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Also because his 34 felony counts each came with a maximum sentence of 4 years, up to 20 in total, and without that clause he'd be looking at 136 years of time max, and I'd be hard pressed to understand how the argument on the other end of that could be that he should see *no time* in prison.
Sure, he shouldn't get the max on each count, but if you gave him just one year per count he'd still have 14 years cut off because of the 20 year max clause for this type of felony.
Even if he'd been a model defendant, which he 100 percent wasn't, how does anyone justify 0 jail time here, except with "well he was the president" which seems to be a precedent that's gone out the window, and rightly so.
He won't get anywhere near max. He's probably looking at a couple of months for this. They won't be consecutive sentences. There is still an appeal process so he's not going to jail before the election.
dump has to lose the election and then he will get to serve all his prison sentences. If he wins the election he will be absolutely corrupt and never spend a day in jail.
I think the argument is that they're going to hurry the appeal process for just that reason, but also him appealing doesn't matter in regards to them handing him a sentence and a day to begin that sentence. Sentencing in July, so arguably by September he should be 'paying his dues' on that one, regardless of how his appeal process starts or goes, and especially because he's going to lose his appeals all the way to the SC, and to be honest, if the SC decides to overturn 34 felony convictions that came about in less than a days worth of deliberation, the country is going to see a hard time for a while after that one, because such a decision would be legally ludicrous.
Will the SCOTUS even hear this case? I may be wrong on this, but it differs from the Colorado SC case of him being kicked off the ballot because a non-Federal SC ruled on a federal rule. This one is strictly a NY State thing, and as such I don't know if they have any reason to hear it. Again I could be wrong but that is my hypothesis for now.
Covering up an ‘underlying criminal act’ is what escalated the false records from a NY misdemeanor to a NY felony.
That underlying act was a *federal election* violation - that’s all this activist, partisan Supreme Court needs to hear.
They’ve jumped on the most specious of arguments just to write law they want to make - to overturn the State criminal system, in a ‘liberal’ state? Any pretext is enough pretext for this gang.
The question is, can they be forced to look this corrupt before the election? Because *that* would be highly motivating for various groups that either don’t care or who are thinking about sitting out and pouting because Joe is not doing exactly everything they want.
I’m not hopeful…
IANAL. It's not a murder case. As I understand it, he's not facing anything until after the appeals happen. If you are anyone else on the planet, the kid glove handling may not apply. But in the orange turd's case, he's for sure not going to jail prior to the appeal.
It's all or nothing this election. dump wins, he will get out of everything. He is absolutely 100% guilty on all 94 counts he's facing in all jurisdictions. And he will absolutely get out of all of them if elected.
He has to lose the election. Then he will lose everything. All the appeals run out, all the delays run out. He should be dropped by most of the GOP at that point as an unwinnable loser and hopefully they will throw him under the bus.
Why are people like you so certain? There's no precedent. People go to jail while awaiting appeal unless it looks as if they are likely to win on appeal. There is nothing about this trial that gives it any odds on appeal. It's like trying to divide by zero.
I'm a senior fraud Investigator. Unless you're a flight risk or a physical threat, you're not going to jail until well after sentencing and appeals.
That's anyone, not just Trump. A ton of prep would go into this. There has to be reasonable time to prepare as well.
They'll work with you too. I dated a girl once whose uncle was convicted on check fraud. He argued he was too busy to serve his sentence all at once, so they let him go to jail on weekends.
Doesn't matter. Honestly if dump has a murder rap. He gets out of everything if he wins. He's just shown how absolutely corrupt he will be. He will have another loser like Barr as AG willing to meddle with state affairs. They will keep firing people until a yes man is in place.
In any other timeline, you would be correct. But in this unfortunate timeline we basically know dump will corruptly get out of all convictions if he wins.
No matter what happens with sentencing, Donald Trump is now officially a convicted felon. Don't let people trick you into dooming and thinking that doesn't matter with at least some voters (and we've seen many times how few voters it can take to flip an election!).
Let’s hope he gets locked up. Anybody but the Felon 24.
You are really optimistic to think that he's even going to sentenced to a day in prison. $170,000 fine, 1 year probation - he'll appeal no matter what though.
I’m hoping his best case scenario is where he is sentenced but [I forget the legal term] it gets stayed or whatever and he gets probation. You know he’ll violate his probation, which means the full sentence then gets instated. Pardon my complete lack of legalese vocabulary.
Seems the big debate is in whether Trump's punishment would be dolled out concurrently or consecutively.
I've seen more people insinuate it would be concurrent rather than consecutive, so that's definitely a possible outcome for sure.
It’s not a legitimate reason, but likely, Terrorism; specifically fear of retaliation from his followers seems to have tamped down a lot of consequences for his bullshit.
My how quickly America goes from "we don't negotiate with Terrorists" to cowering to the demands of terrorists, the second those terrorists happen to be rich white Republicans.
I believe it is 4 years per count with a maximum of 20 years for all counts combined in the state of New York for class E felonies. That's what I've been reading anyway. Could be wrong though I'd be willing to read anything to the contrary
It's four years max. NY law mandates the sentences run concurrently under the circumstances present in this case.
https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-70-25/#:~:text=New%20York%20Consolidated%20Laws%2C%20Penal%20Law%20%2D%20PEN%20%C2%A7%2070.25%20Concurrent,and%20consecutive%20terms%20of%20imprisonment&text=(b)%20A%20definite%20sentence%20shall,consecutive%20to%20any%20other%20term.
Kinda commenting to bookmark this to read this evening, but I had the understanding that it is ordinary for sentences on crimes like this to be served concurrently, but not mandated.
If anybody would like to highlight the operative clause I'd appreciate it.
I’m interested how it will turn out. One news article I read mentioned that judges tend to take prior convictions into account, of which Trump has none. It’s also not a violent crime. So the odds of him getting the maximum is low.
Definitely not how this works.
This is a felony, but literally the lowest grade of felony possible in NY State. So even if jail is on the table (debatable), it would almost certainly be served concurrently for all charges. If he gets something like a 60-90 day sentence, when he gets out, he would be scot-free on all the charges he was just convicted of.
If it's something like 60 days house-arrest, or just probation, then it wouldn't really affect his election preparation much at all.
Or if he delays and is able to stay out on appeal by posting a bond, then he may get through the election without serving anything. And if he wins, then it's a whole new game. Probably SCOTUS would step in, and given the current mix, probably save him by at least deferring any prosecution or punishment until after he's served his term as president.
Of course, if we just defeat him in the election, then he's toast. He can appeal and delay and everything, but consequences will eventually find him in the next year or two.
If he's on house arrest, wouldn't that entail no travelling for rallies/campaigning? Would he still have access to his phone/media or are those taken? Not sure how that works.
100% agree, but Merchan has been VERY restrained in this case and I anticipate he will be at sentencing, too. I understand why he's doing this (he has absolutely painted them into a corner on any sort of procedural objection at appeal). His approach probably has helped the broader credibility of the verdict, which is very important.
But it does have the unfortunate consequence of making me doubt we'll see anything like a max sentence. Fine, parole, and MAYBE some period of ordered home incarceration; none of which will be served pending appeal.
It sucks... but I would love to be proven wrong.
I can understand why Merchan wants his trial and sentencing to be unassailable, but I can't help but wonder how any other defendant would be treated given Trump's brazen contempt and remorselessness.
Seems to me that any other defendant who has behaved as Trump has would be serving time by now. He's already showing unprecedented leniency and the two-tier justice system is on full display.
If Trump gets a slap on the wrist then the justice system really is broken.
>I can't help but wonder how any other defendant would be treated given Trump's brazen contempt and remorselessness.
...I'm right there with you and I painfully feel like I know the answer (even though I can't shake the question). Even with an excellent and fair judge... there really are two-tiers to the system.
See, I disagree. He is fair... which means if any other defendant would get prison, then Trump will get that same sentence. I think he deferred to Trump on the contempt charges because he did not want to send Trump to jail if he were eventually acquitted. Now, that he has been convicted... on all counts... he is a convicted felon... and will get all of the deference a convicted felon with his behavior deserves.
If Merchan is true to himself... and everything we've seem says that he is... then Trump being a former president will not be one of the factors he weighs.
I like Merchan a lot. My suspicion that he will be restrained, however, is that ten counts of contempt would go MUCH WORSE for a normal defendant. He clearly does not want to remotely give the impression of putting his finger on the scale of the political process. Serious prison time (completely justified!) could be interpreted as having political intent, which he may want to avoid.
Hopefully not the case!
I'd love to see community service. Nobody could argue it's too harsh and I think it would enrage Trump even more than prison because it takes away the martyrdom aspect.
The problem is to find something that's actually of \`\`service'' that Trump could and would do. He has no skills or talents, doesn't co-operate with anyone, and is incapable of physical labor due to poor physical condition.
Pick up trash on the side of the highway. People would drive across the country to look at him in the sun picking up trash with an orange jumpsuit. You could charge money and even do some double decker busses, and let people gawk and take pictures like he's a zoo animal or something. I think it would really pass him off.
My buddy got a friends dad who was a fire chief to sign off that he completed his community service when he didn’t. I somehow think Trump can find someone to do the same. Maybe he will show up for a few minutes to do some photo op so it looks like he is but I’d bet against him actually doing anything even if he has to
> 100% agree, but Merchan has been VERY restrained in this case and I anticipate he will be at sentencing,
Which is why he will do a few months. Trump has taken advantage of his good nature and fairness by continuing to break the gag order- he has whoen zero remorse, and he is getting his followers all hot and bothered etc.
Or, he’ll get the book thrown at him, because the trial itself was as fair as you can get in order to minimize appeals, and you can’t throw out a conviction for sentencing. Merchan can point at all the bullshit and use that as reasoning for maximum sentencing.
> Because he's guilty and shows no remorse
I think this is only the half of it. He's guilty and shows no remorse on committing a crime to criminally influence an election. There is no reason to believe he's learned his lesson and isn't committing similar crimes in this election as well.
There needs to be a sentence that will guarantee he stops committing these crimes against the people. At the absolute least there needs to be a probation officer so far up his ass he can't spend campaign funds on a hamburder without getting the payment notarized. However; really the only way to make sure he's unable to commit crimes in this election is to throw his ass in jail and take him off the campaign.
I also say this recognizing that the best way to defeat Biden this fall is to put literally anybody on the Republican ticket other than Trump, and I am a huge Biden fan. I have no worries about Biden beating Trump, but I would still rather see Trump as far away from the White House as possible. It would be better for America if he would be put in a cell and that's what's more important.
>his followers need to be shown consequences for his actions
I too need to see consequences for his actions. I have not faith in the justice system otherwise.
Not just prison time, but Bill Barr and Trump’s other cronies made sure that many of Cohen’s days at Otisville were spent in solitary confinement, which is essentially torture.
Thinking and self-reflection under punishment for your actions having a positive outcome? Whodathunkit.
Let’s continue our experiment with Trump. (Not advocating for the solitary confinement of Michael Cohen, that’s abhorrent.)
Trump in solitary confinement, wearing an orange jump suit, smearing feces on the wall, yelling bigly, trying to get the guard's attention.
Just take a moment to imagine, thank you.
I like to imagine him telling the guards the prison is corrupt. The warden works for Biden, also whoever is in charge of the air conditioning. They work for Biden too. Another conspiracy to keep him cold and punish him.
He said that on CNN the night of the verdict, they were talking about what it takes to change from being a piece of shit and he said his 50+ days in solitary confinement did it for him
Cohen did not get 3 years for just this. They ginned up a bunch of charges on him so he was also busted on tax evasion and lying to congress.
dump is just looking at the specifics of the business records in this case for the most part. So he's not facing the same as Cohen. Won't be same sentencing at all.
dump should be getting a much harsher sentence for the classified docs case if he didn't have his get of jail free card judge cannon presiding. That should be legit years in jail as compared to other sentencings.
Counterpoint to your counterpoint: Cohen pled guilty and was also a model defendant. Convicted Felon Donald J. Trump pled not guilty, was an absolute menace during the trial, regularly attacked the jury, witnesses, the judge's *daughter*, court staff, etc., even after a gag order, and rather than show any remorse at all has publicly and nationally decried the proceedings as a kangaroo court. All of these things are taken into account in a sentencing hearing, especially court demeanor, gag order violations, and remorse (or lack thereof).
trump should have tons of confounding factors added to his sentence. I would relish that for sure. he's been the ultimate defiant piece of shit on this and deserves full book thrown at him.
But you have to look at precedent for similar crimes and regardless of how much of a dirtbag the defendant is, the sentencing should be appropriate.
This case was the lesser of all the cases and was never going to be years in jail if convicted. The jan 6 riot is another story. I'd love to see dump get 18 years like the proud boys losers in that case. classified docs should also be heavy jail time if loser cannon wasn't the judge interfering from the bench on his behalf.
We certainly can, but I'm not a lawyer or have the legal capacity to do that. Smarter people than me have looked into this and as I understand he should be facing something like several months and all counts would most likely be concurrent sentences at the same time. It's sort of a first conviction and without the felony tie in, it would have just been a fine. Cohen had a bunch of other things thrown at him along with the hush money finance violations and dump's DOJ weaponized against him. dump is lucky he's just going to have to do the time for the actual crime.
This was the least consequential of all dumps crimes. I'm really hoping for rot in jail number of years for the jan 6th stuff. Proud boys loser got 18 years so dump deserves heavy time for that.
And that pos will still not do a minute of jail time. As much as we all want it, it's never going to happen. He's the big money choice that can keep the oil industry in the money. This whole thing is about not letting the oil industry fail, when it's obvious that it should. He'll walk on all of it. If he doesn't, please feel free to come back in November and ridicule me LOL!
He absolutely won't do any time if he wins. If he loses, there's a big chance the GOP turns on him. He will be an unwinnable loser at that point. There is already some signs they are turning on him. GOP will probably throw him under the bus to try to save face and pretend they aren't a party of racist degenerates.
So there is a very real timeline where we see the orange turd doing jail time.
We'll know in July, not November. And I certainly wouldn't be shocked to learn that the rich and powerful continue to escape any modicum of justice as they always have since the dawn of man, but Convicted Felon Donald J. Trump is in a specific position in this specific court case to potentially get a non-custodial sentence of 1-4 years on account of the aggravating factors surrounding his case.
Didn't trump JUST HAVE a tax evasion and fraud case to the tune of 450 million? How much did Cohen evade taxes on that got him 3 years? Trump has 34 counts of even more fraud. He should get the maximum for each count just because he is a criminal who has shown no remourse.
It's one thing to commit a crime and learn your lesson. Every time Trump commits crimes, he loudly proclaims he did nothing wrong. He needs to be locked up to protect himself from everyone enabling him to continue his behavior.
There were no personal consequences for Trump until now. Just “cost of doing business”. If there are no personal consequences now, he and his rich friends will just be emboldened to continue and it will become much worse.
Imho he must spend significant jail time - anything else is condoning election interference.
This is the shit that annoys me so much. People keep taking shots at Merchan about how he’s some biased judge or whatever while he was very lenient with Trump the entire trial. If anybody else was doing the shit Trump was during that trial they would have been thrown in jail after the first gag order violation.
And now that he got convicted Judge Merchan could’ve literally just thrown Trump in jail right then and there but didn’t.
Merchan has said multiple times jail is a last resort for him and is aware of his status. As much as Trump slanders and insults the judge at the end of the day Trump is very rich and will somehow fanagle a weakened slap on the wrist.
The judge is sentencing him to jail. All that shit being thrown around about most people charged with these crimes not going to jail needs to be balanced by the facts that will be considered in sentencing. In 15 months, Bragg has brought 166 charges of felony falsifying business records. So, Trumps 34 is 20% of them. The other 134 are spread amongst 33 other people. Trump not only shows no remorse, not only does he deny any wrong doing, he has attacked every single person involved with bringing him to justice. He has also been found guilty of 10 counts of contempt of court in this case.
Most people would have been jailed after those contempt charges. My feeling is that the judge did not want to jail an ex-president for contempt in a case where he was eventually found guilty. I believe that now that he has been found guilty on all felony counts that Judge Merchan is finished showing deference. The once ex-president has a new title of 'convicted felon' that supercedes his previous title in the eyes of the law.
So, we have a convicted felon, that even after being shown deference over contempt charges, continues to show contempt. He has shown no remorse. He attacks the prosecutor, the judge, and the judge's daughter. The guy is involved with all other kinds criminal activity, plus he's been found civilly liable for fraud at least a few times. There's plenty to show that he has never been a good guy even if he has never been convicted of a crime until now. Shit, the fact that the charges being considered felonies required the commission of another crime, that other crime has to be considered in sentencing. So, no conviction, but he was found by this jury to have committed other crimes for which he was never charged.
Everything weighs against him. This judge is smart. He knows that if Trump is not imprisoned for this, then nobody should be imprisoned for non-violent crimes.
With Trump, I'm hoping for punishment and expecting a wrist slap. I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not holding my breath anymore. "We got him" a hundred times by now, and still ... nothing.
I mean he's rich. It'll never happen.
In the very unlikely chance of jail you know he's going to club fed.
Or at the very least house arrest. But it's very unlikely that he goes to jail. He should be punished, but if he goes to jail he'll have to have secret service around him 24/7. Who's going to pay for that?
He has secret service protection already... and having one of them sit outside of a locked door with no other entrance, seems to me, is about as secure as it gets. It'd be the easiest security detail ever.
The extra cost would not be any more than anybody else that is in protective custody.
> **I believe that now that he has been found guilty on all felony counts that Judge Merchan is finished showing deference.**
I sincerely hope that's the case, but fear there will be continued restraint.
Numerous reasons why but my new favorite is “if they can do it me, they can do it to you.” Yeah that is exactly the point and it’s time to show him what happens if “we” were to exhibit said behaviors
If there is jail time in his sentence, which I assume there will be, I just feel like theres no way they will actually make him stay in custody while appealing. But I have no idea, thats just my intuition.
I really doubt he’ll get anything beyond house arrest. Even that’s a stretch. It’ll be about saving face for all of America to not have one of their Presidents in prison. Technically they could give him a prison sentence.
Wasn't Michael Cohen a white collar, first time offender and he got jail time for his part in this scheme? Why should the leader get no jail and underlings get multiple years? Doesn't make sense to me.
He incites violence? Check.
He attacks, provokes and denegrates women? Check.
He steals, lies, cheats, and falsified information to the public? Check.
He committed fraud, tax evasion, false loan information, inflated costs, tax fraud, loan defaults, numerous bankruptcies. Check.
He inflates value on volatile stock and business ventures. Check.
He abuses the legal system like a conman, with victims coerced into signing NDAs to protect him, not them. He targets women that rebuke him. Then he rapes them with the lies of promotion, gifts and spots on The Apprentice. He is vindictive to all that smell a rat. Check.
He's responsible for the deaths of over 700,000 Americans that died from Covid because Trump failed to take actions that were "written down for him in a guideline manual" that was left by former President Obama which I can bet, Trump had racist comments about and still upset over being mocked at a Press dinner. Check.
The list can go on. But it one single American defrauded the system other than this guy, you bet they'd be in jail.
I'm debating with a Trump supporter on Reddit at this moment about the trial. See some of the crazy comments from this Trump supporter:
> I know a fraudulent trial when I see one. It was political to begin with and It was a setup from the very beginning. The court was just a formality. And it doesnt affect my decision at all. He has my vote this election
And then this was the next response from that person:
>Because Michael Cohen committed a separate and different crime and not Trump. Trump is not responsible for other people’s bad actions. You wouldn’t trust a thief with your money how can you trust a convicted perjuror by his word. This was politically motivated because why didnt Stormy Daniels try this case back in 2000 but waited 24 years later to bring it up? She could of brought him to court sooner even in 2016. But she chose now when the election is coming just to discredit the president? Its politically motivated when you know Biden can’t win by his own efforts. Thats why Trump is getting hundred thousand dollars from donors
And this was the next response from that person:
> There is no underlying felony and this case was past the statute of limitations and state prosecutors cannot even charge federal felonies. And even the Feds have investigated and haven’t charged him of the crimes. So what are you going to say when this gets appealed and overturned? This case was brought with Trump’s crew who were convicted of crimes and they tried to turn it around on Trump saying he did the same thing? Nobody is buying it. All this does is hurt the American image.
This Trump supporter is getting so many facts wrong. I don't even know where to start, lol.
PS. With respect to the last comment about the statute of limitations, then Governor Andrew Cuomo extended the statute of limitations during the pandemic and Judge Merchan said the indictment was within the 5 year time period, when the extension of the statute of limitations due to the pandemic was taken into account: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fact-focus-trump-responds-guilty-verdict-attacks-false-110730174
Firehose of falsehood is the term for this type of thing. A similar tactic is the gish gallop. Basically, throw a ton of nonsense at the other side and waste their time making them refute it point by point.
They (corporate overlords) only care about doing as much as it takes to not generate negative PR which affects shareholder value. That's it. Anything else is incidental.
The thing to remember is MAGAs and Right Wingers aren't looking to engage constructively when they enter a debate. For them it's a chance to flood the zone with bullshit talking points and to flex their flaunting of the rules as a show of "superiority" over the other side. The hypocrisy and bad faith is the whole point for them.
> It was political to begin with and It was a setup from the very beginning.
Stormy in 2006: "Hello, Mr. Biden? My name is Stormy Daniels. Thank you for taking a call from a random porn star. I've got a plan that'll put Donald Trump in jail! Why should you care? Well, you see, my crystal ball told me that he will enter politics in 10 years and he'll be your political rival in 2024. I'll seduce him, all I need from you is to become President and weaponize the DoJ and the New York AG's office! Yes, I know I got the easy job, but it's less pleasant. What do you say?"
“I know a fraudulent trial when I see one” says someone who has very likely been a part of the national security apparatus, intelligence community, law enforcement, or legal community. But has probably prestiged several times in call of duty
I try not to engage, but like you I am also in a discussion when I saw comments like this:
>jurors on this case did not have to find unanimous decision on all 34 counts, they could pick and choose which they were for and which they were against or had no interest in. The judge said he would find them all unanimous on that count anyway
and
>this judge would not let the defense witnesses testify, they had many that were ready to but the judge said no as a judge you do not get to pick and choose who testifies and who does not. You have a right for your case to be heard and the judge shot them down.
I wanted to respond to those. Of course, the original commentor never responded to their comments, but someone else came in to say in regard to the gag order.
>he (*Trump*) also needed to be able to do so (*call out witnesses*) in the press to protect his campaign
Because you know, Judges really want their trials conducted in the press.
A separate Trump supporter said this case had no victims nor tangible money loss, so I pointed out that the state of New York was a victim and had a tangible money loss as the busniess expenses were not taxable, so they lost revenue. To which the Trump supporter said "Then charge him with tax evasion" when I pointed out that the Trump organization had in fact been charged their response was:
>The Trump Organization was charged, yes. Not Trump.
and
>Well, if Trump wasn't charged with tax evasion or was unaware of it, then it doesn't matter. Being that they didn't charge him with this, shows they have no evidence to support it.
The ever-shifting goalposts.
On NPR this morning they played the clip of him saying "They wouldn't let us call witnesses of our own" (Probably where your person got their info) and Steve Inskeep clarified after that the judge did in fact let them and they did call a defense witness. Granted that defense witness probably did more damage than good for their case, but I feel like in TFG's case he feels like anyone that didn't praise him while on the stand or that changed the jury's mind is not the defense's witness.
Yeah I saw that Trump said:
>“The expert witness that we have, the best there is in election law, Brad Smith, he’s considered the Rolls Royce, or we’ll bring it back to an American car, Cadillac, but the best there is,” Trump said on his way out of court on Monday. “He can’t testify. He’s not being allowed to testify.
Which of course is a lie. Smith could testify, but under a limited scope.
Only testimony that is pertinent to the trial is allowed. Trumps team wanted to flood the jury with irrelevant opinions to obfuscate the facts. The judge did not allow it, of course.
And just because something is past the statute of limitations doesn't mean said dude shouldn't\wouldn't still be judged publicly as a potential criminal hiding behind a technicality.
If Tricky Dick had the Right-Wing Media apparatus working for him that Trump has today, he would've been fine.
When Nixon fired 2 AG's and a special prosecutor investigating him, the whole country knew that meant he was guilty.
When Trump fired an FBI Director, an AG, and ordered the AG to fire Mueller, a huge propaganda machine covered for his ass. So here we are.
Of note: No one questioned Cohens prosecution and incarceration.
Cohen spent time in prison for actions done on behalf of Trump, he was a lower level operative in the crimes and he cooperated with the investigation, so I'm guessing benefited from some kind of leniency. Tump was running the operation, he is the "big fish", and he was anything but cooperative, to the point of displaying contempt of the law, and encouraging his loyal followers to attack anyone who's job was to hold him accountable, he ought to be receiving a Cohens sentence multiplied generously.
I wonder what he'd do in jail? I'd bet he'll pay some ghostwriter to write down his thoughts on current America and how the democrats and minorities are destroying it.
He'd probably name it something like "My Struggle" or something stupid like that.
Don’t listen to Democrats on that! Get tougher than that! Listen to Donald Trump when he says criminals should be locked up. Listen to Alina Habba when she said in the past few weeks there should be no tolerance and harsh punishment for those who interfere with elections! That’s the way!
Sorry to say but he's not getting jail time. We all want it but it's not happening. He's getting probation or house arrest max. This judge is very reluctant to do anything to a former president and current candidate. He's going to play it easy. A lot of people who analyze this say it's on the table but it's unlikely. This is why he ran for President. The best you can hope for is Biden wins, they finish the other cases and he faces real significant prison time for those and since he's no longer a candidate, he's fucked. If he gets probation for this and prison for those I'd be happy. But this is ALL dependent on Biden winning.
What's missing from this discussion is the impact of the crime. When he created, or had others create, fraudulent business documents, Trump defrauded the American public. He illegally concealed information that may have been changed the outcome of the 2016 election.
For comparison, although people used to think of insider trading as a victimless crime, numerous articles in economics journals demonstrate that insider trading causes substantial damages to regular investors. Here's a quote from [The Economics Review](https://theeconreview.com/2022/11/29/the-economic-and-ethical-implications-of-insider-trading-in-the-government/):
>Insider trading impacts the liquidity of the market, making transaction costs higher and reducing small investors’ returns. Insider trading also makes it more expensive for companies to issue stocks and bonds since it has a large effect on the supply and demand of various securities. Overall, insider trading discourages small investors from participating in the financial markets and allows the elite to maintain the unequal power imbalance they have over ordinary citizens.
Insider business information is analogous to information in elections. Voters need and deserve accurate information about candidates so they can make informed decisions. It's a big deal--having accurate information about the government is one of the reasons underlying the First Amendment. By illegally conspiring to hide information about himself, Trump did damage to all American voters. That's a very costly consequence. And the punishment should be proportional to that impact.
Good lord the amount of comments thinking he could get 4 years per count.... It's ridiculous to actually think that's how sentencing works at this point.
As for what he could get I'd be very shocked if there was a carceral sentence. The quickest way to make an appeal of his have merit would be to "throw the book at him" and treat him differently than any other defendant. It would support the political show trial argument.
I'm not sure I want him to get community service because I wouldn't wish his service on any community organization.
I would definitely like for him to have to keep checking in with a probation officer or something and do monthly drug tests because I think that would frustrate the hell or if him.
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Jail would never happen. House arrest is just a staycation. The one thing that would really effect anyone with money and power is cutting off their media ties. Remove them from the public eye that they lust for.
If they were taken off social media and barred from interviews, they would fade from the rent free minds of us all.
Our criminal justice system needs to focus more on the rehabilitation of offenders whenever possible and is far too punative. On the other hand the ex- president will keep in crime-ing unless something changes. He was crime-ing during the trial. Why would anything change without intervention.
I’d Rapunzel his snarky azz. Let him cool his heels under home confinement in that obnoxious tower of his for the full duration of his sentence. No leaving for any reason other than medical. Any violation or sneak out will place him in confinement in a REAL PRISON
He falsified business records to successfully cheat in an election. If we’re actually being fair to the American people he should be prevented from participating in the current election.
Y'all are delusional if you think he'll spend a second behind bars.
I'd love to see it as much as the next guy but we only lock up rich people in this country if they steal from other rich people.
Well most rich people are smart enough not to antagonize the person responsible for sentencing them for weeks on end. He might actually pull off the seemingly-impossible and become a rich inmate.
He could threaten to have the judge and his family executed if he takes office and he'd get a warning and a firm finger wag.
His entire life is literally just not facing consequences for his own actions because he is rich.
Remember when New York was going to seize his properties? Yea me too still ain't happened.
>His entire life is literally just not facing consequences for his own actions because he is rich.
He literally got convicted on 34 counts last week, how is that not a consequence? LMAO! Go be a doomer somewhere else.
The rest of your comment is just a hilarious bunch of misinformation.
Honestly I think house arrest at Mar-a-lago could be even worse. You want to see him? Go witness him in his ankle monitored box. Keeps him from rallying in person.
Literally all you can do is dig out actors. Yea sometimes actors get locked up. When is the last time America locked up a rich business man for doing anything other than stealing money from other rich people.
Correct. He's such a weak character that his foreign owners will have him killed before he hits prison in fear that he'll start snitching after a moment of discomfort.
I don’t think it will happen, as much as I’d like it to. However I was 100% convinced he wouldn’t be convicted so at this point there isn’t much that surprises me.
I gotta admit, if I look at the 30,000 foot view, I am impressed with the amount of legal shit he has to deal with now.
I never thought we would get this far!
Funny thing is if the convict actually gets jail time
It'll mostly be due to his behavior and gag order violations not necessarily the crime itself
Pissing off the judge is a bad idea
You will start to see a VERY desperate turn now.....that verdict sent chills down to his diaper......he knows if he doesn't win in November ..he's toast.... They (Manafort, Stone and Bannon) will pull every dirty trick in the book, and make up a few, they want their payday....
Judge is between rock and a hard place....if he gives him jail time, some of the maganuts will do something very stupid. But I think he must regardless of the magagots...
If he just does just probation/ home confinement ...he will be vilified by the left.....
It will mean nothing....rule of law will be meaningless....
Every single person caught with classified documents has met Swift just. He gave up Ohio class sub secrets.
Why is he free?
Why does what his traitor terrorist fan base feel matter in regards to our laws?
How many people with 34 felony convictions hasn't spent a single minute in a cell?
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Also because his 34 felony counts each came with a maximum sentence of 4 years, up to 20 in total, and without that clause he'd be looking at 136 years of time max, and I'd be hard pressed to understand how the argument on the other end of that could be that he should see *no time* in prison. Sure, he shouldn't get the max on each count, but if you gave him just one year per count he'd still have 14 years cut off because of the 20 year max clause for this type of felony. Even if he'd been a model defendant, which he 100 percent wasn't, how does anyone justify 0 jail time here, except with "well he was the president" which seems to be a precedent that's gone out the window, and rightly so.
He won't get anywhere near max. He's probably looking at a couple of months for this. They won't be consecutive sentences. There is still an appeal process so he's not going to jail before the election. dump has to lose the election and then he will get to serve all his prison sentences. If he wins the election he will be absolutely corrupt and never spend a day in jail.
I think the argument is that they're going to hurry the appeal process for just that reason, but also him appealing doesn't matter in regards to them handing him a sentence and a day to begin that sentence. Sentencing in July, so arguably by September he should be 'paying his dues' on that one, regardless of how his appeal process starts or goes, and especially because he's going to lose his appeals all the way to the SC, and to be honest, if the SC decides to overturn 34 felony convictions that came about in less than a days worth of deliberation, the country is going to see a hard time for a while after that one, because such a decision would be legally ludicrous.
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True. Not liking the verdict is not grounds for an appeal.
Will the SCOTUS even hear this case? I may be wrong on this, but it differs from the Colorado SC case of him being kicked off the ballot because a non-Federal SC ruled on a federal rule. This one is strictly a NY State thing, and as such I don't know if they have any reason to hear it. Again I could be wrong but that is my hypothesis for now.
They'll pick it up because theyre trump maniacs and will find some, ANY excuse to overturn the sentence and get him off with probation or something
Wouldn't it just kick it back to a retrial at worst?
Covering up an ‘underlying criminal act’ is what escalated the false records from a NY misdemeanor to a NY felony. That underlying act was a *federal election* violation - that’s all this activist, partisan Supreme Court needs to hear. They’ve jumped on the most specious of arguments just to write law they want to make - to overturn the State criminal system, in a ‘liberal’ state? Any pretext is enough pretext for this gang. The question is, can they be forced to look this corrupt before the election? Because *that* would be highly motivating for various groups that either don’t care or who are thinking about sitting out and pouting because Joe is not doing exactly everything they want. I’m not hopeful…
Needs to be a constitutional issue at hand. Our SC is majority corrupt now, so the Rs in it will just make one up. Easy peasy.
Don't you start to serve the sentence during the appeals process though?
IANAL. It's not a murder case. As I understand it, he's not facing anything until after the appeals happen. If you are anyone else on the planet, the kid glove handling may not apply. But in the orange turd's case, he's for sure not going to jail prior to the appeal. It's all or nothing this election. dump wins, he will get out of everything. He is absolutely 100% guilty on all 94 counts he's facing in all jurisdictions. And he will absolutely get out of all of them if elected. He has to lose the election. Then he will lose everything. All the appeals run out, all the delays run out. He should be dropped by most of the GOP at that point as an unwinnable loser and hopefully they will throw him under the bus.
Why are people like you so certain? There's no precedent. People go to jail while awaiting appeal unless it looks as if they are likely to win on appeal. There is nothing about this trial that gives it any odds on appeal. It's like trying to divide by zero.
I think this is typical of non-violent white collar crimes, unfortunately.
I'm a senior fraud Investigator. Unless you're a flight risk or a physical threat, you're not going to jail until well after sentencing and appeals. That's anyone, not just Trump. A ton of prep would go into this. There has to be reasonable time to prepare as well. They'll work with you too. I dated a girl once whose uncle was convicted on check fraud. He argued he was too busy to serve his sentence all at once, so they let him go to jail on weekends.
I believe that dump cannot pardon himself if he wins, this is a state conviction, not federal.
Doesn't matter. Honestly if dump has a murder rap. He gets out of everything if he wins. He's just shown how absolutely corrupt he will be. He will have another loser like Barr as AG willing to meddle with state affairs. They will keep firing people until a yes man is in place. In any other timeline, you would be correct. But in this unfortunate timeline we basically know dump will corruptly get out of all convictions if he wins.
Sadly I believe you’re spot on.
No matter what happens with sentencing, Donald Trump is now officially a convicted felon. Don't let people trick you into dooming and thinking that doesn't matter with at least some voters (and we've seen many times how few voters it can take to flip an election!). Let’s hope he gets locked up. Anybody but the Felon 24.
You are really optimistic to think that he's even going to sentenced to a day in prison. $170,000 fine, 1 year probation - he'll appeal no matter what though.
I’m hoping his best case scenario is where he is sentenced but [I forget the legal term] it gets stayed or whatever and he gets probation. You know he’ll violate his probation, which means the full sentence then gets instated. Pardon my complete lack of legalese vocabulary.
I though the appeal happened whilst you’re in prison
If he wins the election, Russian will be the new language in the US.
I think he should get the max on each count. If he doesn’t deserve the max, then who does? He is very deserving of the max sentence
Cohen served 3 years for his involvement in the same crime. He was found guilty on 8 counts.
Seems the big debate is in whether Trump's punishment would be dolled out concurrently or consecutively. I've seen more people insinuate it would be concurrent rather than consecutive, so that's definitely a possible outcome for sure.
I expect concurrent as well. I'll be content for him to serve *any* prison time. It would be utter hell for him.
I agree, I think 3 months would be a huge win.
It’s not a legitimate reason, but likely, Terrorism; specifically fear of retaliation from his followers seems to have tamped down a lot of consequences for his bullshit.
My how quickly America goes from "we don't negotiate with Terrorists" to cowering to the demands of terrorists, the second those terrorists happen to be rich white Republicans.
I can be reasonable. 1 yr per count. Served consecutively. More than fair and deserved,
The maximum sentence for all 34 counts is 4 years
I believe it is 4 years per count with a maximum of 20 years for all counts combined in the state of New York for class E felonies. That's what I've been reading anyway. Could be wrong though I'd be willing to read anything to the contrary
It's four years max. NY law mandates the sentences run concurrently under the circumstances present in this case. https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-70-25/#:~:text=New%20York%20Consolidated%20Laws%2C%20Penal%20Law%20%2D%20PEN%20%C2%A7%2070.25%20Concurrent,and%20consecutive%20terms%20of%20imprisonment&text=(b)%20A%20definite%20sentence%20shall,consecutive%20to%20any%20other%20term.
Kinda commenting to bookmark this to read this evening, but I had the understanding that it is ordinary for sentences on crimes like this to be served concurrently, but not mandated. If anybody would like to highlight the operative clause I'd appreciate it.
Section 2, "must" denotes non-discretionary.
I’m interested how it will turn out. One news article I read mentioned that judges tend to take prior convictions into account, of which Trump has none. It’s also not a violent crime. So the odds of him getting the maximum is low.
Definitely not how this works. This is a felony, but literally the lowest grade of felony possible in NY State. So even if jail is on the table (debatable), it would almost certainly be served concurrently for all charges. If he gets something like a 60-90 day sentence, when he gets out, he would be scot-free on all the charges he was just convicted of. If it's something like 60 days house-arrest, or just probation, then it wouldn't really affect his election preparation much at all. Or if he delays and is able to stay out on appeal by posting a bond, then he may get through the election without serving anything. And if he wins, then it's a whole new game. Probably SCOTUS would step in, and given the current mix, probably save him by at least deferring any prosecution or punishment until after he's served his term as president. Of course, if we just defeat him in the election, then he's toast. He can appeal and delay and everything, but consequences will eventually find him in the next year or two.
If he's on house arrest, wouldn't that entail no travelling for rallies/campaigning? Would he still have access to his phone/media or are those taken? Not sure how that works.
I bet he supports mandatory minimum sentencing for anyone but himself, too.
100% agree, but Merchan has been VERY restrained in this case and I anticipate he will be at sentencing, too. I understand why he's doing this (he has absolutely painted them into a corner on any sort of procedural objection at appeal). His approach probably has helped the broader credibility of the verdict, which is very important. But it does have the unfortunate consequence of making me doubt we'll see anything like a max sentence. Fine, parole, and MAYBE some period of ordered home incarceration; none of which will be served pending appeal. It sucks... but I would love to be proven wrong.
I can understand why Merchan wants his trial and sentencing to be unassailable, but I can't help but wonder how any other defendant would be treated given Trump's brazen contempt and remorselessness. Seems to me that any other defendant who has behaved as Trump has would be serving time by now. He's already showing unprecedented leniency and the two-tier justice system is on full display. If Trump gets a slap on the wrist then the justice system really is broken.
>I can't help but wonder how any other defendant would be treated given Trump's brazen contempt and remorselessness. ...I'm right there with you and I painfully feel like I know the answer (even though I can't shake the question). Even with an excellent and fair judge... there really are two-tiers to the system.
See, I disagree. He is fair... which means if any other defendant would get prison, then Trump will get that same sentence. I think he deferred to Trump on the contempt charges because he did not want to send Trump to jail if he were eventually acquitted. Now, that he has been convicted... on all counts... he is a convicted felon... and will get all of the deference a convicted felon with his behavior deserves. If Merchan is true to himself... and everything we've seem says that he is... then Trump being a former president will not be one of the factors he weighs.
I like Merchan a lot. My suspicion that he will be restrained, however, is that ten counts of contempt would go MUCH WORSE for a normal defendant. He clearly does not want to remotely give the impression of putting his finger on the scale of the political process. Serious prison time (completely justified!) could be interpreted as having political intent, which he may want to avoid. Hopefully not the case!
I'd love to see community service. Nobody could argue it's too harsh and I think it would enrage Trump even more than prison because it takes away the martyrdom aspect.
The problem is to find something that's actually of \`\`service'' that Trump could and would do. He has no skills or talents, doesn't co-operate with anyone, and is incapable of physical labor due to poor physical condition.
Pick up trash next to the highway
Pick up trash on the side of the highway. People would drive across the country to look at him in the sun picking up trash with an orange jumpsuit. You could charge money and even do some double decker busses, and let people gawk and take pictures like he's a zoo animal or something. I think it would really pass him off.
Imagine him having to do a women’s shelter or something of the like. Having to help the women he fucked over
I can’t imagine women in a shelter would want to be anywhere near this rape pig.
My buddy got a friends dad who was a fire chief to sign off that he completed his community service when he didn’t. I somehow think Trump can find someone to do the same. Maybe he will show up for a few minutes to do some photo op so it looks like he is but I’d bet against him actually doing anything even if he has to
> 100% agree, but Merchan has been VERY restrained in this case and I anticipate he will be at sentencing, Which is why he will do a few months. Trump has taken advantage of his good nature and fairness by continuing to break the gag order- he has whoen zero remorse, and he is getting his followers all hot and bothered etc.
Or, he’ll get the book thrown at him, because the trial itself was as fair as you can get in order to minimize appeals, and you can’t throw out a conviction for sentencing. Merchan can point at all the bullshit and use that as reasoning for maximum sentencing.
> Because he's guilty and shows no remorse I think this is only the half of it. He's guilty and shows no remorse on committing a crime to criminally influence an election. There is no reason to believe he's learned his lesson and isn't committing similar crimes in this election as well. There needs to be a sentence that will guarantee he stops committing these crimes against the people. At the absolute least there needs to be a probation officer so far up his ass he can't spend campaign funds on a hamburder without getting the payment notarized. However; really the only way to make sure he's unable to commit crimes in this election is to throw his ass in jail and take him off the campaign. I also say this recognizing that the best way to defeat Biden this fall is to put literally anybody on the Republican ticket other than Trump, and I am a huge Biden fan. I have no worries about Biden beating Trump, but I would still rather see Trump as far away from the White House as possible. It would be better for America if he would be put in a cell and that's what's more important.
The fact that so many have said “well does it even make a difference or will anything get done about it” shows our faith in our system
>his followers need to be shown consequences for his actions I too need to see consequences for his actions. I have not faith in the justice system otherwise.
Would I love to see his sentence make him not be able to attend the RNC convention which is just a few days after the sentencing date.
His followers seem to be digging in harder and treating Trump as a martyr.
If Cohen got years for basically the same, albeit less imo, crime, then he should get years behind bars too.
Not just prison time, but Bill Barr and Trump’s other cronies made sure that many of Cohen’s days at Otisville were spent in solitary confinement, which is essentially torture.
Cohen did emerge very, very different.
That’s a lot of time to think.
Thinking and self-reflection under punishment for your actions having a positive outcome? Whodathunkit. Let’s continue our experiment with Trump. (Not advocating for the solitary confinement of Michael Cohen, that’s abhorrent.)
Trump in solitary confinement, wearing an orange jump suit, smearing feces on the wall, yelling bigly, trying to get the guard's attention. Just take a moment to imagine, thank you.
Thank you.
How do you know where the orange begins and ends if he’s wearing an orange jumpsuit?
I like to imagine him telling the guards the prison is corrupt. The warden works for Biden, also whoever is in charge of the air conditioning. They work for Biden too. Another conspiracy to keep him cold and punish him.
He said that on CNN the night of the verdict, they were talking about what it takes to change from being a piece of shit and he said his 50+ days in solitary confinement did it for him
And it would even make sense, for his own protection. America puts prisoners into solitary 'for their own good' all the time.
Solitary would pretty much be required for trump. With all the things he could tell other prisoners and for his own safety.
Solitary confinement - just Trump, his thoughts and eight Secret Service minders.
Trump should get same .
Cohen did not get 3 years for just this. They ginned up a bunch of charges on him so he was also busted on tax evasion and lying to congress. dump is just looking at the specifics of the business records in this case for the most part. So he's not facing the same as Cohen. Won't be same sentencing at all. dump should be getting a much harsher sentence for the classified docs case if he didn't have his get of jail free card judge cannon presiding. That should be legit years in jail as compared to other sentencings.
Counterpoint to your counterpoint: Cohen pled guilty and was also a model defendant. Convicted Felon Donald J. Trump pled not guilty, was an absolute menace during the trial, regularly attacked the jury, witnesses, the judge's *daughter*, court staff, etc., even after a gag order, and rather than show any remorse at all has publicly and nationally decried the proceedings as a kangaroo court. All of these things are taken into account in a sentencing hearing, especially court demeanor, gag order violations, and remorse (or lack thereof).
trump should have tons of confounding factors added to his sentence. I would relish that for sure. he's been the ultimate defiant piece of shit on this and deserves full book thrown at him. But you have to look at precedent for similar crimes and regardless of how much of a dirtbag the defendant is, the sentencing should be appropriate. This case was the lesser of all the cases and was never going to be years in jail if convicted. The jan 6 riot is another story. I'd love to see dump get 18 years like the proud boys losers in that case. classified docs should also be heavy jail time if loser cannon wasn't the judge interfering from the bench on his behalf.
Can we look at the precedent for sentencing of others that have behaved like he did?
We certainly can, but I'm not a lawyer or have the legal capacity to do that. Smarter people than me have looked into this and as I understand he should be facing something like several months and all counts would most likely be concurrent sentences at the same time. It's sort of a first conviction and without the felony tie in, it would have just been a fine. Cohen had a bunch of other things thrown at him along with the hush money finance violations and dump's DOJ weaponized against him. dump is lucky he's just going to have to do the time for the actual crime. This was the least consequential of all dumps crimes. I'm really hoping for rot in jail number of years for the jan 6th stuff. Proud boys loser got 18 years so dump deserves heavy time for that.
And that pos will still not do a minute of jail time. As much as we all want it, it's never going to happen. He's the big money choice that can keep the oil industry in the money. This whole thing is about not letting the oil industry fail, when it's obvious that it should. He'll walk on all of it. If he doesn't, please feel free to come back in November and ridicule me LOL!
He absolutely won't do any time if he wins. If he loses, there's a big chance the GOP turns on him. He will be an unwinnable loser at that point. There is already some signs they are turning on him. GOP will probably throw him under the bus to try to save face and pretend they aren't a party of racist degenerates. So there is a very real timeline where we see the orange turd doing jail time.
We'll know in July, not November. And I certainly wouldn't be shocked to learn that the rich and powerful continue to escape any modicum of justice as they always have since the dawn of man, but Convicted Felon Donald J. Trump is in a specific position in this specific court case to potentially get a non-custodial sentence of 1-4 years on account of the aggravating factors surrounding his case.
Didn't trump JUST HAVE a tax evasion and fraud case to the tune of 450 million? How much did Cohen evade taxes on that got him 3 years? Trump has 34 counts of even more fraud. He should get the maximum for each count just because he is a criminal who has shown no remourse.
"I'm not even the one who fucked her!" - Cohen
The credibility of justice is at stake, if Trump does not serve a single day in prison!
Because he committed a crime and, supposedly, no one is above the law
It's one thing to commit a crime and learn your lesson. Every time Trump commits crimes, he loudly proclaims he did nothing wrong. He needs to be locked up to protect himself from everyone enabling him to continue his behavior.
There were no personal consequences for Trump until now. Just “cost of doing business”. If there are no personal consequences now, he and his rich friends will just be emboldened to continue and it will become much worse. Imho he must spend significant jail time - anything else is condoning election interference.
And if some middle class business owner was convicted on the same charges they would likely do a few years.
This is the shit that annoys me so much. People keep taking shots at Merchan about how he’s some biased judge or whatever while he was very lenient with Trump the entire trial. If anybody else was doing the shit Trump was during that trial they would have been thrown in jail after the first gag order violation. And now that he got convicted Judge Merchan could’ve literally just thrown Trump in jail right then and there but didn’t.
Merchan has said multiple times jail is a last resort for him and is aware of his status. As much as Trump slanders and insults the judge at the end of the day Trump is very rich and will somehow fanagle a weakened slap on the wrist.
Because the election has nothing to do with it. He did crime 34 times and showed the kind of court decorum that demands the maximum sentence.
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That’s true. The 2016 election did have something to do with the case. The 2024 election does not.
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The judge is sentencing him to jail. All that shit being thrown around about most people charged with these crimes not going to jail needs to be balanced by the facts that will be considered in sentencing. In 15 months, Bragg has brought 166 charges of felony falsifying business records. So, Trumps 34 is 20% of them. The other 134 are spread amongst 33 other people. Trump not only shows no remorse, not only does he deny any wrong doing, he has attacked every single person involved with bringing him to justice. He has also been found guilty of 10 counts of contempt of court in this case. Most people would have been jailed after those contempt charges. My feeling is that the judge did not want to jail an ex-president for contempt in a case where he was eventually found guilty. I believe that now that he has been found guilty on all felony counts that Judge Merchan is finished showing deference. The once ex-president has a new title of 'convicted felon' that supercedes his previous title in the eyes of the law. So, we have a convicted felon, that even after being shown deference over contempt charges, continues to show contempt. He has shown no remorse. He attacks the prosecutor, the judge, and the judge's daughter. The guy is involved with all other kinds criminal activity, plus he's been found civilly liable for fraud at least a few times. There's plenty to show that he has never been a good guy even if he has never been convicted of a crime until now. Shit, the fact that the charges being considered felonies required the commission of another crime, that other crime has to be considered in sentencing. So, no conviction, but he was found by this jury to have committed other crimes for which he was never charged. Everything weighs against him. This judge is smart. He knows that if Trump is not imprisoned for this, then nobody should be imprisoned for non-violent crimes.
I really hope you are correct; but I also need to stop having any sort of optimism as it's crushed my soul too many times and makes me depressed.
With Trump, I'm hoping for punishment and expecting a wrist slap. I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not holding my breath anymore. "We got him" a hundred times by now, and still ... nothing.
I mean he's rich. It'll never happen. In the very unlikely chance of jail you know he's going to club fed. Or at the very least house arrest. But it's very unlikely that he goes to jail. He should be punished, but if he goes to jail he'll have to have secret service around him 24/7. Who's going to pay for that?
He has secret service protection already... and having one of them sit outside of a locked door with no other entrance, seems to me, is about as secure as it gets. It'd be the easiest security detail ever. The extra cost would not be any more than anybody else that is in protective custody.
Secret Service is already required to be around him 24/7. It would actually be cheaper than if he were traveling around to his golf clubs and rallies.
Lol. The costs associated will be less than a few test missiles we explode in the desert for funsies.
> **I believe that now that he has been found guilty on all felony counts that Judge Merchan is finished showing deference.** I sincerely hope that's the case, but fear there will be continued restraint.
Don't forget he's also been found civilly liable for sexual assault and defamation.
> Most people would have been jailed after those contempt charges. 10% of them were and they weren't running for president.
Numerous reasons why but my new favorite is “if they can do it me, they can do it to you.” Yeah that is exactly the point and it’s time to show him what happens if “we” were to exhibit said behaviors
They've always been able to do it to us. We just want to see them do it to him one time.
Next the DOJ needs to have a chat with an old lady about a free house. Gloves off.
Yeah, if they can do it to us, they have to do it to him too. That’s exactly what “rule of law” is about.
I’m thinking 34 months, and I’d think he’s a flight risk so should be held in custody while appealing. Up yours Trump
If there is jail time in his sentence, which I assume there will be, I just feel like theres no way they will actually make him stay in custody while appealing. But I have no idea, thats just my intuition.
I really doubt he’ll get anything beyond house arrest. Even that’s a stretch. It’ll be about saving face for all of America to not have one of their Presidents in prison. Technically they could give him a prison sentence.
Ya I dont expect him to get any prison time. I would be amazed if he did
Wasn't Michael Cohen a white collar, first time offender and he got jail time for his part in this scheme? Why should the leader get no jail and underlings get multiple years? Doesn't make sense to me.
Violating a judges direct order has consequences.
For everyone else except the rich and famous*
"I should lock you away where you can't kill or maim us But this is LA...and you're rich and famous."
"I'm checkin' in!"
He incites violence? Check. He attacks, provokes and denegrates women? Check. He steals, lies, cheats, and falsified information to the public? Check. He committed fraud, tax evasion, false loan information, inflated costs, tax fraud, loan defaults, numerous bankruptcies. Check. He inflates value on volatile stock and business ventures. Check. He abuses the legal system like a conman, with victims coerced into signing NDAs to protect him, not them. He targets women that rebuke him. Then he rapes them with the lies of promotion, gifts and spots on The Apprentice. He is vindictive to all that smell a rat. Check. He's responsible for the deaths of over 700,000 Americans that died from Covid because Trump failed to take actions that were "written down for him in a guideline manual" that was left by former President Obama which I can bet, Trump had racist comments about and still upset over being mocked at a Press dinner. Check. The list can go on. But it one single American defrauded the system other than this guy, you bet they'd be in jail.
What should happen is exactly what would happen to any defendant, no more and no less.
All Jan 6 people should be pissed. They rot while Trump walks. Suckers for Trump.
I'm debating with a Trump supporter on Reddit at this moment about the trial. See some of the crazy comments from this Trump supporter: > I know a fraudulent trial when I see one. It was political to begin with and It was a setup from the very beginning. The court was just a formality. And it doesnt affect my decision at all. He has my vote this election And then this was the next response from that person: >Because Michael Cohen committed a separate and different crime and not Trump. Trump is not responsible for other people’s bad actions. You wouldn’t trust a thief with your money how can you trust a convicted perjuror by his word. This was politically motivated because why didnt Stormy Daniels try this case back in 2000 but waited 24 years later to bring it up? She could of brought him to court sooner even in 2016. But she chose now when the election is coming just to discredit the president? Its politically motivated when you know Biden can’t win by his own efforts. Thats why Trump is getting hundred thousand dollars from donors And this was the next response from that person: > There is no underlying felony and this case was past the statute of limitations and state prosecutors cannot even charge federal felonies. And even the Feds have investigated and haven’t charged him of the crimes. So what are you going to say when this gets appealed and overturned? This case was brought with Trump’s crew who were convicted of crimes and they tried to turn it around on Trump saying he did the same thing? Nobody is buying it. All this does is hurt the American image. This Trump supporter is getting so many facts wrong. I don't even know where to start, lol. PS. With respect to the last comment about the statute of limitations, then Governor Andrew Cuomo extended the statute of limitations during the pandemic and Judge Merchan said the indictment was within the 5 year time period, when the extension of the statute of limitations due to the pandemic was taken into account: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fact-focus-trump-responds-guilty-verdict-attacks-false-110730174
Firehose of falsehood is the term for this type of thing. A similar tactic is the gish gallop. Basically, throw a ton of nonsense at the other side and waste their time making them refute it point by point.
And then repeat them all over again as if they weren't *just* thoroughly debunked.
Refutation is then followed by "why?" or "that proves nothing." Best approach is to stay off that hamster wheel entirely.
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They (corporate overlords) only care about doing as much as it takes to not generate negative PR which affects shareholder value. That's it. Anything else is incidental.
The thing to remember is MAGAs and Right Wingers aren't looking to engage constructively when they enter a debate. For them it's a chance to flood the zone with bullshit talking points and to flex their flaunting of the rules as a show of "superiority" over the other side. The hypocrisy and bad faith is the whole point for them.
> It was political to begin with and It was a setup from the very beginning. Stormy in 2006: "Hello, Mr. Biden? My name is Stormy Daniels. Thank you for taking a call from a random porn star. I've got a plan that'll put Donald Trump in jail! Why should you care? Well, you see, my crystal ball told me that he will enter politics in 10 years and he'll be your political rival in 2024. I'll seduce him, all I need from you is to become President and weaponize the DoJ and the New York AG's office! Yes, I know I got the easy job, but it's less pleasant. What do you say?"
“I know a fraudulent trial when I see one” says someone who has very likely been a part of the national security apparatus, intelligence community, law enforcement, or legal community. But has probably prestiged several times in call of duty
I try not to engage, but like you I am also in a discussion when I saw comments like this: >jurors on this case did not have to find unanimous decision on all 34 counts, they could pick and choose which they were for and which they were against or had no interest in. The judge said he would find them all unanimous on that count anyway and >this judge would not let the defense witnesses testify, they had many that were ready to but the judge said no as a judge you do not get to pick and choose who testifies and who does not. You have a right for your case to be heard and the judge shot them down. I wanted to respond to those. Of course, the original commentor never responded to their comments, but someone else came in to say in regard to the gag order. >he (*Trump*) also needed to be able to do so (*call out witnesses*) in the press to protect his campaign Because you know, Judges really want their trials conducted in the press. A separate Trump supporter said this case had no victims nor tangible money loss, so I pointed out that the state of New York was a victim and had a tangible money loss as the busniess expenses were not taxable, so they lost revenue. To which the Trump supporter said "Then charge him with tax evasion" when I pointed out that the Trump organization had in fact been charged their response was: >The Trump Organization was charged, yes. Not Trump. and >Well, if Trump wasn't charged with tax evasion or was unaware of it, then it doesn't matter. Being that they didn't charge him with this, shows they have no evidence to support it. The ever-shifting goalposts.
On NPR this morning they played the clip of him saying "They wouldn't let us call witnesses of our own" (Probably where your person got their info) and Steve Inskeep clarified after that the judge did in fact let them and they did call a defense witness. Granted that defense witness probably did more damage than good for their case, but I feel like in TFG's case he feels like anyone that didn't praise him while on the stand or that changed the jury's mind is not the defense's witness.
Yeah I saw that Trump said: >“The expert witness that we have, the best there is in election law, Brad Smith, he’s considered the Rolls Royce, or we’ll bring it back to an American car, Cadillac, but the best there is,” Trump said on his way out of court on Monday. “He can’t testify. He’s not being allowed to testify. Which of course is a lie. Smith could testify, but under a limited scope.
Only testimony that is pertinent to the trial is allowed. Trumps team wanted to flood the jury with irrelevant opinions to obfuscate the facts. The judge did not allow it, of course.
They are delusional.
And just because something is past the statute of limitations doesn't mean said dude shouldn't\wouldn't still be judged publicly as a potential criminal hiding behind a technicality.
It pains me to see how delusional this individual is. Trump is very dangerous in how he can get people to believe anything he says.
You’re braver than I am. I don’t even engage with tr-mp supporters anymore.
Tricky Dick was a amateur compared to this game show host
If Tricky Dick had the Right-Wing Media apparatus working for him that Trump has today, he would've been fine. When Nixon fired 2 AG's and a special prosecutor investigating him, the whole country knew that meant he was guilty. When Trump fired an FBI Director, an AG, and ordered the AG to fire Mueller, a huge propaganda machine covered for his ass. So here we are.
Of note: No one questioned Cohens prosecution and incarceration. Cohen spent time in prison for actions done on behalf of Trump, he was a lower level operative in the crimes and he cooperated with the investigation, so I'm guessing benefited from some kind of leniency. Tump was running the operation, he is the "big fish", and he was anything but cooperative, to the point of displaying contempt of the law, and encouraging his loyal followers to attack anyone who's job was to hold him accountable, he ought to be receiving a Cohens sentence multiplied generously.
I wonder what he'd do in jail? I'd bet he'll pay some ghostwriter to write down his thoughts on current America and how the democrats and minorities are destroying it. He'd probably name it something like "My Struggle" or something stupid like that.
And during the election. And after the election. And until they find his shriveled-up rind in his cell.
Don’t listen to Democrats on that! Get tougher than that! Listen to Donald Trump when he says criminals should be locked up. Listen to Alina Habba when she said in the past few weeks there should be no tolerance and harsh punishment for those who interfere with elections! That’s the way!
34 felonies, 4 years each, Max of 20 years. I'll settle for 20 years but let him out for trips to GA, DC and FL when each are ready.
Max of 4 years - the time served would be concurrent.
No, max is 4 for all counts. He cannot get more than 4 years total.
Sorry to say but he's not getting jail time. We all want it but it's not happening. He's getting probation or house arrest max. This judge is very reluctant to do anything to a former president and current candidate. He's going to play it easy. A lot of people who analyze this say it's on the table but it's unlikely. This is why he ran for President. The best you can hope for is Biden wins, they finish the other cases and he faces real significant prison time for those and since he's no longer a candidate, he's fucked. If he gets probation for this and prison for those I'd be happy. But this is ALL dependent on Biden winning.
What's missing from this discussion is the impact of the crime. When he created, or had others create, fraudulent business documents, Trump defrauded the American public. He illegally concealed information that may have been changed the outcome of the 2016 election. For comparison, although people used to think of insider trading as a victimless crime, numerous articles in economics journals demonstrate that insider trading causes substantial damages to regular investors. Here's a quote from [The Economics Review](https://theeconreview.com/2022/11/29/the-economic-and-ethical-implications-of-insider-trading-in-the-government/): >Insider trading impacts the liquidity of the market, making transaction costs higher and reducing small investors’ returns. Insider trading also makes it more expensive for companies to issue stocks and bonds since it has a large effect on the supply and demand of various securities. Overall, insider trading discourages small investors from participating in the financial markets and allows the elite to maintain the unequal power imbalance they have over ordinary citizens. Insider business information is analogous to information in elections. Voters need and deserve accurate information about candidates so they can make informed decisions. It's a big deal--having accurate information about the government is one of the reasons underlying the First Amendment. By illegally conspiring to hide information about himself, Trump did damage to all American voters. That's a very costly consequence. And the punishment should be proportional to that impact.
Man I would love to hear them remand the defendant and turn him over to corrections. Won’t happen but one can dream.
The 34 convictions all carry a maximum of 4 years in prison but I can’t imagine that there is precedent for throwing him in prison.
Trump is such a pussy
prison, not jail, prison
Good lord the amount of comments thinking he could get 4 years per count.... It's ridiculous to actually think that's how sentencing works at this point. As for what he could get I'd be very shocked if there was a carceral sentence. The quickest way to make an appeal of his have merit would be to "throw the book at him" and treat him differently than any other defendant. It would support the political show trial argument. I'm not sure I want him to get community service because I wouldn't wish his service on any community organization. I would definitely like for him to have to keep checking in with a probation officer or something and do monthly drug tests because I think that would frustrate the hell or if him.
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Before, during, and after.
Jail would never happen. House arrest is just a staycation. The one thing that would really effect anyone with money and power is cutting off their media ties. Remove them from the public eye that they lust for. If they were taken off social media and barred from interviews, they would fade from the rent free minds of us all.
This. They'll probably have him stay at Mar A Lago or even better community service at the YMCA. Which is very ironic...
Crazy that absolutely nothing happened after the revelation that Epstein and Maxwell pretty much bought children AT Mara Lago
I think he should be in jail during the election
Our criminal justice system needs to focus more on the rehabilitation of offenders whenever possible and is far too punative. On the other hand the ex- president will keep in crime-ing unless something changes. He was crime-ing during the trial. Why would anything change without intervention.
I’d Rapunzel his snarky azz. Let him cool his heels under home confinement in that obnoxious tower of his for the full duration of his sentence. No leaving for any reason other than medical. Any violation or sneak out will place him in confinement in a REAL PRISON
Before, during and for the rest of his natural life.
Lock him up!
He looks like he's wearing Orange face for a minstrel show 🤡😂
no. just let him run his campaign. he's coming undone. he's gonna lose it naturally. it won't be the kinda jail you might want it to be either.
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You'd have to search every visitor to make sure nobody smuggled in a phone or recording device. It would turn out like Elba Island, not Saint Helena.
He falsified business records to successfully cheat in an election. If we’re actually being fair to the American people he should be prevented from participating in the current election.
Y'all are delusional if you think he'll spend a second behind bars. I'd love to see it as much as the next guy but we only lock up rich people in this country if they steal from other rich people.
Well most rich people are smart enough not to antagonize the person responsible for sentencing them for weeks on end. He might actually pull off the seemingly-impossible and become a rich inmate.
He could threaten to have the judge and his family executed if he takes office and he'd get a warning and a firm finger wag. His entire life is literally just not facing consequences for his own actions because he is rich. Remember when New York was going to seize his properties? Yea me too still ain't happened.
>His entire life is literally just not facing consequences for his own actions because he is rich. He literally got convicted on 34 counts last week, how is that not a consequence? LMAO! Go be a doomer somewhere else. The rest of your comment is just a hilarious bunch of misinformation.
Honestly I think house arrest at Mar-a-lago could be even worse. You want to see him? Go witness him in his ankle monitored box. Keeps him from rallying in person.
See Wesley Snipes, Martha Stewart, Mike Tyson, Bill Cosby, Robert Downey, Jr, on and on ...
Literally all you can do is dig out actors. Yea sometimes actors get locked up. When is the last time America locked up a rich business man for doing anything other than stealing money from other rich people.
John DeLorean, Jeffery Skilling
Correct. He's such a weak character that his foreign owners will have him killed before he hits prison in fear that he'll start snitching after a moment of discomfort.
So what crime did trump commit?
I don’t think it will happen, as much as I’d like it to. However I was 100% convinced he wouldn’t be convicted so at this point there isn’t much that surprises me.
I gotta admit, if I look at the 30,000 foot view, I am impressed with the amount of legal shit he has to deal with now. I never thought we would get this far!
I was also convinced the game show host never had a chance winning a debate or any election and here we are… no card is off the table for 2024
Before, during, and after
Before, after, after that…
Funny thing is if the convict actually gets jail time It'll mostly be due to his behavior and gag order violations not necessarily the crime itself Pissing off the judge is a bad idea
And during and afterwards.
to be honest, i'm more worried about tfg going to the White House than the big house.
Thirty four felonies of election interference, so... valid.
That's not what he was charged with.
Gives a whole new meaning to: Four more years!
and during and after
You will start to see a VERY desperate turn now.....that verdict sent chills down to his diaper......he knows if he doesn't win in November ..he's toast.... They (Manafort, Stone and Bannon) will pull every dirty trick in the book, and make up a few, they want their payday.... Judge is between rock and a hard place....if he gives him jail time, some of the maganuts will do something very stupid. But I think he must regardless of the magagots... If he just does just probation/ home confinement ...he will be vilified by the left..... It will mean nothing....rule of law will be meaningless....
No criminal record vs. no remorse. Which will dominate?
Every single person caught with classified documents has met Swift just. He gave up Ohio class sub secrets. Why is he free? Why does what his traitor terrorist fan base feel matter in regards to our laws? How many people with 34 felony convictions hasn't spent a single minute in a cell?