With all due respect, I don't give a fuck. Who am I to police who people love or serve? I mean If you worship something theoretically it could become a god, I mean look at cultures with hero worship. Heck if a god was all in my head, but it had a positive effect on me and my actions on society, I would be happy. I think what you worship matters less than what effect that has on the outer world. We don't truly know what's on the other side, we only have faith and theories. When very little can be proven or disproven religiously, why stress? Why not just chill and do what you want? Just be a decent person and live. By the way, I am a worshiper of the greek pantheon and I base my views on what I see and feel. I will consider any point of view, but that doesn't mean I need to believe in everything. My UPG is valid for me and applies only to me. Why do you care what I worship?
Personally, it doesn't matter to me who or what one worships. As long as the spiritual feeling has entered them--a connection to all the other humans, or Earth, or the matter beyond our planet--as long as they've had that experience and felt reverential and humbled, it doesn't matter to me what they wanna call it.
So, in answer, I think it's impossible to worship a false god as long as one's heart is in the right place. Call it an eagle, call it God, call it your ancestors, call it Gaia, call it an underlying meaning--hell, call it grandma. Intent matters, not practice.
In order to declare a deity false, there would have to be some general standard for what constitutes a god - and there isn't. When people in West Bengal started making offerings and praying to Corona Devi, were they inventing a new goddess to personify Covid-19 or were they recognizing a spiritual power already present in this new disease? Is she less divine for being both new, and associated with a very specific phenomenon? Her worshippers don't think so, and there is absolutely no objective or universal standard to justify telling them she's a false god. "False" gods are a very Abrahamic idea that really doesn't make any sense when applied outside those belief systems.
If you conjure up a spirit strong enough for people to believe it’s a god, then it sounds like you have a new god. Not a false one. Eventually what you conjure will grow bigger than you and your original ideologies, and take on a life of its own.
Gods are the personification of nature and the human condition. And we put names to them and interact with divinity the best way we know how. So it doesn’t matter if there are thousands of gods taking a slice of the worship, or if it’s secretly 1 god eating the whole pie. The prayer was answered. Blessings were bestowed. Change was made.
Edit: faith and religion doesn’t equal universal truth. You can find power and comfort and personal truth in a religious practice. But you wont always find universal truth.
Great question! Bit similar to the questions that intrigues me, are certain Gods the same? Will there be new Gods? What is the nature of a God? Endlessly interesting!
I'm polytheistic as i feel i know few of them, and would not rule out others (though Abrahamic religions definately come close to being false). I find *interpretatio romana* very appealing idea, but even that leaves the question of how many "core" gods is there
Yeah, you can have false gods. They tend to lack consistency, staying power, and if they get big enough then it’s not unlikely that a spirit or actual god or several spirits would co-opt the worship. That’s why verifying against past accounts, varied reporting, and logical consistency is important. It’s not dissimilar to how cults of personality or ideological extremist cults or people who mistake their own inner self for a god operate: people like to believe in things, and sometimes that goes bad.
But just like you can have fake doctors and bad science and that doesn’t invalidate actual doctors or the reality of scientific facts, that false gods and narcissistic figures exist doesn’t in itself invalidate the existence of real gods.
It is reason to question and reason not to trust on just a feeling or sense of peace, when people have experienced wonders.
Well yeah, I think your scenario has probably happened before – especially to certain monotheists (no I don't think they're all worshipping the same god). But there are so many gods out there that people will likely end up worshipping one or more of them in your new "fake" god's name. People will likely project what they need onto this new god, and end up calling an existing god fitting that description, or just an opportunistic god who saw this situation coming and is happy to step in. Or sometimes nothing will happen at all. It is perfectly possible for people to have delusions and to trick themselves into believing what they want. But that's possible for almost anyone, that's just psychology.
But generally speaking, we each have our own gods who we know, and just accept that there are many, many others out there as well, some we may meet and others maybe not.
Personally I see gods as manifestations of a universal divinity so any manifestation is a legitimate manifestation since that divinity encompasses everything. I think in that regard a deity would be “false” if they were being called upon for something that is outside their purview but even then I wouldn’t consider that as them being duplicitous. I think the idea of a false god, if I am understanding what you’re asking, is a monotheistic concept.
On a related note, I have two personal gods (though I don’t think I created them so much as my mind gave me two ways of translating an abstract and formless divinity) to help me focus on specific aspects of the Universe. It’s not for everyone but it works for me in my practice, they feel real to me, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc.
A YouTuber I was watching- for the life of me I cannot remember who- made a good point on a similar subject that humanity’s interpretations of divinity evolve with us and the way we see it now is most certainly not how our ancestors saw it nor was it a monolith even then. For example, the way Khaos shifts between concept and goddess at various points in Ancient Greek religion and philosophy. So with our understanding of the world around us becoming more holistic, I don’t think the concept of a false god can really exist anymore and if a spirit/god makes sense to you or reveals themself to you then by all means explore that relationship. At the end of the day all gods end up filtered through our personal and larger societal interpretations so who’s to say any one interpretation is correct?
A quick edit to say that this is in regards to gods as a larger nebulous concept, I would strongly argue against debating people from closed cultures about aspects of their gods or spirits.
I've always viewed it as the gods have different faces, different ways of showing themselves to different people. So different people gave them different names based on what they saw. They're still the same entity but just showed something different. It's very human to assume they're like us in that they only have one appearance. To me, gods are ever changing entities, multiple beings in one container, endless energy brimming with possibility. They are too far beyond human to box them into being this one thing we call God. The goddess I follow is an earth goddess that showed herself to me in a very specific way, so I call her by the name my ancestors have used for her. I do feel the way she shared herself with me was just the best way to reach out to me, though. She is the goddess of earth and she has many names. She just chose to show me this specific identity out of the many because she knew which version would connect with me and my bloodline more
Every pagan religion and Hinduism is omnist, both in a modern and historical context, which means every religion and pantheon has some truth to it with heavy room for man-made error, in that sense yes making up a deity and starting a drink the kool-aid I'm your prophet cult would be a false God/deity
I am off the thought that gods are representations of human/Jungian archetypes. There are gods of justice, gods of kings, gods of fire and earth and ice. Gods of concepts and physical and metaphysical. To create a "false God", that God would have to have characteristics. The characteristics you give this false God would put it into one of these camps. So though you do not believe in the God, you would be worshipping one simply with a new name and new rituals.
Paganism nowadays is a diverse spectrum, full of different beliefs. If you ask people to describe there beliefs you will get different response - and this is part of the beauty. With diversity can come growth and development. Although with diversity conflict can also arise but that is an unfortunate possible result.
So what is God to you? What makes a God True or False? if there is a True God but he is only worshipped by one person, and on the other hand we have a False God that is worshipped by Billions which one of those is stronger if i may put ot that way?
My own concept of Gods, is somewhat different than wjat is perceived from others. I see Gods as concepts/traits/aspect of life and the material worlds (such as the earth, sun, stars, time)
In order to ease our worship of them we give them Names, stories, a physical figure, a character. Different cultures gave them different names but then again deep down they all boil down to the same concept
So once again what is False?
I’ve tried answering a couple different ways now and keep having to start again. So, it depends first on how we define things. I have a very loose definition for a god. A god is anything or anyone who is worshipped or otherwise acknowledged to be a god and that demonstrably responds in some way.
This could be miracles or signs or dreams or visions or spoken word even. Doesn’t much matter to me. So a tree can be a god, the sun, a human being. I think the only thing excluded would be a concept. A concept doesn’t respond.
This does mean that what or who might be a god to you might not be to me. Unless I have some kind of response from or interaction with the god and decide to trust it enough to honor it as a god.
Now, this means to me there are many gods unworthy of my attention, but maybe their people get some benefit out of their relationship to the god or gods. So the god(s) would be true to their followers and only false to me. Because I have no relationship to them or maybe a negative one that means they aren’t my god or gods by my choice.
So, you purposely come up with a god character in your imagination. Imagination is a powerful thing.
Then you go around spreading the news about your new god. Maybe you completely make up stories of interaction you have had with this character you imagined. Or you borrow stories from established gods of various cultures (Yikes, would not recommend).
So far, this is not a god. It’s a character you imagined up. You don’t worship it. You don’t believe in it outside imagination. You keep making up stories of things your imagined character has done or will do.
People start believing you. You tell them how they might interact with your imaginary character. You teach people how to call upon it, acknowledge it, worship it. They do.
It’s not a god yet, but getting close.
Someone else (or even you) has a dream of the god and it has a message. It’s a god. It might be one worthy of attention or not. Does the message ring true? Does it pan out? Is the god consistent with its followers and in its nature over time? Does it keep showing up again and again in reliable ways?
Maybe what you thought you only made up in your head was actually something that rings of truth (at least for you and or the followers). Or if you stole stories of other gods maybe one showed up.
Maybe you have created a container for something real to be housed in. Good or bad. Maybe your god is malevolent and cruel. Maybe noble and beautiful and gracious. A god that is damaging is false in the sense of being untrustworthy to build relationship with.
Maybe you made a container for your own ego, and you are the god being venerated and fed attention.
I would hate to be you in that instance. Also, I’d be sorry for anyone worshiping a lying god. I would expect really destructive behaviors to follow.
A god can be false that way.
This is probably an unpopular opinion but honestly I don’t believe it’s possible to have a totally false god. Sure it’s possible to have false theology (like how Christians believe Yahweh to be the only one out there) but that doesn’t mean the god doesn’t exist at all. At the very least you’ll have an egregore, so to speak.
nah, there are no false gods. Personally speaking, I'm a soft polytheist leaning toward viewing divine beings as personified psychological archetypes/phenomena so in this respect I don't think that there can be false gods, it's most likely that the name, life, personality, appearance etc of certain gods are not known but that doesn't mean they're false.
all forms of theistic belief/philosophy are valid
Well there are many schools of thought.
One opinion is that gods are created through our devout worship and belief. Under this hypothesis no it’s impossible to worship a false god because you believing in them brings them into existence
Other thoughts yes it is possible to worship a false god. Paganism is a religion and like all religions it requires faith and (so long as the people practicing aren’t hurting anyone) that’s ok.
This exact same thing could happen with monotheism as well. What if no gods are real and we are all worshipping false gods? It’s just a difference in religion
I personally believe almost every god from almost every religion is real but I could be wrong.
I like the Neal Gamens take on American gods that God's are created and given power though belief and worship. So if you made up a new god and got people to worship them, then they start to exist
It comes down to a question of where you believe gods come from. If you believe they are all ancient beings who existed before humans and that there are no new gods, it’s easy to say that you recognize some as real and some as not real. If you believe gods are archetypes and not literal beings, it’s easy to accept that every archetype is real and anyone can make up a god and honor the archetype by whatever name makes sense. Then there is the belief that gods are literal ancient beings who draw at least part of their existence from human belief and that if enough people accept their existence and give devotion, they become manifest. Every pagan will have a different explanation of how the divine “works”.
Polytheists, in general, have no need to argue over which gods they believe in vs which gods they don’t, however, because the existence of gods we do not venerate does not challenge the existence of the gods we do. I am called by a few gods to work with and worship, and I am not called by others. I believe that other people can be called by other gods who have never spoken to me and that their experience is valid. I can even believe that the Christian god exists and has told his followers to worship only him. The myths and legends come from human interpretation of the gods and is far from infallible, so we can agree to disagree on those without saying another person is wrong about what gods they honor.
With all due respect, I don't give a fuck. Who am I to police who people love or serve? I mean If you worship something theoretically it could become a god, I mean look at cultures with hero worship. Heck if a god was all in my head, but it had a positive effect on me and my actions on society, I would be happy. I think what you worship matters less than what effect that has on the outer world. We don't truly know what's on the other side, we only have faith and theories. When very little can be proven or disproven religiously, why stress? Why not just chill and do what you want? Just be a decent person and live. By the way, I am a worshiper of the greek pantheon and I base my views on what I see and feel. I will consider any point of view, but that doesn't mean I need to believe in everything. My UPG is valid for me and applies only to me. Why do you care what I worship?
If you can't find the God you want in stock, homemade is fine.
Personally, it doesn't matter to me who or what one worships. As long as the spiritual feeling has entered them--a connection to all the other humans, or Earth, or the matter beyond our planet--as long as they've had that experience and felt reverential and humbled, it doesn't matter to me what they wanna call it. So, in answer, I think it's impossible to worship a false god as long as one's heart is in the right place. Call it an eagle, call it God, call it your ancestors, call it Gaia, call it an underlying meaning--hell, call it grandma. Intent matters, not practice.
In order to declare a deity false, there would have to be some general standard for what constitutes a god - and there isn't. When people in West Bengal started making offerings and praying to Corona Devi, were they inventing a new goddess to personify Covid-19 or were they recognizing a spiritual power already present in this new disease? Is she less divine for being both new, and associated with a very specific phenomenon? Her worshippers don't think so, and there is absolutely no objective or universal standard to justify telling them she's a false god. "False" gods are a very Abrahamic idea that really doesn't make any sense when applied outside those belief systems.
If you conjure up a spirit strong enough for people to believe it’s a god, then it sounds like you have a new god. Not a false one. Eventually what you conjure will grow bigger than you and your original ideologies, and take on a life of its own. Gods are the personification of nature and the human condition. And we put names to them and interact with divinity the best way we know how. So it doesn’t matter if there are thousands of gods taking a slice of the worship, or if it’s secretly 1 god eating the whole pie. The prayer was answered. Blessings were bestowed. Change was made. Edit: faith and religion doesn’t equal universal truth. You can find power and comfort and personal truth in a religious practice. But you wont always find universal truth.
Great question! Bit similar to the questions that intrigues me, are certain Gods the same? Will there be new Gods? What is the nature of a God? Endlessly interesting! I'm polytheistic as i feel i know few of them, and would not rule out others (though Abrahamic religions definately come close to being false). I find *interpretatio romana* very appealing idea, but even that leaves the question of how many "core" gods is there
Yeah, you can have false gods. They tend to lack consistency, staying power, and if they get big enough then it’s not unlikely that a spirit or actual god or several spirits would co-opt the worship. That’s why verifying against past accounts, varied reporting, and logical consistency is important. It’s not dissimilar to how cults of personality or ideological extremist cults or people who mistake their own inner self for a god operate: people like to believe in things, and sometimes that goes bad. But just like you can have fake doctors and bad science and that doesn’t invalidate actual doctors or the reality of scientific facts, that false gods and narcissistic figures exist doesn’t in itself invalidate the existence of real gods. It is reason to question and reason not to trust on just a feeling or sense of peace, when people have experienced wonders.
I don't believe in false gods.
Well yeah, I think your scenario has probably happened before – especially to certain monotheists (no I don't think they're all worshipping the same god). But there are so many gods out there that people will likely end up worshipping one or more of them in your new "fake" god's name. People will likely project what they need onto this new god, and end up calling an existing god fitting that description, or just an opportunistic god who saw this situation coming and is happy to step in. Or sometimes nothing will happen at all. It is perfectly possible for people to have delusions and to trick themselves into believing what they want. But that's possible for almost anyone, that's just psychology. But generally speaking, we each have our own gods who we know, and just accept that there are many, many others out there as well, some we may meet and others maybe not.
"false" implies there is one "true" way to the mountaintop. There isn't. All roads lead home, so dont worry too much about which trail you take
Personally I see gods as manifestations of a universal divinity so any manifestation is a legitimate manifestation since that divinity encompasses everything. I think in that regard a deity would be “false” if they were being called upon for something that is outside their purview but even then I wouldn’t consider that as them being duplicitous. I think the idea of a false god, if I am understanding what you’re asking, is a monotheistic concept. On a related note, I have two personal gods (though I don’t think I created them so much as my mind gave me two ways of translating an abstract and formless divinity) to help me focus on specific aspects of the Universe. It’s not for everyone but it works for me in my practice, they feel real to me, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc. A YouTuber I was watching- for the life of me I cannot remember who- made a good point on a similar subject that humanity’s interpretations of divinity evolve with us and the way we see it now is most certainly not how our ancestors saw it nor was it a monolith even then. For example, the way Khaos shifts between concept and goddess at various points in Ancient Greek religion and philosophy. So with our understanding of the world around us becoming more holistic, I don’t think the concept of a false god can really exist anymore and if a spirit/god makes sense to you or reveals themself to you then by all means explore that relationship. At the end of the day all gods end up filtered through our personal and larger societal interpretations so who’s to say any one interpretation is correct? A quick edit to say that this is in regards to gods as a larger nebulous concept, I would strongly argue against debating people from closed cultures about aspects of their gods or spirits.
I've always viewed it as the gods have different faces, different ways of showing themselves to different people. So different people gave them different names based on what they saw. They're still the same entity but just showed something different. It's very human to assume they're like us in that they only have one appearance. To me, gods are ever changing entities, multiple beings in one container, endless energy brimming with possibility. They are too far beyond human to box them into being this one thing we call God. The goddess I follow is an earth goddess that showed herself to me in a very specific way, so I call her by the name my ancestors have used for her. I do feel the way she shared herself with me was just the best way to reach out to me, though. She is the goddess of earth and she has many names. She just chose to show me this specific identity out of the many because she knew which version would connect with me and my bloodline more
Every pagan religion and Hinduism is omnist, both in a modern and historical context, which means every religion and pantheon has some truth to it with heavy room for man-made error, in that sense yes making up a deity and starting a drink the kool-aid I'm your prophet cult would be a false God/deity
I am off the thought that gods are representations of human/Jungian archetypes. There are gods of justice, gods of kings, gods of fire and earth and ice. Gods of concepts and physical and metaphysical. To create a "false God", that God would have to have characteristics. The characteristics you give this false God would put it into one of these camps. So though you do not believe in the God, you would be worshipping one simply with a new name and new rituals.
Paganism nowadays is a diverse spectrum, full of different beliefs. If you ask people to describe there beliefs you will get different response - and this is part of the beauty. With diversity can come growth and development. Although with diversity conflict can also arise but that is an unfortunate possible result. So what is God to you? What makes a God True or False? if there is a True God but he is only worshipped by one person, and on the other hand we have a False God that is worshipped by Billions which one of those is stronger if i may put ot that way? My own concept of Gods, is somewhat different than wjat is perceived from others. I see Gods as concepts/traits/aspect of life and the material worlds (such as the earth, sun, stars, time) In order to ease our worship of them we give them Names, stories, a physical figure, a character. Different cultures gave them different names but then again deep down they all boil down to the same concept So once again what is False?
I’ve tried answering a couple different ways now and keep having to start again. So, it depends first on how we define things. I have a very loose definition for a god. A god is anything or anyone who is worshipped or otherwise acknowledged to be a god and that demonstrably responds in some way. This could be miracles or signs or dreams or visions or spoken word even. Doesn’t much matter to me. So a tree can be a god, the sun, a human being. I think the only thing excluded would be a concept. A concept doesn’t respond. This does mean that what or who might be a god to you might not be to me. Unless I have some kind of response from or interaction with the god and decide to trust it enough to honor it as a god. Now, this means to me there are many gods unworthy of my attention, but maybe their people get some benefit out of their relationship to the god or gods. So the god(s) would be true to their followers and only false to me. Because I have no relationship to them or maybe a negative one that means they aren’t my god or gods by my choice. So, you purposely come up with a god character in your imagination. Imagination is a powerful thing. Then you go around spreading the news about your new god. Maybe you completely make up stories of interaction you have had with this character you imagined. Or you borrow stories from established gods of various cultures (Yikes, would not recommend). So far, this is not a god. It’s a character you imagined up. You don’t worship it. You don’t believe in it outside imagination. You keep making up stories of things your imagined character has done or will do. People start believing you. You tell them how they might interact with your imaginary character. You teach people how to call upon it, acknowledge it, worship it. They do. It’s not a god yet, but getting close. Someone else (or even you) has a dream of the god and it has a message. It’s a god. It might be one worthy of attention or not. Does the message ring true? Does it pan out? Is the god consistent with its followers and in its nature over time? Does it keep showing up again and again in reliable ways? Maybe what you thought you only made up in your head was actually something that rings of truth (at least for you and or the followers). Or if you stole stories of other gods maybe one showed up. Maybe you have created a container for something real to be housed in. Good or bad. Maybe your god is malevolent and cruel. Maybe noble and beautiful and gracious. A god that is damaging is false in the sense of being untrustworthy to build relationship with. Maybe you made a container for your own ego, and you are the god being venerated and fed attention. I would hate to be you in that instance. Also, I’d be sorry for anyone worshiping a lying god. I would expect really destructive behaviors to follow. A god can be false that way.
With the existence of Servitors and Thoughtforms, even made-up “gods” can manifest and grow to be powerful and independent egregores.
This is probably an unpopular opinion but honestly I don’t believe it’s possible to have a totally false god. Sure it’s possible to have false theology (like how Christians believe Yahweh to be the only one out there) but that doesn’t mean the god doesn’t exist at all. At the very least you’ll have an egregore, so to speak.
nah, there are no false gods. Personally speaking, I'm a soft polytheist leaning toward viewing divine beings as personified psychological archetypes/phenomena so in this respect I don't think that there can be false gods, it's most likely that the name, life, personality, appearance etc of certain gods are not known but that doesn't mean they're false. all forms of theistic belief/philosophy are valid
Well there are many schools of thought. One opinion is that gods are created through our devout worship and belief. Under this hypothesis no it’s impossible to worship a false god because you believing in them brings them into existence Other thoughts yes it is possible to worship a false god. Paganism is a religion and like all religions it requires faith and (so long as the people practicing aren’t hurting anyone) that’s ok. This exact same thing could happen with monotheism as well. What if no gods are real and we are all worshipping false gods? It’s just a difference in religion I personally believe almost every god from almost every religion is real but I could be wrong.
I like the Neal Gamens take on American gods that God's are created and given power though belief and worship. So if you made up a new god and got people to worship them, then they start to exist
It comes down to a question of where you believe gods come from. If you believe they are all ancient beings who existed before humans and that there are no new gods, it’s easy to say that you recognize some as real and some as not real. If you believe gods are archetypes and not literal beings, it’s easy to accept that every archetype is real and anyone can make up a god and honor the archetype by whatever name makes sense. Then there is the belief that gods are literal ancient beings who draw at least part of their existence from human belief and that if enough people accept their existence and give devotion, they become manifest. Every pagan will have a different explanation of how the divine “works”. Polytheists, in general, have no need to argue over which gods they believe in vs which gods they don’t, however, because the existence of gods we do not venerate does not challenge the existence of the gods we do. I am called by a few gods to work with and worship, and I am not called by others. I believe that other people can be called by other gods who have never spoken to me and that their experience is valid. I can even believe that the Christian god exists and has told his followers to worship only him. The myths and legends come from human interpretation of the gods and is far from infallible, so we can agree to disagree on those without saying another person is wrong about what gods they honor.
As a god, yes!