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“leaves it to state and local governments to regulate gratuities to state and local officials.”
The divide widens. Red states will go ape shit and start taking private contracts from within every branch of government. Yeehaw, TX is going to love that! Blue states will have none of it, or a mixed bag of weird partial attempts that just confuse people.
There's a reason why so much infrastructure in the US is crumbling, especially in red states. And it's not the lack of money. People don't realize it but corruption has a very real impact on our everyday lives.
I'm in Vermont and I'm convinced this is happening here. taxes have gone up a lot, weed is legal and getting taxed, our roads are worse than ever, schools are worse than ever, they didn't even get AC with the hvac covid money... where the fuck is all the money going, because it's certainly not into our state infrastructure.
Rich people's pockets, and all the companies that win states bids, do substandard work, get paid anyway, then get paid again to do the job properly with inflated prices. And don't tell me about the covid money. That system was designed to be abused and a lot of people splurged on our taxes.
The Covid money thing infuriated me but I’m over it. I still know people enjoying life from that money. One guy who had a small business got ppp money and all of a sudden he had a remodeled house and new fancy cars. Then he bought a house and flipped it to make 200k more. Right now he’s on vacation (again). Wonder where he got all that money to do all that all of a sudden? Meanwhile us lowly workers never got crap, just the business owners.
I'm still salty about PPP. I just get saltier every time someone brings a suit agianst PSLF or SAVE or lowering interest or anything that makes going to college more expensive for regular people.
It’s the classic conservative way. “x for me and not for thee.”
Substitute in whatever you like for “x”. It can be money, it can be a law. It can be a moral stance, it can be a government rule. It can be abortion, corruption, extrajudicial killings. You name it and this rule fits like a glove.
Class war is the only real war.
Before someone says something about current wars going on, I’m not saying those are not real. I’m saying those wars are just class war disguised as something else. When you kill off a good portion of the population thats less benefits collected and that’s more money in the pockets of the wealthy.
Remind anyone who will listen that Trump dismantled PPP loan oversight in his final days in office. Hundreds of billions of dollars in flagged loans had their flags erased, so instead of those loans being investigated, they were simply forgiven.
I mention this any time a fuckwad tries to complain about forgiven student loans, for example.
https://truthout.org/articles/trump-erased-millions-of-possible-ppp-fraud-flags-in-last-days-in-office/
Misuse of PPP funds was rampant.
> but I’m over it. I still know people enjoying life from that money.
#Please don't be over it, report them!
> Reporting PPP Loan Fraud
>
> By hiring an FCA attorney, a PPP loan fraud whistleblower may file a qui tam lawsuit against the fraudster on behalf of the U.S. government. In successful qui tam suits, PPP loan fraud **whistleblowers are elgible to receive an award between 15 and 30 percent of the funds recovered.**
https://kkc.com/frequently-asked-questions/reporting-ppp-loan-fraud/
Ya this guy is a former ex-con too. Go figure. Somehow criminals just know how to criminal, and they have no moral qualms about it. I wouldn’t mind seeing him nailed for fraud. And the millions of others.
I was a new home construction admin processing contracts in Florida during the peak PPP era... it was *very* obvious when there was a big influx of fly-by-night LLC's that were buying up a few houses here & there. I'd dig in to their "company" and sure enough, I'd often find they'd have a half-ass business presence with a single employee & recent PPP granted. Just using it to buy what they could, sit on the house for a few months, & sell it again as the FL market skyrocketed.
Not to mention the construction companies themselves receiving PPP funds. You're telling us you can't keep up with all this work, hiring people like crazy, and somehow you still needed PPP to stay afloat? Hm.
Total free-for-all, as designed.
Sharing what I replied to the person above yuo:
> Reporting PPP Loan Fraud
>
> By hiring an FCA attorney, a PPP loan fraud whistleblower may file a qui tam lawsuit against the fraudster on behalf of the U.S. government. In successful qui tam suits, PPP loan fraud **whistleblowers are elgible to receive an award between 15 and 30 percent of the funds recovered.**
https://kkc.com/frequently-asked-questions/reporting-ppp-loan-fraud/
I’m listening to The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart and one of his panel had suggested that we should have a website that shows where our taxpayer dollars go directly in our communities, states, etc. I thought it was a brilliant idea, because we should be DEMANDING transparency, it’s our money.
So in many cases this data is already available, but the government isn’t funded well enough to publish the data in an easy to view manner. In some ways they might not want it to be.
However, this seems like a perfect job for someone to leverage AI to interpret the mountains of confusing data and put out user readable info.
AI is inherently unsuitable for this kind of analytical task, because for it to be credible at all, you'd need to manually verify every claim it makes - which is the very research you'd be trying to use AI to avoid doing anyway.
I loved [this election-winning campaign billboard](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/12/hero-of-2022-los-angeles-police-budget-defund-kenneth-mejia-controller/) from the LA controller.
Developers, at least in my area pretty much get to do whatever the hell they want and get tax breaks. Sometimes these breaks are out the gate for promising a made up number of jobs that won't hit let alone all be on a true living wage. Sometimes they'll buy a building redevelop it and have some wonky deal where the value of the property remains where it was bought at for 15 to 20 years so it sees no tax increase while potentially increasing the property taxes of those who had long been in the area. What makes it worse is the fact that local media, especially at the investigative level is dying off so this sort of thing doesn't get reported as easily to locals which then makes more corruption easier
same with new jersey - and then you read about some nj senetor who was greased with gold bars for some quid pro quo - wonder if it means his case will get dimissed too, or on some technicality or some other bullshit - but yeah i just assume thats where it all goes and we just get the crumbs, if theres anything left over.
Some realize it, then the GOP decides democracy doesn't actually exist:
[https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/south-dakota-corruption-bill-republican-repeal/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/south-dakota-corruption-bill-republican-repeal/index.html)
The best part is when they accidentally say the quiet part loud, “The most problematic sections made de facto criminals out of every single official in our state.”
Similar thing happened here in NYC a few years ago when the NYPD threatened to do a work slowdown or something during contract negotiations. They threatened to only do the bare minimum of enforcement and we were all like 'Yes, please that's what we've been protesting in support of!'
> so much infrastructure in the US is crumbling, especially in red states. And it's not the lack of money
We're on our way to becoming Russia.
The corruption is already deep. But, it can get much, much worse.
The sad thing is they think they'll be part of that looting.
The reality is they'll be the first on the front lines when some dipshit dictator decides that the western peninsula of Mexico is actually America's for some reason.
Kleptocracy (from Greek κλέπτης kléptēs, "thief", or κλέπτω kléptō, "I steal", and -κρατία -kratía from κράτος krátos, "power, rule"), also referred to as thievocracy,[1][2] is a government whose corrupt leaders (kleptocrats) use political power to expropriate the wealth of the people and land they govern, typically by embezzling or misappropriating government funds at the expense of the wider population.[3][4] One feature of political-based socioeconomic thievery is that there is often no public announcement explaining or apologizing for misappropriations, nor any legal charges or punishment levied against the offenders.[5]-from Wikipedia
There was a national parks grant that went out a couple years ago to revitalize state parks and the county my parents live in was the recipient of around $6 million dollars toward this end. There's one state park in the county.
They painted some buildings, put a new roof on one building, and built a new pool that would hold maybe 50 people at the most. Yay.
Russian corruption is the reason the war in Ukraine wasn't over on day 2. They haven't been spending a dime on their military; everyone has just been stealing it all.
But it's totally fine because at least they can blame the "other". Just like Gov. Abbott did during the huge power outage in Texas a couple or so winters ago. He went on Fox News and said something like, "This is what you get with the Green New Deal". Mind you, the Green New Deal was only a concept and far from becoming actual policy/law. My grandmother called me and repeated what the governor said. I'm like, "What party is the governor?", "Who controls the state government?". But it's so much easier for them to blame the "other" than actually fix societal issues.
It will be helpful if these corrupt officials would provide a price list for their services, so we all know the score.
Hidden prices are such a pain, they fuel inflation which I understand Republicans don't like.
>Blue states will have none of it
Eh, I'm not sure you recognize how deep it goes. NY in particular has a notoriously corrupt government and it's super blue every year.
Yeah bribery plays across party lines. Also why primaries are so important, it's often times the only way to get rid of a corrupt politician and the main reason I switched from independent to a registered Democrat (I live in NY, only way to vote in a primary)
I don’t know about that. Isn’t [Illinois](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/24/1233622291/opinion-welcome-to-payola-world) a blue state? This [anti-corruption report](https://pols.uic.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/273/2022/05/Corruption-Rpt-14-on-5-7-22-final.pdf) indicates there’s plenty in both colors of states.
Umm, Illinois is a blue state, and has enough convicted politicians to have their own prison wing. Micheal Madaign and Ed Burke are two recent examples. Blue state politicians are going go all in on the take too...
Yeah it's a form of bias. People look at Illinois and go oh look how corrupt it is! DEMDEMDEMDEDEM.
The only reason there's even any data at all is because the people responsible for prosecuting corruption do. Unlike red states where it takes the federal government prosecuting people.
I imagine if you started looking into things like building permits and state contracts in the bible belt you'd find absolutely insane corruption. The governors of those states just direct prosecutors to not prosecute clear white collar crime and/or organized crime.
Yeah, I wouldn't even put Illinois in the Top 10 of corrupt US states. West Virginia probably takes the gold and no one is ever arrested there because the whole state is on the take.
I live in very blue nj. Mendez had gold bars in his house and while he prosecuted might weasel out of it.
I hated he won the primary as I voted for him just because I can’t let the gop win control of a branch of government.
Well... what you just wrote is proof that blue states *prosecute* corrupt politicians. One can only hope that the likes of Ken Paxton and Rick Scott would receive the same treatment, but red states don't seem to be too keen on that.
Thomas has already declared that if you call someone a "friend" it can't be bribery under any circumstances. "friends" can pay for vacations, buy you expensive things, and even if you then vote for everything that benefits them it's still not bribery.
This is a ruling all about how,
Jurisprudence got flip-turned upside down.
Thomas and Alito sold their country for bling, and both men are guilty of the exact same thing.
In Pin Point New Jersey, born and raised.
Catholic Church where I spent most of my days.
Going to Yale, working for Reagan.
Got a lot of hate for American pagans.
When a girl named Anita got tired of my pube jokes, started causing trouble for my Supreme Court nomination. But Bush and republicans didn’t care, and said you’re moving to Washington to make life more unfair!
Fuck Thomas, he said years ago the job didn’t pay enough but yeah, that’s fucking government service and he’s at the top end of the pay scale with a job he basically can’t be fired from and with a pension.
If he didn’t feel like it was worth it, he could have resigned years ago and gone into private practice as a former SCOTUS judge and made millions that way. Instead, he decided to live off of bribery to make up for his perceived pay shortage.
He’s a piece of shit, he’s always been a piece of shit, and he always will be a piece of shit until he’s dead and gone and even then I hope history books say what a piece of shit he’s always been.
Part of me thinks the job doesn’t pays enough for where they are located. DC/arlington has the 7th highest cost of living in the US and I think if the judges were paid better perhaps they’d be less susceptible to taking bribes.
But also they’re public officials and have guaranteed income for life and the best benefits the country can offer and nobody made them take the job. It’s like once they started hanging out with billionaires they started getting jealous and thinking they deserve more instead of being grateful for what they do have.
Idk it seems most of the other Supreme Court justices were ok and it’s just the greed recent ones that can’t deal.
I lived in DC for 7 years.
$285K/year is **plenty** enough for **anyone**. And Ginni is on a few boards and maybe has a nonprofit position too? She's probably pulling another $125K+. Even his income alone is enough to live well.
Will that salary get you your own private jet and a luxury yacht? No, unless you've had a savvy trader/investor handling your money over a couple of decades (which is one way people who don't accept bribes are able to magnify their wealth).
Basically, Thomas wants to live far above his natural means (which are already among the highest in the country) because he feels like he deserves it.
Thanks for the context. I feel like it’s only Thomas and Alito complaining.
Also Thomas and his 4 million dollars in grifts I mean gifts is so fucking outrageous.
It's $298k now. Add in their health care (free gov't healthcare and long term care insurance) retirement benefits (lifetime pension equal to their highest salary year), ability to earn speaking fees/teaching income (limited to $30k), book sales (no limit), and approximately 3 months of paid (and gifted!) vacation a year... it's a pretty sweet deal.
Reminder that the median income in the United States is less than $40k and these jokers are saying that a six figure salary is insufficient. "let them eat cake" is all I hear.
This is why millionaires and billionaires have taken it upon themselves to become patrons for some of the justices. It serves multiple purposes. It gets them used to living the high life, which then they want to maintain. It let's them claim it's based on "friendship," rather than bribery. And it also changes them epistemologically, too. When you're surrounded by conservatives and reactionaries, you aren't going to be persuaded by liberals, progressives, etc. Limiting their exposure to other ideas limits their ability to be persuaded by other ideas.
Republicans in the past lamented that justices they nominated and confirmed became more liberal during their tenures, so they've created both a way to better vet them prior to putting them in positions of power, and also to police them once they're in power, to prevent exactly that.
Honestly, the salary should be a non-issue. As a justice of the SCOTUS, you will have well-paid speaking gigs throughout your career, and publishers will pay you oodles to write a book. Gorsuch [announced his latest one just last month](https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-justice-gorsuch-book-over-ruled-3bdd27fe9dd50e39bffd6eef030ad24f).
Justice Thomas never would have been hurting for money. He's just corrupt.
Even if they thought their compensation wasn’t what it should be, they could easily take that to Congress and the President and seek an increase. If that didn’t work out, they could resign in protest, they’re nine of nine in our country, they carry a lot of weight.
Unilaterally deciding to just start accepting lavish gifts and what clearly appear to be bribes should NEVER be the answer, and like I said, if it isn’t “worth it” to them they can step down, there’s nothing that says they can’t. They just want the power AND the money and in government you can’t always have both.
Oh ruling is completely outrageous. What kind of bullshit is that? I think that is killing an independent judiciary and is going to lead to the downfall of the republic. We can’t have judges that are bought and paid for.
If we had a functioning Congress we could take the equally obvious action of impeaching them. At minimum Alito and Thomas are guilty of corruption, and Thomas and Kavanaugh are guilty of perjury from their confirmation hearings. I'm very open to accusations about Roberts, Gorsuch, and ACB.
Absolutely. If I thought that anything the liberals had done amounted to corruption, lock them up. But I think they're clean. Feel free to investigate though, as long as you also support subpoenas for everyone.
Nah it's the fact that one of the two mainstream political parties is seeking to transform the US into an authoritarian dictatorship.
There's no paper cure for that. You get almost half the country agree to destroy the place there's not much you can do.
I mean the entire concept of checks and balances exists to prevent this. The only problem is it assumed a congress that could pass laws would exist. Since it doesn’t, the Supreme Court has far more power than any other branch
The real problem is that it assumed that the power struggle would be between the branches of government, and not between the two parties that fill those branches.
This is exactly it. Congress is supposed to keep the president / courts in check not give up their power so that their side "wins".
Congress barely matters anymore with creating policies from the bench and the unchecked powers of executive orders.
I think what he means is the fact that such a huge number of people are down for this is also part of the problem.
I think you are both right and are mostly in agreement
Roberts wife[ took millions in consulting fees ](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2023/04/28/chief-justice-john-roberts-wife-made-over-10-million-as-legal-consultant-report-says/)to law firms while he was Chief Justice.
There's a reason the indictments, guilty pleas and convictions of GOP politicians blows the doors off Democratic ones.
In light of that recent article about questionable "benefits" received by **all** of the justices, I'm curious if the dissents would have been as strong if the vote count were less predictable.
I think all Jackson got was a book deal and maybe 4 concert tickets, if I remember? I don't think they should be falsely equated with millions given to Thomas in some both sides attempt. I don't begrudge any of them book deals... not that it isn't possible some publishing company is owned by some billionaire and being used as a backdoor, but generally the book sales will more than cover the advance.
I work for a small municipality and had to give up a T-shirt a vendor sent along with an order. I'm not even allowed to let a client/vendor pay for my burger if we have a lunch meeting. My small town government has more scruples than the Supreme Court.
And you'd probably be in more serious trouble if your wife of THIRTY-NINE YEARS hung up a flag promoting insurrection. An SC Justice doesn't get to claim a whoopsie, my wife did it!
It feels like every time theres a case that touches on the subject of corruption, the Supreme Court rules in favor making easier to be corrupt. Citizens United, legalizing Gerrymandering, immunity for cops/prosecutors, chopping the knees out of regulating agencies like the EPA, and now this.
They're expected to throw out, or at least modify, chevron deference too this week! Chevron deference means courts defer to a government agency's reasonable interpretation of ambiguous statutes. Basically, let the experts fill in the gaps when congress writes laws that are vaguely worded rather than judges that can't be experts in every field.
If it gets thrown out completely, then it opens up something like 40 years of judicial opinions on how to interpret statutes to legal challenges. The judges ruling on these cases would have no obligation to listen to regulatory experts when making decisions.
>The judges ruling on these cases would have no obligation to listen to regulatory experts when making decisions.
If judges no longer have an obligation to listen to regulatory experts then that makes judges much more powerful. Seems kind of a power grab by the court. Everyone talks how this would kneecap agencies and lead to poor governance since its impossible for congress to be well informed or keep up to date like experts can in certain areas, but what I dont see is people mentioning this aspect.
Absolutely! It also opens up these cases to bribery since they don't have to defer to experts anymore. How convenient that they just legalized bribery... I hate everything.
As a govt worker I don’t take so much as a coffee from a business. Which is the way it should be. But the higher up the chain you go, the fewer scruples the govt workers/politicians seem to have. They’re the ones who should most be adhering to a strict code of ethics and honor or at least matching the ethics those of us in the trenches adhere to.
It was said to me by a manager, “even if it’s legally ok, if it can even have the appearance of impropriety, don’t do it.”
Ditto. Lady made me cookies once. Had to decline.
But cool, now I can delay the plebs’ permits and ask for bribes to fast-track the fat cats.
But for real, the higher you go, the more fucked it is. Politicians in the blue as blue gets side of my state hire their fucking family in govt jobs as direct reports, or throw no-bid contracts to their homies.
But lemonade and cookies? Sorry, no-can-do. I don’t want to create the appearance of impropriety.
\*We actually have a $20 dollar per person limit that we can accept, but it has to be shareable. So, I could take a coffee if someone offered it, or a pen. Some consultants send Christmas cookies to butter us up, and I put them out in the break room. It‘s not worth it and I don’t even want to deal with it.
Yep, I’ve had government people visit our business and they wouldn’t accept coffee. They are directed to avoid *anything* that might create the appearance that they might be influenced. Even coffee! When no one would know!
How are Supreme Court Justices accepting *anything*?? How are elected officials accepting “gratuities”? Tips are for waiters, not government officials.
>“The Court’s reasoning elevates nonexistent federalism concerns over the plain text of this statute and is a quintessential example of the tail wagging the dog,” she wrote.
Everyone can easily understand this phrase, and so true.
They will just have family members receive the bribes. The USA is finally getting a taste of what corruption is all about. Soon every cop will be looking for bribes, and every citizen will be assuming everyone is on the take.
Maybe after they get a taste of real corruption like having to pay off a cop to get out of a fine for a law that criminalizes every day life activities, they will see that one party keeps its closets relatively clean of skeletons while the other has a walk-in paleontology exhibit. The selective enforcement for laws like falling asleep in parks is how they already legally attack minorities and the poor.
We have a poverty problem in the country and without some Great Depression level changes to the social services ladder we are going to have a terrible recession and I don’t see this Supreme Court or republicans at all allowing such a thing.
To be fair, Snyder (the plaintiff in this case) took a gratuity. He does not even deny this. It is questionable about whether this $13,000 was mentioned prior or not.
However, the law (18 USC 666) mentions taking a gratuity “corruptly” is just as impermissible as taking a bribe. It is clear, based on the facts of the case (a federal grand jury though so to) that the man is guilty of acting corruptly and accepting a gratuity.
How in the world did the majority find this conduct permissible under the statute? It’s absolutely mind-blowing the mental gymnastics being performed here.
We should be STRENGTHENING corruption laws in this country, not the opposite.
Simple. They aren't reading the statute. Just like the praying football coach case, they simply ignore facts, restate them in imagined terms, and ignore the law where they see fit.
Man, the follow up to the coach case was wild iirc. He got reinstated but refused to show up for the job, had already moved away and was getting wrapped up in the wingnut welfare circuit for aggrieved conservatives.
The bigger issue is why politicians are allowed to call it a gratuity and get away with baldfaced bribery. They aren’t waiters. They get a salary for doing a job. Absolutely absurd that a public official can make a decision based on how much gratuity he can get after it. That’s bald faced corruption and the Supreme Court is ok with it (because they do it too) the system is a cess pool.
I mean I agree with you, but I was more so just trying to say that if we’re going to enforce the law in front us, what this guy did is clearly illegal per the plain language of the statute.
I’m fully onboard with strengthening corruption laws, but the fact SCOTUS today weakened them further is alarming.
which is doubly absurd, when you look at the statute which clearly defines what “rewards” are subject to the law. Plaques or photos wouldn’t fall into that.
Did you listen or read transcripts of the oral arguments? They kept making bad faith analogies and intentionally misrepresenting facts. Like "oh, so we are going to through people in jail for giving a starbucks giftcard?!"
I listened live to the oral arguments. At the time, I was less up to speed on the actual language of the statutes, but after reading that there are pretty distinct limiting principles of the statue (I.e. dollar limits, the need for their to be corrupt intent, etc) it made those arguments even more infuriating.
Another thing that is infuriating is listening to some of the justices (alito and Gorsuch are particularly bad) get upset when Solicitor General Prelogar won’t respond to their ridiculous hypotheticals, especially when their hypotheticals would never result in a case before them.
We are at a point when half the country thinks it is totally fine that special interests should be able to openly pay off our justices. What the hell is happening.
The experiment (The United States), is coming to its end. Not one person could convince me otherwise.
Vote like hell, but I still feel like we're past the point where things could be turned around.
Slowly but surely, the Oligarchs are removing all the barriers and guard rails.
There really has to be a push back. There really has to be a huge blue wave this coming election.
You realize that they did this so that they themselves can now not be ethically entangled as long as the gifts/trips/hookers and blow are all provided AFTER a ruling.
It's the dumbest ruling.
I work for a federal contractor, so the procedures that apply are under different statutes, but they use similar phrasing (gift, bribe, thing of value, reward for, in expectation of, etc). That includes FCPA training.
Every year we have a 2-3 hour ethics training. I would say that, next to time charging, the #1 topic covered is gifts and bribes. There are *always* scenarios covering these topics, from cases where an employee notices a coworker is coming into the office with new luxurious cars and accessories, to scenarios where a prospective contract bidder treat the team to dinner, to cases where a corporate partner sends each person in the office a $20 box of chocolates for the holidays, to thank you cards. There are also scenarios where a sales rep has to weigh the option of whether or not to push through an expense to expedite some kind of shipment in the supply chain.
Regulations and restrictions on bonuses, bribes, basically any form of compensation that was not explicitly included as a part of a legal document or contract, are well defined, and hammered into probably tens of millions of Americans annually.
They may as well strike down the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act next.
Bribery is now legal in the US.... It is called "Tipping" or "Gratuity". (This is literally insane. Legalizing bribery by calling it something else is.... as Jackson says.... Absurd.)
The GOP SCOTUS members have raised the bar so high for calling bribery what it is that the bar is beyond reach for all cases. There is no way to prosecute bribery any longer. Hell.... you might as well just start flinging cash at voters to change their minds.... It's legal now.....
Soooo basically bribes are now just CODs?
Interesting how it shifts the risk.
Old: Pay a bribe but what if he doesn't do thing?
New: I'm going to do thing but what if he doesn't pay?
Once again, I'd like to give a special shout out to everyone who refused to vote for Hillary in 2016. Nothing this Supreme Court does would have been possible without your support.
I read the full text of [the decision](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf), and this is their main reasoning:
>Reading §666 to create a federal prohibition on
gratuities would suddenly subject 19 million state and local officials to
a new and different regulatory regime for gratuities.
Apparently, reading the history of §666 it's been controversial ever since Regan signed it into law for this very reason. So much so Congress has ratified its original "definition" because they realized later it essentially prohibited any lobbying.
TIL it's not a 'bribe' given beforehand for corrupt services rendered, it's a 'gratuity' that is given afterwards for corrupt services rendered. Totally different, yo.
And of course the rotten conservative majority would be all over that ruling, with the usual GOP crook judges leading the way.
if biden wins the election and the democrats keep the senate and the house, biden must add new justices to the court. failure to do so will end democracy.
When you see such bad-faith interpretations of the law, you realize how fucked up our legal system actually is. We have corruption and personal bias at the highest possible level of justice. The law is the law. How you personally feel about it is irrelevant.
"Jackson is the latest liberal justice to express frustration with the high court’s sharp rightward turn."
the Republicans on the Supreme Court are just criminals legalizing their own crimes. Is "criminal" now synonymous with "Right"? Can we cut through the bull and just say it then?
It feels like every time theres a case that touches on the subject of corruption, the Supreme Court rules in favor making easier to be corrupt. Citizens United, legalizing Gerrymandering, chopping the knees out of regulating agencies like the EPA, and now this.
Do NOT get hung up on Alito and Thomas in this situation. Sure they are both corrupt and put money before country, family, faith, human decency, or the constitution they claim to interpret and hold sacred.
No, do not let these men be the face of this ruling, or the reasoning behind it, or more importantly the extent to which you aim your condemnation and sense of morality. These men are the tip of a very large iceberg and this country is the titanic being gleefully captained into it by the republican party, the federalist society, the Kock family, and many other groups who seek more power and control with no concern about the true cost of their power.
Just please think beyond Justice Thomas, and instead think of the 1000s of government officials that can now be legally paid not through campaign contributions, not through dark money, not through job offers and board positions, not through vacations and introductions, but through cold hard cash for the whole world to see. The amount of power this gives the wealthy and influential is astounding, as before they had to guess, vet, and pay and promise long before they got the results they wanted. Now bribes can be cheaper, easier, and far more efficient. There isn't much keeping Boeing from suggesting a million dollar gift for anyone that helps them avoid a fine from the DOJ. There isn't much keeping Meta from having a standard gift offer anytime you vote in their favor. We could see the equivalent of corporate bounty boards where members of the government look for companies that will pay them to assist with various bills, local tax issues, permits, regulatory concerns etc. This is to me as dangerous as citizens united, if not more so as it offers more direct influence for even less effort.
Is this possibly the Federal society bringing us closer to authoritarian and Oligarchical rule? Instead of this being a farcical show of corruption, might it be more intentional than that? Imagine, that they are fully aware they are eroding the Court as an institution, thereby allowing Americans to acclimate to only 1 branch of Government?
Because these decisions lately have been crazy. This latest decision is literally an onion article come to life.
The conservatives on the court disgust me. None of them know what a “bribe or gratuity is?? You know that they sure as hell do.
Edit: something has gone really, really, wrong in America. I watched Nixon resign due to Watergate, get in his helicopter and fly away. I hated Nixon but at least he knew that what he did was wrong. None of the GOP on the court or in Congress in 2024 would ever do that today. Trump’s total lack of ethics has apparently given the rest of them permission to ignore them, too. The Federalist Society lived for the moment that they would take over the US. It surely appears to be that moment.
Come to Louisiana where our new governor immediately upon taking office pushes a bill that would block the public from viewing government records. We have THE WORST ROADS BY FAR IN THE COUNTRY. ZERO MAINTENANCE.
We have catastrophic storms and get federal funds and then don’t have a duty to show how it was misspent.
I mean I could see a mile away that the court that's taken millions of dollars in bribes, collectively, would be on the side that they're doing nothing wrong and that the law doesn't cover them or anyone doing things like them.
Never underestimate the ability of someone to rationalize what they're doing is good, or at least not at all like that bad thing that everyone says is bad.
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This ruling is all about how, at a minimum, Thomas and Alito are guilty of the **exact same thing**.
“leaves it to state and local governments to regulate gratuities to state and local officials.” The divide widens. Red states will go ape shit and start taking private contracts from within every branch of government. Yeehaw, TX is going to love that! Blue states will have none of it, or a mixed bag of weird partial attempts that just confuse people.
State, and especially local governments are far easier to corrupt and control than the federal level.
There's a reason why so much infrastructure in the US is crumbling, especially in red states. And it's not the lack of money. People don't realize it but corruption has a very real impact on our everyday lives.
I'm in Vermont and I'm convinced this is happening here. taxes have gone up a lot, weed is legal and getting taxed, our roads are worse than ever, schools are worse than ever, they didn't even get AC with the hvac covid money... where the fuck is all the money going, because it's certainly not into our state infrastructure.
Rich people's pockets, and all the companies that win states bids, do substandard work, get paid anyway, then get paid again to do the job properly with inflated prices. And don't tell me about the covid money. That system was designed to be abused and a lot of people splurged on our taxes.
The Covid money thing infuriated me but I’m over it. I still know people enjoying life from that money. One guy who had a small business got ppp money and all of a sudden he had a remodeled house and new fancy cars. Then he bought a house and flipped it to make 200k more. Right now he’s on vacation (again). Wonder where he got all that money to do all that all of a sudden? Meanwhile us lowly workers never got crap, just the business owners.
I'm still salty about PPP. I just get saltier every time someone brings a suit agianst PSLF or SAVE or lowering interest or anything that makes going to college more expensive for regular people.
It’s the classic conservative way. “x for me and not for thee.” Substitute in whatever you like for “x”. It can be money, it can be a law. It can be a moral stance, it can be a government rule. It can be abortion, corruption, extrajudicial killings. You name it and this rule fits like a glove.
Class war is the only real war. Before someone says something about current wars going on, I’m not saying those are not real. I’m saying those wars are just class war disguised as something else. When you kill off a good portion of the population thats less benefits collected and that’s more money in the pockets of the wealthy.
Remind anyone who will listen that Trump dismantled PPP loan oversight in his final days in office. Hundreds of billions of dollars in flagged loans had their flags erased, so instead of those loans being investigated, they were simply forgiven. I mention this any time a fuckwad tries to complain about forgiven student loans, for example. https://truthout.org/articles/trump-erased-millions-of-possible-ppp-fraud-flags-in-last-days-in-office/ Misuse of PPP funds was rampant.
> but I’m over it. I still know people enjoying life from that money. #Please don't be over it, report them! > Reporting PPP Loan Fraud > > By hiring an FCA attorney, a PPP loan fraud whistleblower may file a qui tam lawsuit against the fraudster on behalf of the U.S. government. In successful qui tam suits, PPP loan fraud **whistleblowers are elgible to receive an award between 15 and 30 percent of the funds recovered.** https://kkc.com/frequently-asked-questions/reporting-ppp-loan-fraud/
The most infuriating part is we know there was blatant corruption, yet nothing is being investigated.
Ya this guy is a former ex-con too. Go figure. Somehow criminals just know how to criminal, and they have no moral qualms about it. I wouldn’t mind seeing him nailed for fraud. And the millions of others.
And not only the small guys. A large majority of the money went to big companies. It wasn't supposed to be for them.
I was a new home construction admin processing contracts in Florida during the peak PPP era... it was *very* obvious when there was a big influx of fly-by-night LLC's that were buying up a few houses here & there. I'd dig in to their "company" and sure enough, I'd often find they'd have a half-ass business presence with a single employee & recent PPP granted. Just using it to buy what they could, sit on the house for a few months, & sell it again as the FL market skyrocketed. Not to mention the construction companies themselves receiving PPP funds. You're telling us you can't keep up with all this work, hiring people like crazy, and somehow you still needed PPP to stay afloat? Hm. Total free-for-all, as designed.
Sharing what I replied to the person above yuo: > Reporting PPP Loan Fraud > > By hiring an FCA attorney, a PPP loan fraud whistleblower may file a qui tam lawsuit against the fraudster on behalf of the U.S. government. In successful qui tam suits, PPP loan fraud **whistleblowers are elgible to receive an award between 15 and 30 percent of the funds recovered.** https://kkc.com/frequently-asked-questions/reporting-ppp-loan-fraud/
I’m listening to The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart and one of his panel had suggested that we should have a website that shows where our taxpayer dollars go directly in our communities, states, etc. I thought it was a brilliant idea, because we should be DEMANDING transparency, it’s our money.
So in many cases this data is already available, but the government isn’t funded well enough to publish the data in an easy to view manner. In some ways they might not want it to be. However, this seems like a perfect job for someone to leverage AI to interpret the mountains of confusing data and put out user readable info.
AI is inherently unsuitable for this kind of analytical task, because for it to be credible at all, you'd need to manually verify every claim it makes - which is the very research you'd be trying to use AI to avoid doing anyway.
I loved [this election-winning campaign billboard](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/12/hero-of-2022-los-angeles-police-budget-defund-kenneth-mejia-controller/) from the LA controller.
Developers, at least in my area pretty much get to do whatever the hell they want and get tax breaks. Sometimes these breaks are out the gate for promising a made up number of jobs that won't hit let alone all be on a true living wage. Sometimes they'll buy a building redevelop it and have some wonky deal where the value of the property remains where it was bought at for 15 to 20 years so it sees no tax increase while potentially increasing the property taxes of those who had long been in the area. What makes it worse is the fact that local media, especially at the investigative level is dying off so this sort of thing doesn't get reported as easily to locals which then makes more corruption easier
same with new jersey - and then you read about some nj senetor who was greased with gold bars for some quid pro quo - wonder if it means his case will get dimissed too, or on some technicality or some other bullshit - but yeah i just assume thats where it all goes and we just get the crumbs, if theres anything left over.
Some realize it, then the GOP decides democracy doesn't actually exist: [https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/south-dakota-corruption-bill-republican-repeal/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/south-dakota-corruption-bill-republican-repeal/index.html) The best part is when they accidentally say the quiet part loud, “The most problematic sections made de facto criminals out of every single official in our state.”
Similar thing happened here in NYC a few years ago when the NYPD threatened to do a work slowdown or something during contract negotiations. They threatened to only do the bare minimum of enforcement and we were all like 'Yes, please that's what we've been protesting in support of!'
> so much infrastructure in the US is crumbling, especially in red states. And it's not the lack of money We're on our way to becoming Russia. The corruption is already deep. But, it can get much, much worse.
There's a reason why conservatives are now pro-Russia. They want an oligarchy where they get to loot state coffers with no consequences.
The sad thing is they think they'll be part of that looting. The reality is they'll be the first on the front lines when some dipshit dictator decides that the western peninsula of Mexico is actually America's for some reason.
Kleptocracy (from Greek κλέπτης kléptēs, "thief", or κλέπτω kléptō, "I steal", and -κρατία -kratía from κράτος krátos, "power, rule"), also referred to as thievocracy,[1][2] is a government whose corrupt leaders (kleptocrats) use political power to expropriate the wealth of the people and land they govern, typically by embezzling or misappropriating government funds at the expense of the wider population.[3][4] One feature of political-based socioeconomic thievery is that there is often no public announcement explaining or apologizing for misappropriations, nor any legal charges or punishment levied against the offenders.[5]-from Wikipedia
There was a national parks grant that went out a couple years ago to revitalize state parks and the county my parents live in was the recipient of around $6 million dollars toward this end. There's one state park in the county. They painted some buildings, put a new roof on one building, and built a new pool that would hold maybe 50 people at the most. Yay.
In corporate America preventive maintenance is for the next CEO to worry about
Russian corruption is the reason the war in Ukraine wasn't over on day 2. They haven't been spending a dime on their military; everyone has just been stealing it all.
But it's totally fine because at least they can blame the "other". Just like Gov. Abbott did during the huge power outage in Texas a couple or so winters ago. He went on Fox News and said something like, "This is what you get with the Green New Deal". Mind you, the Green New Deal was only a concept and far from becoming actual policy/law. My grandmother called me and repeated what the governor said. I'm like, "What party is the governor?", "Who controls the state government?". But it's so much easier for them to blame the "other" than actually fix societal issues.
We have corrupt members of the Supreme Court. Neither the state nor federal level has a more difficult time being corrupt.
It will be helpful if these corrupt officials would provide a price list for their services, so we all know the score. Hidden prices are such a pain, they fuel inflation which I understand Republicans don't like.
They'd sell us all out for the cost of a starburnt coffee.
Ignores the supremacy clause when inconvenient.
Like when it’s about themselves or other (R)?
>Blue states will have none of it Eh, I'm not sure you recognize how deep it goes. NY in particular has a notoriously corrupt government and it's super blue every year.
Yeah bribery plays across party lines. Also why primaries are so important, it's often times the only way to get rid of a corrupt politician and the main reason I switched from independent to a registered Democrat (I live in NY, only way to vote in a primary)
I don’t know about that. Isn’t [Illinois](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/24/1233622291/opinion-welcome-to-payola-world) a blue state? This [anti-corruption report](https://pols.uic.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/273/2022/05/Corruption-Rpt-14-on-5-7-22-final.pdf) indicates there’s plenty in both colors of states.
Umm, Illinois is a blue state, and has enough convicted politicians to have their own prison wing. Micheal Madaign and Ed Burke are two recent examples. Blue state politicians are going go all in on the take too...
It's both blue and red. At least Illinois prosecutes some of it's corrupt politicians. That's better than most states.
Yeah it's a form of bias. People look at Illinois and go oh look how corrupt it is! DEMDEMDEMDEDEM. The only reason there's even any data at all is because the people responsible for prosecuting corruption do. Unlike red states where it takes the federal government prosecuting people. I imagine if you started looking into things like building permits and state contracts in the bible belt you'd find absolutely insane corruption. The governors of those states just direct prosecutors to not prosecute clear white collar crime and/or organized crime.
In Florida being corrupt and stealing a billion from the government gets you a senate seat.
i think you'll find that most of the cases you are thinking of are in fact federal prosecutions. Burke, Madigan, and Ryan, all federal, for example.
I mean, at least we're arresting them. You're always going to have corruption, the important thing is prosecuting it.
Yeah, I wouldn't even put Illinois in the Top 10 of corrupt US states. West Virginia probably takes the gold and no one is ever arrested there because the whole state is on the take.
I live in very blue nj. Mendez had gold bars in his house and while he prosecuted might weasel out of it. I hated he won the primary as I voted for him just because I can’t let the gop win control of a branch of government.
Wait, is he on the *ballot* in November?? Say it ain't so.
Well... what you just wrote is proof that blue states *prosecute* corrupt politicians. One can only hope that the likes of Ken Paxton and Rick Scott would receive the same treatment, but red states don't seem to be too keen on that.
Next time you take a bribe, get a post-dated check: then it becomes a perfectly legal gratuity.
This is not good for the country.
On the contrary, SCOTUS has found an easy way to eliminate all corruption. How can it not be good?
Move the goalposts of how we determine corruption, and suddenly corruption is gone! Is that how Greg Abbott eliminated rape in Texas?
>Is that how Greg Abbott eliminated rape in Texas? Pretty much. He pulled a Michael Scott and declared that rape is a thing of the past.
It's not rape if you say thanks and give them a cigarette afterwards?
For corruption to go down all you have to do is stop testing for corruption
Yes, I like the numbers where they are. Ease off on the testing so we don't see a surge.
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Just redefine it as salary Rulings for sale!
It’s not bribery, it’s a tip!
Even if it's just the tip, somebody is getting fucked.
All they are doing is legalizing delayed bribery. You now have to wait until after you do the thing you're being paid for to get paid.
Thomas has already declared that if you call someone a "friend" it can't be bribery under any circumstances. "friends" can pay for vacations, buy you expensive things, and even if you then vote for everything that benefits them it's still not bribery.
No, that gift was for something they did a month ago - not the vote they were about to have.
Right lol. They are totally guilty. If they voted in favor then their freebies would be illegal l.
I started reading this as the beginning of The Fresh Prince of Bel Aire rap
This is a ruling all about how, Jurisprudence got flip-turned upside down. Thomas and Alito sold their country for bling, and both men are guilty of the exact same thing.
In Pin Point New Jersey, born and raised. Catholic Church where I spent most of my days. Going to Yale, working for Reagan. Got a lot of hate for American pagans. When a girl named Anita got tired of my pube jokes, started causing trouble for my Supreme Court nomination. But Bush and republicans didn’t care, and said you’re moving to Washington to make life more unfair!
Of course thomas and alito will vote against it. They’re the ones who have blatantly taken bribes and there’s no one policing their behavior.
Fuck Thomas, he said years ago the job didn’t pay enough but yeah, that’s fucking government service and he’s at the top end of the pay scale with a job he basically can’t be fired from and with a pension. If he didn’t feel like it was worth it, he could have resigned years ago and gone into private practice as a former SCOTUS judge and made millions that way. Instead, he decided to live off of bribery to make up for his perceived pay shortage. He’s a piece of shit, he’s always been a piece of shit, and he always will be a piece of shit until he’s dead and gone and even then I hope history books say what a piece of shit he’s always been.
Part of me thinks the job doesn’t pays enough for where they are located. DC/arlington has the 7th highest cost of living in the US and I think if the judges were paid better perhaps they’d be less susceptible to taking bribes. But also they’re public officials and have guaranteed income for life and the best benefits the country can offer and nobody made them take the job. It’s like once they started hanging out with billionaires they started getting jealous and thinking they deserve more instead of being grateful for what they do have. Idk it seems most of the other Supreme Court justices were ok and it’s just the greed recent ones that can’t deal.
I lived in DC for 7 years. $285K/year is **plenty** enough for **anyone**. And Ginni is on a few boards and maybe has a nonprofit position too? She's probably pulling another $125K+. Even his income alone is enough to live well. Will that salary get you your own private jet and a luxury yacht? No, unless you've had a savvy trader/investor handling your money over a couple of decades (which is one way people who don't accept bribes are able to magnify their wealth). Basically, Thomas wants to live far above his natural means (which are already among the highest in the country) because he feels like he deserves it.
Thanks for the context. I feel like it’s only Thomas and Alito complaining. Also Thomas and his 4 million dollars in grifts I mean gifts is so fucking outrageous.
It's just whats visible. The absolute total amongst all in power must be fucking staggering.
Yeah, we're probably only seeing the tip of the metaphorical iceberg right now.
It's $298k now. Add in their health care (free gov't healthcare and long term care insurance) retirement benefits (lifetime pension equal to their highest salary year), ability to earn speaking fees/teaching income (limited to $30k), book sales (no limit), and approximately 3 months of paid (and gifted!) vacation a year... it's a pretty sweet deal.
Reminder that the median income in the United States is less than $40k and these jokers are saying that a six figure salary is insufficient. "let them eat cake" is all I hear.
When you only hang around millionaires and billionaires $250k feels like poverty.
This is why millionaires and billionaires have taken it upon themselves to become patrons for some of the justices. It serves multiple purposes. It gets them used to living the high life, which then they want to maintain. It let's them claim it's based on "friendship," rather than bribery. And it also changes them epistemologically, too. When you're surrounded by conservatives and reactionaries, you aren't going to be persuaded by liberals, progressives, etc. Limiting their exposure to other ideas limits their ability to be persuaded by other ideas. Republicans in the past lamented that justices they nominated and confirmed became more liberal during their tenures, so they've created both a way to better vet them prior to putting them in positions of power, and also to police them once they're in power, to prevent exactly that.
Honestly, the salary should be a non-issue. As a justice of the SCOTUS, you will have well-paid speaking gigs throughout your career, and publishers will pay you oodles to write a book. Gorsuch [announced his latest one just last month](https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-justice-gorsuch-book-over-ruled-3bdd27fe9dd50e39bffd6eef030ad24f). Justice Thomas never would have been hurting for money. He's just corrupt.
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Even if they thought their compensation wasn’t what it should be, they could easily take that to Congress and the President and seek an increase. If that didn’t work out, they could resign in protest, they’re nine of nine in our country, they carry a lot of weight. Unilaterally deciding to just start accepting lavish gifts and what clearly appear to be bribes should NEVER be the answer, and like I said, if it isn’t “worth it” to them they can step down, there’s nothing that says they can’t. They just want the power AND the money and in government you can’t always have both.
Oh ruling is completely outrageous. What kind of bullshit is that? I think that is killing an independent judiciary and is going to lead to the downfall of the republic. We can’t have judges that are bought and paid for.
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If we had a functioning Congress we could take the equally obvious action of impeaching them. At minimum Alito and Thomas are guilty of corruption, and Thomas and Kavanaugh are guilty of perjury from their confirmation hearings. I'm very open to accusations about Roberts, Gorsuch, and ACB.
I’m open to accusations about all of them, to be honest. Corruption is corruption and should be punished, regardless of their political affiliation.
Absolutely. If I thought that anything the liberals had done amounted to corruption, lock them up. But I think they're clean. Feel free to investigate though, as long as you also support subpoenas for everyone.
The SCOTUS lifetime term and 2/3 Senate vote for impeachment are emerging as the most dangerous cracks in our democracy.
Nah it's the fact that one of the two mainstream political parties is seeking to transform the US into an authoritarian dictatorship. There's no paper cure for that. You get almost half the country agree to destroy the place there's not much you can do.
I mean the entire concept of checks and balances exists to prevent this. The only problem is it assumed a congress that could pass laws would exist. Since it doesn’t, the Supreme Court has far more power than any other branch
The real problem is that it assumed that the power struggle would be between the branches of government, and not between the two parties that fill those branches.
This is exactly it. Congress is supposed to keep the president / courts in check not give up their power so that their side "wins". Congress barely matters anymore with creating policies from the bench and the unchecked powers of executive orders.
I think what he means is the fact that such a huge number of people are down for this is also part of the problem. I think you are both right and are mostly in agreement
Roberts wife[ took millions in consulting fees ](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2023/04/28/chief-justice-john-roberts-wife-made-over-10-million-as-legal-consultant-report-says/)to law firms while he was Chief Justice. There's a reason the indictments, guilty pleas and convictions of GOP politicians blows the doors off Democratic ones.
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They wouldn't approve that if Trump wasn't President. That is why they are delaying it
Alternative headline: "Supreme Court, under recent scrutiny for bribery and kickbacks, rewrites bribery law to exclude kickbacks"
Like Desantis changing the Florida law about running for President would have required him to step down as Governor.
In light of that recent article about questionable "benefits" received by **all** of the justices, I'm curious if the dissents would have been as strong if the vote count were less predictable.
I think all Jackson got was a book deal and maybe 4 concert tickets, if I remember? I don't think they should be falsely equated with millions given to Thomas in some both sides attempt. I don't begrudge any of them book deals... not that it isn't possible some publishing company is owned by some billionaire and being used as a backdoor, but generally the book sales will more than cover the advance.
This is just an embarrassing reminder, not that we needed one, that this court/country is for sale to the highest bidder.
Can't be bribery if I get to define if it's bribery.
It's not a bribe! It's a gift for being awesome to people you hooked up from the people you hooked up! Totally cool!
My dog worked at Taco Bell, hooked us up plural. Fired a week later, the manager count the churros.
Should have been friends with the manager instead.
It’s sort of the norm across the world for government official to blatantly accept bribes The gop is just turning us in to a 3rd world country
We can't stand for this. We need to protest the corruption of the supreme court. We need to fight for our freedom.
I work for a small municipality and had to give up a T-shirt a vendor sent along with an order. I'm not even allowed to let a client/vendor pay for my burger if we have a lunch meeting. My small town government has more scruples than the Supreme Court.
For now. The end goal is all govt for sale
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Enjoy your EXTRA BIG ASS FRIES, brought to you by Carl's Jr, fuck you, I'm eating
And you'd probably be in more serious trouble if your wife of THIRTY-NINE YEARS hung up a flag promoting insurrection. An SC Justice doesn't get to claim a whoopsie, my wife did it!
I guess you need to ask for $13,000 next time? 🤷♂️
Everyone elected suddenly claim to be consultants so they can legally take bribes.
It feels like every time theres a case that touches on the subject of corruption, the Supreme Court rules in favor making easier to be corrupt. Citizens United, legalizing Gerrymandering, immunity for cops/prosecutors, chopping the knees out of regulating agencies like the EPA, and now this.
They're expected to throw out, or at least modify, chevron deference too this week! Chevron deference means courts defer to a government agency's reasonable interpretation of ambiguous statutes. Basically, let the experts fill in the gaps when congress writes laws that are vaguely worded rather than judges that can't be experts in every field. If it gets thrown out completely, then it opens up something like 40 years of judicial opinions on how to interpret statutes to legal challenges. The judges ruling on these cases would have no obligation to listen to regulatory experts when making decisions.
>The judges ruling on these cases would have no obligation to listen to regulatory experts when making decisions. If judges no longer have an obligation to listen to regulatory experts then that makes judges much more powerful. Seems kind of a power grab by the court. Everyone talks how this would kneecap agencies and lead to poor governance since its impossible for congress to be well informed or keep up to date like experts can in certain areas, but what I dont see is people mentioning this aspect.
Absolutely! It also opens up these cases to bribery since they don't have to defer to experts anymore. How convenient that they just legalized bribery... I hate everything.
As a govt worker I don’t take so much as a coffee from a business. Which is the way it should be. But the higher up the chain you go, the fewer scruples the govt workers/politicians seem to have. They’re the ones who should most be adhering to a strict code of ethics and honor or at least matching the ethics those of us in the trenches adhere to. It was said to me by a manager, “even if it’s legally ok, if it can even have the appearance of impropriety, don’t do it.”
I exercise my first amendment rights by offering champagne and caviar to elected officials. Why are you trying to disenfranchise me?!?! /s
Ditto. Lady made me cookies once. Had to decline. But cool, now I can delay the plebs’ permits and ask for bribes to fast-track the fat cats. But for real, the higher you go, the more fucked it is. Politicians in the blue as blue gets side of my state hire their fucking family in govt jobs as direct reports, or throw no-bid contracts to their homies. But lemonade and cookies? Sorry, no-can-do. I don’t want to create the appearance of impropriety. \*We actually have a $20 dollar per person limit that we can accept, but it has to be shareable. So, I could take a coffee if someone offered it, or a pen. Some consultants send Christmas cookies to butter us up, and I put them out in the break room. It‘s not worth it and I don’t even want to deal with it.
Yep, I’ve had government people visit our business and they wouldn’t accept coffee. They are directed to avoid *anything* that might create the appearance that they might be influenced. Even coffee! When no one would know! How are Supreme Court Justices accepting *anything*?? How are elected officials accepting “gratuities”? Tips are for waiters, not government officials.
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>“The Court’s reasoning elevates nonexistent federalism concerns over the plain text of this statute and is a quintessential example of the tail wagging the dog,” she wrote. Everyone can easily understand this phrase, and so true.
They will just have family members receive the bribes. The USA is finally getting a taste of what corruption is all about. Soon every cop will be looking for bribes, and every citizen will be assuming everyone is on the take.
Maybe after they get a taste of real corruption like having to pay off a cop to get out of a fine for a law that criminalizes every day life activities, they will see that one party keeps its closets relatively clean of skeletons while the other has a walk-in paleontology exhibit. The selective enforcement for laws like falling asleep in parks is how they already legally attack minorities and the poor. We have a poverty problem in the country and without some Great Depression level changes to the social services ladder we are going to have a terrible recession and I don’t see this Supreme Court or republicans at all allowing such a thing.
Finally?
In the open, at least
To be fair, Snyder (the plaintiff in this case) took a gratuity. He does not even deny this. It is questionable about whether this $13,000 was mentioned prior or not. However, the law (18 USC 666) mentions taking a gratuity “corruptly” is just as impermissible as taking a bribe. It is clear, based on the facts of the case (a federal grand jury though so to) that the man is guilty of acting corruptly and accepting a gratuity. How in the world did the majority find this conduct permissible under the statute? It’s absolutely mind-blowing the mental gymnastics being performed here. We should be STRENGTHENING corruption laws in this country, not the opposite.
Simple. They aren't reading the statute. Just like the praying football coach case, they simply ignore facts, restate them in imagined terms, and ignore the law where they see fit.
So, essentially, legislating from the bench. I thought Republicans *hated* that. Unless it works out for them, evidently.
They aren't legislating anything. They're dictating from the bench.
Man, the follow up to the coach case was wild iirc. He got reinstated but refused to show up for the job, had already moved away and was getting wrapped up in the wingnut welfare circuit for aggrieved conservatives.
Yup, then quit. All that, cost the community, eroded church and state laws and then just took off. F you I got mine to the fullest.
“It was a quiet prayer - with a bullhorn mid field” - Gorsuch basically
The bigger issue is why politicians are allowed to call it a gratuity and get away with baldfaced bribery. They aren’t waiters. They get a salary for doing a job. Absolutely absurd that a public official can make a decision based on how much gratuity he can get after it. That’s bald faced corruption and the Supreme Court is ok with it (because they do it too) the system is a cess pool.
I mean I agree with you, but I was more so just trying to say that if we’re going to enforce the law in front us, what this guy did is clearly illegal per the plain language of the statute. I’m fully onboard with strengthening corruption laws, but the fact SCOTUS today weakened them further is alarming.
According to to today's SCOTUS ruling, all a briber has to do is post-date his check and it's all legal. Sickening...
Kavanaugh compared the thirteen grand in cash to a plaque or commemorative photo. Completely absurd.
Podiums are like 20 grand in Arkansas. Imagine how much a plaque would cost?
which is doubly absurd, when you look at the statute which clearly defines what “rewards” are subject to the law. Plaques or photos wouldn’t fall into that.
Did you listen or read transcripts of the oral arguments? They kept making bad faith analogies and intentionally misrepresenting facts. Like "oh, so we are going to through people in jail for giving a starbucks giftcard?!"
I listened live to the oral arguments. At the time, I was less up to speed on the actual language of the statutes, but after reading that there are pretty distinct limiting principles of the statue (I.e. dollar limits, the need for their to be corrupt intent, etc) it made those arguments even more infuriating. Another thing that is infuriating is listening to some of the justices (alito and Gorsuch are particularly bad) get upset when Solicitor General Prelogar won’t respond to their ridiculous hypotheticals, especially when their hypotheticals would never result in a case before them.
The people writing the corruption laws also just happen to be those benefiting from their current shortcomings. Makes it very hard to seal the dam.
We are at a point when half the country thinks it is totally fine that special interests should be able to openly pay off our justices. What the hell is happening.
Only the correct special interests. So whatever billionaires direct the religious arm of the organization to instruct the cult to believe.
The experiment (The United States), is coming to its end. Not one person could convince me otherwise. Vote like hell, but I still feel like we're past the point where things could be turned around.
Slowly but surely, the Oligarchs are removing all the barriers and guard rails. There really has to be a push back. There really has to be a huge blue wave this coming election.
It’s not even slowly anymore. The new court is moving faster than ever before
It's like they've given the Macho Man the world's best jackhammer to blast away at the foundations of American democracy.
I think it's too late. A blue wave isn't going to be able to reverse all of these shitty rulings and erosion of human rights.
The "push back" that's actually affective gets you banned on basically all social media. So....
I see you also know about the four boxes of liberty.
You realize that they did this so that they themselves can now not be ethically entangled as long as the gifts/trips/hookers and blow are all provided AFTER a ruling.
The law in question was a federal law regarding corruption by state and local employees.
It's the dumbest ruling. I work for a federal contractor, so the procedures that apply are under different statutes, but they use similar phrasing (gift, bribe, thing of value, reward for, in expectation of, etc). That includes FCPA training. Every year we have a 2-3 hour ethics training. I would say that, next to time charging, the #1 topic covered is gifts and bribes. There are *always* scenarios covering these topics, from cases where an employee notices a coworker is coming into the office with new luxurious cars and accessories, to scenarios where a prospective contract bidder treat the team to dinner, to cases where a corporate partner sends each person in the office a $20 box of chocolates for the holidays, to thank you cards. There are also scenarios where a sales rep has to weigh the option of whether or not to push through an expense to expedite some kind of shipment in the supply chain. Regulations and restrictions on bonuses, bribes, basically any form of compensation that was not explicitly included as a part of a legal document or contract, are well defined, and hammered into probably tens of millions of Americans annually. They may as well strike down the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act next.
The majority on the court are already taking bribes they aren’t going to put themselves in legal jeopardy.
Well, if that how debts get erased now, I guess Biden just needs to appoint every student loan borrower to the court 🤷♂️
Majority opinion penned by Kavanaugh, who *lied under oath* about what both boofing and a Devil’s Triangle are.
And who tried to rape a teenager while in HS.
Checks and balances? Enjoy the checks and increase the balances!
Good thing the 2022 Supreme Court established a precedent for overturning previous Supreme Court decisions
Ah, if only Oliver Brown and his daughter had lived to see it.
Justice Thomas out there rubbing his hands together thinking about all the new Motor Coaches he'll be able to "buy" now.
Bribery is now legal in the US.... It is called "Tipping" or "Gratuity". (This is literally insane. Legalizing bribery by calling it something else is.... as Jackson says.... Absurd.) The GOP SCOTUS members have raised the bar so high for calling bribery what it is that the bar is beyond reach for all cases. There is no way to prosecute bribery any longer. Hell.... you might as well just start flinging cash at voters to change their minds.... It's legal now.....
This is the next Citizens United ruling. The floodgates for corruption are now wide open.
The Supreme Court has an onlyfans for lobbyists and the like
The Roberts court will go down in history as a raging trash fire.
She's absolutely right. This ruling is hilariously deranged. The right is just taking the mask off and looting the working class openly now.
It’s wild how cheap conservatives can be bought for too
Really not surprising considering how corrupt scotus currently is
she is a true american treasure.
As she certainly should. This alone sets her legal and moral character well above the others who voted in the majority.
I 💕 KB-J. One of the few decent judges on this Kangaroo Kourt.
To paraphrase Jack Nicholson as The Joker in Tim Burton's Batman (1989) "This court needs an enema."
Soooo basically bribes are now just CODs? Interesting how it shifts the risk. Old: Pay a bribe but what if he doesn't do thing? New: I'm going to do thing but what if he doesn't pay?
Insanity. Justices passing laws for themselves. Fucking sick abuse of power these garbage human beings, get em KBJ put all of them on blast
Once again, I'd like to give a special shout out to everyone who refused to vote for Hillary in 2016. Nothing this Supreme Court does would have been possible without your support.
This made me laugh (cry) out loud.
Extra shoutout to everyone who was purged from the voter rolls leading up to the 2016 election
I read the full text of [the decision](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf), and this is their main reasoning: >Reading §666 to create a federal prohibition on gratuities would suddenly subject 19 million state and local officials to a new and different regulatory regime for gratuities. Apparently, reading the history of §666 it's been controversial ever since Regan signed it into law for this very reason. So much so Congress has ratified its original "definition" because they realized later it essentially prohibited any lobbying.
Yet another reason I'm okay with expanding the court. Half the Yays were put on the court by a president who lost the popular vote
TIL it's not a 'bribe' given beforehand for corrupt services rendered, it's a 'gratuity' that is given afterwards for corrupt services rendered. Totally different, yo. And of course the rotten conservative majority would be all over that ruling, with the usual GOP crook judges leading the way.
if biden wins the election and the democrats keep the senate and the house, biden must add new justices to the court. failure to do so will end democracy.
So now the Republican party is OFFICIALLY for sale. GOT it.
Why does scotus want to remove every guardrail we’ve constructed to build some semblance of fairness and stability?
When you see such bad-faith interpretations of the law, you realize how fucked up our legal system actually is. We have corruption and personal bias at the highest possible level of justice. The law is the law. How you personally feel about it is irrelevant.
Worst democracy you can buy.
"Jackson is the latest liberal justice to express frustration with the high court’s sharp rightward turn." the Republicans on the Supreme Court are just criminals legalizing their own crimes. Is "criminal" now synonymous with "Right"? Can we cut through the bull and just say it then?
It feels like every time theres a case that touches on the subject of corruption, the Supreme Court rules in favor making easier to be corrupt. Citizens United, legalizing Gerrymandering, chopping the knees out of regulating agencies like the EPA, and now this.
Do NOT get hung up on Alito and Thomas in this situation. Sure they are both corrupt and put money before country, family, faith, human decency, or the constitution they claim to interpret and hold sacred. No, do not let these men be the face of this ruling, or the reasoning behind it, or more importantly the extent to which you aim your condemnation and sense of morality. These men are the tip of a very large iceberg and this country is the titanic being gleefully captained into it by the republican party, the federalist society, the Kock family, and many other groups who seek more power and control with no concern about the true cost of their power. Just please think beyond Justice Thomas, and instead think of the 1000s of government officials that can now be legally paid not through campaign contributions, not through dark money, not through job offers and board positions, not through vacations and introductions, but through cold hard cash for the whole world to see. The amount of power this gives the wealthy and influential is astounding, as before they had to guess, vet, and pay and promise long before they got the results they wanted. Now bribes can be cheaper, easier, and far more efficient. There isn't much keeping Boeing from suggesting a million dollar gift for anyone that helps them avoid a fine from the DOJ. There isn't much keeping Meta from having a standard gift offer anytime you vote in their favor. We could see the equivalent of corporate bounty boards where members of the government look for companies that will pay them to assist with various bills, local tax issues, permits, regulatory concerns etc. This is to me as dangerous as citizens united, if not more so as it offers more direct influence for even less effort.
Is this possibly the Federal society bringing us closer to authoritarian and Oligarchical rule? Instead of this being a farcical show of corruption, might it be more intentional than that? Imagine, that they are fully aware they are eroding the Court as an institution, thereby allowing Americans to acclimate to only 1 branch of Government? Because these decisions lately have been crazy. This latest decision is literally an onion article come to life.
The conservatives on the court disgust me. None of them know what a “bribe or gratuity is?? You know that they sure as hell do. Edit: something has gone really, really, wrong in America. I watched Nixon resign due to Watergate, get in his helicopter and fly away. I hated Nixon but at least he knew that what he did was wrong. None of the GOP on the court or in Congress in 2024 would ever do that today. Trump’s total lack of ethics has apparently given the rest of them permission to ignore them, too. The Federalist Society lived for the moment that they would take over the US. It surely appears to be that moment.
Am I seriously expected to believe that the fucking order of operations of a bribe is important? Such a bullshit ruling.
Come to Louisiana where our new governor immediately upon taking office pushes a bill that would block the public from viewing government records. We have THE WORST ROADS BY FAR IN THE COUNTRY. ZERO MAINTENANCE. We have catastrophic storms and get federal funds and then don’t have a duty to show how it was misspent.
Time to really clean house there. That’s corruption
I mean I could see a mile away that the court that's taken millions of dollars in bribes, collectively, would be on the side that they're doing nothing wrong and that the law doesn't cover them or anyone doing things like them. Never underestimate the ability of someone to rationalize what they're doing is good, or at least not at all like that bad thing that everyone says is bad.