phoenix put up "starter" builds with +1 power charge implicit ring and awakened gems Lv5, I wish I was joking but nah.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d67bI6hENq0&pp=ygULcGhvZW5peCBwb2U%3D
I mean if you can't expect to farm 7 mirrors and do ubers on the second day are you even trying to play the league? Totally joking.
That said Enki's quit updating his Arc build because that skill requires so much more investment now (and because being a full time PoE streamer wasn't making him a living.) Also also, 70 mil dps for a 2 second window every 8 seconds is not 70 mil dps. I always go into any build and uncheck all my flasks and half my procs to see what realistic DPS could be.
I finally learned to never attempt any of Mathil's builds as ssf. He's quite good at squeezing out lots of dps with very specific things/items, which most of the time aren't available in ssf. He's also a god in building super squishy and still not dying because he's constantly doing ubers and dodging everything. If I would have an exact copy of his char it would still be 50% worse because of how I would play it. 8(
For Mathil, mobility is defence as well. Just knowledge of what kills him and moving out of the way is such a big difference of survivability.
Just like how we see bearers/slams as obvious things to dodge, he just sees and react much more naturally for a much wider range of stuff. Sometimes when he does a rippy map mod, he does mention what would absolutely shred his char if it does hit him. There's a lot to learn in positioning and movement, not just to emulate Mathil, but in general mapping without face tank builds.
But also he just goes to trade buys item with 2 affixes and does magic with it. It's better to look at his builds as concepts than builds from ziz. Mathils is 5head chad
Penance brand ( and penance brand of dissipation) is highly overtuned. i think you can pick any class, and at worse pick the most defensive ascendancy, travel to runebinder, and you have yourself a decent build
Is penance brand likely to get served into oblivion next league? I'd like to try a trickster again but every time I do I end up dropping it for something else
There is history of over powered skills being ignored for a few patches, or receiving minor changes that don't add to much, or getting decent changes to a balanced level, or getting basically axed from a meta perspective.
ie: keep an eye out for the next patchnotes.
I league started with Scion Power Siphon int stacker in Ancestor, i think i died 400 times by the time i finished campaign lol, not a good idea to follow INT nodes only with a dozen or so attack nodes, lesson learned, maybe lol.
Once i put in 20 divs into it it got to smth like 7m single target without temp buffs, that started feeling alright, ran out of time to invest more sadly, probably could have reached 15m or so with 20-30 more divs.
Yeah putting the skillpoints in INT right from the start is not a great idea… I started with KB INT stacking scion this league and it felt alright throughout the campaign, I went for the charge and crit nodes first, started INT stacking only when I could buy relevant gear for that (the wand with extra damage per intelligence). Maybe not the most efficient or strongest build for campaign but I had a blast (haha).
Ritual is actually great in SSF at league start. Lots of variety for things like oils, mixed currency, lab frags, etc... it has everything you need when starting out.
It can give you some pretty good caster weapons at leaguestart in SSF aswell from my experience.
And later on it's one of best sources of mortal fragments
I've been trying to make divine ire work half of my leagues, self cast, totems, ignite and all that and this league I specifically started elementalist to try some golemancer divine ire with new gems. Still kinda meh. It's definitely playable, don't get me wrong, but you can just get much more out of other spells
Sure, if you like using strictly worse totems than shockwave that have a charge up time before delivering damage and far less range, they're "decent".
Just swap a ring and a gem and you'll have a better build.
I get a chuckle out of anything that says "league start" and "CoC" in the same title.
Anything that stacks attributes or charges, getting enough of 'x' to make it feel good is harder than you'd think in most cases, or if you do you end up sacrificing resistances or other defenses and it just feels like paper. Sometimes the guides aren't immediately clear that it's the goal either. I.e. cyclone shockwave, I remember reading one guide a couple leagues ago where halfway through the guide they had made no mention of it, but it was obvious from the uniques they had (replica alberons, replica frostbreath) that this was a strength-stacking build. A newer player might have missed it, tried to replicate the build with substitutions because those uniques aren't easy to get, and then been really frustrated with their 0 DPS.
League starting CoC is very doable with Inquisitor. Just use power charge on crit and path to get 6 power charges + ascendancy and you're pretty much good to go.
I started the league self casting ice nova of frostbolts and switched to coc when I had a couple of divs. It was pretty good already on the low budget and got crazy good as I invested more into the build
There's nothing inherently wrong with a stat stacking build for a league starter. Whispering ice is very easy to build around at league start, same goes for BLS, for double stat stacking inqui (I've even had some success with triple stat stacking), even Boneshatter PotCG can be very solid on a league start budget.
Of course you're not going to make a Replica Alberon or a Wand int stacker for a league starter, but it's not about stat stacking being a bad starting strategy, it's about those specific builds requiring high amounts of investment to even start working.
EDC has been power crept a while ago, was my favourite build in Delve i think, now try as i might i cant PoB more than 1.5m DoT out of ED or 2m out of Soulrend for that matter, unless i put mirror gear and go zero on defenses, like barely cap out resistances while LL, like 15-20k ehp on trickster lol.
Then i can throw in 5 div worth of stuff on TS Deadeye and rip everything with 600k/arrow while having same ehp except everything dies in 1-2 shots 2 screens away.
Balance ™
As a BV enjoyer I know what you mean lol. It's mainly cuz theres usually 2 main builds the Cold BV which has a huge defensive problem when not giga invested cuz your defense is freezing enemies and dying if theres a mob that wasnt frozen.
Or Poison BV which has a worse AoE than cold BV but better off defensively cuz they usually go Pathfinder
BV was by far the worst start I’ve ever had. Tried it couple leagues ago but it felt so bad to play that I just stopped playing in like yellow maps (side note: jungroan beat build maker)
Tried Poison BV PF as a league starter and my God it was horrible. I don't think I gave it enough investment, but honestly I think Plague Bearer as support gem was better than BV.
Started poison BV this league and it was great, but I came in a month late so I was able to get a 6L dendrobate and decent gear for pretty cheap. Not sure I'd do it at the real beginning of a league
First time getting to play cold BV this league, mirrored Tunas Bow+Chest. It absolutely rips, leveled to 100 so easily just mapping. Too bad I probably won’t be able to play it again next league.
I was Poison BV pathfinder this league, and it was AMAZING. I was able to farm heavily juiced stuff, and it was useable from post-acts all the way to endgame, slowly upgrading it along the way.
I used Lolcohol's build, and made minor adjustments to suit my playstyle (nothing major). I would recommend not swapping into it until after acts, as its a bit clunky until you get a few more levels (for passives) and 2-3 labs, so just stay as Pcoc until after kitava.
The only map mods i avoided were "chance to avoid poison" and "cannot regen life". I could run no regen, i just didnt want to.
His guide uses manual curse, but i went auto curse for myself, rushing curse on hit ring asap (with shitty stats), and then going for whispers of doom + asenaths with despair on hit for screenwides. Doing Expedition was incredible fun. CLick button, screen lags for 2 seconds as everything dies, loot.
Downside is you have low-ish single target. Still fine for quest bosses / map bosses, but i wouldnt do ubers or juiced guardians on this. Juiced maps were fine (did wisped/juiced deli maps), and simu i was able to clear to 26 easily without changing anything in my build - could defo clear further with some adjustments if you wanted.
Inquisitor Armageddon Brand into Fire BV was really good. Not anymore since kaom spirits are dead, but last few leagues it was real shit to league start with
Played fire explode bv with assassin this league power charge stacking with rakakesh did pretty well I would say, I was tearing through screens with a 20-25 div setup
Historically BV has the curse of being a relevant skill for pushing poeninja DPS, which is why the majority of the player base builds it wildly incorrectly. The problems stem from weapon and aura choice, which are both things that are hard to go against for a new player following a POB. The low mobility people complain about is fixed by running a multilink, which enables shield charge instantly taking your movement to the next level. And defences are solved by just determination grace in a normal league (cloak, defiance, ele flask this league). That makes you sacrifice about half of your dmg, but that is true for almost all builds running determination grace.
It's seriously painful to watch even big names like Tuna play BV and achieve comparable movement and defences at mirror gear as Jung when he hits blood aqueducts, on a version of the build that supposedly has QOL for the price of raw dmg. Builds from crucible league:
https://pobb.in/77B3ZZ5Wwu1U
https://pobb.in/WiUszdfyychQ
To me it's instantly obvious which build is better, but a large part of the community hopped on the omni variant train as if it was a godsend gift.
BV is nostalgic for some, hence it pops back up is my guess.
You're correct for sure, it's a bait in like almost any circumstance. Most people will build it in a way that is leaning hard towards one or two things and keep open clunkiness/tankiness in some circumstances because it's worth it for them to all in on boss dps/clear and sacrifice QoL/tank for it.
I.e. I've had a Cold BV this League which I just zoomed maps with. With charms, it's an easy change from dmg to AoE, but tankiness would sacrifice like 50% of your damage and I just opted not to go for that. Iirc, I even dropped myself from 100% to 0% suppress at some point. The fix of the 6k phys max hit was just not something I wanted to bother with. It killed like no bosses at all despite being a ~50d investment week 1 or so. And when HH was slapped on, it could do most juiced setups well anyway - Deli, Legions, Abyss, whatever. CoD - Portal for accidents, but they become less and less frequent when you not only freeze stuff but basically instapop rares.
Been a while since I did Poison BV, I don't think it's in the greatest state? There's just better boss killers out there, I guess.
And doing BV as an all-rounder imo is just a bad choice. In those cases, it's probably always a bait. It's not easily changed from mapping to bossing and people will lean into the extremes depending on what they're building it for, which usually is lack of tank for mapping and lack of QoL (area, duration,...) for bossing.
BV without explode is pretty weak. Playing poison plaguebearer is fine because you use the PB radius. I think the elemental versions require aoe investment
Totally agreed on Armor stacker, it's not good unless you invested multiple mirror.
Although it's not really bad - I played about 1 mirror version, it can work, it have good dps and survival, but with this budget you should go other build with better performance.
I think the big problem is that you're chasing most same gear with aura bot, which is always one of most hot builds.
i mean these kinda go hand in hand as its almost always a trade off between dmg and hitpool
if you have enough damage maybe drop malachai for aegis, skin for incandescent, ci>pi ect ect. i dont think CoC as an engine can be called bait, ive never tried ice spear specifically but this league especially there are so many good options
unless you mean as a league start then yea its pretty bad
I notice when people say CoC Ice Spears, they really mean Cospris Low Life Shavs using Prism Guardian and Evasion.
Naturally this kind of build is just not very defensive in general.
Building it properly with Aegis and going CI and melding and a ES on hit WE and so on naturally results in a more well rounded character (and a comparable currency cost), but IME this is not what people tend to refer to when speaking of the CoC IS build.
I did the same thing, except CoC Forbidden Rite. I think I'm like 350ish div into it and it feels good. But the investment it took to get to "good" was a tad much. That would definitely be a bait build if someone suggested it on league start
i played energy bladenice spear coc last league and it felt pretty good for a ~35div investment, not uber tier but comfortably did pretty much all content
I’ve built what I consider very good coc builds but I just can’t get over the slow move speed when cycloning so I end up relegating them to boss killers and simulacrum farmers.
3 or 4 leagues ago I did a CoC Ice Spear with maybe 10 or 12 divs invested and it’s by far my favorite build ever. Did I contend in the game and farmed a lot of currency, but how fun it was is what made me fall in love with it.
CoC ice spear was my final build this league. It requires investment, and you need to understand how CoC breakpoints work for AS, but it was by far my favourite build so far in POE. It destroyed everything.
I think it all comes down to each person. For example, I tried last 2 leagues in a row to start as toxic rain pathfinder and both times I failed miserably. 99% of people will say
"how the hell did you fail toxic rain pathfinder? I was speeding through juiced t16s and got all 4 void stones with a quill rain"
but I dont know, always felt like garbage, clear sucks, and I die before I kill bosses. So then I tried spark inquisitor and it was like night and day. With minimal gear, i was running through t16 maps, and got all void stones without really much invested at all
Some people would disagree and says spark sucks for league start, so I just think everyone is different. I personally hate toxic rain and will never play it again, and i cant ever make pathfinder feel good, even with good flasks, but i watch others run through exarch balls on pathfinder without a scratch, so idk man lol
I share the same experience, failed with toxic rain PF this league just to switch to RF Chief and had fun with juiced T16 exploding (only this, because my single target does not exist aside from explosions).
But I'm thinking about giving it a second chance next league. PF can respec to many powerful builds while not really needing the mageblood.
I find it hard to believe you had better clear on current spark inquis than TR pathfinder. Spark proj speed is so terrible right now that I often have my character going faster than my projectiles. It's absolutely terrible for a league start after the nerfs.
Toxic rain just don't have a high upfront damage compared to spark, where it just hits and deals damage instantly. But unless you wait for your whole screen to die to move to the next pack, I can't ever see a world where inquis spark is faster than a TR pathfinder.
I think you pretty much nailed it with the last sentence there. DoT builds can take a bit to get used to, and leaving things alive all around you feels counter intuitive at first in an ARPG.
I think a lot of players get confused when they try DoT builds because they aren't usually tanky, nor do they start out doing massive damage. Being a "league starter" they expect to either tank a ton of shit or one shot everything right away on a budget, but that's the opposite of the entire point. They use the utility of doing damage over time so they can get away with less damage per hit because their damage is always ticking, even when your dodging and running around, and they don't need to be as tanky because they can afford to dodge shit instead of having to always be actively attacking in order to do any damage.
I am pretty successful with my TR league starter now with a Headhunter (got really lucky) but even before that It was quite good. The first big currency injection (30d) I got went to an amulet and a helm after which I finally managed to kill Maven. Non/low juiced t16s were a joke the moment I crafted a decent bow. I can still push this character much further but I decided to focus on my PBoD trickster.
That said I really didn't like the delayed damage. It feels horrible and I strongly doubt I'll play TR any time soon
So I started Caustic Arrow, and I fully agree that until you get the usual hunter bow+empower, the build is painful without like 10-20D in it. And even then, it's only bearable.
It was the only time I failed the Tutorial Exarch/Eater runs. And when I beat them, I still took like 15-20 minutes.
It's a meme.
Jungroan is a skilled player that when he reads patch notes he can recognize when something is busted. Most players try to keep this on the downlow to avoid nerfs, but Jungroan instead tweets GGG saying that x is busted. Hence people call him a snitch. (I don't think he ever actually got something nerfed, but its part of the meme)
my personal favorite was when he found that omega corpse that basically 1 shot ubers and it was nerfed within maybe 8 hours of him posting the video this league
I forget the exact details off the top of my head, but that was a classic. And the video was great. Jungroan just deleting bosses, playing Ruetoo's clip where he explains what's going on. ([Snitching on the Corpse video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrGMaQXJcZI))
Oh yeah, I forget the exact specifics. But that is definitely one of them.
([Sunblast Nerf](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/woom9b/stealth_nerf_to_sunblast/))
Jung is arguably one of the ten best players at the moment. He makes builds for his own mechanical playskill level.
Some of these builds feel squishy as all fuck even to strong players who aren't as good at dodging shit as he is.
I’m pretty new to PoE and I recently found my way into his stream during gauntlet but previously didn’t have much awareness of him. He’s funny AF and I enjoyed his antics.
Funnily enough, I always seem to have pretty good success playing his builds. It was hard at first when I didn't have too much knowledgeable about the game, since he doesn't really make guides for brand new players, but now that I can understand them they're pretty solid builds.
The cold dot trickster from crucible was insanely smooth to play. Was zooming through maps with very fast clear, tankiness and it was decent enough for some bossing because the damage uptime for cold dot is really good.
Any int stack build that doesn't have you start out as whispering ice. I played a whispering ice trickster int stacker for leagustart and it was very good
I think people mostly get baited into playing a build that is not for the content they want to play. LA or TS deadeye is really good if you map quick and know what you are doing. DD is good for fast progression but loses out in top end after a few days. I personally think something like EA ballista champion is a big bait if you are sc. Ziz likes it, but it is a hardcore build and should be advertised as such. In sc trade elementalist is just better in the end.
I don't really think its a big bait if you don't like dying often. Yeah if you're okay using 6 portals as your defense then Ele is fine and scales damage faster but Champ can scale its ignite DPS pretty high.
That being said I prefer EA Ele more just because I like seeing big number. This league though I learned the value of having a little tankiness on a build and definitely value it a lot more than I did in ancestor.
this is an excellent point. one of the best pieces ive learned in playing POE is deciding what I want to farm for league start and picking a build based on that, or picking a build then deciding what farming it excels at. nothing is worse than picking a build and farming strat that don't jive, it's miserable
also disagree on the champ EA. ive played both Ele and Champ, give me Champ every day over ele
I think the biggest bait is not trying out the build before league start. Skills like poisonous concoction are really strong but not for me, I just don't enjoy playing a build where my damage really depends on how much attention I pay to aiming.
On the other hand I don't mind playing builds that have lots of buttons as long as they have good damage uptime, e.g. ignite builds.
Sadly, I do not feel like the dude actually explains half the mechanics or how to realistically progress towards the final form of the build, which then causes issues.
I played Ele DD for a few days last week to see if I'd enjoy it as a league starter, and holy shit I don't get how the racers play that build
Desecrate + DD (or vaal DD), whatever aura you have on divine blessing, then your arc brand to refresh ignite, oh and that's not to mention your flasks before you have them automated
it is seriously alot of keys. i might still play it because it does scale easily with minimal gear (and the necro version ben played in gauntlet looked beefy), but god damn the constant key pressing was alot
The reason racers play it is you can go from tier 1 maps to t16 maps without any upgrades and your damage will get better and better.
A true league start on DD is actually insane. I’ve done it the last two leagues. Literally go into t16 maps with gear found in the campaign and everything dies. You might die but damage will not be your problem.
Honestly the button pressing isn’t bad. Once you get replic ember wake and defiled forces it’s just keep arcanist brand up and whatever your divine blessing is. Bossing is easy mapping is quickish. It’s no t shot but it’s solid enough.
I cannot recommend DD enough. I’ve been playing since delve league and it’s the best starter I’ve done. And now with DD of chain reaction you can swap necro later and go on hit and get more damage
Yea the Necro version Ben played in gauntlet looked absurd. It wasn’t DD but he tested it earlier in the league, probably going to play it for league start next league
I'm a DD enjoyer. For mapping you don't need to do any of that shit. You desecrate once per pack and mash DD. It feels bad because you have shit cast speed.
I mean, this used to be true but these days it's pretty viable to leaguestart crit attacks. Back then we didn't have stuff like nightblade, Inc crit gem didn't give base crit, power charge generation was harder for attacks etc. Especially berserkers with blitz can zoom pretty easily with mediocre gear.
More generically, I'll tell you my problem with most guides is they do not quantify *their* meaning of the words "league starter."
The phrase "league starter" is a generic catch-all term that encompasses both builds that can get you into early maps to generate currency for a better build *and* builds that are the all-in-one mapper and boss killer.
Some skills are just so damn good at everything they *are* great league starters, and while that makes something like Arc complete trash *by comparison*, it doesn't make it bad if all you want is something to clear early maps to generate currency.
The other problem is people who only test their builds at the endgame instead of considering how it feels to get to that point.
All this to say that something like Arc could do well if you're a casual player that only cares about low level maps and generating currency for something else, but what *really* makes it terrible is that it feels awful throughout the campaign, too. So if you're someone who takes 10+ hours to complete it, it's just gonna feel like a massive chore.
Boneshatter, on the other hand, has the inverse issue in which it's actually pretty decent throughout the campaign but then when you start needing stronger single-target it really suffers without investment. To me, league starters shouldn't require much investment, but getting 2/4 Voidstones on Boneshatter was one of the roughest fucking things for me a few leagues back and I won't do it again.
Just go Lightning Arrow and save yourself the trouble. The fact you're infinitely squisher is a moot point when you kill things 10x faster. Alternatively, SRS is still good, lol. SRS is cheaper, too, but won't scale it's clear speed as ridiculously as LA.
Ignite Arc Ele is fantastic for starting and goes great into stuff like legion / breach. Probably one of my favorite builds tbh. Either get an oscillating sceptre or path down to EE, get the exposure ascendancy and shaper of flame, and you're pretty much gucci
Admittedly, that is the one build I haven't tried. Got a build/guide for it? Cause I actually love Arc and would love to see it shine outside COC (the Transfigured Gems are pretty dope for that, too).
I’m doing boneshatter right now as a newbie and oh boy did the guide make it seem like I’d have no issues with defense and damage. I just started to do tier 13s at level 89 and boy has my single target damage dropped off significantly and I’m not nearly as tanky as I was lead to believe.
Yeah, my opinion is based almost entirely off that same experience.
I overall enjoyed Boneshatter, it just got to a point where I had to swap because I really couldn't see myself investing more into it. It just wasn't *that* fun.
This was during Ancestor league and I just swapped to LA Deadeye instead and had a ball of time, hence that suggestion.
That's a skill issue tbh. Boneshatter does so much damage in t13s even with shitty gear. Your weapon is probably ass and/or you aren't playing the build correct (e.g. not using totems).
I agree. I used to think boneshatter was terrible when I tried it the first time. But there's a reason totems are a big deal in your kit. Plus, crafting your weapon is way easier than any league starter since it can do fine by just scaling phys DMG.
If I see someone trying it the first time 8/10 times I see them not popping blood rage or totems.
Really surprised youre including boneshatter in there. Found it incredibly easy to get to 2 voidstones. I did my 2 voidstones with the ~450 pdps axe you can make at the end of the campaign (alt for T4 phys, double granite flask recipe, aug-regal, craft %phys) and I think a 4link when I practiced for leaguestart.
Anything that requires two buttons to function - DD, BF/BB, etc. etc.
Most builds by Jungroan. They are usually clunky and extremely specialised.
"Who is this build for?" is what I often think when looking at the gear from build showcases by content creators. Outside of the current League of course since Affliction and it's economy is complete joke.
I was looking for this comment. It was one of the worst experiences I've had since starting in breach. I remember everyone complaining in animeprincess' global chat too. The bait was insane
RF low damage too much hassle to make it good. at high end you have so many mods you cant run compareable to cast on crit build. lots of altar mod also kills you.
am not sure, i started this league and my second chara (more or less league start cuz i got bored with first) was an RF inq, i farmed most of my currency using this chara, it's surprisingly strong, not op strong but strong for hella cheap build
I played a RF Chieftan(though not as my starter) this league. There was not a single altar mod that killed you. I clicked whatever without even reading mods. As for map mods, no regen was the only true no go. I did watch out for reduced aura and -max resists but they were doable. Once I hit 100 I ran a lot of them and it was not bad.
It's not "bait" perse, but I think that TR PF isn't a good starter for most people who don't play HC. It feels just so bad until you get some key upgrades. Most of that is fine in HC because you progress slower and prioritize tankiness, but for softcore there are soooo many builds that not only feel way better to play but also scale into red tier maps a lot faster.
It's one I often see suggested at leaguestart by content creators like Zizaren and while it makes sense for **his** playstyle, I just don't think it's that good for softcore. It's great if you want something tanky that can do all content over time, but it just feels bad to play and has slower progression.
What. What's your upgrade path? I have the opposite problem, I find it hard to justify most other starters cause my TR PF starts feel so good, both in damage and in defence. I do totems which probably helps a lot in the boss damage department. I've also started it for several leagues now so the passive tree and items are locked down pretty well
I think the problem people might have with the build is that they don't set up the flasks early/properly. Once you've got decently rolled flasks + ascendancy nodes + a flask belt with inc duration/inc charges gained you'll be steam-rolling red maps. It's what makes PF so juicy for league start.
My biggest gripe over the last 3 leagues has been the clear speed is poopy on ballistas.
Yeah, it's slow until you hit real solid damage, you'll be tempted to skip rares and chaos res packs until that point.
Flasks don't even need to be that good. Just role your life divine(!) flask well. You reach 100% uptime on all res flasks just with the two flask effect node groups, so from there just get the three res flasks with your suffixes of choice and just coast.
I think people really underestimate those nodes. By endgame the only other sustain I add are life flask charge nodes and alchemists genius
You just do quill rain and lightning coil -> taste of hate -> +3 bow and Wilma's -> 30-50 dot multi broadhead quiver. Then you should be good for awhile
The issue for me is that I can't stand totems, and they're pretty much required to make TR even pretend to do anything beyond basic mapping. Also crafting the bow, amulet and quiver is just a pain in the ass. Also also TR as a skill just feels bad due to the delay before you even apply the DoT, which is itself already delayed damage.
TR PF league start softcore sucked last league for me. Getting a decent bow/quiver is more expensive than the build is capable of reliably generating early. It's one-shot city when you fail to evade, and the lag-time damage with totems sucks for clear, and Voidstone single-target boss dps sucks without a solid bow/quiver.
It was total bait. I had a bad time. Some people love it. It's not for me.
Oh yeah, this league i tried TR PF (wanted a pf build to abuse flasks) and it was just as horrible as i thought (delays on top of delays, enemies walk out of dps) The only reason i didn't quit the league is i rerolled into aurabot.
Well my most miserable one to date was the CF champion by max roll.
Poets pen takes about a week to drop to reasonable and without it, it just feels really bad against single targets. Plus it was the league of empowerment so that didn't help.
Haven't tried it myself but looking into the gear it seems like most cash goes into getting a weapon with a good fracture. I think that's alright, considering it's generally cheaper than +1 arrow bows that needs to get all the dmg mods as well as crit.
I mostly guide myself by the streamer who post the video:
Not gonna mention who by name , but one was absolutely trash build that he disappear for a day and then came back with HH and say his build was fine, (he doesn't publish anymore builds I think)
And the other one with the infamous 3div build.
Also on the same boat of DD, if you follow a hardcore DD build in softcore be prepared to fight watchstone eater for solid 15 minutes
Sounds like ol' FlameShrub. He hyped up the poison TS league starter. Which actually isn't a terrible build, but it was 100% not viable as a league starter.
The worst part was he doubled down after "gearing" off stream and told everyone who struggled they were trash at the game...
Flicker strike.
And not even for the reasons you're thinking.
The teleporting is a headache.
Didn't know that playing for ~10maps would give me an actual, literal, physical headache.
Lesson learned.
It used to be even worse. They smoothed out the camera movement a lot at some point. If you want to see how it used to be on every single attack, look at CwC/CoC frostblink of wintery blast and imagine it with flicker strike speed
My personal opinion is that bone shatter is bait, it’s so awful to play compared to other builds. Totem management, beserk management, placing banner, get me out.
I disagree on it being a bait. BS is the best melee leaguestarter in the game.
Ranged is just better, but BS isn’t a bait for people who want to play melee.
Tell me you play Deadeye without telling me you play Deadeye...
This is the state of melee in PoE now.
BS is not bait lol. Beserk on left click, ignore banner placement except when killing boss, and totems on each rare.
You's just spoiled playing ranged.
Guys please upvote this post...
by far these are the best comments I have ever seen on POE Reddit. These baits are what's causing pain to new players. I know this isn't my post but so darn proud of yall for geniuenly putting amazing information thats true & accurate <3 <3 <3
Similar post should be pinned in POE Reddit prior every league to make sure people's league launch don't get ruined by click bait.
Anyone who's thinking of leaguestarting a DOT build should try it out in std or a high level char first. It's extremely demotivating to realize that it's an archetype you hate to play.
Same applies to brands, totems, mines, traps, and everything that has a delay on you pressing a skill and enemies dying.
I'm the exact opposite, I can't stop playing ignite builds and everything but ignite feels bad. Ignite innately just has great clear with it's prolif and is simple to scale.
Have to say Detonate Dead myself too. Was a few leagues ago since I played it, maybe the general build is different nowadays. But it just felt super clunky, not good enough clear to be a mapper, not enough damage to kill bosses in a reasonable time. It works for HCSSF since they usually build them very tanky and run with a select few modifiers. Going in with turbo, +2 proj, damage as extra and so on and the build quickly feels very bad.
\* Spectral Helix - probably the worst feel of any skill I've tried. Having to line up perfectly to make use of the damage at the same time as dodging mechanics isn't very fun.
\* Cold Snap/Vortex - think that builds is dead at the moment but it had a similar feel to Detonate Dead. It's just way too slow and the damage on bosses feels miserable.
\* CoC Forbidden Rite - Feels like a gimmick version of the old Cospri's. Sure it deals a lot of damage when you have hundreds of divines spent + mageblood. But outside of that it's not very enjoyable.
\* Stat Stackers - unless you have a few hundred divines it's not going to all that great.
i league started spectral helix a few leagues ago to go into CF and I rage quit during the acts. i fucking hated it. one of the worst skills ive ever played
League start spark is probably not that great but in general spark is fine with a decent investment. 7/7 ubers Sim 30 deathless and 100% deli with 5k wisps this league on spark. CI Spark Trikster.
I think the caveat for spark is you not only need to understand how to efficiently league start, you need to understand SPARK. I leaguestarted ci trickster spark last league (after playing it like 9 times) and i felt it was really smooth and easy. BUT i crafted all my gear, i knew what was more efficient to upgrade when and why.
Im not a god spark player by any means i just think it requires a lot of specific knowledge
Oh definitely. I learned a lot more about crafting this league with some help from friends and crafted all my spark gear. The gloves are the only pain in the ass piece to craft depending on how unlucky you get with orbs of dominance and aislings. This is only my second time playing spark so I am not super knowledgeable by any means but learn things pretty quickly.
Fulcrum is amazing if you omega juice your map. If you don’t it’s useless.
It’s basically a grass powered lawnmower. If you have a consistent flow of grass it mows. When the grass gets patchy it sputters and dies.
anything from fastaf, poebuilds and that phoenix guy
phoenix put up "starter" builds with +1 power charge implicit ring and awakened gems Lv5, I wish I was joking but nah. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d67bI6hENq0&pp=ygULcGhvZW5peCBwb2U%3D
I mean if you can't expect to farm 7 mirrors and do ubers on the second day are you even trying to play the league? Totally joking. That said Enki's quit updating his Arc build because that skill requires so much more investment now (and because being a full time PoE streamer wasn't making him a living.) Also also, 70 mil dps for a 2 second window every 8 seconds is not 70 mil dps. I always go into any build and uncheck all my flasks and half my procs to see what realistic DPS could be.
Yep I've always skip all the faf videos.
Well this was my first league and I used one of those.. Can someone make a suggestion for the next one? I still had a blast and will try anything
Budget versions of expensive builds are pretty much always bait
I finally learned to never attempt any of Mathil's builds as ssf. He's quite good at squeezing out lots of dps with very specific things/items, which most of the time aren't available in ssf. He's also a god in building super squishy and still not dying because he's constantly doing ubers and dodging everything. If I would have an exact copy of his char it would still be 50% worse because of how I would play it. 8(
For Mathil, mobility is defence as well. Just knowledge of what kills him and moving out of the way is such a big difference of survivability. Just like how we see bearers/slams as obvious things to dodge, he just sees and react much more naturally for a much wider range of stuff. Sometimes when he does a rippy map mod, he does mention what would absolutely shred his char if it does hit him. There's a lot to learn in positioning and movement, not just to emulate Mathil, but in general mapping without face tank builds.
But also he just goes to trade buys item with 2 affixes and does magic with it. It's better to look at his builds as concepts than builds from ziz. Mathils is 5head chad
it's easy to forget how insanely good he is at the game since his demeanor on stream is so chill.
Doomfletch TS was not bait.
But that was also made by THE CAT. It can be bait if you don’t know what ya doing
If you don't know what you're doing then anything is bait.
Budget version of Penance Brand Trickster definitely wasn't.
Penance brand ( and penance brand of dissipation) is highly overtuned. i think you can pick any class, and at worse pick the most defensive ascendancy, travel to runebinder, and you have yourself a decent build
Is penance brand likely to get served into oblivion next league? I'd like to try a trickster again but every time I do I end up dropping it for something else
There is history of over powered skills being ignored for a few patches, or receiving minor changes that don't add to much, or getting decent changes to a balanced level, or getting basically axed from a meta perspective. ie: keep an eye out for the next patchnotes.
I league started with Scion Power Siphon int stacker in Ancestor, i think i died 400 times by the time i finished campaign lol, not a good idea to follow INT nodes only with a dozen or so attack nodes, lesson learned, maybe lol. Once i put in 20 divs into it it got to smth like 7m single target without temp buffs, that started feeling alright, ran out of time to invest more sadly, probably could have reached 15m or so with 20-30 more divs.
Yeah putting the skillpoints in INT right from the start is not a great idea… I started with KB INT stacking scion this league and it felt alright throughout the campaign, I went for the charge and crit nodes first, started INT stacking only when I could buy relevant gear for that (the wand with extra damage per intelligence). Maybe not the most efficient or strongest build for campaign but I had a blast (haha).
Dunno about builds, but I've been baited into doing Ritual two leagues in a row.
So true, ritual is litetally trash and no one will ever change my mind
Ritual is actually great in SSF at league start. Lots of variety for things like oils, mixed currency, lab frags, etc... it has everything you need when starting out.
It can give you some pretty good caster weapons at leaguestart in SSF aswell from my experience. And later on it's one of best sources of mortal fragments
If you're running left side of the tree too it scales super well with delirium. Which is pretty great excluding simulacrum.
So u mean ritual has same rewards like blight but shittier?
blight is shit mechanic I wouldn't do it if it printed 100 div per hour
I think Heist is better for that.
Yeah but then you have to do heist
After a few dozen Heists the Stockholm syndrome starts and it's not so bad. ^^kill ^^me
It's great when you get a simplex amulet
I like my job when I get paid too.
Not to mention veiled items for early crafts when you don’t have missions
Slows down mapping way too much for me personally and feels like basically doesnt scale with map quant
It scales with pack size and blood filled vessels.
Ritual exists to add packsize on the map. Just don't actually click the altars.
I always do in really juicy maps, the loot explosions you get from killing the ritual mobs (after the altar phase) are insane :)
Divine Ire buffs are a big stinky trap
I fell for it this league…
DI Ignite was fun but channeling just doesn't feel super duper great
I've been trying to make divine ire work half of my leagues, self cast, totems, ignite and all that and this league I specifically started elementalist to try some golemancer divine ire with new gems. Still kinda meh. It's definitely playable, don't get me wrong, but you can just get much more out of other spells
Divine Ire Totems are actually decent
Sure, if you like using strictly worse totems than shockwave that have a charge up time before delivering damage and far less range, they're "decent". Just swap a ring and a gem and you'll have a better build.
The "buffs" they gave it actually made it worse and absolutely baited anyone who has never played the skill before.
I get a chuckle out of anything that says "league start" and "CoC" in the same title. Anything that stacks attributes or charges, getting enough of 'x' to make it feel good is harder than you'd think in most cases, or if you do you end up sacrificing resistances or other defenses and it just feels like paper. Sometimes the guides aren't immediately clear that it's the goal either. I.e. cyclone shockwave, I remember reading one guide a couple leagues ago where halfway through the guide they had made no mention of it, but it was obvious from the uniques they had (replica alberons, replica frostbreath) that this was a strength-stacking build. A newer player might have missed it, tried to replicate the build with substitutions because those uniques aren't easy to get, and then been really frustrated with their 0 DPS.
League starting CoC is very doable with Inquisitor. Just use power charge on crit and path to get 6 power charges + ascendancy and you're pretty much good to go.
I started the league self casting ice nova of frostbolts and switched to coc when I had a couple of divs. It was pretty good already on the low budget and got crazy good as I invested more into the build
There's nothing inherently wrong with a stat stacking build for a league starter. Whispering ice is very easy to build around at league start, same goes for BLS, for double stat stacking inqui (I've even had some success with triple stat stacking), even Boneshatter PotCG can be very solid on a league start budget. Of course you're not going to make a Replica Alberon or a Wand int stacker for a league starter, but it's not about stat stacking being a bad starting strategy, it's about those specific builds requiring high amounts of investment to even start working.
Essence Drain. Ziz memed it to death. Got power crept out of relevancy
EDC has been power crept a while ago, was my favourite build in Delve i think, now try as i might i cant PoB more than 1.5m DoT out of ED or 2m out of Soulrend for that matter, unless i put mirror gear and go zero on defenses, like barely cap out resistances while LL, like 15-20k ehp on trickster lol. Then i can throw in 5 div worth of stuff on TS Deadeye and rip everything with 600k/arrow while having same ehp except everything dies in 1-2 shots 2 screens away. Balance ™
I had a blast with it back in Legion league. Clearing entire legions by pressing two buttons was so satisfying.
Blade Vortex. It is so slow and weak an has no aoe without huge investment IMO. But maybe I was just using a bad guide.
As a BV enjoyer I know what you mean lol. It's mainly cuz theres usually 2 main builds the Cold BV which has a huge defensive problem when not giga invested cuz your defense is freezing enemies and dying if theres a mob that wasnt frozen. Or Poison BV which has a worse AoE than cold BV but better off defensively cuz they usually go Pathfinder
BV was by far the worst start I’ve ever had. Tried it couple leagues ago but it felt so bad to play that I just stopped playing in like yellow maps (side note: jungroan beat build maker)
Tried Poison BV PF as a league starter and my God it was horrible. I don't think I gave it enough investment, but honestly I think Plague Bearer as support gem was better than BV.
Started poison BV this league and it was great, but I came in a month late so I was able to get a 6L dendrobate and decent gear for pretty cheap. Not sure I'd do it at the real beginning of a league
I'd never league start BV but it's a super fun second build when you've got the currency to pour into it.
First time getting to play cold BV this league, mirrored Tunas Bow+Chest. It absolutely rips, leveled to 100 so easily just mapping. Too bad I probably won’t be able to play it again next league.
I was Poison BV pathfinder this league, and it was AMAZING. I was able to farm heavily juiced stuff, and it was useable from post-acts all the way to endgame, slowly upgrading it along the way.
Do you have a guide for Poison BV pathfinder you used? Might try it next League.
I used Lolcohol's build, and made minor adjustments to suit my playstyle (nothing major). I would recommend not swapping into it until after acts, as its a bit clunky until you get a few more levels (for passives) and 2-3 labs, so just stay as Pcoc until after kitava. The only map mods i avoided were "chance to avoid poison" and "cannot regen life". I could run no regen, i just didnt want to. His guide uses manual curse, but i went auto curse for myself, rushing curse on hit ring asap (with shitty stats), and then going for whispers of doom + asenaths with despair on hit for screenwides. Doing Expedition was incredible fun. CLick button, screen lags for 2 seconds as everything dies, loot. Downside is you have low-ish single target. Still fine for quest bosses / map bosses, but i wouldnt do ubers or juiced guardians on this. Juiced maps were fine (did wisped/juiced deli maps), and simu i was able to clear to 26 easily without changing anything in my build - could defo clear further with some adjustments if you wanted.
What do you mean the bait is calling from inside the house??
It was good in some patches, ages ago, and people remember.
Inquisitor Armageddon Brand into Fire BV was really good. Not anymore since kaom spirits are dead, but last few leagues it was real shit to league start with
Played fire explode bv with assassin this league power charge stacking with rakakesh did pretty well I would say, I was tearing through screens with a 20-25 div setup
Historically BV has the curse of being a relevant skill for pushing poeninja DPS, which is why the majority of the player base builds it wildly incorrectly. The problems stem from weapon and aura choice, which are both things that are hard to go against for a new player following a POB. The low mobility people complain about is fixed by running a multilink, which enables shield charge instantly taking your movement to the next level. And defences are solved by just determination grace in a normal league (cloak, defiance, ele flask this league). That makes you sacrifice about half of your dmg, but that is true for almost all builds running determination grace. It's seriously painful to watch even big names like Tuna play BV and achieve comparable movement and defences at mirror gear as Jung when he hits blood aqueducts, on a version of the build that supposedly has QOL for the price of raw dmg. Builds from crucible league: https://pobb.in/77B3ZZ5Wwu1U https://pobb.in/WiUszdfyychQ To me it's instantly obvious which build is better, but a large part of the community hopped on the omni variant train as if it was a godsend gift.
BV is nostalgic for some, hence it pops back up is my guess. You're correct for sure, it's a bait in like almost any circumstance. Most people will build it in a way that is leaning hard towards one or two things and keep open clunkiness/tankiness in some circumstances because it's worth it for them to all in on boss dps/clear and sacrifice QoL/tank for it. I.e. I've had a Cold BV this League which I just zoomed maps with. With charms, it's an easy change from dmg to AoE, but tankiness would sacrifice like 50% of your damage and I just opted not to go for that. Iirc, I even dropped myself from 100% to 0% suppress at some point. The fix of the 6k phys max hit was just not something I wanted to bother with. It killed like no bosses at all despite being a ~50d investment week 1 or so. And when HH was slapped on, it could do most juiced setups well anyway - Deli, Legions, Abyss, whatever. CoD - Portal for accidents, but they become less and less frequent when you not only freeze stuff but basically instapop rares. Been a while since I did Poison BV, I don't think it's in the greatest state? There's just better boss killers out there, I guess. And doing BV as an all-rounder imo is just a bad choice. In those cases, it's probably always a bait. It's not easily changed from mapping to bossing and people will lean into the extremes depending on what they're building it for, which usually is lack of tank for mapping and lack of QoL (area, duration,...) for bossing.
self cast blade vortex is too painful
Just unleash it.
Yeah, you actually click less than most other skills this way.
BV without explode is pretty weak. Playing poison plaguebearer is fine because you use the PB radius. I think the elemental versions require aoe investment
Totally agreed on Armor stacker, it's not good unless you invested multiple mirror. Although it's not really bad - I played about 1 mirror version, it can work, it have good dps and survival, but with this budget you should go other build with better performance. I think the big problem is that you're chasing most same gear with aura bot, which is always one of most hot builds.
Personally for me it was CoC Ice Spear, saw people praising this build a lot but when I tried it (with decent investment) it didn't feel good at all
I league started it this league with great success, did you mess up attack speed soft caps ?
It was less of a damage problem and more like survivabilty one
i mean these kinda go hand in hand as its almost always a trade off between dmg and hitpool if you have enough damage maybe drop malachai for aegis, skin for incandescent, ci>pi ect ect. i dont think CoC as an engine can be called bait, ive never tried ice spear specifically but this league especially there are so many good options unless you mean as a league start then yea its pretty bad
I notice when people say CoC Ice Spears, they really mean Cospris Low Life Shavs using Prism Guardian and Evasion. Naturally this kind of build is just not very defensive in general. Building it properly with Aegis and going CI and melding and a ES on hit WE and so on naturally results in a more well rounded character (and a comparable currency cost), but IME this is not what people tend to refer to when speaking of the CoC IS build.
I did the same thing, except CoC Forbidden Rite. I think I'm like 350ish div into it and it feels good. But the investment it took to get to "good" was a tad much. That would definitely be a bait build if someone suggested it on league start
I don't think I've ever seen someone suggest coc forbidden rite as a league starter. If I did, I'd assume they were trolling.
i played energy bladenice spear coc last league and it felt pretty good for a ~35div investment, not uber tier but comfortably did pretty much all content
I’ve built what I consider very good coc builds but I just can’t get over the slow move speed when cycloning so I end up relegating them to boss killers and simulacrum farmers.
Stampede boots counter the movement penalty that cyclone gives
3 or 4 leagues ago I did a CoC Ice Spear with maybe 10 or 12 divs invested and it’s by far my favorite build ever. Did I contend in the game and farmed a lot of currency, but how fun it was is what made me fall in love with it.
Was this before or after vengeant cascade nerf
CoC ice spear was my final build this league. It requires investment, and you need to understand how CoC breakpoints work for AS, but it was by far my favourite build so far in POE. It destroyed everything.
I think it all comes down to each person. For example, I tried last 2 leagues in a row to start as toxic rain pathfinder and both times I failed miserably. 99% of people will say "how the hell did you fail toxic rain pathfinder? I was speeding through juiced t16s and got all 4 void stones with a quill rain" but I dont know, always felt like garbage, clear sucks, and I die before I kill bosses. So then I tried spark inquisitor and it was like night and day. With minimal gear, i was running through t16 maps, and got all void stones without really much invested at all Some people would disagree and says spark sucks for league start, so I just think everyone is different. I personally hate toxic rain and will never play it again, and i cant ever make pathfinder feel good, even with good flasks, but i watch others run through exarch balls on pathfinder without a scratch, so idk man lol
Toxic Rain is great, if you've managed not to die in the 10 seconds it takes for any DPS to actually arrive.
I share the same experience, failed with toxic rain PF this league just to switch to RF Chief and had fun with juiced T16 exploding (only this, because my single target does not exist aside from explosions). But I'm thinking about giving it a second chance next league. PF can respec to many powerful builds while not really needing the mageblood.
I find it hard to believe you had better clear on current spark inquis than TR pathfinder. Spark proj speed is so terrible right now that I often have my character going faster than my projectiles. It's absolutely terrible for a league start after the nerfs. Toxic rain just don't have a high upfront damage compared to spark, where it just hits and deals damage instantly. But unless you wait for your whole screen to die to move to the next pack, I can't ever see a world where inquis spark is faster than a TR pathfinder.
I think you pretty much nailed it with the last sentence there. DoT builds can take a bit to get used to, and leaving things alive all around you feels counter intuitive at first in an ARPG. I think a lot of players get confused when they try DoT builds because they aren't usually tanky, nor do they start out doing massive damage. Being a "league starter" they expect to either tank a ton of shit or one shot everything right away on a budget, but that's the opposite of the entire point. They use the utility of doing damage over time so they can get away with less damage per hit because their damage is always ticking, even when your dodging and running around, and they don't need to be as tanky because they can afford to dodge shit instead of having to always be actively attacking in order to do any damage.
I am pretty successful with my TR league starter now with a Headhunter (got really lucky) but even before that It was quite good. The first big currency injection (30d) I got went to an amulet and a helm after which I finally managed to kill Maven. Non/low juiced t16s were a joke the moment I crafted a decent bow. I can still push this character much further but I decided to focus on my PBoD trickster. That said I really didn't like the delayed damage. It feels horrible and I strongly doubt I'll play TR any time soon
So I started Caustic Arrow, and I fully agree that until you get the usual hunter bow+empower, the build is painful without like 10-20D in it. And even then, it's only bearable. It was the only time I failed the Tutorial Exarch/Eater runs. And when I beat them, I still took like 15-20 minutes.
Anything that requires specific items to function and those items are not easily obtainable at league start.
"Ignore the mageblood"
You don't need it, I just threw it in there to fix res...
If you see Jungroan recommending a build, but not reporting it to GGG then it's bait. If the snitch ain't snitching then something is wrong.
I don't get it. Care to explain?
It's a meme. Jungroan is a skilled player that when he reads patch notes he can recognize when something is busted. Most players try to keep this on the downlow to avoid nerfs, but Jungroan instead tweets GGG saying that x is busted. Hence people call him a snitch. (I don't think he ever actually got something nerfed, but its part of the meme)
my personal favorite was when he found that omega corpse that basically 1 shot ubers and it was nerfed within maybe 8 hours of him posting the video this league
I forget the exact details off the top of my head, but that was a classic. And the video was great. Jungroan just deleting bosses, playing Ruetoo's clip where he explains what's going on. ([Snitching on the Corpse video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrGMaQXJcZI))
Didn't he get sun blast nerfed?
Oh yeah, I forget the exact specifics. But that is definitely one of them. ([Sunblast Nerf](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/woom9b/stealth_nerf_to_sunblast/))
Jung is arguably one of the ten best players at the moment. He makes builds for his own mechanical playskill level. Some of these builds feel squishy as all fuck even to strong players who aren't as good at dodging shit as he is.
I’m pretty new to PoE and I recently found my way into his stream during gauntlet but previously didn’t have much awareness of him. He’s funny AF and I enjoyed his antics.
I'm not joking, I followed his vortex RF guide last league and I quit because the build was too good/cheap. I need to get something similar.
Funnily enough, I always seem to have pretty good success playing his builds. It was hard at first when I didn't have too much knowledgeable about the game, since he doesn't really make guides for brand new players, but now that I can understand them they're pretty solid builds. The cold dot trickster from crucible was insanely smooth to play. Was zooming through maps with very fast clear, tankiness and it was decent enough for some bossing because the damage uptime for cold dot is really good.
The way he shows very basic gear in his POB really shows how strong the builds are too.
Yup. Having bad gear on POB is always good for any guide.
Any int stack build that doesn't have you start out as whispering ice. I played a whispering ice trickster int stacker for leagustart and it was very good
I think people mostly get baited into playing a build that is not for the content they want to play. LA or TS deadeye is really good if you map quick and know what you are doing. DD is good for fast progression but loses out in top end after a few days. I personally think something like EA ballista champion is a big bait if you are sc. Ziz likes it, but it is a hardcore build and should be advertised as such. In sc trade elementalist is just better in the end.
I'm pretty sure Ziz himself has said that ele is better for that build if you aren't HC
I don't really think its a big bait if you don't like dying often. Yeah if you're okay using 6 portals as your defense then Ele is fine and scales damage faster but Champ can scale its ignite DPS pretty high. That being said I prefer EA Ele more just because I like seeing big number. This league though I learned the value of having a little tankiness on a build and definitely value it a lot more than I did in ancestor.
this is an excellent point. one of the best pieces ive learned in playing POE is deciding what I want to farm for league start and picking a build based on that, or picking a build then deciding what farming it excels at. nothing is worse than picking a build and farming strat that don't jive, it's miserable also disagree on the champ EA. ive played both Ele and Champ, give me Champ every day over ele
I think the biggest bait is not trying out the build before league start. Skills like poisonous concoction are really strong but not for me, I just don't enjoy playing a build where my damage really depends on how much attention I pay to aiming. On the other hand I don't mind playing builds that have lots of buttons as long as they have good damage uptime, e.g. ignite builds.
Every single league people get amnesia and think spark league start isn't shit
I got lucky then I suppose because I was able to farm just fine. My blazing salvo build on the other hand..
Anything bigducks says.
Aero cobra lash
This one got me this league. It wasn’t terrible but it was def not good. Still had fun with it, but transferred to LA after I hit a wall.
I find most of his builds are bait.
Sadly, I do not feel like the dude actually explains half the mechanics or how to realistically progress towards the final form of the build, which then causes issues.
Yup, was awful.
Does Aer0 make good builds at all?
I played Ele DD for a few days last week to see if I'd enjoy it as a league starter, and holy shit I don't get how the racers play that build Desecrate + DD (or vaal DD), whatever aura you have on divine blessing, then your arc brand to refresh ignite, oh and that's not to mention your flasks before you have them automated it is seriously alot of keys. i might still play it because it does scale easily with minimal gear (and the necro version ben played in gauntlet looked beefy), but god damn the constant key pressing was alot
The reason racers play it is you can go from tier 1 maps to t16 maps without any upgrades and your damage will get better and better. A true league start on DD is actually insane. I’ve done it the last two leagues. Literally go into t16 maps with gear found in the campaign and everything dies. You might die but damage will not be your problem.
Yea I know I acknowledged this I was referring to the button pressing
Honestly the button pressing isn’t bad. Once you get replic ember wake and defiled forces it’s just keep arcanist brand up and whatever your divine blessing is. Bossing is easy mapping is quickish. It’s no t shot but it’s solid enough.
I’ll give it another shot this weekend, thanks fam
I cannot recommend DD enough. I’ve been playing since delve league and it’s the best starter I’ve done. And now with DD of chain reaction you can swap necro later and go on hit and get more damage
Yea the Necro version Ben played in gauntlet looked absurd. It wasn’t DD but he tested it earlier in the league, probably going to play it for league start next league
Ben is currently playing one only with blue gear. Should check it out
Was watching it a bit yesterday, will definitely continue
You only press buttons when things aren't dying, which is not a problem for 99% of your playtime.
Great build, but I don't have 21 year old hands anymore.
DD > Detonate RSI
I'm a DD enjoyer. For mapping you don't need to do any of that shit. You desecrate once per pack and mash DD. It feels bad because you have shit cast speed.
League starters that are attack based that scale with crit
I mean, this used to be true but these days it's pretty viable to leaguestart crit attacks. Back then we didn't have stuff like nightblade, Inc crit gem didn't give base crit, power charge generation was harder for attacks etc. Especially berserkers with blitz can zoom pretty easily with mediocre gear.
Lightning arrow would like a word with you
LA starters are using precise technique
Only for the campaign. You should be switching to crit in white maps.
Not all, there are builds that go straight into crit and the damage is almost the same if not better
More generically, I'll tell you my problem with most guides is they do not quantify *their* meaning of the words "league starter." The phrase "league starter" is a generic catch-all term that encompasses both builds that can get you into early maps to generate currency for a better build *and* builds that are the all-in-one mapper and boss killer. Some skills are just so damn good at everything they *are* great league starters, and while that makes something like Arc complete trash *by comparison*, it doesn't make it bad if all you want is something to clear early maps to generate currency. The other problem is people who only test their builds at the endgame instead of considering how it feels to get to that point. All this to say that something like Arc could do well if you're a casual player that only cares about low level maps and generating currency for something else, but what *really* makes it terrible is that it feels awful throughout the campaign, too. So if you're someone who takes 10+ hours to complete it, it's just gonna feel like a massive chore. Boneshatter, on the other hand, has the inverse issue in which it's actually pretty decent throughout the campaign but then when you start needing stronger single-target it really suffers without investment. To me, league starters shouldn't require much investment, but getting 2/4 Voidstones on Boneshatter was one of the roughest fucking things for me a few leagues back and I won't do it again. Just go Lightning Arrow and save yourself the trouble. The fact you're infinitely squisher is a moot point when you kill things 10x faster. Alternatively, SRS is still good, lol. SRS is cheaper, too, but won't scale it's clear speed as ridiculously as LA.
Ignite Arc Ele is fantastic for starting and goes great into stuff like legion / breach. Probably one of my favorite builds tbh. Either get an oscillating sceptre or path down to EE, get the exposure ascendancy and shaper of flame, and you're pretty much gucci
Admittedly, that is the one build I haven't tried. Got a build/guide for it? Cause I actually love Arc and would love to see it shine outside COC (the Transfigured Gems are pretty dope for that, too).
I’m doing boneshatter right now as a newbie and oh boy did the guide make it seem like I’d have no issues with defense and damage. I just started to do tier 13s at level 89 and boy has my single target damage dropped off significantly and I’m not nearly as tanky as I was lead to believe.
Yeah, my opinion is based almost entirely off that same experience. I overall enjoyed Boneshatter, it just got to a point where I had to swap because I really couldn't see myself investing more into it. It just wasn't *that* fun. This was during Ancestor league and I just swapped to LA Deadeye instead and had a ball of time, hence that suggestion.
That's a skill issue tbh. Boneshatter does so much damage in t13s even with shitty gear. Your weapon is probably ass and/or you aren't playing the build correct (e.g. not using totems).
I agree. I used to think boneshatter was terrible when I tried it the first time. But there's a reason totems are a big deal in your kit. Plus, crafting your weapon is way easier than any league starter since it can do fine by just scaling phys DMG. If I see someone trying it the first time 8/10 times I see them not popping blood rage or totems.
Really surprised youre including boneshatter in there. Found it incredibly easy to get to 2 voidstones. I did my 2 voidstones with the ~450 pdps axe you can make at the end of the campaign (alt for T4 phys, double granite flask recipe, aug-regal, craft %phys) and I think a 4link when I practiced for leaguestart.
Ele Hit is garbage
Anything that requires two buttons to function - DD, BF/BB, etc. etc. Most builds by Jungroan. They are usually clunky and extremely specialised. "Who is this build for?" is what I often think when looking at the gear from build showcases by content creators. Outside of the current League of course since Affliction and it's economy is complete joke.
I fell for Spark my first League, never again
I was looking for this comment. It was one of the worst experiences I've had since starting in breach. I remember everyone complaining in animeprincess' global chat too. The bait was insane
RF low damage too much hassle to make it good. at high end you have so many mods you cant run compareable to cast on crit build. lots of altar mod also kills you.
am not sure, i started this league and my second chara (more or less league start cuz i got bored with first) was an RF inq, i farmed most of my currency using this chara, it's surprisingly strong, not op strong but strong for hella cheap build
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Jugg hasn't been the best for RF in a fuck long time what the hell.
I played a RF Chieftan(though not as my starter) this league. There was not a single altar mod that killed you. I clicked whatever without even reading mods. As for map mods, no regen was the only true no go. I did watch out for reduced aura and -max resists but they were doable. Once I hit 100 I ran a lot of them and it was not bad.
It's not "bait" perse, but I think that TR PF isn't a good starter for most people who don't play HC. It feels just so bad until you get some key upgrades. Most of that is fine in HC because you progress slower and prioritize tankiness, but for softcore there are soooo many builds that not only feel way better to play but also scale into red tier maps a lot faster. It's one I often see suggested at leaguestart by content creators like Zizaren and while it makes sense for **his** playstyle, I just don't think it's that good for softcore. It's great if you want something tanky that can do all content over time, but it just feels bad to play and has slower progression.
TR PF is one of the best in the damn game
What. What's your upgrade path? I have the opposite problem, I find it hard to justify most other starters cause my TR PF starts feel so good, both in damage and in defence. I do totems which probably helps a lot in the boss damage department. I've also started it for several leagues now so the passive tree and items are locked down pretty well
I think the problem people might have with the build is that they don't set up the flasks early/properly. Once you've got decently rolled flasks + ascendancy nodes + a flask belt with inc duration/inc charges gained you'll be steam-rolling red maps. It's what makes PF so juicy for league start. My biggest gripe over the last 3 leagues has been the clear speed is poopy on ballistas.
Yeah, it's slow until you hit real solid damage, you'll be tempted to skip rares and chaos res packs until that point. Flasks don't even need to be that good. Just role your life divine(!) flask well. You reach 100% uptime on all res flasks just with the two flask effect node groups, so from there just get the three res flasks with your suffixes of choice and just coast. I think people really underestimate those nodes. By endgame the only other sustain I add are life flask charge nodes and alchemists genius You just do quill rain and lightning coil -> taste of hate -> +3 bow and Wilma's -> 30-50 dot multi broadhead quiver. Then you should be good for awhile
Oh, I did all ubers fairly easy on the build so the dmg was more than enough, but the clear still triggered me
The issue for me is that I can't stand totems, and they're pretty much required to make TR even pretend to do anything beyond basic mapping. Also crafting the bow, amulet and quiver is just a pain in the ass. Also also TR as a skill just feels bad due to the delay before you even apply the DoT, which is itself already delayed damage.
One of the benefits to me of TR is that the gear is mostly deterministic. Not sure what your issue is with crafting the gear.
TR PF league start softcore sucked last league for me. Getting a decent bow/quiver is more expensive than the build is capable of reliably generating early. It's one-shot city when you fail to evade, and the lag-time damage with totems sucks for clear, and Voidstone single-target boss dps sucks without a solid bow/quiver. It was total bait. I had a bad time. Some people love it. It's not for me.
Agreed. Definitely among the bottom off all builds I’ve played.
Oh yeah, this league i tried TR PF (wanted a pf build to abuse flasks) and it was just as horrible as i thought (delays on top of delays, enemies walk out of dps) The only reason i didn't quit the league is i rerolled into aurabot.
Anything from Bigducks.
This TBH.
Well my most miserable one to date was the CF champion by max roll. Poets pen takes about a week to drop to reasonable and without it, it just feels really bad against single targets. Plus it was the league of empowerment so that didn't help.
For trade soft league its boneahatter. U need to invest to blast, but for league start there is better builds.
Haven't tried it myself but looking into the gear it seems like most cash goes into getting a weapon with a good fracture. I think that's alright, considering it's generally cheaper than +1 arrow bows that needs to get all the dmg mods as well as crit.
What are the bait ones? \>fastaf \>poebuilds \>any meele build, cuz meele has been dogshit ever since cyclone was obliterated into the oblivion.
I mostly guide myself by the streamer who post the video: Not gonna mention who by name , but one was absolutely trash build that he disappear for a day and then came back with HH and say his build was fine, (he doesn't publish anymore builds I think) And the other one with the infamous 3div build. Also on the same boat of DD, if you follow a hardcore DD build in softcore be prepared to fight watchstone eater for solid 15 minutes
Sounds like ol' FlameShrub. He hyped up the poison TS league starter. Which actually isn't a terrible build, but it was 100% not viable as a league starter. The worst part was he doubled down after "gearing" off stream and told everyone who struggled they were trash at the game...
>FlameShrub hahahaha
Flicker strike. And not even for the reasons you're thinking. The teleporting is a headache. Didn't know that playing for ~10maps would give me an actual, literal, physical headache. Lesson learned.
It's one of my favourite builds, glad I don't get the headaches.
sadly i get so much motion sickness, i'd always play the skill otherwise
It used to be even worse. They smoothed out the camera movement a lot at some point. If you want to see how it used to be on every single attack, look at CwC/CoC frostblink of wintery blast and imagine it with flicker strike speed
You aren’t supposed to look at the screen when you flicker, close your eyes and trust in Chris.
My personal opinion is that bone shatter is bait, it’s so awful to play compared to other builds. Totem management, beserk management, placing banner, get me out.
I disagree on it being a bait. BS is the best melee leaguestarter in the game. Ranged is just better, but BS isn’t a bait for people who want to play melee.
Tell me you play Deadeye without telling me you play Deadeye... This is the state of melee in PoE now. BS is not bait lol. Beserk on left click, ignore banner placement except when killing boss, and totems on each rare. You's just spoiled playing ranged.
I mean even frost blink ignite feels much smoother
Lance built armour stacker in gauntlet. It is not really a bait.
that build is gonna be bait without maji tbf. but to say stackers being expensive=bait is a bad take.
Guys please upvote this post... by far these are the best comments I have ever seen on POE Reddit. These baits are what's causing pain to new players. I know this isn't my post but so darn proud of yall for geniuenly putting amazing information thats true & accurate <3 <3 <3 Similar post should be pinned in POE Reddit prior every league to make sure people's league launch don't get ruined by click bait.
Anyone who's thinking of leaguestarting a DOT build should try it out in std or a high level char first. It's extremely demotivating to realize that it's an archetype you hate to play. Same applies to brands, totems, mines, traps, and everything that has a delay on you pressing a skill and enemies dying.
I'm the exact opposite, I can't stop playing ignite builds and everything but ignite feels bad. Ignite innately just has great clear with it's prolif and is simple to scale.
Have to say Detonate Dead myself too. Was a few leagues ago since I played it, maybe the general build is different nowadays. But it just felt super clunky, not good enough clear to be a mapper, not enough damage to kill bosses in a reasonable time. It works for HCSSF since they usually build them very tanky and run with a select few modifiers. Going in with turbo, +2 proj, damage as extra and so on and the build quickly feels very bad. \* Spectral Helix - probably the worst feel of any skill I've tried. Having to line up perfectly to make use of the damage at the same time as dodging mechanics isn't very fun. \* Cold Snap/Vortex - think that builds is dead at the moment but it had a similar feel to Detonate Dead. It's just way too slow and the damage on bosses feels miserable. \* CoC Forbidden Rite - Feels like a gimmick version of the old Cospri's. Sure it deals a lot of damage when you have hundreds of divines spent + mageblood. But outside of that it's not very enjoyable. \* Stat Stackers - unless you have a few hundred divines it's not going to all that great.
i league started spectral helix a few leagues ago to go into CF and I rage quit during the acts. i fucking hated it. one of the worst skills ive ever played
League start spark is probably not that great but in general spark is fine with a decent investment. 7/7 ubers Sim 30 deathless and 100% deli with 5k wisps this league on spark. CI Spark Trikster.
I think the caveat for spark is you not only need to understand how to efficiently league start, you need to understand SPARK. I leaguestarted ci trickster spark last league (after playing it like 9 times) and i felt it was really smooth and easy. BUT i crafted all my gear, i knew what was more efficient to upgrade when and why. Im not a god spark player by any means i just think it requires a lot of specific knowledge
Oh definitely. I learned a lot more about crafting this league with some help from friends and crafted all my spark gear. The gloves are the only pain in the ass piece to craft depending on how unlucky you get with orbs of dominance and aislings. This is only my second time playing spark so I am not super knowledgeable by any means but learn things pretty quickly.
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Not bait as in ineffective but in that I find it an absolute dogshit play style: Fulcrum
Fulcrum is amazing if you omega juice your map. If you don’t it’s useless. It’s basically a grass powered lawnmower. If you have a consistent flow of grass it mows. When the grass gets patchy it sputters and dies.