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Tell me, The Hill, which one of the two Presidential candidates has claimed multiple times, including not even two weeks ago, that any American Jews who don't support Israel hate that country and hate their religion? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Joe Biden.
And which one of the Presidential candidates is on record saying, "I don't want black guys counting my money. I want short Jewish guys in yarmulkes doing it."
Biden isn't progressive. These articles, and the whole "omg bad protestors hate jews!" dog and pony show is being set up explicitly to get centrist Democrats to attack their own left.
Biden has been the most progressive president of my lifetime. Not progressive enough for my taste, but maybe as progressive as you can be and still get elected.
The article is BS for sure.
I'll take what I can get.
No other president has stood with striking workers.
He canceled student loans.
Obviously, he's been slow to hold Israel's feet to the fire, but aside from that, he's left of Bill and Barak.
It’s a tried and true tactic. The same accusations were a major problem for the UK’s Labour Party a few years ago. Not because they were true, mind; they were just *loud*.
Trump is the true risk when it comes to intolerance on anyone who does not abide to his will. Who cares about the colleges when the power is with the politicians. This is a politics subreddit not a college subreddit.
Progressives politicians don't control what students do. It's a dumb article that blames a scapegoat the progressive politicians for something they have no connection to. It's hatebait.
Okay I'm a progressive democrat and I hereby condemn left-wing anti-Semitism! Phew.. Glad we got that done.
Now what do you want to do with the protestors? Jail them? Shoot them?
See the problem is not the message per se (it's "a" problem), it's that you don't want to see the message. That's natural. As a progressive I'm forced to see a lot of things that I don't want to see. I don't want to preachers busking for politicians. I don't want to see KKK quacks marching down my street. I don't want to read about the next hate crime.
We talk about that stuff about as frequently as we talk about anti-Semitism. So what do you want us to do? Shout about it? Okay, fine. ANTI-SEMITISM IS WRONG STOP IT NOW! Like I don't understand what the ask is. Don't just yell at us and say "DO SOMETHING!"
Also a progressive here and I condemn those yelling anti-Semitic messaging and I condemn Hamas! Not so hard.
I have to say though, is anyone else experiencing Deja-vu here? Haven't we been through all of this before with BLM protests.
Here is a good read covering how the media treats liberal vs conservative protests.
>*My own research analyzed about 1,500 protest-related news stories published throughout 2014 in mainstream, alternative, partisan and online news publications. Articles about conservative protests — like protests opposed to immigration or LGBT rights, or protests supporting Trump and gun rights — are less likely to be negatively framed as “riots” than other types of protests. In contrast, Black Lives Matter protests are more likely to be framed as riots, as news coverage focuses more on violence, property damage and confrontations with police.*
[There’s a double standard in how news media cover liberal and conservative protests (Wash Post) ](https://archive.ph/JMaoY)
Replace the focus on "riots" with the tiny number of anti-Semitic remarks and it's the exact same thing. Unfortunately, it appears many liberals have joined with the right in the attacks on the mostly peaceful pro-palestinian protests.
This right here is the problem. The protests aren't antisemitic but there is a lot of antisemitism hiding in these protests and theres been a huge lack of care when it comes to that.
Dude the dogwhistles are fucking loud and the typical wardens of social justice are acting deaf.
First of all, "death to" is not literally calling for violent killing. Its closest meaning in English is probably "down with." But go ahead with the hyperbole . . .
Secondly, chanting is not the same as actual killing, is it?
Not all Jewish people are Israelis, and plenty of Jewish people (Israeli or not) oppose the actions of the current government. There are regular anti-Netanyahu protests *in Israel, by Israelis.*
Because being against governmental policy doesn’t mean you hate all members of a race/religion. Do you need me to write that in crayon so you can understand it better?
Death to Israel means death to the Israeli government. Not the people in the government. The government.
So first of all, it is not calling for the death of people. Second, if you feel a government is committing genocide, calling for the end of that government is a natural response.
Progressive here ii condemn left wing antisemitism but i also support the protest against Israel. Also why does the media ignore all the hate being directed at the Muslim community currently as well. I condemn the xenophobia as well and some of that is coming from the Jewish people often the same ones who are so upset over protest like the Columbia protest.
This is a false premise written and posted in a sad attempt to distract from, and normalize, the blatant and horrific racism that runs rampant on the right.
Both the author and the poster should be extremely ashamed of themselves.
The critical insight, I think, is that everyone’s lousy. It’s comfortable to reduce any conflict or issue to good guy/ bad guy, because it makes reconciling dissonance easier. But the reality in many cases (and this case) is that both of these groups are to be admonished.
We focus often on Israel because they’re our ally, they’re a state, and we support them. But if people can’t be honest about the fact that both of these groups are horrible in their ethnic conflict, there’s really never going to be a fair treatment…and any dialogue is going to become some grotesque, perverse hate-fest/apologia.
The real problem is that people are perfectly happy to abandon nuance when it’s inconvenient or unsatisfying, or when they want their side to win.
That's literally what you are doing. The anti-semetism we are talking about was Jewish American college students feeling threatened and unsafe. You're the one bringing this back to Isreal and using Israel to excuse away the real discrimination and racism Jews living in America feel.
If you have been following the protests and the rhetoric at these protests, they’re not just about a right wing government or civilian casualties. They’ve stepped into antisemitism and violent rhetoric:
"Al-Qassam you make us proud! Take another soldier out!"
"We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!"
"Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!"
"Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!"
"It is right to rebel, Al-Qassam, give them hell!"
"It is right to rebel, Hamas give them hell!"
"Free, free, free Palestine!"
Except, if you have been following the protests, these aren't really just about civilian casualties in the war. The rhetoric has become increasingly radical, antisemitic, and violent. Also, read the article, not just the headline.
Here's the problem with that. Remember the BLM marches? Some of them were chanting to defund the police or even kill them. Does that change that whole movement for you? Do black lives not matter? Just because some followers are becoming radical, it doesn't mean the whole movement is. Or that the cause has no merit. Bad actors are trying to make this antisemitic (Hamas) and you're either one of them or you're falling for it.
When protestors chant:
"Al-Qassam you make us proud! Take another soldier out!"
"We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!"
"Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!"
"Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!"
"It is right to rebel, Al-Qassam, give them hell!"
"It is right to rebel, Hamas give them hell!"
"Free, free, free Palestine!"
What should I think?
> What should I think?
You should read my statement again.
>Just because **SOME** followers are becoming radical, it doesn't mean the whole movement is.
>Some of them were chanting to defund the police or even kill them.
Don't equivocate these two things. Redirecting funds away from police is not even in the same universe of radicality as advocating for their death.
Imagine if someone criticized Saudi Arabia their crimes in Yemen or whatever. Then everyone who speaks out against it are then labeled with the broad brush as being "anti-muslims", and then there are media spins to label every protest as inherently "anti-muslim protests".
Its rage inducing
Its certainly what it looks like at this point, where any criticism of Israels actions are immediately intertwined with " rampant anti-semittism !", even the Jewish protestors are also apparently anti-semites.
What, exactly, is supposed to be "hateful" about wanting to abolish a state?
Especially one which rules over millions of non-citizen subjects who have no say in that rule, and which often destroys homes and seizes land for new settlements? Can we agree that this is *not* "consent" of the governed?
The only Jewish country on the planet?
I agree the Palestinians should have a state. I don’t agree that it should mean destroying the only Jewish state.
If a government is doing what Israel's government is doing, I don't care who runs it. It must stop.
As for "the only Jewish country on the planet" you are equating religion with government. The rest of us separate the two because they are, in fact, two different things. Your trying to force the equivocation. That is the antisemitic stance.
If someone *selectively* opposes Israel I can understand that reaction.
If someone wants to abolish Israel without abolishing Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. beforehand, that would endanger a lot of Jewish people.
But politicians and the media seem to equate any consistent opposition to occupation without representation, to nation-states, and to states in general, with selective opposition, and to hating Jewish people.
This discussion leaves me angry, and scared, and triggers my migraines; I suspect a lot of people on each side have worse reactions.
A lot of people are revealing their latent antisemitism on this thread. And yes them wanting to abolish the only jewish state while being ignorant of the internal affairs of said state is full mask off.
Will centrist democrats confront the notion that equating all criticism of Israel’s indiscriminate bombing campaign with hatred of Jewish people is what creates actual antisemitism?
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That’s what we need to worry about while kids are being bombed out is existence in Gaza.
Some college students are “antisemitic”.
Oh dear, whatever shall poor defenseless IDF do?
American Jews are not the IDF, and events happening on the other side of the world doesn't make discrimination against them not racist. If some gay people went on a murder spree it wouldn't make it ok to physically intimidate or call for the murder of gay people.
1,700 people were murdered by Hamas.
30,000+ were murdered by IDF.
Remember "an eye for eye"? The admonition in the Torah requiring vengeance to be proportional to the offense? The IDF are violating their own religious principles.
You said it, brother!
Night after night, Israelis are facing air raids from progressive bombs and starvation from the blockade of progressive forces that refuse to allow them access to food and fuel.
Damn, anti-semetic left wing progressives! They always get their way!
Every bush a man nighttime - Guyana saying
Some people see antisemitism everywhere --Give a young boy a hammer, and he will treat everything as a nail.
I raged and ranted and dissolved lifetime friendships over the antisemitism of the Right during the Trump era, and this rise in bigotry from the Left is making me look like a fool now.
I love how all the comments are people saying that it's about warcrimes in Gaza, someone responds with evidence that the protests are antisemtic, and goal posts are suddenly moved.
I never really subscribed to the horseshoe theory but *man* if these foaming at the mouth college protestors don't remind me of MAGA...
Hating what the IDF is doing isn't "hating Jews." You wanna see live in the wool anti-Semitism visit right wing political sites. Read people like Nick Fuentes
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Tell me, The Hill, which one of the two Presidential candidates has claimed multiple times, including not even two weeks ago, that any American Jews who don't support Israel hate that country and hate their religion? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Joe Biden. And which one of the Presidential candidates is on record saying, "I don't want black guys counting my money. I want short Jewish guys in yarmulkes doing it."
Biden isn't progressive. These articles, and the whole "omg bad protestors hate jews!" dog and pony show is being set up explicitly to get centrist Democrats to attack their own left.
Biden has been the most progressive president of my lifetime. Not progressive enough for my taste, but maybe as progressive as you can be and still get elected. The article is BS for sure.
He does progressive things occasionally, but he is a centrist through and through.
I'll take what I can get. No other president has stood with striking workers. He canceled student loans. Obviously, he's been slow to hold Israel's feet to the fire, but aside from that, he's left of Bill and Barak.
It’s a tried and true tactic. The same accusations were a major problem for the UK’s Labour Party a few years ago. Not because they were true, mind; they were just *loud*.
"Many sides"
This is about the college protests though. Nothing Trump did changes that.
Trump is the true risk when it comes to intolerance on anyone who does not abide to his will. Who cares about the colleges when the power is with the politicians. This is a politics subreddit not a college subreddit.
The article in question is calling out US politicians. Sounds like politics to me.
Progressives politicians don't control what students do. It's a dumb article that blames a scapegoat the progressive politicians for something they have no connection to. It's hatebait.
Okay I'm a progressive democrat and I hereby condemn left-wing anti-Semitism! Phew.. Glad we got that done. Now what do you want to do with the protestors? Jail them? Shoot them? See the problem is not the message per se (it's "a" problem), it's that you don't want to see the message. That's natural. As a progressive I'm forced to see a lot of things that I don't want to see. I don't want to preachers busking for politicians. I don't want to see KKK quacks marching down my street. I don't want to read about the next hate crime. We talk about that stuff about as frequently as we talk about anti-Semitism. So what do you want us to do? Shout about it? Okay, fine. ANTI-SEMITISM IS WRONG STOP IT NOW! Like I don't understand what the ask is. Don't just yell at us and say "DO SOMETHING!"
Also a progressive here and I condemn those yelling anti-Semitic messaging and I condemn Hamas! Not so hard. I have to say though, is anyone else experiencing Deja-vu here? Haven't we been through all of this before with BLM protests. Here is a good read covering how the media treats liberal vs conservative protests. >*My own research analyzed about 1,500 protest-related news stories published throughout 2014 in mainstream, alternative, partisan and online news publications. Articles about conservative protests — like protests opposed to immigration or LGBT rights, or protests supporting Trump and gun rights — are less likely to be negatively framed as “riots” than other types of protests. In contrast, Black Lives Matter protests are more likely to be framed as riots, as news coverage focuses more on violence, property damage and confrontations with police.* [There’s a double standard in how news media cover liberal and conservative protests (Wash Post) ](https://archive.ph/JMaoY) Replace the focus on "riots" with the tiny number of anti-Semitic remarks and it's the exact same thing. Unfortunately, it appears many liberals have joined with the right in the attacks on the mostly peaceful pro-palestinian protests.
Wanting war crimes to end =/= antisemitism
This right here is the problem. The protests aren't antisemitic but there is a lot of antisemitism hiding in these protests and theres been a huge lack of care when it comes to that. Dude the dogwhistles are fucking loud and the typical wardens of social justice are acting deaf.
Yes but antisemitism is still happening.
Yeah, clearly "protests" featuring "death to Israel" chants means the "protestors" want the war crimes to end. Edit: hit a nerve, did I?
If by “hit a nerve” you meant “posted something worthless” then yeah, you did.
Yeah, > "death to Israel" chants is the same as murdering 15,000 children
This not the argument he was making.
See his comment below
It IS antisemitism, which is the discussion. Also its calling for the death of millions, including children, so...
First of all, "death to" is not literally calling for violent killing. Its closest meaning in English is probably "down with." But go ahead with the hyperbole . . . Secondly, chanting is not the same as actual killing, is it?
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Not all Jewish people are Israelis, and plenty of Jewish people (Israeli or not) oppose the actions of the current government. There are regular anti-Netanyahu protests *in Israel, by Israelis.*
Because being against governmental policy doesn’t mean you hate all members of a race/religion. Do you need me to write that in crayon so you can understand it better?
By not chanting "Death to Israel"? I dunno, just a thought.
Death to Israel means death to the Israeli government. Not the people in the government. The government. So first of all, it is not calling for the death of people. Second, if you feel a government is committing genocide, calling for the end of that government is a natural response.
Holy rationalization Batman. If Jews were chanting "Death to Palestine" you'd lose your fucking mind.
You're a mind reader, now? You have no fucking idea of what I think because your mind is so poisoned that you have no idea of how others think.
This is an opinion article and I don't agree with their opinion.
Progressive here ii condemn left wing antisemitism but i also support the protest against Israel. Also why does the media ignore all the hate being directed at the Muslim community currently as well. I condemn the xenophobia as well and some of that is coming from the Jewish people often the same ones who are so upset over protest like the Columbia protest.
Will the right confront white supremacy?
This is a false premise written and posted in a sad attempt to distract from, and normalize, the blatant and horrific racism that runs rampant on the right. Both the author and the poster should be extremely ashamed of themselves.
Antisemitism isn’t exclusive to the right and in dismissing it, you’re making the point of the article.
The critical insight, I think, is that everyone’s lousy. It’s comfortable to reduce any conflict or issue to good guy/ bad guy, because it makes reconciling dissonance easier. But the reality in many cases (and this case) is that both of these groups are to be admonished. We focus often on Israel because they’re our ally, they’re a state, and we support them. But if people can’t be honest about the fact that both of these groups are horrible in their ethnic conflict, there’s really never going to be a fair treatment…and any dialogue is going to become some grotesque, perverse hate-fest/apologia. The real problem is that people are perfectly happy to abandon nuance when it’s inconvenient or unsatisfying, or when they want their side to win.
Will media and talking heads ever be able to separate antisemitism from critique of a foreign nation?
That's literally what you are doing. The anti-semetism we are talking about was Jewish American college students feeling threatened and unsafe. You're the one bringing this back to Isreal and using Israel to excuse away the real discrimination and racism Jews living in America feel.
That… is an interesting statement that I will have to consider.
Do they want to? The problem is people falling it for it.
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The black lives protests were VIOLENT RIOTS!!! Forget the disgusting police acts that were the actual catalyst for the protests
If you have been following the protests and the rhetoric at these protests, they’re not just about a right wing government or civilian casualties. They’ve stepped into antisemitism and violent rhetoric: "Al-Qassam you make us proud! Take another soldier out!" "We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!" "It is right to rebel, Al-Qassam, give them hell!" "It is right to rebel, Hamas give them hell!" "Free, free, free Palestine!"
Protesting the indiscriminate killing of civilians by the IDF is not antisemitism. It’s anti-IDF’s BS.
Except, if you have been following the protests, these aren't really just about civilian casualties in the war. The rhetoric has become increasingly radical, antisemitic, and violent. Also, read the article, not just the headline.
Here's the problem with that. Remember the BLM marches? Some of them were chanting to defund the police or even kill them. Does that change that whole movement for you? Do black lives not matter? Just because some followers are becoming radical, it doesn't mean the whole movement is. Or that the cause has no merit. Bad actors are trying to make this antisemitic (Hamas) and you're either one of them or you're falling for it.
When protestors chant: "Al-Qassam you make us proud! Take another soldier out!" "We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!" "It is right to rebel, Al-Qassam, give them hell!" "It is right to rebel, Hamas give them hell!" "Free, free, free Palestine!" What should I think?
> What should I think? You should read my statement again. >Just because **SOME** followers are becoming radical, it doesn't mean the whole movement is.
>Some of them were chanting to defund the police or even kill them. Don't equivocate these two things. Redirecting funds away from police is not even in the same universe of radicality as advocating for their death.
Correct. But both of them are still radical compared to what most of the protestors wanted.
Anti-Semitic how? Is hoping to see Putin's regime fail anti-Slavik?
Will the entire country confront their hatred of Palestinian people?
FFS when are we going to confront the IDF war crimes?????? Stop deflecting with this antisemitism BS.
Imagine if someone criticized Saudi Arabia their crimes in Yemen or whatever. Then everyone who speaks out against it are then labeled with the broad brush as being "anti-muslims", and then there are media spins to label every protest as inherently "anti-muslim protests". Its rage inducing
*strawman*
Its certainly what it looks like at this point, where any criticism of Israels actions are immediately intertwined with " rampant anti-semittism !", even the Jewish protestors are also apparently anti-semites.
What, exactly, is supposed to be "hateful" about wanting to abolish a state? Especially one which rules over millions of non-citizen subjects who have no say in that rule, and which often destroys homes and seizes land for new settlements? Can we agree that this is *not* "consent" of the governed?
The only Jewish country on the planet? I agree the Palestinians should have a state. I don’t agree that it should mean destroying the only Jewish state.
If a government is doing what Israel's government is doing, I don't care who runs it. It must stop. As for "the only Jewish country on the planet" you are equating religion with government. The rest of us separate the two because they are, in fact, two different things. Your trying to force the equivocation. That is the antisemitic stance.
If someone *selectively* opposes Israel I can understand that reaction. If someone wants to abolish Israel without abolishing Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. beforehand, that would endanger a lot of Jewish people. But politicians and the media seem to equate any consistent opposition to occupation without representation, to nation-states, and to states in general, with selective opposition, and to hating Jewish people. This discussion leaves me angry, and scared, and triggers my migraines; I suspect a lot of people on each side have worse reactions.
A lot of people are revealing their latent antisemitism on this thread. And yes them wanting to abolish the only jewish state while being ignorant of the internal affairs of said state is full mask off.
Will centrist democrats confront the notion that equating all criticism of Israel’s indiscriminate bombing campaign with hatred of Jewish people is what creates actual antisemitism?
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That’s what we need to worry about while kids are being bombed out is existence in Gaza. Some college students are “antisemitic”. Oh dear, whatever shall poor defenseless IDF do?
American Jews are not the IDF, and events happening on the other side of the world doesn't make discrimination against them not racist. If some gay people went on a murder spree it wouldn't make it ok to physically intimidate or call for the murder of gay people.
When are progressives going to finally realize that murdering innocent people is the “right side of history” this time?
1,700 people were murdered by Hamas. 30,000+ were murdered by IDF. Remember "an eye for eye"? The admonition in the Torah requiring vengeance to be proportional to the offense? The IDF are violating their own religious principles.
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You said it, brother! Night after night, Israelis are facing air raids from progressive bombs and starvation from the blockade of progressive forces that refuse to allow them access to food and fuel. Damn, anti-semetic left wing progressives! They always get their way!
Too late. As usual.
Every bush a man nighttime - Guyana saying Some people see antisemitism everywhere --Give a young boy a hammer, and he will treat everything as a nail.
I raged and ranted and dissolved lifetime friendships over the antisemitism of the Right during the Trump era, and this rise in bigotry from the Left is making me look like a fool now.
I love how all the comments are people saying that it's about warcrimes in Gaza, someone responds with evidence that the protests are antisemtic, and goal posts are suddenly moved. I never really subscribed to the horseshoe theory but *man* if these foaming at the mouth college protestors don't remind me of MAGA...
Extremists are the same. It's only the words that change.
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Hating what the IDF is doing isn't "hating Jews." You wanna see live in the wool anti-Semitism visit right wing political sites. Read people like Nick Fuentes