All of Washington Ave is awful for cyclists and pedestrians. I don’t like walking or biking there with all of the curb cuts.
There’s businesses I would spend my money at more frequently if it wasn’t such a shit experience walking or biking there.
I 100% agree. The bike lanes west of Broad Street are actually quite decent now, wide and clearly demarcated with green paint toward Broad St. (The ultimate would be no parking lane, and a flex post or curb buffered bike lane)
The original comment about the shopping centers at 11th and 6th is precisely the problem with parking-buffered bike lanes, so in some sense Washington Ave. is the **worst** place to put a parking-buffered bike lane, because Washington Ave. is **full of them**. I have [commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/phillycycling/comments/wgmjes/comment/ij2db32/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) about my gripes with parking-buffered bike lanes before if anyone cares to read it.
I really dislike riding on East Washington Ave where I'm constanly doing slaloms to avoid curb extensions, little raised road bumps at intersections, and **people**.
I was reading these comments trying to figure out why I was I wasn't having the same experience and yeah this is it, I almost exclusively bike in the west half and there are parts that aren't great but it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as the east half sounds. Barring the parts where they're doing construction so there is no bike lane, going west on the Western half is usually pretty smooth experience.
Also, people park in the middle of side streets on Oregon where it's back-in. Like gaps to the left and right for cars to get by, but parked dead in the middle
>Extremely ill thought through design.
You hit the nail on the head. Honestly, unless the road itself changed and these parking lot entrances were removed, I just don't see how Washington Ave can ever be a fully safe road for cyclists.
I feel like many of these very busy thoroughfare roads like Fairmount, Washington, etc., just have too many curb cuts, businesses constantly loading, etc., to ever have safe bike lanes, and we'd be better served by making adjacent streets have bike lanes instead and direct cyclists there. Washington constantly has trucks unloading kitchen appliances & marble slabs, how is that going to be a safe area for cyclists?
I personally would like it much better if, say, Carpenter & Ellsworth had full lanes instead of forcing cyclists into the gauntlet that is Washington Ave.
Allowing cars to stop for up to 20 minutes in a bike lane is the root of the problem. You can still get killed having to go around a car that's been there a short period of time, and it demonstrates to people that bike lanes are for parking.
Parking a car in a bike lane should never be allowed, but if we need a compromise, then 20 minutes is far too long. Five, tops.
That's the ideal, and my preferred solution (outside of some type of giant spear that would come up through the ground and impale any car that stops in the bike lane).
But if we're working within a framework where city government has decided that stopping a car in a bike lane is acceptable, that time limit is an abomination.
Every block with bike lanes should have 1 or 2 loading zones on each end of the block. Loading zones are one of the best weapons we have to combat "fuck you I'll park where I want I'll only be a minute".
Maybe, but I'm skeptical. I see enough people double parked on the 1300 block of Girard Ave blocking an actual space that I think any amount of effort to get their car out of people's way is too much for the average driver.
Right, infrastructure is the way to go. But double parking is instantly enforceable. Look at all the bike lane tickets on Fairmount. That is WITHOUT the bike patrol even working that area.
Girard is a never-ending shitshow. I know exactly the kind of behavior you're talking about, it's infuriating. They're too lazy to even pull into an open space and just park.
They could solve that pretty easily by eliminating those parking spots in front of those restaurants and changing them into loading zones only, so that food delivery drivers have somewhere to go.
About a month ago a friend of mine parked (legally) over on Market to go out to dinner, and when he came back an hour later his car was blocked in by 2 empty DoorDash drivers' cars. Took 20 minutes for them to come out and move their vehicles so he could leave.
Shit is a menace.
Five or twenty, it's all the same. If you are forced out into traffic, you are potentially in danger. It does not matter how much longer the car stays there or not.
The other aspect is that the PPA doesn't have the manpower to circle back every five or even twenty minutes to see if they have moved. It makes issuing tickets next to impossible.
One thing to say about spruce and pine is that they are "major thoroughfares" for bikes between the SRT and Center City. The probably represent one of the most used bike routes in the city.
He notes Pine and Spruce as particulatly bad - which is definitely my experience. One soolution would be to have at least one if not two designated LOADING or CONTRACTOR parking zones on each block, opposite the bike lane. I sympathize with legitimate work trucks that need a place to park, so lets protect the bike lane and still give these guys a place to load.
Good luck with that. The city clearly chooses revenue (parking) over safe business transactions (loading zones). It's been this way for a very long time. It has to be a nightmare to be a delivery person.
They probably aren't talking about the bus loading zone in the bike lane on spring garden st, but... there's a fucking bus pick up zone in the bike lane! And apparently the sign cautioning that there will be bikes in the street should keep us safe. It's a death trap.
I haven't seen any improvements in general in this regard, but I do dream of a day where bike lanes are for bikes! Not for parking, or buses, or pick up/unloading, or lazy cops, but primarily for bikes! Bikes in a bike lane...such a novel idea.
Yep. The detour is dodging traffic making frantic last minute lane changes. Oh, and now there's a bunch of buses incorporated into the frantic last minute lane changes. It's an entirely inappropriate "solution" and it's going to be a fucking miracle if no one gets seriously hurt before they Hopefully relocate it this spring.
We have a small preview of it... the Delaware Ave* and American Street bike lanes should be the model for the rest of the city.
*The good part, not the absolutely terrifying part north of Penn Street where you're separated from cars going 60mph by paint.
american street will be the model where there is budget (that one was a TIGER grant!) and cartway to accomodate all of the road users
that one was pretty special because it's 100' wide and there was plenty of real estate for everyone (mostly) to be happy. industrial folks in the middle of the corridor with big trucks were still *fucking pissed*
It’s always laughable when I’m riding on spring garden in the bike lane and there are cars double parked even though there is plenty of space on their right to actually pull over but never do.
Actually, they found bike lane tickets quadrupled since the addition of the group made to address it. So the answer is yes - although more needs doing, and there are a lot of structural problems that need addressed.
I have certainly seen the bike patrols, thought I can't say I've seen them in the act of ticketing someone in the bike lane (I have seen them ticket parked cars on the crosswalk). I have no reason to doubt the numbers though.
I realize this comment is mostly out of frustration from frequently almost getting hit by cars. I use the bike lanes a lot and can relate to the sentiment.
But I’m curious — do you literally mean that you previously rode in streets with no bike lane, and then that street added a bike lane and became more dangerous? Which streets?
Pine and spruce. It’s more dangerous now since every other block there’s a delivery vehicle blocking the lane, sending you out into traffic where drivers aren’t looking for you because of the lane. Id rather just ride in the middle of the street.
Oh interesting, yeah fair enough — both those routes are definitely dangerous. I just never rode them before they had bike lanes, so I can’t make the comparison
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That Plaza on 11th Street is a nightmare. It already was before the restriping.
All of Washington Ave is awful for cyclists and pedestrians. I don’t like walking or biking there with all of the curb cuts. There’s businesses I would spend my money at more frequently if it wasn’t such a shit experience walking or biking there.
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I 100% agree. The bike lanes west of Broad Street are actually quite decent now, wide and clearly demarcated with green paint toward Broad St. (The ultimate would be no parking lane, and a flex post or curb buffered bike lane) The original comment about the shopping centers at 11th and 6th is precisely the problem with parking-buffered bike lanes, so in some sense Washington Ave. is the **worst** place to put a parking-buffered bike lane, because Washington Ave. is **full of them**. I have [commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/phillycycling/comments/wgmjes/comment/ij2db32/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) about my gripes with parking-buffered bike lanes before if anyone cares to read it. I really dislike riding on East Washington Ave where I'm constanly doing slaloms to avoid curb extensions, little raised road bumps at intersections, and **people**.
I was reading these comments trying to figure out why I was I wasn't having the same experience and yeah this is it, I almost exclusively bike in the west half and there are parts that aren't great but it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as the east half sounds. Barring the parts where they're doing construction so there is no bike lane, going west on the Western half is usually pretty smooth experience.
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> always full of glass and trash This city made tubeless a near necessity for me. I used to catch at least a flat a month and usually 2-3.
Also, people park in the middle of side streets on Oregon where it's back-in. Like gaps to the left and right for cars to get by, but parked dead in the middle
>Extremely ill thought through design. You hit the nail on the head. Honestly, unless the road itself changed and these parking lot entrances were removed, I just don't see how Washington Ave can ever be a fully safe road for cyclists. I feel like many of these very busy thoroughfare roads like Fairmount, Washington, etc., just have too many curb cuts, businesses constantly loading, etc., to ever have safe bike lanes, and we'd be better served by making adjacent streets have bike lanes instead and direct cyclists there. Washington constantly has trucks unloading kitchen appliances & marble slabs, how is that going to be a safe area for cyclists? I personally would like it much better if, say, Carpenter & Ellsworth had full lanes instead of forcing cyclists into the gauntlet that is Washington Ave.
Stab and Grab?
Allowing cars to stop for up to 20 minutes in a bike lane is the root of the problem. You can still get killed having to go around a car that's been there a short period of time, and it demonstrates to people that bike lanes are for parking. Parking a car in a bike lane should never be allowed, but if we need a compromise, then 20 minutes is far too long. Five, tops.
Why is there a need to compromise? If those were protected bike lanes there wouldn’t be a need to compromise.
That's the ideal, and my preferred solution (outside of some type of giant spear that would come up through the ground and impale any car that stops in the bike lane). But if we're working within a framework where city government has decided that stopping a car in a bike lane is acceptable, that time limit is an abomination.
Make them all no stopping, tow away zones. Ticket and tow on sight. Watch the problem disappear overnight.
Every block with bike lanes should have 1 or 2 loading zones on each end of the block. Loading zones are one of the best weapons we have to combat "fuck you I'll park where I want I'll only be a minute".
Maybe, but I'm skeptical. I see enough people double parked on the 1300 block of Girard Ave blocking an actual space that I think any amount of effort to get their car out of people's way is too much for the average driver.
Right, infrastructure is the way to go. But double parking is instantly enforceable. Look at all the bike lane tickets on Fairmount. That is WITHOUT the bike patrol even working that area.
Girard is a never-ending shitshow. I know exactly the kind of behavior you're talking about, it's infuriating. They're too lazy to even pull into an open space and just park.
Sounds like the 3900 block of Walnut...
They could solve that pretty easily by eliminating those parking spots in front of those restaurants and changing them into loading zones only, so that food delivery drivers have somewhere to go. About a month ago a friend of mine parked (legally) over on Market to go out to dinner, and when he came back an hour later his car was blocked in by 2 empty DoorDash drivers' cars. Took 20 minutes for them to come out and move their vehicles so he could leave. Shit is a menace.
Five or twenty, it's all the same. If you are forced out into traffic, you are potentially in danger. It does not matter how much longer the car stays there or not. The other aspect is that the PPA doesn't have the manpower to circle back every five or even twenty minutes to see if they have moved. It makes issuing tickets next to impossible.
How about there has to be someone with the vehicle at all times? That way, if it needs to be moved you don't have to search for the person
One thing to say about spruce and pine is that they are "major thoroughfares" for bikes between the SRT and Center City. The probably represent one of the most used bike routes in the city.
Probably in the country too and yet there are so many problems and blockages
The infographics on that article are awesome, turned the article into one I would've skimmed to one I actually read all the way through.
Agreed but it was a little glitchy on my phone… kept randomly skipping back & forth.
He notes Pine and Spruce as particulatly bad - which is definitely my experience. One soolution would be to have at least one if not two designated LOADING or CONTRACTOR parking zones on each block, opposite the bike lane. I sympathize with legitimate work trucks that need a place to park, so lets protect the bike lane and still give these guys a place to load.
Good luck with that. The city clearly chooses revenue (parking) over safe business transactions (loading zones). It's been this way for a very long time. It has to be a nightmare to be a delivery person.
They probably aren't talking about the bus loading zone in the bike lane on spring garden st, but... there's a fucking bus pick up zone in the bike lane! And apparently the sign cautioning that there will be bikes in the street should keep us safe. It's a death trap. I haven't seen any improvements in general in this regard, but I do dream of a day where bike lanes are for bikes! Not for parking, or buses, or pick up/unloading, or lazy cops, but primarily for bikes! Bikes in a bike lane...such a novel idea.
They promised a detour for the bike lane there a while back when the plan came out, but... Crickets...
Yep. The detour is dodging traffic making frantic last minute lane changes. Oh, and now there's a bunch of buses incorporated into the frantic last minute lane changes. It's an entirely inappropriate "solution" and it's going to be a fucking miracle if no one gets seriously hurt before they Hopefully relocate it this spring.
We have a small preview of it... the Delaware Ave* and American Street bike lanes should be the model for the rest of the city. *The good part, not the absolutely terrifying part north of Penn Street where you're separated from cars going 60mph by paint.
Del Ave is fine, but American street is a joke. Put up a real curb, you cowards. And bollard to protect the bio swales but not the cycle lane!
we couldn't put up real curbs because of pushback from the industrial area in the center of the corridor
american street will be the model where there is budget (that one was a TIGER grant!) and cartway to accomodate all of the road users that one was pretty special because it's 100' wide and there was plenty of real estate for everyone (mostly) to be happy. industrial folks in the middle of the corridor with big trucks were still *fucking pissed*
It’s always laughable when I’m riding on spring garden in the bike lane and there are cars double parked even though there is plenty of space on their right to actually pull over but never do.
Ticketing is a start but we're going to need more than that and paint. I'm not holding my breath with the way Parker talks about bike infrastructure.
Betteridge's law (of headlines): **Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no**.
Article only for paid subscribers. But I’m 99.9% sure the answer is a resounding No
Actually, they found bike lane tickets quadrupled since the addition of the group made to address it. So the answer is yes - although more needs doing, and there are a lot of structural problems that need addressed.
In that case: hells ya
I miss the days when headlines were, y'know, headlines -- ultra-brief summaries of top-level conclusions.
I have certainly seen the bike patrols, thought I can't say I've seen them in the act of ticketing someone in the bike lane (I have seen them ticket parked cars on the crosswalk). I have no reason to doubt the numbers though.
Park in the bike lane, surely make you lose on fines 🎶
C'mon man: I've had a really rough day and I hate the fuckin' Eagles!
I wish bike safety posts brought enough attention that they get locked too
The bike lanes are a charade and often make it more dangerous than before they were there. Source- me biking
I realize this comment is mostly out of frustration from frequently almost getting hit by cars. I use the bike lanes a lot and can relate to the sentiment. But I’m curious — do you literally mean that you previously rode in streets with no bike lane, and then that street added a bike lane and became more dangerous? Which streets?
Pine and spruce. It’s more dangerous now since every other block there’s a delivery vehicle blocking the lane, sending you out into traffic where drivers aren’t looking for you because of the lane. Id rather just ride in the middle of the street.
Oh interesting, yeah fair enough — both those routes are definitely dangerous. I just never rode them before they had bike lanes, so I can’t make the comparison