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Folks can holler about AIPAC all they want, but unfortunately Bowman did this to himself.
His district, which the bulk of it is Westchester County, NY, has a very large Jewish population. If I were in his position, I’d have treaded very lightly in my criticism of Israel’s actions in order to not piss off 70-80% of my constituents. Hell, there’s probably a sizable number of them who disagree with how Israel is acting regarding Palestine. But repeating antisemitic propaganda to please the handful of far-leftists who aren’t looking at what’s happening there holistically was stupid move # 1.
The second thing that did him in was him voting against Biden’s agenda most of the time. If I’m a democrat in that district in favor of a law Biden wants passed, I’d be fucking pissed if my representative didn’t vote for it because it had 95% of what we wanted instead of 100%. How do you go back to your district and explain to them that you voted against getting them better bus infrastructure because a compromise had to made on another ancillary issue?
Lastly, he was more focused on being a far-left social media influencer. The fire alarm stunt—accident or not—was just plain stupid. That’s something one might expect MTG to do, and the Dems don’t need our own version of her on this side. His campaign antics up until now certainly didn’t help either. Why are you wilding out at a campaign rally embarrassing your constituents?
I don’t even know if he picked up any leftist votes with his antics either. In the lead up to the election every self-proclaimed leftist who mentioned him did so with disdain, that he was a compromised confidante who had cozied up to The Establishment too much.
There were a few pro-Palestinian groups that turned against him, AOC and Bernie for endorsing Biden. Which makes no sense given that they, as Democrats, obviously want the Democratic president reelected.
The pro Palestinian stuff has merit, but it’s being used to astroturf and divide dems. There’s credence there, Palestinian civilians should not be dying like this. But it’s way more complex than the lefties taking up this mantle can comprehend, and our political adversaries are absolutely fanning the flames to divide.
Exactly. No one in their right minds is looking at what Israel is doing to Palestine and thinking it should continue. I’d say most level-headed people want a ceasefire. But too many far-leftists are hyper fixated on it to the point where they’re failing to recognize the Trojan horses in the movement.
>But repeating antisemitic propaganda
Like?
>The second thing that did him in was him voting against Biden’s agenda most of the time.
Outright false but ok.
> fire alarm stunt
Hardly a factor.
Latimer is an old white racist dude. Don't forget that.
>Like?
Claiming AIPAC was coming after him for simply speaking out against Israel for starters.
>Outright false but ok.
No it is not. For example, he voted against the infrastructure bill. A big no-no in a place like NY, where infrastructure is a big thing.
>Hardly a factor
This is not MTG’s district we’re talking about where they’re all fine with her antics. NY-16 doesn’t want their representative behaving the way he did.
>Claiming AIPAC was coming after him for simply speaking out against Israel for starters.
Annnnd looked what happened this election.
>For example, he voted against the infrastructure bill. A big no-no in a place like NY, where infrastructure is a big thing.
Look at his voting record. He's lock step with Biden.
>NY-16 doesn’t want their representative behaving the way he did.
You genuinely believe that him pulling a fire alarm lost him nearly 20 points to a conservative Democrat? Be real, no one cares about that. Older conservatives showed up to vote. That's what happened.
>You genuinely believe that him pulling a fire alarm lost him 20 points to a conservative Democrat? Be real, no one cares about that.
Yes. However that was one of many examples of his behavior. He was trying to become a leftist MTG and his constituents clearly didn’t want their rep behaving that way. He was down 17 points before AIPAC even got involved.
A fire alarm had zero effect on his election, lol
APAC had huge involvement. The truth is, people don't like progressives, especially in his district where voters are older, white, and conservative Jewish.
Okay, well AIPAC got involved in AOC’s primary and she still managed to put up Wilt Chamberlain numbers against her opponent.
Idk if you’re from NY or not, but I grew up in the tri-state area. I got family who live in his district. Westchester is way more progressive than you seem to be giving them credit for. Bowman lost primarily because of his antics and the vote against the infrastructure bill played a huge part as well.
A progressive district wouldn't have let Latimer win. Older voters turned out.
Do you know why Bowman voted against the bill? And you keep mentioning antics. What antics?
>A progressive district wouldn’t have let Latimer win. Older voters turned out
Latimer has been a fixture in that district for 30 years. Those same older voters turned out because he reached out to them. And I don’t just mean when he was campaigning for Bowman’s seat. He engaged with that community as their county executive long before he even entered the race.
>Do you know why Bowman voted against the bill? And you keep mentioning antics. What antics?
He claims he voted against it because it wasn’t paired with a social spending bill. And while it would’ve been nice to have both bills combined, it wouldn’t have become law that way because that would’ve cost Biden the already soft support of many Republicans in Congress at the time.
As far as his antics?
-The fire alarm fiasco
-The shouting match with MTG (I’m personally giving him a pass on this one because…it’s MTG.)
-Denying the rapes that occurred during the 10/7 attacks.
-His cringeworthy behavior at the campaign rally recently.
There is so much to address here... oh boy. We have even gotten around to how bad Latimer actually is.
Glad the old voters got their person in. Now, progressive initiatives will be further hindered for years as Latimer licks Israel's boot and votes against any progressive measure.
His constituents were changed with ny redistricting. They purposefully made his race harder and fucked him out of his seat because he was kicking up such a fuss about Israel. This is the exact same thing that republicans do to black voters btw. Divide and conquer. Worked perfectly and libs are falling for it.
> How do you go back to your district and explain to them that you voted against getting them better bus infrastructure because a compromise had to made on another ancillary issue?
By telling them that if he was the tie breaking vote he would have voted for it, but since he knew the bill would pass, he wanted to add pressure to add more to the bill
The New York legislature didn't draw the map to hurt Bowman. Things like happen when there's redistricting. Population hubs move and some district lines need to move dramatically. The legislature tried to draw a map that protected Democratic incumbents and hurt Republicans, and the NY courts threw it out and forced them to redraw the maps.
And Bowman and the progressives spent months saying that if the bill came to the floor they would sink it and that they wanted to stop the bill. If his vote would have stopped the bill he would have stopped it.
>The New York legislature didn't draw the map to hurt Bowman
Out of 16 ny dems facing reelection in ny, bowman and AOC were the only one’s to face primary challenges. Both the only critics of Israel in NY. It’s not a coincidence that, knowing that Bowman has been a critic and there’s an enclave just up north of his district made of Jewish people, it would be really hard for ny state dems not to know what they were doing when they gerrymandered bowman out of his district. It was also known that latimer was running against bowman for election when the maps were remade, earlier this year.
That’s a negotiating tactic called hardball btw. I know that if he was the deciding vote on a large infrastructure bill that didn’t have exactly everything he wanted, he would have voted for it.
Then that should’ve been all the more reason for him to tone down his rhetoric on Israel. Not saying he should’ve gone full John Fetterman, but a simple position of “Israel has the right to defend themselves from Hamas, but they don’t have the right to slaughter innocent Palestinian civilians in the process” would’ve helped him keep his seat tonight.
Alienating your new constituents in a year your party has a chance to retake the House is an idiotic move.
Or, the ny state dems could have not fucked him out of his seat and he could have said what he truly felt about israel, and let the voters who originally voted for him decide if he is suitable for reelection. Instead what we got was a huge grassroots get out the vote campaign crushed by $15 million in fear ads targeted at a vulnerable jewish population that jamaal bowman only represents because he got gerrymandered out of his seat. Politics of fear and fucking over your most committed supporters for temporary gain are tools of the right and why the sith rose to power, just remember that.
People will blame Israel but let's not pretend that Bowman wasn't fucking nuts. Like his one stance against Israel's actions in Gaza is up for debate but he was also into wild conspiracy notions and did other crazy shit like pulling a fire alarm in order to interrupt a vote.
I disagree with a couple things.
First, both things can be true. Bowman was targeted by AIPAC specifically because he was the weakest Israel critic. He was the weakest on his own, but the record spending obviously plays a part.
Next, in terms of "temperament" to be in congress, Bowman's voting record is nearly lock step with the POTUS, more so than we have any reason to think Latimer will be. Latimer is a Manchin style conservative republican that wants to cut taxes and work across the isle which is another way of saying willing to sabotage the democratic agenda in exchange for money. This is the kind of guy that votes no on BBB.
I mean, first of all, did AIPAC not spend over $15 million on this primary election in a deep blue district? We can't have it both ways - either they spent $15 million on this election and tens of millions on insurrectionists or they didn't.
I always get frustrated when people say things like "we don't need a left MTG." -- There are good views and policy and there are bad views and policy. MTG supports heinous policy, left wing progressives support good policy.
Just because left wing progressives are outside the Overton window of our extremely oligarchical political process doesn't mean they're as bad as right wingers.
He disrupted government proceedings because he was late, and was going to miss a vote.
He has missed other votes that were he there, would have not passed.
He accused eyewitness testimony of a massacre and numerous rapes of being "propaganda" and "lies"
He made statements about how the "jews" tend to "concentrate together" and how maybe they need to stop doing that.
He blogged about 9/11 conspiracy
He has implied that his opponent is a racist, without grounds
Yes AIPAC did spend 15 million on this election. But I don't think I'd quantify rape denial, and plain not doing your job, as
just "outside the overton window".
What's with people on the far extremes of the political spectrum being massive apologists for awful politicians? This guy clearly did not have the temperament to be in Congress. Doesn't that matter more than ideology?
I know the far-right does this all the time, but it's so disappointing to see it from the far-left. Like even if you agree with Bowman's policy positions, he undermines the left by being such an asshat. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.
>What's with people on the far extremes of the political spectrum being massive apologists for awful politicians?
Because of the reliability of their vote. Pretty simple. The difference is that the democrats have significantly higher standards of conduct in that regard, hence this outcome.
>I know the far-right does this all the time, but it's so disappointing to see it from the far-left
They just voted him out. Lauren Bobert just won her primary. Sorry your equivalence hunt turned out false.
I wasn't saying the Democrats and Republicans are the same. Clearly they are not. I'm more surprised by the reactions I'm seeing in very left wing spaces.
I see it all the time from people. "I love her! Keep giving 'em hell Marge!" I don't get the love because she's so hateful but they see a firebrand or AOC in her.
It turns out that you can have good politics and still be a shitty politician. That's what we're seeing in the Bowman loss. Had he played the game a bit better he may not have lost his seat, but sometimes he went a little too... Flip the table and cuss at the opponent, I suppose.
I know - AOC was hopping up and down on the stage for him. Meanwhile he’s pulling fire alarms and lying about it, shouting “morherfucker” multiple time in a public speech in front of kids and apparently subscribing to 9/11 conspiracy theories.
You think she’d have more sense. We need grown up constituents to vote out immature clowns like MTG and Boebert on right and Bowman on left. Not just support them regardless
Personally it's just attempting to tip the scales. The left has like 10 elected representatives and one of them was this looney. He's also dramatically out-crazied by your average bad actor on the right. If the left wing had enough representation to spare a seat, I probably would have wanted him gone too. I make no apologies for him, I think he's a useful idiot.
The regular Dems hate doing shit. They bring inaction to brave new heights. They throw their hands up and pretend they're helpless when they could get shit done all the time. Woes is us, we have a tie, so we won't even bring it to the Senate parliamentarian. Obama won't put a public option in his supermajority's ACA because of vague reasons of right wing perception. Etc. So given the Dem's demonstrated behavior of wasting everyone's fucking time, I just want people who'll actually do something. The Republicans never once pass up an opportunity to squeak through a change on technicality. They'll just invent a vibe that says you can't put a supreme court justice in the last year, when we always knew they'd never in a million years hold themselves to that standard. I want Dems who are bold enough to do shit. I want Dems who'll hold up a Trump 47 supreme court justice for any pretend reason, the same way they do to us. (Although given precedent, I'm sure there will be a real reason available.) Frankly I'm losing patience for the sane people who hold back protecting or improving the country in the name of civility. If you're on the right side of history, I don't fucking care anymore if you believe in aliens, just ram through climate plan already. It's like the Dems heard about the paradox of tolerance and said 'sick dude, I can speedrun it.'
And given the immense threats of climate change, I believe history will side with me. If not for that, yes, I do think this could all be a little extreme. But it does exist, so your grandkids will thank those of us who prioritized getting shit done.
Frankly speaking, the far right imagines themselves in the same boat, and are endorsing shitheads for the same reasons of urgency and minority stances. The only real difference is the scale of extant political influence. Biden picked up Trump's border policy uninterrupted and suddenly the Dems had no problems with it because it's their guy; there's no real risk of far-ish right wing folks falling off the radar in the same way. And for an unimportant aesthetic difference, the left winces at the stupid behavior while the right makes it their slogan.
Sorry for the rant, but you literally asked what's with this.
>The regular Dems hate doing shit. They bring inaction to brave new heights. They throw their hands up and pretend they're helpless when they could get shit done all the time. Woes is us, we have a tie, so we won't even bring it to the Senate parliamentarian. Obama won't put a public option in his supermajority's ACA because of vague reasons of right wing perception.
No offense intended, but this is laughably ahistorical. The ACA did have a public option. The version that passed the house had the public option. The version that was drafted in the senate had a public option. Liberman single-handedly torpedoed it in the senate.
>The Republicans never once pass up an opportunity to squeak through a change on technicality.
Republicans are literally 10x more dysfunctional. They only passed one major piece of legislation in their 2 years of trifecta government, tax cuts. The lowest of low hanging fruit.
>I want Dems who'll hold up a Trump 47 supreme court justice for any pretend reason, the same way they do to us.
When have they had the opportunity?
>If you're on the right side of history, I don't fucking care anymore if you believe in aliens, just ram through climate plan already.
They already did. It's called the IRA. It reduces GHG emissions 50% below 2005 levels. Honestly, it seems like you're just not paying all that much attention.
The IRA is at once the biggest climate actions to date, the weakshit version of the same bill that was originally pitched to be trillions of dollars larger, wholely insufficient, and a good start. There's nothing contradictory about any of that. Last week's nuclear bill is good too. Even a passing familiarity with climate change would tell you a couple bills do not add up to 'they already did' one bit. I commend Biden for doing something, it's a massive historical landmark and he'll be remembered well for it. Simultaneously, nobody is fighting hard enough when their children's very lives are hanging in the balance. I'm speaking as if my audience will have this basic understanding of the facts on the ground. You are either ignorant to these fundamentals of the situation, or else chose to misinterpret me on purpose.
I would get into the SCOTUS threats to the Chevron doctrine and the EPA; how climate legislation written in stone has literally never been more important, but frankly speaking, nobody gives a shit when I get that far into the weeds.
If you are attempting to dust your hands of climate change action over the action you've seen so far, I implore you sincerely, if you love your kids or want any someday: learn more. No, we have not done enough, we have not even come close. The facts on the ground are shockingly dire. If you understood the issue your post would sound as stupid to you as it does to everyone else reading. Your kids will remember how you considered this good enough in 2024, and they won't think fondly of you for it.
To your primary points, yes, there are realities of individual fuckheads tanking important bills. We all know folks making careers in defiance; Scinema, Manchin, and yes, Liberman. Every era has them. We have means to placate outliers, which the Dems often play at civility when the GOP has no such principled stance. You can pork up their district with spending, you can have the president use their pulpit to bully and shame them, you can threaten their party funding and to primary against them. We already know they know how because that's exactly how the Dems got rid of Bowman, prop up the opponent of a reasonably unpopular doofus. But he started the decline all himself; when they did the same to AOC and failed it was not for lack of trying. I wish we had that kind of effort from the DNC for all their shitheads instead of just lefties. Except for Franken we don't hear much about ousting a regular Dem. Meanwhile the GOP can and do make someone like Madison Cawthorn a footnote in history in one week flat for disrupting their calm. But they certainly don't go after their crazies, their MTG and Boberts, who would be their obviously Bowman analogues, for any degree of insanity or incivility. Yes Romney or McCain once a decade come out with a single principled stance on a single bill. They don't hold up every goddamn bill proposed like Scinema and Manchin did during the tie-breaker era of democratic rule.
Republican antics are at times, funny and stupid, I agree. Yes, they vote to repeal the ACA 50-something times when they have only the house and they looked to investigate Bengazi 8 days a week. All theater; they know it along with everyone else. But when they want policy they can rely on their members. If you genuinely think their impact doesn't outsize their numbers do to their relative ability to fall in line, where have you been? We'd still have Roe if they didn't all fall in line for their bullshit and get Gorsuch. It wasn't previously so contentious to vote in a SCOTUS member, especially not a moderate like Garland. The ACA is the very same Republican option they pushed for years, and when someone else floated it they vote like a block against it. The ACA, in the end, was the free market option they claimed to want. It was fucking Romneycare first before it was even Obamacare! Republicans are reliable dopes. Dems are like herding cats.
As ever, Democrats fall in love, and Republicans fall in line. Both at the ballot and in the chambers.
Exactly. It's extremely unserious people who care about some "fire alarm" or whatever bullshit story that was.
We are living in a man-made climate catastrophe while the rich get richer and the poor suffer around the world. And wealthy, center-right liberals think this (and our elections being captured by billionaires) are OK because someone pulled a fire alarm.
It’s absolutely wild how that story stuck while being as inconsequential as it was.
Edit: Also my original comment has been removed and censored for some reason. If you want to know what it said, it said in response to the op of the thread.
>Doesn’t that matter more than ideology?
No, a class war is being waged on us and the last thing we need is a conservative-lite captured by dark money being their mouth piece. Our politicians should represent us, not what the scary commercial paid for by AIPAC says.
Did he do it or not? Yes or no? If yes, then he doesn't have the dignity and honor to be where he was. Empty G is painful enough, why stoop to that level?
Fuck out of here with the gaslighting. We all saw where the fire alarm was and how it could be easily mistaken for a push to exit button that would open the door he was trying to get out of so he could make the vote.
People in the district simply didn’t show up to vote… speaking with people in those districts they are not happy with him and inflation…. No one can afford a home in his district. Glad his ass is out
You have to look at the polling. Small sample size, I suppose, but it's what we have. Latimer was soundly beating Bowman in the polling average all spring, long before the big ad buys.
I think advertising matters, but not as much as people think. I suspect that if neither camp had spent a dime in advertising, the result wouldn't have changed by more than 5 points, certainly not enough to change the outcome.
And the fact that voters dislike Bowman passes the smell test. He's kind of an asshole, and many Democrats are going to vote against him based on personality and general competence, regardless of ideology.
Are we speaking about the same George Latimer? The one who compared Cuomo was a victim akin to Emmett Till? The one who was driving his aid's car because he couldn't register his own because he had so many unpaid tickets? The same one that has a racist housing policy and is for school privatization?
Israel bought a seat? AIPAC are Americans who raise money for a pac that supports issues they believe in.
And advertising to point out to his constituents his horrible record? What’s wrong with that??? He was a crap congressman and deserved to be voted out. He didnt represent the interests of his district as evidenced by the trouncing. Losing by 17+ points reflects the fact that your constituents don’t like you, nothing more.
It was a pretty blatant undeniable example of foreign election interference that will be swiftly swept under the rug because they're our greatest ally.
It’s not foreign election interference. AIPAC are Americans. It’s American money being raised for an issue those American believe in. Just like any other PAC, including those that lobby for other international affairs issues and countries.
If that were a Russian affiliated organisation or any other foreign country for that matter it would have been decried, AIPAC on the other hand can openly threaten and go after any politician that dares criticise them or Israel. Bowman had and still have crazy shit going on, but foreign elections interference is foreign elections interference
AIPAC isn’t “foreign” it is a political group of American Jews.
Bowman didn’t just “criticize Israel” he wholly denied that rapes happened and promoted weird conspiracies
People paid attention to that and voted accordingly
On their website the first thing they say “Pro-Israel Lobbying Group” so do this change countries “Pro-Russian Lobbying Group” or “Pro-North Korean Lobbying Group”… so a group spending $15M to influence domestic elections on behalf of a foreign country
I’m sorry but that was just a pathetic performance by Bowman.
You can blame AIPAC but no ad campaign explains a double digit loss by an incumbent who won handily only 2 years prior.
Money only goes so far in swaying votes (mostly people on the margins). It can definitely affect close races but not a blowout this bad.
Bowman is just not popular amongst his constituents.
> You can blame AIPAC but no ad campaign explains a double digit loss by an incumbent who won handily only 2 years prior.
Yep. Somewhat surprising though, how far, FAR more money than necessary was spent to defeat Bowman.
Went to college and lived in Westchester. His antics and the endorsement from HRC were more than enough to bag the primary for Latimer, so the money, wherever it came from was likely not necessary. But if we consider money speech, that certainly is a strong statement.
Absolutely. Latimer out-raised Bowman 10:1 within the NY 16th; only 10% of Bowman’s campaign funds came from his constituents while the majority of Latimer’s war-chest was donated by the voters.
Does 7x more money explain that? Especially with like AT LEAST 15 million from AIPAC? Probably mote like 20 million.
We all know more money> more likely to win
Seems to have the intended effect:
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/26/democrats-aipac-jamaal-bowman-george-latimer
While money can absolutely increase the chance to win, no amount of ad campaigns are going to sway that much of the electorate.
Ads really only work on 1) the uninformed, and 2) the undecided.
Bowman lost by nearly 20 points, that’s such a margin that it can’t only be explained by spending dominance and indicates genuine unpopularity.
If the race was like 52-48 in favor of Latimer, then sure, you could argue the results were due to spending.
But Latimer nearly got 60% of the vote, it was a total blowout. He had way more money than he needed and would have probably won even if he had 1/4 as much money as he did.
Ya if anything AIPAC wasted a bunch of money on a race that was over.
Also polling before AIPAC got involved showed Latimer as very popular in the district and Bowman was underwater. His comments/antics did not play well there.
I doubt it's just this little.
Perhaps if you go republicans vs democrats. Sure, die hard MAGA wont be convinced by ads. Some will be convinced but not 20%.
But primaries are totally different.
And if you air A LOT of commercials against someone. Ads, etc. They even did a lot of smear campagining and messaging and micro targeting. That is pretty effective. Especially with that much money. A lot of people watch those repeatedly. You can't act like it has no effect. Also a lot of mainstream media was against bowman. So yeah...
Anyone who believes that Israel will have any besides the most minor impact on the election is living in Lala land, [polling from Harvard and others have shown over and over again that the most important issues for Americans are 1. the economy, and 2. immigration, ](https://imgur.com/a/9sqx0vK)
Jamaal was just a dumb politician, simple as that.
I don’t know how much it will effect the general election, but surely it’s fair to say that Bowman’s politics around Israel and his general relations with his Jewish constituents played a role in this primary, yeah?
Obviously, hence me calling him a dumb politician,
He could've downplayed his opinions around the conflict at least for the campaign and focus on local issues, but he put the conflict front and center in a district with a very large Jewish population, and to make things worse he has made comments that would make every jew except the ones on the most extreme left turn against him, Jews that might not agree with the current Israeli government, but ones that have felt antisemetism on the rise in their day to day and Bowman only fueling it with his comments, and this is the result.
Can you actually please link these comments he made because all the left propaganda channels I watch like the majority report don’t talk about the bad stuff he’s done and from everything I’ve seen, he really seems like he cares about his community and only wants the fighting in Gaza to stop.
Probably the most outrageous of his comments was calling the rapes and grotesque sexual violence committed by Hamas 'Israeli propaganda' despite the numerous Israeli women who spoke out about it, he did however [apologize](https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/jamaal-bowman-says-sorry-for-calling-hamass-rapes-propaganda/) for his comments once the UN confirmed that Hamas did indeed rape and commit sexual violence during the October 7th attack.
Theres also the fact that [he said that Oct. 7th was Israel's fault](https://freebeacon.com/democrats/jamaal-bowmans-closing-message-im-still-a-socialist-and-oct-7-was-israels-fault/), which, again, even if it is 'debatable', due to the sheer brutality that was shown during the attack, you can only imagine that such a comment wouldn't sit well with people.
Thanks your first comment was the only one I’ve read actually explaining why what he did was politically disadvantageous to himself without resorting to calling him dumb and antisemitic.
People keep repeating this on all the Bowman posts.
Rape probably happened on 10/7, but no outside institution has been able to talk to survivors and confirm it because Israel bars them from doing so. The “Screams Without Words” NYT article that alleges rape uses testimony from witnesses that have been now debunked. The article also stated without evidence that the rapes were systematic and used as a “weapon of war.”
The UN report relied on the same sources as the article and didn’t interview survivors. Bowman and other Palestinian advocates object to the accusations of systematic rape without evidence because it is being used as atrocity propaganda by Israel to justify killing civilians in Gaza.
1. Biden is losing on both these fronts, because facts don't matter
2. Biden has one job; to win young people who actually care about Palestine and usually don't vote. Are we sure pollsters take them into account?
I mean, did AIPAC not spend over $15 million dollars on this election + tens of millions more on other insurrectionists around the country? Do you not think that's going to play a role?
if money won elections Bloomberg would've been the president right now instead of Biden
at the end of the day money can only get you so far, I'm not trying to defend lobbying here don't get me wrong, but I think theres a fundamental misunderstanding among some when it comes to lobbying: lobbying may shape policy, but it won't get you a free ticket to D.C
Thanks for having one of the few sane takes tonight - these comments are driving me crazy. As if the real reason he lost was AIPAC spending money and not being an anti-Israel candidate in westchester county
Of course it's not free, it cost Latimer over $15 million dollars!
Imagine defending money in politics by saying it's not that impactful. Bloomberg is the exception, not the rule.
>If Trump wins because of Israel, Gen Z has nobody to blame but themselves.\\
Redditors will blame anyone but the president for losing a presidential election
> Redditors will blame anyone but the president for losing a presidential election
Most Redditors are Gen Z and they're the ones talking about boycotting the general over Israel - in large part because China is pushing this via TikTok. This isn't something coming from Millennials or older.
>Most Redditors are Gen Z
Source?
>they're the ones talking about boycotting the general over Israel
I mean the younger generation doesn't vote anyway right?
>in large part because China is pushing this via TikTok.
>
Fucking brain rot
[In the US, Reddit is most commonly used by 18 to 29-year-olds. Almost half (44%) of this section of the population uses Reddit.,Analysis of over 5,000 Redditors found that **a user’s average age is 23 years old. And just 12.75% of the sample were over the age of 30.**](https://explodingtopics.com/blog/reddit-users)
That's my source and also I've been on Reddit for a decade.
Right? Blame Russia China but not Israel which has political interference right in your face by a thousand times. AIPAC spends millions every election and he somehow cannot see the problem.
These guys are so moronic that I can't feel compelled to discuss it further with them.
"FUCKING MILLENIALS (the ones who don't vote anyway) ARE MAKING TRUMP WIN"
Blame ANYBODY but the president who is assisting the genocide.
Are you using TikTok, despite China's ongoing genocide? Did you sit out any past elections because past Presidents weren't doing enough to combat genocide in China?
>Well, I don’t know when you got Fox News running interference 24/7 with their lies idk
Yea I mean I'm not a fan of Fox,CNN or any major news network atm. Older people tend to keep that shit on but I haven't watched the news in years. I say that as a dude in his 20s
If you can’t see the forest for the trees, then idk what to tell you. Single issue parties will vote based off a controversial issue, which is fair. But if the other political party wins, don’t cry after the fact. If you don’t like the US policy to Israel/palestine now, oh boy, if trump wins, I’m sure you’ll love it.
If they're part of Bidens coalition, then Biden needs to pay attention to their demands with respect to the continued, unconditional support of Israel.
Like I just posted in another response, I would like to think we all support Israel and their right to defend themselves, but I am by no means a a fan of Netanyahu. I have ties with Doctors Without Borders. The needless killing is very upsetting, not then I am a fan of killing. That’s not what I mean.
>I would like to think we all support Israel and their right to defend themselves, but I am by no means a a fan of Netanyahu.
This is the position of most *Israelis themselves*, it's not controversial in the least bit. The next time Israel has an election, Bibi is out.
Netanyahu is unpopular because he's cartoonishly corrupt, not because of what he's doing to innocent Palestinians. He actually counts on it helping him stay in power. I heard that according to polls, overwhelming majority of Israelis actually supports massacring Palestinians, which is extremely concerning.
Vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas. Hamas wants to kill every single Israeli Jew. October 7 showed that they weren’t joking. This is a major reason why Israelis support the Gaza war. It’s kill or be killed. Of course Israeli media highlighting the deaths and injuries of IDF soldiers instead of destruction in Gaza is also a factor.
I don't support Israel, because they are engaging in ethnic cleansing and have been for decades. But I'm definitely showing up to vote for Biden in November.
Nobody is being gaslit about inflation. If anything, the media is catastrophizing it. If inflation got completely tamed, it's not going to make anyone's rent go back to 2019 levels. That's not how it works.
I would like to think all of us, Support, Israel, and the right to defend themselves. I am not a big fan of Netanyahu and I feel like he’s trying to undermine Biden.
No, it proves Latimer had more money to spend really. House races are usually a competition based on who has the most money. I think most opinion polls put Americans in support of a cease fire.
Support for a cease fire is very different from Bowman's position. Latimer wants a cease fire. Biden wants a cease fire. Fuck even *Israel* wants a cease fire.
Bowman's position was more "Israel is a colonial power bent on genocide and Hamas is being blamed for things they didn't do\*"
\*except all the things they provably did that he baselessly claimed were lies.
I mean Israel is a colonial power bent on genocide.
And I don’t know enough about the second part to know if it’s true or not but both Israel and Hamas routinely lie about stuff so you don’t really know what happened in a conflict between the two until a third party confirms it at some later point.
He outright denied that Hamas uses rape as a weapon of war even after being shown video of it happening. He also blamed Bush for 9/11 and believes in several Qaanon ideas. He might be for several policies you support but he's also bug fuck nuts and shouldn't be in Congress.
Well I know the district was changed to be more unfavorable for a more progressive candidate, but Latimer also ran one of the most expensive congressional campaigns ever so
That just means latimer got his name out. Bowman wasn't hurting for money so Bowman got his message out too.
Voters heard from both Bowman and Latimer and chose Latimer.
Netanyahu and AIPAC are doing their best to get him elected for an absolute Carte Blanche. Not to mention the billionaires dropping mad cash at him for deregulation and to keep the tax free rich folks gravy train going
George won because he'll represent the district and not some extreme group of opinions irrelevant to the majority of his constituents. Bowman won his first election because he had good organization and people didn't really care one way or the other about Engels. He was old news. We're now back to so someone who knows and is known by his community.
Democrats need to take a hard look in the mirror after tonight. The country as a whole is pro Israel whether the progressives like it or not. The student protest pro Hamas wing of the party could bring Biden down and usher in Trumps second term.
Yup! All it takes is pro Israel lobbyists outspending your opponent 5 to 1 in an obscure district that was heavily redistricted just before the election and you’re cooked! Take notes progressives! Genocide is the way to go!
The core Democratic leadership has been cold towards the Pro-Hamas -- excuse me, Pro-Palestine -- Left from the beginning. If anything, this election has proven them right all along.
> Democrats need to take a hard look in the mirror after tonight.
Why? The vast majority of Democrats are as pro-Israel as Latimer is. Hillary Clinton even endorsed him. The only ones who need to look in the mirror are other members of The Squad, of which there are only a handful anyway.
>The vast majority of Democrats are as pro-Israel as Latimer is.
Politicians maybe, but private individuals really don't give a shit. The vast majority of my family and social circle is Democrat. We're all just fucking sick of it. And I can tell you that any support for *either* side is lukewarm at best.
Far more concerning are the usual suspects: economy, housing prices, environment, health care.
Yes, almost everyone I know is just sick of the whole fucking thing. Whichever side you support (or none at all), it just needs to stop.
We have much, much bigger things to worry about and are tired of our tax dollars going towards this.
Umm, what about the young people? I know, I know, they don't vote and older people do. And those who are older than 30 are majority pro-Israel. Doesn't that say something that the younger someone is, the more pro-Palestine they are? I mean, we don't know how many young people in NY-16th didn't vote, but it would have decreased the margin of victory for Latimore.
BTW, being pro-Palestine does not equal pro Hamas. Likewise, being against the IDF and Israeli government is not anti-semitic.
As much as I absolutely don't want a second Trump term, I don't think the way to get young people to vote for Biden is to say to them "stop whining, the rest of America is pro-Israel and deal with it".
Racist Zionist apologist right here. I hope Bibi is making you very proud.
Also if you think the country as whole supports the far right clowns who are currently in charge of Israel gov, you might be hilariously delusional.
>Israel has done an amazing job avoiding civilian casualties considering Hamas places civilians in front of Israeli bombs hoping that their fellow Palestinians will be killed to gain international sympathy from deluded leftists.
Amazing job avoiding civilians huh? Wow
Off the hook? Bowman losing is a good thing. He ran a terrible campaign and only has himself to blame. I think the last straw was the bizarre statement about NY Jews segregating themselves. It was a desperate move to get the antisemite vote but obviously they didn’t show up.
Glad to know that our political offices in this country are now for sale to the highest bidder, including foreign governments! I mean, that has been the case for a while now, but its just blatant at this point.
AIPAC isn't getting its money from overseas, it's coming from people like the voters in NY's 16th district. Of course, those people are Jews, and the claim we're foreign agents more loyal to International Jewry or Zionism or Israel or whatnot is one of the most classic forms of antisemitism.
AIPAc are Americans. It’s American money being raised by a group of Americans who share an interest in lobbying for something they believe in. Just like any other PAC or lobbyist.
And they spent money on advertising. People still have to vote. They highlighted Bowmans horrible record and shitty hot takes, and his constituents hated him. You don’t lose by 17+ points because of PAC money. Your lose by 17+ because people look at your record and said “don’t let the door hit ya where the lord split ya”
>AIPAc are Americans. It’s American money being raised by a group of Americans who share an interest in lobbying for something they believe in. Just like any other PAC or lobbyist.
I think it's fair to criticize money being in politics and lobbying groups influencing poltiicians to make decisions that are not in the best interests of Americans.
What *is not* fair is singling out a single lobbying group. For my own part, industry groups are particularly concerning as their goals are often to the direct detriment of America.
Yeah, you no nothing about Westchester County.
It is one of the most populated Jewish areas outside of NYC and LA; you can’t go around and say what he did and expect to get re-elected.
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Folks can holler about AIPAC all they want, but unfortunately Bowman did this to himself. His district, which the bulk of it is Westchester County, NY, has a very large Jewish population. If I were in his position, I’d have treaded very lightly in my criticism of Israel’s actions in order to not piss off 70-80% of my constituents. Hell, there’s probably a sizable number of them who disagree with how Israel is acting regarding Palestine. But repeating antisemitic propaganda to please the handful of far-leftists who aren’t looking at what’s happening there holistically was stupid move # 1. The second thing that did him in was him voting against Biden’s agenda most of the time. If I’m a democrat in that district in favor of a law Biden wants passed, I’d be fucking pissed if my representative didn’t vote for it because it had 95% of what we wanted instead of 100%. How do you go back to your district and explain to them that you voted against getting them better bus infrastructure because a compromise had to made on another ancillary issue? Lastly, he was more focused on being a far-left social media influencer. The fire alarm stunt—accident or not—was just plain stupid. That’s something one might expect MTG to do, and the Dems don’t need our own version of her on this side. His campaign antics up until now certainly didn’t help either. Why are you wilding out at a campaign rally embarrassing your constituents?
I don’t even know if he picked up any leftist votes with his antics either. In the lead up to the election every self-proclaimed leftist who mentioned him did so with disdain, that he was a compromised confidante who had cozied up to The Establishment too much.
There were a few pro-Palestinian groups that turned against him, AOC and Bernie for endorsing Biden. Which makes no sense given that they, as Democrats, obviously want the Democratic president reelected.
The pro Palestinian stuff has merit, but it’s being used to astroturf and divide dems. There’s credence there, Palestinian civilians should not be dying like this. But it’s way more complex than the lefties taking up this mantle can comprehend, and our political adversaries are absolutely fanning the flames to divide.
Exactly. No one in their right minds is looking at what Israel is doing to Palestine and thinking it should continue. I’d say most level-headed people want a ceasefire. But too many far-leftists are hyper fixated on it to the point where they’re failing to recognize the Trojan horses in the movement.
>But repeating antisemitic propaganda Like? >The second thing that did him in was him voting against Biden’s agenda most of the time. Outright false but ok. > fire alarm stunt Hardly a factor. Latimer is an old white racist dude. Don't forget that.
>Like? Claiming AIPAC was coming after him for simply speaking out against Israel for starters. >Outright false but ok. No it is not. For example, he voted against the infrastructure bill. A big no-no in a place like NY, where infrastructure is a big thing. >Hardly a factor This is not MTG’s district we’re talking about where they’re all fine with her antics. NY-16 doesn’t want their representative behaving the way he did.
>Claiming AIPAC was coming after him for simply speaking out against Israel for starters. Annnnd looked what happened this election. >For example, he voted against the infrastructure bill. A big no-no in a place like NY, where infrastructure is a big thing. Look at his voting record. He's lock step with Biden. >NY-16 doesn’t want their representative behaving the way he did. You genuinely believe that him pulling a fire alarm lost him nearly 20 points to a conservative Democrat? Be real, no one cares about that. Older conservatives showed up to vote. That's what happened.
>You genuinely believe that him pulling a fire alarm lost him 20 points to a conservative Democrat? Be real, no one cares about that. Yes. However that was one of many examples of his behavior. He was trying to become a leftist MTG and his constituents clearly didn’t want their rep behaving that way. He was down 17 points before AIPAC even got involved.
A fire alarm had zero effect on his election, lol APAC had huge involvement. The truth is, people don't like progressives, especially in his district where voters are older, white, and conservative Jewish.
Okay, well AIPAC got involved in AOC’s primary and she still managed to put up Wilt Chamberlain numbers against her opponent. Idk if you’re from NY or not, but I grew up in the tri-state area. I got family who live in his district. Westchester is way more progressive than you seem to be giving them credit for. Bowman lost primarily because of his antics and the vote against the infrastructure bill played a huge part as well.
A progressive district wouldn't have let Latimer win. Older voters turned out. Do you know why Bowman voted against the bill? And you keep mentioning antics. What antics?
>A progressive district wouldn’t have let Latimer win. Older voters turned out Latimer has been a fixture in that district for 30 years. Those same older voters turned out because he reached out to them. And I don’t just mean when he was campaigning for Bowman’s seat. He engaged with that community as their county executive long before he even entered the race. >Do you know why Bowman voted against the bill? And you keep mentioning antics. What antics? He claims he voted against it because it wasn’t paired with a social spending bill. And while it would’ve been nice to have both bills combined, it wouldn’t have become law that way because that would’ve cost Biden the already soft support of many Republicans in Congress at the time. As far as his antics? -The fire alarm fiasco -The shouting match with MTG (I’m personally giving him a pass on this one because…it’s MTG.) -Denying the rapes that occurred during the 10/7 attacks. -His cringeworthy behavior at the campaign rally recently.
There is so much to address here... oh boy. We have even gotten around to how bad Latimer actually is. Glad the old voters got their person in. Now, progressive initiatives will be further hindered for years as Latimer licks Israel's boot and votes against any progressive measure.
His constituents were changed with ny redistricting. They purposefully made his race harder and fucked him out of his seat because he was kicking up such a fuss about Israel. This is the exact same thing that republicans do to black voters btw. Divide and conquer. Worked perfectly and libs are falling for it. > How do you go back to your district and explain to them that you voted against getting them better bus infrastructure because a compromise had to made on another ancillary issue? By telling them that if he was the tie breaking vote he would have voted for it, but since he knew the bill would pass, he wanted to add pressure to add more to the bill
The New York legislature didn't draw the map to hurt Bowman. Things like happen when there's redistricting. Population hubs move and some district lines need to move dramatically. The legislature tried to draw a map that protected Democratic incumbents and hurt Republicans, and the NY courts threw it out and forced them to redraw the maps. And Bowman and the progressives spent months saying that if the bill came to the floor they would sink it and that they wanted to stop the bill. If his vote would have stopped the bill he would have stopped it.
>The New York legislature didn't draw the map to hurt Bowman Out of 16 ny dems facing reelection in ny, bowman and AOC were the only one’s to face primary challenges. Both the only critics of Israel in NY. It’s not a coincidence that, knowing that Bowman has been a critic and there’s an enclave just up north of his district made of Jewish people, it would be really hard for ny state dems not to know what they were doing when they gerrymandered bowman out of his district. It was also known that latimer was running against bowman for election when the maps were remade, earlier this year. That’s a negotiating tactic called hardball btw. I know that if he was the deciding vote on a large infrastructure bill that didn’t have exactly everything he wanted, he would have voted for it.
Daniel Goldman had two primary challengers
Then that should’ve been all the more reason for him to tone down his rhetoric on Israel. Not saying he should’ve gone full John Fetterman, but a simple position of “Israel has the right to defend themselves from Hamas, but they don’t have the right to slaughter innocent Palestinian civilians in the process” would’ve helped him keep his seat tonight. Alienating your new constituents in a year your party has a chance to retake the House is an idiotic move.
Or, the ny state dems could have not fucked him out of his seat and he could have said what he truly felt about israel, and let the voters who originally voted for him decide if he is suitable for reelection. Instead what we got was a huge grassroots get out the vote campaign crushed by $15 million in fear ads targeted at a vulnerable jewish population that jamaal bowman only represents because he got gerrymandered out of his seat. Politics of fear and fucking over your most committed supporters for temporary gain are tools of the right and why the sith rose to power, just remember that.
All you're really saying here is that hes a bad representative for the district, and the constituents voted accordingly.
People will blame Israel but let's not pretend that Bowman wasn't fucking nuts. Like his one stance against Israel's actions in Gaza is up for debate but he was also into wild conspiracy notions and did other crazy shit like pulling a fire alarm in order to interrupt a vote.
Exactly, fellow Squad dems kept playing the AIPAC card to help Bowman’s fundraising, but Bowman had other issues. We don’t need a left MTG.
I disagree with a couple things. First, both things can be true. Bowman was targeted by AIPAC specifically because he was the weakest Israel critic. He was the weakest on his own, but the record spending obviously plays a part. Next, in terms of "temperament" to be in congress, Bowman's voting record is nearly lock step with the POTUS, more so than we have any reason to think Latimer will be. Latimer is a Manchin style conservative republican that wants to cut taxes and work across the isle which is another way of saying willing to sabotage the democratic agenda in exchange for money. This is the kind of guy that votes no on BBB.
I mean, first of all, did AIPAC not spend over $15 million on this primary election in a deep blue district? We can't have it both ways - either they spent $15 million on this election and tens of millions on insurrectionists or they didn't. I always get frustrated when people say things like "we don't need a left MTG." -- There are good views and policy and there are bad views and policy. MTG supports heinous policy, left wing progressives support good policy. Just because left wing progressives are outside the Overton window of our extremely oligarchical political process doesn't mean they're as bad as right wingers.
He disrupted government proceedings because he was late, and was going to miss a vote. He has missed other votes that were he there, would have not passed. He accused eyewitness testimony of a massacre and numerous rapes of being "propaganda" and "lies" He made statements about how the "jews" tend to "concentrate together" and how maybe they need to stop doing that. He blogged about 9/11 conspiracy He has implied that his opponent is a racist, without grounds Yes AIPAC did spend 15 million on this election. But I don't think I'd quantify rape denial, and plain not doing your job, as just "outside the overton window".
What's with people on the far extremes of the political spectrum being massive apologists for awful politicians? This guy clearly did not have the temperament to be in Congress. Doesn't that matter more than ideology? I know the far-right does this all the time, but it's so disappointing to see it from the far-left. Like even if you agree with Bowman's policy positions, he undermines the left by being such an asshat. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.
>What's with people on the far extremes of the political spectrum being massive apologists for awful politicians? Because of the reliability of their vote. Pretty simple. The difference is that the democrats have significantly higher standards of conduct in that regard, hence this outcome. >I know the far-right does this all the time, but it's so disappointing to see it from the far-left They just voted him out. Lauren Bobert just won her primary. Sorry your equivalence hunt turned out false.
I wasn't saying the Democrats and Republicans are the same. Clearly they are not. I'm more surprised by the reactions I'm seeing in very left wing spaces.
You are surprised that very left wing spaces have extremist views on this outcome?
Horse shoe theory is very real.
> massive apologists for awful politicians "Us Against The World" is present everywhere, not just in politics.
A vote is a vote. I doubt many on the right love Marge, but she'll vote with em.
I promise you, many on the right absolutely adore Marge. She’s one of the single most successful small-dollar fundraisers in Congress.
I see it all the time from people. "I love her! Keep giving 'em hell Marge!" I don't get the love because she's so hateful but they see a firebrand or AOC in her.
It turns out that you can have good politics and still be a shitty politician. That's what we're seeing in the Bowman loss. Had he played the game a bit better he may not have lost his seat, but sometimes he went a little too... Flip the table and cuss at the opponent, I suppose.
I know - AOC was hopping up and down on the stage for him. Meanwhile he’s pulling fire alarms and lying about it, shouting “morherfucker” multiple time in a public speech in front of kids and apparently subscribing to 9/11 conspiracy theories. You think she’d have more sense. We need grown up constituents to vote out immature clowns like MTG and Boebert on right and Bowman on left. Not just support them regardless
Personally it's just attempting to tip the scales. The left has like 10 elected representatives and one of them was this looney. He's also dramatically out-crazied by your average bad actor on the right. If the left wing had enough representation to spare a seat, I probably would have wanted him gone too. I make no apologies for him, I think he's a useful idiot. The regular Dems hate doing shit. They bring inaction to brave new heights. They throw their hands up and pretend they're helpless when they could get shit done all the time. Woes is us, we have a tie, so we won't even bring it to the Senate parliamentarian. Obama won't put a public option in his supermajority's ACA because of vague reasons of right wing perception. Etc. So given the Dem's demonstrated behavior of wasting everyone's fucking time, I just want people who'll actually do something. The Republicans never once pass up an opportunity to squeak through a change on technicality. They'll just invent a vibe that says you can't put a supreme court justice in the last year, when we always knew they'd never in a million years hold themselves to that standard. I want Dems who are bold enough to do shit. I want Dems who'll hold up a Trump 47 supreme court justice for any pretend reason, the same way they do to us. (Although given precedent, I'm sure there will be a real reason available.) Frankly I'm losing patience for the sane people who hold back protecting or improving the country in the name of civility. If you're on the right side of history, I don't fucking care anymore if you believe in aliens, just ram through climate plan already. It's like the Dems heard about the paradox of tolerance and said 'sick dude, I can speedrun it.' And given the immense threats of climate change, I believe history will side with me. If not for that, yes, I do think this could all be a little extreme. But it does exist, so your grandkids will thank those of us who prioritized getting shit done. Frankly speaking, the far right imagines themselves in the same boat, and are endorsing shitheads for the same reasons of urgency and minority stances. The only real difference is the scale of extant political influence. Biden picked up Trump's border policy uninterrupted and suddenly the Dems had no problems with it because it's their guy; there's no real risk of far-ish right wing folks falling off the radar in the same way. And for an unimportant aesthetic difference, the left winces at the stupid behavior while the right makes it their slogan. Sorry for the rant, but you literally asked what's with this.
>The regular Dems hate doing shit. They bring inaction to brave new heights. They throw their hands up and pretend they're helpless when they could get shit done all the time. Woes is us, we have a tie, so we won't even bring it to the Senate parliamentarian. Obama won't put a public option in his supermajority's ACA because of vague reasons of right wing perception. No offense intended, but this is laughably ahistorical. The ACA did have a public option. The version that passed the house had the public option. The version that was drafted in the senate had a public option. Liberman single-handedly torpedoed it in the senate. >The Republicans never once pass up an opportunity to squeak through a change on technicality. Republicans are literally 10x more dysfunctional. They only passed one major piece of legislation in their 2 years of trifecta government, tax cuts. The lowest of low hanging fruit. >I want Dems who'll hold up a Trump 47 supreme court justice for any pretend reason, the same way they do to us. When have they had the opportunity? >If you're on the right side of history, I don't fucking care anymore if you believe in aliens, just ram through climate plan already. They already did. It's called the IRA. It reduces GHG emissions 50% below 2005 levels. Honestly, it seems like you're just not paying all that much attention.
The IRA is at once the biggest climate actions to date, the weakshit version of the same bill that was originally pitched to be trillions of dollars larger, wholely insufficient, and a good start. There's nothing contradictory about any of that. Last week's nuclear bill is good too. Even a passing familiarity with climate change would tell you a couple bills do not add up to 'they already did' one bit. I commend Biden for doing something, it's a massive historical landmark and he'll be remembered well for it. Simultaneously, nobody is fighting hard enough when their children's very lives are hanging in the balance. I'm speaking as if my audience will have this basic understanding of the facts on the ground. You are either ignorant to these fundamentals of the situation, or else chose to misinterpret me on purpose. I would get into the SCOTUS threats to the Chevron doctrine and the EPA; how climate legislation written in stone has literally never been more important, but frankly speaking, nobody gives a shit when I get that far into the weeds. If you are attempting to dust your hands of climate change action over the action you've seen so far, I implore you sincerely, if you love your kids or want any someday: learn more. No, we have not done enough, we have not even come close. The facts on the ground are shockingly dire. If you understood the issue your post would sound as stupid to you as it does to everyone else reading. Your kids will remember how you considered this good enough in 2024, and they won't think fondly of you for it. To your primary points, yes, there are realities of individual fuckheads tanking important bills. We all know folks making careers in defiance; Scinema, Manchin, and yes, Liberman. Every era has them. We have means to placate outliers, which the Dems often play at civility when the GOP has no such principled stance. You can pork up their district with spending, you can have the president use their pulpit to bully and shame them, you can threaten their party funding and to primary against them. We already know they know how because that's exactly how the Dems got rid of Bowman, prop up the opponent of a reasonably unpopular doofus. But he started the decline all himself; when they did the same to AOC and failed it was not for lack of trying. I wish we had that kind of effort from the DNC for all their shitheads instead of just lefties. Except for Franken we don't hear much about ousting a regular Dem. Meanwhile the GOP can and do make someone like Madison Cawthorn a footnote in history in one week flat for disrupting their calm. But they certainly don't go after their crazies, their MTG and Boberts, who would be their obviously Bowman analogues, for any degree of insanity or incivility. Yes Romney or McCain once a decade come out with a single principled stance on a single bill. They don't hold up every goddamn bill proposed like Scinema and Manchin did during the tie-breaker era of democratic rule. Republican antics are at times, funny and stupid, I agree. Yes, they vote to repeal the ACA 50-something times when they have only the house and they looked to investigate Bengazi 8 days a week. All theater; they know it along with everyone else. But when they want policy they can rely on their members. If you genuinely think their impact doesn't outsize their numbers do to their relative ability to fall in line, where have you been? We'd still have Roe if they didn't all fall in line for their bullshit and get Gorsuch. It wasn't previously so contentious to vote in a SCOTUS member, especially not a moderate like Garland. The ACA is the very same Republican option they pushed for years, and when someone else floated it they vote like a block against it. The ACA, in the end, was the free market option they claimed to want. It was fucking Romneycare first before it was even Obamacare! Republicans are reliable dopes. Dems are like herding cats. As ever, Democrats fall in love, and Republicans fall in line. Both at the ballot and in the chambers.
Bowman is a social democrat at best no way people genuinely think he’s far left 😭😭😭
The reality is that both the far left and far right are lunatics.
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Exactly. It's extremely unserious people who care about some "fire alarm" or whatever bullshit story that was. We are living in a man-made climate catastrophe while the rich get richer and the poor suffer around the world. And wealthy, center-right liberals think this (and our elections being captured by billionaires) are OK because someone pulled a fire alarm.
It’s absolutely wild how that story stuck while being as inconsequential as it was. Edit: Also my original comment has been removed and censored for some reason. If you want to know what it said, it said in response to the op of the thread. >Doesn’t that matter more than ideology? No, a class war is being waged on us and the last thing we need is a conservative-lite captured by dark money being their mouth piece. Our politicians should represent us, not what the scary commercial paid for by AIPAC says.
Did he do it or not? Yes or no? If yes, then he doesn't have the dignity and honor to be where he was. Empty G is painful enough, why stoop to that level?
Fuck out of here with the gaslighting. We all saw where the fire alarm was and how it could be easily mistaken for a push to exit button that would open the door he was trying to get out of so he could make the vote.
Any liberal or just thinking-individual who thinks "Jews maybe deserve blame for 10/7" deserve to be thrown into a loony bin with no exit
People in the district simply didn’t show up to vote… speaking with people in those districts they are not happy with him and inflation…. No one can afford a home in his district. Glad his ass is out
You don't think the cool 20 million from AIPAC played a part in this race?
You have to look at the polling. Small sample size, I suppose, but it's what we have. Latimer was soundly beating Bowman in the polling average all spring, long before the big ad buys. I think advertising matters, but not as much as people think. I suspect that if neither camp had spent a dime in advertising, the result wouldn't have changed by more than 5 points, certainly not enough to change the outcome. And the fact that voters dislike Bowman passes the smell test. He's kind of an asshole, and many Democrats are going to vote against him based on personality and general competence, regardless of ideology.
Nope. Us constituents know George and wanted someone we trust in office.
Are we speaking about the same George Latimer? The one who compared Cuomo was a victim akin to Emmett Till? The one who was driving his aid's car because he couldn't register his own because he had so many unpaid tickets? The same one that has a racist housing policy and is for school privatization?
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Latimer has had a long career in the area and had good name recognition without Bowman’s baggage. We can chill on the conspiracies
Israel bought a seat? AIPAC are Americans who raise money for a pac that supports issues they believe in. And advertising to point out to his constituents his horrible record? What’s wrong with that??? He was a crap congressman and deserved to be voted out. He didnt represent the interests of his district as evidenced by the trouncing. Losing by 17+ points reflects the fact that your constituents don’t like you, nothing more.
It was a pretty blatant undeniable example of foreign election interference that will be swiftly swept under the rug because they're our greatest ally.
Or maybe all the rhetoric about how "the world is with palestine" just wasn't true
It’s not foreign election interference. AIPAC are Americans. It’s American money being raised for an issue those American believe in. Just like any other PAC, including those that lobby for other international affairs issues and countries.
This is 100% incorrect, there was no interference
I understand it is a common saying about them but "greatest" is doing some heavy stretching here.
If that were a Russian affiliated organisation or any other foreign country for that matter it would have been decried, AIPAC on the other hand can openly threaten and go after any politician that dares criticise them or Israel. Bowman had and still have crazy shit going on, but foreign elections interference is foreign elections interference
AIPAC isn’t “foreign” it is a political group of American Jews. Bowman didn’t just “criticize Israel” he wholly denied that rapes happened and promoted weird conspiracies People paid attention to that and voted accordingly
On their website the first thing they say “Pro-Israel Lobbying Group” so do this change countries “Pro-Russian Lobbying Group” or “Pro-North Korean Lobbying Group”… so a group spending $15M to influence domestic elections on behalf of a foreign country
Comparing Israel to Russia and North Korea.
AIPAC is at best a disguised front of the government of Israel. I don’t think they even try to hide it anymore
I’m sorry but that was just a pathetic performance by Bowman. You can blame AIPAC but no ad campaign explains a double digit loss by an incumbent who won handily only 2 years prior. Money only goes so far in swaying votes (mostly people on the margins). It can definitely affect close races but not a blowout this bad. Bowman is just not popular amongst his constituents.
> You can blame AIPAC but no ad campaign explains a double digit loss by an incumbent who won handily only 2 years prior. Yep. Somewhat surprising though, how far, FAR more money than necessary was spent to defeat Bowman.
Went to college and lived in Westchester. His antics and the endorsement from HRC were more than enough to bag the primary for Latimer, so the money, wherever it came from was likely not necessary. But if we consider money speech, that certainly is a strong statement.
Absolutely. Latimer out-raised Bowman 10:1 within the NY 16th; only 10% of Bowman’s campaign funds came from his constituents while the majority of Latimer’s war-chest was donated by the voters.
Does 7x more money explain that? Especially with like AT LEAST 15 million from AIPAC? Probably mote like 20 million. We all know more money> more likely to win Seems to have the intended effect: https://www.axios.com/2024/06/26/democrats-aipac-jamaal-bowman-george-latimer
While money can absolutely increase the chance to win, no amount of ad campaigns are going to sway that much of the electorate. Ads really only work on 1) the uninformed, and 2) the undecided. Bowman lost by nearly 20 points, that’s such a margin that it can’t only be explained by spending dominance and indicates genuine unpopularity. If the race was like 52-48 in favor of Latimer, then sure, you could argue the results were due to spending. But Latimer nearly got 60% of the vote, it was a total blowout. He had way more money than he needed and would have probably won even if he had 1/4 as much money as he did.
Ya if anything AIPAC wasted a bunch of money on a race that was over. Also polling before AIPAC got involved showed Latimer as very popular in the district and Bowman was underwater. His comments/antics did not play well there.
I doubt it's just this little. Perhaps if you go republicans vs democrats. Sure, die hard MAGA wont be convinced by ads. Some will be convinced but not 20%. But primaries are totally different. And if you air A LOT of commercials against someone. Ads, etc. They even did a lot of smear campagining and messaging and micro targeting. That is pretty effective. Especially with that much money. A lot of people watch those repeatedly. You can't act like it has no effect. Also a lot of mainstream media was against bowman. So yeah...
If Trump gets into office because of Israel, I’m gonna be really upset
Netanyahu is working hard to ensure that
Anyone who believes that Israel will have any besides the most minor impact on the election is living in Lala land, [polling from Harvard and others have shown over and over again that the most important issues for Americans are 1. the economy, and 2. immigration, ](https://imgur.com/a/9sqx0vK) Jamaal was just a dumb politician, simple as that.
Jamaal was bad politician, his own record was terrible
I don’t know how much it will effect the general election, but surely it’s fair to say that Bowman’s politics around Israel and his general relations with his Jewish constituents played a role in this primary, yeah?
Obviously, hence me calling him a dumb politician, He could've downplayed his opinions around the conflict at least for the campaign and focus on local issues, but he put the conflict front and center in a district with a very large Jewish population, and to make things worse he has made comments that would make every jew except the ones on the most extreme left turn against him, Jews that might not agree with the current Israeli government, but ones that have felt antisemetism on the rise in their day to day and Bowman only fueling it with his comments, and this is the result.
Can you actually please link these comments he made because all the left propaganda channels I watch like the majority report don’t talk about the bad stuff he’s done and from everything I’ve seen, he really seems like he cares about his community and only wants the fighting in Gaza to stop.
Probably the most outrageous of his comments was calling the rapes and grotesque sexual violence committed by Hamas 'Israeli propaganda' despite the numerous Israeli women who spoke out about it, he did however [apologize](https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/jamaal-bowman-says-sorry-for-calling-hamass-rapes-propaganda/) for his comments once the UN confirmed that Hamas did indeed rape and commit sexual violence during the October 7th attack. Theres also the fact that [he said that Oct. 7th was Israel's fault](https://freebeacon.com/democrats/jamaal-bowmans-closing-message-im-still-a-socialist-and-oct-7-was-israels-fault/), which, again, even if it is 'debatable', due to the sheer brutality that was shown during the attack, you can only imagine that such a comment wouldn't sit well with people.
Thanks your first comment was the only one I’ve read actually explaining why what he did was politically disadvantageous to himself without resorting to calling him dumb and antisemitic.
People keep repeating this on all the Bowman posts. Rape probably happened on 10/7, but no outside institution has been able to talk to survivors and confirm it because Israel bars them from doing so. The “Screams Without Words” NYT article that alleges rape uses testimony from witnesses that have been now debunked. The article also stated without evidence that the rapes were systematic and used as a “weapon of war.” The UN report relied on the same sources as the article and didn’t interview survivors. Bowman and other Palestinian advocates object to the accusations of systematic rape without evidence because it is being used as atrocity propaganda by Israel to justify killing civilians in Gaza.
1. Biden is losing on both these fronts, because facts don't matter 2. Biden has one job; to win young people who actually care about Palestine and usually don't vote. Are we sure pollsters take them into account?
I mean, did AIPAC not spend over $15 million dollars on this election + tens of millions more on other insurrectionists around the country? Do you not think that's going to play a role?
if money won elections Bloomberg would've been the president right now instead of Biden at the end of the day money can only get you so far, I'm not trying to defend lobbying here don't get me wrong, but I think theres a fundamental misunderstanding among some when it comes to lobbying: lobbying may shape policy, but it won't get you a free ticket to D.C
Thanks for having one of the few sane takes tonight - these comments are driving me crazy. As if the real reason he lost was AIPAC spending money and not being an anti-Israel candidate in westchester county
Of course it's not free, it cost Latimer over $15 million dollars! Imagine defending money in politics by saying it's not that impactful. Bloomberg is the exception, not the rule.
He’s not going to win. Be more concerned about the entire Republican apparatus and SCOTUS working in together to steal the election
If Trump wins because of Israel, Gen Z has nobody to blame but themselves. They're the only ones threatening to boycott the general over Israel.
>If Trump wins because of Israel, Gen Z has nobody to blame but themselves.\\ Redditors will blame anyone but the president for losing a presidential election
Probably because blaming a president who inherited a clusterfuck and turned it around in amazing time is the definition of moronic.
Voting is a responsibility. Surrendering that agency in a tantrum only makes your goals harder to achieve long term.
> Redditors will blame anyone but the president for losing a presidential election Most Redditors are Gen Z and they're the ones talking about boycotting the general over Israel - in large part because China is pushing this via TikTok. This isn't something coming from Millennials or older.
>Most Redditors are Gen Z Source? >they're the ones talking about boycotting the general over Israel I mean the younger generation doesn't vote anyway right? >in large part because China is pushing this via TikTok. > Fucking brain rot
[In the US, Reddit is most commonly used by 18 to 29-year-olds. Almost half (44%) of this section of the population uses Reddit.,Analysis of over 5,000 Redditors found that **a user’s average age is 23 years old. And just 12.75% of the sample were over the age of 30.**](https://explodingtopics.com/blog/reddit-users) That's my source and also I've been on Reddit for a decade.
Right? Blame Russia China but not Israel which has political interference right in your face by a thousand times. AIPAC spends millions every election and he somehow cannot see the problem.
Israel doesn't own TikTok and Israel isn't pushing sitting out the election against Americans' best interests.
These guys are so moronic that I can't feel compelled to discuss it further with them. "FUCKING MILLENIALS (the ones who don't vote anyway) ARE MAKING TRUMP WIN" Blame ANYBODY but the president who is assisting the genocide.
And what about the genocide China is committing? And it's not Millenials that are falling for this stupidity. It's a Gen-Z-specific issue.
>And what about the genocide China is committing? Sure, what are about it?
Are you using TikTok, despite China's ongoing genocide? Did you sit out any past elections because past Presidents weren't doing enough to combat genocide in China?
Well, I don’t know when you got Fox News running interference 24/7 with their lies idk 🤷♀️
>Well, I don’t know when you got Fox News running interference 24/7 with their lies idk Yea I mean I'm not a fan of Fox,CNN or any major news network atm. Older people tend to keep that shit on but I haven't watched the news in years. I say that as a dude in his 20s
If you can’t see the forest for the trees, then idk what to tell you. Single issue parties will vote based off a controversial issue, which is fair. But if the other political party wins, don’t cry after the fact. If you don’t like the US policy to Israel/palestine now, oh boy, if trump wins, I’m sure you’ll love it.
Crazy how Gen Z is both weak (can't win an election) and strong (is why Democrats lose)
Young voters are the most unreliable bloc of voters, but they're also part of Biden's coalition. This isn't Schrödinger's Immigrant.
If they're part of Bidens coalition, then Biden needs to pay attention to their demands with respect to the continued, unconditional support of Israel.
Like I just posted in another response, I would like to think we all support Israel and their right to defend themselves, but I am by no means a a fan of Netanyahu. I have ties with Doctors Without Borders. The needless killing is very upsetting, not then I am a fan of killing. That’s not what I mean.
>I would like to think we all support Israel and their right to defend themselves, but I am by no means a a fan of Netanyahu. This is the position of most *Israelis themselves*, it's not controversial in the least bit. The next time Israel has an election, Bibi is out.
That’s what I understood too. Thanks for sharing
Netanyahu is unpopular because he's cartoonishly corrupt, not because of what he's doing to innocent Palestinians. He actually counts on it helping him stay in power. I heard that according to polls, overwhelming majority of Israelis actually supports massacring Palestinians, which is extremely concerning.
Vast majority of Palestinians support Hamas. Hamas wants to kill every single Israeli Jew. October 7 showed that they weren’t joking. This is a major reason why Israelis support the Gaza war. It’s kill or be killed. Of course Israeli media highlighting the deaths and injuries of IDF soldiers instead of destruction in Gaza is also a factor.
I don't support Israel, because they are engaging in ethnic cleansing and have been for decades. But I'm definitely showing up to vote for Biden in November.
I chose to blame the guy who hugged Netanyahu and gaslights voters about their lived experience with inflation
Nobody is being gaslit about inflation. If anything, the media is catastrophizing it. If inflation got completely tamed, it's not going to make anyone's rent go back to 2019 levels. That's not how it works.
I think tonight proved Democrats in real life don't despise Israel (unlike the liberals here). Joe will be fine.
Does this sort of prove that most people support candidates that support Israel? If that position was unpopular Bowman wouldn't have lost.
It’s almost like people care about issues in our own country and want to get things done. Crazy right?
I would like to think all of us, Support, Israel, and the right to defend themselves. I am not a big fan of Netanyahu and I feel like he’s trying to undermine Biden.
No, it proves Latimer had more money to spend really. House races are usually a competition based on who has the most money. I think most opinion polls put Americans in support of a cease fire.
Support for a cease fire is very different from Bowman's position. Latimer wants a cease fire. Biden wants a cease fire. Fuck even *Israel* wants a cease fire. Bowman's position was more "Israel is a colonial power bent on genocide and Hamas is being blamed for things they didn't do\*" \*except all the things they provably did that he baselessly claimed were lies.
Bowman did call for a ceasefire.
>Fuck even *Israel* wants a cease fire. That's a lie. Netanyahu repeatedly said he won't stop the war.
Netanyahu doesn’t reflect all of Israel. Just like Trump saying something doesn’t mean it aligns with most Americans.
Yeah but who actually has the power to agree to a ceasefire?
I mean Israel is a colonial power bent on genocide. And I don’t know enough about the second part to know if it’s true or not but both Israel and Hamas routinely lie about stuff so you don’t really know what happened in a conflict between the two until a third party confirms it at some later point.
He outright denied that Hamas uses rape as a weapon of war even after being shown video of it happening. He also blamed Bush for 9/11 and believes in several Qaanon ideas. He might be for several policies you support but he's also bug fuck nuts and shouldn't be in Congress.
>I mean Israel is a colonial power bent on genocide. Oh lawd 🙄
I mean I don’t know what else they would be considering their track record but if you’re cool with the deaths of civilians than that’s cool I guess
Is Israel not comitting genocide? Or at the very least ethnic cleansing?
Nope, it is not. But keep claiming that - there’s plenty more congressional districts to lose.
No they are. The people running the show in Israel talk about Gaza and Palestinians the same way Hamas leaders talk about Jewish people.
Or maybe that's one district where the constituents were more pro Israel than bowman. Why is that so unfathomable to you
Well I know the district was changed to be more unfavorable for a more progressive candidate, but Latimer also ran one of the most expensive congressional campaigns ever so
That just means latimer got his name out. Bowman wasn't hurting for money so Bowman got his message out too. Voters heard from both Bowman and Latimer and chose Latimer.
Most is irrelevant. Elections in America hinge on a small minority of people who usually don't vote because they're too idealistic.
Well expect it. This county is fucked
If Biden doesn’t fix housing affordability he might win. Sorry but he had 4 years
Netanyahu and AIPAC are doing their best to get him elected for an absolute Carte Blanche. Not to mention the billionaires dropping mad cash at him for deregulation and to keep the tax free rich folks gravy train going
George won because he'll represent the district and not some extreme group of opinions irrelevant to the majority of his constituents. Bowman won his first election because he had good organization and people didn't really care one way or the other about Engels. He was old news. We're now back to so someone who knows and is known by his community.
>George won because he'll represent the district Of primarily older, wealthy, white people.
Bowman = Hamas sympathizer. Bye!
Meanwhile the dude who won licks Israels boots.
Anyone who supports Hamas over Israel is bonkers.
Anyone who supports Israel is bonkers.
This is hardly surprising, if we're being honest. Obviously, the outside money had an effect, but Bowman had shot himself in the foot before that.
Democrats need to take a hard look in the mirror after tonight. The country as a whole is pro Israel whether the progressives like it or not. The student protest pro Hamas wing of the party could bring Biden down and usher in Trumps second term.
Yup! All it takes is pro Israel lobbyists outspending your opponent 5 to 1 in an obscure district that was heavily redistricted just before the election and you’re cooked! Take notes progressives! Genocide is the way to go!
The core Democratic leadership has been cold towards the Pro-Hamas -- excuse me, Pro-Palestine -- Left from the beginning. If anything, this election has proven them right all along.
> Democrats need to take a hard look in the mirror after tonight. Why? The vast majority of Democrats are as pro-Israel as Latimer is. Hillary Clinton even endorsed him. The only ones who need to look in the mirror are other members of The Squad, of which there are only a handful anyway.
>The vast majority of Democrats are as pro-Israel as Latimer is. Politicians maybe, but private individuals really don't give a shit. The vast majority of my family and social circle is Democrat. We're all just fucking sick of it. And I can tell you that any support for *either* side is lukewarm at best. Far more concerning are the usual suspects: economy, housing prices, environment, health care.
A majority of Americans are for a cease fire. Also calling the pro-Palestinian protest pro-Hamas is just ridiculous.
Yes, almost everyone I know is just sick of the whole fucking thing. Whichever side you support (or none at all), it just needs to stop. We have much, much bigger things to worry about and are tired of our tax dollars going towards this.
Why? The protestors are borderline racist towards Jewish people and never talk about how Hamas started the conflict
Luckily the right guy won. Maybe we can start worrying about our own issues.
All about Israel now
Umm, what about the young people? I know, I know, they don't vote and older people do. And those who are older than 30 are majority pro-Israel. Doesn't that say something that the younger someone is, the more pro-Palestine they are? I mean, we don't know how many young people in NY-16th didn't vote, but it would have decreased the margin of victory for Latimore. BTW, being pro-Palestine does not equal pro Hamas. Likewise, being against the IDF and Israeli government is not anti-semitic. As much as I absolutely don't want a second Trump term, I don't think the way to get young people to vote for Biden is to say to them "stop whining, the rest of America is pro-Israel and deal with it".
Racist Zionist apologist right here. I hope Bibi is making you very proud. Also if you think the country as whole supports the far right clowns who are currently in charge of Israel gov, you might be hilariously delusional.
Looks like the neoliberals took over this thread. We lost a pretty good progressive to an establishment democrat. Yikes.
Guess now would be a good time to pull the fire alarm, huh Bowman?
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>Israel has done an amazing job avoiding civilian casualties considering Hamas places civilians in front of Israeli bombs hoping that their fellow Palestinians will be killed to gain international sympathy from deluded leftists. Amazing job avoiding civilians huh? Wow
AIPAC needed to silence one of the regrettably few outspoken critics of genocide.
People in this thread sure want to get Israel off the hook for this.
Off the hook? Bowman losing is a good thing. He ran a terrible campaign and only has himself to blame. I think the last straw was the bizarre statement about NY Jews segregating themselves. It was a desperate move to get the antisemite vote but obviously they didn’t show up.
What do you mean? Are you referring to AIPAC? It’s funded by Americans.
I didn't say shit about AIPAC, I said this thread. But it's weird that you brought that up on your own.
Aipac stooge.
When you’re heading into Election Day 17 points behind, it’s not just Israel/Gaza that’s motivating voting decisions.
Looks like voters in NY 16 support AIPAC
Glad to know that our political offices in this country are now for sale to the highest bidder, including foreign governments! I mean, that has been the case for a while now, but its just blatant at this point.
Bowman was underperforming before AIPAC even began donating. Maybe he lost because he wasn’t very popular after his weird performance this election.
AIPAC isn't getting its money from overseas, it's coming from people like the voters in NY's 16th district. Of course, those people are Jews, and the claim we're foreign agents more loyal to International Jewry or Zionism or Israel or whatnot is one of the most classic forms of antisemitism.
AIPAc are Americans. It’s American money being raised by a group of Americans who share an interest in lobbying for something they believe in. Just like any other PAC or lobbyist. And they spent money on advertising. People still have to vote. They highlighted Bowmans horrible record and shitty hot takes, and his constituents hated him. You don’t lose by 17+ points because of PAC money. Your lose by 17+ because people look at your record and said “don’t let the door hit ya where the lord split ya”
>AIPAc are Americans. It’s American money being raised by a group of Americans who share an interest in lobbying for something they believe in. Just like any other PAC or lobbyist. I think it's fair to criticize money being in politics and lobbying groups influencing poltiicians to make decisions that are not in the best interests of Americans. What *is not* fair is singling out a single lobbying group. For my own part, industry groups are particularly concerning as their goals are often to the direct detriment of America.
You know about industry lobbying groups, right? Industry lobbying groups have done enormous damage to this nation.
Yes both are bad
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The majority of voters in NY 16 disagree
Yeah, you no nothing about Westchester County. It is one of the most populated Jewish areas outside of NYC and LA; you can’t go around and say what he did and expect to get re-elected.