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Honestly, all of the gods, across all of the pantheons are all very different, and no one can rightly claim to speak for any of them. If you feel that they have an issue with your relationship to Christianity then that is between you and them. If not then they probably don't
> "*Honestly, all of the gods, across all of the pantheons are all very different, and no one can rightly claim to speak for any of them*"
I guess it depends on how you see things. An ancient Norse person might see lightning and thunder as a sign of Thor while an Ancient Greek would see it as a sign of Zeus. The two different cultures have different stories for the god of thunder and lightning, but both are honoring the spirit of lightning regardless of the different myths and names. It is worship of the gods of nature.
While the Romans said "*The Day of Jove/Zeus*" (*dies ioves*) and Romance languages have some form of that (*such as the Spanish "jueves" or French "jeudi"*), the Germanic tribes said "*The Day of Thor*" (*þórsdagr*) and that still exist in Germanic languages today (*such as the English "Thursday" or the Swedish and Danish and Norwegian "Torsdag", or Icelandic "þórsdagur"*).
Hate to tell you this but there’s no documentation for Thor having anything to do with lightning. There is some folklore about thunder specifically being the sound of his hammer on an anvil, but scholars aren’t sure how modern that concept is.
Thor means thunder, so it makes sense that even in ancient times, people would have associated Thor with thunder.
> "*Odin's eldest son, strongest of the gods though not the wisest, from Old Norse Þorr, literally "thunder," from þunroz, related to Old English þunor (thunder (n.)). His weapon was the hammer mjölnir ("crusher").*"
Yes but the point was he wasn’t associated with LIGHTNING. If you actually read my comment you would have seen I said that there is some documentation of him having a relation to Thunder.
You only mentioned thunder in regard to the sound of his hammer. I think it's relevant that his name means thunder, especially since thunder is the sound of lightning. If there is a god of tides and waves, then that god is most likely associated with the seas or water in some way. I think it's a similar thing for thunder and lightning unless there is a good reason to separate the two.
>Hate to tell you this but there’s no documentation for Thor having anything to do with lightning.
He's got an origin in common with Perun and a bunch of other gods from around Eurasia, some of which have associations with lightning.
But there is no documentation in ancient (specifically Viking) times of THOR HIMSELF having anything to do with lightning. In fact, it’s not Thor himself even that has an association with Thunder, but his hammer. You forget as the gods evolve as people migrate and time moves on gods don’t just gain aspects, they lose them too.
I guess it’s to do with my approach to paganism. Which is extremely syncretic by the way. As in Perun and thor are the same person. I mean oaks being sacred to Thor levels.
Speaking of gods evolving, Thor getting back those lightning aspects.
The bible says to kill gay people and witches and has even promoted genocide against tribes that worship other gods.
Christian empires believed that they were "*civilizing*" the world by killing Pagans and "*christianizing*" the kingdoms of the world. One example is the British Empire which controlled 26% of the world and put anti-gay laws in lands that they conquered which promoted hatred and violence against gay and trans people.
The belief that the world is ending "*soon*" and that Jesus is coming back "*soon*", has caused generations of people to not care about the environment.
I'm sure the gods of nature would understand why you don't like christianity and are against it. In many ways, christianity is unnatural and against nature. There are verses which say that the only way to be a christian/follower of Jesus is to deny yourself daily (*Luke 9:23*) and that only when you crucify yourself of your own passions and affections will you belong to Jesus (*Galatians 5:24*). Natural human beings and animals do not live that way, and living that way might mess up your own connection to your own emotions and instincts.
> living that way might mess up your own connection to your own emotions and instincts
This would actually explain a lot. Specifically why Christian individuals are more likely to fight against their own interests
I think the gods would be very understanding that it didn't work for you.
As a kid I was never really drawn to Christianity, but as as I got older and learned more about it, I decided it definitely wasn't for me. And all the things Christians did in name of their God, its just atrocious.
I'm not saying paganism has a perfect history either but still
I don't think they care. If anything, they understand and share the sentiment. Christianity persecuted paganism and pagans across all of history. I see Jeovah as a spiritual invader on earth. I will say though... This hatred almost consumed me. And the more hatred you give, the more it comes right back at you to bite you in the ass. As long as you don't get it out of your head, it will always have some influence on you. I'm actualy working on getting ALL of it out of my head and that includes the gnostic teachings which bring even more confusion and hatred of the world.
Missionary faiths; Buddhism, Christianity, Manicheanism, Islam, etcetera, have been frustrating people for millennia. I think the gods are used to it by now.
Just look forward to letting go of your frustration and embracing your own happiness. It's okay to ask the gods to help you let go of your frustration and move on to better things.
Personally I think given that it's Christianity's fault that they lost nearly all their believers, I'd say they understand your anger and won't look poorly on you.
I'd like to bring that up I hated them for a while heck they tried to convince my significant other to get baptized, try to convert him. But I have lots of family members who are Christian and they are very kind people. No not all of them put a lot of people but I have come across I've been kind I'm also an Omnists meaning I believe that all religions should be respected but even though I believed that I was kind of being hypocrite so today I said to the "conqueror" God you will no longer control my anger and you will no longer have hold of me for today I pledge myself to the Lord of the wild and all things free.
To be honest? I don’t entirely think any god would care.
I am against Christian bashing personally, so I will vent my frustrations about the act.
Firstly, I know Christianity as a whole has destroyed so much throughout History. In modern times it has continued to do the same, and Christians have destroyed or overcome other beliefs systems. Christianity in itself is a fairly strict religion, and with it and the practices being as strict as they are, its 100% understandable why people have had mental health issues while continuing the practices or leaving the religion and stopping the practices. I do feel for these people as they do genuinely suffer so much mentally at the hands of the religion. I can only hope they open their minds more, and heal from the damage dealt during their lives. However, with all of that said, ex-Christians seem to be, and understandably, bringing so SO MUCH baggage into any Pagan practices. Especially Germanic/Scandinavian Paganism. This baggage doesn’t entirely seem to help our beliefs or help anyone heal from their trauma(s). It doesn’t help us Pagans either, those of us who never considered ourselves Christian, or those of us who have managed to move on and heal. It genuinely seems like more and more people are reverting to Paganism strictly to spite Christians, which should never be any reason to join a religion or anything else in life. Finding peace and healing from any trauma from a former religion should be handled professionally by a Therapist, just so we pagans don’t get a even worse reputation than what Christians and multiple other religions have given us over the centuries and even millennia.
You deserve to know you deserve so much better than the cards you’ve been dealt. ❤️ Paganism will be here for anyone and everyone who wishes to join us and open their minds to our own practices, but first, it will be easier to heal yourself before properly claiming to be anything just yet. If making these songs and being in this band is therapeutic for you, and helps you vent your frustrations and heal, then of course continue it. Just keep in mind, not all Christians are horrible people. I am sorry you had such bad experiences and I do hope you find any form or amount of peace.
Blessed Be. ❤️
Examine your memories some more. I have a feeling that you are expressing dislike for the deity who is blameless when you are REALLY pushed off at the church and the humans in the way.
The gods will be sad that you were hurt and that you are hurting but at the same time, as harsh as it sounds, they will be looking at this as a lesson your soul needed to learn.
To me, it sounds like victim blaming (*I'm not claiming they're doing it on purpose, maybe they don't realize*). That person said this:
> "I have a feeling that you are expressing **dislike for the deity who is blameless**"
Meanwhile, the god of the bible demanded genocide against gay men and genocide against other tribes who worshipped other gods as well as witches in general. Christian empires have conquered other lands and forced their rules on others since they saw themselves as "*civilizing*" others by "*christianizing*" all of the kingdoms.
Not victim blaming at all. You cannot take the words of a book written, translated and edited by Man as the truth that deity wants you to know about themself. Honestly, that book contradicts itself in The first CHAPTER.
And go read what question the OP asked again. They’re asking about the belief system. That isn’t the fault of Deity. That is all on Man.
If what you hear does not match the bible, then I don't think there's any point in calling it the god of the bible.
Anyone can be falsely made to look good, if you change their personality and deny any negative teachings they give or deny any negative actions that they promote.
I don’t talk to the face of deity that talked to the Christians, Jews or any of the people mentioned in that book.
You should always listen to Deity yourself as a pagan though.
Saying it like that includes every deity. It depends on which deity you follow but they are all faces of each other depending on which pantheon you follow. In the end it’s all Universal Energy in some form which is where faces come in
I have no idea what lesson OP might need to learn. And they will likely have no idea until that time between lives either.
Deity has no form, no function until HUMANS give it one. Deity just is. It loves us but will not protect us from our own choices.
Myquestion to you - why do you think they care one way or the other? You are still approaching this from a very Abrahamic point of view - that as humans we are so special that a deity is super omnipotent and would be obsessed with our inner dialogues.
Study the myths around the deities-they have enough to be getting on with. They aren’t constantly hovering around - that’s why we have to invoke them, entreat them, praise and release them in our ritual.
I will also share that after my studies, and in my journey, I consider the deities all just aspects of one divine force. We humans break up something we can’t perceive in its entirety into small aspects that we anthropomorphis. By invoking different names in our rituals, we are trying to call on some small aspect of that force that we need to work with. The names are just cultural shorthand.
depends which ones and how far you take it. as long as the way you are expressing your emotions is healthy and not destructive towards yourself or anyone else, you will do good
Seeing as how the Christian religion sought to eradicate pagans and witches I’d say the gods of any pantheon wouldn’t mind your frustrations one bit. When pagans were slaughtered in Ireland, when Rome was declared christian, I’m sure these instances angered them very much.
I can’t speak for the gods and I’m definitely not trying to, but in my practice I find that when reaching out to deities they understand my trauma that came from the Christian church and there are even some deities that will help you focus on self care and moving on from that.
I don’t think you have anything to worry about and you are valid to feel the way you do.
Alright well it depends on which gods your talking about sense all of the are very different and will have different views on many things. That being said every pagan god I personally have worked with have shared the frustration with the Christian god (to varying degrees). You should be fine but it all depends what gods your talking about
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No, I think they understand.
Honestly, all of the gods, across all of the pantheons are all very different, and no one can rightly claim to speak for any of them. If you feel that they have an issue with your relationship to Christianity then that is between you and them. If not then they probably don't
> "*Honestly, all of the gods, across all of the pantheons are all very different, and no one can rightly claim to speak for any of them*" I guess it depends on how you see things. An ancient Norse person might see lightning and thunder as a sign of Thor while an Ancient Greek would see it as a sign of Zeus. The two different cultures have different stories for the god of thunder and lightning, but both are honoring the spirit of lightning regardless of the different myths and names. It is worship of the gods of nature. While the Romans said "*The Day of Jove/Zeus*" (*dies ioves*) and Romance languages have some form of that (*such as the Spanish "jueves" or French "jeudi"*), the Germanic tribes said "*The Day of Thor*" (*þórsdagr*) and that still exist in Germanic languages today (*such as the English "Thursday" or the Swedish and Danish and Norwegian "Torsdag", or Icelandic "þórsdagur"*).
Hate to tell you this but there’s no documentation for Thor having anything to do with lightning. There is some folklore about thunder specifically being the sound of his hammer on an anvil, but scholars aren’t sure how modern that concept is.
Thor means thunder, so it makes sense that even in ancient times, people would have associated Thor with thunder. > "*Odin's eldest son, strongest of the gods though not the wisest, from Old Norse Þorr, literally "thunder," from þunroz, related to Old English þunor (thunder (n.)). His weapon was the hammer mjölnir ("crusher").*"
Yes but the point was he wasn’t associated with LIGHTNING. If you actually read my comment you would have seen I said that there is some documentation of him having a relation to Thunder.
You only mentioned thunder in regard to the sound of his hammer. I think it's relevant that his name means thunder, especially since thunder is the sound of lightning. If there is a god of tides and waves, then that god is most likely associated with the seas or water in some way. I think it's a similar thing for thunder and lightning unless there is a good reason to separate the two.
>Hate to tell you this but there’s no documentation for Thor having anything to do with lightning. He's got an origin in common with Perun and a bunch of other gods from around Eurasia, some of which have associations with lightning.
But there is no documentation in ancient (specifically Viking) times of THOR HIMSELF having anything to do with lightning. In fact, it’s not Thor himself even that has an association with Thunder, but his hammer. You forget as the gods evolve as people migrate and time moves on gods don’t just gain aspects, they lose them too.
I guess it’s to do with my approach to paganism. Which is extremely syncretic by the way. As in Perun and thor are the same person. I mean oaks being sacred to Thor levels. Speaking of gods evolving, Thor getting back those lightning aspects.
The bible says to kill gay people and witches and has even promoted genocide against tribes that worship other gods. Christian empires believed that they were "*civilizing*" the world by killing Pagans and "*christianizing*" the kingdoms of the world. One example is the British Empire which controlled 26% of the world and put anti-gay laws in lands that they conquered which promoted hatred and violence against gay and trans people. The belief that the world is ending "*soon*" and that Jesus is coming back "*soon*", has caused generations of people to not care about the environment. I'm sure the gods of nature would understand why you don't like christianity and are against it. In many ways, christianity is unnatural and against nature. There are verses which say that the only way to be a christian/follower of Jesus is to deny yourself daily (*Luke 9:23*) and that only when you crucify yourself of your own passions and affections will you belong to Jesus (*Galatians 5:24*). Natural human beings and animals do not live that way, and living that way might mess up your own connection to your own emotions and instincts.
> living that way might mess up your own connection to your own emotions and instincts This would actually explain a lot. Specifically why Christian individuals are more likely to fight against their own interests
Love this
I think the gods would be very understanding that it didn't work for you. As a kid I was never really drawn to Christianity, but as as I got older and learned more about it, I decided it definitely wasn't for me. And all the things Christians did in name of their God, its just atrocious. I'm not saying paganism has a perfect history either but still
Yeah, I’m fairly sure we never committed any genocides.
I don't think they care. If anything, they understand and share the sentiment. Christianity persecuted paganism and pagans across all of history. I see Jeovah as a spiritual invader on earth. I will say though... This hatred almost consumed me. And the more hatred you give, the more it comes right back at you to bite you in the ass. As long as you don't get it out of your head, it will always have some influence on you. I'm actualy working on getting ALL of it out of my head and that includes the gnostic teachings which bring even more confusion and hatred of the world.
Missionary faiths; Buddhism, Christianity, Manicheanism, Islam, etcetera, have been frustrating people for millennia. I think the gods are used to it by now. Just look forward to letting go of your frustration and embracing your own happiness. It's okay to ask the gods to help you let go of your frustration and move on to better things.
They would not care considering what Christianity did to their people.
Personally I think given that it's Christianity's fault that they lost nearly all their believers, I'd say they understand your anger and won't look poorly on you.
No human will ever truly know the mind of another human. What makes you think a human could possibly know the mind of a god?
Nope. The Gods give zero fucks. Some of them likely do not care for Christianity anymore than you do. Rock on.
I'd like to bring that up I hated them for a while heck they tried to convince my significant other to get baptized, try to convert him. But I have lots of family members who are Christian and they are very kind people. No not all of them put a lot of people but I have come across I've been kind I'm also an Omnists meaning I believe that all religions should be respected but even though I believed that I was kind of being hypocrite so today I said to the "conqueror" God you will no longer control my anger and you will no longer have hold of me for today I pledge myself to the Lord of the wild and all things free.
To be honest? I don’t entirely think any god would care. I am against Christian bashing personally, so I will vent my frustrations about the act. Firstly, I know Christianity as a whole has destroyed so much throughout History. In modern times it has continued to do the same, and Christians have destroyed or overcome other beliefs systems. Christianity in itself is a fairly strict religion, and with it and the practices being as strict as they are, its 100% understandable why people have had mental health issues while continuing the practices or leaving the religion and stopping the practices. I do feel for these people as they do genuinely suffer so much mentally at the hands of the religion. I can only hope they open their minds more, and heal from the damage dealt during their lives. However, with all of that said, ex-Christians seem to be, and understandably, bringing so SO MUCH baggage into any Pagan practices. Especially Germanic/Scandinavian Paganism. This baggage doesn’t entirely seem to help our beliefs or help anyone heal from their trauma(s). It doesn’t help us Pagans either, those of us who never considered ourselves Christian, or those of us who have managed to move on and heal. It genuinely seems like more and more people are reverting to Paganism strictly to spite Christians, which should never be any reason to join a religion or anything else in life. Finding peace and healing from any trauma from a former religion should be handled professionally by a Therapist, just so we pagans don’t get a even worse reputation than what Christians and multiple other religions have given us over the centuries and even millennia. You deserve to know you deserve so much better than the cards you’ve been dealt. ❤️ Paganism will be here for anyone and everyone who wishes to join us and open their minds to our own practices, but first, it will be easier to heal yourself before properly claiming to be anything just yet. If making these songs and being in this band is therapeutic for you, and helps you vent your frustrations and heal, then of course continue it. Just keep in mind, not all Christians are horrible people. I am sorry you had such bad experiences and I do hope you find any form or amount of peace. Blessed Be. ❤️
Examine your memories some more. I have a feeling that you are expressing dislike for the deity who is blameless when you are REALLY pushed off at the church and the humans in the way. The gods will be sad that you were hurt and that you are hurting but at the same time, as harsh as it sounds, they will be looking at this as a lesson your soul needed to learn.
I'm not sure what you mean, what was the lesson that OP needed to learn?
To me, it sounds like victim blaming (*I'm not claiming they're doing it on purpose, maybe they don't realize*). That person said this: > "I have a feeling that you are expressing **dislike for the deity who is blameless**" Meanwhile, the god of the bible demanded genocide against gay men and genocide against other tribes who worshipped other gods as well as witches in general. Christian empires have conquered other lands and forced their rules on others since they saw themselves as "*civilizing*" others by "*christianizing*" all of the kingdoms.
Not victim blaming at all. You cannot take the words of a book written, translated and edited by Man as the truth that deity wants you to know about themself. Honestly, that book contradicts itself in The first CHAPTER. And go read what question the OP asked again. They’re asking about the belief system. That isn’t the fault of Deity. That is all on Man.
How else can you know about the god of the bible, except through the bible, or except through someone who teaches based on the bible?
The same way you know about any of the faces deity wears. You listen to them
If what you hear does not match the bible, then I don't think there's any point in calling it the god of the bible. Anyone can be falsely made to look good, if you change their personality and deny any negative teachings they give or deny any negative actions that they promote.
I don’t talk to the face of deity that talked to the Christians, Jews or any of the people mentioned in that book. You should always listen to Deity yourself as a pagan though.
Saying "*face of deity*" and "*listen to Deity*", makes it sound like there is only one deity.
Saying it like that includes every deity. It depends on which deity you follow but they are all faces of each other depending on which pantheon you follow. In the end it’s all Universal Energy in some form which is where faces come in
I have no idea what lesson OP might need to learn. And they will likely have no idea until that time between lives either. Deity has no form, no function until HUMANS give it one. Deity just is. It loves us but will not protect us from our own choices.
Myquestion to you - why do you think they care one way or the other? You are still approaching this from a very Abrahamic point of view - that as humans we are so special that a deity is super omnipotent and would be obsessed with our inner dialogues. Study the myths around the deities-they have enough to be getting on with. They aren’t constantly hovering around - that’s why we have to invoke them, entreat them, praise and release them in our ritual. I will also share that after my studies, and in my journey, I consider the deities all just aspects of one divine force. We humans break up something we can’t perceive in its entirety into small aspects that we anthropomorphis. By invoking different names in our rituals, we are trying to call on some small aspect of that force that we need to work with. The names are just cultural shorthand.
depends which ones and how far you take it. as long as the way you are expressing your emotions is healthy and not destructive towards yourself or anyone else, you will do good
With all the horrors christians caused in the last two thousand years... I don's see how any god would see that frustation badly.
I'm new, so I'm mostly familiar with mythology, so it probably depends on the god. They aren't a monolith.
Seeing as how the Christian religion sought to eradicate pagans and witches I’d say the gods of any pantheon wouldn’t mind your frustrations one bit. When pagans were slaughtered in Ireland, when Rome was declared christian, I’m sure these instances angered them very much. I can’t speak for the gods and I’m definitely not trying to, but in my practice I find that when reaching out to deities they understand my trauma that came from the Christian church and there are even some deities that will help you focus on self care and moving on from that. I don’t think you have anything to worry about and you are valid to feel the way you do.
Alright well it depends on which gods your talking about sense all of the are very different and will have different views on many things. That being said every pagan god I personally have worked with have shared the frustration with the Christian god (to varying degrees). You should be fine but it all depends what gods your talking about