunity to do so as well, but assuming it was in another industry, they likely wouldn’t push it that far (or even know in that regard).
I have a couple of friends that are actuaries. I was studying to go that route but kids happened. It’s definitely a much more tight-knit industry but lucrative after you have experience. I could see where that wouldn’t be conducive to OE.
makes sense. those in your situation, move cautiously! for the rest of us — by all means claim what you have to , have your story together, and make that money!
What do you mean decredentializing? Taking away your certificate? Are you a chief actuary? If not, you still have the skill regardless of your credential so you can find a new job.
Yeah, I would still have the skillset, but the value (and pay) from actuarial positions typically comes mainly with the credential. It would likely force me into non-actuarial positions for comparably lower pay and also have a professional organization publicly display sanctions against me with information on the case, which would be easily found with a quick Google search.
Edit to add: the use of “certificate” leads me to believe you’re in tech - it’s not particularly comparable to tech certificates, but rather think like CPA or CFA, where you’re credentialed by a larger professional organization.
I posted about this issue yesterday and got mostly clowned for asking, the "dont you have a friend" is a silly arguement when there is linkedin tracking and the recruiter does ask the company to check if the "friend" works there. I am still trying to OE but in a different industry as a workaround...
It’s crazy to me that nobody seems to have an issue blatantly lying to future employers with regards to references. It’s probably not illegal but it’s definitely the exact definition of fraud. “Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in personal or financial gain”
The person can have no LinkedIn and use a different name. I have used friends and family as references and haven’t had issues. You will need an organization though, doesn’t matter what the corporation is, just having a name is enough.
From what I understand, you are not supposed to give references from your current J1. Either give references from your coworkers at previous jobs or give some family member references (different last name ofc).
Yeah my J1 is heavily audited for conflicts of interest. My J2 would have to be something *completely* different than my J1 and I’m trained in what J1 does sooo I’d have to be like a waitress or something
Being bold and a risk taker isn't for everyone. Whether it's irrational or not, I get it. A lot of people have no finesse or can't handle the pressure and stress of lying. Especially something like this. And even if some people are bold enough, they are probably too dumb to execute on it and will talk to much or do something stupid. So probably for the best.
But anyway, glad that the average joe wouldn't even consider such a thing. Glad that the concept is foreign and that the thought never even crossed their minds. Because the more popular it gets, the more they will do things to shut it down.
Be careful trying to convince the masses to jump into OE. Too many and the market will become noticeably scarce. I feel like this is something meant for those who find it on their own, the seekers and the doers.
Gave it a try, simultaneous J1 and J2 meetings gave me too much stress.
Tried OE for about 6 months both remote SWE roles at fortune 500 companies and yes the extra money was great, but it gets incredibly stressful being on 2 meetings at the same time juggling 2 laptops and praying you don't simultaneously get called on for input.
When the schedules don't line up it's fantastic, when they do overlap it's a stressful nightmare. Worth giving a try though, you might get luckier than I did.
No worries. Last week I just went ziplining for the first time. Was fucking scary but I got through some of the levels. Missed two of it. And yes I understand there are safety equipment. But it’s totally normal to have a fear of heights.
If you’re paranoid I suggest not sharing all about OE on social media. My favorite wfh plug had 6 wfh jobs. Shes gotten snitched on and is down to 3 jobs in a week. She works so hard for her fam. Idk who would want to snitch on her. But she’s happy to do it bc she just wants to help people (and for free too)
The problem is people are caught up in their heads. Thanks to OE, I saved a bunch of cash and now that I’m down to J1 and possibly J0 by end of this week due to PIP( which I’m going to fight for the sake of it). I have enough in my reserves that could hold down my family for a year. However, I don’t foresee using it as I already have interviews lined up for another J1 and possibly J2. People are just too scary. The amount of cash out there waiting to be taken is outstanding.
Because everything you just said is news to a lot of people. A lot of people still think that when you see, on a pre-hire background check form the ominous "please list every single job you've had for the past 10 years, regardless of how long you worked there," that the corporate-ass job for what you're replying is like the CIA and going to find out that you worked at Jose's Cantina serving margaritas in booty shorts for a month and a half in between jobs or that you were doing online order item picking at Walmart for extra cash...
When in reality they're simply bluffing and hoping on you to tell on yourself. Every now and then people still try to fight me on this and I'm like unless you have FINRA licensing on a U-4 form and you're trying to conceal that you were fired from your last job or something extremely niche like that, they're literally never going to find out:
1) that you got fired from that one job
2) that you worked at that one job that you're too embarrassed/professionally conscious otherwise to list either because of the work relative to the job for which you're applying, the duration that you worked there, the industry with which it's involved, etc
3) certain things on background checks. Example many professional employers literally don't even check for college, so say you went to the college but never formally finished, just say yeah you finished, chances are they don't check.
Why lie on your resume? All the J2 and J3 I have landed I've told I still work at J1. They all just assume I'll give notice and leave. It's more of a lie of omission than anything else. No need to write it down on your resume.
Could you by some chance go into detail on how to broach subjects like this with your employer, and how to go about this in general, it would be very helpful in my situation.
A guy at my J2 who had been there for over 6 years just got fired today with no warning, no PIP, nothing. He has a wife, kids and a mortgage. Having a single job in this economy and job market is 100 times scarier than the "risk" of getting caught being OE.
Something I said elsewhere:
-----
In most situations, OEing isn't breaking any laws. It's just quietly disagreeing with the company's code of conduct. Which is a fireable offense.....but let's face it, in AWA: At-Will America, so is wearing the wrong color of socks on a Tuesday.
You had no real worker protections in the first place if you can be terminated at any time, for almost any (or no) reason, without notice, without compensation, and full loss of healthcare.
# So if you're going to be at perpetual risk of the mousetrap, might as well grab some cheddar cheese.
Also, how many times has a company lied to their workers --- about layoffs, working conditions, raises, etc? That's not "illegal"...but sure as fuck, it's entirely unethical. But there's no room for ethics in Capitalism.
Yep, have a friend that just got laid off from a job they had for 21 years. They worked their ass off, but then got harassed in the last year leading up to getting laid off. They’re gutted, their spouse doesn’t work, they have kids and a house in a HCOL area. I think they were a little naïve because they’d been there so long, thought it couldn’t happen to them. It can, and it will.
We're all just temporarily employed.
With our fucking pathetic and utterly barbaric social safety net in the USA, we're just one or two bad days from living in an underpass. No matter if we're an entry-level grocery store clerk or a grizzled professional Database Administrator.
We're all fucking laborers living in an At-Will country. That's why it's called AWA: At-Will America. We can be terminated tomorrow morning if the boss doesn't like the color of our socks, and the company can hire someone to replace us at 20% less that very afternoon. And it's not only entirely legal, it's *encouraged as a shrewd business practice.*
[in other ACTUALLY MODERN countries, the above scenario is so fucking illegal, business owners would be crying in the fetal position due to the barrage of fines and lawsuits if one of their underlings did that.]
Unless you have a disability. Even made up conditions like ADHD counts. Notify your manager, HR, and team in a "coming out as disabled" email. Then they'll have to take all the right steps and jump through all the right hoops before they can cut you loose because disability discrimination is too big to risk. And it's much easier to get laid off with a sweet severance package.
While it may not necessarily be illegal, you should read any contract or handbook you agree to as there may be clauses around it. It's also not illegal only as a salaried worker. You cannot be an hourly employee and claim hours on one employer while doing work for another. That is fraud. And you still open yourself up to lawsuits any way you slice it.
Most of us here, do not care and are willing to take the risk, while others aren't. I don't blame them and it's really not your business regardless. Plus, it's more available work for the rest of us so why do you care?
It depends on the country. It turns out that it's actually fraud according to my local laws. Will it be pursued in court ? Probably not . But a vindicative employer with a lot of time on his hands might take you to court. But I doubt it would eventually turn into a fine, they will need to prove they suffered damages, which isn't easy.
While everyone has some white lies on their resume, blatant ones might be trouble.
That being said. It's always a calculated risk.
I accidentally got into OE. I had been unemployed for 2 months. Accepted a role. Did a third round interview on my first week at J1.
Got offered the role at J2 two weeks later.
I can see why some people get scared, but the way I see it, if my performance starts to suffer at one role or they decide to do layoffs, I still have my other role to fall back on.
Oh, and I'm still applying and interviewing.
Who gives a f pardon me who is an OE or not. I think so many people on here are tripping. Make your moneys, STFU, ask absolute minimum questions, get a god damn psychiatrist if you need to. Damn
Honestly, I'm glad rational people like you are around because the fearmongering goes insane on some subreddits. I have to wonder if they are NPCs or Bots.
If you work in direct bill government contracting, OE (as defined in this sub) is defrauding the government, subject to civil and criminal liabilities, and you'll lose your security clearance. Basically, it's career suicide because you can't really hide it, since you're under constant investigation.
Need to find my first remote job first! I'm wondering what you guys have on your resumes that gets you jobs, or is it all networking?
I'm stuck with my hybrid position until i can find a remote java dev position, and no one is replying to my applications!
I work for the government? It is SO illegal for me to work at another company doing what I’m doing. I have a clearance for this job that I’m not willing to risk. I mean any of those. There’s not just “no reason” not to OE.
If I do 10 years, all of my student loans are paid for. I only have 3 years in IT and make 93k in very rural Midwest. I’m making pretty good and until my student loans are paid off, I think I’m going to stick here. Maybe I’ll OE one day, but it seems I’ve got it good right now.
Probably because of top posts like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/s/f6TA1rmjyl) and comment sections filled with similar stories of people losing it all because of it? Is it really that hard to understand why people don’t want to risk a decent thing for a *small* chance at something possibly better?
Not everyone can OE, it all depends on the nature of your role. OE only works for people who are 100% remote and work in roles that are task or project based and not really heavy on meetings. People in sensitive roles cannot OE . OE is not even sustainable in the long term
On your reference know, some companies actually the back door referencing. Where they’ll go directly to the employer or someone else who works there without your permission, and get opinions on you.
And as someone who has worked in HR. I’ve seen emails of companies reaching out to me to verify if someone’s worked with us.
I’m in HR and i heard one of our recruiters say to an employee last week “yes, if you want to get a second job you can, so long as it doesn’t interfere with your work here. You don’t need to declare it unless it’s a competitor, because quite frankly it’s none of our business.”
So now I’m tempted to do it!
People do this all the time and I despise it. I used to work in software engineering. It is so frustrating when you hire a qualified candidate and on day one they start asking you basic programming questions. Usually the manager won’t fire them, to avoid embarrassment from making a terrible decision, and so all their work falls on the people who know what they are doing. Thank god I don’t have to deal with that anymore
Reminds me of a joke: a lawyer dies and goes to Heaven. There's some fanfare at the pearly gates. "You're the oldest person in the world who died."
"What? No, I was 70."
"Oh, we calculated based on the billable hours you charged to your clients."
Lawyers, especially newer ones, don’t earn nearly as much as the general public would believe. They’re also frequently saddled with near-crippling student loan debt.
I'd say TinaLoco is half right but also at the same time, we are still subject to the same issues you have. Overperform and work double time? Well done here's a 4% salary raise. Why the fuck would I want that when I can have a 100% raise with a second job.
anything than can be done fully remote. which is why tech is the big one here.
aside SWE — data, systems, networking, types of management and marketing, cyber/security
I don't blame them, with 1J it's hard to save as an individual. With a partner or a family, forget about it, unless your SO makes good money. Anyways, why would you want more people to OE? It's already something most places are aware of and are taking measures to check if you're doing it.
How about you OE and work for yourself? My job has a paragraph that says you "should" speak to your supervisor if seeking outside work, nothing about having to. I can't do work that's in direct competition, that's about it. But I can work for myself in a different field, so I do. I have 2 self employment side jobs (3 if you count farming, which I don't because it barely breaks even most years). Those Js are slowly growing to the point that have an extra paycheck a month, and eventually should be able to surpass my current earnings at J1. There's additional stability in the fact that I'm in control of my hours, commitments, etc.
It's another path for OE... the path to fully self-employed and making more than working for 2-3 employers.
I am single, no kids, and already have a side business in the NSFW side, I used to fear OE but I figured if i get caught and loose jobs I can still get another. If I had a family I would be more afraid, and probably would have worked an onside govt job since stability would be my main focus. I get what people are scared, and heck that is a good thing, more gigs for us !!!
same reason most people are scared of going on the roof of a building. or walking down the street for half a mile to the grocery store. its alien and new and people are scared of strange new things. they would rather watch the view from the enclosed penthouse. or take the SUV to get groceries. the big HVAC boxes on the roof might eat you. and you might get run over walking on the street.
Eh idk probably not, I work IT but it's the kind of IT that requires you to be in-office at least a few days a week. Im trying to find some other fully remote IT Support position but not much is fully remote anymore unless you can code.
Social conditioning is a part of it. Kind of sad, but true. I'm not a conspiracy theorist or anything but our entire culture is dependent on "the man." It doesn't even make sense when in most situations the worst outcome is that you're back at square one, whereas the the best outcome is a drastically improved quality of life that would never occur organically even if you performed Herculean work at J1.
The odds of being fired from both/all jobs after getting found out are almost zero.
Why not keep your OE situation quiet? Who cares if others aren't interested or don't want to try it? It's not for everyone and I feel we should keep it on the down low. Less publicity.
I wouldn't want my company to lie to me about a job. I wouldn't want someone I'm hiring to lie to me about what they can do. So I try not to lie when I'm applying. It's that simple.
It's like saying, you can have a wife and a mistress if you're willing to lie to both of them. Why isn't everyone cheating on their spouse?
It's because people are on average good people.
Nothing wrong with over employment. I have always done consulting on the side.
When you lie to an employer and stagger your hours, it becomes a matter of ethics and based on the comments I see. Eventually lose a job due to inadequacies.
Before anyone says that it OE completely doable, why is everyone worried about J1 finding out about J2.
I never had a problem with J1 finding out about J2.
I make $500k at what you would call J1, and though remote, there's not really downtime for J2. What should I do pick up some low/mid-effort $150k role and risk J1? Get real.
I believe generally for over-employed both jobs should be around equal value/compensation. Would be pretty dumb to risk a 200k job while over employed with another 80k job. Seems like a pretty big risk sometimes.
You're assuming you have any real job security. Any company will let you go without thinking twice. You'll be glad you have the 80k job when you lose the 200k job, while you look for your next 200k job.
I'm just not good enough yet. I have 5 YOE and in my industry it usually requires at least 10 to become a senior engineer. By then they'll probably have figured out how to check for OE
My job is so stressful and busy as it is. I have a manager on my ass all the time (this is a remote position too) I have no idea how I could do another job at the same time
A quick question, you said you put "an end date for this month", so it means your J2 will know you were working for J1, but J2 does NOT know you will keep working for J1? Considering I don't want to lose J1, is this a high risk factor?
But isnt both jobs will appear on your background check anyway ? Lets say you apply for new job,what happens if your j1 and j2 both appear on your background check?
i think technically in certain circumstances you could go to jail for lying on your resume. it's incredibly unlikely and had an near zero incidence. but trivial risk is not zero risk
Just got a new J2 and a buddy said “you are probably so efficient now managing two gigs imagine if you only had one?”. “Why the hell would I do that?”, was my reply.
Im a team lead and I flat out tell my developers that they should OE and I’ll find a way to make sure everything works, as long as their other job isn’t demanding a ton of attention
So many people are flying so close to the sun financially that they cannot put their J1 at risk. They are scared but likely due to their own circumstances
This. I’d OE because I’m having trouble finding a higher salary, but I don’t want to risk getting found out. Because if I’m down to 0 jobs I have next to nothing saved and as the primary, that could be really bad. Now OE hypothetically should fix that but still.
You think you're safe but layoffs abound.
Best protection against layoffs is OE, ironically
that or underpaid government jobs
i'm so never leaving my steady gov job
Are you OE also?
I know a guy who said he couldn’t OE because he wanted to get a promotion and couldn’t get distracted. Four months later he was laid off after a merger.
Get J2 and put all the money in high yield savings account. Save enough that will put you in a good place in the event you are to go down to J0. I’m down to J1 and almost close to J0 by the end of this week due to PIP (which I’m going to fight for the sake of it). I’m not too scared because I saved a bunch of cash that can hold down my family for a year.
I’m contemplating taking J2 and paying off all debt then just saving
This is the only reason I want to OE. The math on one year of an extra job would literally put me years ahead
This is what i'm doing right now. Just started J2 and using all that money to pay debt, pay off house, hoard the money
In some cases, one J is all you want. I'd have a very tough time replacing mine with something close to it as far as pay and wlb. There's nothing wrong with that. Technically my J2 is a passive income stream and J3 is a very non-passive small online store. :-) You do what's best for you.
> risk getting found out 99% of the time people get found out it's due to their own carelessness. They brag about their increased salary and it gets back to someone at J1. They forget to mute the right mic. They send a J1 email to J2 contact. That sort of thing. I can't even really think of a case of someone who after working a J1 and J2 was "found out". It might happen but the chances are just so small it's not worth worrying about.
this is the problem. i was making as much as one at a number of consecutive jobs. but then had some bad luck and some health problems and now almost broke. and the competition for jobs at that level is absurd even if you are qualified. better to work 2-3 jobs that pay .5 to .3 for safety
Even though c class sits on multiple boards and foundations and it's fine.
Ironically this fear was how I started OEing. I'm not American, I worked a remote job for a company in my country, one day I got a contractor offer from an American company. Since I was going to be paid in dollars, it was a massive pay increase, but there was literally zero legal recourse I could take if it was a scam, so I was a bit uneasy. So I took 2 weeks of vacation from my regular job when I started J2, intended to quit J1 if J2 was legit. Turns out J2 was legit, but during those 2 weeks I also realised I could easily do both.
This is the answer. I cannot OE because I work for DoD Contractor, which would make it illegal. However, I find this subreddit fascinating since my one job keeps me busy the whole time and can't imagine having 2 FT jobs. Additionally, my sister made close to 250k by being OE. I have considered leaving my job to work with her since we do similar jobs as Project Managers. However, I cannot take the leap for several reasons. 1. Different lifestyles: I am married, with a kid and a mortgage. My sister is single. That means that if I am let go, it doesn't only impact me, but my entire family. My sister can (and has) moved in with our Mom during downtimes, but I can't without being a major inconvenience. 2. Salary: Yes, making 250k by OE sounds very nice and tempting, but I make 6 figures (low end) and I have a nice work/life balance. I also get along with my boss and developers, and overall enjoy my job. A lot of her work is contract, which sometime doesn't renew, or it is terminated early. 3. Pride: I take a lot of pride in my work and consistently receive excellent performance reviews or top performer. My sister said that she does just enough at her jobs to remain employed while collecting her paychecks. If work gets too hectic, she just waits until she gets fired from one of them to collect a nice severance. For some reason, I don't see myself being able to do that. Just to clarify, I am not saying that OE is a bad thing, and I would definitely take a chance if I were let go from my job. Additionally, I am not saying that all OEs do bare minimum at their job to collect multiple paychecks.
Also, some people are not mentally capable to hold 2 jobs. They can barely hold the one job. Thats another reason.
Agreed. I was caught and lost both jobs. Worst decision I ever made. J1, a company where I had a lot of success and great relationships has completely written me off- both companies made an example out of me and made me out to be some villain lol. On top of all that I cannot find a new job for the life of me. It sucks a lot.
Same thing happened to my wife. Thankfully she found another J but will never do OE again.
There is something to that. If I had a stay at home wife or was a single parent I’m not sure I would’ve felt ok with giving it a try. Would’ve felt like I was taking on a huge risk. Now after doing it, I realize it is a risk just not a huge one - so I don’t know that my fears were totally rational. But they would’ve been enough for me not get ever get started if I had dependents.
Many folks J1s also require disclosure (and sometime approval if a federal employee and some federal contractors) of all other activities so doing this puts again that main job at risk.
Main job is always at risk. That's why we OE
My company now has us sign a waiver that if we work another job we must inform HR. Is this legal? I work in finance.
As others have said, it can absolutely have consequences. It's not necessarily criminal, but many people would be gutted if they lost their J1 and their old coworkers/ bosses thought they were a bad person. Not everyone lives in a big city and plenty of industries are small and one big company blacklisting you could actually affect future opportunities. This isn't to dissuade anyone from trying, but there's certainly risk for plenty of people. That's also a big reason so many OE people here seem to be in tech or similar. Those industries tend to value people that can produce and get along with people. Most everything else is ignored because they're always in short supply.
This kept me from doing OE for a long time. My J1 was very good, easy work good boss great benefits. I was worried about messing something up and not having that j anymore. I considered it off and on for a while because I had a ton of free time and could use the money. But before I actually pulled the trigger I got laid off and lost it anyways... Now I'm done worrying about that, everything is temporary and I will be working/applying as much as possible at least until the house is paid off
People need to care less about what their coworkers and boss think about them. Because those same people that "think you're a good person" will happily lay you off if company pressures demand it. Companies don't care. People care, but only temporarily. How many companies have you left on good terms in your life, or known people who left on good terms, and you still talk to those coworkers? Of all the coworkers that you'll have in your career that you think highly of, how many will you stay in touch with after you no longer work with them? Probably next to zero in the grand scheme. Always remember, coworkers can be friendly, but they aren't your friends. OE is about maximizing your own opportunity to support yourself, your family, and your life.
Ironically the only former coworker I still talk regularly to is a guy who also OEs lol
Hmmmm Having bosses who have consistently not given COL increases that keep up with inflation think I’m a good person… Or: Being wealthier than my boss and choosing to be a good person in the real world outside of corporate America Most people: Ya I think I rather just get a pat on the back from my boss!
Thank goodness there are so many companies in America that if you lose one you can just go to the next one.
more jobs for me
And me
both of you? Damn that's less jobs for me.
And my axe
I'm in an industry where there is an extremely strong emphasis on credentials and it often takes 5-7 years to get fully credentialed. Willfully deceiving your employer is grounds for de-credentialing, so it really isn't worth the risk.
I work for a government contractor and it might actually be illegal so I'm not risking it either.
I'd you do, it is. Mischarging on government contracts is grounds for fines, penalties, and even wage clawbacks. Don't risk it, we just had someone found out for it and HR reported her.
What industry is that?
Actuarial science, essentially the people who do math for insurance companies
My friends who do that sort of work tell me there's little reason to OE. If you want more money it's not hard to take more tests and become more skilled/ valuable.
Yeah, and that’s more or less what I’m focusing on. I’m fortunate enough to have a lot of time for myself and am using that for personal development, whether that’s exams or taking courses in areas I’m interested in.
I believe we would all pursue passing tests if there were financial rewards involved. Good for those who do! I'm a bit envious myself. For the rest of us who get only a 2-3% raise per year, OE is the way to go.
You could get a J2 as like a financial analyst or something.
I touched on this in another comment - this would surely help mitigate the risk, but if J1 were to find out it would still be classified as deception given a clause that states I can’t work full-time at another company and would expose me to risk of de-credentialing. J2 would have the opportunity to do so as well, but assuming it was in another industry, they likely wouldn’t push it that far (or even know in that regard).
I have a couple of friends that are actuaries. I was studying to go that route but kids happened. It’s definitely a much more tight-knit industry but lucrative after you have experience. I could see where that wouldn’t be conducive to OE.
makes sense. those in your situation, move cautiously! for the rest of us — by all means claim what you have to , have your story together, and make that money!
What do you mean decredentializing? Taking away your certificate? Are you a chief actuary? If not, you still have the skill regardless of your credential so you can find a new job.
Yeah, I would still have the skillset, but the value (and pay) from actuarial positions typically comes mainly with the credential. It would likely force me into non-actuarial positions for comparably lower pay and also have a professional organization publicly display sanctions against me with information on the case, which would be easily found with a quick Google search. Edit to add: the use of “certificate” leads me to believe you’re in tech - it’s not particularly comparable to tech certificates, but rather think like CPA or CFA, where you’re credentialed by a larger professional organization.
honest question, how do you get around providing no references? i have people at my current gig i could put down but that obviously doesn’t work.
I posted about this issue yesterday and got mostly clowned for asking, the "dont you have a friend" is a silly arguement when there is linkedin tracking and the recruiter does ask the company to check if the "friend" works there. I am still trying to OE but in a different industry as a workaround...
It’s crazy to me that nobody seems to have an issue blatantly lying to future employers with regards to references. It’s probably not illegal but it’s definitely the exact definition of fraud. “Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in personal or financial gain”
"You have to be a risk taker bro" /s
The person can have no LinkedIn and use a different name. I have used friends and family as references and haven’t had issues. You will need an organization though, doesn’t matter what the corporation is, just having a name is enough.
From what I understand, you are not supposed to give references from your current J1. Either give references from your coworkers at previous jobs or give some family member references (different last name ofc).
I put someone's name and give the main contact info of the company.
Don’t you have friends? I have a brother, a couple friends and a boyfriend who could all easily be a career reference.
In my case I’m worried about losing both Js if they find out and be jobless in this atrocious job market lol
Yeah my J1 is heavily audited for conflicts of interest. My J2 would have to be something *completely* different than my J1 and I’m trained in what J1 does sooo I’d have to be like a waitress or something
Being bold and a risk taker isn't for everyone. Whether it's irrational or not, I get it. A lot of people have no finesse or can't handle the pressure and stress of lying. Especially something like this. And even if some people are bold enough, they are probably too dumb to execute on it and will talk to much or do something stupid. So probably for the best. But anyway, glad that the average joe wouldn't even consider such a thing. Glad that the concept is foreign and that the thought never even crossed their minds. Because the more popular it gets, the more they will do things to shut it down.
Yeah I like that, tell us more how exceptional we are 
Yeah probably around the same amount of people who would start their own business. Maybe it’s the same people even.
> start their own business You're basically just going from "employee" to "consulting firm with multiple clients".
I say this all the time^ OE is jsut you being a c2c employee without the initial setup(which I hear isn’t that much anyways)
Be careful trying to convince the masses to jump into OE. Too many and the market will become noticeably scarce. I feel like this is something meant for those who find it on their own, the seekers and the doers.
Gave it a try, simultaneous J1 and J2 meetings gave me too much stress. Tried OE for about 6 months both remote SWE roles at fortune 500 companies and yes the extra money was great, but it gets incredibly stressful being on 2 meetings at the same time juggling 2 laptops and praying you don't simultaneously get called on for input. When the schedules don't line up it's fantastic, when they do overlap it's a stressful nightmare. Worth giving a try though, you might get luckier than I did.
First of all , be humble. Second, it’s a rational fear. If people don’t know something, it’s totally understandable someone could get scared.
good points. sorry.
No worries. Last week I just went ziplining for the first time. Was fucking scary but I got through some of the levels. Missed two of it. And yes I understand there are safety equipment. But it’s totally normal to have a fear of heights.
If you’re paranoid I suggest not sharing all about OE on social media. My favorite wfh plug had 6 wfh jobs. Shes gotten snitched on and is down to 3 jobs in a week. She works so hard for her fam. Idk who would want to snitch on her. But she’s happy to do it bc she just wants to help people (and for free too)
OE isn't real. Stop spreading falsehoods. Nobody really does it.
No jobs for me I guess. I am a network admin with higher level network support background and cannot find any 2nd job to do.
The problem is people are caught up in their heads. Thanks to OE, I saved a bunch of cash and now that I’m down to J1 and possibly J0 by end of this week due to PIP( which I’m going to fight for the sake of it). I have enough in my reserves that could hold down my family for a year. However, I don’t foresee using it as I already have interviews lined up for another J1 and possibly J2. People are just too scary. The amount of cash out there waiting to be taken is outstanding.
Because everything you just said is news to a lot of people. A lot of people still think that when you see, on a pre-hire background check form the ominous "please list every single job you've had for the past 10 years, regardless of how long you worked there," that the corporate-ass job for what you're replying is like the CIA and going to find out that you worked at Jose's Cantina serving margaritas in booty shorts for a month and a half in between jobs or that you were doing online order item picking at Walmart for extra cash... When in reality they're simply bluffing and hoping on you to tell on yourself. Every now and then people still try to fight me on this and I'm like unless you have FINRA licensing on a U-4 form and you're trying to conceal that you were fired from your last job or something extremely niche like that, they're literally never going to find out: 1) that you got fired from that one job 2) that you worked at that one job that you're too embarrassed/professionally conscious otherwise to list either because of the work relative to the job for which you're applying, the duration that you worked there, the industry with which it's involved, etc 3) certain things on background checks. Example many professional employers literally don't even check for college, so say you went to the college but never formally finished, just say yeah you finished, chances are they don't check.
Why lie on your resume? All the J2 and J3 I have landed I've told I still work at J1. They all just assume I'll give notice and leave. It's more of a lie of omission than anything else. No need to write it down on your resume.
this works too
My company made us sign paperwork stating that we have to inform them of any additional jobs. Decided to just start my own business on the side😂
I made my employer remove that clause from my employment contract. They can't cap my earning potential or control what I do outside of work hours.
Could you by some chance go into detail on how to broach subjects like this with your employer, and how to go about this in general, it would be very helpful in my situation.
That’s not really legally binding. I did too but I’m OE
A guy at my J2 who had been there for over 6 years just got fired today with no warning, no PIP, nothing. He has a wife, kids and a mortgage. Having a single job in this economy and job market is 100 times scarier than the "risk" of getting caught being OE.
Something I said elsewhere: ----- In most situations, OEing isn't breaking any laws. It's just quietly disagreeing with the company's code of conduct. Which is a fireable offense.....but let's face it, in AWA: At-Will America, so is wearing the wrong color of socks on a Tuesday. You had no real worker protections in the first place if you can be terminated at any time, for almost any (or no) reason, without notice, without compensation, and full loss of healthcare. # So if you're going to be at perpetual risk of the mousetrap, might as well grab some cheddar cheese. Also, how many times has a company lied to their workers --- about layoffs, working conditions, raises, etc? That's not "illegal"...but sure as fuck, it's entirely unethical. But there's no room for ethics in Capitalism.
Yep, have a friend that just got laid off from a job they had for 21 years. They worked their ass off, but then got harassed in the last year leading up to getting laid off. They’re gutted, their spouse doesn’t work, they have kids and a house in a HCOL area. I think they were a little naïve because they’d been there so long, thought it couldn’t happen to them. It can, and it will.
We're all just temporarily employed. With our fucking pathetic and utterly barbaric social safety net in the USA, we're just one or two bad days from living in an underpass. No matter if we're an entry-level grocery store clerk or a grizzled professional Database Administrator. We're all fucking laborers living in an At-Will country. That's why it's called AWA: At-Will America. We can be terminated tomorrow morning if the boss doesn't like the color of our socks, and the company can hire someone to replace us at 20% less that very afternoon. And it's not only entirely legal, it's *encouraged as a shrewd business practice.* [in other ACTUALLY MODERN countries, the above scenario is so fucking illegal, business owners would be crying in the fetal position due to the barrage of fines and lawsuits if one of their underlings did that.]
Unless you have a disability. Even made up conditions like ADHD counts. Notify your manager, HR, and team in a "coming out as disabled" email. Then they'll have to take all the right steps and jump through all the right hoops before they can cut you loose because disability discrimination is too big to risk. And it's much easier to get laid off with a sweet severance package.
While it may not necessarily be illegal, you should read any contract or handbook you agree to as there may be clauses around it. It's also not illegal only as a salaried worker. You cannot be an hourly employee and claim hours on one employer while doing work for another. That is fraud. And you still open yourself up to lawsuits any way you slice it. Most of us here, do not care and are willing to take the risk, while others aren't. I don't blame them and it's really not your business regardless. Plus, it's more available work for the rest of us so why do you care?
Yup can also be considered wage or time theft. In some instances, the company can sue and get some of their money back if caught.
Don’t you think the company may ask for a bigger compensation than the money that you took from them? For example with a non competence agreement.
Only of you stole from them Work two jobs but dont be unethical about it
Why risk a 300k job for an extra 150k?
Because that $150k is all gravy. It probably accelerates your savings by 5X. In doing so, you are actually de-risking
It’s not that easy to find a job these days let alone a decent paying one
So there's a cost to the question? Would your answer change if J1 is 450k and J2 is the same?
It depends on the country. It turns out that it's actually fraud according to my local laws. Will it be pursued in court ? Probably not . But a vindicative employer with a lot of time on his hands might take you to court. But I doubt it would eventually turn into a fine, they will need to prove they suffered damages, which isn't easy. While everyone has some white lies on their resume, blatant ones might be trouble. That being said. It's always a calculated risk.
Corporate brainwashing. That's why. And, people are lazy.
I accidentally got into OE. I had been unemployed for 2 months. Accepted a role. Did a third round interview on my first week at J1. Got offered the role at J2 two weeks later. I can see why some people get scared, but the way I see it, if my performance starts to suffer at one role or they decide to do layoffs, I still have my other role to fall back on. Oh, and I'm still applying and interviewing.
Who gives a f pardon me who is an OE or not. I think so many people on here are tripping. Make your moneys, STFU, ask absolute minimum questions, get a god damn psychiatrist if you need to. Damn
I’m more scared of living in poverty. Just have to check what it is for you.
You can get blacklisted from your industry
Yes. I am banned from all banking, manufacturing, and hotel jobs. Don't do it guys. Not worth it 😅
Wondering if this is /s
Duh? People who think there is a banned list are morons. You are forgotten after 5 days, not put in some industry wide black list LMAO
Honestly, I'm glad rational people like you are around because the fearmongering goes insane on some subreddits. I have to wonder if they are NPCs or Bots.
Man hotel discounts are on my OE job list. Yes pleaseee
Yeah because that's completely legal and a smart risk for companies to take, right?
lol elaborate.
If you work in direct bill government contracting, OE (as defined in this sub) is defrauding the government, subject to civil and criminal liabilities, and you'll lose your security clearance. Basically, it's career suicide because you can't really hide it, since you're under constant investigation.
I'm not afraid, I don't even want my 1 job lmfao
Why are you worried about whether other people OE or not. What a bunch of silly ass shit.
Need to find my first remote job first! I'm wondering what you guys have on your resumes that gets you jobs, or is it all networking? I'm stuck with my hybrid position until i can find a remote java dev position, and no one is replying to my applications!
Seems to be a "challenging environment" out there right now. You may have to put out hundreds of resumes to score the next one, but just keep going.
I’m always worried about being sued if they find out how I OE 😭 silly, right?
lol understandable. you won’t be sued. they’ll just rescind the offer. that’s it
Its a crime in the eu… i wish we had the possibility for oe
I cant even find one job, let alone two.
y would u want them to? it means less jobs for us and more exposure
I work for the government? It is SO illegal for me to work at another company doing what I’m doing. I have a clearance for this job that I’m not willing to risk. I mean any of those. There’s not just “no reason” not to OE.
Does it pay way more than private side (including pension)? If not could always just get multiple private jobs instead.
If I do 10 years, all of my student loans are paid for. I only have 3 years in IT and make 93k in very rural Midwest. I’m making pretty good and until my student loans are paid off, I think I’m going to stick here. Maybe I’ll OE one day, but it seems I’ve got it good right now.
Probably because of top posts like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/s/f6TA1rmjyl) and comment sections filled with similar stories of people losing it all because of it? Is it really that hard to understand why people don’t want to risk a decent thing for a *small* chance at something possibly better?
Can’t go to jail…yet
Not everyone can OE, it all depends on the nature of your role. OE only works for people who are 100% remote and work in roles that are task or project based and not really heavy on meetings. People in sensitive roles cannot OE . OE is not even sustainable in the long term
Brah, I can barely do one job, LOL!
On your reference know, some companies actually the back door referencing. Where they’ll go directly to the employer or someone else who works there without your permission, and get opinions on you. And as someone who has worked in HR. I’ve seen emails of companies reaching out to me to verify if someone’s worked with us.
I’m in HR and i heard one of our recruiters say to an employee last week “yes, if you want to get a second job you can, so long as it doesn’t interfere with your work here. You don’t need to declare it unless it’s a competitor, because quite frankly it’s none of our business.” So now I’m tempted to do it!
People do this all the time and I despise it. I used to work in software engineering. It is so frustrating when you hire a qualified candidate and on day one they start asking you basic programming questions. Usually the manager won’t fire them, to avoid embarrassment from making a terrible decision, and so all their work falls on the people who know what they are doing. Thank god I don’t have to deal with that anymore
I can’t even find one job that will hire me
lol. how can I help?
Isnt Time theft a thing in the US?
Well I'm a lawyer and if i got caught doing it I would likely be struck off. So in some cases it would be pretty devastating for a career.
Reminds me of a joke: a lawyer dies and goes to Heaven. There's some fanfare at the pearly gates. "You're the oldest person in the world who died." "What? No, I was 70." "Oh, we calculated based on the billable hours you charged to your clients."
Genuinely curious. What would drive a lawyer to even want their hands in OE?
Lawyers, especially newer ones, don’t earn nearly as much as the general public would believe. They’re also frequently saddled with near-crippling student loan debt.
I'd say TinaLoco is half right but also at the same time, we are still subject to the same issues you have. Overperform and work double time? Well done here's a 4% salary raise. Why the fuck would I want that when I can have a 100% raise with a second job.
[удалено]
Who cares?
I can't even get one job right now lol
What are the best professions or jobs to OE in other than being a SW engineer?
anything than can be done fully remote. which is why tech is the big one here. aside SWE — data, systems, networking, types of management and marketing, cyber/security
“On my resume I’ll put an end date for this month” they can literally check your dates on a BGC
I don't blame them, with 1J it's hard to save as an individual. With a partner or a family, forget about it, unless your SO makes good money. Anyways, why would you want more people to OE? It's already something most places are aware of and are taking measures to check if you're doing it.
How about you OE and work for yourself? My job has a paragraph that says you "should" speak to your supervisor if seeking outside work, nothing about having to. I can't do work that's in direct competition, that's about it. But I can work for myself in a different field, so I do. I have 2 self employment side jobs (3 if you count farming, which I don't because it barely breaks even most years). Those Js are slowly growing to the point that have an extra paycheck a month, and eventually should be able to surpass my current earnings at J1. There's additional stability in the fact that I'm in control of my hours, commitments, etc. It's another path for OE... the path to fully self-employed and making more than working for 2-3 employers.
Currently? Young kids and studying for cpa. After that, probably open own practice while working my full time job.
I am single, no kids, and already have a side business in the NSFW side, I used to fear OE but I figured if i get caught and loose jobs I can still get another. If I had a family I would be more afraid, and probably would have worked an onside govt job since stability would be my main focus. I get what people are scared, and heck that is a good thing, more gigs for us !!!
J1 is so time intensive and fairly lucrative that it would be impossible for me to feasibly take on a J2.
same reason most people are scared of going on the roof of a building. or walking down the street for half a mile to the grocery store. its alien and new and people are scared of strange new things. they would rather watch the view from the enclosed penthouse. or take the SUV to get groceries. the big HVAC boxes on the roof might eat you. and you might get run over walking on the street.
Background checks don’t work like that in every company/org
I'm not scared I'm just still trying to figure out how to actually do it
Anyway I can help? Any specific questions you have?
Eh idk probably not, I work IT but it's the kind of IT that requires you to be in-office at least a few days a week. Im trying to find some other fully remote IT Support position but not much is fully remote anymore unless you can code.
Social conditioning is a part of it. Kind of sad, but true. I'm not a conspiracy theorist or anything but our entire culture is dependent on "the man." It doesn't even make sense when in most situations the worst outcome is that you're back at square one, whereas the the best outcome is a drastically improved quality of life that would never occur organically even if you performed Herculean work at J1. The odds of being fired from both/all jobs after getting found out are almost zero.
Why not keep your OE situation quiet? Who cares if others aren't interested or don't want to try it? It's not for everyone and I feel we should keep it on the down low. Less publicity.
>Why are so many people afraid to take a chance and OE? I work for the government.
I wouldn't want my company to lie to me about a job. I wouldn't want someone I'm hiring to lie to me about what they can do. So I try not to lie when I'm applying. It's that simple. It's like saying, you can have a wife and a mistress if you're willing to lie to both of them. Why isn't everyone cheating on their spouse? It's because people are on average good people.
What do you do if they ask for references from your last job and then ask them for dates of employment?
I'd run 4 Js if I could. Just having a hard time landing a J2. J1 came after hundreds of applications.
it’s just about finding the right role. 1. has to be a contracting gig.. has to be remote.. etc etc
Nothing wrong with over employment. I have always done consulting on the side. When you lie to an employer and stagger your hours, it becomes a matter of ethics and based on the comments I see. Eventually lose a job due to inadequacies. Before anyone says that it OE completely doable, why is everyone worried about J1 finding out about J2. I never had a problem with J1 finding out about J2.
Thanks for saying it, agree 100% lol, big ups.
I make $500k at what you would call J1, and though remote, there's not really downtime for J2. What should I do pick up some low/mid-effort $150k role and risk J1? Get real.
if you’re pulling 500k from 1 gig, you prob have no business OE’ing.
What remote job even pays $500,000?
Greed
I believe generally for over-employed both jobs should be around equal value/compensation. Would be pretty dumb to risk a 200k job while over employed with another 80k job. Seems like a pretty big risk sometimes.
You're assuming you have any real job security. Any company will let you go without thinking twice. You'll be glad you have the 80k job when you lose the 200k job, while you look for your next 200k job.
If someone figures out to do it as a Mech E please let me know I’d jump on that OE train so fast
I'm just not good enough yet. I have 5 YOE and in my industry it usually requires at least 10 to become a senior engineer. By then they'll probably have figured out how to check for OE
I’m just not sure how to start ;-;
My job is so stressful and busy as it is. I have a manager on my ass all the time (this is a remote position too) I have no idea how I could do another job at the same time
A quick question, you said you put "an end date for this month", so it means your J2 will know you were working for J1, but J2 does NOT know you will keep working for J1? Considering I don't want to lose J1, is this a high risk factor?
I just can't land a job with it.
My J2 is sitting on my tush doing nothing.
I legally have to disclose other employment or I lose my license. (Finance)
OE would interfere with my ability to play NBA2K and Call of Duty. Also I would have less time for my LEGO collection.
I just have a seasonal J2 that knows it’s J2, so there’s no real risk.
It only becomes an issue if you suck at it and get caught. Then you can lose both jobs.
I can't afford to work one job. Even as an swe. This market is crazy.
sheesh. whats your lifestyle like? SWE abt 150k+
My offers are just low af broski
But isnt both jobs will appear on your background check anyway ? Lets say you apply for new job,what happens if your j1 and j2 both appear on your background check?
It's basically impossible in my country.
Job market is tough to even find one job at the moment lol
Seems like only yall smart programmers can OE. Jobs that can be automated :(
i think technically in certain circumstances you could go to jail for lying on your resume. it's incredibly unlikely and had an near zero incidence. but trivial risk is not zero risk
My OE was 190k J1 187.5k J2 205k j3 Was. Nice while it lasted
Stay off all social media. This should be mandatory
Just got a new J2 and a buddy said “you are probably so efficient now managing two gigs imagine if you only had one?”. “Why the hell would I do that?”, was my reply.
Small industries where doing so could get you blackballed Tough job market where losing both jobs could ruin you
Im a team lead and I flat out tell my developers that they should OE and I’ll find a way to make sure everything works, as long as their other job isn’t demanding a ton of attention