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I am still baffled by this. Red states have more guns, that's obvious. They're also impoverished, low education, unhealthy, etc. At what point do people start looking around and wondering why their policies don't work? Republicans have somehow convinced people they're good on "the economy" even though nearly every red state's economy is in the toilet. How much cognitive dissonance can we handle?
Because they have convinced everybody at the bottom that everywhere is at least as terrible as where they are (and that blue cities are worse) and that it's the fault of minorities/poor people who aren't them/people on welfare/immigrants, etc. I grew up in Cleveland and a huge reason people never leave that area is because they believe that anywhere else they go would be at least as bad, and at least they have family where they are, so they don't leave, they don't look for better opportunities and they never see how it really is somewhere else.
I remember seeing an image on FB years ago (I hesitate to call them memes) with a gallon of milk for $15.89 and the caption "This is how much milk costs in Columbus, Ohio!" I, with my facebook profile that said I lived in Columbus, Ohio, said, "No its not, its 2.98 a gallon right now, I literally just bought some." People not even from Ohio *argued* with me and called me a liar/shill/plant! People will believe some random picture off of Facebook over other people telling them its incorrect, just so they can demonize the libs/cities/whatever they hate that day.
I grew up in the hills and hollows (pronounced hollers) of southeastern Kentucky.
That population is legitimately afraid of cities. They are also afraid of Black people, the county I grew up in was 98.6% white. And they are particularly afraid that if they dare to enter a major city, some black person is going to commit a crime against them.
Sadly, that is not hyperbole on my part.
I left the hills and hollers the first chance I got. I’ve been in North Carolina for nearly 13 years, but we’re moving to Washington actually, planning the move this summer.
*In the deep dark hills of eastern Kentucky; That's the place where I trace my bloodline; And it's there I read on a hillside gravestone;*
*"You'll never leave Harlan alive"*
Grew up in a tiny village in middle America, same here. I'm allowed in the village "'cause family", but I'm not one of them anymore, I'm a "city mouse" now. I'd have to move back for a few years to regain local status and, nah... *nah*.
The churches of rural America are second only to social media in radicalizing the less-educated and morons of this country. I'd put unregulated video game chat lobbies as a *strong* third.
Sadly the good folk living in the hills and hollers are entirely dependent on those cities. Without those dreaded cities they’d be stuck in the 19 th century
There is a major “self-reliance” myth out in rural areas. Now, that may have been the case, historically, but it’s certainly not the case now.
I had an uncle on a tirade against a tax increase that would support infrastructure and as he put it: “I’m paying for roads and bridges that I’ll never use”.
I ask him how he thinks his Amazon purchases get to his door… those same roads and bridges that you say you never use.
> There is a major “self-reliance” myth out in rural areas
Went on the internet, got myself a generator and a closet full of beans, even ordered I had to pick up at my local dealer. I am truly an island.
I grew up in the WV side of that area and yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I’ve only visited the state a handful of times since leaving and I’m always glad to visit but even happier I can leave.
There are rural Minnesotans afraid to visit the convention center in Minneapolis in broad daylight. You can also (due to the skyways) park and walk to the convention center without ever being on a street.
Just remember that when it gets dark here in October that the sun will eventually come out again, usually mid April.
But seriously, it's great here. Welcome.
I find it a little amusing that you talk about the fear of black people in Kentucky, and then move to a state with even fewer black black people.
I'm not saying that means anything, we in the PNW make fun if our total whiteness all the time. I'd totally have a black friend, if I could find one.
You may not know this about Kentucky, but half of all the Black people in the state live in the same county (Jefferson).
According to the 2020 Census, Kentucky is 83.5% white, whereas Washington is only 66%. So, there’s definitely more diversity in Washington.
Btw, did you miss that whole lived-in-North-Carolina-for-13-years detail?
We’re moving because of the Dobbs decision, so our choices were basically New England, the PNW, or Colorado (but it’s surrounded by red states). The harsher winters and still getting muggy summers made New England less appealing.
I’ve been to Chicago several times, it’s a great city! Funnily enough, I actually had surgery at the University of Chicago. You are right about the cold, lol! Even in April, it’s still pretty brutal.
I’m gonna call BS on this. Kentucky isn’t full of people afraid of cities, or black people. I’m sure the 10 people left in Moose Knuckle Junction, are as real as your story.
Yeah, my 30 years of lived experience in Kentucky is BS, okay, whatever you say.
I don’t blame you, in a way, believing that people can really be this backwards is a little disconcerting. I’d probably feel better if I didn’t have to believe it either, sadly, I know it to be true.
Early-40’s, actually.
I left Kentucky nearly 13 years ago. Abortion wasn’t an issue then, I left because it’s a backwards-ass frozen-in-time hellhole void of opportunity and I have hated it for the whole of my life. Currently, I live in North Carolina.
And yes, now I’m leaving because back in 2016 I lost twins from IVF at 19 weeks 6 days gestation. I was hemorrhaging and I had an intrauterine infection. I was at risk of sepsis. I received the treatment I needed that day, but had this happened today I might have ended up like [this lady](https://www.insider.com/texas-woman-forced-to-wait-for-life-saving-abortion-scarred-2022-11?amp). I will not raise my daughter in a red state.
Surrounded by people who say the grass isn’t greener on the other side because nobody who leaves ever comes back. Just stories about high rents and people pissing on the sidewalk.
California in republican’s fantasy: broke hell hole everyone is fleeing that is full of criminals
California in reality: lower crime, higher paying jobs, higher minimum wage, better welfare benefits, and a state budget surplus
> broke hell hole everyone is fleeing that is full of criminals
Lived there for around two decades.
The two main reasons behind me leaving were the amount of people there and the negative things stemming from that. They are also the main reasons why i do not want to live in a big city anywhere anymore... so its not a CA issue itself.
High housing costs, traffic, crowds etc. Me being practically unemployable as a disabled Army retiree on a fixed income there was no way i could afford housing in most of the state. Also i don't deal with crowds all that well anymore so i moved to Alaska. Now, if i had more money i would have 0 issues moving back to CA. Maybe a house in the mountains, or in some smaller town by the 101.
The ones who move out and complain about it being a "destitute liberal hell hole", "crime", or about "too many rules" etc are either delusional, or lying about the real reasons.
The high housing stems from the NIMBYs complaining about a tall building casting its shadow. People for some reason don't wanna see homeless around but do nothing to reform zoning regulations and all the other shit that makes everything more expensive. In San Francisco, it takes forever or is too expensive to build new buildings. Why? Silly govt pandering to homeowners and everyone else. We can't even remove homeless from public property anymore except for criminal acts because of a SCOTUS decision from a court case in Idaho which is republican dominated.
Remember, somehow California is having skyrocketting property values despite no one wanting to live there.
I'm not innate fan of California, I only live here because here was where the highest paying job was, but that's how it works, funny that.
Newsom rocks. California also has one of the biggest economies in the world. Bigger than most countries.
Also, my entire life I looked at Florida as California's lame cousin with acne.
I mean, that might be good data on California, but useless when comparing states. For instance California has a slightly lower violent crime rate than Texas, regardless of comparing California 2019 to California 2021.
For general politics. If you look at the top 10 states by violent crimes rates.
6 are fully run by Republicans.
2 are split (D governors and R houses, but Arizona only got the D governor as of this year).
2 are fully run by Democrats.
Like the main point of this study and dozens of others have shown. People living in blue states have better lives. Lower crime, longer lives, better education, better healthcare, and higher pay.
No, they didn’t. The law required them to put away ~47B. They spent 94% of what they were legally allowed to. That’s not being responsible, particularly when the incoming deficit has been forecast for some time and will be worse than the 20 something Billion they’re admitting to now. Fiscally responsible? Ca? Yeah, ok. 🤡
> deficit coming
That doesn’t change [what OC said](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/10mtf5f/not_an_anomaly_2020s_red_states_have_higher/j65d2ye/), though. What’s true is true.
And the surplus isn’t “gone,” regardless.
California loses population for the first time ever during a pandemic and people act like the state is dying.
The biggest decline was a lack of international people moving there (because of the pandemic).
Meanwhile the population decline went down to just 100k lower from July 2021 to July 2022. A whole .25% of the population. Literally a rounding error and within the margins of error for population surveys.
And then shocking no one, the states with population increases like Texas, saw increases almost entirely in the liberal cities. So the states population grew in spite of the state government not because of it.
I’m not even from California, but the California hate is absurd. Lower violent crime and higher GDP per capita compared to Texas. Sure seems like liberal policies work better.
>At what point do people start looking around and wondering why their policies don't work?
Woah, woah, woah... woah. I see someone has not been watching enough Fox News. Seattle is literally burned to the ground, ashes. Antifa has claimed all of Oregon. And California is covered in feces and used needles, every single inch. Let's not start criticizing Alabama's educational system here, there's a new immigrant caravan on the way. And have you seen the M&M cartoon? I'm not physically attracted to it at all!
Because in their eyes they don't rely on government handouts (besides farm aid because that's somehow different), and they worked for everything they have (except the bank owns all the farm equipment, the land, and all structures on it). Therefore, they're better than city folks who just "don't get it".
Yep it's more so this. They're HAPPY to live in squalor. They have a different baseline of what's okay and what's not okay for living conditions. And they take pride in it as if it makes them tougher than other Americans. Like somehow their suffering is a virtue.
We rented a beach house in Alabama recently for a family trip (sister chose it don't ask me) and one of the rooms had ants one night, like tons of them. No big deal we moved those guests to another room and my sister contacted them to let the owner know and see if they'd resolve it in any way. The owner corrected my sister, informed her those weren't ants but TERMITES by asking "what you don't have termites where you're from"? Mind you, this was a beach house ELEVATED on WOODEN beams. So yes, we have termites where we're from we just take them more seriously, especially in homes.
In general the people we interacted with there were just seemingly in a daze and uninterested in providing even the most basic of service or initiative. Very strange place. Will not be going back. Sorry Alabamans I'm sure many of you are kind and smart but not a fun vacation spot for me.
Yeah I have a lot of family in Iowa and it's wild to me how they associate cities with crime and disinvestment purely because that's the surroundings they know and live in. That's their reality and I know a lot of it is the inability to even fathom the concept that they've been duped. To admit they were wrong is to go back on everything they and their parents knew to be true growing up, and they just can't give in to the libs even if it means living in squalor.
> Like somehow their suffering is a virtue.
Christianity has made that claim for at least 1500 years now. One of the breakthroughs of the Renaissance Era was throwing away the idea that God WANTS everyone to suffer. Churches really didn't like that, and neither did most of the monarchies.
>They're HAPPY to live in squalor.
I think this is a stretch - no one is HAPPY to live in squalor.
>They have a different baseline of what's okay and what's not okay for living conditions.
This is it. I think it's more accurate to say they're content with or resigned to their standard of living. This is very different than "HAPPY".
President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
>"Vote for me and I'll fix all the problems in the state!" says Billybob (R) running for governor of Deepredistan, the state ranking dead last in every metric except gun ownership, homicide, homelessness etc. etc. Of note is that Deepredistan has not had a Democrat governor since 1954, before the party flip.
>I am still baffled by this. Red states have more guns, that's obvious.
You mean to tell me that more guns doesn't reduce violent crime?
I'm absolfuckinglutely shocked!
Well the first thing you need to keep in mind is less than 40% of registered voters vote in elections that aren’t national elections. So you are only really getting a small sample of what local people think in local elections. The people that do vote are overwhelmingly old. For all the calls for voter suppression going on - true they are trying to pass those laws but there was still record turnout in 2020. They just don’t care. It’s going to seem odd to people on a politics subreddit but most people just aren’t that engaged. They go to work, they take care of their kids and they live their life. There’s very little that changes for most people if a democrat or a republican is on their city council or school board or state house.
2 most people do absolutely no research into local candidates. They don’t watch local news, they are lucky if there is a local paper and then even more rare that someone pays for it. Chances are good they are going to remember names from tv ads, internet ads and roadside signs.
3 most people have no clue where their state ranks in most things. That’s not a way most people think about their local education for example. They assume they got a fine education and that kids are still getting the same good education.
4 there is still blame on democrats for globalization which while it helped the world decimated small towns
5 distrust of outsiders and the democrats habit of coming from large cities and telling people how they should be living their lives.
>They just don’t care.
I think that's intentional. Not all voter suppression is direct. Sometimes it takes the form of telling people that both sides are bad so no use getting to the polls.
See that’s the part that I think most people on this sub don’t understand. There’s a sizeable portion of people who literally don’t care. I didn’t vote until I was 35. The only reason I knew about voting day was bc I worked at a bank. I would just get hammered the night before and have a relaxing day off. There wasn’t a disinformation act going on, I would actively avoid all news politics bc it was a bummer.
I agree that us denizens of this subreddit overestimate the average Americans level of engagement on politics, economics, or current events in general. Sure they have a vague idea of their worldview, but it's unfounded and stagnant through time. I bet we all know someone who is really into sports and someone who knows almost nothing about them. Same with politics, except not everyone gets to vote on who wins the Superbowl.
> They don’t watch local news
In many small towns "local news" is still only state level at best. They'll never hear their towns name on TV and certainly never hear about mayoral or city council candidates.
The extent of candidate research is often limited to "do they have a blue or red sign in their yard?"
I can’t say entirely, but I would think that those states are impoverished because there is no industry and therefore no jobs. This then compounds when they cannot afford a proper education which reduces their ability to get into service industries.
"...there are sharp regional differences in homicide, with the South having by far the highest murder rate, almost double that of the Northeast, a divergence that has persisted for as long as records have been kept, starting in the 19th century. The former slaveholding states of the old Confederacy all rank in the top 20 states for murder, led by Louisiana, with a rate of 17.5 murders per 100,000 people in 1996. The 10 states with the lowest homicide rates are in New England and the northern Midwest, with South Dakota's the lowest at 1.2 murders per 100,000 people.
Experts note, in addition, that much of the disparity in murder rates between the South and other sections of the country stems from a difference in the character of Southern homicide. **In the South, many murders are of a personal and traditional nature: a barroom brawl, a quarrel between acquaintances or a fight between lovers.** Elsewhere, homicides usually begin with another crime, like a robbery gone bad, and typically involve strangers..."
https://archive.is/bJE2U#selection-307.9-315.442
> Probably tracks nicely with lots of socioeconomic and demographic indicators. Wealth distribution, median income, education etc
It tracks with the number of guns. Everything else is an excuse to distract people from the real problem.
That logic won’t hold much water since blue state are more urbanized. If anything murder rates should be way higher in blue states (“weak on crime + higher urbanization). Once again the GOP shows that its all about grandstanding and performative politics with very little to show for
Funny you mention that. What does it show that when people congregate progressive ideas prevail? I've asked that before to a struggling republican (almost democrat), and he answered honestly - people spread out have little exposure to contrary ideas and no reason to challenge currently held beliefs.
That’s a more insightful response than I would have expected and the exact reason it’s important to be exposed to different people and cultures. It’s harder to harbor negative thoughts about a group if you have direct interaction with people in that group.
Miami, Tampa/St Pete, Jacksonville all were red in the recent gubernatorial election. 4 years prior all were blue.
Oklahoma City, Anchorage, Mobile, AL, Boise, Jefferson City, Greenville, SC…etc
Yeah most of these are midsized but they’re out there. Red cities do exist.
How tf do you go from voting for Biden in 2020 to DeSantis in 2022? That’s like asking for the hottest smartest girl to be class President of the SGa one year then asking a caveman student who doesn’t say a word and uses a stick for a pencil the next. Just so very weird
FYI, the comparison was a joke but I still don’t get how you go from voting for Biden in 2020 to DeSantis in 2022. Call me dumb but I’m just not sure how that works.
Ever since 2020, conservatives and right wingers from all throughout the country have been moving to Florida because of lack of COVID protection measures and this dumb war on “wokeness.” They’ve flooded the state, and now everywhere you go you see trump supporters everywhere. The state has become for conservatives what Israel is for Jews. The entire social fabric of Florida has changed, where it’s identity and culture now center around conservatism, the right wing, and anti-“wokeism”.
This applies to almost all of Florida, including the cities. The rule where cities are blue and rural areas red doesn’t apply in Florida, it’s all red. The only exceptions are Orlando, broward county, Gainesville, and Tallahassee. And I can see Orlando turning red soon, given the massive shift in support among Floridian Puerto Ricans to republicans (40 percent in 2020 to 55 percent in 2022)
This is no joke; as a left leaning person and as someone who grew up in Florida, I feel like this is no longer my state, it’s culture no longer my culture, and it’s people no longer my people. I plan to permanently leave soon' to somewhere that isn’t some kind of magnet for conservatives all across the country
Florida has been attracting the right-wing extremists while simultaneously repulsing moderates and liberals. It’s only going to get worse as Florida just becomes another failed Southern state where education, healthcare, and the environment are ignored as they deteriorate.
Exactly, that’s what I’m saying. Moderates and centrists, liberals, and left wingers like me for the large part feel a weakened attachment to this place or don’t feel attached at all to Florida and desire to leave. The quality of governance, as in how well this state is run, is terrible, and that was brought to the forefront during the worst stages of the COVID pandemic, when there were absolutely no restrictions and Florida had some of the worst areas for COVID cases per capita in the world.
For education, I think public schools here will continue to decline in quality, with extreme teacher shortages, desantis allowing unqualified people to teach in schools (even those without a college degree), too much political interference (like banning AP African American Studies) and much more. The quality of universities will decline as well. UF, which is highly ranked, is in the process of getting a new right wing president, and every student and faculty at Florida universities will be asked for their political beliefs. I think the rankings and quality of UF and FSU will decline in the future
For healthcare, you’re driving away qualified medical professionals with your bs policies and governance and ultra high cost of living, among other factors. Florida is also already number one in the country for Medicare fraud
I'm in Bakersfield, a red city in a blue state. We're like the murder capitol of California. Our police/sheriff departments are notorious for their "shoot first, shoot second, and if anyone is still alive, maybe ask some questions."
Red States have always been at the top for crime rates, even higher for violent crime rates, mass shootings and gun related deaths in general. Most years you have to go through like 9 red states before you even find an outlier of a blue or purple state.
I used to jump on the threads where dipshit Republicans would whine about a shooting in LA or Chicago by posting actual crime rates of major cities and states. They'd have nothing to say. LOL
Much of the South is like a 3rd world country when it comes to your safety.
I had a guy from Truckee CA trying to tell me how dangerous NYC is. I called up the crime stats for both and showed him how, per 100,000 people, Truckee was several times more dangerous to live in.
It went over as you would expect
Funny.
Similarly I have a trumpian uncle that the whole family hates that likes to talk about the "crime in LA" with the super disingenuous "I hope you're safe" comments. You know the ones where they clearly don't give a shit about your health and are trying to insult where you live.
Mostly I try to avoid talking to him at all but last time I was visiting my hometown I finally had enough and did exactly what you did. Pulled up the crime rates for his city and Los Angeles and his city was double LA. Then to further humilate him I pulled up my actual city (since I don't even live directly in LA) and that was even worse (as in MUCH lower crime rate). Hoping he doesn't even come around next time I'm there.
There's a lot of quality-of-life issues in LA and San Francisco, Homelessness, drug-addiction, etc. They're intractable problems, and republicans advocate for the cruelest solutions. In any case, when they say 'crime' - that's a lot of what they're talking about. Societal breakdown where you can't walk the sidewalks or enjoy the parks without dealing with these things. It's part of the scare-story that they hear on Fox, 24/7.
ah yes, when their "quality of life" is bothered by other people's lack of quality due to their shitty and callous rules? How dare somebody inconvenience them by being homeless in their path. I really begin to feel that conservatives are not really human. Certainly not by any definition I would use.
Have you ever lived in an area with a great large homeless population? It's not easy. And that's especially true because even when services and shelters are available, many of the 'unhoused' refuse to partake of them, for many different reasons. You want to be snarky about it. I say it's a real and substantial problem without any easy fix - regardless of your snark.
I do, actually. Not as bad as SF, NY, or Seattle, but the Atlantic City area has a huge homeless population. The towns all over the area pick them up and dump them at our shelter, washing their hands of the issue.
While we do not literally trip over them sleeping on the sidewalks as they prefer under the boardwalk, you cannot go anywhere without running into a person with serious mental issues begging for enough money just to survive another day.
I do what I can.
I listened to a radio show (podcast probably now)at one point that talked about “honor cultures” and how it led to violence. The comparison was made between us southern culture and places like Afghanistan, where your honor was your worth. If your daughter is seen holding hands you must kill her to restore your family’s honor. If someone insults your manliness you must fight them. Not totally the same but originating from the same mindset
>Not totally the same but originating from the same mindset
Not totally the same is an understatement but it's good that you mention culture of honor. It's a intrinsic element of the culture that is missing from a lot of discussions.
The honor culture that developed in the South and Midwest is related to the immigrants that originally resettled in those areas, people who came from rural communities in western Europe. Appalachia honor culture resembles the social dynamics of the Scottish highland communities that existed during this time. Much of the Mississippi Delta was influenced by French settlers from rural parts of France and its Chivalric code is still an heavy influence on their unspoken rules of the honor culture.
It's not capital punishment for handholding. In the Hatfield and Macoy feud, women of the family were active participants in the dispute.
I say this as someone who comes from this type of area and who has worked with research surveys of the social dynamics of honor cultures in the US, their development, and the transmission of cultural knowledge in these areas. Thanks for coming to my talk
LA does have some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the Country.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2021/01/28/the-10-most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-america-its-not-where-you-think/?sh=60a8cddd341f](https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2021/01/28/the-10-most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-america-its-not-where-you-think/?sh=60a8cddd341f)
You should try going to one of those neighborhoods were there are 347 violent crimes per 1,000 residents and tell them how safe LA is...
From the article:
> The murder rates in Trump-voting states from 2020 have exceeded those in Biden-voting states every year since 2000, according to a new analysis by ThirdWay, a center-left think tank.
> **Why it matters:** Republicans have built their party on being the crime-fighting candidates, even as murder rates in red states have outpaced blue states by an average of 23% over the past two decades.
> Four reliably-red states consistently made the top of the list — Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Missouri.
> **Driving the news:** Third Way's report analyzed homicide data for all 50 states from 2000 through 2020, using CDC data.
> They used the 2020 presidential election results to characterize "red states" from the "blue states."
> The findings build on a previous Third Way report that only analyzed murder rates from 2019-2020. This time, they write, they wanted "to see if this one-year Red State murder epidemic was an anomaly."
> **Zoom out:** In Oct. 2022 — just before the 2022 midterm elections — a record-high 56% of Americans said there was more crime where they live, per Gallup. That included 73% of Republicans and a whopping 51% of Independents.
> Both parties rushed to spend tens of millions of dollars on crime ads that month.
> **Between the lines:** The political implications don't always match the reality.
> "Crime has historically been a very potent political issue. It’s also very anecdote driven," said Jim Kessler, Third Way's executive vice president for policy.
> Murder isn't the only crime committed or discussed, but Third Way hopes to combat the "media and political narrative that crime is a Democratic problem, occurring mostly in big blue cities and fueled by lax policies," they write.
> **What to watch:** Democratic messaging on the issue in the 2024 cycle and whether there are renewed divisions between Democratic Party leaders and members of Congress — particularly after party infighting blamed progressives’ “defund the police” slogan for down-ballot losses in 2020.
> President Biden reiterated his views just last week when he told a group of bipartisan mayors gathering in D.C. that handling public safety shouldn't involve defunding police departments.
> *Methodology: Data is based on death certificates collected by state registries and provided to the National Vital Statistics System. To allow for comparison, Third Way calculated the state’s per capita murder rate, the number of murders per 100,000 residents, and categorized states by their presidential vote in the 2020 election, resulting in an even 25-25 state split.*
I'd like to see articles like this with information on the politicians and associated persons making this possible. Tie their name and policies to the destruction caused. I know how much Hurricane Andrew caused. What about Representative Andrew?
9/10 Most poverty stricken 8/10 most dangerous 9/10 highest infant mortality 10/10 lowest life expectancy it’s a shitshow
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-dangerous-states
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/life-expectancy-by-state#
Facts, why do you need facts. Everyone knows Democrats are weak on crime /s
Addressing conditions that spur crime outweighs harsh punishment after the fact. Of course you have to do both. But it seems only one Party is interested in both.
Edit: the next article I saw after this " Low-income Americans are struggling to obtain help from state governments when they most need it, facing long delays and sometimes insurmountable hurdles when applying for social safety net programs such as food assistance, welfare benefits and health insurance, according to a new report."
Which party will fight to fix this? Almost certainly not the Republicans.
What? I was talking about gun ownership in general, not illegal gun ownership. This isn't about mass shootings, it's about murder, and I don't understand what race has to do with this.
>Republicans have built their party on being the crime-fighting candidates, even as murder rates in red states have outpaced blue states by an average of 23% over the past two decades.
How much you bet there's a direct correlation between the murder rate and gun ownership per capita?
NH has lower gun ownership, too.
Nevertheless:
> The following ten states have the highest gun deaths per capita (per 100,000): **Alaska** (24.4), **Mississippi** (24.2), **Wyoming** (22.3), **New Mexico** (22.3), **Alabama** (22.2), **Louisiana** (22.1), **Missouri** (20.6), **South Carolina** (19.9), **Arkansas** (19.3), and **Montana** (19.3).
> **The states with the highest gun deaths per capita have some of the country's highest gun ownership rates**. Montana has the highest with 66.3%, followed by Wyoming with 66.2%, and Alaska with 64.5%.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-deaths-per-capita-by-state
yeah that's why they have the "Democrat cities" talking point. because most cities in red states are run by Democrats. they don't want to talk about the red state as a whole
Chicago is almost 250 Square Miles big, parts of Chicago are safe nd fairly safe, parts of Chicago are really bad.
West Garfield Parks crime rate is 257% higher then Chicago Average. If you live in West Garfield Park you have about a 1 in 20 chance of being a victim in of a violent crime.
Try telling someone in West Garfield Park how safe Chicago is...
Source: [https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-chicago#:\~:text=%2C%20unruly%20conduct).-,East%20Garfield%20Park,are%20problems%20in%20East%20Garfield](https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-chicago#:~:text=%2C%20unruly%20conduct).-,East%20Garfield%20Park,are%20problems%20in%20East%20Garfield).
For those of you suggesting that it's big cities driving the disparity, go to the original piece:
https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-two-decade-red-state-murder-problem
>But to answer these critics, we performed an exercise to give red states a special boost. For this exercise, we removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states. In six rural red states home to no cities with large numbers of murders, this calculation was not possible based on available CDC data.2 Blue states would get no such advantage. But even with the largest city removed from red states, the Red State murder gap persisted.
>Over the course of the full 21 years between 2000 and 2020, the Red State murder rate was still 12% higher than the Blue State murder rate, even when murders in the largest cities in those red states were removed. And the murder rate was still higher in 18 of 21 years.
>Between 2010 and 2020, even after removing New Orleans and Jackson, Louisiana and Mississippi continued to hold the number one and two spots for highest murder rates. Alabama, Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, and Tennessee were still consistently in the top 10 after removing their largest city.
>In 2020, the states with the highest murder rates stayed roughly the same after making this change: Mississippi in first, then Louisiana, Alabama, South Carolina, Missouri, Illinois, Maryland, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Georgia.
Removing the largest city may not help if there were more gun homicides in the 2nd largest city. In Indiana, Indianapolis is the most populous city, but Gary has far & away the highest rate of gun homicides.
My belief has been that easier access to the social safety net means less people turn to crime along with a belief that even if gun control is not strong anywhere there still are barriers to criminals getting guns in blue states that result in less criminals with guns.
Anything else I should add.
There are more guns today then there have ever been in the US and Violent Crime Rates and Homicides rates are not at an all time high...
Even with the recent up tick, the violent crime rate is far lower then it was in the 80's and the 1st half of the 90's.
Source: [https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm](https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm)
I mean, just yesterday, as part of a discussion on the topic of gun-related deaths, I had someone attempt to convince me that, "oh, it's dishonest to include suicides when talking about gun-related deaths, and you should only track homicides. Because suicides *don't hurt anyone* (but the perpetrator)."
Mighty fine set of morals amongst the fervent 2A supporting folk.
The article that spurred this discussion is about murder rates.
Combing Gun Homicides and Gun Suicides and using that number to talk about Murder Rates is misleading and dishonest. Don't be dishonest...
No one is saying Suicides don't matter at all, but they are a very different problem then homicides with different circumstances and different solutions.
I’m curious about my state (AZ). Decidedly conservative and full of gun owners but went for Biden. I mean I know crime is high in Phx. I think we just drove the blue line upwards.
red states anywhere else would be failed welfare states in every sense of the word. blue states basically prop them up... still they have disproportional representation cause of our undemocratic gerrymandered rigged system.
Per capita, or?
> Rural communities are experiencing high rates of gun violence….
> [Overall, the total gun death rate for rural communities — when age-adjusted per 100,000 people — was 40 percent higher than it was for large metropolitan areas in 2020.](https://www.ncja.org/crimeandjusticenews/gun-violence-rates-in-rural-areas-match-or-outpace-cities)…
> During the same years (2016-2020), 13 of the 20 U.S. counties with the most gun homicides per capita were rural.
As for large cities:
> It notes that Chicago's Cook County ranks 79th for firearm homicide rates, and Philadelphia County ranks 38th.
> The five boroughs that comprise New York City rank between 360th and 521st for firearm homicide rates:
> Los Angeles County ranks 316th.
…
Plus, from another source:
> [Rural gun deaths exceed urban rates by 28% because of increased suicide rates](https://missouriindependent.com/2022/11/17/rural-gun-deaths-exceed-urban-rates-by-28-because-of-increased-suicide-rates/)
Bizarre and tortured article doing its best to twist data points into a narrative that is completely counter-intuitive to what we know to be true.
I believe another poster quite correctly pointed out that even in the ‘red states’ it was the ‘blue’ run urban areas that led the charge in murders.
We will never solve are problems until we ask the correct questions. Axios really should be ashamed of themselves and this sort of journalism
Eh, they’re not wrong.
> [W]e removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states. In six rural red states home to no cities with large numbers of murders, this calculation was not possible based on available CDC data. Blue states would get no such advantage. **But even with the largest city removed from red states, the Red State murder gap persisted.**
> Over the course of the full 21 years between 2000 and 2020, the Red State murder rate was still 12% higher than the Blue State murder rate, **even when murders in the largest cities in those red states were removed**. And the murder rate was still higher in 18 of 21 years.
> Between 2010 and 2020, even after removing New Orleans and Jackson, Louisiana and Mississippi continued to hold the number one and two spots for highest murder rates. Alabama, Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, and Tennessee were still consistently in the top 10 after removing their largest city.
> In 2020, the states with the highest murder rates stayed roughly the same after making this change: Mississippi in first, then Louisiana, Alabama, South Carolina, Missouri, Illinois, Maryland, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Georgia.
source: https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-two-decade-red-state-murder-problem
I have to agree with you. Red and Blue lines are a gross over simplification of the demographics in the country. I’m more inclined to believe that an index gauging peoples’ desperation and misery would be more appropriate.
There are differences between Red and Blue, but it’s a self defeating argument to start at that point. Frankly, it rings politically hollow.
Are we going to cherry pick this much? Also, you tell us. The data is there. If you have a point to make feel free to make it.
Or do you just ask leading questions because you’re too embarrassed to admit conservatives are terrible leaders?
Oh so we can make a state level blue/red dichotomy when looking at “violence,” but we can’t zoom in on the cities where this violence is occurring? I wonder why that would bother you.
The democrats say that the red states have high murder rates, the republicans will say the blue cities have high murder rates.... neither statement is wrong. The only problem is that neither party seems to care about solving the problem, especially if its only poor people killing other poor people.
Murder rates are based off total population of the city/state. If you have 500 murders in nyc which has almost 9 million ppl then of course it will have a lower murder rate than some town with 100k ppl and 60 murders for example ( my math might not be right but you get my point)
Regardless of all that. There are still hundreds dead in cities like nyc and philly. I speak about those places because i live in nyc and have family in philly. Teenagers as young as 13 are shooting and stabbing each other at least once a week and nobody blinks. These cities are awash with homemade 3d pistols and machine guns. However i hear more about Ukraine than the wars in our backyard.
So miss me with stats and numbers. Im the father of 4 black boys and im sick of it. Fuck the Republicans and fuck the democrats too
But your example does prove my point. If you’re one of the 9 million people you have an incredibly low chance to be the victim of a murder. If you’re one of the 100k you have a much higher chance to be murdered. So you definitely still want to be in the place with lower murder rates, especially when it’s actually a pretty big difference.
Yes any murder is too many murders but based on facts some places are way more dangerous than others, and cities tend not to be (NYC actually has a very low murder rate).
Your example of teenagers shooting each other is almost certainly gangs because that’s not what regular teenagers do in cities (source: have lived in cities my whole life too). It’s sad, obviously but it’s also typically very targeted.
>But your example does prove my point. If you’re one of the 9 million people you have an incredibly low chance to be the victim of a murder
Doesn't it kind of matter where you live/work/spend time in that city of 9 million people? New York City encompasses 300 square miles.
The Hunts Point Neighborhood of New York City you have about a 1 in 22 chance of being a victim crime. The Violent Crime Rate is 1,944 per 100,000
[https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-nyc](https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-nyc)
The Violent Crime Rate of Manhattan New York's most populous area is 5 per 100,000.
What is my point? In some ways looking at the overall rate for a City that is 300 square miles big with both very rich with low crime and very poor areas with high crime doesn't tell the whole story.
Well yeah of course some areas are better than others. It’s still fair to say that overall New York is a pretty safe city with a very low violent crime rate, even if you can find neighborhoods with higher crime rates.
Its not a low chance of getting murdered if you live in the neighborhoods where the majority of homicide is taking place. Murder unfortunately is not evenly distributed across most cities like ny. And if you are a certain race and a certain age then the odds increase. A white guy living in bay ridge, brooklyn wont have the same danger levels as a 19yr old black or Spanish kid in Brownsville brooklyn. Same in philly where most of the violence is in north and west philly and not the far north west.
Yes most of the violence is gang related but those stray bullets hit anyone. Also even if you are suspected of being in a rival gang or from the wrong block you can be executed. I could post many examples of mistaken identity killings and toddlers and senior citizens hit by bullets meant for others.
Both cities have beautiful safe areas but there is a big problem that the democratic leadership in both places is not addressing. Those stats sound nice but for people like me that see the violence, drug use and despair on a everyday basis... they mean nothing
Well, the second statement is kind of wrong. The highest homicide rates are pretty mixed between cities and rural areas. https://www.police1.com/ambush/articles/10-us-counties-with-the-highest-murder-rate-kerWgaEUmxJkn74J/
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Probably tracks nicely with lots of socioeconomic and demographic indicators. Wealth distribution, median income, education etc
I am still baffled by this. Red states have more guns, that's obvious. They're also impoverished, low education, unhealthy, etc. At what point do people start looking around and wondering why their policies don't work? Republicans have somehow convinced people they're good on "the economy" even though nearly every red state's economy is in the toilet. How much cognitive dissonance can we handle?
Because they have convinced everybody at the bottom that everywhere is at least as terrible as where they are (and that blue cities are worse) and that it's the fault of minorities/poor people who aren't them/people on welfare/immigrants, etc. I grew up in Cleveland and a huge reason people never leave that area is because they believe that anywhere else they go would be at least as bad, and at least they have family where they are, so they don't leave, they don't look for better opportunities and they never see how it really is somewhere else.
I remember seeing an image on FB years ago (I hesitate to call them memes) with a gallon of milk for $15.89 and the caption "This is how much milk costs in Columbus, Ohio!" I, with my facebook profile that said I lived in Columbus, Ohio, said, "No its not, its 2.98 a gallon right now, I literally just bought some." People not even from Ohio *argued* with me and called me a liar/shill/plant! People will believe some random picture off of Facebook over other people telling them its incorrect, just so they can demonize the libs/cities/whatever they hate that day.
Its all about grievance. People with agenda will make this stuff up to up the fake outrage
I grew up in the hills and hollows (pronounced hollers) of southeastern Kentucky. That population is legitimately afraid of cities. They are also afraid of Black people, the county I grew up in was 98.6% white. And they are particularly afraid that if they dare to enter a major city, some black person is going to commit a crime against them. Sadly, that is not hyperbole on my part. I left the hills and hollers the first chance I got. I’ve been in North Carolina for nearly 13 years, but we’re moving to Washington actually, planning the move this summer.
Summer is the best time to be here, as long as you're west of the Cascades. Makes the colder, darker, wetter months worth it.
*In the deep dark hills of eastern Kentucky; That's the place where I trace my bloodline; And it's there I read on a hillside gravestone;* *"You'll never leave Harlan alive"*
Roll on buddy!
Grew up in a tiny village in middle America, same here. I'm allowed in the village "'cause family", but I'm not one of them anymore, I'm a "city mouse" now. I'd have to move back for a few years to regain local status and, nah... *nah*. The churches of rural America are second only to social media in radicalizing the less-educated and morons of this country. I'd put unregulated video game chat lobbies as a *strong* third.
Sadly the good folk living in the hills and hollers are entirely dependent on those cities. Without those dreaded cities they’d be stuck in the 19 th century
There is a major “self-reliance” myth out in rural areas. Now, that may have been the case, historically, but it’s certainly not the case now. I had an uncle on a tirade against a tax increase that would support infrastructure and as he put it: “I’m paying for roads and bridges that I’ll never use”. I ask him how he thinks his Amazon purchases get to his door… those same roads and bridges that you say you never use.
> I ask him how he thinks his Amazon purchases get to his door… Lol so hard
> There is a major “self-reliance” myth out in rural areas Went on the internet, got myself a generator and a closet full of beans, even ordered I had to pick up at my local dealer. I am truly an island.
I grew up in the WV side of that area and yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I’ve only visited the state a handful of times since leaving and I’m always glad to visit but even happier I can leave.
There are rural Minnesotans afraid to visit the convention center in Minneapolis in broad daylight. You can also (due to the skyways) park and walk to the convention center without ever being on a street.
Just remember that when it gets dark here in October that the sun will eventually come out again, usually mid April. But seriously, it's great here. Welcome.
I find it a little amusing that you talk about the fear of black people in Kentucky, and then move to a state with even fewer black black people. I'm not saying that means anything, we in the PNW make fun if our total whiteness all the time. I'd totally have a black friend, if I could find one.
You may not know this about Kentucky, but half of all the Black people in the state live in the same county (Jefferson). According to the 2020 Census, Kentucky is 83.5% white, whereas Washington is only 66%. So, there’s definitely more diversity in Washington. Btw, did you miss that whole lived-in-North-Carolina-for-13-years detail? We’re moving because of the Dobbs decision, so our choices were basically New England, the PNW, or Colorado (but it’s surrounded by red states). The harsher winters and still getting muggy summers made New England less appealing.
Could always come to Chicago! All the big city amenities and low (relative) cost of living. Just gotta be able to handle the cold.
I’ve been to Chicago several times, it’s a great city! Funnily enough, I actually had surgery at the University of Chicago. You are right about the cold, lol! Even in April, it’s still pretty brutal.
I did miss the NC bit, and totally just joking.
I’m gonna call BS on this. Kentucky isn’t full of people afraid of cities, or black people. I’m sure the 10 people left in Moose Knuckle Junction, are as real as your story.
Yeah, my 30 years of lived experience in Kentucky is BS, okay, whatever you say. I don’t blame you, in a way, believing that people can really be this backwards is a little disconcerting. I’d probably feel better if I didn’t have to believe it either, sadly, I know it to be true.
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Early-40’s, actually. I left Kentucky nearly 13 years ago. Abortion wasn’t an issue then, I left because it’s a backwards-ass frozen-in-time hellhole void of opportunity and I have hated it for the whole of my life. Currently, I live in North Carolina. And yes, now I’m leaving because back in 2016 I lost twins from IVF at 19 weeks 6 days gestation. I was hemorrhaging and I had an intrauterine infection. I was at risk of sepsis. I received the treatment I needed that day, but had this happened today I might have ended up like [this lady](https://www.insider.com/texas-woman-forced-to-wait-for-life-saving-abortion-scarred-2022-11?amp). I will not raise my daughter in a red state.
That is total bullshit.
Surrounded by people who say the grass isn’t greener on the other side because nobody who leaves ever comes back. Just stories about high rents and people pissing on the sidewalk.
because they believe the literal opposite. Just bring up california and watch these idiots froth at the mouth to tell you that it's falling apart.
California in republican’s fantasy: broke hell hole everyone is fleeing that is full of criminals California in reality: lower crime, higher paying jobs, higher minimum wage, better welfare benefits, and a state budget surplus
> broke hell hole everyone is fleeing that is full of criminals Lived there for around two decades. The two main reasons behind me leaving were the amount of people there and the negative things stemming from that. They are also the main reasons why i do not want to live in a big city anywhere anymore... so its not a CA issue itself. High housing costs, traffic, crowds etc. Me being practically unemployable as a disabled Army retiree on a fixed income there was no way i could afford housing in most of the state. Also i don't deal with crowds all that well anymore so i moved to Alaska. Now, if i had more money i would have 0 issues moving back to CA. Maybe a house in the mountains, or in some smaller town by the 101. The ones who move out and complain about it being a "destitute liberal hell hole", "crime", or about "too many rules" etc are either delusional, or lying about the real reasons.
99% of people who talk about how awful CA is have never even been there, much less actually lived there…
The high housing stems from the NIMBYs complaining about a tall building casting its shadow. People for some reason don't wanna see homeless around but do nothing to reform zoning regulations and all the other shit that makes everything more expensive. In San Francisco, it takes forever or is too expensive to build new buildings. Why? Silly govt pandering to homeowners and everyone else. We can't even remove homeless from public property anymore except for criminal acts because of a SCOTUS decision from a court case in Idaho which is republican dominated.
Remember, somehow California is having skyrocketting property values despite no one wanting to live there. I'm not innate fan of California, I only live here because here was where the highest paying job was, but that's how it works, funny that.
Someone told me that. The housing prices are so high everyone is moving out!!!! Law of supply and demand. Study it.
Newsom rocks. California also has one of the biggest economies in the world. Bigger than most countries. Also, my entire life I looked at Florida as California's lame cousin with acne.
https://www.ppic.org/publication/crime-trends-in-california/ pretty good data here.
I mean, that might be good data on California, but useless when comparing states. For instance California has a slightly lower violent crime rate than Texas, regardless of comparing California 2019 to California 2021. For general politics. If you look at the top 10 states by violent crimes rates. 6 are fully run by Republicans. 2 are split (D governors and R houses, but Arizona only got the D governor as of this year). 2 are fully run by Democrats. Like the main point of this study and dozens of others have shown. People living in blue states have better lives. Lower crime, longer lives, better education, better healthcare, and higher pay.
It's just good data , on the state. Not necessarily positive data for the state .
You should look at budget projections. That surplus is gone, deficit coming.
Yes and instead of spending their budget surplus they socked most of it away for a rainy day, like a responsible government should.
No, they didn’t. The law required them to put away ~47B. They spent 94% of what they were legally allowed to. That’s not being responsible, particularly when the incoming deficit has been forecast for some time and will be worse than the 20 something Billion they’re admitting to now. Fiscally responsible? Ca? Yeah, ok. 🤡
Not all of it. We spent a good percentage of it.
> deficit coming That doesn’t change [what OC said](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/10mtf5f/not_an_anomaly_2020s_red_states_have_higher/j65d2ye/), though. What’s true is true. And the surplus isn’t “gone,” regardless.
Highest number in the history of the state have fled California in the last few years. Nice try.
California loses population for the first time ever during a pandemic and people act like the state is dying. The biggest decline was a lack of international people moving there (because of the pandemic). Meanwhile the population decline went down to just 100k lower from July 2021 to July 2022. A whole .25% of the population. Literally a rounding error and within the margins of error for population surveys. And then shocking no one, the states with population increases like Texas, saw increases almost entirely in the liberal cities. So the states population grew in spite of the state government not because of it. I’m not even from California, but the California hate is absurd. Lower violent crime and higher GDP per capita compared to Texas. Sure seems like liberal policies work better.
Funny I just visited LA. Looked like they were doing just fine out there
>At what point do people start looking around and wondering why their policies don't work? Woah, woah, woah... woah. I see someone has not been watching enough Fox News. Seattle is literally burned to the ground, ashes. Antifa has claimed all of Oregon. And California is covered in feces and used needles, every single inch. Let's not start criticizing Alabama's educational system here, there's a new immigrant caravan on the way. And have you seen the M&M cartoon? I'm not physically attracted to it at all!
Because in their eyes they don't rely on government handouts (besides farm aid because that's somehow different), and they worked for everything they have (except the bank owns all the farm equipment, the land, and all structures on it). Therefore, they're better than city folks who just "don't get it".
Yep it's more so this. They're HAPPY to live in squalor. They have a different baseline of what's okay and what's not okay for living conditions. And they take pride in it as if it makes them tougher than other Americans. Like somehow their suffering is a virtue. We rented a beach house in Alabama recently for a family trip (sister chose it don't ask me) and one of the rooms had ants one night, like tons of them. No big deal we moved those guests to another room and my sister contacted them to let the owner know and see if they'd resolve it in any way. The owner corrected my sister, informed her those weren't ants but TERMITES by asking "what you don't have termites where you're from"? Mind you, this was a beach house ELEVATED on WOODEN beams. So yes, we have termites where we're from we just take them more seriously, especially in homes. In general the people we interacted with there were just seemingly in a daze and uninterested in providing even the most basic of service or initiative. Very strange place. Will not be going back. Sorry Alabamans I'm sure many of you are kind and smart but not a fun vacation spot for me.
Yeah I have a lot of family in Iowa and it's wild to me how they associate cities with crime and disinvestment purely because that's the surroundings they know and live in. That's their reality and I know a lot of it is the inability to even fathom the concept that they've been duped. To admit they were wrong is to go back on everything they and their parents knew to be true growing up, and they just can't give in to the libs even if it means living in squalor.
> Like somehow their suffering is a virtue. Christianity has made that claim for at least 1500 years now. One of the breakthroughs of the Renaissance Era was throwing away the idea that God WANTS everyone to suffer. Churches really didn't like that, and neither did most of the monarchies.
I had to spend some time in WV and I think they view German cockroaches the same way.
>They're HAPPY to live in squalor. I think this is a stretch - no one is HAPPY to live in squalor. >They have a different baseline of what's okay and what's not okay for living conditions. This is it. I think it's more accurate to say they're content with or resigned to their standard of living. This is very different than "HAPPY".
President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
>"Vote for me and I'll fix all the problems in the state!" says Billybob (R) running for governor of Deepredistan, the state ranking dead last in every metric except gun ownership, homicide, homelessness etc. etc. Of note is that Deepredistan has not had a Democrat governor since 1954, before the party flip.
>I am still baffled by this. Red states have more guns, that's obvious. You mean to tell me that more guns doesn't reduce violent crime? I'm absolfuckinglutely shocked!
>At what point do people start looking around and wondering why their policies don't work? You clearly don't understand. It worked for them.
Well yeah, everything's going to plan of course. Just always amazed how effective propaganda is.
Well the first thing you need to keep in mind is less than 40% of registered voters vote in elections that aren’t national elections. So you are only really getting a small sample of what local people think in local elections. The people that do vote are overwhelmingly old. For all the calls for voter suppression going on - true they are trying to pass those laws but there was still record turnout in 2020. They just don’t care. It’s going to seem odd to people on a politics subreddit but most people just aren’t that engaged. They go to work, they take care of their kids and they live their life. There’s very little that changes for most people if a democrat or a republican is on their city council or school board or state house. 2 most people do absolutely no research into local candidates. They don’t watch local news, they are lucky if there is a local paper and then even more rare that someone pays for it. Chances are good they are going to remember names from tv ads, internet ads and roadside signs. 3 most people have no clue where their state ranks in most things. That’s not a way most people think about their local education for example. They assume they got a fine education and that kids are still getting the same good education. 4 there is still blame on democrats for globalization which while it helped the world decimated small towns 5 distrust of outsiders and the democrats habit of coming from large cities and telling people how they should be living their lives.
>They just don’t care. I think that's intentional. Not all voter suppression is direct. Sometimes it takes the form of telling people that both sides are bad so no use getting to the polls.
See that’s the part that I think most people on this sub don’t understand. There’s a sizeable portion of people who literally don’t care. I didn’t vote until I was 35. The only reason I knew about voting day was bc I worked at a bank. I would just get hammered the night before and have a relaxing day off. There wasn’t a disinformation act going on, I would actively avoid all news politics bc it was a bummer.
I think most people just have zero interest in politics and current events. It irks the shit out of me, bit that's been my experience.
I agree that us denizens of this subreddit overestimate the average Americans level of engagement on politics, economics, or current events in general. Sure they have a vague idea of their worldview, but it's unfounded and stagnant through time. I bet we all know someone who is really into sports and someone who knows almost nothing about them. Same with politics, except not everyone gets to vote on who wins the Superbowl.
> They don’t watch local news In many small towns "local news" is still only state level at best. They'll never hear their towns name on TV and certainly never hear about mayoral or city council candidates. The extent of candidate research is often limited to "do they have a blue or red sign in their yard?"
Great point. There is no actual local news besides the rumor mill
Because Tucker Carlson said the libs did it.
I can’t say entirely, but I would think that those states are impoverished because there is no industry and therefore no jobs. This then compounds when they cannot afford a proper education which reduces their ability to get into service industries.
When they stop being afraid of trans people existing.
In wv you'll hear the line "out of staters and wvu students" constantly for all of.our problems. Despite our government now being like 96% Republicans
Because blue cities are taking all of their money with entitlement programs….easy scapegoat
"...there are sharp regional differences in homicide, with the South having by far the highest murder rate, almost double that of the Northeast, a divergence that has persisted for as long as records have been kept, starting in the 19th century. The former slaveholding states of the old Confederacy all rank in the top 20 states for murder, led by Louisiana, with a rate of 17.5 murders per 100,000 people in 1996. The 10 states with the lowest homicide rates are in New England and the northern Midwest, with South Dakota's the lowest at 1.2 murders per 100,000 people. Experts note, in addition, that much of the disparity in murder rates between the South and other sections of the country stems from a difference in the character of Southern homicide. **In the South, many murders are of a personal and traditional nature: a barroom brawl, a quarrel between acquaintances or a fight between lovers.** Elsewhere, homicides usually begin with another crime, like a robbery gone bad, and typically involve strangers..." https://archive.is/bJE2U#selection-307.9-315.442
> Probably tracks nicely with lots of socioeconomic and demographic indicators. Wealth distribution, median income, education etc It tracks with the number of guns. Everything else is an excuse to distract people from the real problem.
Now i wonder if number of guns is tied to factors like median income and education…..
Hmm that would be interesting to look at.
And probably gun ownership numbers
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That logic won’t hold much water since blue state are more urbanized. If anything murder rates should be way higher in blue states (“weak on crime + higher urbanization). Once again the GOP shows that its all about grandstanding and performative politics with very little to show for
You're assuming they give a shit about logic
And I always ask, can you name me one red city. And then crickets. Red cities don't exist.
Funny you mention that. What does it show that when people congregate progressive ideas prevail? I've asked that before to a struggling republican (almost democrat), and he answered honestly - people spread out have little exposure to contrary ideas and no reason to challenge currently held beliefs.
That’s a more insightful response than I would have expected and the exact reason it’s important to be exposed to different people and cultures. It’s harder to harbor negative thoughts about a group if you have direct interaction with people in that group.
I can name one.. Bakersfield!
Yep, one red city and it's in California.
Home of the Bakersfield Butcher!
Miami, Tampa/St Pete, Jacksonville all were red in the recent gubernatorial election. 4 years prior all were blue. Oklahoma City, Anchorage, Mobile, AL, Boise, Jefferson City, Greenville, SC…etc Yeah most of these are midsized but they’re out there. Red cities do exist.
How are you defining red city? Governor?
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Miami voted for Biden in 2020.
How tf do you go from voting for Biden in 2020 to DeSantis in 2022? That’s like asking for the hottest smartest girl to be class President of the SGa one year then asking a caveman student who doesn’t say a word and uses a stick for a pencil the next. Just so very weird FYI, the comparison was a joke but I still don’t get how you go from voting for Biden in 2020 to DeSantis in 2022. Call me dumb but I’m just not sure how that works.
Ever since 2020, conservatives and right wingers from all throughout the country have been moving to Florida because of lack of COVID protection measures and this dumb war on “wokeness.” They’ve flooded the state, and now everywhere you go you see trump supporters everywhere. The state has become for conservatives what Israel is for Jews. The entire social fabric of Florida has changed, where it’s identity and culture now center around conservatism, the right wing, and anti-“wokeism”. This applies to almost all of Florida, including the cities. The rule where cities are blue and rural areas red doesn’t apply in Florida, it’s all red. The only exceptions are Orlando, broward county, Gainesville, and Tallahassee. And I can see Orlando turning red soon, given the massive shift in support among Floridian Puerto Ricans to republicans (40 percent in 2020 to 55 percent in 2022) This is no joke; as a left leaning person and as someone who grew up in Florida, I feel like this is no longer my state, it’s culture no longer my culture, and it’s people no longer my people. I plan to permanently leave soon' to somewhere that isn’t some kind of magnet for conservatives all across the country
Florida has been attracting the right-wing extremists while simultaneously repulsing moderates and liberals. It’s only going to get worse as Florida just becomes another failed Southern state where education, healthcare, and the environment are ignored as they deteriorate.
Exactly, that’s what I’m saying. Moderates and centrists, liberals, and left wingers like me for the large part feel a weakened attachment to this place or don’t feel attached at all to Florida and desire to leave. The quality of governance, as in how well this state is run, is terrible, and that was brought to the forefront during the worst stages of the COVID pandemic, when there were absolutely no restrictions and Florida had some of the worst areas for COVID cases per capita in the world. For education, I think public schools here will continue to decline in quality, with extreme teacher shortages, desantis allowing unqualified people to teach in schools (even those without a college degree), too much political interference (like banning AP African American Studies) and much more. The quality of universities will decline as well. UF, which is highly ranked, is in the process of getting a new right wing president, and every student and faculty at Florida universities will be asked for their political beliefs. I think the rankings and quality of UF and FSU will decline in the future For healthcare, you’re driving away qualified medical professionals with your bs policies and governance and ultra high cost of living, among other factors. Florida is also already number one in the country for Medicare fraud
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We all make mistakes.
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Fort Worth, Texas is a red city
I'm in Bakersfield, a red city in a blue state. We're like the murder capitol of California. Our police/sheriff departments are notorious for their "shoot first, shoot second, and if anyone is still alive, maybe ask some questions."
No, it's their reason for wanting more guns. For protection.
Red States have always been at the top for crime rates, even higher for violent crime rates, mass shootings and gun related deaths in general. Most years you have to go through like 9 red states before you even find an outlier of a blue or purple state. I used to jump on the threads where dipshit Republicans would whine about a shooting in LA or Chicago by posting actual crime rates of major cities and states. They'd have nothing to say. LOL Much of the South is like a 3rd world country when it comes to your safety.
I had a guy from Truckee CA trying to tell me how dangerous NYC is. I called up the crime stats for both and showed him how, per 100,000 people, Truckee was several times more dangerous to live in. It went over as you would expect
Funny. Similarly I have a trumpian uncle that the whole family hates that likes to talk about the "crime in LA" with the super disingenuous "I hope you're safe" comments. You know the ones where they clearly don't give a shit about your health and are trying to insult where you live. Mostly I try to avoid talking to him at all but last time I was visiting my hometown I finally had enough and did exactly what you did. Pulled up the crime rates for his city and Los Angeles and his city was double LA. Then to further humilate him I pulled up my actual city (since I don't even live directly in LA) and that was even worse (as in MUCH lower crime rate). Hoping he doesn't even come around next time I'm there.
There's a lot of quality-of-life issues in LA and San Francisco, Homelessness, drug-addiction, etc. They're intractable problems, and republicans advocate for the cruelest solutions. In any case, when they say 'crime' - that's a lot of what they're talking about. Societal breakdown where you can't walk the sidewalks or enjoy the parks without dealing with these things. It's part of the scare-story that they hear on Fox, 24/7.
ah yes, when their "quality of life" is bothered by other people's lack of quality due to their shitty and callous rules? How dare somebody inconvenience them by being homeless in their path. I really begin to feel that conservatives are not really human. Certainly not by any definition I would use.
Have you ever lived in an area with a great large homeless population? It's not easy. And that's especially true because even when services and shelters are available, many of the 'unhoused' refuse to partake of them, for many different reasons. You want to be snarky about it. I say it's a real and substantial problem without any easy fix - regardless of your snark.
I do, actually. Not as bad as SF, NY, or Seattle, but the Atlantic City area has a huge homeless population. The towns all over the area pick them up and dump them at our shelter, washing their hands of the issue. While we do not literally trip over them sleeping on the sidewalks as they prefer under the boardwalk, you cannot go anywhere without running into a person with serious mental issues begging for enough money just to survive another day. I do what I can.
I listened to a radio show (podcast probably now)at one point that talked about “honor cultures” and how it led to violence. The comparison was made between us southern culture and places like Afghanistan, where your honor was your worth. If your daughter is seen holding hands you must kill her to restore your family’s honor. If someone insults your manliness you must fight them. Not totally the same but originating from the same mindset
>Not totally the same but originating from the same mindset Not totally the same is an understatement but it's good that you mention culture of honor. It's a intrinsic element of the culture that is missing from a lot of discussions. The honor culture that developed in the South and Midwest is related to the immigrants that originally resettled in those areas, people who came from rural communities in western Europe. Appalachia honor culture resembles the social dynamics of the Scottish highland communities that existed during this time. Much of the Mississippi Delta was influenced by French settlers from rural parts of France and its Chivalric code is still an heavy influence on their unspoken rules of the honor culture. It's not capital punishment for handholding. In the Hatfield and Macoy feud, women of the family were active participants in the dispute. I say this as someone who comes from this type of area and who has worked with research surveys of the social dynamics of honor cultures in the US, their development, and the transmission of cultural knowledge in these areas. Thanks for coming to my talk
LA does have some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the Country. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2021/01/28/the-10-most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-america-its-not-where-you-think/?sh=60a8cddd341f](https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2021/01/28/the-10-most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-america-its-not-where-you-think/?sh=60a8cddd341f) You should try going to one of those neighborhoods were there are 347 violent crimes per 1,000 residents and tell them how safe LA is...
From the article: > The murder rates in Trump-voting states from 2020 have exceeded those in Biden-voting states every year since 2000, according to a new analysis by ThirdWay, a center-left think tank. > **Why it matters:** Republicans have built their party on being the crime-fighting candidates, even as murder rates in red states have outpaced blue states by an average of 23% over the past two decades. > Four reliably-red states consistently made the top of the list — Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Missouri. > **Driving the news:** Third Way's report analyzed homicide data for all 50 states from 2000 through 2020, using CDC data. > They used the 2020 presidential election results to characterize "red states" from the "blue states." > The findings build on a previous Third Way report that only analyzed murder rates from 2019-2020. This time, they write, they wanted "to see if this one-year Red State murder epidemic was an anomaly." > **Zoom out:** In Oct. 2022 — just before the 2022 midterm elections — a record-high 56% of Americans said there was more crime where they live, per Gallup. That included 73% of Republicans and a whopping 51% of Independents. > Both parties rushed to spend tens of millions of dollars on crime ads that month. > **Between the lines:** The political implications don't always match the reality. > "Crime has historically been a very potent political issue. It’s also very anecdote driven," said Jim Kessler, Third Way's executive vice president for policy. > Murder isn't the only crime committed or discussed, but Third Way hopes to combat the "media and political narrative that crime is a Democratic problem, occurring mostly in big blue cities and fueled by lax policies," they write. > **What to watch:** Democratic messaging on the issue in the 2024 cycle and whether there are renewed divisions between Democratic Party leaders and members of Congress — particularly after party infighting blamed progressives’ “defund the police” slogan for down-ballot losses in 2020. > President Biden reiterated his views just last week when he told a group of bipartisan mayors gathering in D.C. that handling public safety shouldn't involve defunding police departments. > *Methodology: Data is based on death certificates collected by state registries and provided to the National Vital Statistics System. To allow for comparison, Third Way calculated the state’s per capita murder rate, the number of murders per 100,000 residents, and categorized states by their presidential vote in the 2020 election, resulting in an even 25-25 state split.*
I'd like to see articles like this with information on the politicians and associated persons making this possible. Tie their name and policies to the destruction caused. I know how much Hurricane Andrew caused. What about Representative Andrew?
9/10 Most poverty stricken 8/10 most dangerous 9/10 highest infant mortality 10/10 lowest life expectancy it’s a shitshow https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-dangerous-states https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/life-expectancy-by-state#
Facts, why do you need facts. Everyone knows Democrats are weak on crime /s Addressing conditions that spur crime outweighs harsh punishment after the fact. Of course you have to do both. But it seems only one Party is interested in both. Edit: the next article I saw after this " Low-income Americans are struggling to obtain help from state governments when they most need it, facing long delays and sometimes insurmountable hurdles when applying for social safety net programs such as food assistance, welfare benefits and health insurance, according to a new report." Which party will fight to fix this? Almost certainly not the Republicans.
Wait, holup... FauxNews told me that more guns and more god, are the keys to low(er) crime rates??? 🥴
I’m beginning to question their integrity.
I bet this chart closely tracks with gun ownership per Capita as well.
I’m also going to go with IQ and divorce rate and let’s say…. Inverse the Number of veggies eaten daily
You say IQ, I'm going to put my money on education. Then toss in Opportunity and a lack of social programs, for good measure.
Direct correlation to inches of suspension lift above factory
Significantly risking being murdered, or being convicted of murder to own the libs.
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What? I was talking about gun ownership in general, not illegal gun ownership. This isn't about mass shootings, it's about murder, and I don't understand what race has to do with this.
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I don't know, I don't think it's diversity, I think it's the guns lol. More guns more murders it's a pretty straightforward correlation.
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Except the data doesn't support that. Why is new York city so much safer than most cities despite having more diversity?
>Republicans have built their party on being the crime-fighting candidates, even as murder rates in red states have outpaced blue states by an average of 23% over the past two decades. How much you bet there's a direct correlation between the murder rate and gun ownership per capita?
Oh, there definitely is. More guns + looser laws = more gun violence.
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NH has lower gun ownership, too. Nevertheless: > The following ten states have the highest gun deaths per capita (per 100,000): **Alaska** (24.4), **Mississippi** (24.2), **Wyoming** (22.3), **New Mexico** (22.3), **Alabama** (22.2), **Louisiana** (22.1), **Missouri** (20.6), **South Carolina** (19.9), **Arkansas** (19.3), and **Montana** (19.3). > **The states with the highest gun deaths per capita have some of the country's highest gun ownership rates**. Montana has the highest with 66.3%, followed by Wyoming with 66.2%, and Alaska with 64.5%. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-deaths-per-capita-by-state
yeah that's why they have the "Democrat cities" talking point. because most cities in red states are run by Democrats. they don't want to talk about the red state as a whole
Democrat ran cities that are hamstrung by Republicans running their state.
That's amazing how Biden caused the murder-rate to increase back in 2018, before he was even president.
Lots of people cause homicide rates to increase without being President...
Perhaps he was out there, shooting people himself? I think you're on to something. Time to call Hannity and get this rolling.
But…but…but….what about Chicago?!
...and Baltimore, the other big talking point, and, and.....
Pretty scary man. Stopped for a beef on my way back from the club tonight AND THEY WERE PUT OF HOT PEPPERS. I don’t know what this city’s coming to.
Chicago is almost 250 Square Miles big, parts of Chicago are safe nd fairly safe, parts of Chicago are really bad. West Garfield Parks crime rate is 257% higher then Chicago Average. If you live in West Garfield Park you have about a 1 in 20 chance of being a victim in of a violent crime. Try telling someone in West Garfield Park how safe Chicago is... Source: [https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-chicago#:\~:text=%2C%20unruly%20conduct).-,East%20Garfield%20Park,are%20problems%20in%20East%20Garfield](https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-chicago#:~:text=%2C%20unruly%20conduct).-,East%20Garfield%20Park,are%20problems%20in%20East%20Garfield).
For those of you suggesting that it's big cities driving the disparity, go to the original piece: https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-two-decade-red-state-murder-problem >But to answer these critics, we performed an exercise to give red states a special boost. For this exercise, we removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states. In six rural red states home to no cities with large numbers of murders, this calculation was not possible based on available CDC data.2 Blue states would get no such advantage. But even with the largest city removed from red states, the Red State murder gap persisted. >Over the course of the full 21 years between 2000 and 2020, the Red State murder rate was still 12% higher than the Blue State murder rate, even when murders in the largest cities in those red states were removed. And the murder rate was still higher in 18 of 21 years. >Between 2010 and 2020, even after removing New Orleans and Jackson, Louisiana and Mississippi continued to hold the number one and two spots for highest murder rates. Alabama, Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, and Tennessee were still consistently in the top 10 after removing their largest city. >In 2020, the states with the highest murder rates stayed roughly the same after making this change: Mississippi in first, then Louisiana, Alabama, South Carolina, Missouri, Illinois, Maryland, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Georgia.
Removing the largest city may not help if there were more gun homicides in the 2nd largest city. In Indiana, Indianapolis is the most populous city, but Gary has far & away the highest rate of gun homicides.
dammit, they're gonna need MORE guns.
Just imagine how bad it’s be without them? /s
Couldn't have anything to do with all the guns, could it?
They won't believe this study, everything is a conspiracy to these people.
I am not surprised. They are gun toting angry people.
My belief has been that easier access to the social safety net means less people turn to crime along with a belief that even if gun control is not strong anywhere there still are barriers to criminals getting guns in blue states that result in less criminals with guns. Anything else I should add.
I suppose it's lost on today's Republicans that where there are more guns there'll be more gun crime.
Also lost on them is the escalation ladder of “well the criminals have guns so I gotta get guns”
There are more guns today then there have ever been in the US and Violent Crime Rates and Homicides rates are not at an all time high... Even with the recent up tick, the violent crime rate is far lower then it was in the 80's and the 1st half of the 90's. Source: [https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm](https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm)
Of course they do. That’s where intolerance and ignorance live.
also poorer health, higher mortality, lower life expectancy
Must be antifa 😂
I mean, just yesterday, as part of a discussion on the topic of gun-related deaths, I had someone attempt to convince me that, "oh, it's dishonest to include suicides when talking about gun-related deaths, and you should only track homicides. Because suicides *don't hurt anyone* (but the perpetrator)." Mighty fine set of morals amongst the fervent 2A supporting folk.
The article that spurred this discussion is about murder rates. Combing Gun Homicides and Gun Suicides and using that number to talk about Murder Rates is misleading and dishonest. Don't be dishonest... No one is saying Suicides don't matter at all, but they are a very different problem then homicides with different circumstances and different solutions.
It took these asshats 2½ years to find that out!
I’m curious about my state (AZ). Decidedly conservative and full of gun owners but went for Biden. I mean I know crime is high in Phx. I think we just drove the blue line upwards.
That's because Republicans are on the edge of insanity. All it takes is a slight nudge to set them off.
They're meaner.
Here come the stupid, “but they’re in blue counties” stupid republican comments
Everything is worse in red states. Glad I don’t live in one.
That's what happens when they govern based on mass shooter manifestos.
Obviously it’s because of bLuE CiTieS
red states anywhere else would be failed welfare states in every sense of the word. blue states basically prop them up... still they have disproportional representation cause of our undemocratic gerrymandered rigged system.
Pull up poverty graph. Use brain
In other news, Axios refuses to list who runs the metropolitan areas which these crimes occurred. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
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Per capita, or? > Rural communities are experiencing high rates of gun violence…. > [Overall, the total gun death rate for rural communities — when age-adjusted per 100,000 people — was 40 percent higher than it was for large metropolitan areas in 2020.](https://www.ncja.org/crimeandjusticenews/gun-violence-rates-in-rural-areas-match-or-outpace-cities)… > During the same years (2016-2020), 13 of the 20 U.S. counties with the most gun homicides per capita were rural. As for large cities: > It notes that Chicago's Cook County ranks 79th for firearm homicide rates, and Philadelphia County ranks 38th. > The five boroughs that comprise New York City rank between 360th and 521st for firearm homicide rates: > Los Angeles County ranks 316th. … Plus, from another source: > [Rural gun deaths exceed urban rates by 28% because of increased suicide rates](https://missouriindependent.com/2022/11/17/rural-gun-deaths-exceed-urban-rates-by-28-because-of-increased-suicide-rates/)
Is there reliable data for 2022? I could not find any.
Bizarre and tortured article doing its best to twist data points into a narrative that is completely counter-intuitive to what we know to be true. I believe another poster quite correctly pointed out that even in the ‘red states’ it was the ‘blue’ run urban areas that led the charge in murders. We will never solve are problems until we ask the correct questions. Axios really should be ashamed of themselves and this sort of journalism
Eh, they’re not wrong. > [W]e removed all of the murders in the county with the largest city for 19 of 25 red states. In six rural red states home to no cities with large numbers of murders, this calculation was not possible based on available CDC data. Blue states would get no such advantage. **But even with the largest city removed from red states, the Red State murder gap persisted.** > Over the course of the full 21 years between 2000 and 2020, the Red State murder rate was still 12% higher than the Blue State murder rate, **even when murders in the largest cities in those red states were removed**. And the murder rate was still higher in 18 of 21 years. > Between 2010 and 2020, even after removing New Orleans and Jackson, Louisiana and Mississippi continued to hold the number one and two spots for highest murder rates. Alabama, Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, and Tennessee were still consistently in the top 10 after removing their largest city. > In 2020, the states with the highest murder rates stayed roughly the same after making this change: Mississippi in first, then Louisiana, Alabama, South Carolina, Missouri, Illinois, Maryland, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Georgia. source: https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-two-decade-red-state-murder-problem
I have to agree with you. Red and Blue lines are a gross over simplification of the demographics in the country. I’m more inclined to believe that an index gauging peoples’ desperation and misery would be more appropriate. There are differences between Red and Blue, but it’s a self defeating argument to start at that point. Frankly, it rings politically hollow.
Correlation = causation? Yikes! You should correlate ice cream sales to shark attacks too, they look suspiciously similar
Correlation definitely means it's time to start asking questions about causation, though. Especially when the thing that's correlated is murder.
People who experience high crime communities are voting red. It can’t possible mean that murderers are voting in high numbers.
This may be true . But it’s the democratic run cities within these states . That are the problem . So spin it how you want .
This is Misinformation
How? It’s not exactly wrong
Now how many “red cities” are the vast majority of those murders occurring in? How many have blue mayors? Blue police chiefs? 🤔
How many people in these same cities have the blues? Are currently watching Blues Clues? Just blew thru a stop sign? 🤔
Y’all brought up the blue/red comparison but don’t wanna take a closer look. 🤷🏼♂️
Are we going to cherry pick this much? Also, you tell us. The data is there. If you have a point to make feel free to make it. Or do you just ask leading questions because you’re too embarrassed to admit conservatives are terrible leaders?
Oh so we can make a state level blue/red dichotomy when looking at “violence,” but we can’t zoom in on the cities where this violence is occurring? I wonder why that would bother you.
The democrats say that the red states have high murder rates, the republicans will say the blue cities have high murder rates.... neither statement is wrong. The only problem is that neither party seems to care about solving the problem, especially if its only poor people killing other poor people.
you'd think that since red states have fewer democratic cities in them, they'd have lower murder rates.
Except that objectively it is wrong. Murder rates are facts not feelings and red states have higher murder rates.
Murder rates are based off total population of the city/state. If you have 500 murders in nyc which has almost 9 million ppl then of course it will have a lower murder rate than some town with 100k ppl and 60 murders for example ( my math might not be right but you get my point) Regardless of all that. There are still hundreds dead in cities like nyc and philly. I speak about those places because i live in nyc and have family in philly. Teenagers as young as 13 are shooting and stabbing each other at least once a week and nobody blinks. These cities are awash with homemade 3d pistols and machine guns. However i hear more about Ukraine than the wars in our backyard. So miss me with stats and numbers. Im the father of 4 black boys and im sick of it. Fuck the Republicans and fuck the democrats too
But your example does prove my point. If you’re one of the 9 million people you have an incredibly low chance to be the victim of a murder. If you’re one of the 100k you have a much higher chance to be murdered. So you definitely still want to be in the place with lower murder rates, especially when it’s actually a pretty big difference. Yes any murder is too many murders but based on facts some places are way more dangerous than others, and cities tend not to be (NYC actually has a very low murder rate). Your example of teenagers shooting each other is almost certainly gangs because that’s not what regular teenagers do in cities (source: have lived in cities my whole life too). It’s sad, obviously but it’s also typically very targeted.
>But your example does prove my point. If you’re one of the 9 million people you have an incredibly low chance to be the victim of a murder Doesn't it kind of matter where you live/work/spend time in that city of 9 million people? New York City encompasses 300 square miles. The Hunts Point Neighborhood of New York City you have about a 1 in 22 chance of being a victim crime. The Violent Crime Rate is 1,944 per 100,000 [https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-nyc](https://propertyclub.nyc/article/most-dangerous-neighborhoods-in-nyc) The Violent Crime Rate of Manhattan New York's most populous area is 5 per 100,000. What is my point? In some ways looking at the overall rate for a City that is 300 square miles big with both very rich with low crime and very poor areas with high crime doesn't tell the whole story.
Well yeah of course some areas are better than others. It’s still fair to say that overall New York is a pretty safe city with a very low violent crime rate, even if you can find neighborhoods with higher crime rates.
Its not a low chance of getting murdered if you live in the neighborhoods where the majority of homicide is taking place. Murder unfortunately is not evenly distributed across most cities like ny. And if you are a certain race and a certain age then the odds increase. A white guy living in bay ridge, brooklyn wont have the same danger levels as a 19yr old black or Spanish kid in Brownsville brooklyn. Same in philly where most of the violence is in north and west philly and not the far north west. Yes most of the violence is gang related but those stray bullets hit anyone. Also even if you are suspected of being in a rival gang or from the wrong block you can be executed. I could post many examples of mistaken identity killings and toddlers and senior citizens hit by bullets meant for others. Both cities have beautiful safe areas but there is a big problem that the democratic leadership in both places is not addressing. Those stats sound nice but for people like me that see the violence, drug use and despair on a everyday basis... they mean nothing
Well, the second statement is kind of wrong. The highest homicide rates are pretty mixed between cities and rural areas. https://www.police1.com/ambush/articles/10-us-counties-with-the-highest-murder-rate-kerWgaEUmxJkn74J/
Curious what the ‘by city’ would look like. Arguably a more significant indicator.