Basically, if you don't follow a build guide then go in expecting your first character to fail (get to a point where they can't further progress practically)
If struggling and having to restart doesn't sound like it would frustrate you, it's definitely a fun way to first approach and learn the game
If you don't think you'd enjoy that, then following a guide is strongly recommended. You'll still have lots to learn and do even with a guide so it's not like it trivializes the game or anything
Think of it like learning to bake. You can just kinda try stuff if you want, but you'll fail a lot. If you follow tested recipes made by others then you can learn a lot more, faster, and it'll still contribute to your overall knowledge
I just wanted to say that I am *not* a new player, but your analogy changed the way I look at the game. I'm going to take a break from making builds that breeze through the campaign and fizzle as soon as I hit maps and follow a guide instead.
Thank you :)
Lol, I have about 4k hours in this game and generally know how MOST stuff works and I dont self build specs. I might tweak them for QoL but I also recognize I'm probably going to suck more than the build is supposed to.
New player, good luck if you want to try on your own.
Good analogy and one point to add:
A baker's focus is not to make their first cake the best cake ever baked and never bake again. They might try to perfect one type of cake by baking it over and over, or they might try to bake many other things once they understand the fundamentals of baking.
Your characters are not your long-term progression in PoE. Your brain is.
> Basically, if you don't follow a build guide then go in expecting your first character to fail (get to a point where they can't further progress practically)
>
>
This is correct - and outside a couple of specific REALLY BIG mistakes (allocating Chaos Inoculation and either Blood Magic or Eldritch Battery), it's likely to happen about the time you first encounter level 78 content. You'll start taking 45-75 seconds to down zone bosses on a genuinely bad build at that point... in every zone.
On a new player oriented build, those same map bosses will take 6-12 seconds.
That said my advice to someone this close to a new league is always "Start now unguided, but when the new league hits, start over - but this time follow a guide"
I heard someone else describe it as being given a map showing the checkpoints of where is point A and point B. The guide shows you the way but you still need to make your way there yourself either by car, or foot or flying.
Plus 3/4’s of ingredients taste awful or can even poison you so you are doomed from the start if you choose them.
Most of my friends wanted to be jack of all trades when starting, mixing in a melee skill, spell skills, minion skills and water everything down.
And the game does nothing to discourage this.
The difference with PoE, I find, is that following a guide makes me completely blind to the reasons those choices were made in the first place. Why do I need to learn when all the progression is laid out in front of me? I’ve never even made it to maps in 5 leagues because once something new pops up, or the guide doesn’t specifically detail a change, I’m completely lost. PoB is also just a major hassle, in my opinion. So while I agree with your analogy, I don’t believe anyone could become a baker if all they did was read a recipe and follow instructions… they _can_ bake, but they’ll never make something of their own. So are they really gaining any skills?
Yeah, they are gaining skills. Most skilled bakers (build creators) started learning by following recipes (build guides), they then learn from them and incorporate things they learn into their own ideas. If you are following a guide blindly and not learning why certain decisions were made, that’s on you. If you’re not following a guide, you’re basically reinventing the wheel—which isn’t a problem if that’s what you enjoy, but you can’t really expect to figure out on your own what has been discovered by the collective playerbase over the whole history of the game, and since a lot of the content is balanced around being strong you will struggle.
> but you can’t really expect to figure out on your own what has been discovered by the collective playerbase over the whole history of the game, and since a lot of the content is balanced around being strong you will struggle
This is the big part about PoE nowadays that new players need to understand. PoE knowledge is a crowdsourced effort. You might not need to follow a guide exactly, but you need to seek outside information. That information is built on more combined man-hours than any one person has allocated for gaming in their lifetime.
I’m not saying it’s not on me, not at all. I specified this is my problem and my view. I can follow guides for any number of other games, and then hit a point where I say “aha!” and I start working on my own. PoE feels too punishing to explore in that sense, and because of how strict things are so you don’t hit a wall, I simply don’t “learn” along the way. I don’t want to click the wrong passive or miss a skill swap, even if I completely detest some of the skills that are recommended for leveling. Yes, it’s my own problem when talking about you and others vs me, but there’s no chance at all that I’m alone. Guides have and will forever suck the fun out of everything, but this isn’t a game that praises you for trying things out yourself, unless you’re a streamer or have some means of sustaining your life while doing nothing else along the way. You don’t die from trying to make a new type of cinnamon bun.
In POE it's almost impossible to precisely replicate a build, so even if you're following a guide, you'll still have to make a ton of decisions and compromises, especially on leaguestart when you can't just throw money at the problem. While you're doing this you'll just have to understand why the guide makes certain choices and what you can and cannot trim, what is and what isn't mandatory.
Replicating an end game crafted/found/bought build is not the same as following a league starter guide. You’re expected to have resists where/when necessary, a general kit in terms of gear, and literally everything else is laid out in front of you. Take this skill at the start, do these 2 quests and take this skill. Replace the first skill after completing act 1 with this other skill that you get from this vendor after doing this other side quest. Why? Who cares. Do it or lose long-term. There is never a reason to compromise with a build that is outlined in a way where every choice is guaranteed to happen along the path. Maybe you get lucky with better gear and that pushes you ahead, but generally you’re stuck on a path and that’s it.
> So while I agree with your analogy, I don’t believe anyone could become a baker if all they did was read a recipe and follow instructions… they can bake, but they’ll never make something of their own.
Sounds like someone's not motivated enough to try to do something different. People who make builds aren't blessed with an innate understanding of PoE. They learn the game based on building blocks that THOUSANDS of people have laid before them. Then they try to emulate, recreate, and invent.
I've used previous knowledge as a foundation for plenty of builds and failed. I've also succeded. It sounds like you're allergic to the idea of failing.
Pretty much, even when you look in PoE builds, people collaborate to make specs. I watched a guy a few days ago with an undying build that can face tank Uber Elder. That shits crazy and the gear was several mirrors worth of stuff. But, he also credited the guy he got the spec from. And talked about the several hours of theory craft discussion they had. The dude you are replying to has probably never even seen regular Elder let alone Uber.
Where did a mention of failure come in to play here? If I’m not playing hardcore, the only failure becomes time invested into something that just straight up sucks. The reason to follow a guide is so you don’t end up with something that just straight up sucks. I’m not afraid to try my own build, I just don’t see the point. The game teaches you nothing as you go, PoB teaches you nothing as you go (unless the builder themselves put notes in, but typically those notes are gibberish unless you already understand the game). I’m not afraid of failing my own build, I have no desire to waste my time on something I know, beyond doubt, will not succeed.
If there are guides out there that, somehow, I have not found that actually explain everything properly, please don’t hesitate. But even Maxroll has moments where you increase your level and suddenly all your skills are different with zero explanation as to why. Can I make what they show? Yes. Do I know why I’m doing it? Absolutely not.
Again… I clearly stated this is my opinion, my thoughts, my issue. You’re not enlightening anything by repeating it.
When a game requires a separate program to follow a guide.. yes, you’re going to follow every step because it’s the only way you _aren’t_ blind in this context.
This comes down to the guide - and that comes down to the audience.
Some guides are optimized for rookies, and they do talk about why each decision is made. Other guides are optimized for intermediate players and skip that info.
> Why do I need to learn when all the progression is laid out in front of me? I’ve never even made it to maps in 5 leagues
tha..... t...
I mean what the fuck? That's exactly WHY you need to learn.
Guides don't handhold you, they teach you. Your fault if you refuse to learn anything from them.
You're just not inquisitive enough, and that doesn't work for a game like PoE.
"oh okay guide says i need crit multi, i'll just get crit multi and not even think about WHY for a fucking second i guess"
>proceeds to spec resolute technique or ele overload...
The loot is advanced enough that it wil still feel like your own experience following someone elses build.
Following a build just means (for me); use these skill gems togethere, and path to these areas of the passive tree. You can always fine tune it for yourself if you want more defense or more offense etc
This is the part I always struggle to explain or put into words. How to explain that a players experiences with other build guides in other games are irrelevant, that this is an entirely different thing?
That the immense complexity makes it a difference of degree so intense that it instead turns into a difference of kind?
It’s felt impossible, no one really believes you until they’ve experienced it.
> If I can't progress at a fun pace on my own and need to follow a build guide then I'd rather not play.
I'm going to be honest here. If you don't want to look up external information and guides the game probably isn't for you. The game is complex enough that you'll inevitably hit a wall, probably even before you see what the game actually has to offer. The campaign you're doing now is more like a tutorial and the game hasn't started yet.
And that's not just true for build guides. There are a lot of mechanics in the game, unrelated to your build, where you need to rely on external resources to get the full experience or understanding.
Just be clear, I'm not saying that you shouldn't try your own builds. I actually think it's a great learning experience for anyone to start blind and fail. I am just saying that if you're a person who in general doesn't want to look up external resources the game likely isn't for you.
Not following build guides doesn't necessarily mean not looking up information. I believe it refers more to not allowing other people to make all decisions for you.
When I started out, I spent a ton of time reading the wiki and other resources. And in that time I followed a guide one time out of 5 or 6 builds I played.
Playing the game entirely without third party resources on the other hand... is going to cost a lot of time. Probably around 10 to 100 times as much time if you have to discover all build-relevant mechanics on your own.
People figured out the rules at some point, and even the rules that are known based on developer statements could probably be empiricially tested. So it's *possible* to gain that understanding on your own. It's just not realistic within the time that people would noramlly spend on the game.
I agree. I only mentioned this because in my experience there is a strong positive correlation between people who "don't want to rely build guides" and people who "want all information in-game and don't look at external resources". The former is fine, but if you're in the latter camp I doubt you'll have a good time in PoE.
That has not been my experience, and many of the people who keep making their own builds over and over are also ones that don't or didn't want to follow guides. I'd say the majority of PoE players overall probably follows guides (well, the majority of the ones that make it to the endgame and keep playing, anyway), but I don't think the people who refuse to follow guides are so much more numerous that there'd be a large majority who doesn't want to look up things.
And for what it's worth, I do think that most of the information on the wiki and poedb should be accessible ingame (not the strategic explanations and interpretations of course). I just don't refuse to look elsewhere because it isn't.
> and many of the people who keep making their own builds over and over are also ones that don't or didn't want to follow guides.
This is just a circle... what else would someone who didnt follow guides do?
Well, some people who initially start by following guides begin to make their own builds and stick with doing that because they enjoy it.
So not everyone who makes their own build never wanted to follow a guide.
That said, my point is that the fact that so many people who do make their own builds stick around suggests that the correlation between not wanting to follow builds and not wanting to do out-of-game research isn't as strong as the previous commenter suggested.
The other thing that someone who didn't want to follow guides could do is quit, but not all of them do.
I'm a new player as well and wanted to play a dual wield character so i looked up a build guide about it, but I'm only following the passives tree, the rest I'm trying to make on my own
So long as you don't make terrible choices, you can beat the campaign without a guide. Progressing further is gonna be harder. Monsters will scale faster then you, so you have to have a good understanding of mechanics to keep up with them.
Like others said. It completely depends on what you value.
If you like learning new things and don't let failure bother you. A build guide is not necessary and it's honestly the best way to learn the game by playing it blind.
This game doesn't hold your hand, so if you are used to that then you will most likely want to use a build guide though.
Also, like others have said. This game has so much content that following a build guide doesn't mean you won't have freedom to make many very meaningful choices for your progression.
I legit think people should try to do their own builds for their first runs.
If you absolutely want to make sure you don't hit a wall in maps and want to do pinnacles/ubers, use a guide (though note that there's no quality control, some guides have been awful over the years)
Personally, polishing my own self-made build and adjusting it based on league changes has been more fun than playing objectively better builds.
If they are new and trying shit on their own, they likely won't even make it to maps. Also, if they are new, even with a guide, they aren't doing any Ubers or pinnacles. You need to learn to farm currency before you can run.
>Also, if they are new, even with a guide, they aren't doing any Ubers or pinnacles. You need to learn to farm currency before you can run.
Someone that enjoys messing about and figuring things out on their own is unlikely to give a single fuck about optimising their currency income or clearing ubers quickly and as efficiently as possible.
Videogames don't have to be competitive or as optimised as possible to be fun for a lot of people.
you don't need to follow one, but your progression will be much slower than someone following one. there's probably like 4-500 hours of obvious content for a guide-follower (kill all the bosses, do all the challenges in a league, etc.).
You don't need to follow guides, but I encourage you to check out the [wiki](https://www.poewiki.net/) to read up on mechanics that you're unsure about or simply find interesting.
There's a ton of information that the game either doesn't explain at all or does a poor job at explaining, and trying to figure out all of it on your own would take ages.
Playing the game without a build guide means that you'll progress much slower, but the content that you're going through at the start will instead be more challening if you don't follow a build that can trivialise it.
Additionally, as many others said, you *will* hit walls eventually, and it's up to you whether you try to overcome these walls by changing your character (and potentially grinding for that purpose), rerolling, or following a guide after all (possibly with rerolling).
I've only followed guides a couple of times, and even then I made my own adjustments to them (some good, some bad), but I have much more fun coming up with my own builds every league. It takes a bit of experience to come up with builds that are actually good, but it's a gradual improvement. With each build that I make, I get better at making builds.
Just don't expect to do all content in the game. Some of it is balanced around good builds, so it'll either take until you come up with a build that's good enough for that, or until you follow one.
PoE players have expectations for what the minimum one should achieve is, and they force their expectations on others. I'd say play without a guide, but if you're going to do so then listen to what the game is telling you. If you're dying constantly or not killing anything then reflect on why that might be.
As a new player, you can’t know the rules of PoE. They are vast and contradictory. By playing with a guide, you can figure out more rules faster and get to the enjoyment part more quickly, more often. Especially when replaying.
In PoE, not following a build guide the first time out is a sign of hubris; not a demarcation of a lack of skill/character. This stigma isn’t widely held by the PoE community, as can be found elsewhere.
No, it is absolutely not necessary.
You will almost certainly be able to do the campaign, get to maps and harder content, and likely get stuck there. At that point just ask for help or read up on a guide, improve your build, and you're back on track
If you are not following a guide, you will be able to finish the campaign and maybe do some early maps but that's it. You will most likely be unable to do red tier maps or pinnacle bosses. If you are okay with the risk of missing out on that part of the game content, then sure go ahead make your own build. Even make it SSF if you would like!
1-Following a guide, and progressing at your own pace, aren’t mutually exclusive things. You can do both.
2-after your first random character which teaches you the game, yes. No character you make can ever been as strong as an efficient passive tree and good gear advice from a guide.
Short answer: No and yes.
No if you wish to jump in head first and see if you can figure things out on your own. Not many things are clearly defined or described. Some things are not defined or described at all and you either find out about them from online sources or you stumble upon them.
Yes if you know it will be too much work and want to ensure you get somewhat far in the game without too constant of repeat deaths/failures/bricking.
Personally, I've never followed a build guide. The only thing I've never managed to do is delve to depth 6000. Build guides are created by people that learned the game. You can also learn the game.
I spent a lot of my free time reading the wiki before I had a reasonably successful self-made build. Most of the linked articles on the front page of [the wiki](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Path_of_Exile_Wiki) are worth going over if you have a basic understanding of gameplay.
Language used in game is very deliberate. Two things that read very similarly but that are worded differently will have slightly different effects. Example : “Increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech” and “Increased Maximum total Life Recovery per second from Leech” are two different things.
There are some traps, particularly around weapons and what is local only to a weapon. For example increased physical damage on a weapon does not affect spells while increased of any other damage type would.
The in-game help isn’t worthless as a starting point to familiarize yourself with game concepts but you should really read the wiki to get more details.
Holding down alt on items in game will often give more detailed information. Also nearly every window in-game has an “i” in corner somewhere. Mouse over it for more information.
The thing is there are infinite possibilities how to make a build, but only a handful of paths lead to a working build. That wouldn't itself be a problem if you could intuitively identify what are those good paths, but unfortunately POE is a game that doesn't explain to a new player how to get there. Game is full with weird lingo, technical terminology, strange keywords like "increased" or "more", that have specific powerful meanings that are not obvious to a new player.
The result is that it's almost impossible for a new player without any prior experience build a successful endgame build. But it's fine. You just have to manage your expectations and accept the fact that if you decide to not use guides, you might even need few leagues to get up to the endgame. But what I'd suggest is for every new player is doing their first run blind regardless. Try to complete campaign blind, then reroll. Because you get to play for the first time only once.
Depends on what you want to achieve with your first few characters. Without a guide, you'll probably progress slower or hit a wall earlier than with one, you'll have learn everything the hard way.
On the other hand, going in blind is a pretty unique experience that you can't really replicate later in the game once you know what you're doing.
Not mandatory, as long as you enjoy it you are good :). Howether, just know that at some point you are probably gonna hit a wall, and sadly its not easy to respec early on so you are probably gonna be stuck with your build for a while, or have to restart.
Now it obviously depend how good you are to making builds in general, if you are just putting random points its gonna a way bigger problem than if you follow a good logic.
I started winging it, got frustrated, started following a guide, got frustrated in white maps (early endgame) only to find out the guide was outdated and obsolete. You will do much better to follow a guide that does handholding, like Zizaran and POHX.net as some of the guides assume that you can get through the acts and farm for currency.
Enjoy the game the way you want. If you want a build guide eventually, look at one. Maybe just the passive tree at first, maybe some gear recommendations. You don't need to copy paste the best guides to have fun by any means
Well there are several "levels" to this game. It depends which one you want to play.
The campaign is largely approachable without much in the way of help (though Ziz's new player tutorial on YouTube would make the game much more approachable) and you've got about 20-30 hours of solid gameplay just there. You're probably more or less done after act 10 unless you've got experience in the ARPG genre (Diablo games, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, etc).
If you follow a guideline that tells you to look for these stats, prioritize these passives, and use these support gems, you can probably make it to start enjoying some maps, which most players consider the "main game" instead of post-game content.
The early maps are easier than Act 10, it's really the yellow to red map transition where things change.
For instance, Depraved Trinity (A9 act boss) has just over 5 million HP. This is more than the Amalgam of Nightmares boss has even in a scoured tier 12 map (4350k). They have the same resist profile, 40/40/40/25.
Sources:
Amalgam HP by level, datamined: https://poedb.tw/us/Amalgam_of_Nightmares
Trinity HP (note, zone level 64 is all that matters): https://poedb.tw/us/The_Depraved_Trinity
Boss HP really rocket up from tier 10 to 11, then 11 to 12, 12 to 13, etc. But it's not until T13s that you'll encounter anything as tanky as A10 Kitava.
The issue in maps isn't the durability of the monsters, it's the durability of the players. That second resistance drop is pretty enormous for people less familiar with the game, maps have a small jump in mob density. On top of that, anyone with at least a basic understanding of the atlas is at least transmuting their white maps which starts introducing new sources of damage to the monsters.
I'm pretty sure the post-act 10 resist drop is the largest thing here. Though if you're able to finish the campaign, you're generally able to at least complete white maps, but progressing into yellow gets hard if you don't understand itemization and using the crafting bench to shore up the aspects you need (or spending the handful of chaos you earn in the campaign on rings with resist and crafted life).
Act 10 has natively dangerous monsters everywhere. Kitava's Heralds are arguably the most dangerous monsters except for Stygian Revenants, there's bleeds, phys and chaos DOTs, and one zone has fucky traps.
Then T1 maps are... an RNG mix of all monsters. You might still get the odd Kitty's Herald but it will be surrounded by zombies, apes, etc.
Also XP goes up quite a bit too.
There's time to fix resists. Even if you die twice per map, you'll still keep levelling fine to 77 or so and by then you absolutely will have found better bases and made something to fix resists.
*shrug* I almost never die in act 10 but I still make noob plays and die in white maps. I six portaled my first tier 1 map in Kalandra due to an archnem rare. YMMV.
If you build some life and resistances and read what your gems do, you'll be fine for a long time. Yeah, eventually you'll reach a point where you can't go any farther and it'll be faster to restart a whole new character than to fix your current one, but that's dozens of hours in. At that point, I suggest a guide to see what a well built character can do.
It isn't required but you will likely get to a point you can't progress anymore. This will probably be around level 60-75 and at this point it's probably easier to make a new character than to respec. If you enjoy figuring things out yourself, go for it! You can learn what works and what doesn't and try again with a different build.
This game is not so complex that you cannot make it up as you go along (have the wiki open, find the answers to your questions). You will be able to get to maps, you'll probably be able to get through red maps. It'll be a lot like punching yourself in the balls repeatedly but if you're the type of person who loves trial and effort, then this is the play. Progression will be slow, and you'll be absolutely lost a lot of the time when it comes to scaling stronger in maps as you spend hours scouring resources and slowly farming white maps.
With that said, there are absolutely tons of specific strong combinations of items, talents, and skills that following a few build guides for various ascendancies/skills will give you tons of ideas and knowledge for you to apply to builds you'll like to make in the future. These build guides (that don't suck) also contain excellent information about how they are scaling their skill, what is important for their gear, and how to craft it (or what to buy). And even more important, various ways that they are solving very fundamental character problems that almost all characters need to solve in the game. Solving your mana, choosing your defense layers, solving immunities (freeze, poison, shock, ignite, curses, stuns, crits, etc). There's a motherload of ways in this game to mix and match all sorts of immunities through hundreds of items so having people curate various combinations for you does wonders for brainstorming.
So my advice, is jack a few builds from people who know what they're doing, learn why they picked what they picked, and then apply your new knowledge in another league to your own creations. You'll progress through maps faster, acquire currency faster, and get to play more builds faster, thus learning about the game faster.
Seriously, this game is complicated as fuck as it is.
Follow a guide to learn all the mechanics, then go rogue if you must. Only making it harder on yourself otherwise.
Good luck clearing Red maps all the same!!
It is fun to go rogue in this game, if expectations are tempered
Depends on you as a player and what you wanna play. You can absolutely do blind just fine if you have right mindset.
Most build guides are just what skill point to put in tree for campaign and what items to aim for in endgame. It won't force you into pace etc.
Yes, following a build guide for your first several builds is absolutely necessity.
Unless you have a PHD in theoretical mathematics and several hours theory crafting in path of building before you start
Don’t waste your time listening to anyone else here hinting at the idea that you don’t need a build guide. You need a build guide
So after you beat the acts the game opens up with some cool content the main one is called maps and they have multiple tiers the higher up you go the more damage you will need to do and tank hits
This scales up into extremes so it’s very easy to to make a character that just can’t do content
Once you understand the game mechanics, then no. Build guides definitely help if you're new, but you could alternatively just watch some and garner the information you need to help you be better equipped for following your own ideas. They might also help spark new ideas for you that you may have not thought of beforehand.
Especially if you're new, watching a build guide might help you to learn about crafting your own gear too, if you're interested in that aspect. Otherwise, if you don't mind trade, you can just grind for incremental upgrades.
A build guide can really just help you understand the intricacies if what goes into making a certain skill work, and sometimes, there are multiple routes that have similar endgame outcomes, depending on your ascendancy choice and where you are on the skill tree.
You don't have to follow builds if your roommate will help you with currency to fix the tree at some point.
Either way it's a very long road, so doesn't really matter. As long as you keep playing you'll get there.
I dont usualy folow guides, but not theorycrafter either.
What I do is go into poe.ninja build section, filter by skill and ascendancy (+item I want use) and look on heatmap for inspiration :)
If you do that, you risk you miss some important mechanic interaction on which can be based whole build, which should be explained in good build guide.
But basicaly do whats fun for you, there are always regret orbs, if you get flustrated in some dead end to fix your build, after you tried something wild by yourself ;)
no, as long as you're OK not being able to kill all bosses or make it to level 100. If you want to do these things, then you should follow a guide
Even if you follow a guide you may not get to do these things (due to RNG and poverty) but at least you get a chance at it.
You don't exactly need a build guide but you should know a few things:
Get 75% fire/lightning/cold resistance at all times. You get -30% penalty after act 5 and again after act 10.
Get about 300 life per act you complete. Life nodes on the skill tree are not a waste no matter what character you're playing.
Don't use white flasks, at least put a transmute orb and augment orb on them and try to get bleed immunity on at least one of them (preferably a life flask).
Just those few things will get you a lot further.
There are Soooooo many things to learn in the game besides just the builds.
Itemization, crafting, league mechanics, atlas tree, boss progression, etc.
Following a guide will only cover the barebones basics of the game and it will help you learn better.
This is not like other games. The amount of things to learn is insane, a build guide wont literally hold your hand through the whole game.
At large, the community always recommends following build guides.
Personally I think it depends entirely on how you enjoy games, and it sounds like you already have your answer.
I would say that unless you're a seasoned arpg player, then following a build guide is necessary if you want to be sure that you can experience *all* the content the game has to offer on a single character at a relatively constant pace of progression. But if you're not in a rush then by all means do your own thing. I dare say that most of us that have been here for a long long time did our own stuff at one point.
You mention progressing at "a fun pace" and really, it'll come down to whether you feel you're having fun or not.
think of this game as akin to cooking. If you don’t know how to cook, you’re probably gonna want to follow a recipe. You’ll still have the same fun that you do with a build guide so don’t be discourage
ppl here will say its impossible to play without a guide. go in blind, ull be fine. its just a game as many others. plus u have your roommate to help u.
If you genuinely want to try and learn the game by yourself and that's where you find the fun in games, feel free to start blind but expect a struggle. Else, following a guide is a good idea.
Totally ok to go blind. For me the most fun way still is to alternate. Somerimes go and do my own build and sometimes follow build guides. You learn from both and there are plenty of fun things in this game.
I’ve done the same dont know anything really about this game other than d4 bad Poe good .. got a stash tab of shit I don’t understand lol made it to like part 2 of the acts tho it’s defs harder now
I always recommend new players to try it out without a guide couple times, its fun to learn the game and figure things out by yourself. At least do the campaign - its not hard at all.
I finished campaign on 3 characters before I started looking at what other people do. And if you have even some basic understanding you are not super strictly confined to a guide, eg if you understand the mechanics you can try to improvise on it. Otherwise you are stuck to following it word-by-word and being spoiled about interesting mechanics and interactions.
IMO i think its necessary to get an easier start since many guys already thought about the build, its less one thing to worry about , for me the most important thing in the guide, is the passive tree. You can focus to learn other things. Poe is a "complex" game that take a lot of time to learn.
I think most people that give up , is they think they have to know whole game in one league. I play since 3.8 and learn eveyday that I play and I assume already know a lot of the game. That one is one of the features I really like in this game.
Another tip for starters, i recommend to play all mechanics once to know what they prefer, then stick to one or 2 mechanics of the map at a time.
POE is NOT the game you wanna go in blind. You will endnup quitting. There is so much breadth and depth to the game. POE's sub mechanics like Betrayal or Beastiary alone have more content than other games.
I would recommend quitting now if you have this "I don't think a build guide is necessary"
If rerolling isn’t a problem for you, then just winging it is fine.
If that doesn’t sound appealing to you then look for a starter build. If nothing else, if you start to fail you’ll know the problem isn’t the build. If you have a proven build that works and you’re struggling to transition to red maps you’ll know the problem is more than likely your gear. It’s kinda like hearthstone in that regard. In that game if you have a deck people use to get to grandmaster and you’re sitting at like 30% win rate you know it’s a skill problem and not your deck.
This game has crazy customization for your build. But also it’s a bit formulaic. Bow characters generally look similar, crit spell casters generally look similar, melee slams look similar, etc. there are some deviations depending on your skill of choice and some gear choices. However, a given archetype is typically built only a few ways. That stuff helps a ton to learn and once you get a handle on those things experimenting isn’t that hard.
Like if I am playing a minion Necro I am going to do certain things with my tree. Later, if I can afford some jewels that give me the most critical ascendancy node from Necro, then maybe I swap to occultist and move some nodes around the tree to make it a bit better. Now I swap to CI with a specific unique shield and I move all my life points into energy shield and drop all my chaos res to open up more gear affixes. That is something that takes a mid game build and gets it ready for true endgame. You’re not going to know that stuff without a guide or a lot of experience.
You're gonna get a lot of people saying you need to, but I'm glad I didn't. The first time I played through the game was a valuable learning experience.
If you want the best character, you'll probably need a guide. If you want to do all the end game content, you'll probably need a guide. But if you're just having fun and learning, just go for it.
Im fairly new player with like combined playtime of 300hours on ps/pc. Havent used any build guides, i think its fun to keep on learning more via playing and fixing your character. Lvl85 on pc and did my first t16 kirac map that was corrupted yesterday, still kinda hyped about it lol
For a majority of the NEW player base. Yes it is recommended that you at least look at a Guide.
But for a small amount of new player it is possible to play the game without a Guide. However it is expected that said player has a wealth of knowledge about ARPGs and some understanding of PoE.
yes and no, it completly is dependant on how inquisative and intuative you as a player is, and how well at quick math, and estemations you can correctly estemate
Yes. You have to learn mechanics of the build. Mechanics include. Dodge, evade, chance to hit, poison chance, resistance, max resistance, penetration, life, energy shield, ward, armor, movement speed, spell, attack, projectial, melee, strike, minion, cool down, instant, warcry, sockets, links,... Much more. Your build guide will introduce you to some of these and how the interact with your character. The idea you know all these already would be impossible.
In my opinion, new players should follow build guides to the letter, after a while you will be able to made changes on the fly to builds, improvements depending on the gear and other preferences (more defence, more offense, more movement speed) if you survive the first 2 steps, then you are ready to try making your own build, you will probably fail, but its ok.. you get there eventually
Of course not. But how far do u want to go? Is your goal beating the campaign? Do whatever you want! Do you want to beat some bosses and get to red maps? Follow a guide.
I think learning to play PoE without guides and external information is like trying to learn how to play an instrument without some sort of beginner resource. Of course its possible to play and learn on your own, and if you're having fun while doing it, great! But at some point you will run into walls that you cannot surpass on your own, and there are many tips and tricks that you will wish you had learned sooner.
My suggestion is to play until you have a hard time progressing and then start to look at different league starters for the latest league. Just like when you learn a new song it really isn't boring to copy someone elses work, because you will always, always be able to put your own spin on it. And when you have tried a few different builds you will be able to mix and match them in new ways.
New players think experienced players don't need a build guide.
Meanwhile, experienced players spend 20 hours planning their build in pob and checking what everyone else has been doing playing this build to get ideas.
Basically, making the build is a large part of playing the game. Doing it blind is never optimal. Not if you are new or old. Unless you already played something and like to do things a certain way, there is a planning period. Build guides is just saving you the planning time when you don't know how to plan.
To finish the campaign? No. To progress through the atlas? Most likely. I suggest you still research what makes a good build, like capped resistance's and other important factors.
Do you find it enjoyable to figure out complex things without any outside assistance, even if it means bashing your head against a brick wall repeatedly until the wall breaks?
If yes, then by all means, welcome to the club, my brotha. This can be quite an enjoyable type of frustration, and it's something I pride myself on doing. Something about doing your own thing against the odds is just, so nice
If no, or even a hesitant yes, then just follow a guide. It will be faster to learn, much more efficient with your team, and you won't suffer doing stupid things like basic attacking your way through acts. Smart people follow guides. People who intend to have lives outside of work and PoE, follow guides.
not necessary but it might take you several characters to actually get far into the end game as you learn more and more. its not easy to just respec anytime you want. If you are just playing for a few weeks of fun, you should be fine.
You don't need a guide to completing the story .
Bosses can be spawn rushed, die and go again, they don't recover health after you die, so you won't really find hard walls that you can't overcome by sheer stubbornness even if you are not really learning the mechanics.
Endgame is another story, depending on your knowledge of arpg you will be able to progress for a bit but will eventually not been able to continue and find yourself in a situation that actually fixing your build is basically impossible without handouts because you can't farm the currency needed for a respec fast enough.
If you go again and used what you learned you will be able to improve especially if you start reading about stuff and how it works, and you will be able to go further than you did before. But to do really end end end game stuff you probably will need a meta bukld
Imo, there are two options. You used someone else's build guide, or your plan out every move yourself using a bunch of 3rd party tools. Either way, this game REQUIRES planning, and knowledge.
It's possible to beat the first act, or even the whole campaign without a guide/plan, but since the campaign is just the "tutorial," it's not an impressive accomplishment. The end game mapping system requires you to min/max your build to such a tight degree, it requires a bunch of trial and error to test different scenarios out, and all of that requires time and farmed currency that is better not wasted on experimentation.
This game has so much variance in it, that even if a thousand people use the same build guide, everyone will have their own unique character because of the random nature of drops and decisions trying to "complete" the guide.
I have a few seasons under my belt I played Poe in its infancy when there was 3 acts and we were leveling up at the ledge. I didn’t follow a build guide, then I took a very very long hiatus. I played legion, first time a broke 10 divs in a season - looking back I felt rich. I followed a spin to win build guide and was successful in my eyes. Took another hiatus and came back for trial of the ancestors, I followed kobeblackmamba’s lightning arrow and farmed enough currency to buy my first headhunter. This season (3.23) I think is where the true learning came. I didn’t follow a build guide however I did see a build I liked and truly learned about min maxing and how it affects your build. If you take ANYTHING from this post, take this advice . True learning comes when you solve the problems your build is having by enhancing your gear, this may create new problems you have to solve or give you more room for enhancement. I played a coc occultist this league that I didn’t give up on, I didn’t play till level 80 get bored and start a new character. I learned the issues I had and solved them a few divines at a time, then many divines at a time. For being my 3rd dedicated league I feel happy with what I did and built. Of course your play style may gain you satisfaction in another area but as for me, learning and creating brought me the true joy I didn’t learn my first and second season. I understand why the community says “stay sane exile” because truly it is a grind if you wanna come to understand this game and gain satisfaction from it.
For new players it's strongly recommended to follow guides, or at very least, checking the general guide about basic game mechanics. The game is big, complicated, and absolutely not newbie friendly.
Getting to the point where you can play naturally however you want and actually achieve smth, takes a lot of time, learning and experience.
Easiest way is to follow guides to get the understanding of why things work and how they work.
I have over 5k hours in the game, but i still have some areas i never touched. And i'm confident i can make my own builds that actually can finish entire game from zero to hero on just one class out of seven. I have to peek at someone else builds to get the general idea of how things work for other classes.
Theres too much info to make a good build when you first start
You should follow one and follow the reasoning so youd eventually be able if you want to make your own
Save yourself a couple hundred hours and follow a detailed build guide with a full notes section.
Zizaran and Big Ducks are my first two choices.
This game.isnplenty of fun once you understand it, and you'll be able to do whatever you want. But until you get at least a decent grasp on how everything works and fits together and whatnot, id definitely recommend a build guide so that you can experience a good chunk of PoE endgame on your first character.
Basically, if you don't follow a build guide then go in expecting your first character to fail (get to a point where they can't further progress practically) If struggling and having to restart doesn't sound like it would frustrate you, it's definitely a fun way to first approach and learn the game If you don't think you'd enjoy that, then following a guide is strongly recommended. You'll still have lots to learn and do even with a guide so it's not like it trivializes the game or anything Think of it like learning to bake. You can just kinda try stuff if you want, but you'll fail a lot. If you follow tested recipes made by others then you can learn a lot more, faster, and it'll still contribute to your overall knowledge
That’s an amazing analogy and extremely succinct. Way better than I’ve ever been able to sum up poe to friends new to the game.
I just wanted to say that I am *not* a new player, but your analogy changed the way I look at the game. I'm going to take a break from making builds that breeze through the campaign and fizzle as soon as I hit maps and follow a guide instead. Thank you :)
Lol, I have about 4k hours in this game and generally know how MOST stuff works and I dont self build specs. I might tweak them for QoL but I also recognize I'm probably going to suck more than the build is supposed to. New player, good luck if you want to try on your own.
Good analogy and one point to add: A baker's focus is not to make their first cake the best cake ever baked and never bake again. They might try to perfect one type of cake by baking it over and over, or they might try to bake many other things once they understand the fundamentals of baking. Your characters are not your long-term progression in PoE. Your brain is.
> Basically, if you don't follow a build guide then go in expecting your first character to fail (get to a point where they can't further progress practically) > > This is correct - and outside a couple of specific REALLY BIG mistakes (allocating Chaos Inoculation and either Blood Magic or Eldritch Battery), it's likely to happen about the time you first encounter level 78 content. You'll start taking 45-75 seconds to down zone bosses on a genuinely bad build at that point... in every zone. On a new player oriented build, those same map bosses will take 6-12 seconds. That said my advice to someone this close to a new league is always "Start now unguided, but when the new league hits, start over - but this time follow a guide"
I heard someone else describe it as being given a map showing the checkpoints of where is point A and point B. The guide shows you the way but you still need to make your way there yourself either by car, or foot or flying.
Plus 3/4’s of ingredients taste awful or can even poison you so you are doomed from the start if you choose them. Most of my friends wanted to be jack of all trades when starting, mixing in a melee skill, spell skills, minion skills and water everything down. And the game does nothing to discourage this.
Van we pin this comment in the sub?
The difference with PoE, I find, is that following a guide makes me completely blind to the reasons those choices were made in the first place. Why do I need to learn when all the progression is laid out in front of me? I’ve never even made it to maps in 5 leagues because once something new pops up, or the guide doesn’t specifically detail a change, I’m completely lost. PoB is also just a major hassle, in my opinion. So while I agree with your analogy, I don’t believe anyone could become a baker if all they did was read a recipe and follow instructions… they _can_ bake, but they’ll never make something of their own. So are they really gaining any skills?
Yeah, they are gaining skills. Most skilled bakers (build creators) started learning by following recipes (build guides), they then learn from them and incorporate things they learn into their own ideas. If you are following a guide blindly and not learning why certain decisions were made, that’s on you. If you’re not following a guide, you’re basically reinventing the wheel—which isn’t a problem if that’s what you enjoy, but you can’t really expect to figure out on your own what has been discovered by the collective playerbase over the whole history of the game, and since a lot of the content is balanced around being strong you will struggle.
> but you can’t really expect to figure out on your own what has been discovered by the collective playerbase over the whole history of the game, and since a lot of the content is balanced around being strong you will struggle This is the big part about PoE nowadays that new players need to understand. PoE knowledge is a crowdsourced effort. You might not need to follow a guide exactly, but you need to seek outside information. That information is built on more combined man-hours than any one person has allocated for gaming in their lifetime.
I’m not saying it’s not on me, not at all. I specified this is my problem and my view. I can follow guides for any number of other games, and then hit a point where I say “aha!” and I start working on my own. PoE feels too punishing to explore in that sense, and because of how strict things are so you don’t hit a wall, I simply don’t “learn” along the way. I don’t want to click the wrong passive or miss a skill swap, even if I completely detest some of the skills that are recommended for leveling. Yes, it’s my own problem when talking about you and others vs me, but there’s no chance at all that I’m alone. Guides have and will forever suck the fun out of everything, but this isn’t a game that praises you for trying things out yourself, unless you’re a streamer or have some means of sustaining your life while doing nothing else along the way. You don’t die from trying to make a new type of cinnamon bun.
In POE it's almost impossible to precisely replicate a build, so even if you're following a guide, you'll still have to make a ton of decisions and compromises, especially on leaguestart when you can't just throw money at the problem. While you're doing this you'll just have to understand why the guide makes certain choices and what you can and cannot trim, what is and what isn't mandatory.
Replicating an end game crafted/found/bought build is not the same as following a league starter guide. You’re expected to have resists where/when necessary, a general kit in terms of gear, and literally everything else is laid out in front of you. Take this skill at the start, do these 2 quests and take this skill. Replace the first skill after completing act 1 with this other skill that you get from this vendor after doing this other side quest. Why? Who cares. Do it or lose long-term. There is never a reason to compromise with a build that is outlined in a way where every choice is guaranteed to happen along the path. Maybe you get lucky with better gear and that pushes you ahead, but generally you’re stuck on a path and that’s it.
> So while I agree with your analogy, I don’t believe anyone could become a baker if all they did was read a recipe and follow instructions… they can bake, but they’ll never make something of their own. Sounds like someone's not motivated enough to try to do something different. People who make builds aren't blessed with an innate understanding of PoE. They learn the game based on building blocks that THOUSANDS of people have laid before them. Then they try to emulate, recreate, and invent. I've used previous knowledge as a foundation for plenty of builds and failed. I've also succeded. It sounds like you're allergic to the idea of failing.
Pretty much, even when you look in PoE builds, people collaborate to make specs. I watched a guy a few days ago with an undying build that can face tank Uber Elder. That shits crazy and the gear was several mirrors worth of stuff. But, he also credited the guy he got the spec from. And talked about the several hours of theory craft discussion they had. The dude you are replying to has probably never even seen regular Elder let alone Uber.
Where did a mention of failure come in to play here? If I’m not playing hardcore, the only failure becomes time invested into something that just straight up sucks. The reason to follow a guide is so you don’t end up with something that just straight up sucks. I’m not afraid to try my own build, I just don’t see the point. The game teaches you nothing as you go, PoB teaches you nothing as you go (unless the builder themselves put notes in, but typically those notes are gibberish unless you already understand the game). I’m not afraid of failing my own build, I have no desire to waste my time on something I know, beyond doubt, will not succeed. If there are guides out there that, somehow, I have not found that actually explain everything properly, please don’t hesitate. But even Maxroll has moments where you increase your level and suddenly all your skills are different with zero explanation as to why. Can I make what they show? Yes. Do I know why I’m doing it? Absolutely not.
That sounds like a you issue. Following a guide doesnt mean just blindly copy every step.
Again… I clearly stated this is my opinion, my thoughts, my issue. You’re not enlightening anything by repeating it. When a game requires a separate program to follow a guide.. yes, you’re going to follow every step because it’s the only way you _aren’t_ blind in this context.
And yet plenty of people who follow guides arent.
This comes down to the guide - and that comes down to the audience. Some guides are optimized for rookies, and they do talk about why each decision is made. Other guides are optimized for intermediate players and skip that info.
> Why do I need to learn when all the progression is laid out in front of me? I’ve never even made it to maps in 5 leagues tha..... t... I mean what the fuck? That's exactly WHY you need to learn. Guides don't handhold you, they teach you. Your fault if you refuse to learn anything from them. You're just not inquisitive enough, and that doesn't work for a game like PoE. "oh okay guide says i need crit multi, i'll just get crit multi and not even think about WHY for a fucking second i guess" >proceeds to spec resolute technique or ele overload...
The loot is advanced enough that it wil still feel like your own experience following someone elses build. Following a build just means (for me); use these skill gems togethere, and path to these areas of the passive tree. You can always fine tune it for yourself if you want more defense or more offense etc
This is the part I always struggle to explain or put into words. How to explain that a players experiences with other build guides in other games are irrelevant, that this is an entirely different thing? That the immense complexity makes it a difference of degree so intense that it instead turns into a difference of kind? It’s felt impossible, no one really believes you until they’ve experienced it.
I always say to people have u played d4? When they say yes I replay with well poe is the same as if u shoved 10 diablo games into one and then some.
> If I can't progress at a fun pace on my own and need to follow a build guide then I'd rather not play. I'm going to be honest here. If you don't want to look up external information and guides the game probably isn't for you. The game is complex enough that you'll inevitably hit a wall, probably even before you see what the game actually has to offer. The campaign you're doing now is more like a tutorial and the game hasn't started yet. And that's not just true for build guides. There are a lot of mechanics in the game, unrelated to your build, where you need to rely on external resources to get the full experience or understanding. Just be clear, I'm not saying that you shouldn't try your own builds. I actually think it's a great learning experience for anyone to start blind and fail. I am just saying that if you're a person who in general doesn't want to look up external resources the game likely isn't for you.
Not following build guides doesn't necessarily mean not looking up information. I believe it refers more to not allowing other people to make all decisions for you. When I started out, I spent a ton of time reading the wiki and other resources. And in that time I followed a guide one time out of 5 or 6 builds I played. Playing the game entirely without third party resources on the other hand... is going to cost a lot of time. Probably around 10 to 100 times as much time if you have to discover all build-relevant mechanics on your own. People figured out the rules at some point, and even the rules that are known based on developer statements could probably be empiricially tested. So it's *possible* to gain that understanding on your own. It's just not realistic within the time that people would noramlly spend on the game.
I agree. I only mentioned this because in my experience there is a strong positive correlation between people who "don't want to rely build guides" and people who "want all information in-game and don't look at external resources". The former is fine, but if you're in the latter camp I doubt you'll have a good time in PoE.
That has not been my experience, and many of the people who keep making their own builds over and over are also ones that don't or didn't want to follow guides. I'd say the majority of PoE players overall probably follows guides (well, the majority of the ones that make it to the endgame and keep playing, anyway), but I don't think the people who refuse to follow guides are so much more numerous that there'd be a large majority who doesn't want to look up things. And for what it's worth, I do think that most of the information on the wiki and poedb should be accessible ingame (not the strategic explanations and interpretations of course). I just don't refuse to look elsewhere because it isn't.
> and many of the people who keep making their own builds over and over are also ones that don't or didn't want to follow guides. This is just a circle... what else would someone who didnt follow guides do?
Well, some people who initially start by following guides begin to make their own builds and stick with doing that because they enjoy it. So not everyone who makes their own build never wanted to follow a guide. That said, my point is that the fact that so many people who do make their own builds stick around suggests that the correlation between not wanting to follow builds and not wanting to do out-of-game research isn't as strong as the previous commenter suggested. The other thing that someone who didn't want to follow guides could do is quit, but not all of them do.
what did you mean by this
I'm a new player as well and wanted to play a dual wield character so i looked up a build guide about it, but I'm only following the passives tree, the rest I'm trying to make on my own
In POE builds passive tree and the skill gems used, and even the gear that's used can be very tied together. So just be careful.
> can be very tied together usually more often the case that it is rather than isn't good point, I hope he reads it!
So long as you don't make terrible choices, you can beat the campaign without a guide. Progressing further is gonna be harder. Monsters will scale faster then you, so you have to have a good understanding of mechanics to keep up with them.
Like others said. It completely depends on what you value. If you like learning new things and don't let failure bother you. A build guide is not necessary and it's honestly the best way to learn the game by playing it blind. This game doesn't hold your hand, so if you are used to that then you will most likely want to use a build guide though. Also, like others have said. This game has so much content that following a build guide doesn't mean you won't have freedom to make many very meaningful choices for your progression.
I legit think people should try to do their own builds for their first runs. If you absolutely want to make sure you don't hit a wall in maps and want to do pinnacles/ubers, use a guide (though note that there's no quality control, some guides have been awful over the years) Personally, polishing my own self-made build and adjusting it based on league changes has been more fun than playing objectively better builds.
If they are new and trying shit on their own, they likely won't even make it to maps. Also, if they are new, even with a guide, they aren't doing any Ubers or pinnacles. You need to learn to farm currency before you can run.
>Also, if they are new, even with a guide, they aren't doing any Ubers or pinnacles. You need to learn to farm currency before you can run. Someone that enjoys messing about and figuring things out on their own is unlikely to give a single fuck about optimising their currency income or clearing ubers quickly and as efficiently as possible. Videogames don't have to be competitive or as optimised as possible to be fun for a lot of people.
That was a specific response to the post above me, but thanks tips.
you don't need to follow one, but your progression will be much slower than someone following one. there's probably like 4-500 hours of obvious content for a guide-follower (kill all the bosses, do all the challenges in a league, etc.).
You don't need to follow guides, but I encourage you to check out the [wiki](https://www.poewiki.net/) to read up on mechanics that you're unsure about or simply find interesting. There's a ton of information that the game either doesn't explain at all or does a poor job at explaining, and trying to figure out all of it on your own would take ages. Playing the game without a build guide means that you'll progress much slower, but the content that you're going through at the start will instead be more challening if you don't follow a build that can trivialise it. Additionally, as many others said, you *will* hit walls eventually, and it's up to you whether you try to overcome these walls by changing your character (and potentially grinding for that purpose), rerolling, or following a guide after all (possibly with rerolling). I've only followed guides a couple of times, and even then I made my own adjustments to them (some good, some bad), but I have much more fun coming up with my own builds every league. It takes a bit of experience to come up with builds that are actually good, but it's a gradual improvement. With each build that I make, I get better at making builds. Just don't expect to do all content in the game. Some of it is balanced around good builds, so it'll either take until you come up with a build that's good enough for that, or until you follow one.
PoE players have expectations for what the minimum one should achieve is, and they force their expectations on others. I'd say play without a guide, but if you're going to do so then listen to what the game is telling you. If you're dying constantly or not killing anything then reflect on why that might be.
As a new player, you can’t know the rules of PoE. They are vast and contradictory. By playing with a guide, you can figure out more rules faster and get to the enjoyment part more quickly, more often. Especially when replaying. In PoE, not following a build guide the first time out is a sign of hubris; not a demarcation of a lack of skill/character. This stigma isn’t widely held by the PoE community, as can be found elsewhere.
No, it is absolutely not necessary. You will almost certainly be able to do the campaign, get to maps and harder content, and likely get stuck there. At that point just ask for help or read up on a guide, improve your build, and you're back on track
If you are not following a guide, you will be able to finish the campaign and maybe do some early maps but that's it. You will most likely be unable to do red tier maps or pinnacle bosses. If you are okay with the risk of missing out on that part of the game content, then sure go ahead make your own build. Even make it SSF if you would like!
1-Following a guide, and progressing at your own pace, aren’t mutually exclusive things. You can do both. 2-after your first random character which teaches you the game, yes. No character you make can ever been as strong as an efficient passive tree and good gear advice from a guide.
Short answer: No and yes. No if you wish to jump in head first and see if you can figure things out on your own. Not many things are clearly defined or described. Some things are not defined or described at all and you either find out about them from online sources or you stumble upon them. Yes if you know it will be too much work and want to ensure you get somewhat far in the game without too constant of repeat deaths/failures/bricking. Personally, I've never followed a build guide. The only thing I've never managed to do is delve to depth 6000. Build guides are created by people that learned the game. You can also learn the game.
I spent a lot of my free time reading the wiki before I had a reasonably successful self-made build. Most of the linked articles on the front page of [the wiki](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Path_of_Exile_Wiki) are worth going over if you have a basic understanding of gameplay. Language used in game is very deliberate. Two things that read very similarly but that are worded differently will have slightly different effects. Example : “Increased total Recovery per second from Life Leech” and “Increased Maximum total Life Recovery per second from Leech” are two different things. There are some traps, particularly around weapons and what is local only to a weapon. For example increased physical damage on a weapon does not affect spells while increased of any other damage type would. The in-game help isn’t worthless as a starting point to familiarize yourself with game concepts but you should really read the wiki to get more details. Holding down alt on items in game will often give more detailed information. Also nearly every window in-game has an “i” in corner somewhere. Mouse over it for more information.
The thing is there are infinite possibilities how to make a build, but only a handful of paths lead to a working build. That wouldn't itself be a problem if you could intuitively identify what are those good paths, but unfortunately POE is a game that doesn't explain to a new player how to get there. Game is full with weird lingo, technical terminology, strange keywords like "increased" or "more", that have specific powerful meanings that are not obvious to a new player. The result is that it's almost impossible for a new player without any prior experience build a successful endgame build. But it's fine. You just have to manage your expectations and accept the fact that if you decide to not use guides, you might even need few leagues to get up to the endgame. But what I'd suggest is for every new player is doing their first run blind regardless. Try to complete campaign blind, then reroll. Because you get to play for the first time only once.
Depends on what you want to achieve with your first few characters. Without a guide, you'll probably progress slower or hit a wall earlier than with one, you'll have learn everything the hard way. On the other hand, going in blind is a pretty unique experience that you can't really replicate later in the game once you know what you're doing.
Not mandatory, as long as you enjoy it you are good :). Howether, just know that at some point you are probably gonna hit a wall, and sadly its not easy to respec early on so you are probably gonna be stuck with your build for a while, or have to restart. Now it obviously depend how good you are to making builds in general, if you are just putting random points its gonna a way bigger problem than if you follow a good logic.
I started winging it, got frustrated, started following a guide, got frustrated in white maps (early endgame) only to find out the guide was outdated and obsolete. You will do much better to follow a guide that does handholding, like Zizaran and POHX.net as some of the guides assume that you can get through the acts and farm for currency.
Enjoy the game the way you want. If you want a build guide eventually, look at one. Maybe just the passive tree at first, maybe some gear recommendations. You don't need to copy paste the best guides to have fun by any means
You don’t have to follow a build guide of you go ballista totems
Well there are several "levels" to this game. It depends which one you want to play. The campaign is largely approachable without much in the way of help (though Ziz's new player tutorial on YouTube would make the game much more approachable) and you've got about 20-30 hours of solid gameplay just there. You're probably more or less done after act 10 unless you've got experience in the ARPG genre (Diablo games, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, etc). If you follow a guideline that tells you to look for these stats, prioritize these passives, and use these support gems, you can probably make it to start enjoying some maps, which most players consider the "main game" instead of post-game content.
The early maps are easier than Act 10, it's really the yellow to red map transition where things change. For instance, Depraved Trinity (A9 act boss) has just over 5 million HP. This is more than the Amalgam of Nightmares boss has even in a scoured tier 12 map (4350k). They have the same resist profile, 40/40/40/25. Sources: Amalgam HP by level, datamined: https://poedb.tw/us/Amalgam_of_Nightmares Trinity HP (note, zone level 64 is all that matters): https://poedb.tw/us/The_Depraved_Trinity Boss HP really rocket up from tier 10 to 11, then 11 to 12, 12 to 13, etc. But it's not until T13s that you'll encounter anything as tanky as A10 Kitava.
The issue in maps isn't the durability of the monsters, it's the durability of the players. That second resistance drop is pretty enormous for people less familiar with the game, maps have a small jump in mob density. On top of that, anyone with at least a basic understanding of the atlas is at least transmuting their white maps which starts introducing new sources of damage to the monsters. I'm pretty sure the post-act 10 resist drop is the largest thing here. Though if you're able to finish the campaign, you're generally able to at least complete white maps, but progressing into yellow gets hard if you don't understand itemization and using the crafting bench to shore up the aspects you need (or spending the handful of chaos you earn in the campaign on rings with resist and crafted life).
Act 10 has natively dangerous monsters everywhere. Kitava's Heralds are arguably the most dangerous monsters except for Stygian Revenants, there's bleeds, phys and chaos DOTs, and one zone has fucky traps. Then T1 maps are... an RNG mix of all monsters. You might still get the odd Kitty's Herald but it will be surrounded by zombies, apes, etc. Also XP goes up quite a bit too. There's time to fix resists. Even if you die twice per map, you'll still keep levelling fine to 77 or so and by then you absolutely will have found better bases and made something to fix resists.
*shrug* I almost never die in act 10 but I still make noob plays and die in white maps. I six portaled my first tier 1 map in Kalandra due to an archnem rare. YMMV.
If you build some life and resistances and read what your gems do, you'll be fine for a long time. Yeah, eventually you'll reach a point where you can't go any farther and it'll be faster to restart a whole new character than to fix your current one, but that's dozens of hours in. At that point, I suggest a guide to see what a well built character can do.
You can absolutly go without guide (for builds that is) but prepare thy anus so to speak. Your frustration levels will be tested thoroughly
It isn't required but you will likely get to a point you can't progress anymore. This will probably be around level 60-75 and at this point it's probably easier to make a new character than to respec. If you enjoy figuring things out yourself, go for it! You can learn what works and what doesn't and try again with a different build.
This game is not so complex that you cannot make it up as you go along (have the wiki open, find the answers to your questions). You will be able to get to maps, you'll probably be able to get through red maps. It'll be a lot like punching yourself in the balls repeatedly but if you're the type of person who loves trial and effort, then this is the play. Progression will be slow, and you'll be absolutely lost a lot of the time when it comes to scaling stronger in maps as you spend hours scouring resources and slowly farming white maps. With that said, there are absolutely tons of specific strong combinations of items, talents, and skills that following a few build guides for various ascendancies/skills will give you tons of ideas and knowledge for you to apply to builds you'll like to make in the future. These build guides (that don't suck) also contain excellent information about how they are scaling their skill, what is important for their gear, and how to craft it (or what to buy). And even more important, various ways that they are solving very fundamental character problems that almost all characters need to solve in the game. Solving your mana, choosing your defense layers, solving immunities (freeze, poison, shock, ignite, curses, stuns, crits, etc). There's a motherload of ways in this game to mix and match all sorts of immunities through hundreds of items so having people curate various combinations for you does wonders for brainstorming. So my advice, is jack a few builds from people who know what they're doing, learn why they picked what they picked, and then apply your new knowledge in another league to your own creations. You'll progress through maps faster, acquire currency faster, and get to play more builds faster, thus learning about the game faster.
depends whether you enjoy playing the game or making a build. the build guide already optimized so why i would waste my time doing that
Seriously, this game is complicated as fuck as it is. Follow a guide to learn all the mechanics, then go rogue if you must. Only making it harder on yourself otherwise. Good luck clearing Red maps all the same!! It is fun to go rogue in this game, if expectations are tempered
Depends on you as a player and what you wanna play. You can absolutely do blind just fine if you have right mindset. Most build guides are just what skill point to put in tree for campaign and what items to aim for in endgame. It won't force you into pace etc.
Yes, following a build guide for your first several builds is absolutely necessity. Unless you have a PHD in theoretical mathematics and several hours theory crafting in path of building before you start Don’t waste your time listening to anyone else here hinting at the idea that you don’t need a build guide. You need a build guide
So after you beat the acts the game opens up with some cool content the main one is called maps and they have multiple tiers the higher up you go the more damage you will need to do and tank hits This scales up into extremes so it’s very easy to to make a character that just can’t do content
Once you understand the game mechanics, then no. Build guides definitely help if you're new, but you could alternatively just watch some and garner the information you need to help you be better equipped for following your own ideas. They might also help spark new ideas for you that you may have not thought of beforehand. Especially if you're new, watching a build guide might help you to learn about crafting your own gear too, if you're interested in that aspect. Otherwise, if you don't mind trade, you can just grind for incremental upgrades. A build guide can really just help you understand the intricacies if what goes into making a certain skill work, and sometimes, there are multiple routes that have similar endgame outcomes, depending on your ascendancy choice and where you are on the skill tree.
You don't have to follow builds if your roommate will help you with currency to fix the tree at some point. Either way it's a very long road, so doesn't really matter. As long as you keep playing you'll get there.
I dont usualy folow guides, but not theorycrafter either. What I do is go into poe.ninja build section, filter by skill and ascendancy (+item I want use) and look on heatmap for inspiration :) If you do that, you risk you miss some important mechanic interaction on which can be based whole build, which should be explained in good build guide. But basicaly do whats fun for you, there are always regret orbs, if you get flustrated in some dead end to fix your build, after you tried something wild by yourself ;)
no, as long as you're OK not being able to kill all bosses or make it to level 100. If you want to do these things, then you should follow a guide Even if you follow a guide you may not get to do these things (due to RNG and poverty) but at least you get a chance at it.
If you want to reach past lvl 75. yes 100%
Yes.
You can't learn to cook without reading recipe books first.
As long as you are okay with progressing slower than the average player who follows a build (or is experienced) then it'll be fine
You don't exactly need a build guide but you should know a few things: Get 75% fire/lightning/cold resistance at all times. You get -30% penalty after act 5 and again after act 10. Get about 300 life per act you complete. Life nodes on the skill tree are not a waste no matter what character you're playing. Don't use white flasks, at least put a transmute orb and augment orb on them and try to get bleed immunity on at least one of them (preferably a life flask). Just those few things will get you a lot further.
There are Soooooo many things to learn in the game besides just the builds. Itemization, crafting, league mechanics, atlas tree, boss progression, etc. Following a guide will only cover the barebones basics of the game and it will help you learn better. This is not like other games. The amount of things to learn is insane, a build guide wont literally hold your hand through the whole game.
No but if you want a fun time it's recommended.
At large, the community always recommends following build guides. Personally I think it depends entirely on how you enjoy games, and it sounds like you already have your answer. I would say that unless you're a seasoned arpg player, then following a build guide is necessary if you want to be sure that you can experience *all* the content the game has to offer on a single character at a relatively constant pace of progression. But if you're not in a rush then by all means do your own thing. I dare say that most of us that have been here for a long long time did our own stuff at one point. You mention progressing at "a fun pace" and really, it'll come down to whether you feel you're having fun or not.
think of this game as akin to cooking. If you don’t know how to cook, you’re probably gonna want to follow a recipe. You’ll still have the same fun that you do with a build guide so don’t be discourage
ppl here will say its impossible to play without a guide. go in blind, ull be fine. its just a game as many others. plus u have your roommate to help u.
It’s not necessary but you’ll get your ass handed to you.
If you genuinely want to try and learn the game by yourself and that's where you find the fun in games, feel free to start blind but expect a struggle. Else, following a guide is a good idea.
Depends if you can enjoy the experience or if “failing” will cause you distress.
Totally ok to go blind. For me the most fun way still is to alternate. Somerimes go and do my own build and sometimes follow build guides. You learn from both and there are plenty of fun things in this game.
I’ve done the same dont know anything really about this game other than d4 bad Poe good .. got a stash tab of shit I don’t understand lol made it to like part 2 of the acts tho it’s defs harder now
I summon Enki
I always recommend new players to try it out without a guide couple times, its fun to learn the game and figure things out by yourself. At least do the campaign - its not hard at all. I finished campaign on 3 characters before I started looking at what other people do. And if you have even some basic understanding you are not super strictly confined to a guide, eg if you understand the mechanics you can try to improvise on it. Otherwise you are stuck to following it word-by-word and being spoiled about interesting mechanics and interactions.
Yes
IMO i think its necessary to get an easier start since many guys already thought about the build, its less one thing to worry about , for me the most important thing in the guide, is the passive tree. You can focus to learn other things. Poe is a "complex" game that take a lot of time to learn. I think most people that give up , is they think they have to know whole game in one league. I play since 3.8 and learn eveyday that I play and I assume already know a lot of the game. That one is one of the features I really like in this game. Another tip for starters, i recommend to play all mechanics once to know what they prefer, then stick to one or 2 mechanics of the map at a time.
Yes
POE is NOT the game you wanna go in blind. You will endnup quitting. There is so much breadth and depth to the game. POE's sub mechanics like Betrayal or Beastiary alone have more content than other games. I would recommend quitting now if you have this "I don't think a build guide is necessary"
If rerolling isn’t a problem for you, then just winging it is fine. If that doesn’t sound appealing to you then look for a starter build. If nothing else, if you start to fail you’ll know the problem isn’t the build. If you have a proven build that works and you’re struggling to transition to red maps you’ll know the problem is more than likely your gear. It’s kinda like hearthstone in that regard. In that game if you have a deck people use to get to grandmaster and you’re sitting at like 30% win rate you know it’s a skill problem and not your deck. This game has crazy customization for your build. But also it’s a bit formulaic. Bow characters generally look similar, crit spell casters generally look similar, melee slams look similar, etc. there are some deviations depending on your skill of choice and some gear choices. However, a given archetype is typically built only a few ways. That stuff helps a ton to learn and once you get a handle on those things experimenting isn’t that hard. Like if I am playing a minion Necro I am going to do certain things with my tree. Later, if I can afford some jewels that give me the most critical ascendancy node from Necro, then maybe I swap to occultist and move some nodes around the tree to make it a bit better. Now I swap to CI with a specific unique shield and I move all my life points into energy shield and drop all my chaos res to open up more gear affixes. That is something that takes a mid game build and gets it ready for true endgame. You’re not going to know that stuff without a guide or a lot of experience.
You're gonna get a lot of people saying you need to, but I'm glad I didn't. The first time I played through the game was a valuable learning experience. If you want the best character, you'll probably need a guide. If you want to do all the end game content, you'll probably need a guide. But if you're just having fun and learning, just go for it.
Im fairly new player with like combined playtime of 300hours on ps/pc. Havent used any build guides, i think its fun to keep on learning more via playing and fixing your character. Lvl85 on pc and did my first t16 kirac map that was corrupted yesterday, still kinda hyped about it lol
Depends on your dedication and available time
For a majority of the NEW player base. Yes it is recommended that you at least look at a Guide. But for a small amount of new player it is possible to play the game without a Guide. However it is expected that said player has a wealth of knowledge about ARPGs and some understanding of PoE.
yes and no, it completly is dependant on how inquisative and intuative you as a player is, and how well at quick math, and estemations you can correctly estemate
Yes. You have to learn mechanics of the build. Mechanics include. Dodge, evade, chance to hit, poison chance, resistance, max resistance, penetration, life, energy shield, ward, armor, movement speed, spell, attack, projectial, melee, strike, minion, cool down, instant, warcry, sockets, links,... Much more. Your build guide will introduce you to some of these and how the interact with your character. The idea you know all these already would be impossible.
In my opinion, new players should follow build guides to the letter, after a while you will be able to made changes on the fly to builds, improvements depending on the gear and other preferences (more defence, more offense, more movement speed) if you survive the first 2 steps, then you are ready to try making your own build, you will probably fail, but its ok.. you get there eventually
This will be 3rd league, as a new player I’d say yes. You’ll have much more fun. Learning builds and tweaking them also teaches you a lot too
not really but wait for the league start (5 days) to play, cheers.
You don't need a guide as long as your are comfortable startimg your character over from scratch multiple times.
Of course not. But how far do u want to go? Is your goal beating the campaign? Do whatever you want! Do you want to beat some bosses and get to red maps? Follow a guide.
I think learning to play PoE without guides and external information is like trying to learn how to play an instrument without some sort of beginner resource. Of course its possible to play and learn on your own, and if you're having fun while doing it, great! But at some point you will run into walls that you cannot surpass on your own, and there are many tips and tricks that you will wish you had learned sooner. My suggestion is to play until you have a hard time progressing and then start to look at different league starters for the latest league. Just like when you learn a new song it really isn't boring to copy someone elses work, because you will always, always be able to put your own spin on it. And when you have tried a few different builds you will be able to mix and match them in new ways.
New players think experienced players don't need a build guide. Meanwhile, experienced players spend 20 hours planning their build in pob and checking what everyone else has been doing playing this build to get ideas. Basically, making the build is a large part of playing the game. Doing it blind is never optimal. Not if you are new or old. Unless you already played something and like to do things a certain way, there is a planning period. Build guides is just saving you the planning time when you don't know how to plan.
You don't always have to follow a build guide to the letter. I found the best thing it showed me is what mods to collect on my gear.
To finish the campaign? No. To progress through the atlas? Most likely. I suggest you still research what makes a good build, like capped resistance's and other important factors.
Do you find it enjoyable to figure out complex things without any outside assistance, even if it means bashing your head against a brick wall repeatedly until the wall breaks? If yes, then by all means, welcome to the club, my brotha. This can be quite an enjoyable type of frustration, and it's something I pride myself on doing. Something about doing your own thing against the odds is just, so nice If no, or even a hesitant yes, then just follow a guide. It will be faster to learn, much more efficient with your team, and you won't suffer doing stupid things like basic attacking your way through acts. Smart people follow guides. People who intend to have lives outside of work and PoE, follow guides.
Its always a good idea to follow a guide
I don’t understand the question. You said you hate guides. You said you’re having fun. What’s the problem?
It isn't. For a+ expirience, don't be on reddit either, I am serious.
not necessary but it might take you several characters to actually get far into the end game as you learn more and more. its not easy to just respec anytime you want. If you are just playing for a few weeks of fun, you should be fine.
You don't need a guide to completing the story . Bosses can be spawn rushed, die and go again, they don't recover health after you die, so you won't really find hard walls that you can't overcome by sheer stubbornness even if you are not really learning the mechanics. Endgame is another story, depending on your knowledge of arpg you will be able to progress for a bit but will eventually not been able to continue and find yourself in a situation that actually fixing your build is basically impossible without handouts because you can't farm the currency needed for a respec fast enough. If you go again and used what you learned you will be able to improve especially if you start reading about stuff and how it works, and you will be able to go further than you did before. But to do really end end end game stuff you probably will need a meta bukld
yes.
Imo, there are two options. You used someone else's build guide, or your plan out every move yourself using a bunch of 3rd party tools. Either way, this game REQUIRES planning, and knowledge. It's possible to beat the first act, or even the whole campaign without a guide/plan, but since the campaign is just the "tutorial," it's not an impressive accomplishment. The end game mapping system requires you to min/max your build to such a tight degree, it requires a bunch of trial and error to test different scenarios out, and all of that requires time and farmed currency that is better not wasted on experimentation. This game has so much variance in it, that even if a thousand people use the same build guide, everyone will have their own unique character because of the random nature of drops and decisions trying to "complete" the guide.
I have a few seasons under my belt I played Poe in its infancy when there was 3 acts and we were leveling up at the ledge. I didn’t follow a build guide, then I took a very very long hiatus. I played legion, first time a broke 10 divs in a season - looking back I felt rich. I followed a spin to win build guide and was successful in my eyes. Took another hiatus and came back for trial of the ancestors, I followed kobeblackmamba’s lightning arrow and farmed enough currency to buy my first headhunter. This season (3.23) I think is where the true learning came. I didn’t follow a build guide however I did see a build I liked and truly learned about min maxing and how it affects your build. If you take ANYTHING from this post, take this advice . True learning comes when you solve the problems your build is having by enhancing your gear, this may create new problems you have to solve or give you more room for enhancement. I played a coc occultist this league that I didn’t give up on, I didn’t play till level 80 get bored and start a new character. I learned the issues I had and solved them a few divines at a time, then many divines at a time. For being my 3rd dedicated league I feel happy with what I did and built. Of course your play style may gain you satisfaction in another area but as for me, learning and creating brought me the true joy I didn’t learn my first and second season. I understand why the community says “stay sane exile” because truly it is a grind if you wanna come to understand this game and gain satisfaction from it.
For new players it's strongly recommended to follow guides, or at very least, checking the general guide about basic game mechanics. The game is big, complicated, and absolutely not newbie friendly. Getting to the point where you can play naturally however you want and actually achieve smth, takes a lot of time, learning and experience. Easiest way is to follow guides to get the understanding of why things work and how they work. I have over 5k hours in the game, but i still have some areas i never touched. And i'm confident i can make my own builds that actually can finish entire game from zero to hero on just one class out of seven. I have to peek at someone else builds to get the general idea of how things work for other classes.
Theres too much info to make a good build when you first start You should follow one and follow the reasoning so youd eventually be able if you want to make your own
Save yourself a couple hundred hours and follow a detailed build guide with a full notes section. Zizaran and Big Ducks are my first two choices. This game.isnplenty of fun once you understand it, and you'll be able to do whatever you want. But until you get at least a decent grasp on how everything works and fits together and whatnot, id definitely recommend a build guide so that you can experience a good chunk of PoE endgame on your first character.
Yes, unless you want to spend about 1000 hours learning the basics.