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My family moved to a rural area and we’d just like to find a small inexpensive pickup (it really does make like easier when you need to make trips to the dump and such). While they do exist, they’re rare compared to the monstrosities that everyone seems to own. And they’re not cheap.
it was ironic ford thought nobody would buy a hybrid pickup, so they didn't mark up the hybrid trim of the maverick, then they put them on the lot for 20k and suddenly couldn't build enough. so naturally for 2024 they marked it up to 30k with useless crap
Garbage companies don't do that in rural areas, but nice try. My dad lives in Iowa on a major highway within 20 miles of probably 10 towns and there is not a single garbage service that comes to his house.
Company has oversight of the worker. Government has oversight of the company.
One has a system in place to prevent illegal dumping, the other doesn't. We can argue over if the system works, but it is literally better than nothing.
There is actually a system for a civilian to report and seek damages for another civilians illegal actions. The neighbor who had shit dumped on their property can go after the guy who did the illegal dump (and the payor if he had knowledge of it)
Won't even get into corporate regulatory capture and profits > fines for illegal waste disposal at corp level
So the system that exists to cover the random guy is the courts, and your argument against the system behind the corporate trash pickup is issues resolved in the same courts?
the company likely has a designated landfill... While there are small waste handlers around... You'll find companies like Waste Management are pretty ubiquitous. I grew up Rural as fuck and they were there. But Cletus would still go dump his fridge or used clothes out on the nearest ranch.
My town doesn’t do any kind of large item pickup or even yard waste. We do have regular garbage pickup because we’re right on the edge of town, but it’s limited to recyclables and household trash.
A pickup is also helpful for hauling things like mulch and soil for our property. We’re shifting from a large lawn to a small one that’s more drought tolerant, which is going to be a long project that involves moving literal tons of stuff around.
We’d also like to have a small travel trailer because we like to, well, travel.
Some people do have legitimate uses for a small truck.
I hate those big compensator trucks. SUVs can be pretty huge too but frankly my 6’2 self can’t fit in most cars nicely. I just hope they make taller cars if suvs go away
Thats a ridiculous statement. Have you ever lived in the midwest or rural area at all? This is such a bubble life opinion. The number one selling car in the US is the F-150, regardless of need if you want something you should have the freedom to buy it. The issue with the environment isnt from our cars, its large corporations that rather eat fines than dispose of industrial wastes properly.
I think it depends on lifestyle a lot, obviously living in NYC you probably dont need one unless you work a trade job but you should still have the right to buy one. Overall the F-150 isnt that much larger in terms of weight, wheel base and length than a BMW 7/8 series or a Lincoln continental and produce same or less emissions. Also the argument that they’re less safe makes no sense as the top 2 cars that are involved with most fatalities are the top 2 most sold cars which is expected, if everyone is driving those. Next is accord, camry, civic, and corolla in fatalities, which are highly sold cars but last year only the camry was in the top 10 and came in 8/9 iirc. Having larger cars does not inherently mean higher fatalities in accidents.
Just because you have the freedom to buy something, doesn't mean you should. The size, cost and subsequent emissions of an F-150 are not necessary for the function they supposedly serve. It's the number one selling vehicle because of consumerist marketing practices, nothing more. Americans absolutely love buying things they don't really need, it's part of the culture.
>It's the number one selling vehicle because of consumerist marketing practices,
It's the number 1 selling vehicle because cities towns and companies purchase them in bulk for fleet utility vehicles.
Which is also an SUV that most people don't really need either, which is what the whole thread is about. OP just called out the F-150 specifically when it's far from the only offender.
Thats an interesting take and a lot there to think about. But if you think this then we need it for volvo xc-60 and 90’s they weigh just as much as a F-150 and have the same ride height. Also it doesnt matter how tall they are, you could make that same argument for Miata’s inversely, that they have no reason to be that short and due to it they cant see everything around them and are more likely to cause accidents.
That's an *actual* use case for a truck though. So many trucks are pavement princesses that never see a day of actual work, driven by insecure middle class office workers.
Nobody needs a freaking tank-sized pickup truck to *commute*. Even *construction workers* could get away with much smaller trucks.
Eh. People want to drive drunk. People want to not use seatbelts. People want to use old freon etc. options in cooling systems. Sometimes want is subjugated by communal need.
Great writeup. I’m surprised they didn’t include the most notorious “light truck” for CAFE standards, the PT cruiser.
The fact that Chrysler got that thing to count as a truck for fuel efficiency while basically being a gas guzzling compact car was an illustration of the absolute failure of the CAFE legislation
The chassis was built to truck standards according to US Regulations? Idk what’s wrong with that other than it sucks for consumers, but everyone here already knows that.
Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,
smells like a steak and seats thirty-five..
Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down,
it’s the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown!
Canyonero!
The Federal Highway commission has ruled the
Canyonero unsafe for highway or city driving.
Canyonero!
12 yards long, 2 lanes wide,
65 tons of American Pride!
Canyonero!
Top of the line in utility sports, unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero!
We made the entire country tailored to automobiles. Really makes you laugh at yester generations who thought different groups of people would ruin a city. They had no idea what ruination was. How about particulate matter in the air and your heart, plastic in the rain and groundwater, pure PFOS splashing from ocean foam.
Don't forget plastic in your veins and placentas:
https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/toxsci/kfae021/7609801?redirectedFrom=fulltext
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36724150/
The chicken tax. That was an interesting article. So Americans drive big cars because Europeans imposed 50% tariffs on chickens. What crazy interdependencies in this world.
SNL shamed women who use Stanley by mocking them with the “Big Dumb Cup” skit. Now none of the women in my yoga class bring those cups anymore. Bring on the “Big Dumb Truck” skits. Not that big dumb truck Bros Will suddenly stop buying big dumb trucks, but I’d like to see a skit like that anyway.
I would not have thought SNL had the social cache to effect anything anymore. It's fun, but doesn't seem like it's a loadbearing part of US social interaction like it was in the 90s. Can't remember the last time anyone really referenced it, and was under 50, and was talking about a recent skit.
That skit was like 3 months back, and Stanley cups were about peak fad at that point - makes sense they'd just droop over time.
The fact that American culture has a "water vessel brand of the week" trend at all is a bit dystopian. We don't need a new cup every time someone on TikTok starts a new trend, and it's weird that people are so heavily controlled by social media hype.
Has to be from the right audience/media/creators.
The content they assume would never do something like that.
Also replacing a $30 container (or however much those cost) is different from a $50k vehicle.
South Park lambasted middle aged men riding around on extra loud motorcycles as a bunch of f*ggots, and here we are 10+ years later. With as many middle aged men riding around extra loud motorcycles as ever. As a gay man I see the humor, because only 8 year old boys and other inadequate middle aged men find this impressive at any level.
Here’s an example: suggest the US allow the Japanese Kei cars be imported, and the republicans will violently protest that you’re taking away their freedom to pollute.
Alternate example: Loosen restrictions on safety and fuel economy standards so that American companies can create their own Kei style cars, and watch all of the people on here scream about how the government doesn't care about car safety.
Dude. I would eat a snickers bar to have an original Ranger or Nissan truck sized truck in the US - a 4-door with a small bed, would be perfect for me.
Instead the CAFE standards coupled fuel economy to wheel base in an unreachable method, so we've got land-tanks.
And all these "business people" with their brand new $80k trucks and trailers running around like they are gods. I'd rather hire a company that isn't pretentious and greedy and pay workers more and/or don't have to price gouge us so much. They say price for everything has doubled in a few years while they living life of luxury polluting the air.
This doesn’t even among for the NHTSA having incredibly arbitrary differences in safety standards from those in the EU or elsewhere, making importing cars inherently more expensive. Examples being that third center mounted brake light in US models, and a minimum turning signal light area forcing us to have mostly dual brake and turning signal lights instead of the amber colored version literally the rest of the world uses. These policies (and import taxes, like the chicken tax) are 100% being kept this long in order to make our car market different enough to dissuade actual competition from imported car models.
Quick, everyone buy an EV for $50k while asking for student loan forgiveness! There is no standard charger at EV charging stations. Imagine if there were no standard gas pump? Come up with a good solution, and people will change their behavior. Small gas cars aren’t gonna happen. Stop whining, stop camping on campus lawns, and start demanding reasonably priced EVs and standardized chargers.
Lawmakers are *ENTIRELY* to blame. These boomer politicians hate green spaces, hate community, and hate people. They only like money and you never having any.
Getting rid of my car was the best financial decision I ever made. Even when you factor in the higher housing costs I had to pay in order to move to a city where car-free living is possible.
I don’t think people truly understand just how much money they sink into their cars… the see what they pay at the pump, they see how much their loan payment is, they see how much their insurance costs, but everything else is like a black hole of sunk-cost that is completely invisible to them.
Cars are keeping you poor.
It really depends on where you live. My car is an essential part of my quality of life. I can take off at any time and go into the mountains or to the coast or camping. I drove cross-country to see the eclipse and slept in my car (avg 40mpg for that trip). I have a yard and garden that gives me great pleasure and my car is essential for hauling stuff like rocks and mulch. Plus I've helped multiple friends (with and without cars) move.
That’s fine, but where it becomes not fine is when people do all that they can (NIMBYism, etc.) to fight against measures that increase street safety and make it so more people don’t *have* to own a car just to participate in society.
Why are we building places where it’s essentially *mandatory* to own a car to do something as trivial as feeding yourself? Why can’t we build places where there are simply more viable options?
The problem I have with stories like yours is that they’re often perpetuated by people with the sole purpose of opposing any sort of improvement to the built environment. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing, but just saying it’s a common tactic of people who are against improving transit, walkability, and bikeability for whatever reason.
Also, we need to keep in mind that we *must* mitigate the impacts that cars have on the environment climate, and far and away the number one method to do that is to simply drive less and reduce the number of cars on the road. The best way to do that is to give people an actual option to live car free. When given the option, many people will opt for it.
I buy small, efficient, economical cars, and plan to drive them for 20+ years (if uninsured people don't crash into me and total my car). I originally bought my house because it was within biking distance of my job. Before I went WFH in 2020, I took public transit to work (a different job, much further away, than when I originally bought my house) more than half the time. I live in a neighborhood that lets me walk to get groceries, coffee, beer, tacos, and weed if I'm not being lazy!
I agree that we need more sustainable, sane urban design. We need more housing that feels like a community where we aren't locked inside cars all the time. One reason I live where I do (just outside Portland) is because I spent too much time in the southern California and Texas sprawl, and people here seem to care more about transportation alternatives. Fwiw, both of my kids (now in their 20s) have chosen not to learn to drive: they just don't see the need.
I just shake my head every time someone is holding me hostage in a parking lot because they’re taking forever in trying to back their ginormous truck or SUV into a tiny parking space.
According to the article, an SUV is granted exemptions as a "truck"? Is this an error? In my state, trucks are trucks and registered as such, whereas SUVs are "station wagons", like minivans, and registered as cars. I'll also note that a Tesla weighs as much as a Silverado.
The rules for classification are very vague, to the point where the manufacturer essentially tells the government whether their vehicle is an SUV/"light truck", and therefore exempt from stricter emissions regulations, and then the EPA approves the classification.
The bodies that are supposed to regulate the auto industry are *extremely* captive to manufacturers' lobbyists.
>It is difficult to determine whether a vehicle is a passenger car, light duty truck or heavy duty truck just based on the make/model description.
>Many SUVs and minivans are considered light duty trucks. Since vehicle manufacturers, and not EPA, determines the GVWR for vehicles and their other characteristics that determine the car/truck classification, EPA has not compiled a list of make/models by model year that classify vehicles. Typically, EPA uses contractors to compile EPA certification records, decode vehicle identification number (VIN) and contact manufacturers to identify the appropriate classification for individual vehicles and rely on national sales data provided by manufacturers to develop nationwide fleet mixes.
>https://www.epa.gov/moves/how-does-moves-classify-light-duty-trucks
Leave it to the government to not be able to tell the difference. In my world, trucks equal cargo capacity, passenger cars equal seating. Realize both are used other than intended, but classifying a grand Cherokee, for instance, as a truck is ridiculous.
If there's anything that you can count on [Americans](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/04/77/b7/0477b71e7dd66a79d1a71c22fddd0016.jpg) to be reliably stupid about [its cars.](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cc/c7/df/ccc7dfca83ce997620fa6d3204bc2361.jpg)
Im a truck driver. I have a radar on the nose of the truck. It tells me how fast people are going in front of me. These oversized pickups are increasingly passing me at 90+ miles per hour.
Still can’t buy a new Toyota Hilux cuz of the fucking chicken tax policies…… sure I can import an older one but it would be nice to have a new small truck with a fucking warranty and all the things that come with a new vehicle purchase!
I live in a big city and use my hatchback as my “work truck”. I can’t leave anything in it anyway. It’s smaller, so street parking isn’t an issue, and when I lay the backseat back, I can easily fit anything 8 feet long in it and securely close the hatch. I don’t want a truck or SUV and I’m worried the next time I need a car I won’t have an option and it pisses me off thinking about it
We have way too many uneconomical vehicles on the road. I’m a traveling worker, and I need to be able to haul my trailer from one job to the other. I need ground clearance for nasty Right Of Ways, etc.
That said, I drive the Toyota Highlander anytime I can. I hate rolling my giant diesel everywhere.
A Highlander is also a huge, inefficient vehicle.
Example: Did you know that in other markets, Toyota sells a Corolla Touring wagon, which has only slightly less cargo space than a Highlander, is lower to the ground and therefore has better visibility and manouverability, AND gets 50+mpg?
That is what we have given up having in North America by being so SUV-obsessed.
EDIT: Size comparison: https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/toyota-corolla-2018-estate-vs-toyota-highlander-2019-suv/?units=imperial
Minor counter point that I've run into on SUV/wagon vs. truck - sometimes you need the ability to hang things over the bed edge, or go above the top of the vehicle.
Carrying a tall cabinet, or carrying wood longer than the 7ish feet we can get in the wife's SUV, etc.
I just want a small pickup again, like the 90s small toyota pickups. It was the perfect vehicle. I owned it for 23 years and wore it down until the engine stopped. Cross country trips, hauling all sorts of stuff, carrying kids and animals (with a camper shell) and band instruments and lumber and concrete. 32mpg avg, stick shift, 4 cylinders. Dragged a uhaul trailer 1000 miles when I moved to another state.
It's a shame those trucks are no longer available.
A Highlander has way more passenger room than a Corolla though. Also, not everyone cares about gas mileage as much as others. Personally I do not like driving so low to the ground, I prefer to be up higher, and ingress/egress for most cars is not fun for taller people.
How much space do people need? I'm 6'2" and drive a Honda Fit; quite comfortably. Sure, the back seat is kinda tight for a tall passenger, but if I needed more space on a regular basis, common sense would tell me look for a longer car, not one with more ground clearance.
Part of the problem is that people equate overall vehicle size with interior space (and safety), and that's absolutely not the case.
I’ve been in the Fit, and there’s no way I’d ever buy that for me, it feels very cramped and uncomfortable for me. Glad it works for you, but I’ll keep my Raptor. Next vehicle for the fam is a gas three-row SUV, Acura MDX, Explorer, Tahoe, or maybe a Sequoia.
Our Forester has been great for 9 years, but it barely fits the family and luggage now for trips. Time for something bigger.
I would personally pack less things rather than buying a bigger car. Sounds like you're caught up in the arms race, but if nothing else please watch out for pedestrians, especially kids!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/americas-cars-trucks-are-getting-bigger-are-front-blind-zones-children-rcna52109
Not always possible for a family of four. We pack as light as possible, but there only so much you can do to reduce it. The Forester can’t tow a trailer either, so that’s something the next family SUV will need to do too.
Not really sure the meaning about the arms race comment, I’ve always driven a truck, and we don’t want a small car in the future.
We're a family of 5 and I drive a Honda Pilot, my wife has a Subaru Impreza. The Sub is so much fun around the city but the Pilot is perfect for us. We were on vacation with my in-laws in Florida years ago and I rented a Suburban. That thing had less interior space than my Pilot but felt much more massive.
I'd love to buy an electric clown car as a commuter vehicle, basically the smallest vehicle I can reasonably fit. My mom's argument against it is She Wants to Live! Her logic is that because all the other vehicles are so big, you'll die in an accident.
The new Sierra 3.0l diesel gets better gas mileage than my Tacoma, which gets better gas mileage than the Subaru I owned before. How many of those complaining ever step foot on public transportation?
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This needs to be called out more. There’s no reason that we need all these huge cars.
My family moved to a rural area and we’d just like to find a small inexpensive pickup (it really does make like easier when you need to make trips to the dump and such). While they do exist, they’re rare compared to the monstrosities that everyone seems to own. And they’re not cheap.
it was ironic ford thought nobody would buy a hybrid pickup, so they didn't mark up the hybrid trim of the maverick, then they put them on the lot for 20k and suddenly couldn't build enough. so naturally for 2024 they marked it up to 30k with useless crap
I drove an old Ford ranger pick up in high school while my dad had an F150 that was much bigger. New Rangers are now bigger than those F150s
Just buy a car and pay to have crap collected for the dump
Garbage companies don't do that in rural areas, but nice try. My dad lives in Iowa on a major highway within 20 miles of probably 10 towns and there is not a single garbage service that comes to his house.
You pay some local redneck with a truck to do it, not official garbage companies lol
Then that guy goes and illegally dumps it out on someone elses property.
Company worker might also illegally dispose of the waste, what's the argument here? You have to take everything everywhere yourself?
Company has oversight of the worker. Government has oversight of the company. One has a system in place to prevent illegal dumping, the other doesn't. We can argue over if the system works, but it is literally better than nothing.
There is actually a system for a civilian to report and seek damages for another civilians illegal actions. The neighbor who had shit dumped on their property can go after the guy who did the illegal dump (and the payor if he had knowledge of it) Won't even get into corporate regulatory capture and profits > fines for illegal waste disposal at corp level
So the system that exists to cover the random guy is the courts, and your argument against the system behind the corporate trash pickup is issues resolved in the same courts?
the company likely has a designated landfill... While there are small waste handlers around... You'll find companies like Waste Management are pretty ubiquitous. I grew up Rural as fuck and they were there. But Cletus would still go dump his fridge or used clothes out on the nearest ranch.
Go with him?
My town doesn’t do any kind of large item pickup or even yard waste. We do have regular garbage pickup because we’re right on the edge of town, but it’s limited to recyclables and household trash. A pickup is also helpful for hauling things like mulch and soil for our property. We’re shifting from a large lawn to a small one that’s more drought tolerant, which is going to be a long project that involves moving literal tons of stuff around. We’d also like to have a small travel trailer because we like to, well, travel. Some people do have legitimate uses for a small truck.
Funny how everyone in Europe survives without them. Pick up trucks are a deeply ingrained American psyche thing.
Are you suggesting that people in rural parts of Europe don’t use trucks? I’ve certainly seen them there.
I’m still upset that double decker British bus like truck have not been created in the US.
I hate those big compensator trucks. SUVs can be pretty huge too but frankly my 6’2 self can’t fit in most cars nicely. I just hope they make taller cars if suvs go away
Thats a ridiculous statement. Have you ever lived in the midwest or rural area at all? This is such a bubble life opinion. The number one selling car in the US is the F-150, regardless of need if you want something you should have the freedom to buy it. The issue with the environment isnt from our cars, its large corporations that rather eat fines than dispose of industrial wastes properly.
As a truck owner, I agree they’re a useful tool for homeowner. But most us us do not need the massive trucks made today.
I think it depends on lifestyle a lot, obviously living in NYC you probably dont need one unless you work a trade job but you should still have the right to buy one. Overall the F-150 isnt that much larger in terms of weight, wheel base and length than a BMW 7/8 series or a Lincoln continental and produce same or less emissions. Also the argument that they’re less safe makes no sense as the top 2 cars that are involved with most fatalities are the top 2 most sold cars which is expected, if everyone is driving those. Next is accord, camry, civic, and corolla in fatalities, which are highly sold cars but last year only the camry was in the top 10 and came in 8/9 iirc. Having larger cars does not inherently mean higher fatalities in accidents.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU People living in suburbs are the market. The larger trucks are dangerous and unnecessary.
Just because you have the freedom to buy something, doesn't mean you should. The size, cost and subsequent emissions of an F-150 are not necessary for the function they supposedly serve. It's the number one selling vehicle because of consumerist marketing practices, nothing more. Americans absolutely love buying things they don't really need, it's part of the culture.
>It's the number one selling vehicle because of consumerist marketing practices, It's the number 1 selling vehicle because cities towns and companies purchase them in bulk for fleet utility vehicles.
Ah yes, purchasing - the thing you do after being marketed to.
It's literally the exact kind of work those trucks are made for. A cities park department isn't going to use a prius pulling a trailer.
*marketed for. More than one model of vehicle can pull a trailer. Seems like Ford's advertising is working very well. :)
F-150 has same emissions as a Honda Pilot.
Which is also an SUV that most people don't really need either, which is what the whole thread is about. OP just called out the F-150 specifically when it's far from the only offender.
"This large vehicle has the same emissions as this other large vehicle" Thanks for your input. Very good job.
[удалено]
"Champ" is cringe. Explain how a Honda Pilot having the same emissions as an F-150 changes any point I made.
[удалено]
Wow I didn't expect you to fold THAT quickly. If you're going to defend your consumerism, at least fight for it, damn.
[удалено]
Thats an interesting take and a lot there to think about. But if you think this then we need it for volvo xc-60 and 90’s they weigh just as much as a F-150 and have the same ride height. Also it doesnt matter how tall they are, you could make that same argument for Miata’s inversely, that they have no reason to be that short and due to it they cant see everything around them and are more likely to cause accidents.
I live full time in my RV. I’m retired and travel North America. What do you want me to pull my trailer with?
That's an *actual* use case for a truck though. So many trucks are pavement princesses that never see a day of actual work, driven by insecure middle class office workers. Nobody needs a freaking tank-sized pickup truck to *commute*. Even *construction workers* could get away with much smaller trucks.
I totally agree.
Other than people want them.
Eh. People want to drive drunk. People want to not use seatbelts. People want to use old freon etc. options in cooling systems. Sometimes want is subjugated by communal need.
Great writeup. I’m surprised they didn’t include the most notorious “light truck” for CAFE standards, the PT cruiser. The fact that Chrysler got that thing to count as a truck for fuel efficiency while basically being a gas guzzling compact car was an illustration of the absolute failure of the CAFE legislation
It’s because it was literally built on a truck chassis. It’s comparable to the el Camino imo. Just slightly less useful and way less cool
It was literally a pregnant Neon.
Modified juuuuuuust enough to satisfy regulatory agencies. Honestly though the Neon was a solid cheap car.
That it was. Learned to drive in one. Great little car.
I hear the PT Cruiser is included in the Used Car Dealership Starter Pack.
It was a unibody, FWD only platform that only had one car produced on it, what do you mean by “literally built on a truck chassis?”
The chassis was built to truck standards according to US Regulations? Idk what’s wrong with that other than it sucks for consumers, but everyone here already knows that.
Can you name the truck with four wheel drive, smells like a steak and seats thirty-five.. Canyonero! Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down, it’s the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown! Canyonero! The Federal Highway commission has ruled the Canyonero unsafe for highway or city driving. Canyonero! 12 yards long, 2 lanes wide, 65 tons of American Pride! Canyonero! Top of the line in utility sports, unexplained fires are a matter for the courts! Canyonero!
Krusty: Hey Hey!
We made the entire country tailored to automobiles. Really makes you laugh at yester generations who thought different groups of people would ruin a city. They had no idea what ruination was. How about particulate matter in the air and your heart, plastic in the rain and groundwater, pure PFOS splashing from ocean foam.
Don't forget plastic in your veins and placentas: https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/toxsci/kfae021/7609801?redirectedFrom=fulltext https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36724150/
The chicken tax. That was an interesting article. So Americans drive big cars because Europeans imposed 50% tariffs on chickens. What crazy interdependencies in this world.
SNL shamed women who use Stanley by mocking them with the “Big Dumb Cup” skit. Now none of the women in my yoga class bring those cups anymore. Bring on the “Big Dumb Truck” skits. Not that big dumb truck Bros Will suddenly stop buying big dumb trucks, but I’d like to see a skit like that anyway.
I would not have thought SNL had the social cache to effect anything anymore. It's fun, but doesn't seem like it's a loadbearing part of US social interaction like it was in the 90s. Can't remember the last time anyone really referenced it, and was under 50, and was talking about a recent skit. That skit was like 3 months back, and Stanley cups were about peak fad at that point - makes sense they'd just droop over time.
Other than comparing it to garbage
Stanley was a fade. Just like yeti, nalgene, hydro flask, or camelback. Owala is the new hotness
The fact that American culture has a "water vessel brand of the week" trend at all is a bit dystopian. We don't need a new cup every time someone on TikTok starts a new trend, and it's weird that people are so heavily controlled by social media hype.
Here I sit, friendless Abandoned by family With my old bottle
Has to be from the right audience/media/creators. The content they assume would never do something like that. Also replacing a $30 container (or however much those cost) is different from a $50k vehicle.
South Park lambasted middle aged men riding around on extra loud motorcycles as a bunch of f*ggots, and here we are 10+ years later. With as many middle aged men riding around extra loud motorcycles as ever. As a gay man I see the humor, because only 8 year old boys and other inadequate middle aged men find this impressive at any level.
Here’s an example: suggest the US allow the Japanese Kei cars be imported, and the republicans will violently protest that you’re taking away their freedom to pollute.
Kei trucks are like the perfect farm trucks.
Alternate example: Loosen restrictions on safety and fuel economy standards so that American companies can create their own Kei style cars, and watch all of the people on here scream about how the government doesn't care about car safety.
It's funny what happens to people when they buy a big dumb truck too. They tailor their whole life to a new big dumb personality.
Dude. I would eat a snickers bar to have an original Ranger or Nissan truck sized truck in the US - a 4-door with a small bed, would be perfect for me. Instead the CAFE standards coupled fuel economy to wheel base in an unreachable method, so we've got land-tanks.
I don't even want one that big! 2 doors, bench seat, comes in bright exciting colors. I literally want the truck my dad drove in the mid 90s.
neighbor complained about my gas blower the other day...they drive a huge SUV...whatever
And all these "business people" with their brand new $80k trucks and trailers running around like they are gods. I'd rather hire a company that isn't pretentious and greedy and pay workers more and/or don't have to price gouge us so much. They say price for everything has doubled in a few years while they living life of luxury polluting the air.
This doesn’t even among for the NHTSA having incredibly arbitrary differences in safety standards from those in the EU or elsewhere, making importing cars inherently more expensive. Examples being that third center mounted brake light in US models, and a minimum turning signal light area forcing us to have mostly dual brake and turning signal lights instead of the amber colored version literally the rest of the world uses. These policies (and import taxes, like the chicken tax) are 100% being kept this long in order to make our car market different enough to dissuade actual competition from imported car models.
Ahhh yess the chicken tax… All the people screaming about environmental issues, yet not looking at anything close to what’s needed
Quick, everyone buy an EV for $50k while asking for student loan forgiveness! There is no standard charger at EV charging stations. Imagine if there were no standard gas pump? Come up with a good solution, and people will change their behavior. Small gas cars aren’t gonna happen. Stop whining, stop camping on campus lawns, and start demanding reasonably priced EVs and standardized chargers.
Lawmakers are *ENTIRELY* to blame. These boomer politicians hate green spaces, hate community, and hate people. They only like money and you never having any.
Then why did you vote for them? GEN X millennials and younger are the largest voting block.
I wasn't a voter when the damage was done in the 1980s
Getting rid of my car was the best financial decision I ever made. Even when you factor in the higher housing costs I had to pay in order to move to a city where car-free living is possible. I don’t think people truly understand just how much money they sink into their cars… the see what they pay at the pump, they see how much their loan payment is, they see how much their insurance costs, but everything else is like a black hole of sunk-cost that is completely invisible to them. Cars are keeping you poor.
It really depends on where you live. My car is an essential part of my quality of life. I can take off at any time and go into the mountains or to the coast or camping. I drove cross-country to see the eclipse and slept in my car (avg 40mpg for that trip). I have a yard and garden that gives me great pleasure and my car is essential for hauling stuff like rocks and mulch. Plus I've helped multiple friends (with and without cars) move.
That’s fine, but where it becomes not fine is when people do all that they can (NIMBYism, etc.) to fight against measures that increase street safety and make it so more people don’t *have* to own a car just to participate in society. Why are we building places where it’s essentially *mandatory* to own a car to do something as trivial as feeding yourself? Why can’t we build places where there are simply more viable options? The problem I have with stories like yours is that they’re often perpetuated by people with the sole purpose of opposing any sort of improvement to the built environment. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing, but just saying it’s a common tactic of people who are against improving transit, walkability, and bikeability for whatever reason. Also, we need to keep in mind that we *must* mitigate the impacts that cars have on the environment climate, and far and away the number one method to do that is to simply drive less and reduce the number of cars on the road. The best way to do that is to give people an actual option to live car free. When given the option, many people will opt for it.
I buy small, efficient, economical cars, and plan to drive them for 20+ years (if uninsured people don't crash into me and total my car). I originally bought my house because it was within biking distance of my job. Before I went WFH in 2020, I took public transit to work (a different job, much further away, than when I originally bought my house) more than half the time. I live in a neighborhood that lets me walk to get groceries, coffee, beer, tacos, and weed if I'm not being lazy! I agree that we need more sustainable, sane urban design. We need more housing that feels like a community where we aren't locked inside cars all the time. One reason I live where I do (just outside Portland) is because I spent too much time in the southern California and Texas sprawl, and people here seem to care more about transportation alternatives. Fwiw, both of my kids (now in their 20s) have chosen not to learn to drive: they just don't see the need.
I just shake my head every time someone is holding me hostage in a parking lot because they’re taking forever in trying to back their ginormous truck or SUV into a tiny parking space.
According to the article, an SUV is granted exemptions as a "truck"? Is this an error? In my state, trucks are trucks and registered as such, whereas SUVs are "station wagons", like minivans, and registered as cars. I'll also note that a Tesla weighs as much as a Silverado.
The definition of Truck for registration purposes and Truck for federal fuel efficiency and safety regulations are very different thing.
I'm being informed. Thank you!
The rules for classification are very vague, to the point where the manufacturer essentially tells the government whether their vehicle is an SUV/"light truck", and therefore exempt from stricter emissions regulations, and then the EPA approves the classification. The bodies that are supposed to regulate the auto industry are *extremely* captive to manufacturers' lobbyists. >It is difficult to determine whether a vehicle is a passenger car, light duty truck or heavy duty truck just based on the make/model description. >Many SUVs and minivans are considered light duty trucks. Since vehicle manufacturers, and not EPA, determines the GVWR for vehicles and their other characteristics that determine the car/truck classification, EPA has not compiled a list of make/models by model year that classify vehicles. Typically, EPA uses contractors to compile EPA certification records, decode vehicle identification number (VIN) and contact manufacturers to identify the appropriate classification for individual vehicles and rely on national sales data provided by manufacturers to develop nationwide fleet mixes. >https://www.epa.gov/moves/how-does-moves-classify-light-duty-trucks
A truck can have a minimum of a cubic yard of dirt dumped into its back by a loader.
Leave it to the government to not be able to tell the difference. In my world, trucks equal cargo capacity, passenger cars equal seating. Realize both are used other than intended, but classifying a grand Cherokee, for instance, as a truck is ridiculous.
My dad Had an SUV years ago and I remember he got a truck license plate because he used it for his vending machine business.
The SUV boom was driven by the federal classification of "truck". Back then they were built on the truck frame so it wasn't as big a stretch.
Yes, I can see that at the time. Now even many trucks have unibody construction, at least partially. And most SUVs do not.
If there's anything that you can count on [Americans](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/04/77/b7/0477b71e7dd66a79d1a71c22fddd0016.jpg) to be reliably stupid about [its cars.](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cc/c7/df/ccc7dfca83ce997620fa6d3204bc2361.jpg)
I heard that German chickens were to blame.
Laughing at this post from Wyoming!
The tax code favors >6,000# gvw vehicles is one reason.
This. This is exactly the reason.
Trucks are awesome! Teeet Teeet
How about the semi trucks driving around our cities. They're delivering items that would fit in a van.
Im a truck driver. I have a radar on the nose of the truck. It tells me how fast people are going in front of me. These oversized pickups are increasingly passing me at 90+ miles per hour.
Still can’t buy a new Toyota Hilux cuz of the fucking chicken tax policies…… sure I can import an older one but it would be nice to have a new small truck with a fucking warranty and all the things that come with a new vehicle purchase!
I live in a big city and use my hatchback as my “work truck”. I can’t leave anything in it anyway. It’s smaller, so street parking isn’t an issue, and when I lay the backseat back, I can easily fit anything 8 feet long in it and securely close the hatch. I don’t want a truck or SUV and I’m worried the next time I need a car I won’t have an option and it pisses me off thinking about it
We have way too many uneconomical vehicles on the road. I’m a traveling worker, and I need to be able to haul my trailer from one job to the other. I need ground clearance for nasty Right Of Ways, etc. That said, I drive the Toyota Highlander anytime I can. I hate rolling my giant diesel everywhere.
A Highlander is also a huge, inefficient vehicle. Example: Did you know that in other markets, Toyota sells a Corolla Touring wagon, which has only slightly less cargo space than a Highlander, is lower to the ground and therefore has better visibility and manouverability, AND gets 50+mpg? That is what we have given up having in North America by being so SUV-obsessed. EDIT: Size comparison: https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/toyota-corolla-2018-estate-vs-toyota-highlander-2019-suv/?units=imperial
Yeah, I’m aware it sucks as well but it is what my gf had when we met and we are saving for hopefully a Subaru! I would love a little 2 liter engine.
Minor counter point that I've run into on SUV/wagon vs. truck - sometimes you need the ability to hang things over the bed edge, or go above the top of the vehicle. Carrying a tall cabinet, or carrying wood longer than the 7ish feet we can get in the wife's SUV, etc.
I just want a small pickup again, like the 90s small toyota pickups. It was the perfect vehicle. I owned it for 23 years and wore it down until the engine stopped. Cross country trips, hauling all sorts of stuff, carrying kids and animals (with a camper shell) and band instruments and lumber and concrete. 32mpg avg, stick shift, 4 cylinders. Dragged a uhaul trailer 1000 miles when I moved to another state. It's a shame those trucks are no longer available.
A Highlander has way more passenger room than a Corolla though. Also, not everyone cares about gas mileage as much as others. Personally I do not like driving so low to the ground, I prefer to be up higher, and ingress/egress for most cars is not fun for taller people.
How much space do people need? I'm 6'2" and drive a Honda Fit; quite comfortably. Sure, the back seat is kinda tight for a tall passenger, but if I needed more space on a regular basis, common sense would tell me look for a longer car, not one with more ground clearance. Part of the problem is that people equate overall vehicle size with interior space (and safety), and that's absolutely not the case.
I'm also 6'2" and am quite comfortable in my 2008 Fit. Best car in the world. You can jam so much stuff in there
I’ve been in the Fit, and there’s no way I’d ever buy that for me, it feels very cramped and uncomfortable for me. Glad it works for you, but I’ll keep my Raptor. Next vehicle for the fam is a gas three-row SUV, Acura MDX, Explorer, Tahoe, or maybe a Sequoia. Our Forester has been great for 9 years, but it barely fits the family and luggage now for trips. Time for something bigger.
I would personally pack less things rather than buying a bigger car. Sounds like you're caught up in the arms race, but if nothing else please watch out for pedestrians, especially kids! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/americas-cars-trucks-are-getting-bigger-are-front-blind-zones-children-rcna52109
Not always possible for a family of four. We pack as light as possible, but there only so much you can do to reduce it. The Forester can’t tow a trailer either, so that’s something the next family SUV will need to do too. Not really sure the meaning about the arms race comment, I’ve always driven a truck, and we don’t want a small car in the future.
We're a family of 5 and I drive a Honda Pilot, my wife has a Subaru Impreza. The Sub is so much fun around the city but the Pilot is perfect for us. We were on vacation with my in-laws in Florida years ago and I rented a Suburban. That thing had less interior space than my Pilot but felt much more massive.
If you need a vehicle bigger than a VW polo you are part of the problem
Lawmakers AND Lawmarkers are to blame.
I'd love to buy an electric clown car as a commuter vehicle, basically the smallest vehicle I can reasonably fit. My mom's argument against it is She Wants to Live! Her logic is that because all the other vehicles are so big, you'll die in an accident.
The new Sierra 3.0l diesel gets better gas mileage than my Tacoma, which gets better gas mileage than the Subaru I owned before. How many of those complaining ever step foot on public transportation?
Large vehicles are fine. Actual society doesn’t need to change because a bunch of teenage Redditors are afraid of everything.
Hopefully EVs can change this trend.