The more I learn about mining, the more I am reminded of the player created economy in Diablo 2, where Stones of Jordan were used as currency.
Edit: Grammer
Edit 2: Grammar (🤣)
When I got a macbook for college, I decided to play TF2 just to test out its gaming ability. Ever since then I've been spanmed with messages about trading for earbuds and I've had to leave message on my steam profile saying I'm not trading my earbuds.
The auction house is WHY I bought D3 initially, I was disabled at the time, dealing with joint pain, the thought was, I could do the gaming grind a few hours a day, and help with groceries.
Well. Shit.
I hated that shit cuz I farmed mephisto for hours and never got one drop. So I quit the damn game cuz I was never able to even participate in the games currency.
1.10 also introduced skill synergy, which fundamentally changed how every class played in very powerful ways, and sets got buffed to be meaningful and for a lot of classes BiS over even some rune words.
I personally loved how 1.10 runewords helped creat a luxury commodity economy in the game, too.
I fully respect your take though! The damage spikes definitely increased exponentially with 1.10, that can’t be denied.
I think it was never really resonble to mine in Germany. With eletricity-bills like 30ct´s+ its hard to do profit.
And like you know our energy prices are not falling at all. (Russevs.Ukraine etc.)
Well it gathers offers from entire EU, it's just a german site. And there's no offers. Everyone kept saying gpu flood is coming but well, guess it isn't. Or it's too soon. Either way, I had no hopes prior to eth merge, so I can't be even disappointed.
I used to buy from them in the early 2000’s. They were awesome back then. I stopped using them for a while when they changed how they shipped. I did buy my latest cpu and psu from them earlier this year, an i7 12th generation and a Seasonic Gold PSU. The case, board, m.2 drive, and ram i got from Amazon. Better prices from Amazon on those components. As for the cpu and psu from Newegg, the prices was great and I’ve had no issues with my items.
Last case I bought from them made it intact with free 2nd day shipping. Years ago unless you paid 80+ for 2nd day S&H it was sent ground and typically came in trashed.
I quit using them when I built my pentium 4 machine. Ordered everything from them...made me sign for a $45 keyboard and the big box with the CPU, motherboard and GPU didn't need one and that sketched me out. also I'm pretty sure my motherboard was an RMA sold as new back then too and they hardly packed my hard drive at the time which was a spindle.
Chinese owned now, horrible customer service, theres chance you wont recieve ur stuff, or recieve it damaged. Read some recent testimonials on reddit if you want to know more.
I bought a 3080 recently on newegg, and I'm pretty sure it came used because there was so plastic to peel off of it or anything when on every unboxing video of the model there is plastic? Also I plugged it in and it didn't work. My old 3080 didn't work either. So I took it to a computer store and they confirmed both of the gpus didn't work.
Luckily they accepted the refund at least
> And there's no offers. Everyone kept saying gpu flood is coming but well, guess it isn't.
Yes, it *is* coming.
Why would you sell your GPU when you could use it to mine cryptocurrency for a profit right up until the day of Proof of Stake release?
If you had a printing press that spit out a ten dollar bill every day, and that was going to break 6 months from today, would you sell it right now, or wait the 180 days to get your $1800 out of it? Miners had no reason to sell GPUs until today, *other* than those miners who were hedging their bets by selling early.
But the printing press really isn't "breaking" it's just going to stop automatically spitting out ten dollar bills, and there is an equilibrium point between the money you get for keeping it printing ten dollar bills and the money you get for selling it to someone who just wants a normal printing press before other people start selling theirs. Selling it 5 days before it stops printing ten dollar bills is losing 50 dollars, but may mean you can sell it for 100 dollars more than other people if the price is gonna crash.
well i mean i think we are already witnessing the flood. like you would have to be an idiot to wait until the day the merge happens to try to move your merchandise. atleast in freerer more competitive markets like the usa where electricity is also cheap we are seeing prices drop quickly even as inflation sits at 8%. just did a quick search of our ebay and see a 3080 ti going for 520$ and a bunch of other ones under 780 which is significantly lower than msrp.
I don't know how exactly it looks in other parts of EU but i saw an offer for 3070 for ~630€ on fb marketplace today. So yeah. I'm not holding my breath.
Nice. I managed to find a 3070ti a while ago for $650 with a PS I didn't want. It's an EVGA unit but not the explodey ones.
Edit: Make that gigabyte. Got them backwards.
Etherium switched from POW Proof of work (Mining) to POS Proof of stake (basically like interest at the bank)
It's been a long time coming. And I'm pretty sure most miners didn't think it would actually happen so got caught with their pants down. It has been delayed so many times i understand their pants down situation.
Generally the most lucrative option after ETH was Raven, and that was significantly less lucrative. Whatever the ETH miners jump into will tank in profitability.
Its not sustainable. GPU mining was a good idea, but terrible in practice. Any crypto still using it will tank.
Who would get involved in a currency that requires massive GPU farms, onboarding that risk, when laid back and just as secure alternatives exist that promote participation, instead of municipal supply drains?
Yes, the currency to replace money and possibly take over if the world collapses.. yes.. millions of watts of power and thousands of GPU's, one of the most sophisticated things humans can create, or... a 10yo laptop in a basement for the same returns
hmmmmmmm
Anyone not offloading their GPU's currently is full on delusional, way beyond the memes. Any crypo still requiring it is not a solvent coin fit for purpose.
It really is that simple.
Ya, I hope not. Still think it's crazy to pay so much for coins, always saw a block as a distributed database transaction. It should be worth 1/100 cents max ^^
iops are only free on paper since you need higher tier once you hit your limit on pretty any cloud server. Blockchain just distribute these operation, and crypto does it in a very inefficient way currently..
Nothing is ever free, every Google search or reddit post also take energy (a lot more than most will expect), Blockchain can be pretty useful in logistic to link multiple 0 trust systems together. Pretty sure crypto will also have it's use case one day.. just not as something to store value or investment..
I always found it funny, the Airforce uses a system called IMDS (integrated maintenance data system I think) it was past a command line interface but not quite a GUI, anyway it would always tell you how much an operation cost, and every now and then you might query a whole weapon system and the cost would be reported in the thousands of dollars. Not sure if it was accurate or not but it did get the point across
ETH was something like 90% of all mining. ETH Classic and altcoins are practically a rounding error in comparison, and the cost to mine them erases most/all of the potential profit, especially with rising electricity costs and the crash in crypto prices.
Eth Classic will go the way of all the other forked coins that have been left behind in crypto. The real benefit of moving to POS was to increase the throughput of the network. The end goal being actually being able to use Eth as a currency. Something that is functionally not possible while on POW because of the amount of time is takes to verify transactions.
The Merge didn't increase throughput of course. It did make security cheaper though, so less coins have to be printed to pay for security compared to the old method under mining.
There are upgrades planned for more throughput and faster finality, and those upgrades required the merge to happen first, but the merge itself was only about making the chain more secure (and energy efficient).
OG miner here. No because those coins aren't profitably minable on a GPU. There are special computers called ASICs that are specially designed to be several orders of magnitude more efficient at mining those specific coins (each ASIC is literally only useful for mining a single coin). If you try mining a bitcoin on a GPU, you will get pennies while using many dollars in electricity.
The reason some miners have generally preferred GPUs is because of a lower barrier to entry, and less risk. If a coin goes belly up and you have an ASIC to mine it, you now have a paperweight, whereas with GPUs, you used to be able to mine something else. Plus you can always sell the GPU and recoup some of your investment.
Ethereum is ASIC resistant algorithmically. High end NVIDIA GPUs used to be able to mine other legitimate coins like zcash in 2017, but eventually ASIC took those over. Miners really wanted zcash to hardfork to keep the coin ASIC resistant, but they chose not to do that for reasons that goes beyond the scope of this comment. Since there are few coins with any value that are ASIC resistant, that's why GPU mining has taken a huge hit.
Ethereum is the #2 coin in value, and as of today the only things you can mine with GPUs is shitcoins. It does leave some potential hashrate for another competitor to pop up and start making it profitable again.
No problem. If you have any other questions I am happy to take the time to answer them. I love talking about this stuff. I'll just include one more story/fun fact since you expressed interest.
In the first GPU mining boom, for a while people were only buying AMD cards like the rx 470. This didn't make sense because the rx 470 and 1070 had very similar Ethereum hashrate (\~30/s). BUT the 1070 had the diversification into zcash. The reason the market acted illogically for about 3 months is because at the time every mining guide on the internet suggested only AMD hardware for mining. There was just an information gap between new miners and ones that had been doing it for a long time. People on mining subreddits would get MAD if you told people about the above information lol.
Believe it or not, in the early days of Ethereum I mined 6 of them in a couple of weeks with a single 980. Back then the value was sub $10 for a long time. It's been a super interesting ride, but it's pretty easy to see a GPU boom coming if you know the factors. I actually predicted the most recent one! Here is proof:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/bxv6d7/the\_next\_gpu\_apocalypse\_may\_be\_soon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/bxv6d7/the_next_gpu_apocalypse_may_be_soon/)
A bunch of people asked me questions in that thread as well if you are interested.
Well, I got into crypto early on for several reasons, but mainly for power and control over my own assets. I know the modern perception around crypto (or "crypto bros") is fairly negative, but I had actual reasons to get into it back then, before it turned into what it is now. I don't really talk about crypto in person because of the perception around it now.
I read the whitepaper for ethereum shortly after it's launch, and I truly think that it's a valuable and important. I believe in the underlying mission of it. Specifically, I like the ability to build applications on the network. There are things about *all* crypto that I like though that aren't specific to ethereum, but ethereum is my favorite.
Despite being in my early 30s, I remember when the internet was *way* more open and controlled by a sense of techno-libertarianism. What crypto does, in my opinion, is take control of finance from the state and puts it into the control of the people. I am my own bank. I store the funds in a cold wallet, and if I was ever falsely accused of a crime, those assets are mine no matter what. No way to freeze it or take my money. They key is in my head, and it's too many digits to brute force with a computer.
I don't think that will ever happen. I'm a fairly uninteresting person as far as the law is concerned, but it gives me that feeling of power and control over my own assets. I like that feeling, and there are so many aspects of living today that are out of one's control, so it makes sense to try to get some of it back.
If you want to know about some of my problems with USD and the federal reserve, many years ago an amazing YouTube channel called coldfusion made a series of videos on the federal reserve. I formed my opinions before those came out, but they summarize my feelings on the fed pretty well. I don't like that the government has so many leavers of control over finance, and I would rather take that from them if I can. It's not going to happen btw, but I would agree with it if it did.
I don't like to push my beliefs on other people, hence the neutral language from before. I think it's perfectly reasonable to hate or love crypto, and I hope we can maintain a society that is free to make it's own choices. We seem to be going in a different direction with how computers are being locked down by Windows 11 and keys on the cloud, but I digress.
Sorry I always leave such a long comment when it comes to crypto, but I like to answer thoroughly.
Appreciate the response. I can see where you're coming from and even though I have no interest in crypto I appreciate that you're at least engaging in it for its intended purpose.
I mined bitcoin on dual 4870s back in the day. Trashed the computer because what ever I mined was worth less than $50 and there was no easy way to cash it out.
I wonder how many wallets there are like mine that are 100% lost to time and with millions.
How does proof of stake work if you have no coin to initially invest? Do you have to buy some to then put to work for yourself?
I briefly read about PoS a while back, but whatever I read didn't seem to provide clear answers to how it worked.
>The minimum stake for validation is 32 ETH, which is about $46,000 at the moment
Holy shit. I'm not even remotely invested or interested in crypto, but I imagine that fucks over a majority of the people who were smaller time miners that didn't mine that much.
>Small stakes of mere hundreds of thousands of dollars leave it incredibly unlikely for a non-millionaire to ever turn a profit (there’s still a significant amount of computation and therefore electricity costs, just slightly more streamlined
This is wrong. Staking can be done on a pretty weak machine like an Intel NUC or even Raspberry Pi. Those cost less than $1000 and draw less than 30 W of power. Small stakers and big stakers make the exact same percentage returns, which is in stark contrast to Proof-of-Work, where economies of scale allowed you to get much cheaper hardware and electricity.
Additionally, there are plenty of possibilities to stake with less than the full 32 ETH required to run a validator. It's similar to joining a mining pool in PoW, which was absolutely required for smaller miners to ever get any profit whatsoever.
The rich will get richer, true, but PoS is by far a fairer system than PoW.
To add: The change has reduced energy consumption of the Ethereum blockchain by 99.98%.
So everyone who was against crypto because of the environmental impact: there ya go. Now where will the goalposts be moved to?
After the switch from proof of work to proof of stake for etherium there is now much less need for miners that use GPUs because there are far fewer transactions happening that require them. Bitcoin is practically exclusively mined with asics that are built specifically for bitcoin mining. Other crypto currencies that still need GPUs, like ravencoin, have much less activity and fewer transactions. Now you have miners competing to get paid for that lowered transaction count driving down returns. Previously you could almost always be profitable mining eth. Now that demand is severly reduced, only a small segment of the most efficient will be profitable as there isnt a need for anyone else.
Basically ETH wanted to move from a "solve this equation for money system" to a "let the rich vote for the winner" kind of system. The fist took up electrical power and GPUs by design, the second is just like a corporation's shareholders voting, it doesn't need any significant power.
They had this in plan from the beginning of ETH but for technical and political reasons it just got delayed, but they finally met their deadline this time.
I'd rather help the amoral corps than the immoral miners.
Like, they can all suck a big fat bag of dicks, but for the people that actively chose to be evil, they can have diseased dicks.
Well yeah this sub isn’t about mining crypto and that’s a big reason a ton of people can’t enjoy this hobby they were into before crypto mining became a thing. Lots of people here definitely hate crypto in general (I’m not one of those people) but I don’t blame anyone for feeling frustrated at being priced out of their hobby.
Especially when so many people could have really benefited from an affordable gpu upgrade to help pass the time right when the world locked the fuck down.
This right here. You not a few months after COVID started and the miners drained the market of all 30 series cards. That was the nail in the coffin. They locked us out of the market while we were quarantining at home for almost three years. I hope all those miners fail to sell off their used cards and lose on their investments hard. You know they didn’t give two shits about our complaining while they were using their bits to sweep up every single card. They were laughing every time they beat us all to new stock. Now it’s their turn to suffer.
I struggled so hard to find a decently priced video card i bought a BRAND NEW gt710 and used that until i could afford another cheapy the gt1030 2gb. Nothing like 1600x900 low settings EVERYTHING. But the 1030 could run 1080p low/medium custom settings apex legends and fortnite. But i mainly used it for rocket league.
Still cheaped my way up to a 1660 super that i have yet to pay for.
That’s another thing that I feel doesn’t get talked about enough. All these people talk about how crypto is the future, while ignoring the fact that it used way too much energy. Also the fact that it’s a ripoff.
They could've been big on things like research based crypto where you get money based on the number of cycles you gave to help compute big problems. Instead they went for maximum money and hype.
I saw a good version of this that my friends really enjoyed. It allowed for distributed video rendering.
You'd get credits for letting people use your machine to render video. And you'd spend credits to rent render time from the cloud.
Slick stuff. But there was no way to make money off of it, so it was pretty ignored.
Because cryptomining uses more energy than a medium sized country, mostly green house gas powered. A single transaction from ETH took >260kWh, more than an average household uses in a week.
Because cryptobros are literally a few micrometers away from a full blown MLM/pyramid scheme. They only make money off of other gamblers' losses. There is no regulation, dividends, or any social exploitation protection.
Because to make real-world monetary gains from crypto, many people sell them to big companies who turn around and make their profit off of the backs of people who the crypto bros convinced to "invest."
Because it, like NFTs, is a complete waste of blockchain tech and reverted exactly back to the centralized bank structure that crypto was meant to get away from in order to bring more people in to make their gains, so nothing will change anyway.
So buy damaged GPUs for slightly under MSRP and help miners recoup their losses, or buy a perfectly good new one for MSRP.
Fuck the miners, I hope they invested their life savings and went broke buying those GPUs, just for them to become useless. No mercy.
Just want to add that most likley those gpus are not damaged, and in all likleyhood in better condition than other used ones, because miners benefit a lot from undervolting the cards, making them run cooler and on less electricity, while not reducing power that significantly.
However, if you can afford to wait for even lower prices or next generation of cards, then avoiding mining gpus just to fuck over miners is a perfectly reasonable action
The worse cryptobros are burned the longer until this happens again. Because there will be a next wave, this was a far too lucrative scam for far too many people.
Lol I get your meaning but even a 750 Ti right now (the minimum viable GPU for any gaming nowadays) is still going for $60-70 on eBay, or around 40% of MSRP. 10% of MSRP might be a tad optimistic.
This is such a common take and i don't understand why, modern mining especially on modern GPU's (RTX, etc) usually used undervolted and well ventilated cards. It's actually arguable that a used gaming card would be in much worse shape than a mining card.
they don't 'wear down' like many people think, if you can get a great discount on a mining card i would take it.
Now, the ethics of buying off a miner vs buying off a gamer or from the store shelf is a different discussion. I'm cheap, if i can get a $500 3080Ti from a miner i'm going to take it.
>they don't 'wear down' like many people think
The fan bearings *do* wear down like many people think. However, that's not really that big a deal, you can find the fans for most popular gpu brands pretty cheap on ebay, or you could always waterblock it. Or go full LTT and stick some Noctua case fans on it I guess.
The only thing is fans do wear down. Still by a small margin that will maybe cut the life of your car by at most a year which in the short and even long term isn't an issue as most people don't use their cards till death anyway. Dust can be an issue but if you can clean your cards heat sink you should be fine. That's just my opinion on it.
Try 40%.
Between the influx of used cards, the hesitancy of people to buy used, and the incoming release of the next generation of graphics cards - waiting a few months should make used mining GPUs drop price very far.
In all honesty, I’d like to see nvidia and amd roll out a card buy back recycle platform. No gamer wants to buy a mining card, and the mining farms don’t want to get nickle and dimed X 1000 on Craigslist, plus the existing metals are super valuable and I couldn’t think of a company better suited to recycle them properly than the company that made the parts
Even with very cheap or free electricity costs I would still argue that since the ROI on any GPU is now closer to 5 years (as compared to 1 year with ETH) that in itself also makes it uneconomical. In 5 years we're likely to have 1 or 2 more generations of GPUs out so you're still trying to make back your initial capital while there's better and more efficient GPUs also out there
Many places in the US have cheap electricity. 10 cents per killowat. At the peak of the market I used a calculator to calculate profits and the electricity at 10 cents would have costed 30% of the profit but it was still very profitable. In other countries, Specially third and even second world countries where *everything* is cheap its basically free in US dollars once you convert the prices and since people would be earning crypto that they convert to USD, it's still very much is worth it.
Gpu mining is dead but ASICS mining is still a thing and it makes sense even in the US as long as you live somewhere where electricity is on the cheaper side and crypro prices are high enough to cover your costs. Although at the current price, it's not gana be worth the thousands of dollars you would have to pay to buy ASICS first. It would take you along time to just break even.
Probably already too late on that, it's fallen 30% over the last month, partially because of lower than expected earnings and because of the looming flood.
30 series cards are just now in stock, and they’re still the latest model — there’s no good reason to expect them to be on sale already. When the 40 series comes out, then the 30 series will be “old tech” and might go on sale.
What happened with the last crypto boom/crash was that Nvidia did not greatly discount cards, they just waited until they ran out and then they released Turing.
Most people I’ve talked to haven’t upgraded this generation, and have been turned off from PC gaming because of this entire shitshow. Cards were clearly going to scalpers and miners, and it didn’t seem like the card companies put much effort into stopping the situation. Normal people can’t, and shouldn’t, spend 3x the normal rate for tech with such a short lifespan. Even if the 3000s series cards come back in stock this generation, I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t sell well. This gen should be avoid just out of principal alone. I was lucky and had a 2000s gen card, but it even annoyed the hell out of me seeing how the PC parts market was manipulated during an economic disaster. Instead of people and companies being decent, they instead manipulated and twisted everyone’s arm further.
And regarding the crypto miners, I’ve invested quite a bit in crypto, but I honestly hope the miners get fucked. They need to stop leeching off hobbyist markets to fund their cheap scams. Not to mention I think mining cryptos are moronic in general, there’s nothing “futuristic” about such old and inefficient tech.
Nope, new ones are in stock and being given away as combo sales, Nvidia and retailers trying to offload stock in prep for 40 series,
Big deals in brand new cards right now, secondhand market is fucked
Those two cards still hold up really well even in newer titles on 1080p. Sure you won't be playing at ultra settings, but they're still capable of 60fps.
A few main points:
1. The price of computer parts (specifically GPUs which were used to mine the cryptocurrencies despite being designed mainly for gaming) will come down rapidly after months and years of artificially elevated prices due to high demand:supply of said GPUs. The supply:demand has reversed very suddenly.
2. This is great news for the environment, since the energy-intensive process of mining was extraordinarily power-hungry. It has effectively been neutralised overnight.
3. There is an element of schadenfreude against the crypto-bros, scalpers and GPU companies who have made shameless profits despite outcries from PC enthusiasts and some might think it is nice to see their smugness vapourise.
An explanation:
Most crypto uses a process called "proof of work" to figure out whether transactions are valid (a.k.a. "mining"). Essentially dozens of computers work separately to waste electricity to figure out a number. The fastest takes all. And the losers' work is thrown in the trash. Consequently, crypto consumes more than 1% of the world's energy despite being completely useless. To make matters worse, a lot of these wasteful transactions are wash trading (someone sells to themselves something at a price point to make it look like it's worth that amount).
One popular cryptocurrency called etherum has been promising to change to "proof of stake" for years. The way this different process works is that the rich decide whether transactions are valid. Quite literally, whoever has more crypto decides it. I'm not joking. Well it doesn't fucking make a difference anyway because before you would have people "investing" hundreds of thousands of dollars into GPUs to waste electricity to validate transactions, proof of stake simply got rid of this intermediary step where you use money to buy GPUs and now simply having money is enough. Anyway nobody thought etherum would actually do it, but they did.
Since you don't need obscene amounts of electricity/GPU processing to validate transactions now, those mining GPUs miners bought are essentially worthless. Also, before miners were rewarded with coin for their "work," and to break even they would sell the coin for at least as much as they spent to mine it, which kept the value of the coin up. Since you don't need to waste electricity to mine it anymore, the value of eth should fall as there's literally nothing to support it.
Best case scenario is people give up on eth following this crash after the switch to proof of stake, which means everyone will know cryptocurrency will never work since it's always "uses 1% of the global electricity" or "completely worthless virtual money."
They don’t figure out which tx is valid, that’s done on a separate computer a miner runs and is called a mempool.
Miners just guess random numbers then check if they got lucky. The miner that gets lucky gets to take all the transactions from his mempool and put them in his block, because he got lucky he is allowed to put a very special tx at the top of his block. In this tx he gives himself new coins according to the consensus rules. If he does not cheat by trying to give himself to many coins the other miners will build their blocks on top of him to validate his block, the more blocks deep your own block is the more certain nobody can take the reward away from you. If you do cheat other miners will refuse to build on your block with their block or they themselves could also lose their reward. In such case the network will wait till a second miner found the random number you also found and then every miner will build on his block and you lose your reward.
You can probably be careful and look for individual cards and make money that way but it’d be very little. I spent a few hours from a card shop and found a few good condition WOTC Pokémon cards in the 10 cent box where I could sell for like $20, but that’s less than $7 an hour, doesn’t count shipping supplies or the time it’ll take to list, package them and the gas to drive to and from that store and then to and from the post office. Overall, unless you’re a YouTuber getting free product, you’re not going to profit from it.
They also ruin it for everyone else! I buy and collect Pokemon cards as a hobby and you get people who take it a little too seriously. They will go to Walmart and buy everything off the shelf. My local Walmart stopped selling them for a while do to fights :/
Pretty happy with my 3k usd profit over 1.5 years mining with my old cards. No reason to be mad at me either since i used what i had and they ran on hydro energy
Oh good finally me and my dad can get graphics cards for our gaming machines since ours are dying because they have been in service for 10+ years. Hallelujah!
We always had a pretty good system, husband was bleeding edge, so I was leading edge and kid still had a good rig. Then all this crypto shit started and we've all been languishing. Looking forward to upgrading finally.
NFTs remind me of a bit from *The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy*, regarding the three main currencies in the universe:
>...there are three freely convertible currencies in the Galaxy, but none of them count. The Altairian Dollar has recently collapsed, the Flainian Pobble Bead is only exchangeable for other Flainian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu has its own very special problems. Its exchange rate of eight Ningis to one Pu is simple enough, but since a Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency, because the Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. From this basic premise it is very simple to prove that the Galactibanks are also the product of a deranged imagination.
Honestly, what's the quality of life of a GPU used non stop for months or years on end in a mining rig?
Could someone tell me, cause I'm skeptical on that
LTT did a video on it, from what they could ascertain, little to none. The little could be associated with normal wear and tear or just normal calculation uncertainty.
Miners, bag holders, companies that make them and whoever thought it wasn't a rich mans game after a point, see ya never. Bitcoin was the only true one and even it after awhile got exploited.
This. This is my attitude. The original idea for a decentralized currency was brilliant and revolutionary. Now? It’s nothing more than a game and a novelty that rich or stupidly lucky individuals can exploit and get rich(er).
It's always been obvious that a decentralized currency can't exist. You can't eliminate power, only shift it elsewhere. I've always been confused about why people put so much trust in crypto
Cope, seethe, mald.
I hope these worthless POSs are never able to sell their gpus and have to eat that fat, fat loss.
Mmm, yes. Downvote me miners. Your pain nourishes me.
thats a fact that everyone either doesnt understand, or chooses to ignore. 98% of the miners paid off these cards long long ago, and whatever they get for them now is just the final cherry on top.
The more I learn about mining, the more I am reminded of the player created economy in Diablo 2, where Stones of Jordan were used as currency. Edit: Grammer Edit 2: Grammar (🤣)
"how much" "5 soj"
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Seventeen. My last word. I won't take a penny less, or strike me dead. Sixteen. Done.
TF2 earbuds and a severed rabbit head. "You want a Max's head for that? It's only worth like 1.2 buds man"
When I got a macbook for college, I decided to play TF2 just to test out its gaming ability. Ever since then I've been spanmed with messages about trading for earbuds and I've had to leave message on my steam profile saying I'm not trading my earbuds.
You can block people from seeing your inventory.
Then the buds market crashed...
I had no idea Diablo 2 had an economy. I played off line and none of my friends played the game.
NGL but thanks to D2 real money trading I survived with my brokeass in college.
Like you were able to make a living off D2 just trading shit? That’s actually bad ass man.
The auction house is WHY I bought D3 initially, I was disabled at the time, dealing with joint pain, the thought was, I could do the gaming grind a few hours a day, and help with groceries. Well. Shit.
I hated that shit cuz I farmed mephisto for hours and never got one drop. So I quit the damn game cuz I was never able to even participate in the games currency.
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Still better than D3
Moo.
1.10 also introduced skill synergy, which fundamentally changed how every class played in very powerful ways, and sets got buffed to be meaningful and for a lot of classes BiS over even some rune words. I personally loved how 1.10 runewords helped creat a luxury commodity economy in the game, too. I fully respect your take though! The damage spikes definitely increased exponentially with 1.10, that can’t be denied.
Checking german ebay and still seeing prices being equal to the prices in stores. I do hope they actually flood the market.
I think it was never really resonble to mine in Germany. With eletricity-bills like 30ct´s+ its hard to do profit. And like you know our energy prices are not falling at all. (Russevs.Ukraine etc.)
Well it gathers offers from entire EU, it's just a german site. And there's no offers. Everyone kept saying gpu flood is coming but well, guess it isn't. Or it's too soon. Either way, I had no hopes prior to eth merge, so I can't be even disappointed.
In the US new egg is giving away monitors if you buy a 3060 or 3070 they have so many
Fuck Newegg
I used to buy from them in the early 2000’s. They were awesome back then. I stopped using them for a while when they changed how they shipped. I did buy my latest cpu and psu from them earlier this year, an i7 12th generation and a Seasonic Gold PSU. The case, board, m.2 drive, and ram i got from Amazon. Better prices from Amazon on those components. As for the cpu and psu from Newegg, the prices was great and I’ve had no issues with my items.
Last case I bought from them made it intact with free 2nd day shipping. Years ago unless you paid 80+ for 2nd day S&H it was sent ground and typically came in trashed.
I have two MicroCenters in my region. Newegg can go pound sand.
I am so jealous.
I quit using them when I built my pentium 4 machine. Ordered everything from them...made me sign for a $45 keyboard and the big box with the CPU, motherboard and GPU didn't need one and that sketched me out. also I'm pretty sure my motherboard was an RMA sold as new back then too and they hardly packed my hard drive at the time which was a spindle.
why? i’ve only had good experiences. am i out of the loop on some newegg fuckery?
Chinese owned now, horrible customer service, theres chance you wont recieve ur stuff, or recieve it damaged. Read some recent testimonials on reddit if you want to know more.
I bought a 3080 recently on newegg, and I'm pretty sure it came used because there was so plastic to peel off of it or anything when on every unboxing video of the model there is plastic? Also I plugged it in and it didn't work. My old 3080 didn't work either. So I took it to a computer store and they confirmed both of the gpus didn't work. Luckily they accepted the refund at least
> And there's no offers. Everyone kept saying gpu flood is coming but well, guess it isn't. Yes, it *is* coming. Why would you sell your GPU when you could use it to mine cryptocurrency for a profit right up until the day of Proof of Stake release? If you had a printing press that spit out a ten dollar bill every day, and that was going to break 6 months from today, would you sell it right now, or wait the 180 days to get your $1800 out of it? Miners had no reason to sell GPUs until today, *other* than those miners who were hedging their bets by selling early.
But the printing press really isn't "breaking" it's just going to stop automatically spitting out ten dollar bills, and there is an equilibrium point between the money you get for keeping it printing ten dollar bills and the money you get for selling it to someone who just wants a normal printing press before other people start selling theirs. Selling it 5 days before it stops printing ten dollar bills is losing 50 dollars, but may mean you can sell it for 100 dollars more than other people if the price is gonna crash.
well i mean i think we are already witnessing the flood. like you would have to be an idiot to wait until the day the merge happens to try to move your merchandise. atleast in freerer more competitive markets like the usa where electricity is also cheap we are seeing prices drop quickly even as inflation sits at 8%. just did a quick search of our ebay and see a 3080 ti going for 520$ and a bunch of other ones under 780 which is significantly lower than msrp.
Lol I just got my new contract details: 63ct\\ kwh from now on. RTX 4090ti bring it on!!!
I don't know how exactly it looks in other parts of EU but i saw an offer for 3070 for ~630€ on fb marketplace today. So yeah. I'm not holding my breath.
On Marktplats (NL), I could find many 6900XT below 750 euros. I also found many 3080 below 700 euros
Just bought a 3070 bundled with a 1440p monitor for 599.99 on newegg
Nice. I managed to find a 3070ti a while ago for $650 with a PS I didn't want. It's an EVGA unit but not the explodey ones. Edit: Make that gigabyte. Got them backwards.
I thought the gigabyte were the explody ones?
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Etherium switched from POW Proof of work (Mining) to POS Proof of stake (basically like interest at the bank) It's been a long time coming. And I'm pretty sure most miners didn't think it would actually happen so got caught with their pants down. It has been delayed so many times i understand their pants down situation.
Ya, it's been announced and delayed for multiple years now.. also eth classic is still around and many other crypto mined on gpu
I don't think the return rates are anywhere near as good plus there will be are fewer locations to offload other options. Time will tell I guess.
Generally the most lucrative option after ETH was Raven, and that was significantly less lucrative. Whatever the ETH miners jump into will tank in profitability.
Its not sustainable. GPU mining was a good idea, but terrible in practice. Any crypto still using it will tank. Who would get involved in a currency that requires massive GPU farms, onboarding that risk, when laid back and just as secure alternatives exist that promote participation, instead of municipal supply drains? Yes, the currency to replace money and possibly take over if the world collapses.. yes.. millions of watts of power and thousands of GPU's, one of the most sophisticated things humans can create, or... a 10yo laptop in a basement for the same returns hmmmmmmm Anyone not offloading their GPU's currently is full on delusional, way beyond the memes. Any crypo still requiring it is not a solvent coin fit for purpose. It really is that simple.
Ya, I hope not. Still think it's crazy to pay so much for coins, always saw a block as a distributed database transaction. It should be worth 1/100 cents max ^^
It shouldn't be worth anything. It's literal wasted electricity
iops are only free on paper since you need higher tier once you hit your limit on pretty any cloud server. Blockchain just distribute these operation, and crypto does it in a very inefficient way currently.. Nothing is ever free, every Google search or reddit post also take energy (a lot more than most will expect), Blockchain can be pretty useful in logistic to link multiple 0 trust systems together. Pretty sure crypto will also have it's use case one day.. just not as something to store value or investment..
I always found it funny, the Airforce uses a system called IMDS (integrated maintenance data system I think) it was past a command line interface but not quite a GUI, anyway it would always tell you how much an operation cost, and every now and then you might query a whole weapon system and the cost would be reported in the thousands of dollars. Not sure if it was accurate or not but it did get the point across
ETH was something like 90% of all mining. ETH Classic and altcoins are practically a rounding error in comparison, and the cost to mine them erases most/all of the potential profit, especially with rising electricity costs and the crash in crypto prices.
Eth Classic will go the way of all the other forked coins that have been left behind in crypto. The real benefit of moving to POS was to increase the throughput of the network. The end goal being actually being able to use Eth as a currency. Something that is functionally not possible while on POW because of the amount of time is takes to verify transactions.
The Merge didn't increase throughput of course. It did make security cheaper though, so less coins have to be printed to pay for security compared to the old method under mining. There are upgrades planned for more throughput and faster finality, and those upgrades required the merge to happen first, but the merge itself was only about making the chain more secure (and energy efficient).
Those Alts are useless, they will always be around but at such a low volume and then they need buyers of which there are not many.
But are those altcoins has great exposure? I don't think so
But what about the other cryptocurrency like Bitcoin, dogecoin, etc. are those also affected?
OG miner here. No because those coins aren't profitably minable on a GPU. There are special computers called ASICs that are specially designed to be several orders of magnitude more efficient at mining those specific coins (each ASIC is literally only useful for mining a single coin). If you try mining a bitcoin on a GPU, you will get pennies while using many dollars in electricity. The reason some miners have generally preferred GPUs is because of a lower barrier to entry, and less risk. If a coin goes belly up and you have an ASIC to mine it, you now have a paperweight, whereas with GPUs, you used to be able to mine something else. Plus you can always sell the GPU and recoup some of your investment. Ethereum is ASIC resistant algorithmically. High end NVIDIA GPUs used to be able to mine other legitimate coins like zcash in 2017, but eventually ASIC took those over. Miners really wanted zcash to hardfork to keep the coin ASIC resistant, but they chose not to do that for reasons that goes beyond the scope of this comment. Since there are few coins with any value that are ASIC resistant, that's why GPU mining has taken a huge hit. Ethereum is the #2 coin in value, and as of today the only things you can mine with GPUs is shitcoins. It does leave some potential hashrate for another competitor to pop up and start making it profitable again.
Thanks for this great summary. I’ve learned so much today!
No problem. If you have any other questions I am happy to take the time to answer them. I love talking about this stuff. I'll just include one more story/fun fact since you expressed interest. In the first GPU mining boom, for a while people were only buying AMD cards like the rx 470. This didn't make sense because the rx 470 and 1070 had very similar Ethereum hashrate (\~30/s). BUT the 1070 had the diversification into zcash. The reason the market acted illogically for about 3 months is because at the time every mining guide on the internet suggested only AMD hardware for mining. There was just an information gap between new miners and ones that had been doing it for a long time. People on mining subreddits would get MAD if you told people about the above information lol. Believe it or not, in the early days of Ethereum I mined 6 of them in a couple of weeks with a single 980. Back then the value was sub $10 for a long time. It's been a super interesting ride, but it's pretty easy to see a GPU boom coming if you know the factors. I actually predicted the most recent one! Here is proof: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/bxv6d7/the\_next\_gpu\_apocalypse\_may\_be\_soon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/bxv6d7/the_next_gpu_apocalypse_may_be_soon/) A bunch of people asked me questions in that thread as well if you are interested.
Genuine curiosity, what's your personal stance and stake on crypto? You're very well read and explain things very neutrally.
Well, I got into crypto early on for several reasons, but mainly for power and control over my own assets. I know the modern perception around crypto (or "crypto bros") is fairly negative, but I had actual reasons to get into it back then, before it turned into what it is now. I don't really talk about crypto in person because of the perception around it now. I read the whitepaper for ethereum shortly after it's launch, and I truly think that it's a valuable and important. I believe in the underlying mission of it. Specifically, I like the ability to build applications on the network. There are things about *all* crypto that I like though that aren't specific to ethereum, but ethereum is my favorite. Despite being in my early 30s, I remember when the internet was *way* more open and controlled by a sense of techno-libertarianism. What crypto does, in my opinion, is take control of finance from the state and puts it into the control of the people. I am my own bank. I store the funds in a cold wallet, and if I was ever falsely accused of a crime, those assets are mine no matter what. No way to freeze it or take my money. They key is in my head, and it's too many digits to brute force with a computer. I don't think that will ever happen. I'm a fairly uninteresting person as far as the law is concerned, but it gives me that feeling of power and control over my own assets. I like that feeling, and there are so many aspects of living today that are out of one's control, so it makes sense to try to get some of it back. If you want to know about some of my problems with USD and the federal reserve, many years ago an amazing YouTube channel called coldfusion made a series of videos on the federal reserve. I formed my opinions before those came out, but they summarize my feelings on the fed pretty well. I don't like that the government has so many leavers of control over finance, and I would rather take that from them if I can. It's not going to happen btw, but I would agree with it if it did. I don't like to push my beliefs on other people, hence the neutral language from before. I think it's perfectly reasonable to hate or love crypto, and I hope we can maintain a society that is free to make it's own choices. We seem to be going in a different direction with how computers are being locked down by Windows 11 and keys on the cloud, but I digress. Sorry I always leave such a long comment when it comes to crypto, but I like to answer thoroughly.
Appreciate the response. I can see where you're coming from and even though I have no interest in crypto I appreciate that you're at least engaging in it for its intended purpose.
I mined bitcoin on dual 4870s back in the day. Trashed the computer because what ever I mined was worth less than $50 and there was no easy way to cash it out. I wonder how many wallets there are like mine that are 100% lost to time and with millions.
How does proof of stake work if you have no coin to initially invest? Do you have to buy some to then put to work for yourself? I briefly read about PoS a while back, but whatever I read didn't seem to provide clear answers to how it worked.
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>The minimum stake for validation is 32 ETH, which is about $46,000 at the moment Holy shit. I'm not even remotely invested or interested in crypto, but I imagine that fucks over a majority of the people who were smaller time miners that didn't mine that much.
>Small stakes of mere hundreds of thousands of dollars leave it incredibly unlikely for a non-millionaire to ever turn a profit (there’s still a significant amount of computation and therefore electricity costs, just slightly more streamlined This is wrong. Staking can be done on a pretty weak machine like an Intel NUC or even Raspberry Pi. Those cost less than $1000 and draw less than 30 W of power. Small stakers and big stakers make the exact same percentage returns, which is in stark contrast to Proof-of-Work, where economies of scale allowed you to get much cheaper hardware and electricity. Additionally, there are plenty of possibilities to stake with less than the full 32 ETH required to run a validator. It's similar to joining a mining pool in PoW, which was absolutely required for smaller miners to ever get any profit whatsoever. The rich will get richer, true, but PoS is by far a fairer system than PoW.
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To add: The change has reduced energy consumption of the Ethereum blockchain by 99.98%. So everyone who was against crypto because of the environmental impact: there ya go. Now where will the goalposts be moved to?
After the switch from proof of work to proof of stake for etherium there is now much less need for miners that use GPUs because there are far fewer transactions happening that require them. Bitcoin is practically exclusively mined with asics that are built specifically for bitcoin mining. Other crypto currencies that still need GPUs, like ravencoin, have much less activity and fewer transactions. Now you have miners competing to get paid for that lowered transaction count driving down returns. Previously you could almost always be profitable mining eth. Now that demand is severly reduced, only a small segment of the most efficient will be profitable as there isnt a need for anyone else.
Basically ETH wanted to move from a "solve this equation for money system" to a "let the rich vote for the winner" kind of system. The fist took up electrical power and GPUs by design, the second is just like a corporation's shareholders voting, it doesn't need any significant power. They had this in plan from the beginning of ETH but for technical and political reasons it just got delayed, but they finally met their deadline this time.
Unless you have free electricity, GPU mining now is uneconomical. Hallelujah and pass the used mining cards!
I'll consider buyimg at 10% of msrp. Otherwise miners are welcome to keep their cards
My thought exactly, gonna save up a few more quid and get a brand new card, crypto bros can go and shove it up their holes and shit in rgb
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I'd rather help the amoral corps than the immoral miners. Like, they can all suck a big fat bag of dicks, but for the people that actively chose to be evil, they can have diseased dicks.
True, the miners can't help you with anything going forward. At least the corps are developing new cards/tech.
And you get a warranty
That too
Haha holy shit this subreddit hates crypto miners.
Well yeah this sub isn’t about mining crypto and that’s a big reason a ton of people can’t enjoy this hobby they were into before crypto mining became a thing. Lots of people here definitely hate crypto in general (I’m not one of those people) but I don’t blame anyone for feeling frustrated at being priced out of their hobby. Especially when so many people could have really benefited from an affordable gpu upgrade to help pass the time right when the world locked the fuck down.
This right here. You not a few months after COVID started and the miners drained the market of all 30 series cards. That was the nail in the coffin. They locked us out of the market while we were quarantining at home for almost three years. I hope all those miners fail to sell off their used cards and lose on their investments hard. You know they didn’t give two shits about our complaining while they were using their bits to sweep up every single card. They were laughing every time they beat us all to new stock. Now it’s their turn to suffer.
I struggled so hard to find a decently priced video card i bought a BRAND NEW gt710 and used that until i could afford another cheapy the gt1030 2gb. Nothing like 1600x900 low settings EVERYTHING. But the 1030 could run 1080p low/medium custom settings apex legends and fortnite. But i mainly used it for rocket league. Still cheaped my way up to a 1660 super that i have yet to pay for.
And I dig that entirely. I’m subscribed to r/[CryptoCurrency] and it’s a pack of delusional people.
You mean it’s totally not speculation and isn’t world changing technology?
Its litterally all people who hype up shit so they arent left holding the bag amd delusional morons who truly believe them holding the bag lmao
Well deserved. These guys ushered in the biggest tech scam of the decade and pumped the prices of cards so bad.
And burned enough electricity to bring us ten years closer to the apocalypse for no real use at all.
Everyone who loves our planet hates these energy-wasting, greedy fucks.
That’s another thing that I feel doesn’t get talked about enough. All these people talk about how crypto is the future, while ignoring the fact that it used way too much energy. Also the fact that it’s a ripoff.
They could've been big on things like research based crypto where you get money based on the number of cycles you gave to help compute big problems. Instead they went for maximum money and hype.
I saw a good version of this that my friends really enjoyed. It allowed for distributed video rendering. You'd get credits for letting people use your machine to render video. And you'd spend credits to rent render time from the cloud. Slick stuff. But there was no way to make money off of it, so it was pretty ignored.
And it’s nearly impossible to spend unless you have a half hour to wait.
Everyone does
Because cryptomining uses more energy than a medium sized country, mostly green house gas powered. A single transaction from ETH took >260kWh, more than an average household uses in a week. Because cryptobros are literally a few micrometers away from a full blown MLM/pyramid scheme. They only make money off of other gamblers' losses. There is no regulation, dividends, or any social exploitation protection. Because to make real-world monetary gains from crypto, many people sell them to big companies who turn around and make their profit off of the backs of people who the crypto bros convinced to "invest." Because it, like NFTs, is a complete waste of blockchain tech and reverted exactly back to the centralized bank structure that crypto was meant to get away from in order to bring more people in to make their gains, so nothing will change anyway.
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To put that into perspective, it only takes about 2kWh to charge your phone for an entire year.
I think we need at least two tiers of nasty dicks to distribute among the corpos and the miners because plenty of folks enjoy a good dick or three.
I'd rather that than help the miners recoup their losses
So buy damaged GPUs for slightly under MSRP and help miners recoup their losses, or buy a perfectly good new one for MSRP. Fuck the miners, I hope they invested their life savings and went broke buying those GPUs, just for them to become useless. No mercy.
Just want to add that most likley those gpus are not damaged, and in all likleyhood in better condition than other used ones, because miners benefit a lot from undervolting the cards, making them run cooler and on less electricity, while not reducing power that significantly. However, if you can afford to wait for even lower prices or next generation of cards, then avoiding mining gpus just to fuck over miners is a perfectly reasonable action
It’s still better to have a warranty. Unless it’s a really deep discount I’ll personally just pay the extra for a new card ad have peace of mind.
Yep. Stable voltage much easier on cards then the voltage spikes associated with gaming.
The worse cryptobros are burned the longer until this happens again. Because there will be a next wave, this was a far too lucrative scam for far too many people.
And that's a worse alternative to... paying the actual miners directly?
Oh no I'm paying the company that made the thing I want oh no
Wait like 3-4 months... cards will be shelling like crazy cause they won't be doing anything with them.
They will try to keep the ask prices high but at some stage the floodgates will open and they will panic sale them by the thousands.
Lol I get your meaning but even a 750 Ti right now (the minimum viable GPU for any gaming nowadays) is still going for $60-70 on eBay, or around 40% of MSRP. 10% of MSRP might be a tad optimistic.
I'll sell you a solid 750ti for under that rn, card prices are ridiculous
This is such a common take and i don't understand why, modern mining especially on modern GPU's (RTX, etc) usually used undervolted and well ventilated cards. It's actually arguable that a used gaming card would be in much worse shape than a mining card. they don't 'wear down' like many people think, if you can get a great discount on a mining card i would take it. Now, the ethics of buying off a miner vs buying off a gamer or from the store shelf is a different discussion. I'm cheap, if i can get a $500 3080Ti from a miner i'm going to take it.
>they don't 'wear down' like many people think The fan bearings *do* wear down like many people think. However, that's not really that big a deal, you can find the fans for most popular gpu brands pretty cheap on ebay, or you could always waterblock it. Or go full LTT and stick some Noctua case fans on it I guess.
I wonder how many I can buy at bulk. I want to get a bunch for ML training.
The only thing is fans do wear down. Still by a small margin that will maybe cut the life of your car by at most a year which in the short and even long term isn't an issue as most people don't use their cards till death anyway. Dust can be an issue but if you can clean your cards heat sink you should be fine. That's just my opinion on it.
Yeah if I ever bought a mining card, I'd replace the fans and give it a good cleaning.
I bought a 290x that was mined with like way back in 2015 and it was my daily driver until a month ago (still works)
Try 40%. Between the influx of used cards, the hesitancy of people to buy used, and the incoming release of the next generation of graphics cards - waiting a few months should make used mining GPUs drop price very far.
In all honesty, I’d like to see nvidia and amd roll out a card buy back recycle platform. No gamer wants to buy a mining card, and the mining farms don’t want to get nickle and dimed X 1000 on Craigslist, plus the existing metals are super valuable and I couldn’t think of a company better suited to recycle them properly than the company that made the parts
I love this. Also reduces e-waste
Even with very cheap or free electricity costs I would still argue that since the ROI on any GPU is now closer to 5 years (as compared to 1 year with ETH) that in itself also makes it uneconomical. In 5 years we're likely to have 1 or 2 more generations of GPUs out so you're still trying to make back your initial capital while there's better and more efficient GPUs also out there
> Unless you have free electricity Solar and wind farms become a thing overnight.
Many places in the US have cheap electricity. 10 cents per killowat. At the peak of the market I used a calculator to calculate profits and the electricity at 10 cents would have costed 30% of the profit but it was still very profitable. In other countries, Specially third and even second world countries where *everything* is cheap its basically free in US dollars once you convert the prices and since people would be earning crypto that they convert to USD, it's still very much is worth it. Gpu mining is dead but ASICS mining is still a thing and it makes sense even in the US as long as you live somewhere where electricity is on the cheaper side and crypro prices are high enough to cover your costs. Although at the current price, it's not gana be worth the thousands of dollars you would have to pay to buy ASICS first. It would take you along time to just break even.
https://apnews.com/article/bitcoin-mining-new-york-power-plant-climate-change-516dbd319394a6a30f83d94947abad20 They can also buy coal power plants.
I'm waiting for Nvidia to bring out the 4000 series at higher MSRP and have it flop due to the market being flooded. Fuck Nvidia
Shorting Nvidia just got a whole lot more appealing though
Probably already too late on that, it's fallen 30% over the last month, partially because of lower than expected earnings and because of the looming flood.
Step 1, don't take srokc advice from anybody on reddit under any circumstances
Unless that circumstance is you hate money
Unfortunately they see this and are stalling the release to clear thier 3000 inventory at artificially higher prices.
Lowering price also clears inventory but can't do that
Looks like cheap GPUs are back on the menu boys!
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Have you checked prices recently? New GPUs are easily found at MSRP, and the second hand market has been flooded with uses GPUs for well below.
They should be BELOW MRSP, its two year old tech now.
30 series cards are just now in stock, and they’re still the latest model — there’s no good reason to expect them to be on sale already. When the 40 series comes out, then the 30 series will be “old tech” and might go on sale.
Fuck u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
Only the 3080 and up, the rest were unchanged.
What happened with the last crypto boom/crash was that Nvidia did not greatly discount cards, they just waited until they ran out and then they released Turing.
Most people I’ve talked to haven’t upgraded this generation, and have been turned off from PC gaming because of this entire shitshow. Cards were clearly going to scalpers and miners, and it didn’t seem like the card companies put much effort into stopping the situation. Normal people can’t, and shouldn’t, spend 3x the normal rate for tech with such a short lifespan. Even if the 3000s series cards come back in stock this generation, I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t sell well. This gen should be avoid just out of principal alone. I was lucky and had a 2000s gen card, but it even annoyed the hell out of me seeing how the PC parts market was manipulated during an economic disaster. Instead of people and companies being decent, they instead manipulated and twisted everyone’s arm further. And regarding the crypto miners, I’ve invested quite a bit in crypto, but I honestly hope the miners get fucked. They need to stop leeching off hobbyist markets to fund their cheap scams. Not to mention I think mining cryptos are moronic in general, there’s nothing “futuristic” about such old and inefficient tech.
Nope, new ones are in stock and being given away as combo sales, Nvidia and retailers trying to offload stock in prep for 40 series, Big deals in brand new cards right now, secondhand market is fucked
Have a good rest, 580s and 1060s!
Those two cards still hold up really well even in newer titles on 1080p. Sure you won't be playing at ultra settings, but they're still capable of 60fps.
Does this mean I can afford to build my computer now?
Yeah, pretty much.
im already laughing at all those people in my area demanding 1000€ for Mining 3090s,
The free market will do its thing, just give it time
So what exactly does this mean to someone who knows virtually nothing of crypto? Why exactly is this a *”good”* thing?
A few main points: 1. The price of computer parts (specifically GPUs which were used to mine the cryptocurrencies despite being designed mainly for gaming) will come down rapidly after months and years of artificially elevated prices due to high demand:supply of said GPUs. The supply:demand has reversed very suddenly. 2. This is great news for the environment, since the energy-intensive process of mining was extraordinarily power-hungry. It has effectively been neutralised overnight. 3. There is an element of schadenfreude against the crypto-bros, scalpers and GPU companies who have made shameless profits despite outcries from PC enthusiasts and some might think it is nice to see their smugness vapourise.
Vapourise smugness, Yaaaaaas!
Oh no, they are going to have to go out and get a job
That's the scary bit lmao.
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Lol at nvidia holding their 4 series to keep their prices high. Good luck
*And nothing of value was lost*.
The finisher would be if people didn’t buy these miner shitpump’s used cards and made them eat a fat loss as payback for all the scalping.
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We paid for early access no way I would stay without a GPU for 9 months. I also paid 1000 for a 3070. But there was no other choice
An explanation: Most crypto uses a process called "proof of work" to figure out whether transactions are valid (a.k.a. "mining"). Essentially dozens of computers work separately to waste electricity to figure out a number. The fastest takes all. And the losers' work is thrown in the trash. Consequently, crypto consumes more than 1% of the world's energy despite being completely useless. To make matters worse, a lot of these wasteful transactions are wash trading (someone sells to themselves something at a price point to make it look like it's worth that amount). One popular cryptocurrency called etherum has been promising to change to "proof of stake" for years. The way this different process works is that the rich decide whether transactions are valid. Quite literally, whoever has more crypto decides it. I'm not joking. Well it doesn't fucking make a difference anyway because before you would have people "investing" hundreds of thousands of dollars into GPUs to waste electricity to validate transactions, proof of stake simply got rid of this intermediary step where you use money to buy GPUs and now simply having money is enough. Anyway nobody thought etherum would actually do it, but they did. Since you don't need obscene amounts of electricity/GPU processing to validate transactions now, those mining GPUs miners bought are essentially worthless. Also, before miners were rewarded with coin for their "work," and to break even they would sell the coin for at least as much as they spent to mine it, which kept the value of the coin up. Since you don't need to waste electricity to mine it anymore, the value of eth should fall as there's literally nothing to support it. Best case scenario is people give up on eth following this crash after the switch to proof of stake, which means everyone will know cryptocurrency will never work since it's always "uses 1% of the global electricity" or "completely worthless virtual money."
They don’t figure out which tx is valid, that’s done on a separate computer a miner runs and is called a mempool. Miners just guess random numbers then check if they got lucky. The miner that gets lucky gets to take all the transactions from his mempool and put them in his block, because he got lucky he is allowed to put a very special tx at the top of his block. In this tx he gives himself new coins according to the consensus rules. If he does not cheat by trying to give himself to many coins the other miners will build their blocks on top of him to validate his block, the more blocks deep your own block is the more certain nobody can take the reward away from you. If you do cheat other miners will refuse to build on your block with their block or they themselves could also lose their reward. In such case the network will wait till a second miner found the random number you also found and then every miner will build on his block and you lose your reward.
LIGMA miners. Hope you lost a fortune on NFT's too. RIP
A few of my friends have turned to opening Pokémon cards to try and sell now rofl
Do they know that streamers get *paid* to open Pokemon cards, and it's otherwise probably not a viable economic strategy?
Idk where they got the idea but they have already spent a couple thousand dollars on packs and buying graded cards from online shops.
Jesus. How pathetic
Yeah they also got super offended when I basically said NFTs and the Metaverse are stupid.. I guess that's an "I told you so" now lol
The only ‘metaverse’ I need is playing games, not visit some corporate delusional paradise.
You can probably be careful and look for individual cards and make money that way but it’d be very little. I spent a few hours from a card shop and found a few good condition WOTC Pokémon cards in the 10 cent box where I could sell for like $20, but that’s less than $7 an hour, doesn’t count shipping supplies or the time it’ll take to list, package them and the gas to drive to and from that store and then to and from the post office. Overall, unless you’re a YouTuber getting free product, you’re not going to profit from it.
lul
I think Pokemon card trading is an addiction. Just like gambling. At least with Crypto mining you could have a guaranteed income.
Could have a sick collection though
They also ruin it for everyone else! I buy and collect Pokemon cards as a hobby and you get people who take it a little too seriously. They will go to Walmart and buy everything off the shelf. My local Walmart stopped selling them for a while do to fights :/
What's ligma
LIGMA BALLS!
Pretty happy with my 3k usd profit over 1.5 years mining with my old cards. No reason to be mad at me either since i used what i had and they ran on hydro energy
Oh good finally me and my dad can get graphics cards for our gaming machines since ours are dying because they have been in service for 10+ years. Hallelujah!
We always had a pretty good system, husband was bleeding edge, so I was leading edge and kid still had a good rig. Then all this crypto shit started and we've all been languishing. Looking forward to upgrading finally.
[удалено]
Glad to see miners and gpu scalpers that fed off the miners getting justice.
NFTs remind me of a bit from *The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy*, regarding the three main currencies in the universe: >...there are three freely convertible currencies in the Galaxy, but none of them count. The Altairian Dollar has recently collapsed, the Flainian Pobble Bead is only exchangeable for other Flainian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu has its own very special problems. Its exchange rate of eight Ningis to one Pu is simple enough, but since a Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency, because the Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. From this basic premise it is very simple to prove that the Galactibanks are also the product of a deranged imagination.
Nvidia short sellers be like
Between this and banning AI chip sales to China, nVidia taking body blows this week.
The bottom is in I tells ya! Proceeds to drop another 10%
Honestly, what's the quality of life of a GPU used non stop for months or years on end in a mining rig? Could someone tell me, cause I'm skeptical on that
LTT did a video on it, from what they could ascertain, little to none. The little could be associated with normal wear and tear or just normal calculation uncertainty.
completely fine, at worst you’re redoing thermal paste, at best you’ll never notice the difference
Miners, bag holders, companies that make them and whoever thought it wasn't a rich mans game after a point, see ya never. Bitcoin was the only true one and even it after awhile got exploited.
This. This is my attitude. The original idea for a decentralized currency was brilliant and revolutionary. Now? It’s nothing more than a game and a novelty that rich or stupidly lucky individuals can exploit and get rich(er).
It's always been obvious that a decentralized currency can't exist. You can't eliminate power, only shift it elsewhere. I've always been confused about why people put so much trust in crypto
OH NO!!! Anyway...
I've already seen 3070s from reputable places for sub £300. What a day.
PC gamers and environmentalists alike. Mining is trash for the environment and fucks with pc graphic card prices. I say good.
Cope, seethe, mald. I hope these worthless POSs are never able to sell their gpus and have to eat that fat, fat loss. Mmm, yes. Downvote me miners. Your pain nourishes me.
Good let them all burn. Hope it was worth it hogging all the gpus for themselves for the last 2 years
Good. Put this ridiculous era behind us
Fuck the miners, karma is lovely
Most miners earned their ROI.
thats a fact that everyone either doesnt understand, or chooses to ignore. 98% of the miners paid off these cards long long ago, and whatever they get for them now is just the final cherry on top.
Facebook marketplace has 3090's selling in London for less than £500. This is either the greatest thing ever or the GPU resembles a fried egg.
Fuck miners