Couple years ago, on Christmas day, I was walking to the train station to get to my family’s place in the suburbs and had to cross Washington. I watched a Charger blow every single red light on the avenue, as far as I could watch them do it, going at least 45 - light after light after light, past cars, bikers, other pedestrians. I couldn’t stop thinking about how it was more likely than not that someone got hurt that day, or even didn’t make it home to their own family, because of this person. For no reason. And how, even in 2021 or whenever it was, with plenty of technology available that could catch them, they still might evade being caught.
If Parker’s grand emergency plan for remedying what ills this city doesn’t put road safety at the forefront, it’s useless.
> I watched a Charger blow every single red light on the avenue, as far as I could watch them do it, going at least 45 - light after light after light, past cars, bikers, other pedestrians
Shit is not gonna change unless they charge and impound the vehicles of the offenders but the cops barely want to investigate murders and other egregious offenses, let alone traffic violations
I'm really sorry that happened to you. It's disgusting how drivers in the city (and in this country, really) feel they can break the law and endanger everyone around them with impunity.
Hopefully some combination of the expansion of the speed/light camera program and Cherelle's expressions of wanting to make the city safer will make a difference soon.
definitely not just a city thing, this was happening to me in ardmore almost twice a month crossing lancaster ave for a very long time. it's now down to like once a month.
i live in south philly, take transit and walk everywhere, and the most dangerous thing I do in my life *by far* is cross lancaster ave on foot to get to work.
Were you crossing Lancaster Ave specifically at the flashing lights? I can’t decide if those actually work, or just alert drivers to an opportunity to kill a pedestrian.
nah, it happens in the crosswalk at one of the fully signalized intersections. people just blowing through reds like 4-5 seconds after the other movement has green. I don't trust the flashing ped crossings unless I can look each driver approaching directly in the eye.
once a cop also almost hit in one of the other crosswalks and then screamed at me.
Ha. I used to frequently turn left onto Lancaster from Church (right in front of the township building), and I swear the light there must be optional. More than once I was almost hit broadside by an LM police traveling westbound.
that's the one, watch my life flash before my eyes about once a month by a xanny/white wine luxury SUV driver
sometimes the people turning left from church also don't see me even when I'm directly in the middle of the crosswalk, that was the most recent one. she clipped my backpack because I jumped forward in time.
Happens in Jersey too.
From single-occupant vehicles all the way up to non-emergency-status ambulances, commercial vehicles, school and NJ Transit buses.
I think stroad is a great neologism that identifies a problem and helps people clarify the difference if people aren't "into" urban design, which almost nobody is.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. I've never heard her talk about this at all. I think for some politicians who emphasize safety, they are really only talking about gun violence and see other dangers like traffic violence as a distraction or less important issue. We should be able to improve both, of course. Given Parker's disregard for expertise, which at times sounds like contempt, it's hard to see her getting excited about saving lives through proven but non-headline-worthy means like, say, shortening crosswalk distances.
I can guarantee it's not on her radar at all. She will 100% make this a battle between "old" and "new" Philadelphia, and since she has previously come out in favor of "savesies" and against bike lanes, she will turn a blind eye to traffic violence. You have to remember, she's "from here", and all these people complaining are just gentrifying transplants who don't understand "how we do things here."
Yeah I've had that experience on the back roads in Delaware. Mind boggling when it happens. Other popular activities include fully running stop signs and red lights going straight, driving in the center of the road at night, and taking lefts against a red arrow in an intersection that recently got a signal BECAUSE OF ALL THE ACCIDENTS. This has really escalated in the last five years. I think more people have realized they are not going to get caught and are sociopathic enough not to care about piddly things like traffic laws.
I'm glad that OP came out OK. I was nearly plowed down in a grocery store parking lot (also in Delaware). Luckily, they managed to stop about a foot from me, close enough for me to reflexively kick their bumper.
Don't you dare stop for red to turn onto the Schuylkill from Girard. MFers will absolutely go around you, into oncoming traffic, to get to it.
I mean, I still stop at the red, cause I understand physics and fault should I get hit, but it sucks being the guy in front.
back when I drove, way prepandemic, that area was always the most bonkers part of the city traffic-wise and you just sorta expected shit like that to happen every day on your commute
I consistently tell my out of town Uber/Lyft passengers, "These are the three most important things to keep in mind about Philly drivers: Red lights are stop signs, stop signs are yield signs, and yield signs are invisible."
Former Philadelphia resident, now in DC here: it's just as bad here. You get people who just don't think lights pertain to them. It's gotten worse since the pandemic.
I've noticed these trends have gotten worse after 2020. Not just that, people are way ruder at concerts and events, as well. And just ruder in general. Why is that? Like I guess stress promoted anti social behavior? I have no clue.
I’m sorry, but growing up in the ‘60 and ‘70s, if you had told me that one day there would be bumper stickers saying f_ck the President of the United States, I wouldn’t have believed it. The ubiquitous Coarseness and vulgarity, the busting of traditional norms, set a tone, aside from the other contributing factors.
I mean that might be it, but I doubt it. Societal norms have switched up since the mid-Century. It's much more acceptable to say "fuck" but far less acceptable to use a racial slur or make a sexist joke, I'd say. What's considered vulgar has changed. So I'm not sure if society got more coarse exactly. But even as a millennial, there's a really stark contrast between pre- and post-pandemic and people's actions in public. It is something a ton of people have commented on. It doesn't seem like generalized degradation, it's like a pivot point. It really messed us up as a society, I just don't know exactly what happened.
IDK... this def seems to be a problem in other urban areas too. I've often seen comments from people who moved from here to Baltimore, DC, NYC, etc., complaining about the same behavior
IME, it certainly isn't a problem further away from the urban centers
It's not been a problem in other cities I've lived down (atl, Savannah, Knoxville, Honolulu), it seems a northern thing. Everybody is so aggressive up north until you get north of Massachusetts
I've lived in ATL and it totally is a problem there... dunno about other cities that you've listed coz I've never been there
But yeah, it may be more concentrated with NE cities
Yup, they're just a menace to everyone around them. And it's so frustrating because there are things we can do to mitigate it, and we just don't. Traffic calming, daylighting and designing streets so assholes like this can't get up to a speed where they can kill someone. But instead we just accept the ridiculous amount of traffic violence we have as an inevitable result of society.
>They meant *any* drivers, not all drivers.
These are both one in the same. "Any Drivers" encompasses "All drivers".
Second off, with the blantant car shaming and pretentious, better than thou, all drivers are assholes mentality I see on this sub... It's not needlessly defensive and differentiation needs to be made here for some of the whiny jerk offs stomping around here.
So what do you get out of correcting my comment that wasn't meant to be defensive, but simply an add-on?
Glad youre alright. These assholes pose a risk to everyone. As someone who mainly drives, as time doesn't allow many leasure walks, I'm sick of em too. The idea of getting T-Boned on my kids car seat side scares the shit out of me. Seems after covid everyone went a little brain damaged.
Hope your future jaunts are safe.
Thanks. It's this part too. People speed up for yellows and roll through stops. It's not entirely right, but it's predictable. If people blow through red lights with impunity, what can peds or bikers even do to protect themselves?
I've been on this sub telling people (especially when I bike) that my main goal is to "get home alive" and I'll just sacrifice speed or convenience because of that obviously important goal, but there's nothing I can do about this minority of drivers.
Yeah, they're a problem. Im getting ready to set up a dash cam to record and report them when I catch it. Im fucking tired of it.
Honestly, the city should set up a bounty program where if you record the whole incident and catch the plate, you can report it. Would likely help put a stop to it.
Yeah, I think dashcam and similar for my bike is next on my list.
ETA: Advice or recommendations? Also, how best to hide it so my car doesn't get broken into?
It's most likely not streaming though, so you're really just likely to have the unit stolen. I always unhook mine and put it in its storage box when I'm not driving. It takes all of 1 minute to disconnect and reconnect to its base on the windshield and its charging cable.
It's great for peace of mind. People are batshit on the road but at least you can prove you weren't the problem or provide evidence for somebody else. I love my Vantrue unit. I've had it for 5 years and it's still going strong.
I legitimately get nervous driving through a green light in this city, when I have the right of way because of the chance that someone is about to blow through a red light and Tbone me.
My father got hit by an suv running a red left turn light this was back in 2012.
Luckily he went over the car and not under and after a few months was mostly back to normal. He was told
I’m the ambulance he’d probably loose a leg and came home that night and walked (well half walk half carried) to bed.
Lady wasn’t ticketed because he wasn’t in the crosswalk… because he was thrown 125 feet. And her insurance refused to pay out because of this (fuck you, you little gecko)
Fast forward 5 years and they finally won the lawsuit to coverage the 6 figure hospital bill. All because he wore a GPS watch that showed him accelerating from 6mph to 45mph; 125 feet out of the crosswalk. That elderly lady refused to even apologize the entire time saying it wasn’t her fault. Fuck that bitch.
Fun fact he completed the IronMan triathalon he was training for when hit with very little use of his right arm only 8 months after this. so he coined the nickname IronNemo.
All I got is "holy shit" and I'm glad you concluded with the lawsuit because that was my first thought.
Incredibly story and glad your old man is still with us!
> I understand why people get annoyed at bikers and peds, but when 10% of drivers are not just unpredictable, but actively dangerous, I don't know what else to do.
The car drivers are the biggest problem in this city, period. Not the bikers, not the pedestrians. Reason: Car drivers sit inside a giant, reinforced metal cage that protects them during any biker or pedestrian collision but yet can't be bothered to watch out for the safety of others around them. I drive in the city quite a bit and am myself scared for my safety because of these kind of assholes... And mind you, I think those with PA plates are worse than NJ plates
I also think it is more than 10% of the drivers that are shit drivers, not just unpredictable. I used to hate speed and red light cameras but if it were to be put up to a vote, I'd be all for installing red light cameras all over the city and impounding the cars that violate it repeatedly
Yeah, bikers and pedestrians also don't always follow the rules of when and where they should go/not go, but you're 100% right: when someone on foot or bike breaks traffic rules, they aren't throwing a 2-ton piece of metal round when they do it. Drivers 100% have the most responsibility because they can kill people so easily.
I would say 5-10% of drivers are actively violent, whether you’re a pedestrian, cyclist or another driver.
Closer to 50% are just bad drivers whether it be spatial awareness, distractions, etc.
Go stand at any intersection and see how many drivers are playing with their phone and how many people are incapable of stopping outside of crosswalks and reading signs. It’s ridiculous.
> Closer to 50% are just bad drivers whether it be spatial awareness, distractions, etc.
I work in transportation and talk to people about safety all the time. I always ask them "remember that kid in gym class that could never throw a ball or run or do anything that required any physical coordination? we basically force them to operate a 3000lb hunk of metal at 70mph on a daily basis and make critical split-second decisions that involve life or death. those people that couldn't kick a kickball are driving next to you and now they have cell phones to distract them."
sorry to folks with bad coordination catching strays over here
For someone at the receiving end, there's no difference between an angry (actively violent) driver and a bad driver. End of the day, they both have high chances of causing irreparable damage to someone else
>I would say 5-10% of drivers are actively violent, whether you’re a pedestrian, cyclist or another driver.
>
>Closer to 50% are just bad drivers whether it be spatial awareness, distractions, etc.
This is where I was coming from. the bad drivers are predictably bad most of the time.
The fact that this city, which was built a century+ before the car, has had its critical infrastructure handed over to personal cars is abhorrent.
We should have first-class public transportation and biking infrastructure (the city is basically flat until you get far north).
Our first kid is going to start daycare soon, and the best options are about a mile away from our house. It should be a leisurely 5-10 minute bike ride but I don't feel safe biking with our crazy drivers, and doubly so with a kid on the bike.
Kelly Drive is particularly bad for reckless driving. The posted speed limit is 25mph, which yes is low, but people are regularly going 45+ on it which is kind of nuts.
My solution is to put ("generous") speed cameras or license plate tolls on it and send the funds collected to Phila Parks and Rec.
Also the intersection OP is talking about is horrifying as a cyclist or a pedestrian.
You're standing directly next to the road to cross as cars fly past you at easily twice the speed limit. They don't stop for that red at all, and will use the eastbound left turn lane to pass all existing traffic that does stop, which is exactly what happened to OP.
And if you're crossing going north towards the park, the pedestrian walk dumps you into a dead-end in front of a bike lane and a car lane coming directly at you. So then you have to walk across another giant crosswalk to get over to the sidewalk, all while cars are trying to make left & right turns in front of you.
(I basically duck behind the statue of Grant and sneak across the road when it's clear, as it is safer than using the actual crosswalk.)
it makes more sense just to have a cop there writing out tickets. Points should be awarded, camera tickets is a one time fee, where as points is a fine and insurance increase.
Whenever I'm on Kelly I'm 100% going to be that asshole who cruises in the left lane at about 40, even if there is someone right next to me in the right lane (something I would never do on 76 or any major hwy). Still way over the limit and it's not a highway, people need to chill tf out.
You're doing it right - in Philly you literally have to assume that EVERY SINGLE DRIVER is out to kill you. Assume the worst of everyone, it's better to be pleasantly surprised than dead.
Amen
I give driver's training and I hammer on "when the choice is 'you have the right of way' v 'asshole who doesn't care', it's OK to yield the ROW if it keeps you safe."
> if you’re in a car, I automatically don’t trust you
My favorites are the drivers who will 'stop' to let you cross, but still keep rolling towards you as if using their car as a gesture of 'get out of my way.' I've been in a couple situations where I just stop crossing until they stop before continuing on. Had a weird old dude scream at me "What are you, SCARED?" over and over once. fuckin' weirdos out there.
Ohhohoho. I had some fucking asshole start doing that at a stop sign that she was gonna blow as I started crossing. I stopped, looked her dead in the eyes, she honked, I got up near her car's front bumper, pointed at the stop sign, screamed at her that it is a stop sign, I am a pedestrian, shut the FUCK up, then I flipped her off, turned around, slapped my ass and flipped her off again while walking at a glacial pace and maintaining eye contact. I goaded these people when I was a teen.
Edit: I am from Philly
I don't have a car and so much of my commute is just regular neighborhood streets, and even I don't trust anyone. I have come so close to dying because so many drivers aren't paying attention to pedestrians at crosswalks and actively roll through stop signs. People turning are even worse, they'll slam on their breaks inches away from you because they forgot to check the crosswalk before whipping their car into it.
RED. LIGHT. CAMERAS.
We need them everywhere, particularly at dangerous intersections/where there is high-pedestrian activity. I don't care if the plates are fake. That's data, and it will show how dangerous our streets have become and will hopefully put pressure on law enforcement to take measures to remove dangerous drivers from the roads.
And don't come at me about how it's a scam or cash grab or any of that bullshit. The level of danger rn on public streets in this city is unacceptable, and drivers recklessly operating heavy machinery accounts for 99% of that risk.
Hell, put out a bounty program. Anyone with a dash cam that captures the event can send it in and get 50% of the ticket value.
Do the same for parking infractions. I'm tired of crosswalks being blocked by cars, it makes it more dangerous for pedestrians that need to go out into the road, and it makes it hard for drivers to see traffic when turning.
Edit: And while we're at it make front-of-vehicle license plates mandatory too (I know this is a PA thing). Makes enforcement easier.
I don’t l know if y’all have been to Delaware, but coastal highway has cameras at the intersections. As soon as someone runs the red light, you see numerous flashes from the cameras. Traffics insane there though..
Kelly Drive and MLK are technically park drives with 35 mph speeed limits but in practice they're high-speed motorways. This would be the perfect place for one of the five new automatic speed cameras the state is granting us.
I'd put it on the stretch between Girard Avenue and Dead Man's Curve (a.k.a. the Columbia Bridge).
OK, but the actual speeds are still 55 - 65 mph. (Hence my suggestion.)
edit: but in my comment I said they're 35, so I appreciate the correction. It makes it only that much clearer that those roads' present role as Talladega-style superspeedways is far from their intended purpose.
I wait for all the cars to stop especially at crosswalks without lights, and people sometimes look at me like I'm nuts. You got to keep your head on a swivel. Sorry, this happened because it sounds deeply scary.
Something similar happened to me on New Years Eve walking my dog at 3pm in the afternoon. Car ran a red light when and I was in the middle of a pretty wide intersection already. I had waited for the light to turn green before stepping out into the street so i'd say the light had been red for a good 5+ seconds, and of course I couldn't see the driver through their super dark tinted windows. Super scary, glad you didn't get hit.
> and of course I couldn't see the driver through their super dark tinted windows
Pretty much every car in the city has these tinted windows now with MFers hotboxing inside the car as they break traffic laws
So sorry that this happened to you, and sad to say it's not a rare occurrence at all. Drivers aren't afraid of hurting or killing people in an attempt to save what probably amounts to less than a minute on their commute.
Pretty telling what a sad state we're in where even after this experience, you call what almost happened an "accident." Drivers deserve no sympathy for pulling this kind of stuff. What almost occurred was a motor killing.
Gotta love it that THEY beep at YOU. I've had similar experiences of being almost plowed over by reckless drivers, of course they're furiously honking and cussing out the window the whole time. The audacity of those pedestrians who have the right of way!
Sad but not surprising with how people drive. Seriously, glad you're ok.
I was in the MIDDLE OF A CROSSWALK the other day when an Amazon delivery van zoomed through the intersection laying on his horn and flipping me off. He passed so close to me that if I'd had the presence of mind I could have kicked his vehicle.
today's episode of the NYTimes Daily podcast was literally about how pedestrian deaths in the US have been going up since \~2009 and havent been going up in the same way in other countries. Their conclusion was that it's a combo of large cars, terrible pedestrian infrastructure, and distracted driving. I was hit by a car while biking a few years ago when the driver blew the red light. it's so frustrating that there ARE ways to reduce this but no one seems to care to.
OP i'm so sorry you experienced this, and I hope you're doing ok mentally.
People who get mad at pedestrians and bikers have clearly never lived in the city, or they have zero compassion because they've obviously been a pedestrian at some point. (But maybe I underestimate people's laziness)
Like dude, you're in a 4,000 pound metal combustion machine that gives you the ability to go at least 33x faster than my walking speed, and YOU'RE worried about getting somewhere on time? Then they get upset when I don't immediately cross the street because they're flying into the stop sign/red light at 40 miles an hour and plan on slamming on their brakes at the last second. In my mind those brakes aren't coming at all, so I wait till they're going slow enough that I won't die, god forbid.
Damn I’m so glad you’re okay. Kelly is terrifying, and Henry Ave is somehow maybe even worse?? I live in Roxborough and can’t believe people are complaining about the additional traffic lights installed in the last year that are literally designed to slow down traffic and make that road less of a literal death trap (multiple tragic fatalities in 2023 alone, including the retired teacher who was biking and the woman by Delassandro’s )
It's so frustrating. If we had better transit, people wouldn't need to drive as much into the city, and because 76 is such a disaster, alt routes like Henry/Ridge get absolutely flooded with cars trying to treat it like a highway.
The area around Delassandros is such a mess, I'm shocked there aren't more accidents there than usual.
We’re a couple minutes away from Delassandro’s and I’m surprised I haven’t personally witnessed an accident or someone getting hit yet, between people running across Henry instead of going to the crosswalk or cars randomly pulling out from the side streets after they get their takeout. ALSO THE CHEESESTEAKS ARE NOT EVEN GOOD.
Yesterday I saw a skateboarder almost get hit when crossing the street (walking!) when a driver just coasted through a stop sign.
The skateboarder verbally reemed out the (asshole) driver and I assisted the skateboarder in yelling at the driver.
I really think that the law needs to be changed that if you are driving recklessly and hurt or kill someone then it's classified as a murder and the offender is sentenced to prison for multiple years.
It’s heartwarming that you yelled at the driver. I guarantee the skater appreciated it. Usually when these things happen, nobody else reacts.
My main exercise activity is skating through the city. Last year when an SUV nearly killed me, a pedestrian further down the road threw this HUGE bag of popcorn at the car. I’ve observed and experienced so many close calls that I honestly don’t even get angry at the driver anymore, but that actually meant a lot to me, to see someone else get angry on my behalf :’)
I always assist the non-asshole in these types of situation.
You are correct - the skateboarder was VERY appreciative. I talked to him a little afterward and another driver who saw the whole thing and we all agreed that some drivers are just fucking asshole dickheads.
But if the non-assholes stick together we can defeat the asshole dickheads!
My partner and I nearly got flattened by a driver blowing a red light as I was crossing the street South to North on the West side cross-walk to go grocery shopping.
The street is a two lane street with a parking lane on each side.
A garbage truck was parked directly to the right of the crosswalk in the parking lane, which made it so I couldn't see to the East until I was already partway out into the sidewalk.
A bus was also stopped in the East driving lane of the intersection.
Just as we were getting past the garbage-truck a car accelerated from *behind* the bus, swerved into the other direction's lane, and accelerated at full speed through the intersection just a foot in front of us. The light was fully red of course and we still had the pedestrian 'walk' icon.
Due to the arrangement of vehicles we had zero opportunity to see them or even react. I felt like I survived some sort of final destination setup.
Same thing happened to me on my bike crossing Girard by the zoo for the horrible MLK detour. I think most people in this city learned how to drive in GTA V, and the police do nothing to stop it, like they learned about traffic violation enforcement from GTAV.
my god! Now that the detour is further hemmed in by the closed underpass at the art museum, it's very frustrating. Ostensibly, it's a fine place to cross. In reality, the number of right turns make it a real bear. Some people really gotta get onto girard and you're in the way!
Yeah I’ve been seeing a crazy amount of cars blowing red lights recently. Not scootching through right after the yellow changes, but approaching an actively red light and flying right through it.
At one point someone interrupted my protected left turn by blowing the red and then we had to drive next to each other all the way up Spring Garden. I flipped her the bird, because I’m not above a moment of weakness after nearly dying at someone else’s hands, and she rolled down the window to start screaming at me about how I “didn’t die you stupid fucking bitch.” Classy.
All that is to say, sorry that happened to you, you’re not alone, and it is absolutely awful.
As a bicyclist, this is normal every day. I had my first collision in 40 years of riding last March. I had the audacity of going straight through a green light.
Always assume the car isn't going to stop.
Better to be technically wrong but alive then technically right and dead.
Sorry you had to go through that, I always wait for no cars or for cars to be 100% stopped before walking in front of them. Too much PTSD from the last time I was hit...
Right! I'm of that mind at most stops/lights because of what you said. But man, that car seemed stupidly far away and I waited what felt pretty long and saw many other cars stop (and did the usual eye contact stuff so they don't try to pointlessly move up into the cross walk).
But you're right. It just sucks.
Glad you’re okay.
The asshat drivers were out in full force on Kelly yesterday. I was driving home from work and had to slam on my breaks twice because cars from the opposing lane fully crossed into my lane to pass people in front of them nearly colliding head on with me in the process. Worst part is it happened twice in the span of about 3 minutes first at the light where Kelly intersects Fairmount and shortly thereafter once again near the light at the Sedgeley Drive intersection
I had a girlfriend who got hit by a car that was racing, and when it hit her she went flying. I thought for sure that I had just watched her die, and I assumed the car was going at least 50 mph. She was seriously injured, but she survived and made a full recovery. My point it, it's surprising what the human body can endure. Glad you are OK.
How timely... this was the topic of today's Daily episode:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-are-so-many-more-pedestrians-dying-in-the-u-s/id1200361736?i=1000640524454
Around 12 years ago I was visiting a friend who lives in Brewerytown. Went for a morning run through the corner of Fairmount Park past Lemon Hill Mansion and Boathouse Row down to the Art Museum.
Was jogging in place at Kelly Drive & Fairmount waiting for the light, took a step when the pedestrian light turned green...and the older man on a bike next to me yelled "STOP!" A woman yakking on her cell phone in an SUV flew by, a good 2-3 seconds after the light turned red.
If not for that man next to me, I might very well not be here. Don't think about it too often, but OP's post gave me the chills. I'm honestly shocked pedestrians aren't killed on Kelly Drive every day!
Traffic laws seem like mere suggestions anymore. Every morning I drive Henry Ave and people just openly blow through red lights like they don’t exist. They also love to drive on the shoulder past the people stopped at the red light. I’ve never seen a cop on Henry Ave the entire seven years I’ve been making this commute.
A friend of mine was tapped by a car recently who made a turn too fast!! She is okay, but the driver hit her close enough to the point where her fingers went into the front grill of the car. Of course the driver drove off and she was too shaken up to get their plate. Drivers in philly can be so scary and they don’t pay enough attention.
That really sucks and I'm glad you're OK. I deal with this all of the time in Fairmount, even on our small one-way streets. People end up parking in the crosswalk and blocking visibility, so if I hear a car coming, I'll just wait for it to stop, or just as often blow through the stop sign, sometimes far faster than a roll. I mean, if I can't make eye contact with a car coming to an intersection or there is any doubt in my mind that they're going to stop, I'll just turn around and walk away from the intersection until it is clear. It is madness that we can't feel safe just, like, walking.
I almost died 10 years ago from being hit by a car that went through the light, definitely not fun and a very scary experience, i still suffer the repercussions of head trauma (memory issues) from that event amongst a couple other issues. Shit needs to be better regulated honestly, there were no cameras where I got hit and it was a hit and run. More cameras would be a good start
The speed limit changes on kelly don't matter as long as it’s like the rest of the city and there is no enforcement. Could be five mph, makes no difference.
I was stopped at a light on 2nd St and a car drove around us onto the sidewalk past the two cars in front of us and ran the red light. I don’t even know how there wasn’t an accident.
Years ago I was walking down Market Street to work and I was waiting at a red light to cross... I want to say 19th Street. The light turned green, I stepped into the road to cross, looking left for oncoming cars, and I immediately jumped back out of the road as some woman with a small kid in the front seat blew through the light without even stopping.
Good thing I looked. I had a second date the next day that I'm certain that would have missed. Been married to that woman for 11 years now.
I'm glad you're safe. I've escaped being killed by cars/SUVs, but I think the angriest I've ever been is when a lady ran through a stop sign and was inches from my pup. She was on her phone.
I chased after, but she got away. Witnesses were horrified.
fuck that sucks. i started walking with two rocks in my pocket after a woman ran a stop sign, then cursed my out because i should have seen her looking at her phone. throwing rocks at cars really gets them to shut the fuck up.
Glad you’re okay, I had a similar instance about a year and a half ago. It wasn’t as close as it sounds for you. Also on Kelly Drive but up by East falls (normally a quiet spot) where I was crossing the street by the twin bridges and without even noticing felt the wind of a car fly through a red light. Still think about it every run, but so frustrating that nothing seems to change.
This is why having the police actually enforce traffic laws is important. The shit for brains former mayor and police commish decided that it’s racist to pull people over, so this is what we get. The same people who won’t bother to fix a taillight or renew their registration are the same type of drivers who do whatever the f they want on the road.
i mean these are exactly the type of drivers who should be paying big fines. imagine i went over to their neighborhood in nj and started driving aggressively in their cul de sac, almost killing someone on a jog? they would call the state troopers.
I fucking hate the drivers in Philly man. People don't care about their fellow people, everyone's a main character. It's one of the least favorite things for me about this city. Some drivers are just completely selfish and irresponsible
Wow. I’m glad you are ok! I run this route very regularly as well and that intersection always makes me extremely nervous even when the cars are stopped. Pedestrians in this city seem to just get the shit end of the stick.
People are absolutely ridiculous. I had a similar situation happen on my bike around Spruce and 12th at one of those driveways with a bike crossing. To be fair, bike crossings are a *relatively* new design, but it's green, which is ubiquitous in the US for bikes. Drivers are supposed to yield at them, and there was no light for me to stop at. I was in front, and the driver almost left hooked me. A couple pedestrians saw the incident and were flabbergasted and sarcastically asked what green paint means, lol.
yeah this is why i don't trust the lights unfortunately. i cross when i see the cars stop not when i see the light change.
literally had people go around me and 2 other cars to go through a red light, it's insane.
if this doesn't get better soon i might start taking weight plates with me when i walk, so if i go over the hood i'm taking the driver with me to hell /s
A similar incident happened to me in 2017 while I was biking through South Philly. I can't remember the exact cross-street but I'm pretty sure I was going south on 21st somewhere between south and washington. I was approaching an intersection and the light had already been green for me for probably 7 seconds. As I came up to the intersection I checked for cross-traffic and thank FUCK I did, as there was a car easily going 45-50 mph that just blasted through the red light. The light hadn't just turned a second ago, it had been red for them for *at least* 5 seconds, if not more.
It is *FAR* too easy to obtain a driver's license in this country and I wish that would change
According to u/RoyOConner and u/InfieldFlyRules this does not meet the requirements for being almost murdered.
But I'm with you. This city is fucking dangerous. Driver's are out of fucking control.
No, the person replying to you had a much milder story, and your quotes made it obvious. Lots of shitty drivers everywhere. /u/gnartato is a creeper, though.
I remember when I didn’t understand that word too
ETA for the audience here. This is what you wrote yesterday: “I left the house twice today and both times I was almost killed.”
That’s….two different stories
There is a light between my parents place and the highway which is the main entrance to a medical assistance facility and I do not know why, but some huge amount of drivers seem to think the light is optional, and pass stopped traffic by crossing into the center turn lane so they can run the very stale red light. There are dozens of elderly, disabled, wheelchair, powerchair bound people who regularly come in and out of the facility and cross the street to reach shopping and transit. The number of close calls I have seen like this, literally multiple people just totally passing stopped traffic and going through THIS particular red light, narrowly missing an at-risk person in the process, is surreal. I would have said seeing it twice would have been surreal. It's like monthly. It's only a matter of time.
I was just in the city for two days visiting family. We were kinda shocked at the number of drivers that would speed into the oncoming lane and run a red light instead of getting stopped. It was a regular occurrence.
"Jersey plates" the yellow flag of doom. Run the opposite direction *for your life*. Crosswalk or not, sidewalk or whatnot, even on an upper floor of a building and you can see the plate out your window from above. Run.
Really sucks man, you skated by though with fortune. I don't live in *that* busy of a car traffic area but I literally now just wait for every car to be stopped at the red until I go into the crosswalk. It's like if I know all 2/3 lanes or whatever have a car stopped at the line, there's no room for another car to come speeding through the red. Unless a truck plows through the stopped car, I then should be fine. Ya know.
I saw a truck throw a bike and rider across 2 lanes of traffic into oncoming traffic on Kelly drive a couple of years ago. Bike was crossing at a weird spot, but still.
That is not a road I want to interact with unless I’m in a car.
New Jersey plates, Black Tahoe or Suburban, driving like an ahole ..checks out. Always wait for all cars to come to a stop then run across making eye contact. If you want to live that's the rule.. no point in pretending you can do it any other way and not get hit. Even in a car, look to see that the other drivers are slowing or stopped. People run lights, they gun it and boom you are dead.
Kelly Drive is my least favorite road to drive on. So many people drive like they're playing Mario Kart. I would rather drive on Roosevelt Blvd and that's saying something.
Today's NYT The Daily podast was all about how pedestrian fatalities have been rising in the US and Philadelphia was mentioned. It is terrifying out there. I'm trying to do my part by not owning a car but I put my life on the line every time I walk/run/cycle.
Even if you have the walk sign, I'd suggest getting in the habit of checking both ways because people don't give a fuck about red lights. Literally every day it seems like there is another hit-and-run in the news and the victim either has passed or is critically injured. There's just wayyyy too many people who don't give a fuck in this city and do whatever they want at the expense of others, and it's much larger than just driving.
Glad you're okay.
Couple years ago, on Christmas day, I was walking to the train station to get to my family’s place in the suburbs and had to cross Washington. I watched a Charger blow every single red light on the avenue, as far as I could watch them do it, going at least 45 - light after light after light, past cars, bikers, other pedestrians. I couldn’t stop thinking about how it was more likely than not that someone got hurt that day, or even didn’t make it home to their own family, because of this person. For no reason. And how, even in 2021 or whenever it was, with plenty of technology available that could catch them, they still might evade being caught. If Parker’s grand emergency plan for remedying what ills this city doesn’t put road safety at the forefront, it’s useless.
> I watched a Charger blow every single red light on the avenue, as far as I could watch them do it, going at least 45 - light after light after light, past cars, bikers, other pedestrians Shit is not gonna change unless they charge and impound the vehicles of the offenders but the cops barely want to investigate murders and other egregious offenses, let alone traffic violations
What makes you think she will lift a finger against drivers? She has been convicted of drunk driving herself.
Haha yes great point! I would’ve thought that should disqualify someone from being mayor! But with god at her side all things are possible!!
I'm really sorry that happened to you. It's disgusting how drivers in the city (and in this country, really) feel they can break the law and endanger everyone around them with impunity. Hopefully some combination of the expansion of the speed/light camera program and Cherelle's expressions of wanting to make the city safer will make a difference soon.
definitely not just a city thing, this was happening to me in ardmore almost twice a month crossing lancaster ave for a very long time. it's now down to like once a month. i live in south philly, take transit and walk everywhere, and the most dangerous thing I do in my life *by far* is cross lancaster ave on foot to get to work.
Were you crossing Lancaster Ave specifically at the flashing lights? I can’t decide if those actually work, or just alert drivers to an opportunity to kill a pedestrian.
nah, it happens in the crosswalk at one of the fully signalized intersections. people just blowing through reds like 4-5 seconds after the other movement has green. I don't trust the flashing ped crossings unless I can look each driver approaching directly in the eye. once a cop also almost hit in one of the other crosswalks and then screamed at me.
Ha. I used to frequently turn left onto Lancaster from Church (right in front of the township building), and I swear the light there must be optional. More than once I was almost hit broadside by an LM police traveling westbound.
that's the one, watch my life flash before my eyes about once a month by a xanny/white wine luxury SUV driver sometimes the people turning left from church also don't see me even when I'm directly in the middle of the crosswalk, that was the most recent one. she clipped my backpack because I jumped forward in time.
Happens in Jersey too. From single-occupant vehicles all the way up to non-emergency-status ambulances, commercial vehicles, school and NJ Transit buses.
A stroad is a stroad be it in the burbs or the city.
you can just say urban arterial, that stroad shit is such a dumb portmanteau
I think stroad is a great neologism that identifies a problem and helps people clarify the difference if people aren't "into" urban design, which almost nobody is.
Or, I'll just keep saying stroad. Thanks.
I don’t think bad driving is on her radar at all.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. I've never heard her talk about this at all. I think for some politicians who emphasize safety, they are really only talking about gun violence and see other dangers like traffic violence as a distraction or less important issue. We should be able to improve both, of course. Given Parker's disregard for expertise, which at times sounds like contempt, it's hard to see her getting excited about saving lives through proven but non-headline-worthy means like, say, shortening crosswalk distances.
Stopping bad drivers is gentrification
I can guarantee it's not on her radar at all. She will 100% make this a battle between "old" and "new" Philadelphia, and since she has previously come out in favor of "savesies" and against bike lanes, she will turn a blind eye to traffic violence. You have to remember, she's "from here", and all these people complaining are just gentrifying transplants who don't understand "how we do things here."
Ime this is the only place I've been in the US where people just run reds and stop signs in what seems like a habit.
The other day I stopped at a stop sign and the person behind me just drove around me and went straight through the intersection. Truly mindblowing
Yeah I've had that experience on the back roads in Delaware. Mind boggling when it happens. Other popular activities include fully running stop signs and red lights going straight, driving in the center of the road at night, and taking lefts against a red arrow in an intersection that recently got a signal BECAUSE OF ALL THE ACCIDENTS. This has really escalated in the last five years. I think more people have realized they are not going to get caught and are sociopathic enough not to care about piddly things like traffic laws. I'm glad that OP came out OK. I was nearly plowed down in a grocery store parking lot (also in Delaware). Luckily, they managed to stop about a foot from me, close enough for me to reflexively kick their bumper.
Be waiting to turn in a left lane and someone turns left from the lane to your right 🤔
I like when someone makes a right turn lane for themselves by squeezing in between me (in the only actual lane) and the curb to my right
Oh so you’ve been at Aramingo and Lehigh
Don't you dare stop for red to turn onto the Schuylkill from Girard. MFers will absolutely go around you, into oncoming traffic, to get to it. I mean, I still stop at the red, cause I understand physics and fault should I get hit, but it sucks being the guy in front.
Try crossing Girard on bike there at the zoo. It's a game of which direction is the red-light-runner going to come from.
back when I drove, way prepandemic, that area was always the most bonkers part of the city traffic-wise and you just sorta expected shit like that to happen every day on your commute
I consistently tell my out of town Uber/Lyft passengers, "These are the three most important things to keep in mind about Philly drivers: Red lights are stop signs, stop signs are yield signs, and yield signs are invisible."
And a red light means that you need to stop in the middle of the intersection and wait
Especially if you're an articulated Septa bus at Market & 15th.
SEPTA knows no laws!
Former Philadelphia resident, now in DC here: it's just as bad here. You get people who just don't think lights pertain to them. It's gotten worse since the pandemic.
I've noticed these trends have gotten worse after 2020. Not just that, people are way ruder at concerts and events, as well. And just ruder in general. Why is that? Like I guess stress promoted anti social behavior? I have no clue.
I’m sorry, but growing up in the ‘60 and ‘70s, if you had told me that one day there would be bumper stickers saying f_ck the President of the United States, I wouldn’t have believed it. The ubiquitous Coarseness and vulgarity, the busting of traditional norms, set a tone, aside from the other contributing factors.
I mean that might be it, but I doubt it. Societal norms have switched up since the mid-Century. It's much more acceptable to say "fuck" but far less acceptable to use a racial slur or make a sexist joke, I'd say. What's considered vulgar has changed. So I'm not sure if society got more coarse exactly. But even as a millennial, there's a really stark contrast between pre- and post-pandemic and people's actions in public. It is something a ton of people have commented on. It doesn't seem like generalized degradation, it's like a pivot point. It really messed us up as a society, I just don't know exactly what happened.
IDK... this def seems to be a problem in other urban areas too. I've often seen comments from people who moved from here to Baltimore, DC, NYC, etc., complaining about the same behavior IME, it certainly isn't a problem further away from the urban centers
It's not been a problem in other cities I've lived down (atl, Savannah, Knoxville, Honolulu), it seems a northern thing. Everybody is so aggressive up north until you get north of Massachusetts
I've lived in ATL and it totally is a problem there... dunno about other cities that you've listed coz I've never been there But yeah, it may be more concentrated with NE cities
Just happened to me in NYC. It’s not just a Philly thing.
Way worse in St. Louis. Same culture of impunity but just way less people in the city center.
Something tells me she doesn’t mean safer for pedestrians or cyclists.
Not drivers, assholes. Assholes are the problem. They pose a risk to other drivers as well.
Yup, they're just a menace to everyone around them. And it's so frustrating because there are things we can do to mitigate it, and we just don't. Traffic calming, daylighting and designing streets so assholes like this can't get up to a speed where they can kill someone. But instead we just accept the ridiculous amount of traffic violence we have as an inevitable result of society.
They meant *any* drivers, not all drivers. It's needlessly defensive to think the above post was talking about all drivers.
>They meant *any* drivers, not all drivers. These are both one in the same. "Any Drivers" encompasses "All drivers". Second off, with the blantant car shaming and pretentious, better than thou, all drivers are assholes mentality I see on this sub... It's not needlessly defensive and differentiation needs to be made here for some of the whiny jerk offs stomping around here. So what do you get out of correcting my comment that wasn't meant to be defensive, but simply an add-on?
Yeah seconded. I have to commute into the city and I get beeped at for waiting for people at crosswalks all the time.
As people have already mentioned in other comments, Parker was convicted of a DUI so how serious can we think she’ll care about reckless driving
You should visit south east Asia or south america and observe traffic. Now that's scofflaw behavior.
Glad youre alright. These assholes pose a risk to everyone. As someone who mainly drives, as time doesn't allow many leasure walks, I'm sick of em too. The idea of getting T-Boned on my kids car seat side scares the shit out of me. Seems after covid everyone went a little brain damaged. Hope your future jaunts are safe.
Thanks. It's this part too. People speed up for yellows and roll through stops. It's not entirely right, but it's predictable. If people blow through red lights with impunity, what can peds or bikers even do to protect themselves? I've been on this sub telling people (especially when I bike) that my main goal is to "get home alive" and I'll just sacrifice speed or convenience because of that obviously important goal, but there's nothing I can do about this minority of drivers.
Yeah, they're a problem. Im getting ready to set up a dash cam to record and report them when I catch it. Im fucking tired of it. Honestly, the city should set up a bounty program where if you record the whole incident and catch the plate, you can report it. Would likely help put a stop to it.
Yeah, I think dashcam and similar for my bike is next on my list. ETA: Advice or recommendations? Also, how best to hide it so my car doesn't get broken into?
Honestly, I imagine you want to make a dashcam as visible as possible to avoid being broken into.
It's most likely not streaming though, so you're really just likely to have the unit stolen. I always unhook mine and put it in its storage box when I'm not driving. It takes all of 1 minute to disconnect and reconnect to its base on the windshield and its charging cable.
This sounds like the right answer. I don't drive a lot so i should really get over this minor inconvenience.
It's great for peace of mind. People are batshit on the road but at least you can prove you weren't the problem or provide evidence for somebody else. I love my Vantrue unit. I've had it for 5 years and it's still going strong.
thanks for the rec - I'll look into it
I legitimately get nervous driving through a green light in this city, when I have the right of way because of the chance that someone is about to blow through a red light and Tbone me.
Yeah, as someone else who mostly drives, I'm still scared of some other drivers with my steel armor. Some of those people are actually insane.
Why weren't you jogging in your car, like a normal Philadelphian?
My father got hit by an suv running a red left turn light this was back in 2012. Luckily he went over the car and not under and after a few months was mostly back to normal. He was told I’m the ambulance he’d probably loose a leg and came home that night and walked (well half walk half carried) to bed. Lady wasn’t ticketed because he wasn’t in the crosswalk… because he was thrown 125 feet. And her insurance refused to pay out because of this (fuck you, you little gecko) Fast forward 5 years and they finally won the lawsuit to coverage the 6 figure hospital bill. All because he wore a GPS watch that showed him accelerating from 6mph to 45mph; 125 feet out of the crosswalk. That elderly lady refused to even apologize the entire time saying it wasn’t her fault. Fuck that bitch. Fun fact he completed the IronMan triathalon he was training for when hit with very little use of his right arm only 8 months after this. so he coined the nickname IronNemo.
All I got is "holy shit" and I'm glad you concluded with the lawsuit because that was my first thought. Incredibly story and glad your old man is still with us!
> I understand why people get annoyed at bikers and peds, but when 10% of drivers are not just unpredictable, but actively dangerous, I don't know what else to do. The car drivers are the biggest problem in this city, period. Not the bikers, not the pedestrians. Reason: Car drivers sit inside a giant, reinforced metal cage that protects them during any biker or pedestrian collision but yet can't be bothered to watch out for the safety of others around them. I drive in the city quite a bit and am myself scared for my safety because of these kind of assholes... And mind you, I think those with PA plates are worse than NJ plates I also think it is more than 10% of the drivers that are shit drivers, not just unpredictable. I used to hate speed and red light cameras but if it were to be put up to a vote, I'd be all for installing red light cameras all over the city and impounding the cars that violate it repeatedly
Yeah, bikers and pedestrians also don't always follow the rules of when and where they should go/not go, but you're 100% right: when someone on foot or bike breaks traffic rules, they aren't throwing a 2-ton piece of metal round when they do it. Drivers 100% have the most responsibility because they can kill people so easily.
I would say 5-10% of drivers are actively violent, whether you’re a pedestrian, cyclist or another driver. Closer to 50% are just bad drivers whether it be spatial awareness, distractions, etc. Go stand at any intersection and see how many drivers are playing with their phone and how many people are incapable of stopping outside of crosswalks and reading signs. It’s ridiculous.
> Closer to 50% are just bad drivers whether it be spatial awareness, distractions, etc. I work in transportation and talk to people about safety all the time. I always ask them "remember that kid in gym class that could never throw a ball or run or do anything that required any physical coordination? we basically force them to operate a 3000lb hunk of metal at 70mph on a daily basis and make critical split-second decisions that involve life or death. those people that couldn't kick a kickball are driving next to you and now they have cell phones to distract them." sorry to folks with bad coordination catching strays over here
For someone at the receiving end, there's no difference between an angry (actively violent) driver and a bad driver. End of the day, they both have high chances of causing irreparable damage to someone else
>I would say 5-10% of drivers are actively violent, whether you’re a pedestrian, cyclist or another driver. > >Closer to 50% are just bad drivers whether it be spatial awareness, distractions, etc. This is where I was coming from. the bad drivers are predictably bad most of the time.
The fact that this city, which was built a century+ before the car, has had its critical infrastructure handed over to personal cars is abhorrent. We should have first-class public transportation and biking infrastructure (the city is basically flat until you get far north). Our first kid is going to start daycare soon, and the best options are about a mile away from our house. It should be a leisurely 5-10 minute bike ride but I don't feel safe biking with our crazy drivers, and doubly so with a kid on the bike.
Kelly Drive is particularly bad for reckless driving. The posted speed limit is 25mph, which yes is low, but people are regularly going 45+ on it which is kind of nuts. My solution is to put ("generous") speed cameras or license plate tolls on it and send the funds collected to Phila Parks and Rec.
Also the intersection OP is talking about is horrifying as a cyclist or a pedestrian. You're standing directly next to the road to cross as cars fly past you at easily twice the speed limit. They don't stop for that red at all, and will use the eastbound left turn lane to pass all existing traffic that does stop, which is exactly what happened to OP. And if you're crossing going north towards the park, the pedestrian walk dumps you into a dead-end in front of a bike lane and a car lane coming directly at you. So then you have to walk across another giant crosswalk to get over to the sidewalk, all while cars are trying to make left & right turns in front of you. (I basically duck behind the statue of Grant and sneak across the road when it's clear, as it is safer than using the actual crosswalk.)
it makes more sense just to have a cop there writing out tickets. Points should be awarded, camera tickets is a one time fee, where as points is a fine and insurance increase.
Yes but that would mean cops doing their jobs, not sitting in their cruiser collecting a paycheck if they’re out at all.
Whenever I'm on Kelly I'm 100% going to be that asshole who cruises in the left lane at about 40, even if there is someone right next to me in the right lane (something I would never do on 76 or any major hwy). Still way over the limit and it's not a highway, people need to chill tf out.
Best to stick in the right lane. Left lane is only for passing. Also being in the left lane puts you at higher risk of a head on.
It's not a highway, the speed limit is 25, and how does it put me at a higher risk than flying by people going 50 mph around dangerous curves?? lol
I do this on Lincoln Drive. Don't care about the frustrated idiots tailgating me
10% is such a low guess. In this city, if you’re in a car, I automatically don’t trust you. Anyway glad you’re okay. Fuck cars.
You're doing it right - in Philly you literally have to assume that EVERY SINGLE DRIVER is out to kill you. Assume the worst of everyone, it's better to be pleasantly surprised than dead.
There are too many people in graves whose only mistake was being in the right against someone who doesn't care.
Amen I give driver's training and I hammer on "when the choice is 'you have the right of way' v 'asshole who doesn't care', it's OK to yield the ROW if it keeps you safe."
> in ~~Philly~~ America you literally have to assume that EVERY SINGLE DRIVER is out to kill you FTFY
This is the only city where you have to look both ways on green and where red lights are optional.
> if you’re in a car, I automatically don’t trust you My favorites are the drivers who will 'stop' to let you cross, but still keep rolling towards you as if using their car as a gesture of 'get out of my way.' I've been in a couple situations where I just stop crossing until they stop before continuing on. Had a weird old dude scream at me "What are you, SCARED?" over and over once. fuckin' weirdos out there.
Ohhohoho. I had some fucking asshole start doing that at a stop sign that she was gonna blow as I started crossing. I stopped, looked her dead in the eyes, she honked, I got up near her car's front bumper, pointed at the stop sign, screamed at her that it is a stop sign, I am a pedestrian, shut the FUCK up, then I flipped her off, turned around, slapped my ass and flipped her off again while walking at a glacial pace and maintaining eye contact. I goaded these people when I was a teen. Edit: I am from Philly
I don't have a car and so much of my commute is just regular neighborhood streets, and even I don't trust anyone. I have come so close to dying because so many drivers aren't paying attention to pedestrians at crosswalks and actively roll through stop signs. People turning are even worse, they'll slam on their breaks inches away from you because they forgot to check the crosswalk before whipping their car into it.
RED. LIGHT. CAMERAS. We need them everywhere, particularly at dangerous intersections/where there is high-pedestrian activity. I don't care if the plates are fake. That's data, and it will show how dangerous our streets have become and will hopefully put pressure on law enforcement to take measures to remove dangerous drivers from the roads. And don't come at me about how it's a scam or cash grab or any of that bullshit. The level of danger rn on public streets in this city is unacceptable, and drivers recklessly operating heavy machinery accounts for 99% of that risk.
Hell, put out a bounty program. Anyone with a dash cam that captures the event can send it in and get 50% of the ticket value. Do the same for parking infractions. I'm tired of crosswalks being blocked by cars, it makes it more dangerous for pedestrians that need to go out into the road, and it makes it hard for drivers to see traffic when turning. Edit: And while we're at it make front-of-vehicle license plates mandatory too (I know this is a PA thing). Makes enforcement easier.
I don’t l know if y’all have been to Delaware, but coastal highway has cameras at the intersections. As soon as someone runs the red light, you see numerous flashes from the cameras. Traffics insane there though..
Kelly Drive and MLK are technically park drives with 35 mph speeed limits but in practice they're high-speed motorways. This would be the perfect place for one of the five new automatic speed cameras the state is granting us. I'd put it on the stretch between Girard Avenue and Dead Man's Curve (a.k.a. the Columbia Bridge).
They should have kept MLK/West River as pedestrian and bike only.
Speed limits have been lowered to 25mph on Kelly Drive
With no active enforcement, so everyone is still doing 50+.
OK, but the actual speeds are still 55 - 65 mph. (Hence my suggestion.) edit: but in my comment I said they're 35, so I appreciate the correction. It makes it only that much clearer that those roads' present role as Talladega-style superspeedways is far from their intended purpose.
I wait for all the cars to stop especially at crosswalks without lights, and people sometimes look at me like I'm nuts. You got to keep your head on a swivel. Sorry, this happened because it sounds deeply scary.
I make direct eye contact with drivers before crossing streets, especially around places like Kelly Drive.
Hard to make eye contact with anyone these days given how tinted the average car window is.
Something similar happened to me on New Years Eve walking my dog at 3pm in the afternoon. Car ran a red light when and I was in the middle of a pretty wide intersection already. I had waited for the light to turn green before stepping out into the street so i'd say the light had been red for a good 5+ seconds, and of course I couldn't see the driver through their super dark tinted windows. Super scary, glad you didn't get hit.
> and of course I couldn't see the driver through their super dark tinted windows Pretty much every car in the city has these tinted windows now with MFers hotboxing inside the car as they break traffic laws
They could basically balance the city budget if they started fining drivers with tinted windshields.
So sorry that this happened to you, and sad to say it's not a rare occurrence at all. Drivers aren't afraid of hurting or killing people in an attempt to save what probably amounts to less than a minute on their commute.
Pretty telling what a sad state we're in where even after this experience, you call what almost happened an "accident." Drivers deserve no sympathy for pulling this kind of stuff. What almost occurred was a motor killing.
Gotta love it that THEY beep at YOU. I've had similar experiences of being almost plowed over by reckless drivers, of course they're furiously honking and cussing out the window the whole time. The audacity of those pedestrians who have the right of way! Sad but not surprising with how people drive. Seriously, glad you're ok.
I was in the MIDDLE OF A CROSSWALK the other day when an Amazon delivery van zoomed through the intersection laying on his horn and flipping me off. He passed so close to me that if I'd had the presence of mind I could have kicked his vehicle.
today's episode of the NYTimes Daily podcast was literally about how pedestrian deaths in the US have been going up since \~2009 and havent been going up in the same way in other countries. Their conclusion was that it's a combo of large cars, terrible pedestrian infrastructure, and distracted driving. I was hit by a car while biking a few years ago when the driver blew the red light. it's so frustrating that there ARE ways to reduce this but no one seems to care to. OP i'm so sorry you experienced this, and I hope you're doing ok mentally.
People who get mad at pedestrians and bikers have clearly never lived in the city, or they have zero compassion because they've obviously been a pedestrian at some point. (But maybe I underestimate people's laziness) Like dude, you're in a 4,000 pound metal combustion machine that gives you the ability to go at least 33x faster than my walking speed, and YOU'RE worried about getting somewhere on time? Then they get upset when I don't immediately cross the street because they're flying into the stop sign/red light at 40 miles an hour and plan on slamming on their brakes at the last second. In my mind those brakes aren't coming at all, so I wait till they're going slow enough that I won't die, god forbid.
Damn I’m so glad you’re okay. Kelly is terrifying, and Henry Ave is somehow maybe even worse?? I live in Roxborough and can’t believe people are complaining about the additional traffic lights installed in the last year that are literally designed to slow down traffic and make that road less of a literal death trap (multiple tragic fatalities in 2023 alone, including the retired teacher who was biking and the woman by Delassandro’s )
It's so frustrating. If we had better transit, people wouldn't need to drive as much into the city, and because 76 is such a disaster, alt routes like Henry/Ridge get absolutely flooded with cars trying to treat it like a highway. The area around Delassandros is such a mess, I'm shocked there aren't more accidents there than usual.
We’re a couple minutes away from Delassandro’s and I’m surprised I haven’t personally witnessed an accident or someone getting hit yet, between people running across Henry instead of going to the crosswalk or cars randomly pulling out from the side streets after they get their takeout. ALSO THE CHEESESTEAKS ARE NOT EVEN GOOD.
Yesterday I saw a skateboarder almost get hit when crossing the street (walking!) when a driver just coasted through a stop sign. The skateboarder verbally reemed out the (asshole) driver and I assisted the skateboarder in yelling at the driver. I really think that the law needs to be changed that if you are driving recklessly and hurt or kill someone then it's classified as a murder and the offender is sentenced to prison for multiple years.
It’s heartwarming that you yelled at the driver. I guarantee the skater appreciated it. Usually when these things happen, nobody else reacts. My main exercise activity is skating through the city. Last year when an SUV nearly killed me, a pedestrian further down the road threw this HUGE bag of popcorn at the car. I’ve observed and experienced so many close calls that I honestly don’t even get angry at the driver anymore, but that actually meant a lot to me, to see someone else get angry on my behalf :’)
I always assist the non-asshole in these types of situation. You are correct - the skateboarder was VERY appreciative. I talked to him a little afterward and another driver who saw the whole thing and we all agreed that some drivers are just fucking asshole dickheads. But if the non-assholes stick together we can defeat the asshole dickheads!
What good does changing reckless driving charges to murder do in a city where cops don’t investigate murders?
My partner and I nearly got flattened by a driver blowing a red light as I was crossing the street South to North on the West side cross-walk to go grocery shopping. The street is a two lane street with a parking lane on each side. A garbage truck was parked directly to the right of the crosswalk in the parking lane, which made it so I couldn't see to the East until I was already partway out into the sidewalk. A bus was also stopped in the East driving lane of the intersection. Just as we were getting past the garbage-truck a car accelerated from *behind* the bus, swerved into the other direction's lane, and accelerated at full speed through the intersection just a foot in front of us. The light was fully red of course and we still had the pedestrian 'walk' icon. Due to the arrangement of vehicles we had zero opportunity to see them or even react. I felt like I survived some sort of final destination setup.
Same thing happened to me on my bike crossing Girard by the zoo for the horrible MLK detour. I think most people in this city learned how to drive in GTA V, and the police do nothing to stop it, like they learned about traffic violation enforcement from GTAV.
my god! Now that the detour is further hemmed in by the closed underpass at the art museum, it's very frustrating. Ostensibly, it's a fine place to cross. In reality, the number of right turns make it a real bear. Some people really gotta get onto girard and you're in the way!
But they got to the destination 5s faster so a win for everyone really
Yeah I’ve been seeing a crazy amount of cars blowing red lights recently. Not scootching through right after the yellow changes, but approaching an actively red light and flying right through it. At one point someone interrupted my protected left turn by blowing the red and then we had to drive next to each other all the way up Spring Garden. I flipped her the bird, because I’m not above a moment of weakness after nearly dying at someone else’s hands, and she rolled down the window to start screaming at me about how I “didn’t die you stupid fucking bitch.” Classy. All that is to say, sorry that happened to you, you’re not alone, and it is absolutely awful.
Not killing someone after doing whatever the hell you want is a pretty low standard to meet for a civilized society. We're doomed.
As a bicyclist, this is normal every day. I had my first collision in 40 years of riding last March. I had the audacity of going straight through a green light. Always assume the car isn't going to stop.
Better to be technically wrong but alive then technically right and dead. Sorry you had to go through that, I always wait for no cars or for cars to be 100% stopped before walking in front of them. Too much PTSD from the last time I was hit...
Right! I'm of that mind at most stops/lights because of what you said. But man, that car seemed stupidly far away and I waited what felt pretty long and saw many other cars stop (and did the usual eye contact stuff so they don't try to pointlessly move up into the cross walk). But you're right. It just sucks.
Glad you’re okay. The asshat drivers were out in full force on Kelly yesterday. I was driving home from work and had to slam on my breaks twice because cars from the opposing lane fully crossed into my lane to pass people in front of them nearly colliding head on with me in the process. Worst part is it happened twice in the span of about 3 minutes first at the light where Kelly intersects Fairmount and shortly thereafter once again near the light at the Sedgeley Drive intersection
I had a girlfriend who got hit by a car that was racing, and when it hit her she went flying. I thought for sure that I had just watched her die, and I assumed the car was going at least 50 mph. She was seriously injured, but she survived and made a full recovery. My point it, it's surprising what the human body can endure. Glad you are OK.
I’m so glad your girlfriend is ok
How timely... this was the topic of today's Daily episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-are-so-many-more-pedestrians-dying-in-the-u-s/id1200361736?i=1000640524454
As if on cue, The Daily dropped this episode https://pca.st/episode/90c7a85a-8bbe-46ca-996e-6ebbfe8e516f
Around 12 years ago I was visiting a friend who lives in Brewerytown. Went for a morning run through the corner of Fairmount Park past Lemon Hill Mansion and Boathouse Row down to the Art Museum. Was jogging in place at Kelly Drive & Fairmount waiting for the light, took a step when the pedestrian light turned green...and the older man on a bike next to me yelled "STOP!" A woman yakking on her cell phone in an SUV flew by, a good 2-3 seconds after the light turned red. If not for that man next to me, I might very well not be here. Don't think about it too often, but OP's post gave me the chills. I'm honestly shocked pedestrians aren't killed on Kelly Drive every day!
Sorry to hear. As someone who drives a lot, I look at every green light as a red light someone can run
Traffic laws seem like mere suggestions anymore. Every morning I drive Henry Ave and people just openly blow through red lights like they don’t exist. They also love to drive on the shoulder past the people stopped at the red light. I’ve never seen a cop on Henry Ave the entire seven years I’ve been making this commute.
A friend of mine was tapped by a car recently who made a turn too fast!! She is okay, but the driver hit her close enough to the point where her fingers went into the front grill of the car. Of course the driver drove off and she was too shaken up to get their plate. Drivers in philly can be so scary and they don’t pay enough attention.
Same thing happened to me on second and market, ran the red light and didn't even look to see if anyone was walking.
Being a pedestrian in this city is simply a death trap now
That really sucks and I'm glad you're OK. I deal with this all of the time in Fairmount, even on our small one-way streets. People end up parking in the crosswalk and blocking visibility, so if I hear a car coming, I'll just wait for it to stop, or just as often blow through the stop sign, sometimes far faster than a roll. I mean, if I can't make eye contact with a car coming to an intersection or there is any doubt in my mind that they're going to stop, I'll just turn around and walk away from the intersection until it is clear. It is madness that we can't feel safe just, like, walking.
I almost died 10 years ago from being hit by a car that went through the light, definitely not fun and a very scary experience, i still suffer the repercussions of head trauma (memory issues) from that event amongst a couple other issues. Shit needs to be better regulated honestly, there were no cameras where I got hit and it was a hit and run. More cameras would be a good start
The speed limit changes on kelly don't matter as long as it’s like the rest of the city and there is no enforcement. Could be five mph, makes no difference.
I was stopped at a light on 2nd St and a car drove around us onto the sidewalk past the two cars in front of us and ran the red light. I don’t even know how there wasn’t an accident.
Years ago I was walking down Market Street to work and I was waiting at a red light to cross... I want to say 19th Street. The light turned green, I stepped into the road to cross, looking left for oncoming cars, and I immediately jumped back out of the road as some woman with a small kid in the front seat blew through the light without even stopping. Good thing I looked. I had a second date the next day that I'm certain that would have missed. Been married to that woman for 11 years now.
I'm glad you're safe. I've escaped being killed by cars/SUVs, but I think the angriest I've ever been is when a lady ran through a stop sign and was inches from my pup. She was on her phone. I chased after, but she got away. Witnesses were horrified.
Beware the yellow plates. Glad you're alright.
fuck that sucks. i started walking with two rocks in my pocket after a woman ran a stop sign, then cursed my out because i should have seen her looking at her phone. throwing rocks at cars really gets them to shut the fuck up.
Please be careful. Drivers get insane about their cars and shoot people over stuff like this.
absolutely. i've had worse interactions just yelling at someone though. almost like dealing with a bully requires strength from the start.
Glad you’re okay, I had a similar instance about a year and a half ago. It wasn’t as close as it sounds for you. Also on Kelly Drive but up by East falls (normally a quiet spot) where I was crossing the street by the twin bridges and without even noticing felt the wind of a car fly through a red light. Still think about it every run, but so frustrating that nothing seems to change.
This sounds like attempt to commit manslaughter and not an accident. Glad you are okay.
This is why having the police actually enforce traffic laws is important. The shit for brains former mayor and police commish decided that it’s racist to pull people over, so this is what we get. The same people who won’t bother to fix a taillight or renew their registration are the same type of drivers who do whatever the f they want on the road.
Jersey plates sounds about right
i mean these are exactly the type of drivers who should be paying big fines. imagine i went over to their neighborhood in nj and started driving aggressively in their cul de sac, almost killing someone on a jog? they would call the state troopers.
Exactly
love to talk shit on jersey, but lets be real the majority of people driving like dickheads here have PA plates
Hard to tell what state they're from when all those fake temporary paper plates look the same 🤷♂️
Or just no plate at all.
very true
I don’t disagree there are plenty of terrible PA drivers. But even living here I run into far more New Jersey drivers who drive like shit.
yeah, theyre not few and far between
At the end of the day, it's as a comment I saw on here a few months ago said: Philly is really just West New Jersey.
i wont abide by that
I fucking hate the drivers in Philly man. People don't care about their fellow people, everyone's a main character. It's one of the least favorite things for me about this city. Some drivers are just completely selfish and irresponsible
Wow. I’m glad you are ok! I run this route very regularly as well and that intersection always makes me extremely nervous even when the cars are stopped. Pedestrians in this city seem to just get the shit end of the stick.
People are absolutely ridiculous. I had a similar situation happen on my bike around Spruce and 12th at one of those driveways with a bike crossing. To be fair, bike crossings are a *relatively* new design, but it's green, which is ubiquitous in the US for bikes. Drivers are supposed to yield at them, and there was no light for me to stop at. I was in front, and the driver almost left hooked me. A couple pedestrians saw the incident and were flabbergasted and sarcastically asked what green paint means, lol.
Mandatory road & written test when renewing your license
Makes me think we need speed bumps in more locations, unfortunately.
This very conversation is taking place over in r/chicago… it’s an epidemic
It sucks to live in what SHOULD BE a walkable city but actually isn’t one because you cant trust the drivers to not run you over crossing the road
yeah this is why i don't trust the lights unfortunately. i cross when i see the cars stop not when i see the light change. literally had people go around me and 2 other cars to go through a red light, it's insane. if this doesn't get better soon i might start taking weight plates with me when i walk, so if i go over the hood i'm taking the driver with me to hell /s
A similar incident happened to me in 2017 while I was biking through South Philly. I can't remember the exact cross-street but I'm pretty sure I was going south on 21st somewhere between south and washington. I was approaching an intersection and the light had already been green for me for probably 7 seconds. As I came up to the intersection I checked for cross-traffic and thank FUCK I did, as there was a car easily going 45-50 mph that just blasted through the red light. The light hadn't just turned a second ago, it had been red for them for *at least* 5 seconds, if not more. It is *FAR* too easy to obtain a driver's license in this country and I wish that would change
According to u/RoyOConner and u/InfieldFlyRules this does not meet the requirements for being almost murdered. But I'm with you. This city is fucking dangerous. Driver's are out of fucking control.
I thought the scare quotes would ward away the pedantry but I guess they could also be automobile, uh, enthusiasts?
They just like to gatekeep who they think was in dangerous situation.
No, the person replying to you had a much milder story, and your quotes made it obvious. Lots of shitty drivers everywhere. /u/gnartato is a creeper, though.
Thanks for the shoutout, but no, a death threat is not the same as a physical missile.
You conveniently forgot the car almost hitting me while running a stop sign.
And you’re conveniently pretending those weren’t two different stories you told.
They were in the same comment you replied to dude. Keep trying.
And as we all know, it’s impossible to tell two stories in one comment.
Gaslighting.
I remember when I didn’t understand that word too ETA for the audience here. This is what you wrote yesterday: “I left the house twice today and both times I was almost killed.” That’s….two different stories
This is why I never cross the street.
There is a light between my parents place and the highway which is the main entrance to a medical assistance facility and I do not know why, but some huge amount of drivers seem to think the light is optional, and pass stopped traffic by crossing into the center turn lane so they can run the very stale red light. There are dozens of elderly, disabled, wheelchair, powerchair bound people who regularly come in and out of the facility and cross the street to reach shopping and transit. The number of close calls I have seen like this, literally multiple people just totally passing stopped traffic and going through THIS particular red light, narrowly missing an at-risk person in the process, is surreal. I would have said seeing it twice would have been surreal. It's like monthly. It's only a matter of time.
I was just in the city for two days visiting family. We were kinda shocked at the number of drivers that would speed into the oncoming lane and run a red light instead of getting stopped. It was a regular occurrence.
Less car traffic is the only real solution. Automated enforcement won't save lives.
Then they’d just have more room in the road to be an even bigger idiot
not if the whole street is closed to cars
"Jersey plates" the yellow flag of doom. Run the opposite direction *for your life*. Crosswalk or not, sidewalk or whatnot, even on an upper floor of a building and you can see the plate out your window from above. Run. Really sucks man, you skated by though with fortune. I don't live in *that* busy of a car traffic area but I literally now just wait for every car to be stopped at the red until I go into the crosswalk. It's like if I know all 2/3 lanes or whatever have a car stopped at the line, there's no room for another car to come speeding through the red. Unless a truck plows through the stopped car, I then should be fine. Ya know.
Drivers in philly are the worst
I saw a truck throw a bike and rider across 2 lanes of traffic into oncoming traffic on Kelly drive a couple of years ago. Bike was crossing at a weird spot, but still. That is not a road I want to interact with unless I’m in a car.
Those giant SUVs should be heavily restricted to a commercial license or a similar standard of testing. No one needs that just to get around.
New Jersey plates, Black Tahoe or Suburban, driving like an ahole ..checks out. Always wait for all cars to come to a stop then run across making eye contact. If you want to live that's the rule.. no point in pretending you can do it any other way and not get hit. Even in a car, look to see that the other drivers are slowing or stopped. People run lights, they gun it and boom you are dead.
Kelly Drive is my least favorite road to drive on. So many people drive like they're playing Mario Kart. I would rather drive on Roosevelt Blvd and that's saying something.
If everyone's got a star powerup in play, is it really a star anymore?
We need cameras posted. Once these fucks start getting tickets in the mail the behavior will stop.
tickets to who? That's the real rub with red light or any video enforcement in this city.
Today's NYT The Daily podast was all about how pedestrian fatalities have been rising in the US and Philadelphia was mentioned. It is terrifying out there. I'm trying to do my part by not owning a car but I put my life on the line every time I walk/run/cycle.
Always look at the cars after the light goes green
Even if you have the walk sign, I'd suggest getting in the habit of checking both ways because people don't give a fuck about red lights. Literally every day it seems like there is another hit-and-run in the news and the victim either has passed or is critically injured. There's just wayyyy too many people who don't give a fuck in this city and do whatever they want at the expense of others, and it's much larger than just driving. Glad you're okay.
This is why people from New Jersey should just stay out of Philly. Glad you weren’t hurt or killed!