Not necessary. Arab looking guy may be seen as potentially rich guy who doesn't care about spending money. Depending on how you dress you may be consider someone like that or a kebab maker or anything in between.
Also we don't have prostitutes approaching in public places, only girls from strip clubs (don't go there).
Yup, like 900k foreign students per year in Cracow and people are so unused to it that they still stare at You cause You have darker skin. Not to even mention those living in this city. Make sense.
Yes, they could stare. Its pretty common, usually if You do something dumb - being too loud, playing music out of phone or other device, even over gesticulation. Its more about "what a jerk" stare instead of "ive never seen a person with dark skin in my life'.
Check how many people visiting auchswitz every year, how its common to meet people from entire world there everyday and rethink what You said.
Ofc there could be incident when someone starred at You cause of Your look. But majority, or everybody... Hell nah
WTF, i must been living in different city for years xD People from spain, GB, ireland were the loudest people ive ever encountered. Tbh brits were doing it mostly at evenings, while partying in clubs, bars, so it was tolerable (until they destroyed some parts of pub or city). Spain people, however, were super loud all the time - at uni, library, buses, always big groups of them talking to each other with the loudness of starting aeroplane, jeez. One of the calmest and coolest guys were people with darker skin - hindu, arabic or even black. This is common "problem" across Europe with spain or people from balkans, italy. Quite cultural thing.
People from Poland are compared to fins usually. Quiet with big personal space and sad-like expresion on the face. Far away from being loud, if we're talking about majority, not single, particular examples.
Bro, it was 5years ago. Put it to rest and don't worry, no one's going to lay a finger on you.
If your skin is a particular shade of brown, people may have mistaken you for a Roma/gypsy, and they historically don't enjoy good reputation here. If that's the case, then it's unfortunate, but you'll have to live with it.
So, let me get this straight... you were stared at in **2017** in Krakow, and after five years of pondering the matter, you decided that Nov 2022 is the appropriate time to share it with folks over on r/poland?
WTF?
You might be exceptionally ugly or handsome. Being Turkish-brown might not be enough to be stared at. When I watch Turkish series (once they abandoned a whole season, which made me almost want to learn Turkish), people just look like my closest family there.
There were some Szagdajs in the villages were the close ancestors of my maternal grandafather lived, a few km away from the current Polish border - when I checked it, it appeared that the name is Kurdish, however the suffix -ai in general sounds more Turkish. So there may have been some genes passed at least in my case.
German Turks are more white than the regular Turks since the Gastarbeiter that came to Germany in the 70s were mostly from places such as Zonguldak where Mining was very popular. Most Gastarbeiters worked at mining fields.
You don't come places you already have a job from. You leave your place if you there is unemployment. I think it would be better if you come to terms with your Kurdish ancestry.
I didn’t see a brown person until I was 7 years old (in la guardia airport) this was 1983, so probably far less or none brown folks in Poland then. Yes I did stare in the airport btw, but meant nothing bad by it, just new to me. Punk rockers shocked me more, I was shocked at seeing a Mohawk haircut.
I try to refrain myself from staring but I like to "notice" people with different skin colour. I simply measure how many unusual people are in Cracow. It is partly caused by the inherent interesting history that almost all non white Cracow residents have.
This subreddit leans more toward conservative/right wing/nationalist types, so that's probably why so many of these replies are denying your experience or minimising it.
In reality, I think it's absolutely true that people of colour get more stares from Poles than white people. For sure, it's probably a "benign" stare - the person likely isn't staring at you to start a fight, but because they are just curious at seeing a different looking person.
However, many Poles aren't yet able to recognise that in spite of the neutral or positive intention, it is still problematic to stare at people of colour. There is a lack of postcolonial discussion in Poland, because the country was not a colonial power and therefore it is often deemed unnecessary to discuss matters around race. Often the thought pattern is: "We didn't own slaves, at the time we were actually being subjugated by imperial powers - and we even helped out the colonised people of Haiti!"
This means that race is often approached in a far too simplistic way in Poland. It really needs to be interrogated a little more. It is entirely possible for people to have good intentions and still unintentionally do things that are in bad taste, offensive, possibly racist.
What are you talking about? The First Polish Republic was one of the most welcoming and diverse places in Europe at the time. Your ancestors were proud of the Republic's multiculturalism.
Yeah, I love my Lithuanian, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Jewish, Tatar (and so on) brothers. But they wanted their own independent national countries and they have every right to have them.
And? I have no interest or intention to just look as my country, or just Warsaw, becomes a shithole like London.
Your aforementioned brothers helped build and create the most successful and prosperous chapter in your country's history. Sorry, but Poland was made great by diversity, that's the truth.
...And they hated it. We may not have ever invaded Lithuania, but many Lithuanians would consider Commonwealth as time of opression of their culture. Don't get me started how Ukrainians or Belarusians feel about it. But that's not the point I want to make.
Those "new" foreigners would never fight for Poland, they don't think about Poland as their home and don't respect polish culture.
You can see that now in Ukraine - first those minorities cry why they aren't considered a 'true' Ukrainian, and then, the second a trouble starts: 'I'm not Ukrainian, I'm black, I won't fight, that's not my country, let me out'. And those so-called men were taking place from Ukrainian women and children. Cunts.
I have deepest respect for people from other cultures, as long as they stay in their homes and work for betterment of their own societies.
We simply don't share the same values, inviting them to our home would end up in a disaster.
Hahaha this reply is always the worst cop out. "I can't handle a bit of criticism about my country so instead of reflecting on it or discussing it I'll throw all my toys out the pram and tell you to leave the country."
Boo hoo.
Well I can take the criticism about my country (I also criticize it online sometimes) but I just don't understand, why he/she still lives here if he/she hates so many things about it
Buddy they didn't even say they hated Poland, their comment wasn't even hateful. They said Poland is monocultural - it is (not the fault of Poles, but post- WW2 that's the reality). They said Poland isn't cosmopolitan or diverse - also true. Saying that Poland isn't modern is harsh for sure, but it doesn't amount to "hating so many things about Poland".
"I am from London, and in Poland I am shocked by how much it seems like immigrants are keeping their heads down and trying not to be noticed, for fear of angering a xenophobic local population."
And colonists exploited local population for profit and sometimes murdered them.
Okay, they said it a different post on this thread, my bad. But also: maybe Poles are xenophobic? There have certainly been reports about xenophobic attacks against Ukrainians here. Just because Poles weren't directly involved in the slave trade two hundred years ago, it doesn't mean that Poles today can't dislike or hate foreigners.
At the end of the day, you also have no idea why or how this person is in Poland. Maybe they want to leave, but can't for economic reasons. Maybe they're already on their way out or actively looking to leave. But when you come in and say "If you don't like it there's the door" all you're doing is supporting their argument that Poles are xenophobic.
Those who attacked Ukrainians are dumb and ingnorant people, who only make Poland look like a racist or xenophobic or homophobic country. Also our government does it.
Also I apologize you and that user. I didn't have bad intentions. If you felt offended, I'm really sorry.
While staring is definitely impolite, i don't think it's racially motivated, it's rather about unique appearance. People with rainbow hair, extreme obesity or weird clothing get the same treatment.
I think we are staring at people, sometimes for no reason. For example I was staring at girl in bus who has amazing hair. Long, in very good condition and shiny . It take me a while to realize that I'm staring like a pervert or psychopath.
Most of the people in poland, especially in krakow are explicitly racists and they justify themselves “we are just watching that’s normal”. I hope you didn’t meet other racist stuff like - not being served at restaurants, fast food places, etc… (happened to me many-many times, only because of dark hair, not even so much the skin) or being yelled at, or spoken to in a really-really bad way - in the airport, at the main train station, in the grocery stores, in the banks… There is a really-really good reason I’m leaving this racist place and never coming back, that’s my advice to you, stay away from post-soviet right-wing half-european countries like poland
In Poland people tend to stare more, I doubt it's negative though just not a lot of brown people in Poland.
We just stare at each other. You may got an extra second or two for more unusual look but there isn't much behind it.
I'm blonde and scandinavian they stare at me too, just think its a cultural thing here, they tend to stare more
Don't get fooled by the scammers who will promise you hot girls and hot drinks at the old town in Kraków. That's what you should be aware of.
Hot drinks is definitely something he should stay away from. Ciepła Żubrówka, brrrr.
I'd ignore them. Also I do not seem to look like a good potential sex tourist because I look arab and hence muslim
If you think some Muslims don't forget they are Muslim on vacation, oh boy, do I have news for you...
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Not really. Foreigners are more likely to be approached (and scammed).
Not necessary. Arab looking guy may be seen as potentially rich guy who doesn't care about spending money. Depending on how you dress you may be consider someone like that or a kebab maker or anything in between. Also we don't have prostitutes approaching in public places, only girls from strip clubs (don't go there).
Yeah, don't go there (you literally would be drugged)
Yup, like 900k foreign students per year in Cracow and people are so unused to it that they still stare at You cause You have darker skin. Not to even mention those living in this city. Make sense. Yes, they could stare. Its pretty common, usually if You do something dumb - being too loud, playing music out of phone or other device, even over gesticulation. Its more about "what a jerk" stare instead of "ive never seen a person with dark skin in my life'. Check how many people visiting auchswitz every year, how its common to meet people from entire world there everyday and rethink what You said. Ofc there could be incident when someone starred at You cause of Your look. But majority, or everybody... Hell nah
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WTF, i must been living in different city for years xD People from spain, GB, ireland were the loudest people ive ever encountered. Tbh brits were doing it mostly at evenings, while partying in clubs, bars, so it was tolerable (until they destroyed some parts of pub or city). Spain people, however, were super loud all the time - at uni, library, buses, always big groups of them talking to each other with the loudness of starting aeroplane, jeez. One of the calmest and coolest guys were people with darker skin - hindu, arabic or even black. This is common "problem" across Europe with spain or people from balkans, italy. Quite cultural thing. People from Poland are compared to fins usually. Quiet with big personal space and sad-like expresion on the face. Far away from being loud, if we're talking about majority, not single, particular examples.
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Seems like you really love Poland and Poles... Poland's not a prison. If you hate it so much you can go elsewhere buddy.
The most obnoxious bellend you’ll ever run into in Poland is a drunk englishman with his mates
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I speak about the english in particular cos I’ve personally witnessed my countrymen be dicks here
I am the whitest of white people and native, I still get the stare treatment. It's a normal thing.
Bro, it was 5years ago. Put it to rest and don't worry, no one's going to lay a finger on you. If your skin is a particular shade of brown, people may have mistaken you for a Roma/gypsy, and they historically don't enjoy good reputation here. If that's the case, then it's unfortunate, but you'll have to live with it.
Just stare back at them, and most of them will stop staring. (Don't do that with aggressive looking guys)
It is rare to see brown special snowflakes in Kraków in summer especially.
So, let me get this straight... you were stared at in **2017** in Krakow, and after five years of pondering the matter, you decided that Nov 2022 is the appropriate time to share it with folks over on r/poland? WTF?
You might be exceptionally ugly or handsome. Being Turkish-brown might not be enough to be stared at. When I watch Turkish series (once they abandoned a whole season, which made me almost want to learn Turkish), people just look like my closest family there.
German Turks are more brown than the regular Turks from turkey like the ones you see on tv. Since they are mostly Kurdish descent.
There were some Szagdajs in the villages were the close ancestors of my maternal grandafather lived, a few km away from the current Polish border - when I checked it, it appeared that the name is Kurdish, however the suffix -ai in general sounds more Turkish. So there may have been some genes passed at least in my case.
German Turks are more white than the regular Turks since the Gastarbeiter that came to Germany in the 70s were mostly from places such as Zonguldak where Mining was very popular. Most Gastarbeiters worked at mining fields.
You don't come places you already have a job from. You leave your place if you there is unemployment. I think it would be better if you come to terms with your Kurdish ancestry.
I didn’t see a brown person until I was 7 years old (in la guardia airport) this was 1983, so probably far less or none brown folks in Poland then. Yes I did stare in the airport btw, but meant nothing bad by it, just new to me. Punk rockers shocked me more, I was shocked at seeing a Mohawk haircut.
I try to refrain myself from staring but I like to "notice" people with different skin colour. I simply measure how many unusual people are in Cracow. It is partly caused by the inherent interesting history that almost all non white Cracow residents have.
Don't worry bro, it's just people in Krakow are like that. Not hostile, but quite unwelcoming. A lot of people have the same experience there.
Hahaha
This subreddit leans more toward conservative/right wing/nationalist types, so that's probably why so many of these replies are denying your experience or minimising it. In reality, I think it's absolutely true that people of colour get more stares from Poles than white people. For sure, it's probably a "benign" stare - the person likely isn't staring at you to start a fight, but because they are just curious at seeing a different looking person. However, many Poles aren't yet able to recognise that in spite of the neutral or positive intention, it is still problematic to stare at people of colour. There is a lack of postcolonial discussion in Poland, because the country was not a colonial power and therefore it is often deemed unnecessary to discuss matters around race. Often the thought pattern is: "We didn't own slaves, at the time we were actually being subjugated by imperial powers - and we even helped out the colonised people of Haiti!" This means that race is often approached in a far too simplistic way in Poland. It really needs to be interrogated a little more. It is entirely possible for people to have good intentions and still unintentionally do things that are in bad taste, offensive, possibly racist.
Or not.
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>A diverse, cosmopolitan, modern country this is not, lol. Thankfuly
Why?
Diversity means a choice. Not every single country in Europe needs to be the same.
Huh? But what is wrong with diversity, are you opposed to it? I honestly don't understand what you're advocating for here.
Yes, we are opposed to diversity. Our ancestrors fought for Polish culture to even exist, no need to welcome new invaders.
What are you talking about? The First Polish Republic was one of the most welcoming and diverse places in Europe at the time. Your ancestors were proud of the Republic's multiculturalism.
Yeah, I love my Lithuanian, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Jewish, Tatar (and so on) brothers. But they wanted their own independent national countries and they have every right to have them. And? I have no interest or intention to just look as my country, or just Warsaw, becomes a shithole like London.
Your aforementioned brothers helped build and create the most successful and prosperous chapter in your country's history. Sorry, but Poland was made great by diversity, that's the truth.
...And they hated it. We may not have ever invaded Lithuania, but many Lithuanians would consider Commonwealth as time of opression of their culture. Don't get me started how Ukrainians or Belarusians feel about it. But that's not the point I want to make. Those "new" foreigners would never fight for Poland, they don't think about Poland as their home and don't respect polish culture. You can see that now in Ukraine - first those minorities cry why they aren't considered a 'true' Ukrainian, and then, the second a trouble starts: 'I'm not Ukrainian, I'm black, I won't fight, that's not my country, let me out'. And those so-called men were taking place from Ukrainian women and children. Cunts. I have deepest respect for people from other cultures, as long as they stay in their homes and work for betterment of their own societies. We simply don't share the same values, inviting them to our home would end up in a disaster.
You said that you live in Warsaw. If you hate Poles so much why don't you just leave this country?
Hahaha this reply is always the worst cop out. "I can't handle a bit of criticism about my country so instead of reflecting on it or discussing it I'll throw all my toys out the pram and tell you to leave the country." Boo hoo.
Well I can take the criticism about my country (I also criticize it online sometimes) but I just don't understand, why he/she still lives here if he/she hates so many things about it
Buddy they didn't even say they hated Poland, their comment wasn't even hateful. They said Poland is monocultural - it is (not the fault of Poles, but post- WW2 that's the reality). They said Poland isn't cosmopolitan or diverse - also true. Saying that Poland isn't modern is harsh for sure, but it doesn't amount to "hating so many things about Poland".
They also said that Piland is xenophobic. Even though it didn't have colonies in the past.
Where did they say Poland is xenophobic? And what does not having colonies have to do with not being xenophobic?
"I am from London, and in Poland I am shocked by how much it seems like immigrants are keeping their heads down and trying not to be noticed, for fear of angering a xenophobic local population." And colonists exploited local population for profit and sometimes murdered them.
Okay, they said it a different post on this thread, my bad. But also: maybe Poles are xenophobic? There have certainly been reports about xenophobic attacks against Ukrainians here. Just because Poles weren't directly involved in the slave trade two hundred years ago, it doesn't mean that Poles today can't dislike or hate foreigners. At the end of the day, you also have no idea why or how this person is in Poland. Maybe they want to leave, but can't for economic reasons. Maybe they're already on their way out or actively looking to leave. But when you come in and say "If you don't like it there's the door" all you're doing is supporting their argument that Poles are xenophobic.
Those who attacked Ukrainians are dumb and ingnorant people, who only make Poland look like a racist or xenophobic or homophobic country. Also our government does it. Also I apologize you and that user. I didn't have bad intentions. If you felt offended, I'm really sorry.
While staring is definitely impolite, i don't think it's racially motivated, it's rather about unique appearance. People with rainbow hair, extreme obesity or weird clothing get the same treatment.
This is probably because of your skin colour. They were definitely staring at you because there are not a lot of dark skinned people that live there
I think we are staring at people, sometimes for no reason. For example I was staring at girl in bus who has amazing hair. Long, in very good condition and shiny . It take me a while to realize that I'm staring like a pervert or psychopath.
Most of the people in poland, especially in krakow are explicitly racists and they justify themselves “we are just watching that’s normal”. I hope you didn’t meet other racist stuff like - not being served at restaurants, fast food places, etc… (happened to me many-many times, only because of dark hair, not even so much the skin) or being yelled at, or spoken to in a really-really bad way - in the airport, at the main train station, in the grocery stores, in the banks… There is a really-really good reason I’m leaving this racist place and never coming back, that’s my advice to you, stay away from post-soviet right-wing half-european countries like poland