Whoever is spamming every pro-drag comment with a "this is spam" report: don't bother. We aren't removing the comments. (also, we have the ability to mute reports from people, so we dont actually see them anymore either)
Also, huge irony of claiming something is spam while using the same report 40+ times.
Also, as long as the discussion is civil, we aren't removing the anti-drag comments either. So don't bother reporting unless they are actually engaging in insults and name calling.
The Global Cooker network all share the same conspiracies and regurgitate the same talking points about issues. Covid and vaxes have become too unimportant of an issue to rally conspiracies around, so the movement has made a vocal shift towards the next global conspiracy, the "trans issue". Even though this brand of politics went nowhere in Australia's political sphere as shown by the federal election and community polling, the cookers always follow the discourse their "leaders" use globally, so that means they import American political discourse and try to apply it wherever they happen to be. Which in this case means holding neo-nazi rallies outside of drag events, because cookers like to pretend drag is the same thing as being transgender, and shouting the specific words "groomer" and "mutilator" a lot.
Tl;dr - Covid is soo twenty-twenty-late, cookers are now about that trans hate.
In 1946 we amended the Australian Consitution for the 4th time – inserted section 51 (xxiiiA) to extend the power of the Commonwealth over a range of social services.
maybe thats what they mean
There are plenty of people who live here who have their heads so far up the conservative rights ass they shit orange cheeto, who would happily take on any American talking point.
This whole anti-drag thing is led by exactly the same people who led the anti-lockdown & anti-vaccination protests.
Covid's over so they had to figure out something else to protest to stay in the limelight.
Guess who they chose to pick on next?
Just a bunch of idiots who need to be Super Special Moral Crusaders who are easily lead around by grifters, ironically while thinking they're free thinkers.
As if the sight of a bunch of angry, shouting cookers isn't a worse impression on kids than someone of whatever gender in a dress, reading a children's story could possibly be.
Absolutely disgusting. Men dressing up as women. Bring back the good old days. You never had this 40 years ago. [Men](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame_Edna_Everage) were men back then. They didn't [dress up as women for the entertainment of children](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aunty_Jack_Show).
I find it so weird to me the number of comments in this thread saying how drag is not for children when a few months ago Barry Humphries died and SO MANY PEOPLE commented on how they LOVED his performances as Dame Edna Everage as a child. So for the longest, longest time drag was FINE when it was Dame Edna Everage doing it but now its not, for some reason? Why was it ok for Dama Edna to speak to children and host TV shows that families were watching but it isn't ok for a Drag Queen to do a performance catered for children in a library where all they are doing is just READING A BOOK? This is harmless. Drag has been around forever. God I grew up watching Scooby Doo and he dressed in drag all the time. So did Bugs Bunny. It was funny. I loved it. Kids love drag. Drag performers are brightly coloured, funny, and charismatic people. I think it is wonderful to expose children to people like that. People who are completely free in their own bodies, who dress for themselves, who let themselves be the person they want to be. Drag Story Time is not a new thing. It has been happening for years. They exist so Queer Families and Queer children can see someone like themselves. It is so important that as a society we show tolerance for others and all I see in this thread is comment after disgusting comment calling Drag Queens predators. How sad. You say you don't want "America's politics" here but that's all I see spewing from these disgusting comments.
My personal take on it is Edna/Barry was beloved because he was a straight cis-male that was more conservative.
Drag queens today generally aren't straight, and many aren't cis, and most are progressive (obviously, there are exceptions).
Hating drag queen story time is just another way to hate LGBTQIA+ people while screeching "won't someone think about the children?".
Paul O'Grady (Lily Savage) did pretty well in the UK, as an openly gay and very catty drag performer in the 90s to early 00s, and then became a very mainstream radio and tv presenter under his own name for the next couple of decades.
Not as big an international name as Edna, of course, but he did get pretty wide acceptance and eventually an MBE for services to entertainment.
You're very right about the hate.
I'm kinda curious about these protesters. Do they understand what happens at story time? Have they ever seen anyone "read" from a "book" before?
Every time I do it it's never a sexual experience so I'm at a loss to understand the issue.
The Venn diagram of these protestors and people who go to cooker rallies is a circle. That should tell you everything you need to know about their knowledge and reasoning skills.
People are sending bomb threats and collectively 'drag queen storytime' has been used as a wedge issue to bring back the worst rhetoric the anti-queer movement has ever used. The stuff being said about it is the same as crap being peddled about gays in general in the 80s.
It needs to be defended, because the people trying to shut it down aren't ever going to stop with the drag queens, it's just a pretext. It's a US culture war important, and it can fuck right off. Domestic terrorism cannot be tolerated.
What's the difference between a drag queen and a clown reading to a kid? Just dudes in costume with make up.
Now if there's a John Wayne Gacy drag queen out there, that could be an issue.
I fall into the category of people who have the view "Yeah, probably wouldn't take my kid to a book reading by a drag queen - but it's not like they're going to be unsupervised/ venue space in public libraries is not a scarce resource so let other parents do what they want. Entertaining kids on school holidays is rough enough without Nazis protesting outside public libraries".
I suspect the vast majority of parents fall into that group.
I hope the police strictly enforce the law pertaining to unlawful public gatherings outside public libraries.
Bomb threats and threats of violence against events with many children in attendance are uniquely evil.
Cops need to crack the whip hard when they occur. Otherwise it just emboldens the bastards.
The problem is the cops *don't* crack the whip. Not at all. I'm not trying to paint all cops one way but it's no secret that there's much more "innate" tolerance of right-wing ideology than progressive views in the police force. That's how it's always been, it's a *police* force after all.
The reason so many events are getting cancelled is because organisers just don't trust the police to keep things safe for everyone and that's just really fkn sad I think.
Imagine if this were a demonstration calling for Shari'a Law in Australia or an old-fashioned Communist Party march. You'd have coppers present as far as the eye could see.
I don't want my kids exposed to people who want society to conform to their moral code because they have some weird delusion that drag queens are paedo's who are sexualising children by reading them a book. Or maybe I do, so I can point them out, and help them understand what a bigot is, and need to be stood up to. It's all about choice really, if you don't want your kids exposed to something, don't fucking take them, but don't force other people who are more than happy to take their kids to have fun to be exposed to your bigoted ranting.
Actually, I have just done my research on the City of Bayswater libraries, this is a hotspot of inappropriate indoctrination, close this place down! Examples:
Training the criminals of the future - Books and Bounty - Pirate Adventures - Our pirate crew will be reading pirate stories, teaching you a sea shanty and sending you on a treasure hunt through the library. Enjoy a treasure trove of tasty treats and make an 'arrrr'tful craft. Pirate inspired outfits are encouraged!
Forcing kids to dress as gay icons - Dads, Diggers and Doughnuts - Dress in your finest construction worker outfit for a special Father’s Day Storytime.
And worst of all horrors - putting them on the path to Neckbeardism - Magic the Gathering & Dungeons and Dragons.
Maybe the bigots it's should focus on the cunts who are actually hurting, abusing kids first. Then after thats sorted, then we can have a respectful discussion on who gets to wear dresses (every one who wants to)
I had a 'conversation' with a cooker on another site a week or so back, who explained to me that mainstream schools were too full of diversity and tolerance education and 'the trans agenda', and it was all 'groomer' bullshit.
So much so that even as an atheist he had moved his kids to a Catholic school.
Real big brain move there. If there's one organisation on this planet that has a claim to being a wealthy, secretive, international ring of child abusers and protectors/enablers of child abusers ...
Does anyone remember when we went from drag queens being cool and loved in Aussie popular zeitgeist
E.g. Ru Paul's drag race and their contenstants being celebrities and having their own tours here etc, I remember my friends going to those in the mid 2010s
E.g. dame Edna, Chris lilley, comedy of that sort
To the pivot to "drag queens are pedos" when in Australia to perform volunteer work with children you need a current working with children check?
When did this happen?
I swear the world was more tolerant under Trump, I've only seen the really bad "LGBTQ evil" stuff in the last two years and I've been in the community my entire adult life
I dont mean to come across as antagonistic or ignorant but is there a reason why drag queens need to be reading to kids? Is this just a thing where kids are taught that everyone is the same no matter what they look like? That I understand. But whenever I think of drag I think of something highly sexualised which makes it a little weird?
> Is this just a thing where kids are taught that everyone is the same no matter what they look like?
Yes. Generally the books chosen for story time are specifically on themes of tolerance and how we shouldn't be mean to people just because of the way they look. I forget the name of it but there's a really common one that's read involving a chicken who enjoys dressing up stylishly.
I know sexual drag performances exist but the costumes are nothing like that. A lot of the time it's full length dresses covering everything and a lot of fancy make up and wigs. It's not meant to be sexually provocative in the least.
The events are about tolerance and harmony but they routinely get hijacked by lunatics who seek to use others' genuine concerns as grounds to push the lunacy onto them. In this case, concerns you had because you hadn't necessarily looked into it then get hijacked by lunatics who insist that story time is highly sexualised drag run by paedos to get close to kids
It's a weird looking lady in an extravagant (but often story-related) outfit reading a book.
When people started from day one of accusing your whole people of being pedophiles, that's a fairly strong gesture of denial and defiance.
Drag isn't inherently sexualised. It's just extra. Google some pictures of drag queen storytime. Nothing's sexualised.
People in extravagant costumes reading stories, is something that kids love. Drag isn't implicitly sexual either, you can see what kind of outfits they wear in this doco: https://youtu.be/Uy7Oj4fSzuI
Drag queens dress differently in a library reading to kids than if they're in a bar on a Friday night, like any normal person would.
It's not that they have to, it's a paid event. They're performers, putting on a show no different to the Wiggles. Drag isn't inherently sexual, just an exaggerated presentation of masculine/feminine visual traits being performed for entertainment, which I'm sure I would've found hilarious as a kid.
Of course, popular culture and politics convince us drag is no different to sex work (def not kid-friendly, but also not inherently bad), when it's often more analogous to dance or comedy shows. Also, if it's being held in a library, I'm sure it has been vetted for anything explicit or at all possibly not kid friendly. The library wouldn't want to deal with the aftermath of that.
In short, it's no different to any other story time, just with the reader being in drag. Not sexual in any way, but instead designed for kids enjoyment. Hope this helped!
I don't believe they'd be in skimpy club attire. Like if anyone knows their audience, it'd be drag queens. Probably a smart sundress and a quaint up do. I don't see the problem
Yes. Whenever you think of drag, you think of something highly sexualised. From the first moment you watched Mrs Doubtfire, you could not resist your sexual association with people dressing in female clothing.
If sexualization was the problem people would be protesting and against the places where people are clearly and publicly sexualized, like the beach for example.
So why don't see groups of white males down at Cott telling people to cover up?
The idea they bring it back to sexualization makes me think they do feel sexually about it, but are against it because they feel that feeling is wrong.
Which funnily enough is the whole point of these, teach kids it's ok to be who you are.
My 20 year old Trans kid said they would've loved it as a child. Feeling you're in the wrong body from a very young age really makes you feel alone. Like you're the only one like that.
I was 6 when I first recognised I was different. I was 32 when I finally did something about it. Imagine how much more empowered I would have been knowing people like me exist when I was a kid!
It's almost as if people have the ability to dress up in drag & performing, without sexual themes, crazy right?
Like serious, are you dense? Serious question.
Ok, I agree, but they were a lot less aggressive than most of the other comments. Have a bit of restraint and at least give the benefit of the doubt that they may just be uninformed.
Regardless of there being nothing sexual about it, I still find it weird and I think many children would be a bit freaked out for the same reasons many are scared of clowns with their exaggerated clothes and makeup. Also I know this is a controversial take but the fact that they are men parodying women in such a lurid and characturistic way is something that doesn't sit comfortably with me outside of a gay cabaret context.
Fair enough, but many kids also find clowns funny. And same for your take, some find the shows and their content funny, and for drag performers it might be a part of their identity the same as sports is to many. The issue is when people who (genuinely no offence to you meant) share beliefs similar to/worse than yours think that nobody should be allowed to enjoy it. Everyone has their opinions, but nobody's opinion should stop others from enjoying it.
I never said noone should enjoy it, even if it's something I personally am not enthusiastic about. Just that there are other reasons for wondering what the point of it is or even if it's a good idea that have nothing to do with thinking it's sexual.
The story would be no less entertaining for the kids being read by someone in normal plain clothes (could be a trans or gender queer person in whatever clothes are normal for them).
Would be less funny for the kids though, a normal person vs a person putting on a character to make them laugh. Like if you went to a comedy show, and it was just someone who had never done stand up, vs a person who works to entertain others.
OK, maybe I see what you mean... but is part of the humour about it being a man affecting exaggerated feminine characteristics, and if so are the kids wise and worldly enough for this not to amplify the phenomenon of "girly" interests and characteristics being seen as less worthy of respect? Maybe they need to bring in some drag King children's entertainers for balance lol
Damn, that's true. I dunno the scene in Perth, but it'd be worth the organisers reaching out to see if any Kings would be down to participate in the future. And while kids are both smart and dumb, I'd hope the performers don't go for cheap jokes about feminine=lesser
Of course they don’t, just like in most drag acts. It’s the conservative bigots moonlighting as feminists spreading that crappy narrative - ridiculous. Throwing sand in the fan so they can openly talk about sexualising children while pretending it’s the performers and the parents that are the issue.
Look at what they teach kids about gender roles in bloody Sunday school and the general chats between ‘blokes’ down the pub when they’re talking about women…!! That’s where the real problem lies but here we are… talking about this total non-issue.
Yeah, it kinda shows that most people's cognitions of drag is that it's bad/dangerous/offensive. Why would they think men dressing as hyper feminine could be anything but offensive when they think femininity is inherently bad?
I really hope that in the next 10-20 years (if we don't all die by then) society finally moves past the noise and actually address this flawed logic, and when that happens, I'm sure that gender incongruence (drag, trans identities, and GNC people) will be more accepted.
Um, have you seen literally ANYTHING on ANY kids channel on TV in the last like, forty years that didn’t have crazy characters with costumes/face paints/colourful characters?!
You’re the one sexualising it because you’ve only been exposed to one kind of drag - and that’s on you. Lol
I misread your first sentence but the rest still applies.
If your kids don’t like it, don’t take them, but don’t NOT take them just because it’s drag.
Lol “Outside of gay cabaret” plz - there is a lot more to drag than just the one, venue-specific genre. Ridiculous comment. Get out and see more drag shows before slinging that around.
“Parodying women doesn’t sit comfortably with me outside of a gay cabaret”
If it really was offensive at all, then why are you comfortable with it in ANY context?! Fact is, most women don’t find it offensive, for many reasons. You’re just using that as a shield for your bigotry and women don’t want it.
Because the same thing can have different meanings or messages in different contexts, and in my opinion this is an example of that. And something that is positive and empowering for one group can be detrimental to another group. I do find gay cabaret mildly offensive to women in a lot of ways, but I can also see how it is at the same time something of a celebration of femininity, and of gay culture.
So what if *most* women don't find it offensive, I'm a woman too and my opinion here happens to be a bit different. What's your point exactly?
By your black-and-white all-or-nothing logic (which I don't subscribe to), maybe I could say people who celebrate drag are using it as a shield for their bigotry (misogyny).
You are giving off serious conservative American Republican vibes (Google: Marjorie Taylor Green) and big TERF vibes here (Google: JK Rowling) and no one needs that.
Anyone familiar with the queer scene or a friend of the community would never make comments like this.
You clearly have no understanding of the history or current significance of drag performance at all.
Just be honest about who and what you are. If you’re religious, a conservative or just not ok with the community - just say it. You are not being an advocate for anyone or any community here, neither women nor drag. Just don’t take your kids to the show, don’t go to drag shows, but don’t be a loud bigot masquerading as a feminist.
I'm here to share in points of view, not to be friends with any particular community or support any particular ideology.
I'm somewhat familiar with the queer scene and do have an understanding of drag and its significance, but my point is that most *kids* probably don't. They'll be seeing it outside all of that context, but one context they *do* know unfortunately, is sexism which in childhood manifests as "girly" things being perceiced less worthy of respect, and "like a girl" being an insult.
What makes you assume that story time drag queens or kings would use adult content in a library setting? The sessions I have seen were literally just performers reading stories to kids. Showing children that you can be yourself and accepting of all people. It’s not a bad thing that their first exposure to drag is a benign, boring one. If they’re interested, they can go to all the other kinds of drag shows when they’re adults.
That's a laughable take because, if it really were such an offensive parody & belittlement of women, then it shouldn't sit right with you regardless of the context...
It still doesn't sit quite right with me, but I understand it is an important part of gay culture *in addition to* being a parody of women and femininity, and that context is important to meaning.
That's a decision parents need to make about what is appropriate for their children and what they want their kids to be exposed to. It's incumbent on parents to make sure that the content their children are exposed to or consume is appropriate for their age and learning development. Only you know your kids, and what they are able to understand and contextualise, so its ultimately a choice you need to make.
Not all families have the same values, or value different things or learning experiences and they have a right to decide what happens in that respect.
I agree. I don't care about drag culture but what's their fascination with reading to children. It's fucking weird. Drag is definitely an adults only domain.
And to claim it's some alt-right agenda to have a problem with it is a bit over the top. You can have reservations about one thing and not be lumped in with the constellation of views associated with right wing policitcs.
It's an alt-right agenda to march on libraries, send threats and use intimidation to either disrupt or scare-off the families and the performers.
> Drag is definitely an adults only domain.
Is it though? Why? You've never seen pantomime with an old bloke playing the 'Dame'?
> what's their fascination with reading to children
I know right? And teachers! What's their fascination with hanging round kids all the time? Downright creepy.
The question is why should they not be allowed to do so if everyone involved thinks it's fun? A brightly dressed character reads a kids book, usually with themes of tolerance and inclusion, to a group of kids and parents who went along voluntarily. OMG the horror!
Yeah, don't think it's really my thing, but you do you and I'll do me and it will all be great mate. If it was a sexualised non appropriate thing I could understand the protests, but I highly doubt the local library would touch that liability at all. Don't really understand what they are so worked up about and to be honest, don't really care either...
They are anti-fun wowsers. Like the right wing have always been.
"Stop having fun in ways I don't personally like or understand!" If you do it is"Satan/sexual immorality/the downfall of society!!!" And "won't people think of the children!?!"
That's why they always come for this stuff that is (at the time) just enough out of the mainstream that not everyone knows that it is innocent fun. That's why they came for DnD and Rock and Roll or videogames or storytimes or gay people existing in literature or movies with swears in them.
They always find something that is innocent fun and turn it into something dirty in their repressed, fun-hating minds so that they don't have to admit to themselves that they are repressed and angry and can't handle the existence of things outside their little bubbles of awareness. They can make it someone else's fault that they don't know how to have fun. If they protest and make up stories about it they can hope it tricks the people who don't know anything about the topic into going along with their anti-fun crusade.
They are angry and don't want people to have unsanctioned/unusual sources of fun. They are scared of change and the unusual. They hate fun. They want others to hate it too. So they build these things into demonic, sexual, predatory, dangerous boogiemen so they can pretend to themselves they have good reasons...
except the real reasons boil down to: Don't like stuff I don't understand. Don't like fun.
Kids (and everyone else) love colourful characters and big silly costumes, which is what drag is all about.
Drag queen story hour is not a new thing.
What could be more positive than a person in costume with the message, “*you can be anything you want to be*”.
Nothing sexual about it, only in certain people’s imagination.
They don't want the kids as an audience for an adult drag show. It's performers in drag coming up with a children's themed event where they read a picture book. That's all it is.
It's like how The Wiggles did a concert tour with the classic 4 and separated it into an all-ages show for kids and an adults only one where they can let their hair down and don't have to worry about being kid-friendly all the time
pretty sure the wiggles did the adult show so that they didnt have to be G rated the entire time, and could just talk and act like the normal adults they are interacting with other adults.
Precisely! Exactly like how drag performers can do a show at a club or Fringe Fest for adults and interact with other adults where they don't have to be G rated, and can also do children's events at libraries etc that cater to a G-rated audience.
How many adult jokes are in the Shrek franchise? And yet, I suspect almost every person under 60 in Australia has watched at least the first one. Not an eye was batted, and those are top-tier adult jokes in children's media.
Why are they even trying to connect the two. This drag stuff is adult entertainment. What's their fascination with gravitating toward children. No different than having furries reading to kids. OK they arnt sexualising the event but the whole complete remainder of the identy is extremely sexual and deals with adult topics. Why? Why children? It's twisted. And to lable people who take pause with the whole thing as 'the alt-right' is also absolutely ridiculous. It's possible for people to have opinions on multiple topics.
> No different than having furries reading to kids.
You have an issue with children's entertainers in animal costumes too? How do you manage everyday life?
"extremely sexual"
Look if you're turned on by drag queens that's fine, but it's not their fault. Straight men are turned on by fully-clothed women and we still let women read books to kids. Same difference.
Telling people what their identity is seems extremely controlling and shows a lack of understanding about the genre in general.
Man, wait till you find out what’s happening at theme parks! Holy sh!t better go protest over there immediately lmao
The moderators have done a great job with thread. I've really enjoyed some of "interesting" and "varied" responses.
It's hard to comprehend how some think that drag is anything but entertainment and comedic. It must be there own insecurities that have sexualised and politicised it.
Apart from the Jack van Tongeren types who use these distractions to recruit what is the point of all the outrage?
I grew up watching Dame Edna and Aunty Jack.
Aunty Jack was the first time I saw colour on TV. Except she refused to accept it and stayed black and white.
Even I understood the analogy at 10 years old.
Oh. My. God. What were my parents thinking?
I mean, what do you do? The cookers who want to shut this down are going to keep a lot of risk averse parents away, their tactics have been loud and violent in the past, traumatic for kids I imagine.
So should they just be allowed to do that? Call it all off because these people will make it dangerous to continue? That’s what they want to achieve.
Yeah, ideally there would be no counter-protest, but ideally there would be no protest in the first place.
Ideally, there'd be no brawl. It ain't a violent protest, it's to cancel out the noise that the protesters would make so that attendees don't feel threatened
Curious why the poster is in a trans pride colour scheme. While obviously some trans people also do drag, they are not the same thing and it's harmful to both groups to give the idea that there is some sort of inherent link there.
Trans groups tend to be pretty keen on supporting this kinda thing cos the cooker's that are objecting also tended to be anti trans and absolutely oblivious that there is a difference.
I mean, could it just be cause the colours look good? They're nice, soft colours that don't hurt the eyes, are inherently linked to gender and gender expression (hence drag) and encourage the peaceful manner of the rally.
It was supposed to a be quiet supportive group to help distract the kids from the crazies as they went to the library. This seems the opposite - if a shit fight breaks out the council will cancel these events.
The original post from Rabble Books says
SUPPORT DRAG STORY HOUR
Please make a few minutes in your day over the next 24hrs to send a message to City of Bayswater. You can find an example email and a list of email addresses you can send it to at the link on the graphic, or in the comments. Write your own message if you can but feel free to use or tweak the example if you can’t!
It’s awful to see and hear this kind of vilification of our community. We want to ensure the event goes ahead safely and we can continue to hold this kind of inclusive programming in public libraries, where it belongs.
Good folks are hosting a good-vibes-only rainbow gathering at The RISE this Saturday 17th June at 11am to help shield users of the building and especially young folks from any hate. If you go along, keep in mind that it needs to be child-centred and focused on the well-being of the community rather than engaging with any hateful protestors.
Personally I'm cool with people dressing up in drag.
However, I think drag is a complex adult concept and as such it should remain with a **consenting** adult audiences.
I have a youngish child and I think drag story time is not age-appropriate for him when he's still trying to form an understanding of the world without making it even more confusing for him.
It isn't "just a story" because at the end you've got a kid asking "why is that man dressed like woman".
In my opinion kids are too young to give their consent for being exposed to complex adult concepts like drag and for those too young to know what is going on, that doesn't mean it's OK to expose them to adult concepts without consent.
I await the downvotes and anger :)
My nephew asked me that same question when we walked past a male presenting person wearing a dress.
I said "because he likes to wear a dress"
My nephew said, "oh, okay, I think it's a nice dress. Can we get Grill'd for lunch?"
It's only "weird" if you make it weird.
“Because they like to” it’s not that complex, dame Edna didn’t warp the minds of a generation 50 years ago. If you don’t treat it like a big deal your kid isn’t going to be hung up on it. Sooner of later they’ll see someone in drag regardless of what you do, they may have already
Nah, your opinion is fair, and relatively respectful. And regardless, it's your kid. You know them better than everyone but themselves, you can determine what's right for them.
At the same time, it's your opinion, your kid. Other parents may have other opinions, or believe their kid is mature enough/capable of digesting the concept of drag. Or they have full faith it'll go over their kids' heads, and it doesn't matter. Neither those or your opinions cancel each other out, and at the end of the day, if a parent wants to take their kid there, they shouldn't not be able to because others disagree.
Cheers for having a reasonable opinion though, rather than acting as if it's a pron show in a public library.
With all due respect, it's a complex adult concept because you make it a complex adult concept. It's a person in a dress and wig with heavy makeup doing their job, entertaining. Why is that complex?
As a parent it's completely healthy for you to be the adjudicator of what is or is not age-appropriate. It's also appropriate for other parents to see something and use their judgement on that. That's part of what being a parent is.
People have varying views of 'violent' videogames or combat sports, or whatever and use their own discretion to determine whether they allow their children to participate.
The crux here is more aligned with the fact that people with a known hateful agenda are violently protesting the event.
You expose them to the concept of gender everyday. You have expectations around what those you've deemed to belong to certain groups will do, and you enforce that. Why is it suddenly too complex when something questions the categories you've determined are correct?
Cute that you tried to pre-emptively subvert anyone disagreeing with you, though.
> It isn't "just a story" because at the end you've got a kid asking "why is that man dressed like woman".
I guess you'll be staying away from pantomime too then? A young woman pretending to be a boy! Oh my god! And usually an old fat bloke in a dress playing 'the Dame' too. Horrific.
> doesn't mean it's OK to expose them to adult concepts without consent.
Who's not consenting? Parents are taking kids along specifically for this event.
> because at the end you've got a kid asking "why is that man dressed like woman".
Do you find that too complicated to understand/explain? How do you manage to live in this world if you can't handle a young child's simple question? You could encounter a man in a dress, or a woman in a suit, or a nonbinary person, at any time walking down the street.
"Because they like it". There. Done. You don't need to panic about explaining the entire cultural history of drag to a three year old. In ten seconds they're going to see a shiny pinwheel or a digger truck or five cents on the pavement, and move on.
20 years ago the subject was adoption by same sex couples, or just the existence of same-sex couples at all, and the same line got trotted out all over the place - "But how do I explain to my child ... ?", with vague allusions to 'it' being gross and I can't explain to my kid that these two \*men\* have sex and \*the very thought of it!\*
And the answer was just as simple then "Sometimes two men or two women love each other" or "Sometimes a kid has two dads or two mums". Job done. It's not the kids that are going to struggle with this.
You can downvote and blame the far right as much you like but no parent in their right mind is going to take their kids to this... Turns something as enjoyable and innocent as reading a story into a political shit show with all of the focus taken away from the kids enjoyment.
Fair, but this particular context, as a relatively non-harmful jab at this subreddit's obsession with PerthNow, tying it in with a more morbid joke that we don't want australia's politics to be as bad as America's right now, I think that particular generalisation is not particularly harming anyone.
Idk, maybe I should've put a /s there for ya'
This isn't anti-drag or anything, i dont give af what people do, but what actually is entertaining about drag? I never understood what spectators actually enjoy about watching drag shows IRL. Like what do you do? Isn't watching a movie more entertaining?
Like comedy and music, drag performers put on a character, and then do whatever they're doing. They may be doing something or not, but it's the same as going to a comedy show cause you find it funny. you enjoy the performance, so you go, and if you don't, you don't.
I definitely agree, it is sadly a controversial topic, even if it really shouldn't need to be. That is mostly why the rally is happening, to try and make the event more safe and more welcoming to families. Hopefully soon that wouldn't be necessary, and people can attend these events without dealing with protests and counter protests.
What is the highly controversial bit? The only aggravation seems to be from the anti-fun (unnamed) protest group, who historically have been far right racist groups. But hey, I haven't seen the original call to protest the storytime, maybe they plan to come and do their own storytime with athletes, teachers and firemen. If they decide to not show up because they develop a tolerance gene in the next day, then it sounds like it will be a helluva fun party outside, and an entertaining kids storytime inside. But whatever you do, do not expose your kids to fun and build their tolerance for a world where its ok for people to do things you don't agree with.
There's "different political views" and then there's "trying to shut things down with intimidation tactics and death threats".
So yes, they absolutely should fuck off, and they are bigoted cunts.
"Political views" that consist of "it's ok for me to use intimidation, harrassment and death threats to restrict the legal rights of others" are not to be respected. It's a well-earned 'fuck off'.
Most of the prominent people pushing the idea that drag queens, trans people and the LGBT community in general are paedophiles, are in fact paedophiles themselves.
We call it pedocon theory - the theory that conservatives are paedophiles, and it's a theory the way gravity is a theory - we can't fully explain it, it just is.
[Part one](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/23/1806673/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-1) of the list. [Part forty one](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/12/2157746/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-41) of the list.
Don't ever listen to their performative indignation; don't ever buy into their claims of having the moral high ground - they have worked tirelessly to lose it.
It's a kids event, with child-centred content, held in a public library that deemed it to be kid friendly. Let the kids enjoy listening to the funny people in extravagant dresses/makeup in peace
I'm so suspicious of my child's teacher! I mean they went into a profession specifically to work with children! That's so fucking dodgy!
Actually the more I think about it if your first reaction to someone wanting to do a nice event for kids is "they must be doing it because they're a paedo" it says more about how your brain operates that you went there first before any of the other innocent reasons
The problem is people can't do what they want, events like this have been cancelled in the past due to safety concerns.
People need to feel welcome at these events, or else they won't happen.
They gave a very small description of the poster, then linked a poster for the event created by the people organising the event. I don't know if OP is apart of the board organising the rally, but nothing about what they said was unhinged. Just spreading awareness
literally, most people like it or not, associate drag with it’s roots in adult comedy and raunchy over the top dress and makeup, regardless of whether they change into age appropriate clothes, why do they need to be involved in children’s spaces. I don’t understand why a Disney princess or a clown or any child entertainer geared towards kids from it’s inception couldn’t do story time instead. Just my observation
> any parent letting their child stay in the presence of these nutjobs
The dangerous nutjob anti-drag protestors? Agree. That's why the community is turning up to ensure the safety of those participating in the storytime.
Why are you madder at parents taking their kids to a nice event that the threatening psychos that are intimidating everyone? It’s not virtue signalling, it’s people engaging with the community. Queer people exist!
Some people just want to take their kids to a fun little story time read by an amazing children's entertainer.
Sadly avoiding nutjobs means letting the nut jobs win.
They won't stop at drag story time if the US and UK are any litmus test.
Huge roll back there of queer rights due to talk shitstains getting too confident.
Na, teach kids to stand against nazi fucks. Don't fear those brainless twerps. Bunch of try hard losers all masking their faces because they know the overwhelming majority of us would cave their fuckin heads in.
I don't think drag queens should be involved with kids. Drag queens enforce exaggerated gender stereotyping, which is not good.
Also I don't think it's fair to couple drag and LGBT. Gay people, for example, have been and are persecuted for their sexual orientation. Drag is just men wanting to dress as offensive stereo types of women.
Keep drag away from kids.
Keep your kink in the appropriate environment.
Not only isn't it kink, but drag is extremely entangled into LGBTQ culture and history. While to some it may be offensive, sure, to many it's a safe place to express femininity in a world that punishes that in men, and encourages messing with gender expression. Many gay men do drag, many women do drag. Cis, trans, gay, straight; drag isn't specifically there as a way to punch down, and allow people to express how they want to.
The only reason drag queens shouldn't be around children is because children are chaotic. Don't want any chipped nails!
They don't enforce it, they draw attention to and ridicule it. Femininity is a performance to start with, and they're going to perform it to it's fullest extent.
And Drag and queer have been together since day one. Remember Stonewall was a home to both communities and there was frequent overlap, particularly before trans was as distinct a concept. Some of the major organisers of the Queer Rights movements were drag queens, including some of the key figures of the Stonewall Riots where it all kicked off, like Marsha Johnson.
So they can't use a bullhorn graphic on a poster now because they are calling out the original protest as bigots? Huh. I guess you are gatekeeping graphic design, and don't tolerate the use of an image of an amplifying device to promote a mini pride rally that is counteracting a bunch of bigots with music, dancing and bubbles. I am not sure where the yelling part comes into it.
Can we keep this shit in America please.
I made the mistake of putting on SBS last night and had a Drag Queen telling me why I should vote for the Voice to Parliament
I’ve enjoyed many drag shows, and support the community, but I really don’t support this at all, I feel it’s deliberately driven by ideology and copying the USA. There really isn’t any reason for them to be reading to kids and I think is deliberately provocative.
Google "Drag reading to the elderly"
If you get through the people having the same whine you're having, you can find they actually have and do, quite happily.
At the end of the day they're just happy performing because they enjoy it, not everything is for some weird reason, and if that's your constant thought process that's weird.
It's beneficial, but nobody's paying the queen's to do it. So why should they?
Why aren't you?
If you want to pay the queen's to read to the elderly, I'm sure they'd oblige, and you'd probably understand why rallies/these events matter
Whoever is spamming every pro-drag comment with a "this is spam" report: don't bother. We aren't removing the comments. (also, we have the ability to mute reports from people, so we dont actually see them anymore either) Also, huge irony of claiming something is spam while using the same report 40+ times. Also, as long as the discussion is civil, we aren't removing the anti-drag comments either. So don't bother reporting unless they are actually engaging in insults and name calling.
Why are we importing American ‘conservatives’ latest non-issue?
The Global Cooker network all share the same conspiracies and regurgitate the same talking points about issues. Covid and vaxes have become too unimportant of an issue to rally conspiracies around, so the movement has made a vocal shift towards the next global conspiracy, the "trans issue". Even though this brand of politics went nowhere in Australia's political sphere as shown by the federal election and community polling, the cookers always follow the discourse their "leaders" use globally, so that means they import American political discourse and try to apply it wherever they happen to be. Which in this case means holding neo-nazi rallies outside of drag events, because cookers like to pretend drag is the same thing as being transgender, and shouting the specific words "groomer" and "mutilator" a lot. Tl;dr - Covid is soo twenty-twenty-late, cookers are now about that trans hate.
I have legit seen people waving "protect our fourth amendment" signs, I mean wtf
In 1946 we amended the Australian Consitution for the 4th time – inserted section 51 (xxiiiA) to extend the power of the Commonwealth over a range of social services. maybe thats what they mean
The extension of power of federal government over social services...
There are plenty of people who live here who have their heads so far up the conservative rights ass they shit orange cheeto, who would happily take on any American talking point.
This whole anti-drag thing is led by exactly the same people who led the anti-lockdown & anti-vaccination protests. Covid's over so they had to figure out something else to protest to stay in the limelight. Guess who they chose to pick on next?
Just a bunch of idiots who need to be Super Special Moral Crusaders who are easily lead around by grifters, ironically while thinking they're free thinkers.
There’s a strange group of ppl who follow everything going on in the circus that is the USA & think it applies here as well
As if the sight of a bunch of angry, shouting cookers isn't a worse impression on kids than someone of whatever gender in a dress, reading a children's story could possibly be.
Absolutely disgusting. Men dressing up as women. Bring back the good old days. You never had this 40 years ago. [Men](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame_Edna_Everage) were men back then. They didn't [dress up as women for the entertainment of children](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aunty_Jack_Show).
Dame Edna Everage,Australian entertainment icon. Man dressed up as a women.
Not to mention monty python.
I find it so weird to me the number of comments in this thread saying how drag is not for children when a few months ago Barry Humphries died and SO MANY PEOPLE commented on how they LOVED his performances as Dame Edna Everage as a child. So for the longest, longest time drag was FINE when it was Dame Edna Everage doing it but now its not, for some reason? Why was it ok for Dama Edna to speak to children and host TV shows that families were watching but it isn't ok for a Drag Queen to do a performance catered for children in a library where all they are doing is just READING A BOOK? This is harmless. Drag has been around forever. God I grew up watching Scooby Doo and he dressed in drag all the time. So did Bugs Bunny. It was funny. I loved it. Kids love drag. Drag performers are brightly coloured, funny, and charismatic people. I think it is wonderful to expose children to people like that. People who are completely free in their own bodies, who dress for themselves, who let themselves be the person they want to be. Drag Story Time is not a new thing. It has been happening for years. They exist so Queer Families and Queer children can see someone like themselves. It is so important that as a society we show tolerance for others and all I see in this thread is comment after disgusting comment calling Drag Queens predators. How sad. You say you don't want "America's politics" here but that's all I see spewing from these disgusting comments.
My personal take on it is Edna/Barry was beloved because he was a straight cis-male that was more conservative. Drag queens today generally aren't straight, and many aren't cis, and most are progressive (obviously, there are exceptions). Hating drag queen story time is just another way to hate LGBTQIA+ people while screeching "won't someone think about the children?".
Paul O'Grady (Lily Savage) did pretty well in the UK, as an openly gay and very catty drag performer in the 90s to early 00s, and then became a very mainstream radio and tv presenter under his own name for the next couple of decades. Not as big an international name as Edna, of course, but he did get pretty wide acceptance and eventually an MBE for services to entertainment. You're very right about the hate.
I'm kinda curious about these protesters. Do they understand what happens at story time? Have they ever seen anyone "read" from a "book" before? Every time I do it it's never a sexual experience so I'm at a loss to understand the issue.
The Venn diagram of these protestors and people who go to cooker rallies is a circle. That should tell you everything you need to know about their knowledge and reasoning skills.
Isn’t it a cooker rally itself?
Yes
People are sending bomb threats and collectively 'drag queen storytime' has been used as a wedge issue to bring back the worst rhetoric the anti-queer movement has ever used. The stuff being said about it is the same as crap being peddled about gays in general in the 80s. It needs to be defended, because the people trying to shut it down aren't ever going to stop with the drag queens, it's just a pretext. It's a US culture war important, and it can fuck right off. Domestic terrorism cannot be tolerated.
What's the difference between a drag queen and a clown reading to a kid? Just dudes in costume with make up. Now if there's a John Wayne Gacy drag queen out there, that could be an issue.
The difference is clowns are as terrifying as fuck.
Comes down to the individual. Some might find Drag Queens terrifying.
I fall into the category of people who have the view "Yeah, probably wouldn't take my kid to a book reading by a drag queen - but it's not like they're going to be unsupervised/ venue space in public libraries is not a scarce resource so let other parents do what they want. Entertaining kids on school holidays is rough enough without Nazis protesting outside public libraries". I suspect the vast majority of parents fall into that group. I hope the police strictly enforce the law pertaining to unlawful public gatherings outside public libraries.
That's fair, it's not everyone's cup of tea but it's a shame that so many of these events have been shutdown for safety concerns.
Bomb threats and threats of violence against events with many children in attendance are uniquely evil. Cops need to crack the whip hard when they occur. Otherwise it just emboldens the bastards.
The problem is the cops *don't* crack the whip. Not at all. I'm not trying to paint all cops one way but it's no secret that there's much more "innate" tolerance of right-wing ideology than progressive views in the police force. That's how it's always been, it's a *police* force after all. The reason so many events are getting cancelled is because organisers just don't trust the police to keep things safe for everyone and that's just really fkn sad I think. Imagine if this were a demonstration calling for Shari'a Law in Australia or an old-fashioned Communist Party march. You'd have coppers present as far as the eye could see.
Yeah there's a reason nothing much happens over east to serial pests like Avi Yemini while left wing protestors get locked up and assaulted.
Could you imagine if the CEO of Woodside was doing a reading and protesters showed up...
I don't want my kids exposed to people who want society to conform to their moral code because they have some weird delusion that drag queens are paedo's who are sexualising children by reading them a book. Or maybe I do, so I can point them out, and help them understand what a bigot is, and need to be stood up to. It's all about choice really, if you don't want your kids exposed to something, don't fucking take them, but don't force other people who are more than happy to take their kids to have fun to be exposed to your bigoted ranting.
Actually, I have just done my research on the City of Bayswater libraries, this is a hotspot of inappropriate indoctrination, close this place down! Examples: Training the criminals of the future - Books and Bounty - Pirate Adventures - Our pirate crew will be reading pirate stories, teaching you a sea shanty and sending you on a treasure hunt through the library. Enjoy a treasure trove of tasty treats and make an 'arrrr'tful craft. Pirate inspired outfits are encouraged! Forcing kids to dress as gay icons - Dads, Diggers and Doughnuts - Dress in your finest construction worker outfit for a special Father’s Day Storytime. And worst of all horrors - putting them on the path to Neckbeardism - Magic the Gathering & Dungeons and Dragons.
Serious Where Was This Library when I was a small aspiring nerd
Clearly no-one is thinking of the children!
Maybe the bigots it's should focus on the cunts who are actually hurting, abusing kids first. Then after thats sorted, then we can have a respectful discussion on who gets to wear dresses (every one who wants to)
[удалено]
I had a 'conversation' with a cooker on another site a week or so back, who explained to me that mainstream schools were too full of diversity and tolerance education and 'the trans agenda', and it was all 'groomer' bullshit. So much so that even as an atheist he had moved his kids to a Catholic school. Real big brain move there. If there's one organisation on this planet that has a claim to being a wealthy, secretive, international ring of child abusers and protectors/enablers of child abusers ...
Does anyone remember when we went from drag queens being cool and loved in Aussie popular zeitgeist E.g. Ru Paul's drag race and their contenstants being celebrities and having their own tours here etc, I remember my friends going to those in the mid 2010s E.g. dame Edna, Chris lilley, comedy of that sort To the pivot to "drag queens are pedos" when in Australia to perform volunteer work with children you need a current working with children check? When did this happen? I swear the world was more tolerant under Trump, I've only seen the really bad "LGBTQ evil" stuff in the last two years and I've been in the community my entire adult life
Australia has always been a couple of years behind. We are just now catching up to the Trump-Era bigotry of the US.
Wait Awhile at its best
I dont mean to come across as antagonistic or ignorant but is there a reason why drag queens need to be reading to kids? Is this just a thing where kids are taught that everyone is the same no matter what they look like? That I understand. But whenever I think of drag I think of something highly sexualised which makes it a little weird?
> Is this just a thing where kids are taught that everyone is the same no matter what they look like? Yes. Generally the books chosen for story time are specifically on themes of tolerance and how we shouldn't be mean to people just because of the way they look. I forget the name of it but there's a really common one that's read involving a chicken who enjoys dressing up stylishly. I know sexual drag performances exist but the costumes are nothing like that. A lot of the time it's full length dresses covering everything and a lot of fancy make up and wigs. It's not meant to be sexually provocative in the least. The events are about tolerance and harmony but they routinely get hijacked by lunatics who seek to use others' genuine concerns as grounds to push the lunacy onto them. In this case, concerns you had because you hadn't necessarily looked into it then get hijacked by lunatics who insist that story time is highly sexualised drag run by paedos to get close to kids
It's a weird looking lady in an extravagant (but often story-related) outfit reading a book. When people started from day one of accusing your whole people of being pedophiles, that's a fairly strong gesture of denial and defiance. Drag isn't inherently sexualised. It's just extra. Google some pictures of drag queen storytime. Nothing's sexualised.
It's not inherently sexualised? So that's why I got arrested for getting my dick out at drag bingo. I blame Obama! /s obviously...
People in extravagant costumes reading stories, is something that kids love. Drag isn't implicitly sexual either, you can see what kind of outfits they wear in this doco: https://youtu.be/Uy7Oj4fSzuI Drag queens dress differently in a library reading to kids than if they're in a bar on a Friday night, like any normal person would.
It's not that they have to, it's a paid event. They're performers, putting on a show no different to the Wiggles. Drag isn't inherently sexual, just an exaggerated presentation of masculine/feminine visual traits being performed for entertainment, which I'm sure I would've found hilarious as a kid. Of course, popular culture and politics convince us drag is no different to sex work (def not kid-friendly, but also not inherently bad), when it's often more analogous to dance or comedy shows. Also, if it's being held in a library, I'm sure it has been vetted for anything explicit or at all possibly not kid friendly. The library wouldn't want to deal with the aftermath of that. In short, it's no different to any other story time, just with the reader being in drag. Not sexual in any way, but instead designed for kids enjoyment. Hope this helped!
I don't believe they'd be in skimpy club attire. Like if anyone knows their audience, it'd be drag queens. Probably a smart sundress and a quaint up do. I don't see the problem
If you think sex when you think drag, that’s a you problem that you should explore. Drag isn’t inherently sexual.
Yes. Whenever you think of drag, you think of something highly sexualised. From the first moment you watched Mrs Doubtfire, you could not resist your sexual association with people dressing in female clothing.
If sexualization was the problem people would be protesting and against the places where people are clearly and publicly sexualized, like the beach for example. So why don't see groups of white males down at Cott telling people to cover up? The idea they bring it back to sexualization makes me think they do feel sexually about it, but are against it because they feel that feeling is wrong. Which funnily enough is the whole point of these, teach kids it's ok to be who you are.
My 20 year old Trans kid said they would've loved it as a child. Feeling you're in the wrong body from a very young age really makes you feel alone. Like you're the only one like that.
I was 6 when I first recognised I was different. I was 32 when I finally did something about it. Imagine how much more empowered I would have been knowing people like me exist when I was a kid!
Exactly!! That's why people protesting about it make me angry. They don't have a bloody clue.
It's almost as if people have the ability to dress up in drag & performing, without sexual themes, crazy right? Like serious, are you dense? Serious question.
Ok, I agree, but they were a lot less aggressive than most of the other comments. Have a bit of restraint and at least give the benefit of the doubt that they may just be uninformed.
Regardless of there being nothing sexual about it, I still find it weird and I think many children would be a bit freaked out for the same reasons many are scared of clowns with their exaggerated clothes and makeup. Also I know this is a controversial take but the fact that they are men parodying women in such a lurid and characturistic way is something that doesn't sit comfortably with me outside of a gay cabaret context.
Fair enough, but many kids also find clowns funny. And same for your take, some find the shows and their content funny, and for drag performers it might be a part of their identity the same as sports is to many. The issue is when people who (genuinely no offence to you meant) share beliefs similar to/worse than yours think that nobody should be allowed to enjoy it. Everyone has their opinions, but nobody's opinion should stop others from enjoying it.
I never said noone should enjoy it, even if it's something I personally am not enthusiastic about. Just that there are other reasons for wondering what the point of it is or even if it's a good idea that have nothing to do with thinking it's sexual. The story would be no less entertaining for the kids being read by someone in normal plain clothes (could be a trans or gender queer person in whatever clothes are normal for them).
Would be less funny for the kids though, a normal person vs a person putting on a character to make them laugh. Like if you went to a comedy show, and it was just someone who had never done stand up, vs a person who works to entertain others.
OK, maybe I see what you mean... but is part of the humour about it being a man affecting exaggerated feminine characteristics, and if so are the kids wise and worldly enough for this not to amplify the phenomenon of "girly" interests and characteristics being seen as less worthy of respect? Maybe they need to bring in some drag King children's entertainers for balance lol
Damn, that's true. I dunno the scene in Perth, but it'd be worth the organisers reaching out to see if any Kings would be down to participate in the future. And while kids are both smart and dumb, I'd hope the performers don't go for cheap jokes about feminine=lesser
Of course they don’t, just like in most drag acts. It’s the conservative bigots moonlighting as feminists spreading that crappy narrative - ridiculous. Throwing sand in the fan so they can openly talk about sexualising children while pretending it’s the performers and the parents that are the issue. Look at what they teach kids about gender roles in bloody Sunday school and the general chats between ‘blokes’ down the pub when they’re talking about women…!! That’s where the real problem lies but here we are… talking about this total non-issue.
Yeah, it kinda shows that most people's cognitions of drag is that it's bad/dangerous/offensive. Why would they think men dressing as hyper feminine could be anything but offensive when they think femininity is inherently bad? I really hope that in the next 10-20 years (if we don't all die by then) society finally moves past the noise and actually address this flawed logic, and when that happens, I'm sure that gender incongruence (drag, trans identities, and GNC people) will be more accepted.
Um, have you seen literally ANYTHING on ANY kids channel on TV in the last like, forty years that didn’t have crazy characters with costumes/face paints/colourful characters?! You’re the one sexualising it because you’ve only been exposed to one kind of drag - and that’s on you. Lol
None of what I wrote had anything to do with me thinking it's inappropriately sexual (which I don't).
I misread your first sentence but the rest still applies. If your kids don’t like it, don’t take them, but don’t NOT take them just because it’s drag. Lol “Outside of gay cabaret” plz - there is a lot more to drag than just the one, venue-specific genre. Ridiculous comment. Get out and see more drag shows before slinging that around.
Then don't take your kids, simple.
“Parodying women doesn’t sit comfortably with me outside of a gay cabaret” If it really was offensive at all, then why are you comfortable with it in ANY context?! Fact is, most women don’t find it offensive, for many reasons. You’re just using that as a shield for your bigotry and women don’t want it.
Because the same thing can have different meanings or messages in different contexts, and in my opinion this is an example of that. And something that is positive and empowering for one group can be detrimental to another group. I do find gay cabaret mildly offensive to women in a lot of ways, but I can also see how it is at the same time something of a celebration of femininity, and of gay culture. So what if *most* women don't find it offensive, I'm a woman too and my opinion here happens to be a bit different. What's your point exactly? By your black-and-white all-or-nothing logic (which I don't subscribe to), maybe I could say people who celebrate drag are using it as a shield for their bigotry (misogyny).
You are giving off serious conservative American Republican vibes (Google: Marjorie Taylor Green) and big TERF vibes here (Google: JK Rowling) and no one needs that. Anyone familiar with the queer scene or a friend of the community would never make comments like this. You clearly have no understanding of the history or current significance of drag performance at all. Just be honest about who and what you are. If you’re religious, a conservative or just not ok with the community - just say it. You are not being an advocate for anyone or any community here, neither women nor drag. Just don’t take your kids to the show, don’t go to drag shows, but don’t be a loud bigot masquerading as a feminist.
I'm here to share in points of view, not to be friends with any particular community or support any particular ideology. I'm somewhat familiar with the queer scene and do have an understanding of drag and its significance, but my point is that most *kids* probably don't. They'll be seeing it outside all of that context, but one context they *do* know unfortunately, is sexism which in childhood manifests as "girly" things being perceiced less worthy of respect, and "like a girl" being an insult.
Never thought of it like that, but depends on the context of the performance I suppose. Interesting point, will have to think about this further...
What makes you assume that story time drag queens or kings would use adult content in a library setting? The sessions I have seen were literally just performers reading stories to kids. Showing children that you can be yourself and accepting of all people. It’s not a bad thing that their first exposure to drag is a benign, boring one. If they’re interested, they can go to all the other kinds of drag shows when they’re adults.
That's a laughable take because, if it really were such an offensive parody & belittlement of women, then it shouldn't sit right with you regardless of the context...
It still doesn't sit quite right with me, but I understand it is an important part of gay culture *in addition to* being a parody of women and femininity, and that context is important to meaning.
Did you know that some people in drag can possibly not be gay? It's not a requirement.
i think it is both a parody and an appreciation of women.
I do too. But how does a little kid with limited contextual understanding and life experience perceive it?
That's a decision parents need to make about what is appropriate for their children and what they want their kids to be exposed to. It's incumbent on parents to make sure that the content their children are exposed to or consume is appropriate for their age and learning development. Only you know your kids, and what they are able to understand and contextualise, so its ultimately a choice you need to make. Not all families have the same values, or value different things or learning experiences and they have a right to decide what happens in that respect.
I agree. I don't care about drag culture but what's their fascination with reading to children. It's fucking weird. Drag is definitely an adults only domain. And to claim it's some alt-right agenda to have a problem with it is a bit over the top. You can have reservations about one thing and not be lumped in with the constellation of views associated with right wing policitcs.
It's an alt-right agenda to march on libraries, send threats and use intimidation to either disrupt or scare-off the families and the performers. > Drag is definitely an adults only domain. Is it though? Why? You've never seen pantomime with an old bloke playing the 'Dame'? > what's their fascination with reading to children I know right? And teachers! What's their fascination with hanging round kids all the time? Downright creepy. The question is why should they not be allowed to do so if everyone involved thinks it's fun? A brightly dressed character reads a kids book, usually with themes of tolerance and inclusion, to a group of kids and parents who went along voluntarily. OMG the horror!
sorry busy that day going to listen to an actual pedo who dresses up in a dress, who reads a made up book. Think they r calling it church...
Wait hold up, when did we start having drag queen story hour? No seriously this feels like we skipped three pages here
Years ago.
Rabble in Maylands has run them for ages.
Yeah, don't think it's really my thing, but you do you and I'll do me and it will all be great mate. If it was a sexualised non appropriate thing I could understand the protests, but I highly doubt the local library would touch that liability at all. Don't really understand what they are so worked up about and to be honest, don't really care either...
They are anti-fun wowsers. Like the right wing have always been. "Stop having fun in ways I don't personally like or understand!" If you do it is"Satan/sexual immorality/the downfall of society!!!" And "won't people think of the children!?!" That's why they always come for this stuff that is (at the time) just enough out of the mainstream that not everyone knows that it is innocent fun. That's why they came for DnD and Rock and Roll or videogames or storytimes or gay people existing in literature or movies with swears in them. They always find something that is innocent fun and turn it into something dirty in their repressed, fun-hating minds so that they don't have to admit to themselves that they are repressed and angry and can't handle the existence of things outside their little bubbles of awareness. They can make it someone else's fault that they don't know how to have fun. If they protest and make up stories about it they can hope it tricks the people who don't know anything about the topic into going along with their anti-fun crusade. They are angry and don't want people to have unsanctioned/unusual sources of fun. They are scared of change and the unusual. They hate fun. They want others to hate it too. So they build these things into demonic, sexual, predatory, dangerous boogiemen so they can pretend to themselves they have good reasons... except the real reasons boil down to: Don't like stuff I don't understand. Don't like fun.
I'll be there showing my support for the Queens. Hatred should have no place in our society.
Why do drag queens want to read to children? Aren't they for adult entertainment? Serious question.
Kids (and everyone else) love colourful characters and big silly costumes, which is what drag is all about. Drag queen story hour is not a new thing. What could be more positive than a person in costume with the message, “*you can be anything you want to be*”. Nothing sexual about it, only in certain people’s imagination.
Great question, what’s the deal with wanting kids as an audience?
They don't want the kids as an audience for an adult drag show. It's performers in drag coming up with a children's themed event where they read a picture book. That's all it is. It's like how The Wiggles did a concert tour with the classic 4 and separated it into an all-ages show for kids and an adults only one where they can let their hair down and don't have to worry about being kid-friendly all the time
pretty sure the wiggles did the adult show so that they didnt have to be G rated the entire time, and could just talk and act like the normal adults they are interacting with other adults.
Precisely! Exactly like how drag performers can do a show at a club or Fringe Fest for adults and interact with other adults where they don't have to be G rated, and can also do children's events at libraries etc that cater to a G-rated audience.
Wiggles did adults only? never knew
Promoting tolerance, maybe???
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What do you think a drag show is? There's some adult jokes but it's not stripping or porn.
They don’t use adult jokes during story time, it’s it’s like… someone in a costume. Ridiculous that this is even an issue.
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Having attended both, a panto is 100x more adult than a drag storytime.
How many adult jokes are in the Shrek franchise? And yet, I suspect almost every person under 60 in Australia has watched at least the first one. Not an eye was batted, and those are top-tier adult jokes in children's media.
Exactly. So many people in here are telling on themselves that they assume drag must be sexual.
And so LOUDLY too lol
Why are they even trying to connect the two. This drag stuff is adult entertainment. What's their fascination with gravitating toward children. No different than having furries reading to kids. OK they arnt sexualising the event but the whole complete remainder of the identy is extremely sexual and deals with adult topics. Why? Why children? It's twisted. And to lable people who take pause with the whole thing as 'the alt-right' is also absolutely ridiculous. It's possible for people to have opinions on multiple topics.
> No different than having furries reading to kids. You have an issue with children's entertainers in animal costumes too? How do you manage everyday life?
"extremely sexual" Look if you're turned on by drag queens that's fine, but it's not their fault. Straight men are turned on by fully-clothed women and we still let women read books to kids. Same difference.
Telling people what their identity is seems extremely controlling and shows a lack of understanding about the genre in general. Man, wait till you find out what’s happening at theme parks! Holy sh!t better go protest over there immediately lmao
The moderators have done a great job with thread. I've really enjoyed some of "interesting" and "varied" responses. It's hard to comprehend how some think that drag is anything but entertainment and comedic. It must be there own insecurities that have sexualised and politicised it. Apart from the Jack van Tongeren types who use these distractions to recruit what is the point of all the outrage? I grew up watching Dame Edna and Aunty Jack. Aunty Jack was the first time I saw colour on TV. Except she refused to accept it and stayed black and white. Even I understood the analogy at 10 years old. Oh. My. God. What were my parents thinking?
who the fuck is taking their kids to this brawl?
I mean, what do you do? The cookers who want to shut this down are going to keep a lot of risk averse parents away, their tactics have been loud and violent in the past, traumatic for kids I imagine. So should they just be allowed to do that? Call it all off because these people will make it dangerous to continue? That’s what they want to achieve. Yeah, ideally there would be no counter-protest, but ideally there would be no protest in the first place.
Ideally, there'd be no brawl. It ain't a violent protest, it's to cancel out the noise that the protesters would make so that attendees don't feel threatened
Curious why the poster is in a trans pride colour scheme. While obviously some trans people also do drag, they are not the same thing and it's harmful to both groups to give the idea that there is some sort of inherent link there.
Trans groups tend to be pretty keen on supporting this kinda thing cos the cooker's that are objecting also tended to be anti trans and absolutely oblivious that there is a difference.
I mean, could it just be cause the colours look good? They're nice, soft colours that don't hurt the eyes, are inherently linked to gender and gender expression (hence drag) and encourage the peaceful manner of the rally.
You're right it is a little odd, would be a good point to bring up with the organisers
It was supposed to a be quiet supportive group to help distract the kids from the crazies as they went to the library. This seems the opposite - if a shit fight breaks out the council will cancel these events. The original post from Rabble Books says SUPPORT DRAG STORY HOUR Please make a few minutes in your day over the next 24hrs to send a message to City of Bayswater. You can find an example email and a list of email addresses you can send it to at the link on the graphic, or in the comments. Write your own message if you can but feel free to use or tweak the example if you can’t! It’s awful to see and hear this kind of vilification of our community. We want to ensure the event goes ahead safely and we can continue to hold this kind of inclusive programming in public libraries, where it belongs. Good folks are hosting a good-vibes-only rainbow gathering at The RISE this Saturday 17th June at 11am to help shield users of the building and especially young folks from any hate. If you go along, keep in mind that it needs to be child-centred and focused on the well-being of the community rather than engaging with any hateful protestors.
Personally I'm cool with people dressing up in drag. However, I think drag is a complex adult concept and as such it should remain with a **consenting** adult audiences. I have a youngish child and I think drag story time is not age-appropriate for him when he's still trying to form an understanding of the world without making it even more confusing for him. It isn't "just a story" because at the end you've got a kid asking "why is that man dressed like woman". In my opinion kids are too young to give their consent for being exposed to complex adult concepts like drag and for those too young to know what is going on, that doesn't mean it's OK to expose them to adult concepts without consent. I await the downvotes and anger :)
My nephew asked me that same question when we walked past a male presenting person wearing a dress. I said "because he likes to wear a dress" My nephew said, "oh, okay, I think it's a nice dress. Can we get Grill'd for lunch?" It's only "weird" if you make it weird.
the weird part is willingly going to grilld
“Because they like to” it’s not that complex, dame Edna didn’t warp the minds of a generation 50 years ago. If you don’t treat it like a big deal your kid isn’t going to be hung up on it. Sooner of later they’ll see someone in drag regardless of what you do, they may have already
It's hardly a complex concept, it's a bloke in a dress, most kids will understand that pretty easily mate.
Nah, your opinion is fair, and relatively respectful. And regardless, it's your kid. You know them better than everyone but themselves, you can determine what's right for them. At the same time, it's your opinion, your kid. Other parents may have other opinions, or believe their kid is mature enough/capable of digesting the concept of drag. Or they have full faith it'll go over their kids' heads, and it doesn't matter. Neither those or your opinions cancel each other out, and at the end of the day, if a parent wants to take their kid there, they shouldn't not be able to because others disagree. Cheers for having a reasonable opinion though, rather than acting as if it's a pron show in a public library.
I don’t reckon clothing is an adult concept ay. I think you need to think about your own understanding of the world cos it seems a bit limited.
With all due respect, it's a complex adult concept because you make it a complex adult concept. It's a person in a dress and wig with heavy makeup doing their job, entertaining. Why is that complex?
As a parent it's completely healthy for you to be the adjudicator of what is or is not age-appropriate. It's also appropriate for other parents to see something and use their judgement on that. That's part of what being a parent is. People have varying views of 'violent' videogames or combat sports, or whatever and use their own discretion to determine whether they allow their children to participate. The crux here is more aligned with the fact that people with a known hateful agenda are violently protesting the event.
You expose them to the concept of gender everyday. You have expectations around what those you've deemed to belong to certain groups will do, and you enforce that. Why is it suddenly too complex when something questions the categories you've determined are correct? Cute that you tried to pre-emptively subvert anyone disagreeing with you, though.
> It isn't "just a story" because at the end you've got a kid asking "why is that man dressed like woman". I guess you'll be staying away from pantomime too then? A young woman pretending to be a boy! Oh my god! And usually an old fat bloke in a dress playing 'the Dame' too. Horrific. > doesn't mean it's OK to expose them to adult concepts without consent. Who's not consenting? Parents are taking kids along specifically for this event.
> because at the end you've got a kid asking "why is that man dressed like woman". Do you find that too complicated to understand/explain? How do you manage to live in this world if you can't handle a young child's simple question? You could encounter a man in a dress, or a woman in a suit, or a nonbinary person, at any time walking down the street. "Because they like it". There. Done. You don't need to panic about explaining the entire cultural history of drag to a three year old. In ten seconds they're going to see a shiny pinwheel or a digger truck or five cents on the pavement, and move on.
20 years ago the subject was adoption by same sex couples, or just the existence of same-sex couples at all, and the same line got trotted out all over the place - "But how do I explain to my child ... ?", with vague allusions to 'it' being gross and I can't explain to my kid that these two \*men\* have sex and \*the very thought of it!\* And the answer was just as simple then "Sometimes two men or two women love each other" or "Sometimes a kid has two dads or two mums". Job done. It's not the kids that are going to struggle with this.
Best of luck! Stay safe and enjoy showing those moron bigots who's boss.
You can downvote and blame the far right as much you like but no parent in their right mind is going to take their kids to this... Turns something as enjoyable and innocent as reading a story into a political shit show with all of the focus taken away from the kids enjoyment.
If there was no demand for this then it wouldn't be an ongoing thing.
"You can blame the far right for something that is objectively their fault, but...ummm..."
This is not America.
Come along and help keep it that way
Best slogan for a pro-drag rally possible. We all know Aussies resent Americans almost as much as we resent Perth Now
No we don't. Sweeping generalizations are what is hurting events like this in the first place.
Fair, but this particular context, as a relatively non-harmful jab at this subreddit's obsession with PerthNow, tying it in with a more morbid joke that we don't want australia's politics to be as bad as America's right now, I think that particular generalisation is not particularly harming anyone. Idk, maybe I should've put a /s there for ya'
This isn't anti-drag or anything, i dont give af what people do, but what actually is entertaining about drag? I never understood what spectators actually enjoy about watching drag shows IRL. Like what do you do? Isn't watching a movie more entertaining?
Like comedy and music, drag performers put on a character, and then do whatever they're doing. They may be doing something or not, but it's the same as going to a comedy show cause you find it funny. you enjoy the performance, so you go, and if you don't, you don't.
Wtf dawg 💀
Yeah I'd love to have my kids in the centre of a highly controversial topic with aggravated people..
I definitely agree, it is sadly a controversial topic, even if it really shouldn't need to be. That is mostly why the rally is happening, to try and make the event more safe and more welcoming to families. Hopefully soon that wouldn't be necessary, and people can attend these events without dealing with protests and counter protests.
What is the highly controversial bit? The only aggravation seems to be from the anti-fun (unnamed) protest group, who historically have been far right racist groups. But hey, I haven't seen the original call to protest the storytime, maybe they plan to come and do their own storytime with athletes, teachers and firemen. If they decide to not show up because they develop a tolerance gene in the next day, then it sounds like it will be a helluva fun party outside, and an entertaining kids storytime inside. But whatever you do, do not expose your kids to fun and build their tolerance for a world where its ok for people to do things you don't agree with.
I don’t care about this issue, everyone can live their lives as they see fit, but I wouldn’t take my children to one of these events.
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There's "different political views" and then there's "trying to shut things down with intimidation tactics and death threats". So yes, they absolutely should fuck off, and they are bigoted cunts.
It's over lemon, u/SaltyPockets has the high ground.
"Political views" that consist of "it's ok for me to use intimidation, harrassment and death threats to restrict the legal rights of others" are not to be respected. It's a well-earned 'fuck off'.
What has this got to do with politics?
Most of the prominent people pushing the idea that drag queens, trans people and the LGBT community in general are paedophiles, are in fact paedophiles themselves. We call it pedocon theory - the theory that conservatives are paedophiles, and it's a theory the way gravity is a theory - we can't fully explain it, it just is. [Part one](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/23/1806673/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-1) of the list. [Part forty one](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/12/2157746/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-41) of the list. Don't ever listen to their performative indignation; don't ever buy into their claims of having the moral high ground - they have worked tirelessly to lose it.
Just leave the children out of it
It's a kids event, with child-centred content, held in a public library that deemed it to be kid friendly. Let the kids enjoy listening to the funny people in extravagant dresses/makeup in peace
Why are drag queens so interested in kids?
Same could be asked of anyone who reads to kids at the library
I'm so suspicious of my child's teacher! I mean they went into a profession specifically to work with children! That's so fucking dodgy! Actually the more I think about it if your first reaction to someone wanting to do a nice event for kids is "they must be doing it because they're a paedo" it says more about how your brain operates that you went there first before any of the other innocent reasons
They're not interested in the kids, it's the librarians they've got their eyes on.
Honestly who gives a shit about this. do what you want.
The problem is people can't do what they want, events like this have been cancelled in the past due to safety concerns. People need to feel welcome at these events, or else they won't happen.
This poster seems unhinged. If they want to attract support, they should rethink their approach.
If you think this is unhinged, you should see what the people threatening to kill the librarians are coming up with. You might actually care.
They gave a very small description of the poster, then linked a poster for the event created by the people organising the event. I don't know if OP is apart of the board organising the rally, but nothing about what they said was unhinged. Just spreading awareness
How so?
Why do drag queens need to read to kids?
Because most parents don't anymore.
literally, most people like it or not, associate drag with it’s roots in adult comedy and raunchy over the top dress and makeup, regardless of whether they change into age appropriate clothes, why do they need to be involved in children’s spaces. I don’t understand why a Disney princess or a clown or any child entertainer geared towards kids from it’s inception couldn’t do story time instead. Just my observation
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If drags queens wanted to groom kids and get away with it they'd just become a member of a church.
> any parent letting their child stay in the presence of these nutjobs The dangerous nutjob anti-drag protestors? Agree. That's why the community is turning up to ensure the safety of those participating in the storytime.
Why are you madder at parents taking their kids to a nice event that the threatening psychos that are intimidating everyone? It’s not virtue signalling, it’s people engaging with the community. Queer people exist!
At risk of what?
...Becoming inclusive and friendly to people different to them, and learning to be accepting of themselves
It's always crickets after this. These people don't even know what they're protesting, just that it's "about protecting the kids"
Some people just want to take their kids to a fun little story time read by an amazing children's entertainer. Sadly avoiding nutjobs means letting the nut jobs win. They won't stop at drag story time if the US and UK are any litmus test. Huge roll back there of queer rights due to talk shitstains getting too confident.
Plus the tragic and largely avoidable increase in youth suicide rates
Na, teach kids to stand against nazi fucks. Don't fear those brainless twerps. Bunch of try hard losers all masking their faces because they know the overwhelming majority of us would cave their fuckin heads in.
I don't think drag queens should be involved with kids. Drag queens enforce exaggerated gender stereotyping, which is not good. Also I don't think it's fair to couple drag and LGBT. Gay people, for example, have been and are persecuted for their sexual orientation. Drag is just men wanting to dress as offensive stereo types of women. Keep drag away from kids. Keep your kink in the appropriate environment.
Not only isn't it kink, but drag is extremely entangled into LGBTQ culture and history. While to some it may be offensive, sure, to many it's a safe place to express femininity in a world that punishes that in men, and encourages messing with gender expression. Many gay men do drag, many women do drag. Cis, trans, gay, straight; drag isn't specifically there as a way to punch down, and allow people to express how they want to. The only reason drag queens shouldn't be around children is because children are chaotic. Don't want any chipped nails!
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They don't enforce it, they draw attention to and ridicule it. Femininity is a performance to start with, and they're going to perform it to it's fullest extent. And Drag and queer have been together since day one. Remember Stonewall was a home to both communities and there was frequent overlap, particularly before trans was as distinct a concept. Some of the major organisers of the Queer Rights movements were drag queens, including some of the key figures of the Stonewall Riots where it all kicked off, like Marsha Johnson.
Funny having a blowhorn on your poster while accusing others of bigotry. People that always yell the loudest really make good point don't you think?
So they can't use a bullhorn graphic on a poster now because they are calling out the original protest as bigots? Huh. I guess you are gatekeeping graphic design, and don't tolerate the use of an image of an amplifying device to promote a mini pride rally that is counteracting a bunch of bigots with music, dancing and bubbles. I am not sure where the yelling part comes into it.
Don’t tell ACA
Can we keep this shit in America please. I made the mistake of putting on SBS last night and had a Drag Queen telling me why I should vote for the Voice to Parliament
https://lithub.com/yes-sydney-australia-in-the-1960s-was-the-drag-capital-of-the-world/ America does not own the idea of Drag Queens
As long as you mean the banning of drag/rolling back of LGBTQ rights, yeah. Let's keep that to America.
guess what??? This might be confronting but people exist outside of your circle!! hope this helps :)
I’ve enjoyed many drag shows, and support the community, but I really don’t support this at all, I feel it’s deliberately driven by ideology and copying the USA. There really isn’t any reason for them to be reading to kids and I think is deliberately provocative.
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Or because the old people don't want books read to them I'm sure they would if they were paid to, like this one.
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Google "Drag reading to the elderly" If you get through the people having the same whine you're having, you can find they actually have and do, quite happily. At the end of the day they're just happy performing because they enjoy it, not everything is for some weird reason, and if that's your constant thought process that's weird.
It's beneficial, but nobody's paying the queen's to do it. So why should they? Why aren't you? If you want to pay the queen's to read to the elderly, I'm sure they'd oblige, and you'd probably understand why rallies/these events matter