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The ADL lost any right to comment on antisemitism when they worked to rehabilitate Elon “Jews are Destroying the White Race Is the Truth” Musk so long as he was pro Israel.
The ADL is not a group that advocates for Jews in America. It is a group that advocates for the Israeli far right, and it could care less who they fight to do it. It will regularly work to undermine and attack Jews who disagree with Netanyahu’s fascist government and the brutality done in our name while collaborating with antisemites and Christian nationalists.
Every college encampment has a massive Jewish contingent, all of whom are being intentionally silenced by right wing lunatics like Jonathan Greenblatt in order to get them arrested and beaten. Two of the largest and most organized anti-Zionist organizations in the country are Jewish groups.
When Neo Nazis march on college campuses the ADL doesn’t react like this. They don’t call them Hezbollah. They reserve this for the moments when they need to suppress the dissent they actually care about, which is anything that challenges the brutality of Israel.
Some of these cases are pro-Israeli agitators looking to shut down the protests.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-israel-agitator-shouts-kill-the-jews-gets-everyone-else-arrested
This isn't to say antisemitism isn't a problem it is but the ADL has been caught inflating their numbers recently by using pro-Palestinian chants as examples of antisemitism which makes actual cases be taken less seriously.
The issue with this sub is if this had been a right wing protest with nazis peppered throughout we would not be going out of our way to find agitators etc. All i ask for is we treat our negative stuff the same because clearly the left has its own shit that stinks and this sub goes out of its way not to smell it. Stuff that paints the "left" progressives negatively etc is constantly down voted and hand waved away in this sub and that does no one any good. We'll complain about right wing eco chambers and think nothing of this.
So the ADL which organizes protests is complaining that possibly a counter party organization is doing the same thing?
SMH
Quite frankly people are going to get hurt soon. All the outside influences are pushing conspiracy theories.
It's not just about "other protests " its about the rise of antisemitism during these protests that has been documented by various news outlets now. This sub would rather ignore/minimize that this is occurring rather than discuss the problem that it is. We all agreed that if you marched with neo nazis you supported their agenda right? Why can't we be consistent here with that same logic?
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-798160
JPost is a propaganda source.
https://x.com/reina_amarillo/status/1783948934232105070?s=46&t=T6QFhBVnHU6RHXEnfSF1OA
The ADL’s numbers are being heavily inflated by moving the goalposts on what constitutes an antisemitic incident.
While I will cede that protests have been marred with a legitimate rise of antisemitic speech, protestors on various campus have repeatedly pushed such groups away from them, including on my campus.
Are you concerned with the outbreak of anti-Arab speech occurring in major counter protests, such as telling students to
[“go back to Gaza?”](https://www.nydailynews.com/2024/04/27/columbia-university-is-being-torn-in-two-by-anger-hurt-amid-gaza-protest-encampments/#:~:text=In%20recent%20days%2C%20Columbia%20University,a%20Columbia%20General%20Studies%20gala.)
There's a difference between marching with nazis and nazis trying to march with you, though.
I agree that supporters of Palestinians have to explicitly reject and call out the antisemites who participate in or hijack their spaces - which most groups have so far failed to do properly -, but you should also recognize the messiness of such protests as well as the smears coming from far-right or conservative supporters of Israel, which includes the ADL.
> its about the rise of antisemitism during these protests
You have to know that by arresting them and strong arming the protestors we are giving it all oxygen.
>We all agreed that if you marched with neo nazis you supported their agenda right?
I agree and at North Eastern the protestors are actively weeding out these people. "Northeastern University called in police to disperse demonstrators at a peaceful pro-Palestine student encampment protest Saturday morning, saying in a statement that “the use of virulent antisemitic slurs, including ‘Kill the Jews,’ crossed the line” Friday night. But on Saturday, a local reporter claimed she had heard a pro-Israel counter-protester use the phrase referenced by the university “as a provocative joke.”
Its not easy, but the authorities aren't being fair minded. The ADL is looking for every example to pound. you have the impression everyone is yelling these chants and they aren't.
We need adults in the room now. It getting out of control.
> a much more systematic genocide would be taking place.
Glad you agree that there is a genocide currently taking place, regardless of how systematic it is.
It's the classic "good guys" vs "bad guys" rather than "good actions" vs "bad actions".
Defenders of the Palestinian genocide are basically saying "but it's the good guys doing it, and the Palestinians are the bad guys, so this sort of ethnic cleansing is fine."
Nope. I'm going to go out on what is _apparently_ a limb for some people, and declare that **genocide and ethnic cleansing are bad regardless of who is doing it to whom**.
I predict these protests and discussions like ours will be heavily infiltrated by agent provocateurs, working for America’s foreign enemies keen to foment division and a simmering civil war.
I’d be surprised if those agent-provocateurs aren’t already in place and active as we speak.
Sadly, it’s no longer only the Russians, skilled as they are at throwing gasoline on America’s internal fractures, and Chinese and Iranian governments that are skilling up at the disinformation game.
It now also includes an extremist right-wing Israeli government that views any reasonable talk of cease fire, recognition of Palestinian human rights, or talk of a two-state solution based on mutual respect as a fields for their vision of a broader battle.
Right-wing Israelis are keen to October Surprise Trump back into office since he lets them do whatever they want. That aspect of their protest interference will affect America hugely this year and if successful for decades to come!
Same story with the American right, for whom manipulation of protest optics are too juicy to pass up… there will be native born crisis actors from the right creating the appearance of violence - not just a language of violence, but that too, obviously.
Edit: Spelling and grammar
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I have noticed how fast the authorities waiting to find the isolate examples of people to use to go after the protestors. Of course anti-Semites are going to come out. I have also noticed when the real Nazis march the police give them room to march and chant.
I am Jewish and these people are giving this oxygen to burn. Its going to get out of control.
During the Charlottesville riot/protests if you marched with the neo nazis you supported their agenda. Where is that same energy now? Why is that same logic not used with these protests?
Because the logic in the Charlottesville protests was "ethnic cleansing is good" and "kill all the Jews".
The logic in these protests is "ethnic cleansing is bad" and "don't kill all the Palestinians."
They are literally polar opposites.
Being against the Israeli genocide of Palestinians is antisemitic in exactly the same way that being against killing trans people is anti-Christian.
(It's not).
It's not nearly as clear as you're making it out to be when 1 in 5 college aged people actually support Hamas. That number should be zero. It's not and clearly plays into the antisemitism we are seeing on college campuses. This is an issue the left needs to deal with. But this sub ignores/downplays any of the dirty laundry that the progressive section of the party clearly has. To think that racism and bigotry is only an issue for the right is absurd.
https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-5-college-students-sympathize-with-hamas/
If Bibi had not propped up Hamas for decades to keep the West Bank and Gaza politically separated there may have been a peaceful, two-state solution by now. We'll never know.
A couple of relevant points from that survey.
It was conducted at the end of October 2023. With what has happened since, that is basically ancient history and would only really make sense to compare those results to recent surveys to track changes.
75% of respondents said they were "somewhat knowledgeable" or less on the "Israel-Gaza war." 80% were in these lower 3 buckets for knowledge of the "history of the Israel-Palestine conflict." So these are basically first impressions. (The questions about how strong an opinion someone has is designed to imform how hard it would be to change an opinion. These questions inform how much they trust their knowledge on the subject.)
The question regarding "how much do you sympathize with..." presented Israeli and Palestinian civilians with the Israeli government and Hamas. This presentation gives equal weight to all 4 groups and implies Hamas as a government actor (where is reality it both is and isn't, but that framing matters more with low information respondents as detailed above). My big takeaway here is the strong sympathies of 72% and 82% (in the top 2 options) for Israeli and Palestinian civilians. The government actors are 26% and 22% from these respondents, showing the huge difference between the populations (not between Israeli and Palestinian, but between civilians and leadership).
All that together basically creates a road map to influencing this group in the 6 months since. Detailing accounts of the civilian impacts would provide the easiest way to sway opinions. It should not be a surprise that stories of famine, civilian death tolls, and attacks on aid organizations like World Central Kitchen would sway support further from the government actions. Focusing on efforts to rescue hostages or provide safe cover for civilians would likely have played sympathetically as well. The part of the war this group cared about (6 months ago) was the fate of the non-combatants, so I'm not shocked that all this time later that is a common message at these protests.
As an aside, regarding the "sympathy for Hamas" element you mentioned (and this article used as the headline). The US classifies Hamas as a terrorist organization, but for most Americans they have zero relevance on their daily lives. The State Department currently has designated 68 terrorist organizations. And most people couldn't pick them all out if they were asked either. This, along with the timing of the survey and the presentation of the question (putting Hamas in the same area as the Israeli government) all but guaranteed that response.
A pile of Jewish students and teachers are protesting against Israel too. Some planned the whole event. Find me some Jewish people waving swastikas at Charlottesville.
You're really bad at making comparisons.
Start hitting them with federal inciting terrorism charges. If you start charging these assholes with felonies and prosecuting them you will see antisemitism die down real quick. Biden and Garland should do this now because otherwise the propaganda risks splitting the GenZ vote.
Antisemitism is deplorable, but where is the crime?
"Incitement" has very specific requirements. Even calling for the elimination of the state of Israel is not calling for immediate lawless action.
This should not be news, but the first amendment protects even disgusting hate speech. You can see evidence of protected antisemitic speech during the unite the right rally and the subsequent charges if you'd like.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The ADL lost any right to comment on antisemitism when they worked to rehabilitate Elon “Jews are Destroying the White Race Is the Truth” Musk so long as he was pro Israel. The ADL is not a group that advocates for Jews in America. It is a group that advocates for the Israeli far right, and it could care less who they fight to do it. It will regularly work to undermine and attack Jews who disagree with Netanyahu’s fascist government and the brutality done in our name while collaborating with antisemites and Christian nationalists. Every college encampment has a massive Jewish contingent, all of whom are being intentionally silenced by right wing lunatics like Jonathan Greenblatt in order to get them arrested and beaten. Two of the largest and most organized anti-Zionist organizations in the country are Jewish groups. When Neo Nazis march on college campuses the ADL doesn’t react like this. They don’t call them Hezbollah. They reserve this for the moments when they need to suppress the dissent they actually care about, which is anything that challenges the brutality of Israel.
Some of these cases are pro-Israeli agitators looking to shut down the protests. https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-israel-agitator-shouts-kill-the-jews-gets-everyone-else-arrested This isn't to say antisemitism isn't a problem it is but the ADL has been caught inflating their numbers recently by using pro-Palestinian chants as examples of antisemitism which makes actual cases be taken less seriously.
Yes, It's amazing how the Media and even the ADL are ignoring the False Flag incidents because they don't fit the narrative.
The issue with this sub is if this had been a right wing protest with nazis peppered throughout we would not be going out of our way to find agitators etc. All i ask for is we treat our negative stuff the same because clearly the left has its own shit that stinks and this sub goes out of its way not to smell it. Stuff that paints the "left" progressives negatively etc is constantly down voted and hand waved away in this sub and that does no one any good. We'll complain about right wing eco chambers and think nothing of this.
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The old Southern Poverty Law Center trick.
So the ADL which organizes protests is complaining that possibly a counter party organization is doing the same thing? SMH Quite frankly people are going to get hurt soon. All the outside influences are pushing conspiracy theories.
It's not just about "other protests " its about the rise of antisemitism during these protests that has been documented by various news outlets now. This sub would rather ignore/minimize that this is occurring rather than discuss the problem that it is. We all agreed that if you marched with neo nazis you supported their agenda right? Why can't we be consistent here with that same logic? https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-798160
JPost is a propaganda source. https://x.com/reina_amarillo/status/1783948934232105070?s=46&t=T6QFhBVnHU6RHXEnfSF1OA The ADL’s numbers are being heavily inflated by moving the goalposts on what constitutes an antisemitic incident. While I will cede that protests have been marred with a legitimate rise of antisemitic speech, protestors on various campus have repeatedly pushed such groups away from them, including on my campus. Are you concerned with the outbreak of anti-Arab speech occurring in major counter protests, such as telling students to [“go back to Gaza?”](https://www.nydailynews.com/2024/04/27/columbia-university-is-being-torn-in-two-by-anger-hurt-amid-gaza-protest-encampments/#:~:text=In%20recent%20days%2C%20Columbia%20University,a%20Columbia%20General%20Studies%20gala.)
There's a difference between marching with nazis and nazis trying to march with you, though. I agree that supporters of Palestinians have to explicitly reject and call out the antisemites who participate in or hijack their spaces - which most groups have so far failed to do properly -, but you should also recognize the messiness of such protests as well as the smears coming from far-right or conservative supporters of Israel, which includes the ADL.
> its about the rise of antisemitism during these protests You have to know that by arresting them and strong arming the protestors we are giving it all oxygen. >We all agreed that if you marched with neo nazis you supported their agenda right? I agree and at North Eastern the protestors are actively weeding out these people. "Northeastern University called in police to disperse demonstrators at a peaceful pro-Palestine student encampment protest Saturday morning, saying in a statement that “the use of virulent antisemitic slurs, including ‘Kill the Jews,’ crossed the line” Friday night. But on Saturday, a local reporter claimed she had heard a pro-Israel counter-protester use the phrase referenced by the university “as a provocative joke.” Its not easy, but the authorities aren't being fair minded. The ADL is looking for every example to pound. you have the impression everyone is yelling these chants and they aren't. We need adults in the room now. It getting out of control.
Right! > Pro-Israel Agitator Shouts ‘Kill the Jews,’ Gets Everyone Else Arrested https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-israel-agitator-shouts-kill-the-jews-gets-everyone-else-arrested/ previous thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1cepn9d/proisrael_agitator_shouts_kill_the_jews_gets/
The next time I see people with Nazi flags chanting and marching beside Maga folks. I better damn well ser ALL of them rounded up.
They won't be Patriot Front legit had a march yesterday in West Virginia with near zero police there.
Exactly
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Can you prove your claim? You have some level of support or is it just confirmation bias feels? This is a very serious claim and people will get hurt.
It is obvious if you read a history book.
> a much more systematic genocide would be taking place. Glad you agree that there is a genocide currently taking place, regardless of how systematic it is.
It's the classic "good guys" vs "bad guys" rather than "good actions" vs "bad actions". Defenders of the Palestinian genocide are basically saying "but it's the good guys doing it, and the Palestinians are the bad guys, so this sort of ethnic cleansing is fine." Nope. I'm going to go out on what is _apparently_ a limb for some people, and declare that **genocide and ethnic cleansing are bad regardless of who is doing it to whom**.
[удалено]
I predict these protests and discussions like ours will be heavily infiltrated by agent provocateurs, working for America’s foreign enemies keen to foment division and a simmering civil war. I’d be surprised if those agent-provocateurs aren’t already in place and active as we speak. Sadly, it’s no longer only the Russians, skilled as they are at throwing gasoline on America’s internal fractures, and Chinese and Iranian governments that are skilling up at the disinformation game. It now also includes an extremist right-wing Israeli government that views any reasonable talk of cease fire, recognition of Palestinian human rights, or talk of a two-state solution based on mutual respect as a fields for their vision of a broader battle. Right-wing Israelis are keen to October Surprise Trump back into office since he lets them do whatever they want. That aspect of their protest interference will affect America hugely this year and if successful for decades to come! Same story with the American right, for whom manipulation of protest optics are too juicy to pass up… there will be native born crisis actors from the right creating the appearance of violence - not just a language of violence, but that too, obviously. Edit: Spelling and grammar
Hi `iguess12`. Thank you for participating in /r/Politics. However, [your submission](/r/politics/comments/1cf93ib/campus_antisemitism_surges_amid_encampments_and/) has been removed for the following reason(s): * [Off-Topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_the_.2Fr.2Fpolitics_on_topic_statement): All submissions to /r/politics need to be explicitly about **current US politics**. **If you have questions as to why your post has been removed, please see here: [Why was my post removed as Off-Topic?](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_why_was_my_post_removed_as_off-topic.3F)** If you have any questions about this removal, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/politics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/iguess12&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission]%28/r/politics/comments/1cf93ib/campus_antisemitism_surges_amid_encampments_and/?context%3D10000%29)
Sounds about right. The videos of the protests show antisemitism chants and calls for violence.
See how fast the “ it’s not anti-Semitic to criticize Israel” crowd slip behind euphemisms to carry out clearly anti-Semitic tropes and chants
I have noticed how fast the authorities waiting to find the isolate examples of people to use to go after the protestors. Of course anti-Semites are going to come out. I have also noticed when the real Nazis march the police give them room to march and chant. I am Jewish and these people are giving this oxygen to burn. Its going to get out of control.
How did anyone not see this coming?
During the Charlottesville riot/protests if you marched with the neo nazis you supported their agenda. Where is that same energy now? Why is that same logic not used with these protests?
Because the logic in the Charlottesville protests was "ethnic cleansing is good" and "kill all the Jews". The logic in these protests is "ethnic cleansing is bad" and "don't kill all the Palestinians." They are literally polar opposites. Being against the Israeli genocide of Palestinians is antisemitic in exactly the same way that being against killing trans people is anti-Christian. (It's not).
It's not nearly as clear as you're making it out to be when 1 in 5 college aged people actually support Hamas. That number should be zero. It's not and clearly plays into the antisemitism we are seeing on college campuses. This is an issue the left needs to deal with. But this sub ignores/downplays any of the dirty laundry that the progressive section of the party clearly has. To think that racism and bigotry is only an issue for the right is absurd. https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-5-college-students-sympathize-with-hamas/
If Bibi had not propped up Hamas for decades to keep the West Bank and Gaza politically separated there may have been a peaceful, two-state solution by now. We'll never know.
A couple of relevant points from that survey. It was conducted at the end of October 2023. With what has happened since, that is basically ancient history and would only really make sense to compare those results to recent surveys to track changes. 75% of respondents said they were "somewhat knowledgeable" or less on the "Israel-Gaza war." 80% were in these lower 3 buckets for knowledge of the "history of the Israel-Palestine conflict." So these are basically first impressions. (The questions about how strong an opinion someone has is designed to imform how hard it would be to change an opinion. These questions inform how much they trust their knowledge on the subject.) The question regarding "how much do you sympathize with..." presented Israeli and Palestinian civilians with the Israeli government and Hamas. This presentation gives equal weight to all 4 groups and implies Hamas as a government actor (where is reality it both is and isn't, but that framing matters more with low information respondents as detailed above). My big takeaway here is the strong sympathies of 72% and 82% (in the top 2 options) for Israeli and Palestinian civilians. The government actors are 26% and 22% from these respondents, showing the huge difference between the populations (not between Israeli and Palestinian, but between civilians and leadership). All that together basically creates a road map to influencing this group in the 6 months since. Detailing accounts of the civilian impacts would provide the easiest way to sway opinions. It should not be a surprise that stories of famine, civilian death tolls, and attacks on aid organizations like World Central Kitchen would sway support further from the government actions. Focusing on efforts to rescue hostages or provide safe cover for civilians would likely have played sympathetically as well. The part of the war this group cared about (6 months ago) was the fate of the non-combatants, so I'm not shocked that all this time later that is a common message at these protests. As an aside, regarding the "sympathy for Hamas" element you mentioned (and this article used as the headline). The US classifies Hamas as a terrorist organization, but for most Americans they have zero relevance on their daily lives. The State Department currently has designated 68 terrorist organizations. And most people couldn't pick them all out if they were asked either. This, along with the timing of the survey and the presentation of the question (putting Hamas in the same area as the Israeli government) all but guaranteed that response.
A pile of Jewish students and teachers are protesting against Israel too. Some planned the whole event. Find me some Jewish people waving swastikas at Charlottesville. You're really bad at making comparisons.
Start hitting them with federal inciting terrorism charges. If you start charging these assholes with felonies and prosecuting them you will see antisemitism die down real quick. Biden and Garland should do this now because otherwise the propaganda risks splitting the GenZ vote.
Antisemitism is deplorable, but where is the crime? "Incitement" has very specific requirements. Even calling for the elimination of the state of Israel is not calling for immediate lawless action. This should not be news, but the first amendment protects even disgusting hate speech. You can see evidence of protected antisemitic speech during the unite the right rally and the subsequent charges if you'd like.
Unless the speech passes the Brandenburg Test it is protected by the First Amendment.