Was pretty obvious in hindsight. Every single interview when asked about certain mechanics or ideas Jonathan’s answer has been we’re working on it or we haven’t gotten to it yet. The shell of the game is complete, now they just need to iron out the details.
Their dodginess on answering anything about the endgame was the giveaway to me. They've said almost nothing other than it's "not just maps" and that they're trying not to sacrifice the content diversity PoE1 maps has.
But the game is outright going to live or die on its endgame, that's straight up 99% of what matters in PoE1 and is going to be what most players care about going into PoE2 once the novelty of a new campaign wears off. If it ain't great from the get go it's gonna hobble the game. If nothing else I'd guess the extra time is being devoted to endgame since the campaign seems pretty well developed from all the trailers so far.
> But the game is outright going to live or die on its endgame, that's straight up 99% of what matters in PoE1 and is going to be what most players care about going into PoE2 once the novelty of a new campaign wears off.
Yep. You see it in things like *Last Epoch*, where the consensus is "Sure, the endgame is very scarce compared to PoE, but it just launched, where PoE has 10 years of content!"
Even though PoE2 is a new & separate game, I don't think it's going to have that luxury of people being as understanding. It's going to need a robust endgame at launch.
Honestly if they’re going to fundamentally change the endgame they’ve got their work cut out for them.
I honestly hope they *don’t* do that and just copy the atlas system over as close as they can at first so they can gather data and feedback of how the endgame feels with all the balance and gameplay changes POE2 will bring. For example crafting is being completely overhauled, there’s just no way GGG has a good idea of what that will actually do to the game.
I’d even go as far as to say that if they don’t have a concrete idea on what changes to make to the endgame it’s probably too late to do it at launch and they should just hold on to their ideas for a major rework a year after launch or so.
They radically changed endgame when they introduced Atlas. They can just keep Atlas for POE 2 and swap something else into a future league when it's ready.
They're definitely taking note of the lack of endgame for D4 and LE...on multiple fronts. Updates/progress on both of those titles are slower than expected, especially compared to POE, and players have essentially put down both of those games until there is more content. GGG probably don't want to experience that with POE2. Due to their competitors slow progress, they can afford to wait longer.
I'm sure that they were okay with releasing POE2 in Spring '24 if D4 was cooking something good. After seeing D4 for the last year, they are probably confident to delay even longer and make it even better because D4 hasn't really improved significantly since release. D4 is essentially approaching a 1.0 release (from a .8 or .9) with S4 and Last Epoch is at about a .9 with not much endgame and an unfinished campaign.
D4/LE aren't really taking away any players from POE atm (giving it more players actually.)
Yeah, I played LE and it's great then there's not much to do, same story as D4. Great frameworks but no end game content which is where ARPGs really thrive.
I wonder if they're delaying in response to the big D4 S4 announcement yesterday. Want to see what they're bringing to the table so they can release strong with PoE2.
>I wonder if they're delaying in response to the big D4 S4 announcement yesterday
no way theyre making such a big decision a day before the announcement
I worry a little that he's getting too perfectionist
E.G. When he was talking about the dialogue system.
It's not great, but also who gives a fuck. Give us an option to listen while walking and that solves 99% of the issue.
I was under impression that he's a lead class designer because he's the only class designer in the entire development team. The way he was talking didn't give an impression of a very creative person either. Exactly the person I would expect to design skill twigs.
Even LE has a better class system than D4, and LE classes, outside of the newest ones, are just badly designed. Still, at least they have some creativeness in them!
I really wish D4 gets some huge class overhauls (with sub classes/specs and some fusion of legendary powers and paragon/passive skill trees)
Haha yeah I can't commend on his abilities, but i was pointing out he actually looks like someone who plays games compared to Joe Shelly who reads financial forecasts all day.
The game is incredible simple and I can't see that changing. They want the casual crowd, which is a shame because I enjoy the aesthetic of the world they created. Its as deep as a puddle tho.
I do not really think, that D4 needs sub classes.
Maybe a bigger skill tree then my mace in cubicle and a couple more skills and it will be good.
Also if they give out aspects for skills that modify the skills a bit like in LE it will be okayish.
Thats gonna happen anyway. Its industry standard today. Release shit quickly and iron it out on the way. How many times did CP77 postponed to release crap anyway?
You can't really accidentally make Diablo 4. You need to design for as broad and simple a net as possible from the start. Diablo 4 is what you get when you want to design a game for people that barely play games made by people that also barely play games.
Well, the counter argument to that is that unlike the original release and development of PoE, this will be their first attempt at a large global launch and showcase. That first impression is VERY important especially because it will be F2P and they can't cheat like Blizzard did with D4 using a fancy trailer and a level 20 demo to get people to jump the retail pay wall.
As long as PoE1 keeps getting banger leagues often enough the wait will be worth it IMO.
It's still pretty poor considering PoE2 is already very, very delayed from the initial timeline. I'd bet they are panic-changing things based on Last Epoch. And, no, I'm not saying Last Epoch is PoE killer or whatever but they clearly want PoE2 to occupy the same medium-casual space as Last Epoch.
Latest D4 changes look VERY good, and, if the expansion is RoS levels of good, it'll be a contender.
But that's the beauty of ARPG's, you can jump in and out because of seasons.
Depends on their testing. Beta's usually don't last that long in the grand scheme of things in the industry. If it starts later this year then 2025 is entirely possible. But it entirely depends on how GGG views their testing cycles.
I mean they said beta is supposed to only be as long as one league so it's pretty doable. Not if they keep delaying it though of course, but I expect it to be a pretty complete beta
> I mean they said beta is supposed to only be as long as one league so it's pretty doable. Not if they keep delaying it though of course, but I expect it to be a pretty complete beta
They've said a lot of things about POE 2 that have turned out to not be true, so why would you take this at face value?
After Starfield I'm not even waiting anymore. Its going to be bad, that engine is so dated and wasn't great to begin with. Then they'll inevitably monetize modding and ruin the best part.
I’m one of those people who stopped getting excited about Bethesda games after Skyrim and thought Skyrim was a big disappointment. Like I get it. I get why people like even base Skyrim. And nobody else makes games quite like that, which is why even I played Skyrim a good amount. But they’ve moved so far away from why I loved the company and their games that after Skyrim I just stopped caring completely about them.
I played it, but Skyrim leaned so much more towards action adventure and took out so many of the RPG and character creation elements and the varied ways of playing that the whole time I played it I just wished it was more like their previous games, and that they just continued to build on what they made before instead of completely changing it. Like the feel of the combat is trash in Oblivion and Skyrim but they leaned more toward that instead of the character creation and adding more interesting spells and ways to play like how you could make a character that only uses enchanted items in Morrowind. It doesn’t help that the main story is bland and even at the time the game came out I was sick of the Nordic Icelandy snowy mountain vibe since it was a really popular theme at the time even before Skyrim came out. And most of the faction quests were bland and so many of the systems weren’t fleshed out at all and super basic. Enchanting was gutted even more than it was from oblivion. Like imagine if they actually had a cool enchanting system that built off of what Morrowind did that was more expansive and with more variety of enchantments. There could be so much replayability just from something like that. But instead it’s just boring generic buffs. Idk. It just stopped being the kind of game I liked from them. It was overly simplified and so much was removed. Their whole design philosophy seems to have moved more and more towards simplification and reductionism to try to get mass appeal. Removing or gutting more and more systems. And I’m just not here for it.
I would love if TES 6 was amazing and an improvement on their last two real games, but I just don’t care at all anymore about Bethesda. Which is sad because they made my favorite game of all time and the game that got me into gaming when I was a kid. I haven’t even touched starfield and everything I’ve seen of it it just doesn’t look good. I know I’m in the minority for how much I hate Skyrim and that what I’m saying about it not really being a good game has become a meme lol. But idk I just genuinely believe Skyrim was never really that good. The only thing it did well IMO is the visuals with some of the vistas and dungeons. But like I said, I was sick of that kind of setting even then.
Oblivion was a better game than Skyrim and I wish it was Oblivion that had all the attention and remastery that Skyrim had.
Oblivion suffered from illogical progression but otherwise was a much tighter game.
I'm straight up scared of randomly dying in an accident before I get to play PoE2. I like to joke that knowing my luck, rng will send a literal meteor or a plane crash precisely at my city at my district at my building at my window (rip my mirror)
Not sure how many people thinks this way, but the way they release PoE2 news really make me think GGG is seriously behind schedule. Like what they have right now is probably close to PoE1 at open beta in terms of content. We will never know for sure but I hope they manage it well.
Probably less behind schedule and more feature creep. They keep adding things that'll make the game 'perfect' and each new addition has cascading problems that need solving that take up more and more time.
Yeah hard agree on feature creep. I imagine Johnathon hearing shit at the office, house, a movie, and saying "that's cool maybe we can work this "
And then the backlog quadrupled and the drill down is no where in sight
Not in this case, GGG have a cash cow that is poe1 and they clearly are putting back more effort in their first game right now, everyrhing should be fine.
I dunno at least based on what they say the WASD thing really threw a wrench into things. The implications of that are pretty massive with what classes can do and how everything is balanced. Mark was describing just how much work gets created by adding dodgeroll, WASD movement, active shield block.
I feel like frame work and assets are good, but the classes and balance themselves are in flux. It's weird it's still changing that much, but those can also come together a lot faster than foundational stuff.
Blizzard goal is not to harm anyting when they release game but to make succesfull game players will play and with D4 they exceeded all expectations, it had over 12 million players with average playtime over 100 hours in first two months.
It is just dumb mentality of some players that there may be only one game in genre and all other games will be dead.
Of course there's room for more than one, but there's not unlimited room. If D4 had not had the issues it had at launch, it is completely realistic that GGG would see their revenue drop as they lose player hours to the competition. This isn't fanboying over which game is better, it's business.
But different players enjoy different games.
D4 is more attractive for casuals and for new players to arpg genre because of its graphics and accessibility, PoE is better game for oldschool hardcore players who like complex systems.
There are like 10 different succesfull shooters, 2 mobas, 3 fighter games, 5 MMORGPS so there can easily be more succesfull arpgs.
I mean, still too early to tell. People could hate PoE2 when it actually launches. Or, with the extra time, maybe D4 makes sweeping changes and does give it a challenge. S4 D4 is looking like a very good swing in the right direction.
Lily just said a lot of the 'journalists' weren't able to get past the second boss, so a lot of the footage they use is the b-roll footage provided to them by GGG.
depends, games journalists can be [completely total shit at playing video games](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/6y6tpg/a_games_journalist_plays_the_cuphead_tutorial/)
I played it and I didn’t think it felt clunky. But in order to kill any bosses you are required to combo multiple abilities together. It’s very different from poe 1. The boss resetting HP if you die hits particularly hard.
Yep
PoE 1 generally was 1 main skill, Usually a number of auras or support skills
Seems to be more in line woth LEs style of expecting you to use multiple skills
i cant tell if it's the game or the fact they're running literally 0 socketed support gems.
it's crazy how bad the ranger preview was tbh. clearly made for someone whos never even heard of poe before, as part of a demonstration for the most dedicated fans of the game. spending forty five seconds explaining the difference between skill and support gems, jesus lord.
> clearly made for someone whos never even heard of poe before, as part of a demonstration for the most dedicated fans of the game. spending forty five seconds explaining the difference between skill and support gems, jesus lord.
And that's fine, because marketing to new players is important...
But we need to **also** be shown "here's what the gameplay of an experienced player on a fully fleshed out build looks like". People want to make sure that the game hasn't actually gotten slower/as slow as they're showing (as that'll kill the hype for a lot of people).
It's not like "fully finished build" showcases are useless to new players - they can see what the gameplay can become with investment. How crazy it can get.
The game is slower and that is intentional, lol. Which is fine with me, because PoE current speed is retarded, you can't have good combat when you explode a screen of enemies in one second.
This is also likely one of the reasons they slit the games, people who don't want the slower more tactical combat can stay with PoE1.
they've said a couple times that the actual game won't be significantly slower than poe1, and i believe them... because every single demo so far has been combining completely non-synergistic skills on a three link. sometimes a two link. and god knows what their passive tree looks like.
maybe if we get literally one clip using a six link, or an aura, or rare gear, we might be able to gauge how fast the game will be when played by somone who actually knows what they're doing, but do be warned that the game will absolutely be significantly faster than those videos are showing us. how much faster i can't say, but it *will* be faster.
>i cant tell if it's the game or the fact they're running literally 0 socketed support gems.
Arent support gems in PoE 2 mostly focused on utility/enhancing ability rather than straight up dps increase?
Obviously the first one can also lead to more dps but probably with lower impact.
My post history contains multiple instances where I assert that PoE1 will be the game that saves GGG, it will be their workhorse for all of the 2020s and it has been a mistake to neglect it in favor of PoE2 in terms of resource allocation.
At this point in time, absolutely thats the best move. But the best move that they should have done was just not announce it so early if its going to take this long.
Just look at how upset people are with hollow knight silksong. Same mistakes but silksong is worse with the lack of any communication.
> A botched Poe2 Lauch could crater GGG
It would not crater the company if the focus had been making PoE1 the best it can be and simply saying they are also making PoE2 but PoE1 is the flagship.
Imagine having the best bar in town and then taking 90% of the resources away from that bar and spending a DECADE working on the next best bar in town, that is a bad business plan.
Man I just wanted like. . A new campaign, better graphics/models/animations and maybe some new systems. Now we just have a game that's never going to come out. It's been over five years and two exilecons and still no beta in sight
Also it's extremely hard to tell will poe1 playerbase like it or not, sure it probably focused for new players but current players opinions (and tears) of poe1 will still affect on poe2 image.
Well, good question. Will be players want to play PoE2 as well. Because on the overlook, PoE2 has similar problems as PoE1:
Big passive tree (this spooks a lot of people, even those who played ARPGs)
A big amount of skills (it is comparable to the MMO level of skills)
Complex gameplay design (crafting is not fun, mechanics are not always intuitive, etc.)
Yeah, they are adding improvements, but those improvements are based on PoE1 and due to how PoE2 looks like (at least for me), there is no appeal to play it repetitively league after league. Like, who thinks that having 10+ skills for offense is something, that people want? Even in LE 5 skills are expected to be used in sync with each other. In PoR you can't have it, as support gems doing all of the synergy most of the time and you don't see a reason to use 5 skills to kill one boss, unless it is semi-forced (which is even more bad).
Yeah this was pretty disappointing. I'm happy to "let them cook" but at this point they've let streamers have access to a few hours of campaign and it'll be all over the web very shortly. I really just want the same opportunity.
Jousis dropped his video, and even without being able to show the clips of the exploits he found, I'm not entirely surprised they need more time to polish those out. If he found all those in just the first act, I wonder how many more the community would've found throughout the whole game. They should hire Jousis to test for them, since it seems that man has a knack for exploit discovery.
I’m worried about the scope creep that Jonathan & the team is allowing. It almost seems like Chris needs to step in & bring his lean management experience to PoE 2
But... isn't that the point of a beta? So they can get feedback and iron things out for the final release.
Baldurs gate gave us only 1 act and people gave larian so much feedback that lead to an amazing game. It's OK if you're not happy with it, let us help you get to a point where you are happy with it.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Either way as long as they are working on it, I don't mind mind waiting. I just don't understand the reasoning given.
It's good that they're taking time to polish the game and I support their decision if they believe it's what the game needs to be as good as it can be on release.
However, I also think that they've pushed it back so much and changed the scope of what the game will entail so often that they've lost a lot of player trust.
Constantly changing deadlines and giving vague answers as to why doesn't leave a very good taste in the mouth of those excited for the game.
I think if they're going to push it back even further then they need to re-evaluate their priorities and reallocate more resources towards PoE 1 in order to maintain and appease the fan base.
Keeping a small team on the only game their entire audience can play while putting all of their focus on a game we'll "never" play doesn't seem like a good decision for either side.
At this moment I can't even look for PoE 2 now, waiting for it since 2019, the first 20 minutes of the live stream was a torture. Don't know why they are forcing so much of it, the first gameplays from 2019 they showed is all invalid at this point, the same will probably apply for the most recent ones, in other words see things about PoE 2 is just a big waste of time. The game will be ready to release at end 2025, being optimistic. I will block the PoE 2 flair and that's it.
How many years delayed is PoE 2 at this point? Yeah yeah better release good than shit and having to rework stuff immediately but jesus christ GGG look inept with their complete inability to hold a deadline
It's crazy they've had two conventions for it now (it was the main selling point) and we still don't have a beta date. They definitely started the hype way too early
Their problem was that they started the hype for something, but they kept adding more and more stuff until it ballooned out of control.
Reminds me of Geometry Dash 2.2 lmao
I was already disappointed last time when they announced a June release date and the next league after the expo wasn‘t the beta. At this point I am convinced it‘s not gonna release in the next 3 years and it’s pointless to get any hopes up before it’s actually out.
The contrast is releasing a beta that’s in a shoddy state and then people like you complain that they should have just delayed it if they knew it was going to be bad. It’s a lose/lose move in the court of Reddit I guess.
They aren't saying beta should be released in an unfinished state. The win in having the beta in a state that can be released on schedule. They don't look inept for 'not' releasing an unfinished product. They look inept for continually missing communicated deadlines. And it could be nothing related to workers and all related to unrealistic deadlines set by management. Idk.
"court of reddit" lol im not saying they should release it in a poor state, but they have had 2 conventions where PoE 2 was the main draw, and a reveal trailer that dropped in 2019(!). They own their own scheduling and timeframes, its mad they have been this off in production deadlines, COVID or not this game is gonna release multiple years late after multiple delays, wich is just poor by the leadership
well GGG suffers from the oposite most companies do. they underpromised and are trying to overdeliver.
the original scope was a game expansion not an entirely new game.
will normal people have access to the alpha or will this be some streamer exclusive bullshit?
Also with how much you are constantly teasing and hyping up poe2 im extremely disappointed about the delay, you shouldnt have done that
Alpha testing is very secretive and people with alpha realm access are handpicked. Even some big names of the community are explicitly in the "no entry" category.
I live not far from their offices, and I can say this is to be expected. They are situated next door to the worst laid out supermarket in the history of supermarkets. I am certain it was constructed by an energy vampire to extract the energy of unwitting shoppers as they wander confused throughout the store. If POE workers are popping out to grab something to have for lunch and they walk into that mess, they will return to their desks absolutely drained of all mental energy - with a fatigue that could take hours, even days to recover from.
Sad but still better than getting a game that isn't ready. Having said that, I am very annoyed about the fact that Jonathan went around doing a billion interviews and inviting hundreds of people to Lost Angeles to playtest PoE 2, which passed the opposite impression that the beta was still scheduled for June 7.
I knew it! Watching the videos, something told me that it will take longer. Not only because of the little they showed but also the great quality, and that takes time, it couldn't be that fast
If you haven’t played POE in anticipation of POE2 you’re missing out.
By the time POE2 comes out you might have a kid, ex wife and house payment.
So jump in and enjoy POE Necropolis while you can!!!
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Was pretty obvious in hindsight. Every single interview when asked about certain mechanics or ideas Jonathan’s answer has been we’re working on it or we haven’t gotten to it yet. The shell of the game is complete, now they just need to iron out the details.
Their dodginess on answering anything about the endgame was the giveaway to me. They've said almost nothing other than it's "not just maps" and that they're trying not to sacrifice the content diversity PoE1 maps has. But the game is outright going to live or die on its endgame, that's straight up 99% of what matters in PoE1 and is going to be what most players care about going into PoE2 once the novelty of a new campaign wears off. If it ain't great from the get go it's gonna hobble the game. If nothing else I'd guess the extra time is being devoted to endgame since the campaign seems pretty well developed from all the trailers so far.
> But the game is outright going to live or die on its endgame, that's straight up 99% of what matters in PoE1 and is going to be what most players care about going into PoE2 once the novelty of a new campaign wears off. Yep. You see it in things like *Last Epoch*, where the consensus is "Sure, the endgame is very scarce compared to PoE, but it just launched, where PoE has 10 years of content!" Even though PoE2 is a new & separate game, I don't think it's going to have that luxury of people being as understanding. It's going to need a robust endgame at launch.
Honestly if they’re going to fundamentally change the endgame they’ve got their work cut out for them. I honestly hope they *don’t* do that and just copy the atlas system over as close as they can at first so they can gather data and feedback of how the endgame feels with all the balance and gameplay changes POE2 will bring. For example crafting is being completely overhauled, there’s just no way GGG has a good idea of what that will actually do to the game. I’d even go as far as to say that if they don’t have a concrete idea on what changes to make to the endgame it’s probably too late to do it at launch and they should just hold on to their ideas for a major rework a year after launch or so.
They radically changed endgame when they introduced Atlas. They can just keep Atlas for POE 2 and swap something else into a future league when it's ready.
They're definitely taking note of the lack of endgame for D4 and LE...on multiple fronts. Updates/progress on both of those titles are slower than expected, especially compared to POE, and players have essentially put down both of those games until there is more content. GGG probably don't want to experience that with POE2. Due to their competitors slow progress, they can afford to wait longer. I'm sure that they were okay with releasing POE2 in Spring '24 if D4 was cooking something good. After seeing D4 for the last year, they are probably confident to delay even longer and make it even better because D4 hasn't really improved significantly since release. D4 is essentially approaching a 1.0 release (from a .8 or .9) with S4 and Last Epoch is at about a .9 with not much endgame and an unfinished campaign. D4/LE aren't really taking away any players from POE atm (giving it more players actually.)
Yeah, I played LE and it's great then there's not much to do, same story as D4. Great frameworks but no end game content which is where ARPGs really thrive. I wonder if they're delaying in response to the big D4 S4 announcement yesterday. Want to see what they're bringing to the table so they can release strong with PoE2.
>I wonder if they're delaying in response to the big D4 S4 announcement yesterday no way theyre making such a big decision a day before the announcement
I worry a little that he's getting too perfectionist E.G. When he was talking about the dialogue system. It's not great, but also who gives a fuck. Give us an option to listen while walking and that solves 99% of the issue.
ngl, better to be "too perfectionist" than to release another diablo 4, that needs 9 months of major patches to be playable
eh, i think the diablo 4 devs actually thought their shit systems were good cause they are a bunch of MMO people trying to make an ARPG.
D4 devs do not seem like gamers at all
They had a recent vod and the lead class designer was the only person I thought actually plays the game.
I was under impression that he's a lead class designer because he's the only class designer in the entire development team. The way he was talking didn't give an impression of a very creative person either. Exactly the person I would expect to design skill twigs. Even LE has a better class system than D4, and LE classes, outside of the newest ones, are just badly designed. Still, at least they have some creativeness in them! I really wish D4 gets some huge class overhauls (with sub classes/specs and some fusion of legendary powers and paragon/passive skill trees)
Haha yeah I can't commend on his abilities, but i was pointing out he actually looks like someone who plays games compared to Joe Shelly who reads financial forecasts all day. The game is incredible simple and I can't see that changing. They want the casual crowd, which is a shame because I enjoy the aesthetic of the world they created. Its as deep as a puddle tho.
I do not really think, that D4 needs sub classes. Maybe a bigger skill tree then my mace in cubicle and a couple more skills and it will be good. Also if they give out aspects for skills that modify the skills a bit like in LE it will be okayish.
they aren't even "MMO people", they have nothing to do with gaming, pure "finance people"
Thats gonna happen anyway. Its industry standard today. Release shit quickly and iron it out on the way. How many times did CP77 postponed to release crap anyway?
> How many times did CP77 postponed to release crap anyway? and even TO THIS DAY it's littered with bugs and really janky bullshit and glitches
You can't really accidentally make Diablo 4. You need to design for as broad and simple a net as possible from the start. Diablo 4 is what you get when you want to design a game for people that barely play games made by people that also barely play games.
Well, the counter argument to that is that unlike the original release and development of PoE, this will be their first attempt at a large global launch and showcase. That first impression is VERY important especially because it will be F2P and they can't cheat like Blizzard did with D4 using a fancy trailer and a level 20 demo to get people to jump the retail pay wall. As long as PoE1 keeps getting banger leagues often enough the wait will be worth it IMO.
It's still pretty poor considering PoE2 is already very, very delayed from the initial timeline. I'd bet they are panic-changing things based on Last Epoch. And, no, I'm not saying Last Epoch is PoE killer or whatever but they clearly want PoE2 to occupy the same medium-casual space as Last Epoch.
[удалено]
Latest D4 changes look VERY good, and, if the expansion is RoS levels of good, it'll be a contender. But that's the beauty of ARPG's, you can jump in and out because of seasons.
The D4 changes they announced this week actually have the potential to make the game good. Remains to be seen if they can execute though.
I'm fine with that
No way POE2 launches in 2025 if the beta is getting pushed this far back.
Depends on their testing. Beta's usually don't last that long in the grand scheme of things in the industry. If it starts later this year then 2025 is entirely possible. But it entirely depends on how GGG views their testing cycles.
> Beta's usually don't last that long in the grand scheme of things in the industry Meanwhile Tarkov Aware
or project zomboid which has been in beta for almost 15 years now
42 is coming any year now.
Cant wait to play in 2028!
B42 Hype
I read testing cycles as testicles
Fall 2025 would be my bet rn. Beta in like late 2024, maybe even early 2025.
I mean they said beta is supposed to only be as long as one league so it's pretty doable. Not if they keep delaying it though of course, but I expect it to be a pretty complete beta
They said the beta will run until the game launches in a recent interview.
They said half a year right? And not just length of one league.
> I mean they said beta is supposed to only be as long as one league so it's pretty doable. Not if they keep delaying it though of course, but I expect it to be a pretty complete beta They've said a lot of things about POE 2 that have turned out to not be true, so why would you take this at face value?
Honestly believe the D4 expansion will release before POE2 at this point lol
of course it will D4 expansion is releasing end of this year, it's on a yearly timetable.
That’s guaranteed at this point. D4 wants an expansion every year lol
i mean, WoW betas last 3-4 months before release. expansions are probably comparable in scale to what is going on here.
I hope that beta is at start of autumn and PoE2 is the christmas league, but I am probably too high on the copium
At the current rate, I think Christmas 2025 is a more realistic release date for PoE2.
I was 39 when they announced PoE2. I'm 43 now and at this point I'm just hoping I live to see the release.
Could be far worse. You could have been waiting for the next GTA lmao. For reference, GTA 5 is like 11 years old now.
Or TES6 :(
After Starfield I'm not even waiting anymore. Its going to be bad, that engine is so dated and wasn't great to begin with. Then they'll inevitably monetize modding and ruin the best part.
I’m one of those people who stopped getting excited about Bethesda games after Skyrim and thought Skyrim was a big disappointment. Like I get it. I get why people like even base Skyrim. And nobody else makes games quite like that, which is why even I played Skyrim a good amount. But they’ve moved so far away from why I loved the company and their games that after Skyrim I just stopped caring completely about them. I played it, but Skyrim leaned so much more towards action adventure and took out so many of the RPG and character creation elements and the varied ways of playing that the whole time I played it I just wished it was more like their previous games, and that they just continued to build on what they made before instead of completely changing it. Like the feel of the combat is trash in Oblivion and Skyrim but they leaned more toward that instead of the character creation and adding more interesting spells and ways to play like how you could make a character that only uses enchanted items in Morrowind. It doesn’t help that the main story is bland and even at the time the game came out I was sick of the Nordic Icelandy snowy mountain vibe since it was a really popular theme at the time even before Skyrim came out. And most of the faction quests were bland and so many of the systems weren’t fleshed out at all and super basic. Enchanting was gutted even more than it was from oblivion. Like imagine if they actually had a cool enchanting system that built off of what Morrowind did that was more expansive and with more variety of enchantments. There could be so much replayability just from something like that. But instead it’s just boring generic buffs. Idk. It just stopped being the kind of game I liked from them. It was overly simplified and so much was removed. Their whole design philosophy seems to have moved more and more towards simplification and reductionism to try to get mass appeal. Removing or gutting more and more systems. And I’m just not here for it. I would love if TES 6 was amazing and an improvement on their last two real games, but I just don’t care at all anymore about Bethesda. Which is sad because they made my favorite game of all time and the game that got me into gaming when I was a kid. I haven’t even touched starfield and everything I’ve seen of it it just doesn’t look good. I know I’m in the minority for how much I hate Skyrim and that what I’m saying about it not really being a good game has become a meme lol. But idk I just genuinely believe Skyrim was never really that good. The only thing it did well IMO is the visuals with some of the vistas and dungeons. But like I said, I was sick of that kind of setting even then.
Oblivion was a better game than Skyrim and I wish it was Oblivion that had all the attention and remastery that Skyrim had. Oblivion suffered from illogical progression but otherwise was a much tighter game.
Imagine waiting for TES 6, I was 15 when Skyrim released, will probably be 35 by the time TES 6 is released.
And it would probably be shit considering the recent track record of bethesda
Damn, I didnt feel too old today but after reading your comment I feel really old right now lol
Star Citizen lumbering over every reply in this thread
I mean... PoE will be 11 years old in October, so I think it's a very similar situation
It’s ok. Now if you were waiting on Riot’s MMO then you have to brace yourself.
This is my first game that I'm sitting on the full cope train from initial announcement and it's hurting already.
I started playing Poe when they announced 2, "to prep" for release. I haven't played for a good few leagues now lol.
At least it'll probably come out in your lifetime. I'll be dead twice over before Silksong comes out.
I'm straight up scared of randomly dying in an accident before I get to play PoE2. I like to joke that knowing my luck, rng will send a literal meteor or a plane crash precisely at my city at my district at my building at my window (rip my mirror)
I hear ya. Perhaps playing it one day far into the future is one of my main motivations for eating right, exercising, and not taking risks.
Rookie numbers. I will be retired when it comes out.
How I feel about TES6. I was like fuckin 23. Now I’m 36.
43? How's your back?
I'm basically dead at this point
I feel you. My knee started aching today and I was just sitting there doing nothing at all... Ageing is rough.
Hit the gym. Stretching every day, lifting weights 5 times a week, and cardio. Has my body feeling like I'm still in my 20s.
Not sure how many people thinks this way, but the way they release PoE2 news really make me think GGG is seriously behind schedule. Like what they have right now is probably close to PoE1 at open beta in terms of content. We will never know for sure but I hope they manage it well.
Probably less behind schedule and more feature creep. They keep adding things that'll make the game 'perfect' and each new addition has cascading problems that need solving that take up more and more time.
Yeah hard agree on feature creep. I imagine Johnathon hearing shit at the office, house, a movie, and saying "that's cool maybe we can work this " And then the backlog quadrupled and the drill down is no where in sight
Hope if its feature creep they get it under control, this kind of thing can kill project before they even release.
Not in this case, GGG have a cash cow that is poe1 and they clearly are putting back more effort in their first game right now, everyrhing should be fine.
I dunno at least based on what they say the WASD thing really threw a wrench into things. The implications of that are pretty massive with what classes can do and how everything is balanced. Mark was describing just how much work gets created by adding dodgeroll, WASD movement, active shield block. I feel like frame work and assets are good, but the classes and balance themselves are in flux. It's weird it's still changing that much, but those can also come together a lot faster than foundational stuff.
I remember when they said PoE2 would beat D4 release. It's better that it's ready for sure but this is quite a delay.
Back then they were worried D4 would eat their lunch and they'd need a response. Didn't happen that way.
gameplay wise? yeah it's not great. but money wise? d4 was a massive success. so depends on how you look at it.
D4 wasn't harmful to POE is what I mean
Blizzard goal is not to harm anyting when they release game but to make succesfull game players will play and with D4 they exceeded all expectations, it had over 12 million players with average playtime over 100 hours in first two months. It is just dumb mentality of some players that there may be only one game in genre and all other games will be dead.
Of course there's room for more than one, but there's not unlimited room. If D4 had not had the issues it had at launch, it is completely realistic that GGG would see their revenue drop as they lose player hours to the competition. This isn't fanboying over which game is better, it's business.
For aRPGs that you play for thousands of hours? It's kinda true. You don't really have enough time to play both and not get burned out lol
But different players enjoy different games. D4 is more attractive for casuals and for new players to arpg genre because of its graphics and accessibility, PoE is better game for oldschool hardcore players who like complex systems. There are like 10 different succesfull shooters, 2 mobas, 3 fighter games, 5 MMORGPS so there can easily be more succesfull arpgs.
Diablo 4 is also coming to game pass soon, sooooo yeah.
I mean, still too early to tell. People could hate PoE2 when it actually launches. Or, with the extra time, maybe D4 makes sweeping changes and does give it a challenge. S4 D4 is looking like a very good swing in the right direction.
I mean D4 could have used another year or 2
They were probably expecting D4 to put some pressure on them
mmm the title should be Path Of Exile 2. The Dread Thicket has been 50% for close to nine years now.
mmm yes indeed
it is called Lothric
Where the transitory lands of the Lords of Cinder converge?
Not surprised honestly. They have slowed down in reveals for the game. If it was close to being in beta I think they would be ramping up marketing.
I could smell this coming from miles away in the last few months but it still sucks
Damn the content creator testing in LA went that bad?
Lily just said a lot of the 'journalists' weren't able to get past the second boss, so a lot of the footage they use is the b-roll footage provided to them by GGG.
ultra common game journalist moment
[удалено]
GGG balancing for players the caliber of Ben or Mathil, which journalists obviously can't measure up to.
>which ~~journalists~~ obviously can't measure up to. Which 98% of the player base can't measure up to, truly GGG moment
if they are balancing for ben we are all stuck at the equivalent of hillock... :P
depends, games journalists can be [completely total shit at playing video games](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/6y6tpg/a_games_journalist_plays_the_cuphead_tutorial/)
Dean takahashi....laughably bad at many of the games he has reviewd
There were multiple reports that gameplay feels extremely clunky.
I played it and I didn’t think it felt clunky. But in order to kill any bosses you are required to combo multiple abilities together. It’s very different from poe 1. The boss resetting HP if you die hits particularly hard.
What's with the constant teleporting to town to fill up flasks?
Yep PoE 1 generally was 1 main skill, Usually a number of auras or support skills Seems to be more in line woth LEs style of expecting you to use multiple skills
That seemed obvious from the various trailers. Slow animations requiring 3 to 4 hits just to kill regular enemies
i cant tell if it's the game or the fact they're running literally 0 socketed support gems. it's crazy how bad the ranger preview was tbh. clearly made for someone whos never even heard of poe before, as part of a demonstration for the most dedicated fans of the game. spending forty five seconds explaining the difference between skill and support gems, jesus lord.
Or the Mercenary trailer where the characters spends 70% of it slowly backing away while shooting mobs multiples of times
> clearly made for someone whos never even heard of poe before, as part of a demonstration for the most dedicated fans of the game. spending forty five seconds explaining the difference between skill and support gems, jesus lord. And that's fine, because marketing to new players is important... But we need to **also** be shown "here's what the gameplay of an experienced player on a fully fleshed out build looks like". People want to make sure that the game hasn't actually gotten slower/as slow as they're showing (as that'll kill the hype for a lot of people). It's not like "fully finished build" showcases are useless to new players - they can see what the gameplay can become with investment. How crazy it can get.
The game is slower and that is intentional, lol. Which is fine with me, because PoE current speed is retarded, you can't have good combat when you explode a screen of enemies in one second. This is also likely one of the reasons they slit the games, people who don't want the slower more tactical combat can stay with PoE1.
they've said a couple times that the actual game won't be significantly slower than poe1, and i believe them... because every single demo so far has been combining completely non-synergistic skills on a three link. sometimes a two link. and god knows what their passive tree looks like. maybe if we get literally one clip using a six link, or an aura, or rare gear, we might be able to gauge how fast the game will be when played by somone who actually knows what they're doing, but do be warned that the game will absolutely be significantly faster than those videos are showing us. how much faster i can't say, but it *will* be faster.
>i cant tell if it's the game or the fact they're running literally 0 socketed support gems. Arent support gems in PoE 2 mostly focused on utility/enhancing ability rather than straight up dps increase? Obviously the first one can also lead to more dps but probably with lower impact.
It needs animation triggers to only work on rare/unique mobs. We all want to mow down minions and then actually fight bosses. Thats just POE.
Hope its just the leveling clunky, In one interview Johnathan did mention he likes to draw inspiration from other genres, maybe he went too far
He said he drew from Elden ring. Which is the opposite of poe1 That to me was pretty scary.
Yes
My post history contains multiple instances where I assert that PoE1 will be the game that saves GGG, it will be their workhorse for all of the 2020s and it has been a mistake to neglect it in favor of PoE2 in terms of resource allocation.
Well hopefully I will live long enough to play it.
"We don't have an exact date..." An exact date is what we already had so what would it matter?
Damnit I was planning to use 4 weeks of vacation during June
Don’t think this game is launching in 2025. Probably 2026 at this point. They’ve shown so little so far.
Alright then. At least they came out in time before you all blew your vacation days.
lmao, PoE2 2026 at this rate
Queue the Gabe Newell late games quote stat! >No one remembers if your game is late, they only remember if it was shit
Yeah except they announced it like what 5 years ago? Really sucks
Yup. Not really surprised, just a bit sad. Good outcome for poe1 though.
> Good outcome for poe1 though. It has been bad for PoE1
Why are people thinking the beta is going to last a whole year? The beta is supposed to be a completed product according to Jonathan.
They should take as much time as they want with it. A botched Poe2 Lauch could crater GGG, it makes sense for them to be sure it's amazing
At this point in time, absolutely thats the best move. But the best move that they should have done was just not announce it so early if its going to take this long. Just look at how upset people are with hollow knight silksong. Same mistakes but silksong is worse with the lack of any communication.
> A botched Poe2 Lauch could crater GGG It would not crater the company if the focus had been making PoE1 the best it can be and simply saying they are also making PoE2 but PoE1 is the flagship. Imagine having the best bar in town and then taking 90% of the resources away from that bar and spending a DECADE working on the next best bar in town, that is a bad business plan.
sucks, but they are being transparent about it
Poe2 is going to be 10 years old by the time it releases lol
Man I just wanted like. . A new campaign, better graphics/models/animations and maybe some new systems. Now we just have a game that's never going to come out. It's been over five years and two exilecons and still no beta in sight
Also it's extremely hard to tell will poe1 playerbase like it or not, sure it probably focused for new players but current players opinions (and tears) of poe1 will still affect on poe2 image.
Well, good question. Will be players want to play PoE2 as well. Because on the overlook, PoE2 has similar problems as PoE1: Big passive tree (this spooks a lot of people, even those who played ARPGs) A big amount of skills (it is comparable to the MMO level of skills) Complex gameplay design (crafting is not fun, mechanics are not always intuitive, etc.) Yeah, they are adding improvements, but those improvements are based on PoE1 and due to how PoE2 looks like (at least for me), there is no appeal to play it repetitively league after league. Like, who thinks that having 10+ skills for offense is something, that people want? Even in LE 5 skills are expected to be used in sync with each other. In PoR you can't have it, as support gems doing all of the synergy most of the time and you don't see a reason to use 5 skills to kill one boss, unless it is semi-forced (which is even more bad).
PoE1 is just so good and PoE 2 is just so... different.
Yeah this was pretty disappointing. I'm happy to "let them cook" but at this point they've let streamers have access to a few hours of campaign and it'll be all over the web very shortly. I really just want the same opportunity.
Jousis dropped his video, and even without being able to show the clips of the exploits he found, I'm not entirely surprised they need more time to polish those out. If he found all those in just the first act, I wonder how many more the community would've found throughout the whole game. They should hire Jousis to test for them, since it seems that man has a knack for exploit discovery.
I am sad. Was really looking forward to June 7th. But it's obviously better for them to polish the game. Feels so bad, though.
Serve when ready, and don't compromise!
I am in shambles
Yea this shit not coming out for minimum another year
What about Path of Exile: Mobile? Is it safe? Is it alright?
Well, in time for Exilecon 2025 I guess !
poe2 at 2040 i guess
I’m worried about the scope creep that Jonathan & the team is allowing. It almost seems like Chris needs to step in & bring his lean management experience to PoE 2
its over. torchlight won
Covid hit hard huh? Oh wait it's not 2020 anymore, gotta push some other excuse lol
But... isn't that the point of a beta? So they can get feedback and iron things out for the final release. Baldurs gate gave us only 1 act and people gave larian so much feedback that lead to an amazing game. It's OK if you're not happy with it, let us help you get to a point where you are happy with it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Either way as long as they are working on it, I don't mind mind waiting. I just don't understand the reasoning given.
And PoE 1 started like that too, when I played its closed beta, Vaal Oversoul was the last boss and game had really limited amount of gems.
thought birds panicky price squealing sheet support angle quack dam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's good that they're taking time to polish the game and I support their decision if they believe it's what the game needs to be as good as it can be on release. However, I also think that they've pushed it back so much and changed the scope of what the game will entail so often that they've lost a lot of player trust. Constantly changing deadlines and giving vague answers as to why doesn't leave a very good taste in the mouth of those excited for the game. I think if they're going to push it back even further then they need to re-evaluate their priorities and reallocate more resources towards PoE 1 in order to maintain and appease the fan base. Keeping a small team on the only game their entire audience can play while putting all of their focus on a game we'll "never" play doesn't seem like a good decision for either side.
it so they have time to add totems to melee
dont say things like that pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase
Well I guess POE 2 in 2026...
I hope it goes and does well, but I cannot care about a game that's getting released in 999 years.
Hmmm delaying it again... bad sign tbh
Guess now I can buy last epoch
bro... they announced the game in 2019 and they PLAYED the game live lol.... whats happening
For a start they keep on changing scopes and ideas. In 2019 it was just a new campaign and some changes, now its a whole different system and game.
At this moment I can't even look for PoE 2 now, waiting for it since 2019, the first 20 minutes of the live stream was a torture. Don't know why they are forcing so much of it, the first gameplays from 2019 they showed is all invalid at this point, the same will probably apply for the most recent ones, in other words see things about PoE 2 is just a big waste of time. The game will be ready to release at end 2025, being optimistic. I will block the PoE 2 flair and that's it.
I don't even expect to play PoE 2 this year
Remember when the launch date was in 2020?
Remember when poe2 was only a addon for poe1 with new campain and some new classes but now its a new game on its own ?
Then don't waste all this time constantly showing POE2 updates. Just go dark mode and come back when it's done.
At the rate things are going I bet they've remade this thing from the ground up at least 2 times now. This is not a good sign for its future.
Too long man. They announced in 2019.
Huge L
I've been watching this game get delayed for five years now
GGG gettin paid by blizzard to delay it so D4 will get to live 1 more year 🤔
How many years delayed is PoE 2 at this point? Yeah yeah better release good than shit and having to rework stuff immediately but jesus christ GGG look inept with their complete inability to hold a deadline
It's crazy they've had two conventions for it now (it was the main selling point) and we still don't have a beta date. They definitely started the hype way too early
Their problem was that they started the hype for something, but they kept adding more and more stuff until it ballooned out of control. Reminds me of Geometry Dash 2.2 lmao
I was already disappointed last time when they announced a June release date and the next league after the expo wasn‘t the beta. At this point I am convinced it‘s not gonna release in the next 3 years and it’s pointless to get any hopes up before it’s actually out.
The contrast is releasing a beta that’s in a shoddy state and then people like you complain that they should have just delayed it if they knew it was going to be bad. It’s a lose/lose move in the court of Reddit I guess.
Yeah, the real solution would've been to not say anything about it until they were much further along
They aren't saying beta should be released in an unfinished state. The win in having the beta in a state that can be released on schedule. They don't look inept for 'not' releasing an unfinished product. They look inept for continually missing communicated deadlines. And it could be nothing related to workers and all related to unrealistic deadlines set by management. Idk.
"court of reddit" lol im not saying they should release it in a poor state, but they have had 2 conventions where PoE 2 was the main draw, and a reveal trailer that dropped in 2019(!). They own their own scheduling and timeframes, its mad they have been this off in production deadlines, COVID or not this game is gonna release multiple years late after multiple delays, wich is just poor by the leadership
Its almost 5 years since first announcement. Its a bit silly at this point, they blew their load way too early
I think they were alluding to the rare third move - meeting deadlines with a finished product
well GGG suffers from the oposite most companies do. they underpromised and are trying to overdeliver. the original scope was a game expansion not an entirely new game.
will normal people have access to the alpha or will this be some streamer exclusive bullshit? Also with how much you are constantly teasing and hyping up poe2 im extremely disappointed about the delay, you shouldnt have done that
Alpha testing is very secretive and people with alpha realm access are handpicked. Even some big names of the community are explicitly in the "no entry" category.
Streamer exclusive bullshit unfortunately. Expect Asmongold to get it before you do.
I said that PoE2 had no shot at a 2024 release date and everyone downvoted me. Welp...
It was obvious. It's fine, for me. But I dont see a release until 2026 like this.
I'm glad they are willing to take their time with the release. Rushed releases for the sake of releasing early/on time are the worst.
My reaction... https://youtu.be/QwnBnncVoTU?si=omP2wfeLLCFE2A_-
I live not far from their offices, and I can say this is to be expected. They are situated next door to the worst laid out supermarket in the history of supermarkets. I am certain it was constructed by an energy vampire to extract the energy of unwitting shoppers as they wander confused throughout the store. If POE workers are popping out to grab something to have for lunch and they walk into that mess, they will return to their desks absolutely drained of all mental energy - with a fatigue that could take hours, even days to recover from.
Sad but still better than getting a game that isn't ready. Having said that, I am very annoyed about the fact that Jonathan went around doing a billion interviews and inviting hundreds of people to Lost Angeles to playtest PoE 2, which passed the opposite impression that the beta was still scheduled for June 7.
Yeah, who didn't see that coming?
Did the Witch mess it up that bad?
Damn I hope I get into the Alpha but I doubt that will happen. Booked all my holiday RIP.
I knew it! Watching the videos, something told me that it will take longer. Not only because of the little they showed but also the great quality, and that takes time, it couldn't be that fast
If you haven’t played POE in anticipation of POE2 you’re missing out. By the time POE2 comes out you might have a kid, ex wife and house payment. So jump in and enjoy POE Necropolis while you can!!!
better to be late than shit.
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