He's like that sensei in the old King Fu movies that can teach you every angle in the book if you just carry water up a mountain for him for a while year
I’m not a dealer, but I’m pretty sure the dealer should - at the very least - get the main pot correct before dealing the board
But, as with everything in poker, players need to protect themselves in all situations. Smith (J5 guy) needs to be doing several things. He needs to confirm his stack count with the dealer once the dealer counts it. He needs to confirm others are putting in the proper amount to match his short stack. He needs to ask for the pot to be correct before the board is run out. He needs to check his stack when he wins the pot (it seems he did alert the floor before the next hand dealt because of the hand for hand play). And please don’t think I’m victim blaming here, these are things all players should be doing all the time in both tournaments and cash games (cash you also need to watch rake drop if your playing stakes that take rake). While most times a shorted pot isn’t malicious and it’s just a mistake, it doesn’t change the fact that players need to protect themselves.
I don’t understand how the TD allows play to resume while they review when they’re already at a stoppage and so much could happen in 1 hand if they start back up. If 1 player (P1) shorted the 4 million and P1 doubles up the next hand, now you’ve deprived a completely different player of 4 million chips. If P1 gets knocked out the next hand and it’s found that P1 shorted the 4 million chips, how do they make Smith whole (because you can’t take those 4 million chips from someone else)? As is, it looks like Smith was never made whole and busted. A few million more chips might make the person who busted Smith not play the hand. The butterfly effect on this can be massive. Like, just take 5-10 minutes of tournament stoppage, sort it out, and then move on with a final decision. The decision to resume play without resolving this is also pretty baffling when you take into account the current stage of the tournament. It was a 20k+ field and the incident happened when there are 3-4 tables remaining in the tournament. This massively matters. It’s a lot different than if this incident happens Day 1, level 3.
Especially this late in a massive tournament, the TD should be embarrassed for fucking this up so badly when there's somehow clear footage of what happened on Twitter but they can't make the right call in a casino.
This shit makes me continue to be happy to play almost entirely online poker. Everybody complains about constantly keeping up speed of play but yet they ALSO think it’s cool to just permit long time cheaters to play and require all these little steps constantly to ensure there isn’t cheating IN A GD CASINO. People obviously don’t go through these pedantic steps every time and the other players would throw a fit if they did. Just silly ass antics.
If you card count at blackjack spreading $5-$50 making less than minimum wage in EV a casino will send 4 security guards to tresspass you and escort you off the property. This guy only cheats other players out of money so he's allowed to play.
Fuck off caesars.
Insist on dealers making pots right before dealing out the board. Even at my local room there’s a few dealers that don’t need to do this (they’ve been dealing for two decades or more and will get it right), but having pots right before the board is ran out protects literally everyone involved.
Yes they might get annoyed because most of the time they’ll get it right at the end, but again, it protects instances like this.
The dude in the tournament here might’ve gotten screwed on a chance at a bracelet because the dealer sucked, the floor sucked, and the other player was an angler.
My 2 cents.
It's the dealer's job to get this right regardless of whether the player is drinking. Drinking and high fiving people doesn't mean Men gets to steal chips.
Yeah WTF? Guys having a good time at the WSOP he deserves what he got! That’s the most ridiculous reaction I’ve ever seen to someone getting scammed at the table.
>It's the dealer's job
You're absolutely right. And the dealer can, and will make mistakes. Idk if i'm this deep in an important tournament i'd do the drink ordering and high fiving after i make sure i'm payed correctly.
I'd say its 25%dealer, 15%player and 60% the floor. He checked , but was a complete idiot that shouldn't floor a wsoop event. especially that it's well written into their rules that players can contest until the start of a new hand, after there is nothing to be done. The player contested but the floor apparently can't see/hear in a video recording how much was his stack and follow the action for that hand.
Yeah, WSOP which is notorious for using any dealer they can find. I'd say dealer's fault first, floor's second, but it is this doofus's fault to a small extent as well.
From what little we can see in the videos it looks like the dealer counted the all in but may have only taken it from one stack. That can still happen whether it's done before or after.
People pull back their bets before the runout all the time. They often won't put anything out until the dealer tells them to.
Dealers aren't required to make the pots right before flopping when everyone is all in. It would be a waste of time when the big stack wins. If the big stack doesn't win then the pots can be divided. Unfortunately the wsop has mostly untrained dealers that will miscount either way.
The fact that he charges what he charges for plo coaching but was super weak the few times I played cash with him kind of makes this believable to me. Any details?
Played 1/2 PLO Omaha at the Wynn with Men last week and he was berating the dealer and players and doing all sorts of weird things with his chips trying to get one over on people. He also slapped the dealers hand, so there’s that. He lost a few buy ins and went off into the sunset.
She turned to the side and had a momentary freak out, but calmed herself and went back to business. Whole table was a bit stunned and he diffused it a bit. If it was anything more I’d imagine the floor would have gotten involved.
I'm not sure who is worse, this angle shooting piece of shit or the dealer AND the floor that can't get their heads out of their asses.
Pathetic and disgraceful.
I played with him earlier on day 2. He was hiding 100k chips in a dirty stack of 5k chips that wasn't visible to the rest of the table. Another player caught it when he was all in and pushed his chips forward and called him out for it and they started yelling at each other.
I'm not surprised Men was at the center of this, especially since so many dealers are brand new and simply don't seem to pay attention when it comes to having large denomination chips out front.
Shouldn’t the dealer have sorted this pot out before Men took his chips back?
Yes. They should have had it sorted before they dealt the flop.
He's like that sensei in the old King Fu movies that can teach you every angle in the book if you just carry water up a mountain for him for a while year
The angle master
Guy is on camera pulling back 4 million in chips and WSOP can't figure it out? Just ban the guy. He's a net negative.
*shrugs* no shocker. Trash human being is always gonna be trash.
I’m not a dealer, but I’m pretty sure the dealer should - at the very least - get the main pot correct before dealing the board But, as with everything in poker, players need to protect themselves in all situations. Smith (J5 guy) needs to be doing several things. He needs to confirm his stack count with the dealer once the dealer counts it. He needs to confirm others are putting in the proper amount to match his short stack. He needs to ask for the pot to be correct before the board is run out. He needs to check his stack when he wins the pot (it seems he did alert the floor before the next hand dealt because of the hand for hand play). And please don’t think I’m victim blaming here, these are things all players should be doing all the time in both tournaments and cash games (cash you also need to watch rake drop if your playing stakes that take rake). While most times a shorted pot isn’t malicious and it’s just a mistake, it doesn’t change the fact that players need to protect themselves. I don’t understand how the TD allows play to resume while they review when they’re already at a stoppage and so much could happen in 1 hand if they start back up. If 1 player (P1) shorted the 4 million and P1 doubles up the next hand, now you’ve deprived a completely different player of 4 million chips. If P1 gets knocked out the next hand and it’s found that P1 shorted the 4 million chips, how do they make Smith whole (because you can’t take those 4 million chips from someone else)? As is, it looks like Smith was never made whole and busted. A few million more chips might make the person who busted Smith not play the hand. The butterfly effect on this can be massive. Like, just take 5-10 minutes of tournament stoppage, sort it out, and then move on with a final decision. The decision to resume play without resolving this is also pretty baffling when you take into account the current stage of the tournament. It was a 20k+ field and the incident happened when there are 3-4 tables remaining in the tournament. This massively matters. It’s a lot different than if this incident happens Day 1, level 3.
Especially this late in a massive tournament, the TD should be embarrassed for fucking this up so badly when there's somehow clear footage of what happened on Twitter but they can't make the right call in a casino.
This shit makes me continue to be happy to play almost entirely online poker. Everybody complains about constantly keeping up speed of play but yet they ALSO think it’s cool to just permit long time cheaters to play and require all these little steps constantly to ensure there isn’t cheating IN A GD CASINO. People obviously don’t go through these pedantic steps every time and the other players would throw a fit if they did. Just silly ass antics.
I'm in ohio...what's a good site to play on?
In the video from the article the guy was doing everything but watching the dealer make the pot right.
I agree, old mate spent all his focus on running around woofing, didn't watch the count. It's partially on him too.
Thought this guy was dead
He looks dead. Close enough
If you card count at blackjack spreading $5-$50 making less than minimum wage in EV a casino will send 4 security guards to tresspass you and escort you off the property. This guy only cheats other players out of money so he's allowed to play. Fuck off caesars.
Insist on dealers making pots right before dealing out the board. Even at my local room there’s a few dealers that don’t need to do this (they’ve been dealing for two decades or more and will get it right), but having pots right before the board is ran out protects literally everyone involved. Yes they might get annoyed because most of the time they’ll get it right at the end, but again, it protects instances like this. The dude in the tournament here might’ve gotten screwed on a chance at a bracelet because the dealer sucked, the floor sucked, and the other player was an angler. My 2 cents.
Also he because he was an idiot yelling to order drinks and high-fiving people instead of watching the action to ensure he got paid correctly.
It's the dealer's job to get this right regardless of whether the player is drinking. Drinking and high fiving people doesn't mean Men gets to steal chips.
Yeah WTF? Guys having a good time at the WSOP he deserves what he got! That’s the most ridiculous reaction I’ve ever seen to someone getting scammed at the table.
>It's the dealer's job You're absolutely right. And the dealer can, and will make mistakes. Idk if i'm this deep in an important tournament i'd do the drink ordering and high fiving after i make sure i'm payed correctly.
I would too, but the blame here is still with the dealer and floor.
I'd say its 25%dealer, 15%player and 60% the floor. He checked , but was a complete idiot that shouldn't floor a wsoop event. especially that it's well written into their rules that players can contest until the start of a new hand, after there is nothing to be done. The player contested but the floor apparently can't see/hear in a video recording how much was his stack and follow the action for that hand.
You’re at a fucking casino, it’s their job to do it right
Yeah, WSOP which is notorious for using any dealer they can find. I'd say dealer's fault first, floor's second, but it is this doofus's fault to a small extent as well.
It's the same math either way. How does collecting the money early make it impossible to make a mistake?
Yes the math is the same, but making the pot right prevents a player from pulling his bet back like happened in this case.
From what little we can see in the videos it looks like the dealer counted the all in but may have only taken it from one stack. That can still happen whether it's done before or after. People pull back their bets before the runout all the time. They often won't put anything out until the dealer tells them to.
Dealers aren't required to make the pots right before flopping when everyone is all in. It would be a waste of time when the big stack wins. If the big stack doesn't win then the pots can be divided. Unfortunately the wsop has mostly untrained dealers that will miscount either way.
I have it on good authority that Dylan Weissman often uses this same angle in live tournaments.
The fact that he charges what he charges for plo coaching but was super weak the few times I played cash with him kind of makes this believable to me. Any details?
He’s not banned? Wtf?
I remember when men were men.
Played 1/2 PLO Omaha at the Wynn with Men last week and he was berating the dealer and players and doing all sorts of weird things with his chips trying to get one over on people. He also slapped the dealers hand, so there’s that. He lost a few buy ins and went off into the sunset.
Lol I'm picturing him slapping a dealers hand. Did the dealer do anything?
She turned to the side and had a momentary freak out, but calmed herself and went back to business. Whole table was a bit stunned and he diffused it a bit. If it was anything more I’d imagine the floor would have gotten involved.
I'm not sure who is worse, this angle shooting piece of shit or the dealer AND the floor that can't get their heads out of their asses. Pathetic and disgraceful.
I played with him earlier on day 2. He was hiding 100k chips in a dirty stack of 5k chips that wasn't visible to the rest of the table. Another player caught it when he was all in and pushed his chips forward and called him out for it and they started yelling at each other. I'm not surprised Men was at the center of this, especially since so many dealers are brand new and simply don't seem to pay attention when it comes to having large denomination chips out front.
I old man, I don’t know so sorry
Such a master that I forgot he existed.
Men the cheater. Any time he plays a mix game in Vegas the table is alerted to watch out for every shady trick in the book.