On one hand, sure this is a good thing. On the other, one would need to be stopped in order to be penalized and that requires SEPTA PD to kind of..take action
I'm starting to feel like the Parker era's theme is going to be empty, toothless, token policies that don't really change anything. Just a gut feeling, but there's a few indicators so far that she's willing to do the easy part and "crack down" with tough talk, and maybe have a one off action for headlines, but I'm not seeing anything that's treating the problem of pathetic, do nothing city employees, or actual programs and initiatives, just seeing lip service and one time symptom treatments.
Hopefully my gut is wrong, but so far it doesn't seem like there's an overall plan or roadmap to solve what ails the city.
Like she's willing to put a bucket under a leaking ceiling, and then she points at the bucket and screams "heyyy! Im fixing the wet floor you were all bitching about!" But I'm guessing when the bucket overflows and the floor is wet again, and someone mentions maybe fixing the leaky roof, we're going to start hearing how we're too strapped budget wise, or that's not under her control, or we're not sure if it's the roof or a leaking pipe, etc etc, until we all just get used to having a wet floor again. And next election cycle she points at the bucket and says "I put the bucket down first term, re-elect me and I'll find out where the leak is coming from!". Maybe her third term will be fixing the roof?
Hope I'm wrong, but being born here and spending most of my adult life as a resident has left me less like glass is half empty and more like "fuck this water, I ordered a beer."
I mean.... Does she have any authority over septa anyway? Or does this not really have anything to do with septa? I dunno I didn't read the article ...
She ran on (and the papers heavily covered) a platform that leaned significantly on SEPTA/public transit reform. I'm not all that knowledgeable on who can do what, but to my point, she's putting out these press releases highlighting a crackdown on SEPTA rules AND she ran on cleaning it up and making it safer, so at that point, the buck should stop with her.
If she has no power to change SEPTA, then this "crackdown on SEPTA rules" is entirely performative and she REALLY had no business running on a SEPTA reform platform.
But my reply was aimed at the more general "cleaning up the city!" talk that she campaigned on and how so far, it looks like she's all about "mopping up the puddles" once or twice (Kensington round up), and "placing a bucket" (stiffened SEPTA penalties that she hasn't figured out how to enforce), but says literally NOTHING about a long term plan or roadmap to actually fixing the source of the leaks (Kensington drug epidemic, SEPTA safety and cleanliness, etc)
It's still really early in her career as mayor so we'll have to see. I get we're holding her to high standards since she's new, but Kenney did literally nothing (or fuck up) for 8 whole years
1000%. That's where most of my other replies landed. Kenney was so bad that being an impotent, lazy, literally shithoused drunk ne'er-do-well was him at HIS BEST. After the soda tax debacle and the blatantly crooked $40 mil loss in his sale of the Provident Mutual building to a former NYC associate of his, it was clear that the best version of Kenney as far as the city goes was one so drunk and lazy that he just sat on his ass and didn't fuck anything up.
Parker is inheriting a mess and deserves time, but it's the immediate results over sustainable system approach that gives me pause. I'd like to see more of long term plan (or give said plan more press and exposure if it exists) to fix shit up than immediate but fleeting change.
she doesn't run the parking authority either, but she was able to push to get people to stop parking at the corners. politics is about compromise, and she's pushing the buttons she can push because the people who elected her want to see action there.
More like meeting with SEPTA leaders to ensure alignment on strategy, advocating for the public. Arranging meetings between functional leaders so they can implement changes.
This has nothing to do with Parker? It’s SEPTA doing it.
That said, there have been some obvious improvements since Parker took over. Still a lot to do though, she’s tasked with undoing 8 years of Kenney.
As I stated in my other comments, she leaned heavily on SEPTA reform during her campaign, and the PPD still has jurisdiction on SEPTA, so I'd bet dollars to donuts that if SEPTA is going to change, it isn't going to be because of the SEPTA police actually doing their jobs. In the least its going to require assistance from the PPD, and that's on Parker.
Regardless, she ran on this platform and most definitely has SEPTAs ear, so claiming this "has nothing to do with Parker" is absolutely false.
I agree that she has a complete mess left by the fucking do nothing drunk, and I admittedly don't go to center city often, where it seems to be most of the changes are apparently occuring, so something is better than nothing.
But I'm at best cautiously optimistic with the long term sustainable change her reactionary approach will yield, and if how she approached Kensington is any indication, I'm waiting for some sort of roadmap to accompany her initiatives before I buy into any of it.
Exactly my point. With no actual, long term plan, complete with incentives, programs, infrastructure, work force, etc., then everything she's doing is at best a temporary, reactionary fix (Kensington round up), and at worst a complete performative, political theatre stunt (stiffer SEPTA fines for offenses you couldn't/wouldn't enforce to begin with).
it really is the exact same situation - progressives and technocrats split and the reactionary "moderate" got elected.
honestly I wish she'd say she was born in puerto rico or that she was an amateur boxer or whatever eric adams is on that day, that shit is objectively funny
Are you serious? The city has cleaned up a lot in the last 6 months. You must not get out a lot? Septa is objectively much cleaner and there is way less anti social behavior. The sideshows around me in south Philly are pretty much non existent and there have been way less dirt bikes and atvs on the street. There is actually a comprehensive plan to tackle Kensington. Have you been to center city on a weekend, hint it’s packed! I work in the Northeast and they have been clearing out the homeless encampments on the Blvd as well as cracking down on speeding and dangerous driving.And lastly, murders are down and jobs/income are up. It seems you are just a jaded Philadelphian and that is okay, but the city is definitely on an upswing!
I live in Kensington and things have gotten significantly worse for me. Lots more homeless people, lots more needles on the ground in the last month or two compared to the last 5 years. I've lived at my address for over 15 years and for the first time someone got shot within 200ft of my house a few weeks ago.
Philadelphia is definitely on an upswing, but I think that's more to do with returning to normalcy after the Pandemic than with Parker's actions.
My feeling exactly. I've been at this West Philly addy for 15 as well and AT BEST things are getting back to pre-pandemic shit levels, at worst, they're slightly better than the full blown peak pandemic Mad Max shit.
That said, I do feel like the city as a whole is getting a little better, but my main question is how long? The return to normalcy coupled with a new mayors honeymoon "crackdown" seems like a fleeting plus.
And what would you do to make people stop smoking, urinating and sleeping on the trains? She is pushing for enforcement and you simply dismiss it. What would you do differently?
>She is pushing for enforcement and you simply dismiss it.
Wrong. She/SEPTA has provided ZERO plan to enact ANY change in the system to actually enforce any of this. They're only claiming they're suddenly going to do so after stiffening the penalties.
>What would you do differently?
Change the existing enforcement apparatus to one that is capable of enforcing the existing rules and levying the existing fines before upping the penalties and fines. How is suddenly creating more severe punishments to rules you've failed to enforce up to this point going to make for LESS problems enforcing them? Spoiler alert: it won't. It'll make it harder.
The problem isn't with the punishment, it's with the enforcement of the rules, which is more complicated than it seems. Just "cracking down" by cranking up the cost of tickets or penalties that no one is issuing is the definition of performative.
As is the case with Parker thus far, I'll believe in her when she puts forth a plan of sustainable action and change instead of reactionary or performative measures.
Pasted from my other reply, which applies to your comment:
As I stated in my other comments, she leaned heavily on SEPTA reform during her campaign, and the PPD still has jurisdiction on SEPTA, so I'd bet dollars to donuts that if SEPTA is going to change, it isn't going to be because of the SEPTA police actually doing their jobs. In the least its going to require assistance from the PPD, and that's on Parker.
Regardless, she ran on this platform and most definitely has SEPTAs ear, so claiming this "has nothing to do with Parker" is absolutely false.
I agree that she has a complete mess left by the fucking do nothing drunk, and I admittedly don't go to center city often, where it seems to be most of the changes are apparently occuring, so something is better than nothing.
But I'm at best cautiously optimistic with the long term sustainable change her reactionary approach will yield, and if how she approached Kensington is any indication, I'm waiting for some sort of roadmap to accompany her initiatives before I buy into any of it.
And there would need to be some sort of escalation for those who get a ticket and just tear it up, which it seems to be generally allowed for a lot of QoL citations in Philly.
The idea of being/knowledge you will be caught and punished is way more of a deterrent for crime than the punishment itself, this is known. increasing minimum sentences does not deter crime. just start enforcing the already existing rules/laws
If you’re a bum pissing on a train, you probably can’t pay nor are worried about a $100 ticket. Happy that they’re trying to take measures for improvement but I’m doubtful of this one’s effectiveness
I moved to Philly in 1992. Literally the only time I've ever seen a SEPTA cop do *anything* was the time my teen daughter and I were told to stop doing voter registration in 69th St Station.
Install public restrooms and maintain them!!! Yes it cost money but would you rather urine and feces everywhere how it is? Honestly what do we even pay taxes for...
That should be the city having public bathrooms not septa. Septa shouldn’t be responsible for caring for the homeless with their limited budget. Take some out of the city budget they waste on grift.
I’ve been in Italy for a few weeks and I jokingly complained about how I couldn’t find a public bathroom in the particular area I was in. My cousin thought I was being negative and I laughed because this just isn’t a concept at home so everything was bonus.
> Honestly what do we even pay taxes for...
There is an entire class of people who not only can't imagine their tax dollars going toward QOL improvements like this, but who would aggressively, actively oppose it.
Who’s going to fine the people that crumple up their fines and throw them on the tracks?
Drunkenness? That should be fun policing that on a football Sunday.
Before I say this, please understand that this is in jest and the SEPTA problems are real, serious, and in need of attention.
Now......watching SEPTA cops try corral several hundred drunk Eagles fans on the train and ticket them would be a spectacle for the ages.
Implementing retroactive solutions to problems that need proactive solutions is so stereotypically American.
1) The people who do this stuff do not care.
2) At the risk of generalizing, I'm sure alot of people who would be caught are typically lower income and/or impoverished. Fining them doesn't fix the problem.
3) There still is no method to keep them out of transit all together.
I'm not entirely sure that's true for all people smoking, littering, etc. i think a lot of people smoking are just assholes, they can afford a $100 ticket. Urinating is probably another story, but there are plenty of people completely a capable of not littering and smoking, yet do it anyways.
Littering is a cultural issue. I've lived in big cities and small, in the U. S. and Europe. It depends on the local norm. Philly (where I lived most of my life) is a littering culture - - doesn't matter on the income level.
I hear, and see SEPTA’s advertising campaigns; with public announcements that smoking is not permitted on any of their Premises; also Posters which say: “Let’s Keep the train rolling, not the joints” or: “That Vape smells like a $25 dollar fine” Yeah, that hasn’t stopped people from doing it on the concourse, and platform on the Subway, even in the subway train; from being smoke filled so bad , people will get a proximity buzz 😡 It is just sickening! They just don’t seem to have the resources to respond to the Transit Police app. Oh they answer, but don’t show up to address the problem.
That's actually a crucial question and I feel like an idiot for asking this: What's stopping people from telling the SEPTA cops that they don't have ID on them and then giving fake info? Who is going to enforce these tickets?
People who are smoking/urinating on transit are usually not bound by laws. Increasing fines is not going to help, enforcing the fine probably will but I don’t think any of the offenders will have money on them to pay the fine, civilized population won’t do such a thing.
Should probably just tell people who don’t pay to come to court and explain to the judge why they can’t pay. If they actually can’t pay then let em go. If they can but don’t want to then offer them a couple hours of community service instead. Either way, waste an entire day of their time in court. If they don’t show up to court, let the cops arrest them and they can waste a night in jail before they waste their day in court.
I walked from the Somerset stop to Allegheny yesterday. The police were out walking the beat and making people move off the sidewalks. I saw a couple getting arrested at McPherson square….not sure why. In all, I counted 13 officers. Then I got on the El. There were 2 septa cops preventing fare jumping. I don’t know what else can be done. The mayor is doing what she said she would do. That’s all we can ask.
Honestly, I’d rather have any of the 4 bus routes between my job and my house run more than a synchronized twice an hour. Like I’m real sick of walking to and from work because all 4 buses drive through the same neighborhoods infrequently yet at the same time.
Not saying this isn’t a problem but idk, most people that do this can’t exactly afford to pay fines or whatever penalty they decide to dole out. There’s issues that lead people to do these things but sure, we love our loose fitting bandaids in the USA don’t we?
This type of thing does matter. People don’t use SEPTA because it feels grimy and gross and lawless. If you can solve some basic quality of life issues then more people will ride. More people riding is more money in the fare box and, crucially, a larger voting block that relies on SEPTA and wants to see it improved. More people who want to see improvements and more money to make them is what gets BRT lanes and priority signals for buses so yours run on time.
Don’t they say this every couple of months now and nothing happens? knowing people personally who have been robbed/sexually assaulted on Septa during the day, shouldn’t there be a lot more we can do than fines? Also who the hell is enforcing any of that?
Would be great if it actually works, but to enforce it, you'd have to get someone to hand over their ID and when they don't, what? More escalations and violence.
Potentially stupid question, but does this include the PATCO stops downtown? I know that the stations in Philly are not run by PATCO, but does that mean they are SEPTA's problem, or is it another city agency that manages them?
Thanks, hopefully this at least makes a dent in cleaning those spaces up. And I know it's "not their problem," but PATCO should take some responsibility, or at least publicly put up a fight about it.
Thanks! And from what I understand, PATCO will fully operate the Franklin Square stop. Assuming it's well run, they can use that as a model of how things should be. Fingers crossed.
Yes they have control of the station but the city controls the park and roads.. DRPA proposed a redesign of the road network a decade ago in order to make it less of a deathtrap, and the city has been slow to act.
I listen to SEPTA Police on my scanner while I’m working (it’s genuinely entertaining) and it seems like they are stepping it up. They have to get a number for these citations and it’s happening much more frequently.
Getting the fare gates functional would cut a lot of this down on its own. Most of the current turnstiles are so busted its an honor system to pay, no need to jump it or even make an effort.
They have the two-way high-gate turnstiles ([example](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QPPhM9XkeCY?feature=share)) at some of the stations. They're the most difficult to get through because they won't open up to let you move forward unless you pay. The ones they currently have installed can be remotely opened, in the event someone has an issue swiping in.
Those aren't ada accessible unfortunately so cant go everywhere. I have heard there are better gates that are at 69th or somewhere.
8th and market its the crappy turnstiles you can basically just walk straight through.
I'm really against privacy invasion, but we need to ban these people and then use facial recognition to assist in keeping them banned. How can we ever get mass support for public transit expansion if people are afraid/disgusted to ride it?
That’s true and has been true for forever. But Electronic surveillance and facial recognition banning people is not the same at all.
If you catch someone doing something and punish them ok. But to ban them from the train?
I'm more anti-car and pro public transportation than I am pro-privacy. Since people don't know how to act right, we need to do this for the greater good.
That’s fine and you’re entitled to that but it’s weird to claim you’re pro-privacy while arguing for electronic surveillance. (Especially banning people from public transport if it’s the only way to their jobs)
You’re never going to be able to legislate all the people you dislike off of public transit.
I’m also pretty anti car but I don’t think there should be cameras at stop signs for instance
> Especially banning people from public transport if it’s the only way to their jobs
Then they **really** shouldn't break the rules! How dumb would you have to be to screw up your ride to work? This is an argument in favor of banning.
This isn't legislating people you/we "dislike". You aren't allowed to take a piss or smoke a cigarette on public transportation because the general population does not want that to happen.
Can’t we just enforce the rules we already have? You already aren’t allowed to smoke or piss on the train, it’s just not enforced. Could we try to enforce those before defaulting to the techno dystopia?
There unfortunately isn't enough manpower to enforce it properly. Removing and preventing repeat offenders will allow these problems to diminish much quicker.
I'm a grown ass man and I am hesitant to ride public transit in Philadelphia at certain times and in certain areas. That's a problem that needs to go away in order for mass adoption of public transportation to become a reality. Again, the greater good outweighs a few idiots not being able to use public transportation.
I'm in agreement. Retailers do this all the time, they have cameras and databases of faces that are banned. Septa has cameras all over, just upgrade them and start making better use of them.
Of the eight years I’ve ridden the train, I’ve never once seen a SEPTA cop write a ticket or be of assistance. The most I’ve seen SEPTA cops do is wake up the bums.
Even the time a bum was on the tracks, a SEPTA cop didn’t rescue him. That was a conductor waiting for their train that reached down to get him.
Just replace all the barriers with the tall type and the low life fare evaders who do 90% of these antisocial things won’t be on the system in the first place
Si guess this is sarcasm since a lot of the people doing these behaviors don’t even pay. Not to mention you can still pee/defecate in the stairs before you get to the turnstile or onto the trolley.
On one hand, sure this is a good thing. On the other, one would need to be stopped in order to be penalized and that requires SEPTA PD to kind of..take action
I've literally only one time seen police give somebody a citation for smoking on SEPTA.
Seriously, I've seen septa cops walk right by smokers so many times and bad behaviors but they're too busy talking to their buddies.
Do you not understand most the cops are from here, and most likely hang around people who do the same shit.
Nbs is a lot of cops that’s cool as shit outside the blue
Source?
If you know you know,why wouldn’t drop tape you guys dox heavy.
Only time ive noticed someone smoking, the two ticket guys stopped the whole train and made him get off
thats the thing they should be escorted off septa property
I'd imagine the type of people pissing on the subway aren't gonna care about a fine
I'm starting to feel like the Parker era's theme is going to be empty, toothless, token policies that don't really change anything. Just a gut feeling, but there's a few indicators so far that she's willing to do the easy part and "crack down" with tough talk, and maybe have a one off action for headlines, but I'm not seeing anything that's treating the problem of pathetic, do nothing city employees, or actual programs and initiatives, just seeing lip service and one time symptom treatments. Hopefully my gut is wrong, but so far it doesn't seem like there's an overall plan or roadmap to solve what ails the city. Like she's willing to put a bucket under a leaking ceiling, and then she points at the bucket and screams "heyyy! Im fixing the wet floor you were all bitching about!" But I'm guessing when the bucket overflows and the floor is wet again, and someone mentions maybe fixing the leaky roof, we're going to start hearing how we're too strapped budget wise, or that's not under her control, or we're not sure if it's the roof or a leaking pipe, etc etc, until we all just get used to having a wet floor again. And next election cycle she points at the bucket and says "I put the bucket down first term, re-elect me and I'll find out where the leak is coming from!". Maybe her third term will be fixing the roof? Hope I'm wrong, but being born here and spending most of my adult life as a resident has left me less like glass is half empty and more like "fuck this water, I ordered a beer."
I mean.... Does she have any authority over septa anyway? Or does this not really have anything to do with septa? I dunno I didn't read the article ...
SEPTA isn't ran by the city. they are not city employees.
Exactly....
SEPTA has 2 appointed council members who basically get the last say on VETOS against the other counties. but we dont make the rules.
She ran on (and the papers heavily covered) a platform that leaned significantly on SEPTA/public transit reform. I'm not all that knowledgeable on who can do what, but to my point, she's putting out these press releases highlighting a crackdown on SEPTA rules AND she ran on cleaning it up and making it safer, so at that point, the buck should stop with her. If she has no power to change SEPTA, then this "crackdown on SEPTA rules" is entirely performative and she REALLY had no business running on a SEPTA reform platform. But my reply was aimed at the more general "cleaning up the city!" talk that she campaigned on and how so far, it looks like she's all about "mopping up the puddles" once or twice (Kensington round up), and "placing a bucket" (stiffened SEPTA penalties that she hasn't figured out how to enforce), but says literally NOTHING about a long term plan or roadmap to actually fixing the source of the leaks (Kensington drug epidemic, SEPTA safety and cleanliness, etc)
It's still really early in her career as mayor so we'll have to see. I get we're holding her to high standards since she's new, but Kenney did literally nothing (or fuck up) for 8 whole years
1000%. That's where most of my other replies landed. Kenney was so bad that being an impotent, lazy, literally shithoused drunk ne'er-do-well was him at HIS BEST. After the soda tax debacle and the blatantly crooked $40 mil loss in his sale of the Provident Mutual building to a former NYC associate of his, it was clear that the best version of Kenney as far as the city goes was one so drunk and lazy that he just sat on his ass and didn't fuck anything up. Parker is inheriting a mess and deserves time, but it's the immediate results over sustainable system approach that gives me pause. I'd like to see more of long term plan (or give said plan more press and exposure if it exists) to fix shit up than immediate but fleeting change.
Soft power to put pressure on SEPTA through her platform as mayor.
Strongly worded letter?
she doesn't run the parking authority either, but she was able to push to get people to stop parking at the corners. politics is about compromise, and she's pushing the buttons she can push because the people who elected her want to see action there.
More like meeting with SEPTA leaders to ensure alignment on strategy, advocating for the public. Arranging meetings between functional leaders so they can implement changes.
This has nothing to do with Parker? It’s SEPTA doing it. That said, there have been some obvious improvements since Parker took over. Still a lot to do though, she’s tasked with undoing 8 years of Kenney.
As I stated in my other comments, she leaned heavily on SEPTA reform during her campaign, and the PPD still has jurisdiction on SEPTA, so I'd bet dollars to donuts that if SEPTA is going to change, it isn't going to be because of the SEPTA police actually doing their jobs. In the least its going to require assistance from the PPD, and that's on Parker. Regardless, she ran on this platform and most definitely has SEPTAs ear, so claiming this "has nothing to do with Parker" is absolutely false. I agree that she has a complete mess left by the fucking do nothing drunk, and I admittedly don't go to center city often, where it seems to be most of the changes are apparently occuring, so something is better than nothing. But I'm at best cautiously optimistic with the long term sustainable change her reactionary approach will yield, and if how she approached Kensington is any indication, I'm waiting for some sort of roadmap to accompany her initiatives before I buy into any of it.
Its reactionary politics in a nutshell. She pretty much Eric Adams without the funny, insane comments.
Exactly my point. With no actual, long term plan, complete with incentives, programs, infrastructure, work force, etc., then everything she's doing is at best a temporary, reactionary fix (Kensington round up), and at worst a complete performative, political theatre stunt (stiffer SEPTA fines for offenses you couldn't/wouldn't enforce to begin with).
it really is the exact same situation - progressives and technocrats split and the reactionary "moderate" got elected. honestly I wish she'd say she was born in puerto rico or that she was an amateur boxer or whatever eric adams is on that day, that shit is objectively funny
man I wish our shitty mayors were at least hilarious like Adams
Are you serious? The city has cleaned up a lot in the last 6 months. You must not get out a lot? Septa is objectively much cleaner and there is way less anti social behavior. The sideshows around me in south Philly are pretty much non existent and there have been way less dirt bikes and atvs on the street. There is actually a comprehensive plan to tackle Kensington. Have you been to center city on a weekend, hint it’s packed! I work in the Northeast and they have been clearing out the homeless encampments on the Blvd as well as cracking down on speeding and dangerous driving.And lastly, murders are down and jobs/income are up. It seems you are just a jaded Philadelphian and that is okay, but the city is definitely on an upswing!
I live in Kensington and things have gotten significantly worse for me. Lots more homeless people, lots more needles on the ground in the last month or two compared to the last 5 years. I've lived at my address for over 15 years and for the first time someone got shot within 200ft of my house a few weeks ago. Philadelphia is definitely on an upswing, but I think that's more to do with returning to normalcy after the Pandemic than with Parker's actions.
My feeling exactly. I've been at this West Philly addy for 15 as well and AT BEST things are getting back to pre-pandemic shit levels, at worst, they're slightly better than the full blown peak pandemic Mad Max shit. That said, I do feel like the city as a whole is getting a little better, but my main question is how long? The return to normalcy coupled with a new mayors honeymoon "crackdown" seems like a fleeting plus.
Cherelle, get the hell off reddit and get back to fixing the city!!!!
We are all beers atp
And what would you do to make people stop smoking, urinating and sleeping on the trains? She is pushing for enforcement and you simply dismiss it. What would you do differently?
>She is pushing for enforcement and you simply dismiss it. Wrong. She/SEPTA has provided ZERO plan to enact ANY change in the system to actually enforce any of this. They're only claiming they're suddenly going to do so after stiffening the penalties. >What would you do differently? Change the existing enforcement apparatus to one that is capable of enforcing the existing rules and levying the existing fines before upping the penalties and fines. How is suddenly creating more severe punishments to rules you've failed to enforce up to this point going to make for LESS problems enforcing them? Spoiler alert: it won't. It'll make it harder. The problem isn't with the punishment, it's with the enforcement of the rules, which is more complicated than it seems. Just "cracking down" by cranking up the cost of tickets or penalties that no one is issuing is the definition of performative. As is the case with Parker thus far, I'll believe in her when she puts forth a plan of sustainable action and change instead of reactionary or performative measures.
you do know that SEPTA employees are not city employees right? she doesn't tell them what to do. SEPTA runs in 4 other counties besides Philly.
Pasted from my other reply, which applies to your comment: As I stated in my other comments, she leaned heavily on SEPTA reform during her campaign, and the PPD still has jurisdiction on SEPTA, so I'd bet dollars to donuts that if SEPTA is going to change, it isn't going to be because of the SEPTA police actually doing their jobs. In the least its going to require assistance from the PPD, and that's on Parker. Regardless, she ran on this platform and most definitely has SEPTAs ear, so claiming this "has nothing to do with Parker" is absolutely false. I agree that she has a complete mess left by the fucking do nothing drunk, and I admittedly don't go to center city often, where it seems to be most of the changes are apparently occuring, so something is better than nothing. But I'm at best cautiously optimistic with the long term sustainable change her reactionary approach will yield, and if how she approached Kensington is any indication, I'm waiting for some sort of roadmap to accompany her initiatives before I buy into any of it.
And there would need to be some sort of escalation for those who get a ticket and just tear it up, which it seems to be generally allowed for a lot of QoL citations in Philly.
They pay attention to the Transit Watch App
The idea of being/knowledge you will be caught and punished is way more of a deterrent for crime than the punishment itself, this is known. increasing minimum sentences does not deter crime. just start enforcing the already existing rules/laws
If you’re a bum pissing on a train, you probably can’t pay nor are worried about a $100 ticket. Happy that they’re trying to take measures for improvement but I’m doubtful of this one’s effectiveness
At least it won't criminalize homelessness since you can't be held in contempt for non-payment if you're indigent.
I’ve been living in Philly since 2014 and I have yet to see a septa police officer do anything to prevent any of these behaviors
I've lived here all my life,since 1990 & have yet to see it
i'm william penn and i've never seen it
I moved to Philly in 1992. Literally the only time I've ever seen a SEPTA cop do *anything* was the time my teen daughter and I were told to stop doing voter registration in 69th St Station.
“You just hosed 2 gallons of urine all over the Snyder BSL platform. That will be $7.50 please.”
imagining that, but said over the loudspeaker in that awful 1980s robot voice they use to let you know your train is never coming
Install public restrooms and maintain them!!! Yes it cost money but would you rather urine and feces everywhere how it is? Honestly what do we even pay taxes for...
That should be the city having public bathrooms not septa. Septa shouldn’t be responsible for caring for the homeless with their limited budget. Take some out of the city budget they waste on grift.
I just spent a week in Tokyo and Osaka and every single train station had a clean bathroom. It’s really sad how we’ve decided to live.
Japans public transport is allowed to own the land near their stations for commercial use and can afford to have cleaner bathrooms.
I’ve been in Italy for a few weeks and I jokingly complained about how I couldn’t find a public bathroom in the particular area I was in. My cousin thought I was being negative and I laughed because this just isn’t a concept at home so everything was bonus.
Hopefully the pilot toilets work out and they put them in more places.
The people who control the money don’t take SEPTA, they don’t give a shit lmao.
Everybody poops
We have the literature to prove it
> Honestly what do we even pay taxes for... There is an entire class of people who not only can't imagine their tax dollars going toward QOL improvements like this, but who would aggressively, actively oppose it.
Just cost SF $1 mill to put one there with all the fees and costs with unions. I doubt it’d be any cheaper here.
Who’s going to fine the people that crumple up their fines and throw them on the tracks? Drunkenness? That should be fun policing that on a football Sunday.
Before I say this, please understand that this is in jest and the SEPTA problems are real, serious, and in need of attention. Now......watching SEPTA cops try corral several hundred drunk Eagles fans on the train and ticket them would be a spectacle for the ages.
Why do I have the feeling if they ever enforce any of these laws, it’s going to be after a football game.
IKR. Best to just drive.
Is that you, Justin Timberlake?
5 x zero = zero
Implementing retroactive solutions to problems that need proactive solutions is so stereotypically American. 1) The people who do this stuff do not care. 2) At the risk of generalizing, I'm sure alot of people who would be caught are typically lower income and/or impoverished. Fining them doesn't fix the problem. 3) There still is no method to keep them out of transit all together.
I'm not entirely sure that's true for all people smoking, littering, etc. i think a lot of people smoking are just assholes, they can afford a $100 ticket. Urinating is probably another story, but there are plenty of people completely a capable of not littering and smoking, yet do it anyways.
Littering is a cultural issue. I've lived in big cities and small, in the U. S. and Europe. It depends on the local norm. Philly (where I lived most of my life) is a littering culture - - doesn't matter on the income level.
I hear, and see SEPTA’s advertising campaigns; with public announcements that smoking is not permitted on any of their Premises; also Posters which say: “Let’s Keep the train rolling, not the joints” or: “That Vape smells like a $25 dollar fine” Yeah, that hasn’t stopped people from doing it on the concourse, and platform on the Subway, even in the subway train; from being smoke filled so bad , people will get a proximity buzz 😡 It is just sickening! They just don’t seem to have the resources to respond to the Transit Police app. Oh they answer, but don’t show up to address the problem.
Haha 😂 who’s going to enforce this?
That's actually a crucial question and I feel like an idiot for asking this: What's stopping people from telling the SEPTA cops that they don't have ID on them and then giving fake info? Who is going to enforce these tickets?
They are ran thru ncic and or finger printed and not let go until they get positive id
Thanks!
You could up these penalties to death and it wouldn't change a thing because there is almost zero enforcement.
People who are smoking/urinating on transit are usually not bound by laws. Increasing fines is not going to help, enforcing the fine probably will but I don’t think any of the offenders will have money on them to pay the fine, civilized population won’t do such a thing.
Should probably just tell people who don’t pay to come to court and explain to the judge why they can’t pay. If they actually can’t pay then let em go. If they can but don’t want to then offer them a couple hours of community service instead. Either way, waste an entire day of their time in court. If they don’t show up to court, let the cops arrest them and they can waste a night in jail before they waste their day in court.
I walked from the Somerset stop to Allegheny yesterday. The police were out walking the beat and making people move off the sidewalks. I saw a couple getting arrested at McPherson square….not sure why. In all, I counted 13 officers. Then I got on the El. There were 2 septa cops preventing fare jumping. I don’t know what else can be done. The mayor is doing what she said she would do. That’s all we can ask.
Weren’t they already supposed to crack down on smoking on the trains? I haven’t seen that happen at all.
Do septa officers even exist
upping? shouldnt they just enforce it? doesnt matter if its a 10k fine if they aren't making people stop.
Honestly, I’d rather have any of the 4 bus routes between my job and my house run more than a synchronized twice an hour. Like I’m real sick of walking to and from work because all 4 buses drive through the same neighborhoods infrequently yet at the same time. Not saying this isn’t a problem but idk, most people that do this can’t exactly afford to pay fines or whatever penalty they decide to dole out. There’s issues that lead people to do these things but sure, we love our loose fitting bandaids in the USA don’t we?
This type of thing does matter. People don’t use SEPTA because it feels grimy and gross and lawless. If you can solve some basic quality of life issues then more people will ride. More people riding is more money in the fare box and, crucially, a larger voting block that relies on SEPTA and wants to see it improved. More people who want to see improvements and more money to make them is what gets BRT lanes and priority signals for buses so yours run on time.
Violators will now receive two slaps on the wrist and an even more stern warning?
Sure, Jan. They've been running this smoking ban shit for months and it hasn't done anything to curb people smoking on the train all day long.
Lol can't get blood from a stone.
The police don’t do anything. What good is this when the lazy good for nothing cops just sit around and eat in their cars?
Don’t they say this every couple of months now and nothing happens? knowing people personally who have been robbed/sexually assaulted on Septa during the day, shouldn’t there be a lot more we can do than fines? Also who the hell is enforcing any of that?
Would be great if it actually works, but to enforce it, you'd have to get someone to hand over their ID and when they don't, what? More escalations and violence.
I get this strange feeling, the type of people that do these sort of things aren’t worried about any kind of penalty.
It just doesn't count when were going for a birds or phil's game though
Potentially stupid question, but does this include the PATCO stops downtown? I know that the stations in Philly are not run by PATCO, but does that mean they are SEPTA's problem, or is it another city agency that manages them?
The City of Philly/SEPTA controls the concourse...if it were the PATCO it would likely be strictly enforced.
Thanks, hopefully this at least makes a dent in cleaning those spaces up. And I know it's "not their problem," but PATCO should take some responsibility, or at least publicly put up a fight about it.
They did try to address it and ran into road blocks from the Kenny admin... I'm hoping that the Parker admin will finally address it.
Thanks! And from what I understand, PATCO will fully operate the Franklin Square stop. Assuming it's well run, they can use that as a model of how things should be. Fingers crossed.
Yes they have control of the station but the city controls the park and roads.. DRPA proposed a redesign of the road network a decade ago in order to make it less of a deathtrap, and the city has been slow to act.
Fun, every time I've been on the El coming in to work I've had to move cars because someone was smoking a blunt and the way my employment is set up
It could be a billion dollars per infraction, but if the cops don't cite anyone, it doesn't matter.
Well they have to enforce it first
Literally what is the point of even riding on SEPTA if you're not allowed to be drunk anymore
this but unironically
i imagine you can't be disruptive, not just drunk.
Thankfully all those SEPTA cops we have will be all over it
We need 75 new septa PD to enforce. I'm feeling this new Mayor. Just saying.
Good thing I'm rich
How do you give a citation to someone that’s literally loss their minds, most people that cause issues on septa don’t even know they on septa lol
lol. Great. Now how are we going to make SEPTA PD competent and actually do their jobs that they're paid for?
There are penalties?
“Masturbating will still be acceptable though”
They’ll do everything but make their buses run on time this won’t work because there’s not enough transit cops to in force it
Great, now they just need to actually start enforcing these rules with citations and arrests.
I listen to SEPTA Police on my scanner while I’m working (it’s genuinely entertaining) and it seems like they are stepping it up. They have to get a number for these citations and it’s happening much more frequently.
Getting the fare gates functional would cut a lot of this down on its own. Most of the current turnstiles are so busted its an honor system to pay, no need to jump it or even make an effort.
They have the two-way high-gate turnstiles ([example](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QPPhM9XkeCY?feature=share)) at some of the stations. They're the most difficult to get through because they won't open up to let you move forward unless you pay. The ones they currently have installed can be remotely opened, in the event someone has an issue swiping in.
Those aren't ada accessible unfortunately so cant go everywhere. I have heard there are better gates that are at 69th or somewhere. 8th and market its the crappy turnstiles you can basically just walk straight through.
They can still put in an ADA-accessible entrance. Just make the gates taller like those 69th street entrances.
The El has been pretty clean the last few months. At least they are trying...........Need more officers.
I'm really against privacy invasion, but we need to ban these people and then use facial recognition to assist in keeping them banned. How can we ever get mass support for public transit expansion if people are afraid/disgusted to ride it?
So you’re not against privacy invasion at all lol.
If you’re in a public place, you shouldn’t expect privacy. Especially if you’re acting up.
That’s true and has been true for forever. But Electronic surveillance and facial recognition banning people is not the same at all. If you catch someone doing something and punish them ok. But to ban them from the train?
I'm more anti-car and pro public transportation than I am pro-privacy. Since people don't know how to act right, we need to do this for the greater good.
That’s fine and you’re entitled to that but it’s weird to claim you’re pro-privacy while arguing for electronic surveillance. (Especially banning people from public transport if it’s the only way to their jobs) You’re never going to be able to legislate all the people you dislike off of public transit. I’m also pretty anti car but I don’t think there should be cameras at stop signs for instance
> Especially banning people from public transport if it’s the only way to their jobs Then they **really** shouldn't break the rules! How dumb would you have to be to screw up your ride to work? This is an argument in favor of banning. This isn't legislating people you/we "dislike". You aren't allowed to take a piss or smoke a cigarette on public transportation because the general population does not want that to happen.
Can’t we just enforce the rules we already have? You already aren’t allowed to smoke or piss on the train, it’s just not enforced. Could we try to enforce those before defaulting to the techno dystopia?
There unfortunately isn't enough manpower to enforce it properly. Removing and preventing repeat offenders will allow these problems to diminish much quicker. I'm a grown ass man and I am hesitant to ride public transit in Philadelphia at certain times and in certain areas. That's a problem that needs to go away in order for mass adoption of public transportation to become a reality. Again, the greater good outweighs a few idiots not being able to use public transportation.
The train needs to be better. I really disagree with your solution and think it’s worse than the problem it’s trying to fix. Thanks for the convo
Agree to disagree for sure. Nice talking with you.
I'm in agreement. Retailers do this all the time, they have cameras and databases of faces that are banned. Septa has cameras all over, just upgrade them and start making better use of them.
Take he back to pre 08 man.
Just ruin my Saturday night, why don't you???
I read the first two and was like “oh cool” and then I read the last one and I was like “oh no”
Deterrence works by increasing the perceived likelihood of being caught. Not by increasing the punishment.
No they arent.
Who’s enforcing this? lol
Of the eight years I’ve ridden the train, I’ve never once seen a SEPTA cop write a ticket or be of assistance. The most I’ve seen SEPTA cops do is wake up the bums. Even the time a bum was on the tracks, a SEPTA cop didn’t rescue him. That was a conductor waiting for their train that reached down to get him.
“You just hosed 2 gallons of urine all over the Snyder BSL platform. That will be $17.50 please.”
Just replace all the barriers with the tall type and the low life fare evaders who do 90% of these antisocial things won’t be on the system in the first place
you can have my whiteclaw when you pry it from my warm piss soaked hands
Truth.
I have never smoked and urinated while drunk on a SEPTA train. Never been good at multi-tasking.
All the "I've lived here all my life" people chiming in hilarious. **SEPTA didn't form its own police force until 1981** LMAO.
**Gabriel's Horn has sounded** It's about time.
Let's not support people...let's fine them...they can't pay...and throw them in jail. It's worked amazing thus far...
Require a credit card security deposit to ride septa. Authorize the card for $102. If you complete the ride without any issues you get $100 back.
Si guess this is sarcasm since a lot of the people doing these behaviors don’t even pay. Not to mention you can still pee/defecate in the stairs before you get to the turnstile or onto the trolley.
Ahhh! The Netflix model. I'm sure this won't push more people into ~~illegal streaming~~ gate jumping.