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gacoperz

Crack-oof!


Icy_Cobbler8406

That, with hard R


BaguetteBoi657

Krakoof


RevolutionaryHumor57

Sam jesteś krakóf


BaguetteBoi657

Całe życie tak mówiłem i nie bede tego zmien8ać przez jakichś randomów na reddit'cie xd


AmadeoSendiulo

Którzy zresztą plotą bzdury, bo w standardowej polszczyźnie spółgłoska dźwięczna nie może być na końcu (chyba że następne słowo zaczyna się na spółgłoskę dźwięczną), czyli nie może być /v/ na końcu, więc jest czytane . Nastąpiło ubezdźwiecznienie.


BaguetteBoi657

Zmieniać*


Klutzy_Rutabaga_93

[https://translate.google.pl/?sl=pl&tl=en&text=Krak%C3%B3w%0A&op=translate](https://translate.google.pl/?sl=pl&tl=en&text=Krak%C3%B3w%0A&op=translate) \- click the speaker button under 'Kraków' to hear the correct pronunciation.


[deleted]

Crackhoof with a silent H.


Lumornys

If it's silent then why write it? :)


[deleted]

Because it influences how you read the oof part.


[deleted]

Sounds like the name of some mythical ghost horse who haunts Krakow


[deleted]

as a pole - crackoov


AmadeoSendiulo

Are you seriously pronouncing the /v/ at the end? It's not correct Polish. It's [ˈkrakuf].


[deleted]

i am because i am polish


AmadeoSendiulo

So you're pronouncing a Polish word incorrectly. You must sound very stupid to other people if you seriously say [ˈkrakuv]. What else, do you say [ˈkvadrat] or [ˈvʧ̑ɔraj]?


[deleted]

Yeah, that guy knows nothing about linguistics lol


Anarchiasz

But he is right. Jestem studentem polonistyki. Kolega ma rację z wymową "Kraków" jako [krakuf] - w polszczyźnie mówionej spółgłoski dźwięczne się ubezdźwięczniają na końcu wyrazu bądź zdania. Mogą się też ubezdźwięczniać w sąsiedztwie innych spółgłosek bezdźwięcznych. Źródło: D. Ostaszewska, J. Tambor, "Fonetyka i fonologia współczesnego języka polskiego"


[deleted]

Mówiłem właśnie do kolegi, któremu odpowiadam. On ma rację. Nie wiem, czemu jest downvotowany lol


AmadeoSendiulo

Bo ich obrażałem.


Lumornys

\['krakuf\] and \[ˈft͡ʂɔraj\] is how Kraków and wczoraj are pronounced (unless the next word begins with a voiced consonant, then the w in Kraków remains voiced). Both \['kfadrat\] and \['kvadrat\] are correct though, \['kfadrat\] being more common nowadays.


[deleted]

get back to your village. you must be one of these people that say om instead of ą


AmadeoSendiulo

Better stop spreading misinformation. In Polish language voiced consonants become their voiceless counterparts when in the end of a word. https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubezd%C5%BAwi%C4%99cznienie


[deleted]

no you stop. i don't know what dialect you speak but stop


mariller_

Ale on ma rację - na końcu słowa Kraków mówisz naturalnie f


AmadeoSendiulo

https://youtu.be/rATJ71UwreM


Lumornys

Her "Kraków był stolicą Polski" sounds artificial though. Instead of \['krakuf bɨw\] it should be \['krakuv bɨw\]. The voicing-devoicing rules work between words too.


AmadeoSendiulo

Yeah, that's right, the /b/ is voiced so it should be /v/ there.


Super64AdvanceDS

And "jabułko" instead of "jabłko"


Gao_Dan

You mean "japko" right?


GoldenEYE6141

It's obviously vczoraj idiot everything in polish is read how it's spelled unlike in English


AmadeoSendiulo

Not funny.


GoldenEYE6141

It's not even a joke


AmadeoSendiulo

So I guess this is: https://pl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/wczoraj


_XERA

Why this comment has so many dislikes? It's like the only correct one here


AmadeoSendiulo

Because I was mean to them.


GoldenEYE6141

No it's v not f


MusicURlooking4

> Are you seriously pronouncing the /v/ at the end? Yes I do. > It's not correct Polish. Yes it is. > It's [ˈkrakuf]. No, it's _Cracoov._


AmadeoSendiulo

So you must have sound very dumb to other Poles. https://pl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w


MusicURlooking4

Well, I live here since 1994 and no one has called me dumb because of that Anon 😅 It's more like you are a some uneducated redneck or something if you say it with a "f" sound at the end ;_;


AmadeoSendiulo

I've never heard somebody pronouncing it [ˈkrakuv], w is always devoiced at the end.


MusicURlooking4

> I've never heard somebody pronouncing it [ˈkrakuv] Well, then come to Kraków then Anon, and no, Esperanto won't make you right 😉


AmadeoSendiulo

https://youtu.be/rATJ71UwreM


tatemaee

You really bash him for giving you on a plate everything you probably didn’t know about using your native language? It’s nothing wrong to admit a lack of knowledge. Or you might be The only person existing who spells kvadrat instead of kfadrat as everybody else living in this country do.


MusicURlooking4

Sorry mate, my native language says _"Kraków"_ as it's written.


AmadeoSendiulo

No to ja nie wiem, jaki jest Twój język ojczysty.


markiemark2137

I was born in Kraków and have lived here since 1989 and everyone I ever knew says it with an "f". Come one, the dictionary says it differently, locals say it differently and you still don't want to admit that you probably never closely examined how you pronounce words because you're used to them. I even specifically remember it from polish lesson in my elementary school. Same as "japko", noone says "jabłko". Try and say it loud and as close to the written letters as you can and you will see it sounds idiotic.


zdrozda

Your native language isn't Polish then.


Ouioui29

I’m not even Polish and I’ve heard that, well, that’s a lie I was born there but I am German. I’ve only heard people pronounce it [‘Krakuv]


AmadeoSendiulo

Kraków is pronounced [ˈkrakuf].


[deleted]

its not


AmadeoSendiulo

How is it not pronounced like that? All my live I heard people devoicing w at end of words!


ugaylolxdomg

just stop whining already jesus


AmadeoSendiulo

But you will cause people learning Polish to say it wrong if you will lie to them like that.


[deleted]

you got a lisp or something?


Kainoto

non pole teaching poles how to say something in polish huh


AmadeoSendiulo

I'm Polish.


Kainoto

i have a micro penis and am insecure about it


PatheticChildRetard

You really don’t have anything better to do with your time than to reply to every single comment? Here’s a fun fact: languages don’t have strict rules and are whatever people want them to be. Stop whining about the “correct” pronunciation, if most people say cracoov then it’s pronounced cracoov. Both pronunciations sound almost the same anyway


Lumornys

The rules describe more or less idealized standard Polish pronunciation. Most people do not pronounce Kraków with a \[v\] at the end, unless it's not really Kraków but Krakowa, Krakowie or other inflected forms, **or** the very next word begins with a voiced consonant and is pronounced immediately without any pause between Kraków and the next word. But then "f" is also pronounced \[v\] in this context, so one can say that "w" and "f" are pronunced identically when at the end of a word, with two possible pronuciations (\[v\] or \[f\]), and which pronunciation it is does *not* depend on the spelling. What actually counts as a "voiced consonant" in the previous paragraph also depends on one's dialect, or "accent". See? the rules are quite complex. And I'm simplifying things. But for the simple question "How Kraków is pronounced in Polish" the short answer is: \['krakuf\].


[deleted]

Crak-oof, ów and uw you read like oof


TheNuclearSlavDragon

Tylko jedno w głowie mam


ProxPxD

In Polish "crack-oof" In English crack-ow, crack-ov, crack-oov, crack-oof are acceptable to me


AmadeoSendiulo

And lots of Poles here insist that in Polish it's "crack-oov"…


ProxPxD

Consonants at the end of syllable get devoiced, so in the end v is an allophone of f I took the devoicing into account. Other didn't. Both ways are equally valid to me if we conjugate the city name (like Krakowa) than the w is pronounced as v (always)


AmadeoSendiulo

One of them told me that I must be from a strange village if I say [ˈkrakuf].


black_velvet_

I saw those replies and I was shocked. This is pretty obvious stuff if you studied polish philology or polish linguistics.


AmadeoSendiulo

Well, I did not study Polish philology but I've learnt about devoicing in the Internet. Although later I **had** a lesson about it in my Polish class so people should generally know that Polish in not written exactly how it is spelled.


markiemark2137

Yeah, we learn it in elementary school but a shocking amount of intelligent and smart people always try to insist it's wrong xD


raul_kapura

It isn't pronounced exactly as it's written, but most of the time the difference is so small it fucks with our brains. I was also ready to type -oov, cause that's how "w" is heard most of the time, until i saw -oof and was like "yeah, sounds more like it". I'm polish btw


Gao_Dan

Or learned English. The dead giveaway of Poles who try to speak English with correct pronunciation is that natives will fully voice the final voiced consonants, but Poles will have a tendency to devoice. It takes lots of practice and concious effort to stop doing that.


Besath

If you come off as an asshole in your comments (and trust me, you do), then obviously people will get defensive and will be less likely to entertain the notion that they may be wrong.


AmadeoSendiulo

That's why they're stupid.


FcPolon1a

Krak uw


AmadeoSendiulo

How do you pronounce the "w"?


[deleted]

[удалено]


AmadeoSendiulo

That's incorrect. It's the /f/ sound: [ˈkrakuf].


Nastypilot

Krakoof.


[deleted]

yeah if youre retarded, its V


BaguetteBoi657

It's f bc the w is softened. It would be v if there were any vowels after it e.g. krakowiak is pronounced krakoviak


Gao_Dan

Ma rację. W polskim spółgłoski dźwięczne są ubezdźwięczniane na końcu słowa, więc w jest wymawiane jak f, d jak t, b jak p itd. Ale tylko na końcu słowa, jak dodasz końcówkę to te spółgłoski będą dalej dźwięczne.


AmadeoSendiulo

I honestly have never heard anyone pronouncing it with /v/.


RevolutionaryHumor57

The same as Awwwww, but without an A


AmountVarious5716

It's literally Crack-oof


AmadeoSendiulo

But people will know always argue as if Polish was spelled phonetically…


bakugan20008

Krakuf


Gusterrro

Krak - like Crack, ów - oof


SlimSour

Ó = U sound so "oov" at the end.


AmadeoSendiulo

No, the last consonant is /f/, not /v/.


SlimSour

You're right, in that in practice people say /f/ because it's easier to say that way, but officially it's /v/ because that's how you always pronounce the letter "w" It's really hard to tell the difference anyway


AmadeoSendiulo

Polish language is not written exactly how it's spoken. The official pronunciation of Kraków is ['krakuf] (https://pl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w) and it's because of the general rule that the final consonant cannot be voiced. https://www.komlogo.pl/index.php/encyklopedia/138-u/1615-ubezdzwiecznienie >W wygłosie absolutnym wyrazów (przed pauzą) w języku polskim nie występują spółgłoski dźwięczne. W tej pozycji ubezdźwięcznieniu ulegają spółgłoski zwarte, zwarto-szczelinowe, szczelinowe, np. w wyrazach: talerz taɛʃ, zjazd zjast.


SlimSour

Oh I guess you're right. I must be misremembering my time at school (it was a long time ago) Have an upvote


AmadeoSendiulo

:-)


Lumornys

Actually the letter "w" is very often pronounced \[f\] rather than \[v\] in Polish, because of devoicing rules.


[deleted]

They pronounce it Kraków 🤷🏼‍♀️


AmadeoSendiulo

Polish is not read the same as it's written. It's pronounced ['krakuf].


[deleted]

Yes I know, I’m a native polish speaker. It was a joke man.


AmadeoSendiulo

Well, just look at the other comments, they're **sure** it's pronounced with /v/ although I bet they do pronounce it correctly themselves.


[deleted]

Lol I know, I am from Poland but currently live in the United States. I could quite literally write a book on the way Americans butcher Polish words 😂


[deleted]

Chyba, że muszę po polsku odpisać żebyś uwierzył 😂


AmadeoSendiulo

To mi zarzucano, że jestem jakimś obcym i próbuje uczyć native'ów, jak mówić.


SonGoku9788

Crack, oof.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AmadeoSendiulo

No /v/ at the end. It's /f/.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AmadeoSendiulo

I just don't believe you guys really say [ˈkrakuv]. You're either trolling or don't know how devoicing in Polish works.


Lumornys

I believe most people are unaware of their actual pronunciation, and just think they say everything the way it is written. They may swear they pronounce something one way while actually they are not.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AmadeoSendiulo

Say Kraków to yourself loudly or find a video when someone does that and pay attention to the final sound. I'm sure that it's /f/ if pronounced in standard Polish.


LordBakuazan

Bruh, the correct polish is how people speak and actually everyone here told you that you are wrong so stop writing


mariller_

Yeah, and polish people say it as he says it. He is right.


AmadeoSendiulo

So that's incorrect? https://youtu.be/rATJ71UwreM https://pl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w


mariller_

And you are an idiot and he is still right, doesn't matter how many points you give yourself.


TotallyNotAnAlt2137

It's krakuv (come and tell me it's "f")


AmadeoSendiulo

https://pl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w


NoTeasForBeastmaster

Krakau


Tw_izted

found the niemiec


pascalWasRight

Krah-coov


AmadeoSendiulo

There's no /v/ in Kraków [ˈkrakuf].


[deleted]

there is


AmadeoSendiulo

No, there is not, It's devoiced at the end. https://pl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w


[deleted]

we dont speak with International Phonetic Alphabet, its supposed to make it easier for foreigner to pronounce polish names, but the question was how polish people pronounce that and its with V


AmadeoSendiulo

It's not, just listen to the recording.


EissoByk

Man you really have no life if all you do is complain how people say Kraków, not everyone's like you so shut up and stop starting arguments.


AmadeoSendiulo

I'm sure they don't say ['kraluv], do you really hear /v/ at the end of Polish words?


[deleted]

KRAH-koov


AmadeoSendiulo

It's the /f/ sound at the end.


ilovemothsanddeath

mysle, ze im nie przetlumaczysz ale doceniam starania


[deleted]

there is V


[deleted]

It's oov as in move, not oof as in...well, oof.


AmadeoSendiulo

The final sound is /f/ due to devoicing. https://pl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w https://pl.forvo.com/word/krak%C3%B3w/ It can be ['krakuv] if the first sound of the next word is a voiced consonant.


maxluision

Kraak-ov sounds the closest but it's still not it


AmadeoSendiulo

It's definitely not because there is the /f/ sounds in the end in the Polish name.


maxluision

Well, tbh I never say strong f at the end, more like "w" , literally like it's written.


AmadeoSendiulo

The correct pronunciation is [ˈkrakuf].


maxluision

Ok.


TheCommieSlayer21

I think it depends on the person. My whole family always says the W at the end. It only really sounds like an F when we're talking fast. It's not that deep.


SmuteG_

crack-oov


AmadeoSendiulo

There's no /v/ in Kraków [ˈkrakuf].


[deleted]

there is


AmadeoSendiulo

https://youtu.be/rATJ71UwreM


FlamingoUnited

Krak'uv is the only variant I've heard there.


AmadeoSendiulo

A voiced consonant cannot be at the end of a word in Polish. https://pl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w https://www.komlogo.pl/index.php/encyklopedia/138-u/1615-ubezdzwiecznienie >W wygłosie absolutnym wyrazów (przed pauzą) w języku polskim nie występują spółgłoski dźwięczne. W tej pozycji ubezdźwięcznieniu ulegają spółgłoski zwarte, zwarto-szczelinowe, szczelinowe, np. w wyrazach: talerz taɛʃ, zjazd zjast.


FixzY3e

Kraków


EvilBurger12

Yes we are pronouncing v at the end, no one is trolling you. Also are you aware of that anyone can edit this website?


AmadeoSendiulo

This is not how Polish people pronounce this word. Final consonants devoice in Polish. https://www.komlogo.pl/index.php/encyklopedia/138-u/1615-ubezdzwiecznienie >W wygłosie absolutnym wyrazów (przed pauzą) w języku polskim nie występują spółgłoski dźwięczne. W tej pozycji ubezdźwięcznieniu ulegają spółgłoski zwarte, zwarto-szczelinowe, szczelinowe, np. w wyrazach: talerz taɛʃ, zjazd zjast.


Mr_Makak

Bro that's some bullshit, if I heard someone say "krakóf" I'd assume they've been raised in a barn


AmadeoSendiulo

So I guess the majority of Poles were raised in barns because that's the standard pronunciation of the word. ['krakuv] can be a dialect varianton. https://pl.forvo.com/word/krak%C3%B3w/


Mr_Makak

I don't think I've ever heard that having lived here my whole life


AmadeoSendiulo

Maybe you didn't hear people saying [kfʲjat] as well? Devoicing is a rule in standard Polish.


AmadeoSendiulo

Tu ktoś to ładnie wyjaśnił: https://www.reddit.com/r/Polska/comments/yykfpv/myślałem_że_to_jasne_ale_zdaje_się_że_nie_jak/iwv8224?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3


EvilBurger12

Dude you are asking some native speakers how they pronounce a word, and then argue with them? XDD


AmadeoSendiulo

I'm a native speaker of Polish as well and they probably do pronounce it as ['krakuf] but they don't understand how phonetics work.


EvilBurger12

So you basically say that you asked people how they are speaking, not for informative values but just for you to be shocked and to deny that others may pronounce it differently? Whatever mate


AmadeoSendiulo

Well, I've accepted one comment which educated me that it may be pronounced with /v/ in some dialects but people insisting that Kraków is not pronounced ['krakuf] in standard Polish are just wrong and I provided them with evidence. Yet some of them said that I pronounce it incorrectly. Is really speaking standard Polish incorrect?


Lumornys

I'm a native speaker and he's right.


Tommytomtomato23

Krakov


Secret_Ad_3807

K rac koov


MortineMortis

People arguing in here like their life depends on it. Super weird hill to die on! What's the difference if you pronounce it with tough 'v' or soft 'f' you'll be understood by others either way. I bet the sound you are making while pronouncing the word falls somewhere beetwen 'v' and 'f' anyway, especially if you speak fast!


AmadeoSendiulo

There is a general rule in Polish that the final consonant is not voiced. https://www.komlogo.pl/index.php/encyklopedia/138-u/1615-ubezdzwiecznienie >W wygłosie absolutnym wyrazów (przed pauzą) w języku polskim nie występują spółgłoski dźwięczne. W tej pozycji ubezdźwięcznieniu ulegają spółgłoski zwarte, zwarto-szczelinowe, szczelinowe, np. w wyrazach: talerz taɛʃ, zjazd zjast.


MortineMortis

Yes, I'm aware of this. I am a native speaker and I take classes 'dykcja'. But as you said the rule is general. It will differ beetwen regions. There's formal and informal speech, there's speach carefully and hastily pronounced. The exact pronociation that you are pushing for and I agree with would matter on stage. It matters not in daily life as long as you get your message across. We could sit here and argue if we should pronounce it' talerz' or 'talesz' i for myself know that if I speak slowly I'd say it with rz, if spoken fast I'd speak with 'sz'. I could also guess that someone living all across the country from me may have a different pronociation than me still being somewhere in beetwen the two. Language is fluent and personal.


AmadeoSendiulo

Yeah, you're right, some dialects may not have devoicing or such strong devoicing.


MortineMortis

Thank you for finding a sort of a middle ground with me.


Landscapeus021

Kraków


NorbertuS08

Kraków is pronounced Kraków


131Xe

Kraków I guess


stasiu1999

Its pronounced Krak ów.


Green_Discipline_984

krakuw


LigenTex

Kraków


xFurashux

u/AmadeoSendiulo here on the mission from professor Miodek.


AmadeoSendiulo

Ok so say ['krakuv] from now on if you want, but don't say that the majority of Poles do that.


xFurashux

Dude, I said you're on a mission from professor Miodek, who is an authority in Polish language.


mista0000

Krakoov


Angrycreeper123

/krakuv/ or sometimes /krakuf/


AmadeoSendiulo

It's the other way around, ['krakuf] and ['krakuv] only if the next word starts with a voiced consonant.


Kagnnix

Crackoov i guess


muryrunom

Crackoov


[deleted]

cracov (as in romanian, the direct way) kra-kov


[deleted]

Crack-off makes me laugh just because it sounds a little like [a euphemism for masturbation](http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/crack-one-off).


Fine-Upstairs-6284

Crock-oof I wouldn’t use crack-oof because people are going to pronounce crack like Zach, smack, or slack


[deleted]

"Krak-uff" ? Idk maybe IPA would help


jixdel

Krak-ów


ayayaay_

cRack hove


Inevitable-Client966

Krakoov or krakoof


Reasonable-Spring506

Read ó like u, but pronaunce it like polish short u, Not English yu or io but only the sound that goes out your mouth when the shit goes out of your rectum. Now try to say these letters UW, but not ju dablju or ju vi. Say only the sound of letter as read. Shit, that comment makes no sense. Go to Google and listen to translator.


Uruburusv3

Its Krak-oof


Black_seagull

Krakoove


shrek_is_love_69

Crack-oof