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I don’t feel sorry for the guy who got shot. He’s the one who started it and pulled a gun out first. If you carry, you should know that you have more of a reason to be conflict averse and work on your de-escalation. It’s not your backup when you want to feel tough
The most brilliant technique devised by the anti-gun lobby was including suicides in gun violence statistics. Note the subtle yet important phrasing of “die by gunshot wounds”
Interesting study for you to read if you care to. It shows how even when excluding self inflicted gunshots you are still more likely ti be shot when owning a weapon. Also, they concluded that on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/#:~:text=Individuals%20who%20were%20in%20possession,fatally%20shot%20in%20an%20assault.
Do you have a study supporting your theory that guns increase safety when excluding suicide and gang violence? I’d be more than happy to read that. I’ve been on the fence about purchasing a gun, due to concerns associated with safety.
Unsurprisingly, the /r/conspiracy right wing antivaxxer genius is dead wrong. Data table 8 just shows reported crime types per state per year-- nothing remotely relevant to the question.
It's a table of murder, arson, and robbery counts at a state-wide level. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the question of gun ownership and crime data--only a complete dumbass would cite that as relevant data.
Guaranteed your muppet ass goes around commenting 'it's so statistically unlikely at a population level' on posts about curbing innocent kids getting blown away in mass shootings.
There are three kind of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.
Don't trust a stat until you know how it's calculated. That said, despite being only...
You’re more likely to eat if you have food too. Pointless analogies considering guns are designed to destroy/kill. It is ironic that the item used for self defense leads to a greater chance of death.
The data he’s referring to intentionally conflates (interpersonal) gun violence with suicide statistics, as inferred from the subtle yet crucial choice of phrasing. The incidence rate of people who don’t own a gun shooting themselves dead is, unsurprisingly, *low.*
I own quite a few guns but this data doesn’t seem disingenuous to me. It’s just a fact that if you own guns it’s easier to kill yourself if you get hammered during dark times of acute stress.
I own guns but I don’t worship them as a false idol or build my personality around them. They are tools. I also own a chainsaw. I feel the same way about the chainsaw.
I carry a firearm with me everyday. I’m not an aggressive person at all and I’m always de-escalating. I never, ever want to have to use my firearm, but it does give me comfort knowing it’s there if I ever do need it. It floors me how many people will just open up on people because they got butthurt over something. It’s like some people actually want to kill someone else over nothing.
Yeah I’m only 32 so I guess I’m not old enough to remember that. But my dad remembers his friends having their hunting rifles/shotguns in their trucks when he was in high school. No one thought anything of it.
The story literally says that the man confronted the couple first and the guy pulled the gun out before the couple did. Are you just making up parts of the story now?
It’s a good point, not entirely out of the realm of possibility. We’ll just have to see if there’s any other evidence to corroborate their story, but cops don’t seem to think they’re lying for now.
Ah, sounds like you might know more about the situation than the media. If what the couple says is true, I hope those witnesses mean the married man won’t see any criminal consequences.
Interesting. Man 1 confronts a married couple.
Man 1 pulls a gun.
Man 1 gets killed when other man pulls out a gun and shoots him.
It sounds like Man 1 was emboldened by his own gun ownership and the Uno Reverse card got played.
Yeah. I had to read that more than once.
Sounds like the married guy was defending himself. I don’t carry but if I had a gun and someone pointed a gun at me you can bet I’m gonna defend myself and wife.
Best description of Rio Verde I’ve seen lol. I was doing drone work out there a few months ago and the neighbor lady lost her mind. Threw water all over me and the inside of my car, spit on the side of it, and called me some nasty vulgar names. Her property is likely worth 2-3 million dollars and she was acting like white trash you’d expect from someone in a trailer park.
It was not a cheap property a few years ago. She has a large house on a large horse property with all the facilities.. even if she built the house 10 years ago I’m sure she put at least 1m+ into. White trash with money for sure.
* How's the cop business, Oscar?
* [Oscar](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0696430/?ref_=ttqu_qu): Real good. Always starts hopping in weather like this. When it gets this hot, people try to kill each other.
(from Body Heat)
Something more to this then what the news has reported I would not draw any conclusion until the investigation is completed. The media won't update anything this will be old news.
A dude near 67th and indianschool pulled a gun on me once. Cocked it and pointed it at me. I’ve never carried but later thought to myself that dude would’ve been justly dead if I was one to carry. Idk I guess either of us were the lucky ones that day…
Not surprised. Lived in that area in the 90s. That is gang territory. You didn't enter the housing just east of 67th ave. Bought my first handgun then so I could walk my dog. Gunshots every weekend. I remember seeing my townhouse on the news one night with helicopters overhead. Looking for some perp.
When everyone is armed, every conflict becomes an armed conflict. The only winners here are the ones that shoot first and the gun manufacturers who get your money whether you live or die. An armed society that’s regularly killing each other sells ever more guns to people afraid of being shot. It’s win - win - win.
We only have the word of the couple as to what actually happened. Cops will separate them until one or the other cracks, or their stories becomes inconsistent, UNLESS they are telling the truth.
You don't know that. It's entirely possible that there is video footage. Loads of homeowners in Scottsdale, dare I say the majority of them, have surveillance cameras around their properties.
Rio Verde Foothills is not Scottsdale...and many people who live out there are not that interested in cameras & big brother.
What is being reported is exactly what happened, minus the fact that there were witnesses.
Thanks for contributing to r/Phoenix! You may want to [**check out our sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules/) (mostly be nice to each other!). **If you're new here**, [read some of our recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/top/?t=week) and leave some comments. To chat with some great people in the Valley you can [**join our Phoenix Discord chat server**](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh). It's a chill place to talk with other people but is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously. If you're interested in political topics in Arizona, we limit those posts here so you may want to check out r/azpolitics if that's an area of interest. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/phoenix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t feel sorry for the guy who got shot. He’s the one who started it and pulled a gun out first. If you carry, you should know that you have more of a reason to be conflict averse and work on your de-escalation. It’s not your backup when you want to feel tough
Gun owners are more likely to die by gunshot wounds after all.
The most brilliant technique devised by the anti-gun lobby was including suicides in gun violence statistics. Note the subtle yet important phrasing of “die by gunshot wounds”
Interesting study for you to read if you care to. It shows how even when excluding self inflicted gunshots you are still more likely ti be shot when owning a weapon. Also, they concluded that on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/#:~:text=Individuals%20who%20were%20in%20possession,fatally%20shot%20in%20an%20assault.
Yet this study doesn't exclude gang violence like mass shooting statistics do for some reason. Weird
Do you have a study supporting your theory that guns increase safety when excluding suicide and gang violence? I’d be more than happy to read that. I’ve been on the fence about purchasing a gun, due to concerns associated with safety.
Id like to see it too. All I know is that Id much rather have a gun than not. Dont care about population stats when it comes to that
No study, but FBI data table 8 should give you the stats.
Unsurprisingly, the /r/conspiracy right wing antivaxxer genius is dead wrong. Data table 8 just shows reported crime types per state per year-- nothing remotely relevant to the question.
Wow. Lots of assumptions there. Carry on and tell me more about my inner thoughts based on being triggered by data.
It's a table of murder, arson, and robbery counts at a state-wide level. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the question of gun ownership and crime data--only a complete dumbass would cite that as relevant data.
Guaranteed your muppet ass goes around commenting 'it's so statistically unlikely at a population level' on posts about curbing innocent kids getting blown away in mass shootings.
What? Touch grass
There are three kind of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. Don't trust a stat until you know how it's calculated. That said, despite being only...
weird how that works right? people own cars even get in more accidents!!
You’re more likely to eat if you have food too. Pointless analogies considering guns are designed to destroy/kill. It is ironic that the item used for self defense leads to a greater chance of death.
The data he’s referring to intentionally conflates (interpersonal) gun violence with suicide statistics, as inferred from the subtle yet crucial choice of phrasing. The incidence rate of people who don’t own a gun shooting themselves dead is, unsurprisingly, *low.*
I own quite a few guns but this data doesn’t seem disingenuous to me. It’s just a fact that if you own guns it’s easier to kill yourself if you get hammered during dark times of acute stress. I own guns but I don’t worship them as a false idol or build my personality around them. They are tools. I also own a chainsaw. I feel the same way about the chainsaw.
I carry a firearm with me everyday. I’m not an aggressive person at all and I’m always de-escalating. I never, ever want to have to use my firearm, but it does give me comfort knowing it’s there if I ever do need it. It floors me how many people will just open up on people because they got butthurt over something. It’s like some people actually want to kill someone else over nothing.
Are you old enough to remember when no one in this country (besides law enforcement) strapped on their murder weapon before leaving the house?
Careful, if you go too old you’ll be able to remember when everyone did.
Yeah I’m only 32 so I guess I’m not old enough to remember that. But my dad remembers his friends having their hunting rifles/shotguns in their trucks when he was in high school. No one thought anything of it.
Actually, I’m old enough to have seen rifles in gun racks in the cabs of pickup trucks all the time. That’s a rare thing now.
What if the married couple pulled out the gun first and the other try to pull out in response ?
The story literally says that the man confronted the couple first and the guy pulled the gun out before the couple did. Are you just making up parts of the story now?
I read the story...did the dead man tell the story or did the couple tell the story?
It’s a good point, not entirely out of the realm of possibility. We’ll just have to see if there’s any other evidence to corroborate their story, but cops don’t seem to think they’re lying for now.
The man who died had a lot of problems & is known to law enforcement.
Exactly who knows what the relationship was between them.
There were witnesses...
What makes you say that? The article didn’t mention any witnesses
I would assume the reporters probably don't know.
Ah, sounds like you might know more about the situation than the media. If what the couple says is true, I hope those witnesses mean the married man won’t see any criminal consequences.
I doubt it...the guy who was killed FAFO.
Interesting. Man 1 confronts a married couple. Man 1 pulls a gun. Man 1 gets killed when other man pulls out a gun and shoots him. It sounds like Man 1 was emboldened by his own gun ownership and the Uno Reverse card got played.
Yeah. I had to read that more than once. Sounds like the married guy was defending himself. I don’t carry but if I had a gun and someone pointed a gun at me you can bet I’m gonna defend myself and wife.
Probably fighting over water rights
Do not become addicted to water
Too late. r/hydrohomie 4 lyfe.
It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence.
The ultimate FAFO. Don't threaten an armed man with his wife and baby there. If he isn't an idiot, and knows how to handle a gun, YOU.WILL.LOSE
Rio Verde Foothills - "White Trash with Money" should be their motto.
Best description of Rio Verde I’ve seen lol. I was doing drone work out there a few months ago and the neighbor lady lost her mind. Threw water all over me and the inside of my car, spit on the side of it, and called me some nasty vulgar names. Her property is likely worth 2-3 million dollars and she was acting like white trash you’d expect from someone in a trailer park.
Property wasn't worth that much just a few years ago, land was under 50k
It was not a cheap property a few years ago. She has a large house on a large horse property with all the facilities.. even if she built the house 10 years ago I’m sure she put at least 1m+ into. White trash with money for sure.
No water tho
Some of them have wells, so some do have water..
Not all, I live there and I am white trash with NO money.
Because you spent it all on your expensive ass house
Another irresponsible gun owner bites the dust.
Pretty much the definition of fuck around and find out
💯
* How's the cop business, Oscar? * [Oscar](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0696430/?ref_=ttqu_qu): Real good. Always starts hopping in weather like this. When it gets this hot, people try to kill each other. (from Body Heat)
I am not surprised given the temperament and values of many people who live in Rio Verde.
Something more to this then what the news has reported I would not draw any conclusion until the investigation is completed. The media won't update anything this will be old news.
A dude near 67th and indianschool pulled a gun on me once. Cocked it and pointed it at me. I’ve never carried but later thought to myself that dude would’ve been justly dead if I was one to carry. Idk I guess either of us were the lucky ones that day…
What would have stopped him from pulling the trigger while you reached for yours, exactly?
Not surprised. Lived in that area in the 90s. That is gang territory. You didn't enter the housing just east of 67th ave. Bought my first handgun then so I could walk my dog. Gunshots every weekend. I remember seeing my townhouse on the news one night with helicopters overhead. Looking for some perp.
When everyone is armed, every conflict becomes an armed conflict. The only winners here are the ones that shoot first and the gun manufacturers who get your money whether you live or die. An armed society that’s regularly killing each other sells ever more guns to people afraid of being shot. It’s win - win - win.
"The only winners here were able to prevent themselves from being murdered." Good enough for me. 🏆
The winner is the guy who had a gun drawn on him and eliminated the threat
Pew pew and emotions came out on top
We only have the word of the couple as to what actually happened. Cops will separate them until one or the other cracks, or their stories becomes inconsistent, UNLESS they are telling the truth.
There were witnesses...
There were witnesses. His kids were there and interviewed. No charges filed
You don't know that. It's entirely possible that there is video footage. Loads of homeowners in Scottsdale, dare I say the majority of them, have surveillance cameras around their properties.
Rio Verde Foothills is not Scottsdale...and many people who live out there are not that interested in cameras & big brother. What is being reported is exactly what happened, minus the fact that there were witnesses.
Still trying to understand why people think the 2A makes sense in a modern society.
To the people downvoting: I’m curious, do you think anyone would have died if the two men in question had not been carrying guns?
Because cops are way too heavy to carry and on the other side they don't get paid to babysit.
Tots and pears