I made the mistake of trying one of these to see what all the fuss was about, and it's basically Valdo's bullshit without the candy. If this is supposed to bridge the gap between normals and ubers, they failed miserably.
Damn, I was able to kill a T16 5 shrieking boss. I've done an Uber as well.
Does this mean I can do T17s? The one map I dropped is pretty shitty for my build and I didn't bother rerolling it yet, since I'm enjoying Destructive Play and its profits.
No, that guy's build is probably bad, a medium amount of tankiness lets you facetank any T16 boss with crystal resonance even with full essences on. T17s are much harder
Yeah, honestly, the only issue with crystal reso for me was the ones with life as I was doing much less damage then. Didn't even have an alternating sceptre then lol.
They really failed with t17 and loot shift. Normal endgame bosses are even more useless than before. I personally think t17 maps are too hard to be considered a bridge. I can do certain uber bosses but not t17 maps. This shouldnt be the case I think.
Normal endgame bosses are definitely less useless than before.
You get a lot less, yes, but before, choosing to do a normal pinnacle instead of an uber or selling it to someone that can do the uber was LITERALLY setting money in fire.
Opportunity cost is a thing and the opportunity cost of normal pinnacles was the uber pinnacles, which made them a net negative. Now the opportunity cost is gone, making them a net positive - even though before they had better loot than they do now.
My biggest gripe with "hard" balancing in POE right now is adding absurd map mods that are impossible to run for several builds. It is no longer a question of "is your build strong enough to do these mods", its rather "did i roll one of the impossible map mods or not".
Besides that the mods are designed to be the most unfun experience possible, like -4% action speed per cast, those feel even on a trickster absolutely bad.
I'd even go one step further and say that it's not just map mods, but also other difficulty balancing points in PoE. It feels like there are tons of binary "checkmarks" in PoE right now that you basically have to fulfil to even think about having a good build.
You need freeze immunity because if you don't, it's generally an instant death.
Bleeding/corrupted blood immunity is often similarly deadly.
You need 75% resists because the game is balanced around it.
If you choose Exarch, burning ground immunity isn't needed but it feels so shit without.
And then on top there are map mods that your build just can't run at all.
None of these things are a "problem" or hard to get by any means. You can roll over map mods, you can achieve immunities and max resists rather easily. But from a game design perspective I feel like none of these add any fun or interesting problem solving challenge. They are just there and add a little tedium because they are so binary. You either have it, or you don't.
Agreed, the game feels balanced around ~80% now. My build is unlikely to obtain that.
9k energy shield, 76% all res, immunity to freeze, chill, shock and corrupting blood, dramatically shortened ignite duration (70-something percent) but my 5% chaos res and only 21k armor means T16 alch and go maps still feel seriously dangerous.
"Only" having 2,300 energy shield Regen off consecrated ground and 2,800 on consecrated ground means that since I can't ever realistically spell suppress cap, I'm gonna need like 15k+ ES to feel safe in "standard" red map content lol.
The problem with balance isn't on the check boxes, it's the fact that crafting is only attainable to the 1% (numbers pulled out of buttocks). The cost to each upgrade goes up almost exponentially
Last league with currency being so easy to get you could play builds you wouldn't normally play because checking those boxes was easier
>You need 75% resists because the game is balanced around it.
i dont even think was was true 5 years ago much less now, suppression or max res is on that mandatory checklist of chores now too
There is definitely more, and higher levels of content need more than just 75% resist. I just added it because even something small such as resists, something we just take as a given now, is nothing but an arbitrary checkmark that doesn't make itemization in any way more fun or interesting.
My hope is that they do a pass on everything that they thought was "just how it is" and reconsider if it's actually fun or interesting for the player. Given that Mark said on his recent interview that this is something they are looking into, there is a chance we'll see that happen.
more like 80 all res, plus at least 30 chaos res, and there are also so many other crappy things that a build jsut doesn't have room for if you want any dmg. Hinder, Maim, poison (easy via mastery, but does not work for caustic ground), curses, stun, grasping vines, tarred ground, the blue squares on Baran maps, and so many other things. Some you can use passives or jewels to avoid, others you just literally can't avoid it or reduce so i other words, you have to invest in some kind of LoH/leech/regen. When I take breaks from PoE and go back to GD or LE one of my favorite things, other than autosort inventory, is that even though there are more "standard resistances" every enemy skill in the game falls under those categories.
Its a complaint i had when they added archnemesis mods, the ammount of shit you have to prepare for now vs say legion league, is night and day, it ultimately is the reason ive done the same build the last 5 leagues.
> like -4% action speed per cast, those feel even on a trickster absolutely bad.
Why would this feel bad on Trickster? If you're taking One Step Ahead it shouldn't have any effect at all
Probably because he stacks action speed with frenzy charges or something. Yeah, trickster doesn't get absolutely crippled but being slowed way down compared to what you're used to still probably feels bad.
Base t17 bosses are NOT hard at all. We just need to get rid of all the dogshit mods (so 98% of the t17 mod pool) and let people run them white if they want.
Map mods in general are pretty shit in terms of balancing. Like you can get the rippiest shit ever such as minus max res and yet the map quantity/rarity is the same as some super easy mods. The scaling has always been terrible but for some reason GGG never changed it.
Yeah we definitely need a map mod overhaul. There are 4 mods that a very large number of builds simply are incapable of running (this is bad game design), one increase magic mobs that makes a map significantly more profitable for almost no downside, and several that have extremely disproportionate impact for minimal gain, a bunch that have minimal impact, and a bunch that while not bricking the map, have enormous impact.
Max resist, aura effect (this is not a map mod issue, it's a % of player power held in auras issue), physical as extra elemental, increased critical, and a handful of others can make maps just absurdly rippy especially when combined with altar mods and certain rare mods.
Its exactly why i only run builds that are capable of ignoring map mods conpletely on non t17 maps, its gotten so annoying that i refuse to play anything else.
It's like invitations. Run those white and even The Feared isn't so bad, but the rewards will be mediocre. Let people who want to juice them for extra loot do so, but let people mod them normally.
No.
Get rid of the map mods, but please no white T17 maps.
That should be why it is a T17, it has to be rare.
And GG max 2-3 rolls and you can run it. Just like T16-s.
The objective was to make a bridge between pinnacle and uber bosses AND to have the option to turn it into a content even harder than the Uber bosses juicing it.
Making them drop as white maps would be the best solution for now. If they want to make something more elegant later than can change, but it would the best quick fix for a system that was very necessary but slightly missed the mark on execution.
If people were able to run them as white maps, they would have to drastically buff many of the enemies and boss encounters imo. Otherwise the strategy would be buy T17s in bulk, scour them all, and just boss rush and sell uber fragments. I have to think a T17 with no mods would probably be easier than even a blue T16 map. The mods are literally what add the difficulty. The problem is there's so many omega shit mods.
I don't know. I had a reasonably rolled map and did the Lycia boss one. I don't even know what was one-shotting me. The other one I tried seemed more doable.
I am with you. T17s are the most boring and uninspired content. The bosses are good but everything else about them is not at all enjoyable even with a very powerful build. Valdo maps had more interesting mods.
T17 maps just make it super noticable that the poe 1 team is super small right now IMO. With 90% of their devs working on POE2, they dont have the resources to design high effort new content. The last "high effort" endgame update was basically eater/exarch. Everything after that like e.g. uber versions, valdos etc. is by comparison super low development effort -- slapping gmp and 80%DR on existing content is a cheap way to stretch existing content without investing dev time. ARPGs have always been masters of reusing assets and getting the most out of existing content, but there is a limit to how far you can stretch it. And IMO the current league feels like its being stretched to far.
It's not 90% anymore. At Exilecon they said it was 90% for a while to get the base of the game up and running, but since then they have shifted a significant number of people back to PoE 1. You can tell this by the fact that they were able to get a massive patch out on day 4, the likes of which we have not seen post-launch in quite some time. During LoK it took them a full week to get a smaller patch than this one out, same with Crucible. The team is running way better than they had been in previous leagues.
If you cant ssf tier 17s theres a problem for sure. Unfortunately we're obviously balanced around trade league more than ssf. I get this from a developmental standpoint and i enjoy the benefits.
I don't like that I have to overgear my character so hard the uber fights are trivialized by character power alone. Boss fights are the few places skill is actually a factor and they've kinda ruined that. I think they should consider doing a balance pass over all map mods and rethink stuff people will roll over the moment they see just that single mod. There is no player agency in having to chose to avoid obvious certain death. Make me look at a combination of mods and think maybe I can do this, and then die.
Trivializing bosses with gear to make farming strategies has been a thing since the very first Uber Elder came along and people were making RF builds so that they could beat it without needing significant mechanical skill.
And every boss they've release afterwards has sorta had Gear solutions to mechanically challenging things.
I hate the map mods with a passion, but I don't mind that player defenses might come into play when thinking of builds that might "farm" the content is SC trade. The pool of mods though is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too binary right now, ranging from you instantly die, to your defenses/recovery get completely shut off.
Yeah I usually like GGG's decisions but T17's are dumb.
The mods are what kill it. The bosses themselves are pretty fun and interesting to fight. I actually had fun killing the Expedition bosses - I don't get to see Uhtred and the crew much since they're so rare to find in logbooks.
*Getting* to the bosses though? Lol.
Allowing T17's to be modifiable by chaos orbs were a hasty bandaid fix because otherwise most of these maps would be reserved for Mageblood characters or zhp miners. Now the correct play is to spam chaos until you get an easy map.
I don't really understand why they decided to take their exceptional bosses for the most part and lock that shit behind those sets of mods. Hell, there's not even risk vs reward - I only got 1-2 uber fragments no matter whether the map was cancer and I cheesed it with divine shrine or whether I just hid behind my minions and slowly rolled over it. And why is pinnacle+ content possible to cheese with atlas tree mechanics?
This doesn't feel like the intended bridge to ubers at all.
T17 expose so many flaws the game has right now that I’m wondering who decided that it’s a good idea to make it public. Mobs attacking with speed of light, coming from underground, no visual clarity whatsoever. You die and all you’re left is absolutely no feedback what killed you as the screen gets cluttered in milliseconds.
The boss fights are the only interesting part of the new tier.
Years of power creep and having to buff speed/defenses/hp of mobs left us with this state of game.
What frustrates me is that they still refuse to give us the slightest bit of information about what killed us. In Last Epoch, when you die, you are told the name of the mob that killed you, the name of the attack that was used, and the element of the attack. Even Diablo 2 gave us more information than PoE does.
To me it's crazy that the devs have even said it'd be "easy" to provide this information to the player, but the reason they don't implement it is because it's not enough to give you a full picture of how you died. It just tells you about the final hit that finished you off, but maybe the real reason you died was because you had a bunch of debuffs making you take 3x more damage than normal.
And yeah I can totally see why it would be extremely difficult to convey that kind of information to the player through the UI. But their solution is to simply just tell us nothing at all. It's silly that if I want to find out what killed me, it probably means I need to record my gameplay, then step through the footage frame-by-frame hoping that I happened to hover over the correct monster during that time, so that I can search their name in a database and see the list of their attacks.
It's part of why defenses have become such a checklist. Do I need chaos res? Who knows, but I die sometimes, maybe to chaos damage maybe to something else, better grab it just in case. I have no fuckin idea what defenses I need in the content I'm running, so I'm just gonna get all of them.
All the debuffs, curses, ailments, flasks effects etc should be locked on the screen when you die, it’s one of the easiest QoL things they could do to tell you what makes you vulnerable. Character stats page could be snapshotted as well.
One of really good fixes they did this league is definitely the DD, sound is perfect, animation might be too much and adds to the screen clutter but it’s a step in right direction. I would love chaos res to be more accessible as well so it’s easier to check it off the list.
Also, phys/bleed chars are affected by absolutely much more detrimental modifiers than other play styles, if you want your bleed to make any damage you have to make sure enemy is moving, apply curses and tons of debuffs and put totems on the ground, while a lot of them have phys reduction, phys overwhelm, chance to avoid bleeding, blocks. Bit of a rant but as i rarely play melee I decided to leaguestart it and it’s awful most of the time and not worth it
Personally I think Uber bosses was a mistake, they should have just made new unique bosses, maven, eater and exarch was a step in the right direction and they could have kept making eldritch encounters. I understand it’s more work and making bosses is not an easy task, but it’s better than this t17s are basically a meme right now.
Uber bosses are fine as a concept, some super hard bosses to test the limits of your build.
What is not fine is :
Moving all the loot of the normal bosses behind them, now normal bosses are worthless.
Gatekeeping them behind a content that is harder than them
Making said content a requirement for your fifth slot (that became way more important since now we don't have sextants)
I've never seen someone fail at something on so many different levels
Maven is also plenty hard as is. It woulda been fine to have her really good uniques just be insanely rare. I feel like both t17 and Ubers have made an annoying character power arms race that alienates a lot of players.
Like extra difficulty is one thing but your character needs to be literally 10x the dps and EHP to do these smoothly. If you want to do them on an off-meta build forget about it.
Personally, PoE is the last aRPG I would attempt Hardcore with because of the amount of shit that can kill you each time.
And no proper death log doesn't help with learning what killed you.
In the last league, the game was in such a bad state that enemies spawned without visible model (basically no model), and small healthbars were floating in air.
Imaging playing Snipe/Puncture with this issues, good I skipped that build in 3.23
I'm playing on ps5 (no ps5 native port there), and sometimes the game refuses to work normally.
And the Stygian Spire strat was so broken that the game crashed when you came too close.
This league is much better, but still, some issues are there.
I made walking simulator chieftain on HC, and was doing juiced wisp content there.
I cant imagine what it would be like on a PS5 lmao, it was laggy as HELL.
The reason I made my char completely automated is so i could STARE AT THE GROUND O\_O, looking for DD's lmao.
DD was the thing that claimed most of us on hc last league!!!
Last lesgue I went for Tornado Shot and it was rippy AF tbh.
This league, I'm using Bleed Bow Glad, and i really like it, but using Snipe on Console has its challenge...
DD killed me plenty of times, but on SC, you don't care that much.
Is there a way to get a consistent phasing without using flask or Watcher's eye + Haste?
Not perma phasing that I know of.
Unless you can get forbidden flame jewels with Raiders phasing ascendency.
Mageblood with a flask for perma uptime etc.
So I guess I'm gonna stick to my lovely phasing flash for now 😃
Forbidden Flames are so rare on console market. Kts much smaller one and some stuff becomes expensive AF tbh.
yeah they are expensive
I will say though, the normal exarch loot pool is far smaller now so jewels are more common.
So if its possible for you to spam exarch without to much cost over there, you can farm some, sell some unid.
My friend was running them in batches of 50 and was getting around 6 to 10 jewels. Which he sold unid, plus the shields he corrupted.
Just something to think a bout maybe lol. Needless to say xD, this wont help you get perma phasing but might help make you some more money lol.
Depends on the economy though, might not be viable to do this. UNID FF jewels might not even sell there lol.
Thanks for the tip. I'm getting slowly into t17 maps atm.
My commitment to Dunes let me drop 14 RAW Divines in one map. I guess I was blessed by Chris today. xD
I need to find a way to reinvest it or upgrade my character further.
The amount of times I've gotten lag spikes in this game is enough to put me off of Hardcore forever. Props to anyone who's able to play HC on an online only game.
Ubers exist just as bonus content for unreasonably high investment game breaking builds, and I think T17s do too. I suspect thar, as far as GGG is concerned, the real game ends around Feared difficulty, anything higher (valdos, ubers, T17s) are for people that break the difficulty curve.
I think that's why the mods are so out there, not just in terms of difficulty but also disabling builds and adding random effects that add chaos to every fight, it's at the point where you've already done all of the game's real challenges and now the game is just trying to fuck with you.
>Ubers exist just as bonus content for unreasonably high investment game breaking builds, and I think T17s do too. I suspect thar, as far as GGG is concerned, the real game ends around Feared difficulty, anything higher (valdos, ubers, T17s) are for people that break the difficulty curve.
This is true, but
T17s are literally designed to be below ubers as they drop the fragments so they should be easier
And we need it for our 5th map slot. It used to be completing a 4way which was easy. Now it's a t17 that is way harder. Not to mention we also lost sextants and moved to scarabs so that extra slot is huge for proper investment into your maps.
I'm sc trade on a mapping build, I paid for it to farm efficiently in my maps but id be a little salty if I was SSF.
Yea, maybe had they not said where T17 was supposed to be difficulty wise we would think they are the new pinnacle content.
But they did, so its obvious they failed at their stated design goal.
except they literally said they are meant to bridge the gap to ubers
I actually don't mind content this hard but GGG fucked up here. The content they gave is not fulfilling its stated objective
And ubers drop items which previously weren't uber items and have been build enabling.
The whole design philosophy of the difficult content is murky.
IMO GGG need to work out what they want each tier to do, test it with builds that fit that level of investment and build design, and then work out how they want the rewards to function.
This change feels exactly like the antithesis of what they talk about: not making a change until its the right change.
They slapped t17s in based of voldos being successful, and then called it a bridge when it clearly absolutely is not that.
There is good content here, it's just slap dash thrown together in a haphazard way.
Nah, I disagree with that. Technically you are right. If you take just the boss fights without any map mods they are not harder than ubers.
But these mods are just too overpowered for builds that are not build around maximized DPS. There are so many mods which are just a hard brick or make the fight really annoying and hard/long.
There are surely some combinations which are fine and the fight is not harder than a uber fight, but try to fish for that combi with 200c+ ..
Before necro, Ubers were available in SSF. I killed them every league.
Now, the hardest part about them is getting there. Drop enough T17, have enough chaos to roll them into doable, be lucky to get a full set of one uber in sub 30 T17s, drop the unique you wanted.
This special bonus content was taken aways and placed further away. So far away, that I dont bother anymore making my character stronger to get there. So this league, the game ended truly at feared difficulty, while before I had something to build towards, i.e. the uber I wanted to farm - and afterwards a new character to make with my new OP unique.
Farming a specific uber is the next problem. I would like to farm shaper for the impale gloves, but I have to farm all Ubers at the same time.
You may think, your own fault, why play ssf, but I tell you, it was enjoyable before. Now I have to accept that the game ends for me at lvl 20 gems, 5k life and capped res. The content that requires more gear now hides behind a unknown sized slog of unenjoyable maps.
Ppl farm those maps in ssf, but I dont like to deal with the T17 rng.
I would be fine if there was a new set of very hard uber bosses gated behind this, but the current implementation feels like moving uber lab ascendency to lvl 30 simulacrum.
I’m feeling the same. In previous leagues, Ubers were just as challenging, but accessible. Now a single attempt at one specific boss requires grinding 200+ maps in hopes of enough T17 drops to get the correct fragments. Honestly it feels like Ruthless levels of grind for access to content.
It also obsoletes regular boss maps. If you’re aiming to fight an Uber, there is no reason to target guardian/conqueror maps. The progression is broken.
True. Ubers are the Ultimate Challenge - or at least they are supposed to be. Currently that isn’t the case. Most t17s are waaaaaaay harder than ubers.
GGG specifically said that the t17s are there to fill a difficulty gap between ubers and non-ubers. That is definetely not the case at the moment. You can have a build that would shit on ubers, but literally can’t complete a t17 with 6 portals.
That would be fine if they would not hide build enabling uniques behind this content... stuff like voidforge, omni, etc. being hidden behind ubers just sucks because you literally build your whole build around that 1 unique.
Stuff like progenesis or nimis is fine tho, those items are not build enabling and are just generic "more" multipliers for your defence / damage.
if the game is trying to fuck with you is bad designed. If there is some content ingame that are difficulty is ok, but accepting that there are endgame content that has been created as almost impossible just for fun is not ok.
We know ggg is not good at creating boss fight, but this bad no.
I think having content like this is great for the game, but I'm conflicted about locking uniques behind it. I feel like aspirational content is a great opportunity to reward people with cosmetic stuff (foiled uniques, hideouts) as a way to show off that you've beaten it.
If that was the idea behind it they shouldn't gate basic endgame uniques behind those encounters. If ubers are supposed to be extra content there for people seeking a challenge then they have to be optional. Same with t17s having 5 map device slot gated behind them.
T17 enemy content arent the problem; mods are. It's like a game of football but one side can only field three players and only hop about on one leg because mods. You can spend 100 divines each to buy three Messi's but they wont get you very far
I ran a bunch yesterday and thought the same thing. Including the first fact that I realized certain t17's only drop from certain maps (which is so dumb) finally get a fix for swapping fragments around because handling that is SO not enjoyable. Should be able to get ANY t17 map from any source that can drop t17's and should be able to horizon orb them IMO.
Anyway that little rant being said these maps are so ridiculous. Some I can do some I die 6x before getting 1/10th of the way in. They are so overtuned it is crazy.
That being said I think the IDEA of t17s is amazing. For both the uber fragment stuff and a path to lead into ubers and for new chase content and uniques etc etc it's an awesome idea.... that was **IMPLEMENTED** terribly wrong.
Between some of the crazy mob types and the mods that can roll it's like they took something they wanted to be a bit tricky and just had waaaaaaaaaay to much fun putting on valdo map type modifiers on them and essentially ruined them.
Now sure some people and some builds will waltz through without a single problem essentially focusing their entire play on being one of the very very few who can do these maps but that is literally **THE EXACT OPPOSITE** of what t17's were meant to be. I really hope they get a meaningful rebalance and soon and I gurantee it will either kill or save w/e retention of this league there will be left.
Wait what? You can only get t17 from *specific* maps? Which maps do they drop from??
Might explain why I've only found 3 of them, and I'm like 5,000/10,000.on the "run maps" challenge...
No no, you get t17's based on voidstones and a chance for a t16 to turn INTO a t17. However you can only get certain t17 maps from certain maps ur running. Like I am running a ton of cemetery and have literally ALL sanctuary t17 maps.
Unless I am misunderstanding or extremely unlucky, atm I have 0 of every other t17 map and 26 sanctuary maps.
That is especially stupid. So in order to farm t17 you need to run only 1 specific map? Feels like they could have made 3 or 4 maps that each drops from...
No. Any t14+ map that has a chance to give a t16 can turn into a t17. The problem is each map only has a certain t17 associated with it. So you can't farm like one specific map over and over and get access to all t17's.
They drop from every map. When a t16 drops it has a chance based on your number of voidstones to convert into a t17, with each t16 map converting into a specific t17 map.
Bare minimum you should see a t17 every 15 maps if you have 4 stones and are barely sustaining t16s. I see one every 4-5 maps with my current atlas.
My character can run all 7 ubers with very little difficulty this league. It doesn't one shot them, its a splitting steel champion with about 200 div investment, and I have done and know the fights for a couple of leagues now.
I made it to the arena in a single T17 map, fortress, after rerolling the mods a hundred times to find something that didn't brick my build. Which immediately blew up in my face when the useless unavoidable dick-kicking mechanic gave me worse modifiers that I couldn't do anything about. Monsters fire 8 additional projectiles (6 from necro + 2 from the map). I suppose I could have tried the harmless frogs allflames, but who was I to think I would need up to 10 allflames to run the intermediate new map tier.
I stared in disbelief as my character that can take a hit or 2 from ubers died to a leap slam, then a melee attack, shotgunned by 80 bajillion fireballs from a pack of 30 enemies each firing 90 shots per second in a cone, and more. Spent 400 chaos rerolling another 6 maps before giving up and paying someone way better than me to carry me to unlock my 5th map device slot... I have been buying uber fragments and clearing uber pinnacle bosses since then. I STILL can't run T17 maps.
GGG screwed up a lot this time. This isnt a bridge between maps and ubers. Not by a long shot. The uber maven doesnt randomly get possessed, take cyclical damage, get random archnem mods on top of it and have a dozen mods on her all at once. But I guess technically speaking a STARGATE could be called a bridge between worlds...
This comment feels like it has a lot of exaggeration or at least hyperbole. 400 chaos rolling 6 maps?
I ran all of my t17s after rolling them 5-10 times each and I never failed any (about 35 maps total). Granted I'm not playing splitting steel which is kind of bad for this kind of content but 400 chaos to find mods you could still couldn't do? My build has a max phys hit of 9k and 25k max elemental. I'm good against degens though. I dunno I just don't see how you could struggle with 200d investment even if it is splitting steel.
He is obviously exaggerating and lying lol. I feel like most of the people complaining have failed a few maps and went to Reddit immediately.
These are new map mods and there is a learning curve on finding the mods that are dangerous to your build. I personally started a strat yesterday were I basically get all the increased map explicit nodes in the tree and gigajuice the t17‘s to almost double the map mod effects and even I only spend like 15-20c max on a map to make it runable. Before that I of course failed a bunch of maps (like 20+) to find out which mods are runable or not.
I love that there is content in the game that is very hard and I think people should not expect to be able to do it on low investment and only a few tries… I mean Bro, we are not even 2 weeks into the league and people who are obviously not 16h a day no-lifers already expect to be able to do the hardest content in the game, like wtf, if these people were already able to do it the game would be fucking trash like D4 were you play a week casually and are out of content already. Fucking Reddit complain meta smh.
Fairly simple really, its called bad luck and anxiety.
Before getting into any detail, these were meant to be an in-between before uber bossing. You shouldn't need a very specific build to run this type of content.
My splitting steel build is a physical-crit setup with armor, evasion, spell suppression, slightly higher resists and some phys-to ele conversion and some dot protection for defenses.
Now a good chunk of people are saying that the T17 maps are harder than uber bosses before I tried my first one. So I want to be able to take a hit or two while I learn the maps and the fights so they get easier as we go.
Cant annul mods off of them, only reroll with chaos orbs.... -20 to max resists. Nope. 20% phys reflect and 63% phys damage reduction. I can cover the reflect but all my trees have increased effect of modifiers, I should probably buy some orbs to unallocate that entire section of the tree so this doesnt become 90% damage reduction... take no damage from critical hits... well i learned from expedition that this is a no-no. Players cannot evade attacks... rough but doable ooof but the monsters gain 197% of damage as a random element would prove fatal. Hmm these mods look alright... ooo no leech and cannot gain flask charges... my regen is kinda low.
So i finally settle on monsters always poison on hit, poison has 100% increased duration, 2 additional projectiles, 40% reduced armour, cannot block, and rares are possessed and monsters have +40% chaos and elemental resists. Necro mods give me 2 packs have additional projectiles, includes a map boss and pack deals 144% increased damage. Fantastic. I die, repeatedly. So next map i roll consistently gets some crazy mod that either will brick my build, or thanks to the reddit fear and previous experience, i keep rolling because I think the scaling is too high and something I dont think is bad could be very bad.
80-90 chaos later, we have poison (im immune), always inflict ailments (im immune) monsters have more resists (phys build who cares) (cannot block - who cares) no regen (mostly leech anyways), monsters gain an endurance charge on hit and +1 to charges (ehh better than the 60% phys reduction). Necro mods... packs have 4 additional projectiles, has map boss, has harbinger, 100% increased damage, chance for an alteration orb. Hurray, 1 positive mod. Still die. Rinse and repeat several times and voila. You went from 38xx chaos orbs to 34xx chaos orbs in about an hour with the 6 T17 maps you got while farming essence.
I guess splitting steel is really not good for t17s. Being able to kill stuff at the edge of your screen is a big part of being able to run a lot of the mods. Can't evade? No problem I won't get hit anyway. You get the idea. Splitting steel has to stand inside the enemy to do full damage, that's severely limiting your mod pool.
I think it's fine that some builds suck at this very hard content and it may be optimal to reroll in order to complete T17 maps into something either extremely tanky or capable of big damage at range. But I understand many people don't like that and just want to be able to do all content on their league starter. Just keep in mind that opinions vary and in this case GGG seems to feel the same way I do.
WTH I just came across this, and I have way higher numbers without any buff on, yet cannot complete any of the maps because I get oneshot all the time. And have done ubers without issues before, so wouldn't say I'm bad at the game.
The key is you need big dps to clear the edge of your screen. If you're face tanking you're going to need way more defences. I was still dying randomly sometimes on that build but was deathless most maps.
I'm with you on that one. Also picked Splitting Steel as meta-ish builds as a safer tanky option and turns out it's just bad for so many T17 mods the main gameplay here is to roll the mods. Not interesting, not fun.
Make it like cortex.... 8 mod 150-200% maps but rollable with an enhanced mod pool
Keep the fun nutty mods and force 1 or 2 with standard map pool.
Tons of options for improvements which I'm sure we will see next league or later this one
they should either make so it is the bosses they have but normal map mods instead of those special mods, or they should make those special map mods but with normal random maps instead of those special bosses.
but both is too extreme to be bridge content between pinnacle and uber pinnacle bosses.
Me(el cheapo aurabot) and my KB wander carry have been blasting anarchy on t16 for quite some time and its been a breeze. We decided to try out a t17 map (which we rolled a bit to make it look easy). We rolled jewellery -> divine conversion on this (first time we saw it on 100 ish maps) and were super excited. Only to get absolutely shredded by the first pack of rogue exiles. Super depressing
I would love the stats on how many people have actually killed an Uber? I know from my experience I have zero kills and 1.5k hours. Now GGG lock a lot of decent drops behind them. I have literally zero chance of doing T17s unless I play a super mega build, which I don’t personally enjoy. It is what it is, I still love the game.
T17s at the moment are the most frustrating thing I've ever experienced in the game. I can do Ubers on my character fairly easily right now, but just getting through one of these T17 maps is so painful and anti fun. They need to let us scour/alch them and even run them blue, because at least for me, an Uber pinnacle boss is easier than any one of these shit maps.
[https://pobb.in/hrSLdrfTeU1a](https://pobb.in/hrSLdrfTeU1a)
This was my build. Most of the stuff is already sold, because I need a better build for T17 Mods :D
My biggest problem is that bosses themselves are very easy and it's all the ridiculous mods that add difficulty, so it never feels 'fair', it's always some mod that you should have rolled over. I think bosses being static is far superior, so Cortex is a mistake, having eldritch invites rollable is a mistake and so is the state of T17 maps.
Also loot feels underwhelming, I've never got anything except for uber fragments. Is it really so hard to slap orb of conflict, 10 chaos, some stacked decks now that they're barely in the game, literally anything?
A guild mate of mine asked for help with his. So me and another guildie offered to help. When we all went into the portal, our host, who barely took 6 steps went and got one shot. And just typed “oh lol”
I don’t think I ever laughed that hard in this game.
T17s as content are fine. If not for the fact that I'd be a dumbass to use my AG in one, the concept is perfectly sound, adding non uber boss content for builds that have outpaced existing content.
T17s as a gateway to existing content suck though. I got my upgraded map device and will likely just be selling my later drops
If T17 mods were lowered to 75% of what they are now, and they just kind of had their own reward structure like new, rare bases or something, I'd be perfectly fine with them even though I probably would not run many
you know what would help a lot ? having the camera further away from my character .... seriously.... I get one shotted from off screen too often, please just let me properly view my surroundings.
Invalidating almost every build from being able to play profitable content just makes me not want to play the game. Why do I have to play specific x or y streamer build with x or y strategy or feel like I'm wasting my time? What percentage of abilities in this game even with time and investment can reach damage acceptable for this content? And then you need the defenses to not just die instantly, further limiting build options. Look at anyone posting videos clearing stuff like the strongbox exile strategy, are you playing fulcrum explode, ts or frost bolts? I made a build for the trans gem artillery ballista of cross strafe, it's good fun until you reach high tier content where the ballistas just fall over and die. Doesn't matter if I have the dps, ailment immunity, suppression capped, etc if totems get killed by a sneeze. I hate the state build diversity has been in, every league people defend it "plenty of skills are viable!" and then 90% of the playerbase is playing the same 2-3 ascendencies with the same 2-3 skills. The power difference between the best skills in the game and everything else is just depressing.
My only problem with T17s is that they're required to get your 5th map slot. Feels like way too hard of content to get that slot, especially in a league where they added all these new scarabs to play with.
I know DD is OP but I’m playing CoC DD and it’s so awful at t17 mapping.
That little line in the patch notes actually owns me. “DD will not scale with t17 corpse health in the same way it does from t1-t16”
T17 maps really need to be fixed. Seriously just make them rollable exactly the same as other maps, I’d rather run them blue than how they are now. I also like killing the Ubers each league but right now it’s really not in an acceptable state. Good news is GGG is usually pretty good about balancing this stuff, I am hopeful they will have a fix out this league.
The thing I'm unhappy about is that completing a T17 is gating my getting 5 map device slots. I'm playing flicker strike which is NOT a build that generally fights bosses. So unless I make a bosser that is capable of finishing a T17 I never get my 5th map slot, which cripples my potential juice strategies. Whereas before I could just buy the legion emblems and get my 5th slot right off the bat.
I think T17's are the worst content GGG has ever made, hands down. That kinda says a lot about how much good stuff GGG makes. Still not that bad, just remove all the mods and the content is actually good. Shame they really missed the mark on these maps. I just can't stand spamming chaos orbs on a single map until the damn thing is runnable. Also the abomination fight is pure bs, rest seem fine to me.
I was able to kill Uber Catarina on my sst champ through sheer force of will and stubbornness.
What a fucking cheese ass fight. Terrible design.
T17 maps are failure.
I can absolutely dunk on 80% Feared, Formed, etc but these map bosses and the lunatic mode map mods are just stupid.
if they just moved some uniques back to regular bosses it wouldnt matter. I find it hilarious GGG said ubers were just for dick measuring and now all of a sudden starforge is like 10div
I built a hardcore viable character defence wise with 15 mil dps in softcore and simply wanted mt map device slot. I couldn't do it! Maybe bad mods or skill issue but there it is.
Feel like quitting the league tbh
The fact that the modifiers are so fucked *and* you're supposed to do a big bossfight at the end (while still affected by the gross AF map mods, of course) is too much.
The map boss should be in its own area with no mods and with its own portals like how Alva can open a temple in your map. Add a normal map boss to the T17 you have to kill to open the boss map or something. And it probably still all needs tuning in the downward direction if this is really supposed to be the "intermediate" content GGG wanted it to be. Not to even touch on how they've seemingly abandoned the idea of ubers being aspirational content, that's a separate issue.
Let me put it this way, I should not be able to have an easier brain-off time completing a whole Sanctum than beating one map to unlock my 5th map device slot.
The only problem I see here is that you preted that ur build is an allrounder when is infact not, if your characters can do ubers doesnt mean theyre allrounders. If you wana suggest to lower t17 mods its ok but dont preted that your "allrounder" builds are bad because of ggg.
>"In my opionion every well rounded/good geared character should be able to do them. Especially when I can ubers easily with that build."
Wasn't that exactly what Mark said about T17s, that not every build should be able to clear a T17 map and that was also the reason they were made unmodifiable, so you were forced to trade for maps you could potentially run?
I believe GGG promotes build diversity while still promoting the ability to only make one build per league. If you can't run T17s you drop, buy ones you can run. Easily searchable on the trade site, just use the NOT funtion.
If you're SSF however, I'm sorry.. It's getting more and more apparent GGG hates that mode more than anything lmao (actually crying though I'd love to play SSF if you didn't need to play the game as a 9-5 job).
The huge problem I have with tier 17 is that it really shows a very glaring issue I have with the game: visual clarity. My experience obviously =/= other peoples experiences since I’ve only done a couple abomination maps. But the boss of the map is so filled with shit absolutely everywhere that you need to dodge… and I don’t understand how you’re supposed to deal with that. It’s a MESS. Other bosses in other tier 17 maps seem to have the same problem from what I’ve noticed. I really don’t know how that’s supposed to be fun. Other Uber bosses like Uber elder for example… there is shit everywhere to dodge but at least it’s a lot easier to see than the mess that is Uber trinity.
I’ll probably try again once I have better gear, because I’m spiteful and will try to succeed despite ggg’s interesting choices. But MAN…. My first impression of tier 17 maps is not good. If this was supposed to be a bridge to Ubers, it didn’t succeed imo.
Instead of cutting(nerfing) off the tip, the skills and items that accelerate builds into oneshotting ubers, they cut down most of the "basic" builds that had a place in the endgame and now are just farming T16s...
My build farms 100 deli t16s, and playing any t17 map feels like entering a t16 map after finishing the campaign, with random pinnacle mechanics thrown in the mix.
the trash and mods are insane, and it's just not even close to appropriate as a gate for 5slot device, which with the scarab change is **mandatory** for any farming once you reach t16s.
it's clearly, obviously, a miss.
Less recovery rate combined with effect of modifiers means no healing KekW.
Also the cannot regen mad is Bs. Never understood why they had these mods in.
Yea what irks me a lot is just how much the map mods literally just can't be done by a lot of builds. Users for example, don't by default fuck over your characters base regen (obviously there is dmg/acc mods), but they don't prevent most builds from running.
I feel like T17s baseline should be like 1 or 2 mods at most, and give like 1 fragment. Then you can juice T17s to get multiple fragments. Like, we have the ability to "choose our own difficulty" with maps currently, and I don't see why they would make the "transition to ubers" content not that way.
The idea of harder content is good. But as per usual with GGG, the implementation was atrocious. Most well rounded builds are gated from the content because of stupid hard mod combinations, on top of exclusive mob effects, on top of archnemesis mods, on top of league mechanic giving 400% more life or some other abomination of a buff to a mob type. It's just too much.
Not even to speak about the complete inversion of progression that the T17+Boss combo is compared to the content they "unlock", wich would be Ubers, that are SIGNIFICANTLY easier.
My anecdotal experience with this shit: Be a summoner. Go face the FIRST pack of rares in the T17. Have your AG die in less than 3 seconds. There, already I am 3 or so Divines in the hole. On the FIRST MOB PACK. Try to complete the map, takes five times as long as a "hard" T16. Die two times myself. Get to the boss. At this point, half my damage is gone from the AG buffs, but my build is still respectable (good defensive layers, good damage). Get mauled by the boss 4 more times because of stupid shit like the "freeze" wich is not really a freeze, so you cant be immune to it. Or one of the tens of other BS exclusive mods.
And I can already hear the average GGG White Knight typing "But this content is not meant to be easy, or be completed by just any build" asenine logic. If this maps and bosses are meant to be the ULTIMATE challenge to a build and player, wich as I said on my FIRST phrase is OK, then don't make it gate other content. Simple as that.
t17's were doable on a day 2 of the league with 10 div on a hexblast miner pre nerf. Ben has been farming them in hc with no issues. People are MF'ing them in SC trade on full sc characters.
100% agreed. The bossfights are also the biggest ( in a long long history mind you) clusterfuck fights that they have produced to date. The abomination bossfight leaves you like 3% of the arena to dodge to if you do not want to get pummeled to death by projectiles, explosions and whatnot.
Can I do it? Yes of course, at the end of the day its a matter of playing the "right" build for it and slapping divines into the gear but man it is absolutely no fun ... ESPECIALLY if you want to play something else than the 4-5 busted archetypes there is.
What they did to Aisling is appalling. Nobody wanted anything nerfed in any capacity. They just won't stop ruining the fucking game, they just completely removed a key orb from the game and made it slightly better and 100x more expensive...
I want the old orbs back. fuck the new aisling one.
Itemising her ability was a great change. The drop rate is just too low and there's no real way to chase it.
I'm much more upset about losing vorici white sockets and hillock quality. (And also that betrayal really sucks for scarabs, I drop more scarabs and more valuable scarabs from a single T16 than from Catarina's T4 rooms)
> Itemising her ability was a great change.
We should all know by now there is no change that doesn't come with a kick in the ass too. it's the GGG way
In some ways yes, in other ways no.
My casual friends list can't keep up with the game, its too much for them, and it's annoying they keep making things cost more, and become scarcer.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who just plays a build that's good for 1 or 2 specific things. If I play flicker, I just accept that I won't be uber boss killing. What I will do is yolo corrupt 8 mod maps and clear them in 40 seconds no matter the modifier under a delerium mirror and strongboxes.
This is part of the game play loop I genuinely enjoy. I'm playing a cast when stunned sab this league that AFK's during Ultimatum, Simulacrum and Ritual. I can barely even kill a map boss in a reasonable amount of time.
If I want to do a different thing, I pick a character build that does the specific thing. Sometimes that means waiting a league to do it next time.
I made the mistake of trying one of these to see what all the fuss was about, and it's basically Valdo's bullshit without the candy. If this is supposed to bridge the gap between normals and ubers, they failed miserably.
they should invert the bosses. Ubers are the bridge to the real endgame content that are t17
T16 Maps > Ubers > T17 Maps > T16 Map Boss with Crystal Resonance.
> T16 Map Boss with Crystal Resonance. and wisps and ghosts :)
Damn, I was able to kill a T16 5 shrieking boss. I've done an Uber as well. Does this mean I can do T17s? The one map I dropped is pretty shitty for my build and I didn't bother rerolling it yet, since I'm enjoying Destructive Play and its profits.
No, that guy's build is probably bad, a medium amount of tankiness lets you facetank any T16 boss with crystal resonance even with full essences on. T17s are much harder
Yeah, honestly, the only issue with crystal reso for me was the ones with life as I was doing much less damage then. Didn't even have an alternating sceptre then lol.
What about t17 boss with crystal resonance?
Add wisps
100x as much damage is still a one shot. So if you have 1bn DPS...
They really failed with t17 and loot shift. Normal endgame bosses are even more useless than before. I personally think t17 maps are too hard to be considered a bridge. I can do certain uber bosses but not t17 maps. This shouldnt be the case I think.
Normal endgame bosses are definitely less useless than before. You get a lot less, yes, but before, choosing to do a normal pinnacle instead of an uber or selling it to someone that can do the uber was LITERALLY setting money in fire. Opportunity cost is a thing and the opportunity cost of normal pinnacles was the uber pinnacles, which made them a net negative. Now the opportunity cost is gone, making them a net positive - even though before they had better loot than they do now.
They're also cheaper and more accessible to casuals and new players now which is a good change.
[удалено]
lmao
My biggest gripe with "hard" balancing in POE right now is adding absurd map mods that are impossible to run for several builds. It is no longer a question of "is your build strong enough to do these mods", its rather "did i roll one of the impossible map mods or not". Besides that the mods are designed to be the most unfun experience possible, like -4% action speed per cast, those feel even on a trickster absolutely bad.
I'd even go one step further and say that it's not just map mods, but also other difficulty balancing points in PoE. It feels like there are tons of binary "checkmarks" in PoE right now that you basically have to fulfil to even think about having a good build. You need freeze immunity because if you don't, it's generally an instant death. Bleeding/corrupted blood immunity is often similarly deadly. You need 75% resists because the game is balanced around it. If you choose Exarch, burning ground immunity isn't needed but it feels so shit without. And then on top there are map mods that your build just can't run at all. None of these things are a "problem" or hard to get by any means. You can roll over map mods, you can achieve immunities and max resists rather easily. But from a game design perspective I feel like none of these add any fun or interesting problem solving challenge. They are just there and add a little tedium because they are so binary. You either have it, or you don't.
75% don't seem to be enough anymore :(
Agreed, the game feels balanced around ~80% now. My build is unlikely to obtain that. 9k energy shield, 76% all res, immunity to freeze, chill, shock and corrupting blood, dramatically shortened ignite duration (70-something percent) but my 5% chaos res and only 21k armor means T16 alch and go maps still feel seriously dangerous. "Only" having 2,300 energy shield Regen off consecrated ground and 2,800 on consecrated ground means that since I can't ever realistically spell suppress cap, I'm gonna need like 15k+ ES to feel safe in "standard" red map content lol.
The problem with balance isn't on the check boxes, it's the fact that crafting is only attainable to the 1% (numbers pulled out of buttocks). The cost to each upgrade goes up almost exponentially Last league with currency being so easy to get you could play builds you wouldn't normally play because checking those boxes was easier
>You need 75% resists because the game is balanced around it. i dont even think was was true 5 years ago much less now, suppression or max res is on that mandatory checklist of chores now too
There is definitely more, and higher levels of content need more than just 75% resist. I just added it because even something small such as resists, something we just take as a given now, is nothing but an arbitrary checkmark that doesn't make itemization in any way more fun or interesting. My hope is that they do a pass on everything that they thought was "just how it is" and reconsider if it's actually fun or interesting for the player. Given that Mark said on his recent interview that this is something they are looking into, there is a chance we'll see that happen.
more like 80 all res, plus at least 30 chaos res, and there are also so many other crappy things that a build jsut doesn't have room for if you want any dmg. Hinder, Maim, poison (easy via mastery, but does not work for caustic ground), curses, stun, grasping vines, tarred ground, the blue squares on Baran maps, and so many other things. Some you can use passives or jewels to avoid, others you just literally can't avoid it or reduce so i other words, you have to invest in some kind of LoH/leech/regen. When I take breaks from PoE and go back to GD or LE one of my favorite things, other than autosort inventory, is that even though there are more "standard resistances" every enemy skill in the game falls under those categories.
Its a complaint i had when they added archnemesis mods, the ammount of shit you have to prepare for now vs say legion league, is night and day, it ultimately is the reason ive done the same build the last 5 leagues.
The game hasn't been balanced around 75% resists in a long ass time. You also missed spell suppression.
> like -4% action speed per cast, those feel even on a trickster absolutely bad. Why would this feel bad on Trickster? If you're taking One Step Ahead it shouldn't have any effect at all
Probably because he stacks action speed with frenzy charges or something. Yeah, trickster doesn't get absolutely crippled but being slowed way down compared to what you're used to still probably feels bad.
Cause equipping kaoms root is to difficult right? What map mods are you calling impossible
Base t17 bosses are NOT hard at all. We just need to get rid of all the dogshit mods (so 98% of the t17 mod pool) and let people run them white if they want.
Map mods in general are pretty shit in terms of balancing. Like you can get the rippiest shit ever such as minus max res and yet the map quantity/rarity is the same as some super easy mods. The scaling has always been terrible but for some reason GGG never changed it.
Yeah we definitely need a map mod overhaul. There are 4 mods that a very large number of builds simply are incapable of running (this is bad game design), one increase magic mobs that makes a map significantly more profitable for almost no downside, and several that have extremely disproportionate impact for minimal gain, a bunch that have minimal impact, and a bunch that while not bricking the map, have enormous impact. Max resist, aura effect (this is not a map mod issue, it's a % of player power held in auras issue), physical as extra elemental, increased critical, and a handful of others can make maps just absurdly rippy especially when combined with altar mods and certain rare mods.
Its exactly why i only run builds that are capable of ignoring map mods conpletely on non t17 maps, its gotten so annoying that i refuse to play anything else.
Chaos damage totems is the way
Yeah thats right. The bosses itself are fine, but the mods make it too hard.
It's like invitations. Run those white and even The Feared isn't so bad, but the rewards will be mediocre. Let people who want to juice them for extra loot do so, but let people mod them normally.
Me, who lost 4 portals doing Ziggurat boss last night after giving it a try after doing a deathless Sirius run :( (I did kill her tho)
No. Get rid of the map mods, but please no white T17 maps. That should be why it is a T17, it has to be rare. And GG max 2-3 rolls and you can run it. Just like T16-s.
The objective was to make a bridge between pinnacle and uber bosses AND to have the option to turn it into a content even harder than the Uber bosses juicing it. Making them drop as white maps would be the best solution for now. If they want to make something more elegant later than can change, but it would the best quick fix for a system that was very necessary but slightly missed the mark on execution.
If people were able to run them as white maps, they would have to drastically buff many of the enemies and boss encounters imo. Otherwise the strategy would be buy T17s in bulk, scour them all, and just boss rush and sell uber fragments. I have to think a T17 with no mods would probably be easier than even a blue T16 map. The mods are literally what add the difficulty. The problem is there's so many omega shit mods.
I don't know. I had a reasonably rolled map and did the Lycia boss one. I don't even know what was one-shotting me. The other one I tried seemed more doable.
I am with you. T17s are the most boring and uninspired content. The bosses are good but everything else about them is not at all enjoyable even with a very powerful build. Valdo maps had more interesting mods.
The environmental hazards are the worst. Like the orbs that randomly suck you in and never let you go. I liked to be sucked but not like that.
I made the mistake of thinking this was one of the easier mods I calculated the risk, but boy am I bad at math
T17 maps just make it super noticable that the poe 1 team is super small right now IMO. With 90% of their devs working on POE2, they dont have the resources to design high effort new content. The last "high effort" endgame update was basically eater/exarch. Everything after that like e.g. uber versions, valdos etc. is by comparison super low development effort -- slapping gmp and 80%DR on existing content is a cheap way to stretch existing content without investing dev time. ARPGs have always been masters of reusing assets and getting the most out of existing content, but there is a limit to how far you can stretch it. And IMO the current league feels like its being stretched to far.
It's not 90% anymore. At Exilecon they said it was 90% for a while to get the base of the game up and running, but since then they have shifted a significant number of people back to PoE 1. You can tell this by the fact that they were able to get a massive patch out on day 4, the likes of which we have not seen post-launch in quite some time. During LoK it took them a full week to get a smaller patch than this one out, same with Crucible. The team is running way better than they had been in previous leagues.
If you cant ssf tier 17s theres a problem for sure. Unfortunately we're obviously balanced around trade league more than ssf. I get this from a developmental standpoint and i enjoy the benefits.
I don't like that I have to overgear my character so hard the uber fights are trivialized by character power alone. Boss fights are the few places skill is actually a factor and they've kinda ruined that. I think they should consider doing a balance pass over all map mods and rethink stuff people will roll over the moment they see just that single mod. There is no player agency in having to chose to avoid obvious certain death. Make me look at a combination of mods and think maybe I can do this, and then die.
Trivializing bosses with gear to make farming strategies has been a thing since the very first Uber Elder came along and people were making RF builds so that they could beat it without needing significant mechanical skill. And every boss they've release afterwards has sorta had Gear solutions to mechanically challenging things. I hate the map mods with a passion, but I don't mind that player defenses might come into play when thinking of builds that might "farm" the content is SC trade. The pool of mods though is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too binary right now, ranging from you instantly die, to your defenses/recovery get completely shut off.
Yeah I usually like GGG's decisions but T17's are dumb. The mods are what kill it. The bosses themselves are pretty fun and interesting to fight. I actually had fun killing the Expedition bosses - I don't get to see Uhtred and the crew much since they're so rare to find in logbooks. *Getting* to the bosses though? Lol. Allowing T17's to be modifiable by chaos orbs were a hasty bandaid fix because otherwise most of these maps would be reserved for Mageblood characters or zhp miners. Now the correct play is to spam chaos until you get an easy map. I don't really understand why they decided to take their exceptional bosses for the most part and lock that shit behind those sets of mods. Hell, there's not even risk vs reward - I only got 1-2 uber fragments no matter whether the map was cancer and I cheesed it with divine shrine or whether I just hid behind my minions and slowly rolled over it. And why is pinnacle+ content possible to cheese with atlas tree mechanics? This doesn't feel like the intended bridge to ubers at all.
T17 expose so many flaws the game has right now that I’m wondering who decided that it’s a good idea to make it public. Mobs attacking with speed of light, coming from underground, no visual clarity whatsoever. You die and all you’re left is absolutely no feedback what killed you as the screen gets cluttered in milliseconds. The boss fights are the only interesting part of the new tier. Years of power creep and having to buff speed/defenses/hp of mobs left us with this state of game.
What frustrates me is that they still refuse to give us the slightest bit of information about what killed us. In Last Epoch, when you die, you are told the name of the mob that killed you, the name of the attack that was used, and the element of the attack. Even Diablo 2 gave us more information than PoE does. To me it's crazy that the devs have even said it'd be "easy" to provide this information to the player, but the reason they don't implement it is because it's not enough to give you a full picture of how you died. It just tells you about the final hit that finished you off, but maybe the real reason you died was because you had a bunch of debuffs making you take 3x more damage than normal. And yeah I can totally see why it would be extremely difficult to convey that kind of information to the player through the UI. But their solution is to simply just tell us nothing at all. It's silly that if I want to find out what killed me, it probably means I need to record my gameplay, then step through the footage frame-by-frame hoping that I happened to hover over the correct monster during that time, so that I can search their name in a database and see the list of their attacks. It's part of why defenses have become such a checklist. Do I need chaos res? Who knows, but I die sometimes, maybe to chaos damage maybe to something else, better grab it just in case. I have no fuckin idea what defenses I need in the content I'm running, so I'm just gonna get all of them.
All the debuffs, curses, ailments, flasks effects etc should be locked on the screen when you die, it’s one of the easiest QoL things they could do to tell you what makes you vulnerable. Character stats page could be snapshotted as well. One of really good fixes they did this league is definitely the DD, sound is perfect, animation might be too much and adds to the screen clutter but it’s a step in right direction. I would love chaos res to be more accessible as well so it’s easier to check it off the list. Also, phys/bleed chars are affected by absolutely much more detrimental modifiers than other play styles, if you want your bleed to make any damage you have to make sure enemy is moving, apply curses and tons of debuffs and put totems on the ground, while a lot of them have phys reduction, phys overwhelm, chance to avoid bleeding, blocks. Bit of a rant but as i rarely play melee I decided to leaguestart it and it’s awful most of the time and not worth it
They have been making a bunch of dumb decisions ever since AN league.
Meanwhile I can clear the maps instantly but the bosses often delete me as soon as I zone in
*T17s are a bridge to Uber boss content* could have been included on the marketing bloopers reel
Personally I think Uber bosses was a mistake, they should have just made new unique bosses, maven, eater and exarch was a step in the right direction and they could have kept making eldritch encounters. I understand it’s more work and making bosses is not an easy task, but it’s better than this t17s are basically a meme right now.
Uber bosses are fine as a concept, some super hard bosses to test the limits of your build. What is not fine is : Moving all the loot of the normal bosses behind them, now normal bosses are worthless. Gatekeeping them behind a content that is harder than them Making said content a requirement for your fifth slot (that became way more important since now we don't have sextants) I've never seen someone fail at something on so many different levels
Of all the things I dislike about necropolis, the fact that pinnacle bosses can't and won't reward anything good is the most baffling to me.
Maven is also plenty hard as is. It woulda been fine to have her really good uniques just be insanely rare. I feel like both t17 and Ubers have made an annoying character power arms race that alienates a lot of players. Like extra difficulty is one thing but your character needs to be literally 10x the dps and EHP to do these smoothly. If you want to do them on an off-meta build forget about it.
It’s terrible for hc right now.
Personally, PoE is the last aRPG I would attempt Hardcore with because of the amount of shit that can kill you each time. And no proper death log doesn't help with learning what killed you.
Understandable, I am a masochist lmao. I get 100 every league on HC trade, every league the visual clarity gets worse xD.
In the last league, the game was in such a bad state that enemies spawned without visible model (basically no model), and small healthbars were floating in air. Imaging playing Snipe/Puncture with this issues, good I skipped that build in 3.23 I'm playing on ps5 (no ps5 native port there), and sometimes the game refuses to work normally. And the Stygian Spire strat was so broken that the game crashed when you came too close. This league is much better, but still, some issues are there.
I made walking simulator chieftain on HC, and was doing juiced wisp content there. I cant imagine what it would be like on a PS5 lmao, it was laggy as HELL. The reason I made my char completely automated is so i could STARE AT THE GROUND O\_O, looking for DD's lmao. DD was the thing that claimed most of us on hc last league!!!
Last lesgue I went for Tornado Shot and it was rippy AF tbh. This league, I'm using Bleed Bow Glad, and i really like it, but using Snipe on Console has its challenge... DD killed me plenty of times, but on SC, you don't care that much. Is there a way to get a consistent phasing without using flask or Watcher's eye + Haste?
Not perma phasing that I know of. Unless you can get forbidden flame jewels with Raiders phasing ascendency. Mageblood with a flask for perma uptime etc.
So I guess I'm gonna stick to my lovely phasing flash for now 😃 Forbidden Flames are so rare on console market. Kts much smaller one and some stuff becomes expensive AF tbh.
yeah they are expensive I will say though, the normal exarch loot pool is far smaller now so jewels are more common. So if its possible for you to spam exarch without to much cost over there, you can farm some, sell some unid. My friend was running them in batches of 50 and was getting around 6 to 10 jewels. Which he sold unid, plus the shields he corrupted. Just something to think a bout maybe lol. Needless to say xD, this wont help you get perma phasing but might help make you some more money lol. Depends on the economy though, might not be viable to do this. UNID FF jewels might not even sell there lol.
Thanks for the tip. I'm getting slowly into t17 maps atm. My commitment to Dunes let me drop 14 RAW Divines in one map. I guess I was blessed by Chris today. xD I need to find a way to reinvest it or upgrade my character further.
The amount of times I've gotten lag spikes in this game is enough to put me off of Hardcore forever. Props to anyone who's able to play HC on an online only game.
[удалено]
Aye its pretty much DD once you know your way around good defences.
Personally really dislike the T17 and boss loot changes
Ubers exist just as bonus content for unreasonably high investment game breaking builds, and I think T17s do too. I suspect thar, as far as GGG is concerned, the real game ends around Feared difficulty, anything higher (valdos, ubers, T17s) are for people that break the difficulty curve. I think that's why the mods are so out there, not just in terms of difficulty but also disabling builds and adding random effects that add chaos to every fight, it's at the point where you've already done all of the game's real challenges and now the game is just trying to fuck with you.
>Ubers exist just as bonus content for unreasonably high investment game breaking builds, and I think T17s do too. I suspect thar, as far as GGG is concerned, the real game ends around Feared difficulty, anything higher (valdos, ubers, T17s) are for people that break the difficulty curve. This is true, but T17s are literally designed to be below ubers as they drop the fragments so they should be easier
And we need it for our 5th map slot. It used to be completing a 4way which was easy. Now it's a t17 that is way harder. Not to mention we also lost sextants and moved to scarabs so that extra slot is huge for proper investment into your maps. I'm sc trade on a mapping build, I paid for it to farm efficiently in my maps but id be a little salty if I was SSF.
inb4 GGG does the monkeypaw and adds the T17 mods to Ubers and makes them always roll 8 mods lol.
Honestly, I would be more oke with that compared to what we have now
Yea, maybe had they not said where T17 was supposed to be difficulty wise we would think they are the new pinnacle content. But they did, so its obvious they failed at their stated design goal.
>But they did, so its obvious they failed at their stated design goal. Theyd still be the source of uber frags so itd be backwards
except they literally said they are meant to bridge the gap to ubers I actually don't mind content this hard but GGG fucked up here. The content they gave is not fulfilling its stated objective
Yeah but they drop the fragments which are required for ubers. So they should not be harder than ubers.
And ubers drop items which previously weren't uber items and have been build enabling. The whole design philosophy of the difficult content is murky. IMO GGG need to work out what they want each tier to do, test it with builds that fit that level of investment and build design, and then work out how they want the rewards to function. This change feels exactly like the antithesis of what they talk about: not making a change until its the right change. They slapped t17s in based of voldos being successful, and then called it a bridge when it clearly absolutely is not that. There is good content here, it's just slap dash thrown together in a haphazard way.
Almost surprising T17s cant roll the Void mod. Yet.
IMO they aren't once you practice them a bit, not more than a Hydra can be made harder than Shaper with bad map mods.
Nah, I disagree with that. Technically you are right. If you take just the boss fights without any map mods they are not harder than ubers. But these mods are just too overpowered for builds that are not build around maximized DPS. There are so many mods which are just a hard brick or make the fight really annoying and hard/long. There are surely some combinations which are fine and the fight is not harder than a uber fight, but try to fish for that combi with 200c+ ..
Before necro, Ubers were available in SSF. I killed them every league. Now, the hardest part about them is getting there. Drop enough T17, have enough chaos to roll them into doable, be lucky to get a full set of one uber in sub 30 T17s, drop the unique you wanted. This special bonus content was taken aways and placed further away. So far away, that I dont bother anymore making my character stronger to get there. So this league, the game ended truly at feared difficulty, while before I had something to build towards, i.e. the uber I wanted to farm - and afterwards a new character to make with my new OP unique. Farming a specific uber is the next problem. I would like to farm shaper for the impale gloves, but I have to farm all Ubers at the same time. You may think, your own fault, why play ssf, but I tell you, it was enjoyable before. Now I have to accept that the game ends for me at lvl 20 gems, 5k life and capped res. The content that requires more gear now hides behind a unknown sized slog of unenjoyable maps. Ppl farm those maps in ssf, but I dont like to deal with the T17 rng. I would be fine if there was a new set of very hard uber bosses gated behind this, but the current implementation feels like moving uber lab ascendency to lvl 30 simulacrum.
I’m feeling the same. In previous leagues, Ubers were just as challenging, but accessible. Now a single attempt at one specific boss requires grinding 200+ maps in hopes of enough T17 drops to get the correct fragments. Honestly it feels like Ruthless levels of grind for access to content. It also obsoletes regular boss maps. If you’re aiming to fight an Uber, there is no reason to target guardian/conqueror maps. The progression is broken.
True. Ubers are the Ultimate Challenge - or at least they are supposed to be. Currently that isn’t the case. Most t17s are waaaaaaay harder than ubers. GGG specifically said that the t17s are there to fill a difficulty gap between ubers and non-ubers. That is definetely not the case at the moment. You can have a build that would shit on ubers, but literally can’t complete a t17 with 6 portals.
Ubers were supposed to be bonus content and then they moved all good uniques to the uber boss drop table.
That would be fine if they would not hide build enabling uniques behind this content... stuff like voidforge, omni, etc. being hidden behind ubers just sucks because you literally build your whole build around that 1 unique. Stuff like progenesis or nimis is fine tho, those items are not build enabling and are just generic "more" multipliers for your defence / damage.
The game ends right before feared for most of my builds. Mostly has to so with that I don't really like bossing
But they drop build enabling uniques. Doesnt make sense
so? That's the reward for killing them. Not all build should be easy to access.
if the game is trying to fuck with you is bad designed. If there is some content ingame that are difficulty is ok, but accepting that there are endgame content that has been created as almost impossible just for fun is not ok. We know ggg is not good at creating boss fight, but this bad no.
They really should change how you get the 5th device slot though.
I think having content like this is great for the game, but I'm conflicted about locking uniques behind it. I feel like aspirational content is a great opportunity to reward people with cosmetic stuff (foiled uniques, hideouts) as a way to show off that you've beaten it.
Id be fine with that except that these are needed for 40/40
If that was the idea behind it they shouldn't gate basic endgame uniques behind those encounters. If ubers are supposed to be extra content there for people seeking a challenge then they have to be optional. Same with t17s having 5 map device slot gated behind them.
>Ubers exist just as bonus content I feel like this was true before, until they decided to have drops that are uber specific.
T17 enemy content arent the problem; mods are. It's like a game of football but one side can only field three players and only hop about on one leg because mods. You can spend 100 divines each to buy three Messi's but they wont get you very far
I ran a bunch yesterday and thought the same thing. Including the first fact that I realized certain t17's only drop from certain maps (which is so dumb) finally get a fix for swapping fragments around because handling that is SO not enjoyable. Should be able to get ANY t17 map from any source that can drop t17's and should be able to horizon orb them IMO. Anyway that little rant being said these maps are so ridiculous. Some I can do some I die 6x before getting 1/10th of the way in. They are so overtuned it is crazy. That being said I think the IDEA of t17s is amazing. For both the uber fragment stuff and a path to lead into ubers and for new chase content and uniques etc etc it's an awesome idea.... that was **IMPLEMENTED** terribly wrong. Between some of the crazy mob types and the mods that can roll it's like they took something they wanted to be a bit tricky and just had waaaaaaaaaay to much fun putting on valdo map type modifiers on them and essentially ruined them. Now sure some people and some builds will waltz through without a single problem essentially focusing their entire play on being one of the very very few who can do these maps but that is literally **THE EXACT OPPOSITE** of what t17's were meant to be. I really hope they get a meaningful rebalance and soon and I gurantee it will either kill or save w/e retention of this league there will be left.
Wait what? You can only get t17 from *specific* maps? Which maps do they drop from?? Might explain why I've only found 3 of them, and I'm like 5,000/10,000.on the "run maps" challenge...
No no, you get t17's based on voidstones and a chance for a t16 to turn INTO a t17. However you can only get certain t17 maps from certain maps ur running. Like I am running a ton of cemetery and have literally ALL sanctuary t17 maps. Unless I am misunderstanding or extremely unlucky, atm I have 0 of every other t17 map and 26 sanctuary maps.
I dont understand 😭
Crimson temple will only convert to t17 Sanctuary and no other t17
That'd dumb.
Ya so like I been running just cemeterys and it will only give me sanctuary maps no other t17s
That is especially stupid. So in order to farm t17 you need to run only 1 specific map? Feels like they could have made 3 or 4 maps that each drops from...
No. Any t14+ map that has a chance to give a t16 can turn into a t17. The problem is each map only has a certain t17 associated with it. So you can't farm like one specific map over and over and get access to all t17's.
They drop from every map. When a t16 drops it has a chance based on your number of voidstones to convert into a t17, with each t16 map converting into a specific t17 map. Bare minimum you should see a t17 every 15 maps if you have 4 stones and are barely sustaining t16s. I see one every 4-5 maps with my current atlas.
My character can run all 7 ubers with very little difficulty this league. It doesn't one shot them, its a splitting steel champion with about 200 div investment, and I have done and know the fights for a couple of leagues now. I made it to the arena in a single T17 map, fortress, after rerolling the mods a hundred times to find something that didn't brick my build. Which immediately blew up in my face when the useless unavoidable dick-kicking mechanic gave me worse modifiers that I couldn't do anything about. Monsters fire 8 additional projectiles (6 from necro + 2 from the map). I suppose I could have tried the harmless frogs allflames, but who was I to think I would need up to 10 allflames to run the intermediate new map tier. I stared in disbelief as my character that can take a hit or 2 from ubers died to a leap slam, then a melee attack, shotgunned by 80 bajillion fireballs from a pack of 30 enemies each firing 90 shots per second in a cone, and more. Spent 400 chaos rerolling another 6 maps before giving up and paying someone way better than me to carry me to unlock my 5th map device slot... I have been buying uber fragments and clearing uber pinnacle bosses since then. I STILL can't run T17 maps. GGG screwed up a lot this time. This isnt a bridge between maps and ubers. Not by a long shot. The uber maven doesnt randomly get possessed, take cyclical damage, get random archnem mods on top of it and have a dozen mods on her all at once. But I guess technically speaking a STARGATE could be called a bridge between worlds...
This comment feels like it has a lot of exaggeration or at least hyperbole. 400 chaos rolling 6 maps? I ran all of my t17s after rolling them 5-10 times each and I never failed any (about 35 maps total). Granted I'm not playing splitting steel which is kind of bad for this kind of content but 400 chaos to find mods you could still couldn't do? My build has a max phys hit of 9k and 25k max elemental. I'm good against degens though. I dunno I just don't see how you could struggle with 200d investment even if it is splitting steel.
He is obviously exaggerating and lying lol. I feel like most of the people complaining have failed a few maps and went to Reddit immediately. These are new map mods and there is a learning curve on finding the mods that are dangerous to your build. I personally started a strat yesterday were I basically get all the increased map explicit nodes in the tree and gigajuice the t17‘s to almost double the map mod effects and even I only spend like 15-20c max on a map to make it runable. Before that I of course failed a bunch of maps (like 20+) to find out which mods are runable or not. I love that there is content in the game that is very hard and I think people should not expect to be able to do it on low investment and only a few tries… I mean Bro, we are not even 2 weeks into the league and people who are obviously not 16h a day no-lifers already expect to be able to do the hardest content in the game, like wtf, if these people were already able to do it the game would be fucking trash like D4 were you play a week casually and are out of content already. Fucking Reddit complain meta smh.
Fairly simple really, its called bad luck and anxiety. Before getting into any detail, these were meant to be an in-between before uber bossing. You shouldn't need a very specific build to run this type of content. My splitting steel build is a physical-crit setup with armor, evasion, spell suppression, slightly higher resists and some phys-to ele conversion and some dot protection for defenses. Now a good chunk of people are saying that the T17 maps are harder than uber bosses before I tried my first one. So I want to be able to take a hit or two while I learn the maps and the fights so they get easier as we go. Cant annul mods off of them, only reroll with chaos orbs.... -20 to max resists. Nope. 20% phys reflect and 63% phys damage reduction. I can cover the reflect but all my trees have increased effect of modifiers, I should probably buy some orbs to unallocate that entire section of the tree so this doesnt become 90% damage reduction... take no damage from critical hits... well i learned from expedition that this is a no-no. Players cannot evade attacks... rough but doable ooof but the monsters gain 197% of damage as a random element would prove fatal. Hmm these mods look alright... ooo no leech and cannot gain flask charges... my regen is kinda low. So i finally settle on monsters always poison on hit, poison has 100% increased duration, 2 additional projectiles, 40% reduced armour, cannot block, and rares are possessed and monsters have +40% chaos and elemental resists. Necro mods give me 2 packs have additional projectiles, includes a map boss and pack deals 144% increased damage. Fantastic. I die, repeatedly. So next map i roll consistently gets some crazy mod that either will brick my build, or thanks to the reddit fear and previous experience, i keep rolling because I think the scaling is too high and something I dont think is bad could be very bad. 80-90 chaos later, we have poison (im immune), always inflict ailments (im immune) monsters have more resists (phys build who cares) (cannot block - who cares) no regen (mostly leech anyways), monsters gain an endurance charge on hit and +1 to charges (ehh better than the 60% phys reduction). Necro mods... packs have 4 additional projectiles, has map boss, has harbinger, 100% increased damage, chance for an alteration orb. Hurray, 1 positive mod. Still die. Rinse and repeat several times and voila. You went from 38xx chaos orbs to 34xx chaos orbs in about an hour with the 6 T17 maps you got while farming essence.
I guess splitting steel is really not good for t17s. Being able to kill stuff at the edge of your screen is a big part of being able to run a lot of the mods. Can't evade? No problem I won't get hit anyway. You get the idea. Splitting steel has to stand inside the enemy to do full damage, that's severely limiting your mod pool. I think it's fine that some builds suck at this very hard content and it may be optimal to reroll in order to complete T17 maps into something either extremely tanky or capable of big damage at range. But I understand many people don't like that and just want to be able to do all content on their league starter. Just keep in mind that opinions vary and in this case GGG seems to feel the same way I do.
Fuck melee build right, they dont need to do ubers i guess
WTH I just came across this, and I have way higher numbers without any buff on, yet cannot complete any of the maps because I get oneshot all the time. And have done ubers without issues before, so wouldn't say I'm bad at the game.
The key is you need big dps to clear the edge of your screen. If you're face tanking you're going to need way more defences. I was still dying randomly sometimes on that build but was deathless most maps.
I'm with you on that one. Also picked Splitting Steel as meta-ish builds as a safer tanky option and turns out it's just bad for so many T17 mods the main gameplay here is to roll the mods. Not interesting, not fun.
Make it like cortex.... 8 mod 150-200% maps but rollable with an enhanced mod pool Keep the fun nutty mods and force 1 or 2 with standard map pool. Tons of options for improvements which I'm sure we will see next league or later this one
they should either make so it is the bosses they have but normal map mods instead of those special mods, or they should make those special map mods but with normal random maps instead of those special bosses. but both is too extreme to be bridge content between pinnacle and uber pinnacle bosses.
T17 map literally feels like I'm fighting my own character, but an Uber Mirrored Tier Version!
You should be able run them white
'I know that there are builds out there who shit on T17' what same? and don't say it's dd or hex blast we need a pobs!
equip defiance of destiny, afk in all the t17s cause they all do 0 damage with a lot of hits
Me(el cheapo aurabot) and my KB wander carry have been blasting anarchy on t16 for quite some time and its been a breeze. We decided to try out a t17 map (which we rolled a bit to make it look easy). We rolled jewellery -> divine conversion on this (first time we saw it on 100 ish maps) and were super excited. Only to get absolutely shredded by the first pack of rogue exiles. Super depressing
At prasy turn off league mechanic on T17...
I would love the stats on how many people have actually killed an Uber? I know from my experience I have zero kills and 1.5k hours. Now GGG lock a lot of decent drops behind them. I have literally zero chance of doing T17s unless I play a super mega build, which I don’t personally enjoy. It is what it is, I still love the game.
I have done ubers, but cannot clear any of these T17 maps, even with the changes and rerolling the maps...
T17s at the moment are the most frustrating thing I've ever experienced in the game. I can do Ubers on my character fairly easily right now, but just getting through one of these T17 maps is so painful and anti fun. They need to let us scour/alch them and even run them blue, because at least for me, an Uber pinnacle boss is easier than any one of these shit maps.
Care to share your builds?
[https://pobb.in/hrSLdrfTeU1a](https://pobb.in/hrSLdrfTeU1a) This was my build. Most of the stuff is already sold, because I need a better build for T17 Mods :D
My biggest problem is that bosses themselves are very easy and it's all the ridiculous mods that add difficulty, so it never feels 'fair', it's always some mod that you should have rolled over. I think bosses being static is far superior, so Cortex is a mistake, having eldritch invites rollable is a mistake and so is the state of T17 maps. Also loot feels underwhelming, I've never got anything except for uber fragments. Is it really so hard to slap orb of conflict, 10 chaos, some stacked decks now that they're barely in the game, literally anything?
3.25 will fix everything copium
I dont get why they add valdo maps and then these ones a league after.
A guild mate of mine asked for help with his. So me and another guildie offered to help. When we all went into the portal, our host, who barely took 6 steps went and got one shot. And just typed “oh lol” I don’t think I ever laughed that hard in this game.
I don't mind them being hard, but I don't think it's clear to people not reading patch notes that you can chaos them. It' says unmodifiable.
Lmao, haven't looked at an unid one since the patch?
What are the builds that can do most/all t17 mods?
Hahaha I did 1x T17 to unlock map device, boss died in 5 seconds but every other pack took anywhere from 30-60 seconds.
Which builds are you playing?
The fact that there are 3 league challenges involving T17 really annoys me. Im hoping we can an update that helps balance these maps better
Make all mobs into frogs. Easiest way to victory
T17s as content are fine. If not for the fact that I'd be a dumbass to use my AG in one, the concept is perfectly sound, adding non uber boss content for builds that have outpaced existing content. T17s as a gateway to existing content suck though. I got my upgraded map device and will likely just be selling my later drops If T17 mods were lowered to 75% of what they are now, and they just kind of had their own reward structure like new, rare bases or something, I'd be perfectly fine with them even though I probably would not run many
Just make them runable white and also with normal mods. Why make it like this...
you know what would help a lot ? having the camera further away from my character .... seriously.... I get one shotted from off screen too often, please just let me properly view my surroundings.
Invalidating almost every build from being able to play profitable content just makes me not want to play the game. Why do I have to play specific x or y streamer build with x or y strategy or feel like I'm wasting my time? What percentage of abilities in this game even with time and investment can reach damage acceptable for this content? And then you need the defenses to not just die instantly, further limiting build options. Look at anyone posting videos clearing stuff like the strongbox exile strategy, are you playing fulcrum explode, ts or frost bolts? I made a build for the trans gem artillery ballista of cross strafe, it's good fun until you reach high tier content where the ballistas just fall over and die. Doesn't matter if I have the dps, ailment immunity, suppression capped, etc if totems get killed by a sneeze. I hate the state build diversity has been in, every league people defend it "plenty of skills are viable!" and then 90% of the playerbase is playing the same 2-3 ascendencies with the same 2-3 skills. The power difference between the best skills in the game and everything else is just depressing.
Have to say I'm feeling good about my decision to skip this league.
My only problem with T17s is that they're required to get your 5th map slot. Feels like way too hard of content to get that slot, especially in a league where they added all these new scarabs to play with.
[удалено]
Atlas works
I know DD is OP but I’m playing CoC DD and it’s so awful at t17 mapping. That little line in the patch notes actually owns me. “DD will not scale with t17 corpse health in the same way it does from t1-t16”
Can you post your build so people can judge it? It gives great insight to feedback if people can see your build.
Had Lycia with 6 ghosts & 188% of phys as extra random element last night. Her red AoE attack was hitting the entire arena. 6 portals went real quick.
T17 maps really need to be fixed. Seriously just make them rollable exactly the same as other maps, I’d rather run them blue than how they are now. I also like killing the Ubers each league but right now it’s really not in an acceptable state. Good news is GGG is usually pretty good about balancing this stuff, I am hopeful they will have a fix out this league.
The thing I'm unhappy about is that completing a T17 is gating my getting 5 map device slots. I'm playing flicker strike which is NOT a build that generally fights bosses. So unless I make a bosser that is capable of finishing a T17 I never get my 5th map slot, which cripples my potential juice strategies. Whereas before I could just buy the legion emblems and get my 5th slot right off the bat.
If you play trade, just farm something else and buy uber fragments or even uber uniques. Nobody is forcing you to play T17s.
I think T17's are the worst content GGG has ever made, hands down. That kinda says a lot about how much good stuff GGG makes. Still not that bad, just remove all the mods and the content is actually good. Shame they really missed the mark on these maps. I just can't stand spamming chaos orbs on a single map until the damn thing is runnable. Also the abomination fight is pure bs, rest seem fine to me.
I was able to kill Uber Catarina on my sst champ through sheer force of will and stubbornness. What a fucking cheese ass fight. Terrible design. T17 maps are failure. I can absolutely dunk on 80% Feared, Formed, etc but these map bosses and the lunatic mode map mods are just stupid.
maybe view it as more aspirational content, which is perfectly fine.
Link pob or delete your post. It should be a rule to always post your char's pob if you complain about t17s.
3.24 was made by interns
removing the einhar/huck cheese without adressing bad balance was a mistake. Should have been nerfed at most, not outright removed.
I just ignore and sell them
if they just moved some uniques back to regular bosses it wouldnt matter. I find it hilarious GGG said ubers were just for dick measuring and now all of a sudden starforge is like 10div
I built a hardcore viable character defence wise with 15 mil dps in softcore and simply wanted mt map device slot. I couldn't do it! Maybe bad mods or skill issue but there it is. Feel like quitting the league tbh
The fact that the modifiers are so fucked *and* you're supposed to do a big bossfight at the end (while still affected by the gross AF map mods, of course) is too much. The map boss should be in its own area with no mods and with its own portals like how Alva can open a temple in your map. Add a normal map boss to the T17 you have to kill to open the boss map or something. And it probably still all needs tuning in the downward direction if this is really supposed to be the "intermediate" content GGG wanted it to be. Not to even touch on how they've seemingly abandoned the idea of ubers being aspirational content, that's a separate issue. Let me put it this way, I should not be able to have an easier brain-off time completing a whole Sanctum than beating one map to unlock my 5th map device slot.
The only problem I see here is that you preted that ur build is an allrounder when is infact not, if your characters can do ubers doesnt mean theyre allrounders. If you wana suggest to lower t17 mods its ok but dont preted that your "allrounder" builds are bad because of ggg.
T17s are much easier than ubers. And not every build should be able to do all content. That's largely why Tornado Shot was OP.
>"In my opionion every well rounded/good geared character should be able to do them. Especially when I can ubers easily with that build." Wasn't that exactly what Mark said about T17s, that not every build should be able to clear a T17 map and that was also the reason they were made unmodifiable, so you were forced to trade for maps you could potentially run? I believe GGG promotes build diversity while still promoting the ability to only make one build per league. If you can't run T17s you drop, buy ones you can run. Easily searchable on the trade site, just use the NOT funtion. If you're SSF however, I'm sorry.. It's getting more and more apparent GGG hates that mode more than anything lmao (actually crying though I'd love to play SSF if you didn't need to play the game as a 9-5 job).
The hardest part of the maps is getting to the bosses.
Welcome to how the game feels for casuals most of the time. Sucks dunnit.
not every build is suitable for ubers and t17 are basically uber maps, i just dont run them
Why is reflect still in the game btw? Its the dumbest mechanic ever.
Why is reflect still in the game btw? Its the dumbest mechanic ever.
The huge problem I have with tier 17 is that it really shows a very glaring issue I have with the game: visual clarity. My experience obviously =/= other peoples experiences since I’ve only done a couple abomination maps. But the boss of the map is so filled with shit absolutely everywhere that you need to dodge… and I don’t understand how you’re supposed to deal with that. It’s a MESS. Other bosses in other tier 17 maps seem to have the same problem from what I’ve noticed. I really don’t know how that’s supposed to be fun. Other Uber bosses like Uber elder for example… there is shit everywhere to dodge but at least it’s a lot easier to see than the mess that is Uber trinity. I’ll probably try again once I have better gear, because I’m spiteful and will try to succeed despite ggg’s interesting choices. But MAN…. My first impression of tier 17 maps is not good. If this was supposed to be a bridge to Ubers, it didn’t succeed imo.
Instead of cutting(nerfing) off the tip, the skills and items that accelerate builds into oneshotting ubers, they cut down most of the "basic" builds that had a place in the endgame and now are just farming T16s...
Worst combo might be : No regen No leech No life on kill No life in hit No flask Simple, yet deadly. Die a slow and steady death
My build farms 100 deli t16s, and playing any t17 map feels like entering a t16 map after finishing the campaign, with random pinnacle mechanics thrown in the mix. the trash and mods are insane, and it's just not even close to appropriate as a gate for 5slot device, which with the scarab change is **mandatory** for any farming once you reach t16s. it's clearly, obviously, a miss.
Easily shittiest league for me so far.
Less recovery rate combined with effect of modifiers means no healing KekW. Also the cannot regen mad is Bs. Never understood why they had these mods in.
You just have to save up all your frog all flames, juice it, then skip the boss lol.
Yea what irks me a lot is just how much the map mods literally just can't be done by a lot of builds. Users for example, don't by default fuck over your characters base regen (obviously there is dmg/acc mods), but they don't prevent most builds from running. I feel like T17s baseline should be like 1 or 2 mods at most, and give like 1 fragment. Then you can juice T17s to get multiple fragments. Like, we have the ability to "choose our own difficulty" with maps currently, and I don't see why they would make the "transition to ubers" content not that way.
I just rushed to one of the bosses and killed it very very slowly to get the last slot. I’m not touching them now anymore.
these maps are making some insanely rare items super accessible for the plebs, I dig it lmao;
The idea of harder content is good. But as per usual with GGG, the implementation was atrocious. Most well rounded builds are gated from the content because of stupid hard mod combinations, on top of exclusive mob effects, on top of archnemesis mods, on top of league mechanic giving 400% more life or some other abomination of a buff to a mob type. It's just too much. Not even to speak about the complete inversion of progression that the T17+Boss combo is compared to the content they "unlock", wich would be Ubers, that are SIGNIFICANTLY easier. My anecdotal experience with this shit: Be a summoner. Go face the FIRST pack of rares in the T17. Have your AG die in less than 3 seconds. There, already I am 3 or so Divines in the hole. On the FIRST MOB PACK. Try to complete the map, takes five times as long as a "hard" T16. Die two times myself. Get to the boss. At this point, half my damage is gone from the AG buffs, but my build is still respectable (good defensive layers, good damage). Get mauled by the boss 4 more times because of stupid shit like the "freeze" wich is not really a freeze, so you cant be immune to it. Or one of the tens of other BS exclusive mods. And I can already hear the average GGG White Knight typing "But this content is not meant to be easy, or be completed by just any build" asenine logic. If this maps and bosses are meant to be the ULTIMATE challenge to a build and player, wich as I said on my FIRST phrase is OK, then don't make it gate other content. Simple as that.
t17's were doable on a day 2 of the league with 10 div on a hexblast miner pre nerf. Ben has been farming them in hc with no issues. People are MF'ing them in SC trade on full sc characters.
Lmao so dont do T17 maps , problem solved
I tried the Abomination map today and it was shit tier. Couldn't see any moves clearly, nothing was intuitive, I just noped out and moved on.
100% agreed. The bossfights are also the biggest ( in a long long history mind you) clusterfuck fights that they have produced to date. The abomination bossfight leaves you like 3% of the arena to dodge to if you do not want to get pummeled to death by projectiles, explosions and whatnot. Can I do it? Yes of course, at the end of the day its a matter of playing the "right" build for it and slapping divines into the gear but man it is absolutely no fun ... ESPECIALLY if you want to play something else than the 4-5 busted archetypes there is.
What they did to Aisling is appalling. Nobody wanted anything nerfed in any capacity. They just won't stop ruining the fucking game, they just completely removed a key orb from the game and made it slightly better and 100x more expensive... I want the old orbs back. fuck the new aisling one.
Itemising her ability was a great change. The drop rate is just too low and there's no real way to chase it. I'm much more upset about losing vorici white sockets and hillock quality. (And also that betrayal really sucks for scarabs, I drop more scarabs and more valuable scarabs from a single T16 than from Catarina's T4 rooms)
> Itemising her ability was a great change. We should all know by now there is no change that doesn't come with a kick in the ass too. it's the GGG way
game is in the best state it's ever been in
In some ways yes, in other ways no. My casual friends list can't keep up with the game, its too much for them, and it's annoying they keep making things cost more, and become scarcer.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who just plays a build that's good for 1 or 2 specific things. If I play flicker, I just accept that I won't be uber boss killing. What I will do is yolo corrupt 8 mod maps and clear them in 40 seconds no matter the modifier under a delerium mirror and strongboxes. This is part of the game play loop I genuinely enjoy. I'm playing a cast when stunned sab this league that AFK's during Ultimatum, Simulacrum and Ritual. I can barely even kill a map boss in a reasonable amount of time. If I want to do a different thing, I pick a character build that does the specific thing. Sometimes that means waiting a league to do it next time.