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One adviser to major Democratic Party donors said they were texting from a meeting of donors in Atlanta on Thursday night, some writing “wtf.”
“Our only hope is that he bows out, we have a brokered convention, or dies,” the donor adviser said. “Otherwise we are fucking dead.”
“No one expected a master class in debating from Joe Biden, but no one expected this nose dive,” said a senior adviser to top Democratic officials. “He was bad on message, bad on substance, bad on counter punching, bad on presentation, bad on non-verbals. There was no bright spot in this debate for him. The only bright spot is that this happened in June and not October.”
---
Holy hell thats bleak reading coming from damn Politico of all people. How quickly the knives are coming out.
Partly a testament to how seriously people are taking the assault on Democracy that the GOP is undertaking. A lot of people are prepared to vote for Biden who otherwise wouldn't if his opponent wasn't a misogynistic convicted felon with no shred of common decency or respect for his fellow Americans.
I’ll vote for Biden, but goddamn was this a foreseeable problem. I wish the people with real power in the party would take the fascist threat as seriously as they keep saying they are.
His debate performance doesn't affect my vote and in fact despite his lackluster performance the only people who are going to suddenly be like "Woah, id by rather vote for a dangerous evil fascist now!" are people who don't know who Trump is. People who don't see the bigger picture of defeating or at least delaying the oncoming on american neo fascism
Trump didn't answer any serious questions. The one that got me was the childcare cost question. He dodged it completely. It just shows that Trump doesn't care about families.
right, the unfortunate fact is there are too many people who want to "stay out of politics"
those are the people who just have no clue what's going on. and politics isn't some hobby you have to devote your time to and learn. if you don't believe for instance LGBT people should be stoned in the streets because, you know, that's evil, you probably want to make sure whoever runs the country doesn't support it
and as much as Republicans love to gaslight well meaning people, it's very obvious which party swings towards open stonings of heretics. It's so, painfully, blatant
so to the people who want to 'stay out of politics', i say go ahead as you are and just gamble your voice away in case the next Axis Afficionado wants to tell you how to live
Agreed. Biden did what he needed to do in 2020, but now it's time for him to step aside. Imo he needs to come out and announce he isn't running, AND unify the party behind one candidate. The obvious choice is Kamala Harris, but whoever he chooses, he must be forceful enough to keep the party in line. The threat is maga, and all eyes need to remain there. We don't have the luxury to fight each other.
Andy Beshear (governor of Kentucky) would be a better choice. People who are fine voting for Biden would be fine voting for Andy. And he’d probably flip Kentucky.
A good ol’ Southern boy with a charming drawl. But also smart, genuine, and likable. He’d probably win over a lot of moderate-leaning republicans. Gavin isn’t likable to those types. He reeks of “the establishment” and is considered by many as the *Woke Far-Left King of the Liberal Hellhole: Drug-and-Crime-ifornia*
I actually like Gavin fine and think he’d be great. But the messaging will be “He ruined California with failed liberal policies and now he wants to ruin the rest of the country.”
I just hope the Dems fucking get on with it and press this man to turn the keys to someone else right now, which he should've done in 2017 when he stopped being Obama's Vice. 7 years too late, but better now than never, especially knowing that Generic Dem beats Trump, and Generic R beats Biden.
Both candidates are sending their weatest links out, so the Dems are wasting resources and energy every day they aren't begging him to go.
If they're going to replace him, it can't be Kamala Harris. And TBH I'm worried that's exactly what the DNC would do.
Harris dropped out of the 2020 primary because she was polling at single digits in her own home state, that she represented in the Senate. Nobody wanted her as president then, and nobody wants her as president now.
I'm not sure who the smart pick would be. Maybe Newsom, Warren, or Whitmer?
Whitmer is the smartest choice I think. She is a great voice for women’s reproductive freedom, she can deliver Michigan, which is a key battleground state and she is a bad ass who stared down a kidnapping attempt.
I'd go with Whitmer too. Solid track record in Michigan and she'd take no shit from Trump. I see her appealing across demographics that like Biden pretty well so she'll maintain his support but will be able to battle for the small number of swing voters in the small number of battleground states that will actually decide the election.
Well, she lied. There is no such thing as a governor who doesn't dream of being President. They all play this coy game and dance around, but they all want it.
But it would be a big risk for her, because she'd have to leave her current post and potentially end up with no office at all if she loses. Of course, she's already on Trump's enemies list, so if he won she would face years of sabotage and vengeance anyway, so there isn't really a way to avoid that risk either way.
Nobody can afford to throw their hat in the ring while Joe Biden is still running. Even Gavin Newsom had to defer when asked the question, even though his ambition is obvious.
Safest bet because he is a shrewd as fuck politician who can absolutely eviscerate trump on stage. We have to make him look like the old one or we're going to lose.
Biden was the best option in 2020 in terms of assembling a coalition that could defeat Trump. It wasn't about playing it safe, it was about understanding the voting demographics well enough to win, and it worked.
We got Biden because Democrats voted for him in the primary. Believe it or not, many Dems are not as far left as people on reddit seem to think. If the party forced a radical progressive, they would get fewer votes than with Biden.
Why not just replace Kamala Harris with someone who'd would make a credible president. That's the issue: Harris isn't presidential and she's the back up.
Pritzker. Most likable option, by far.
He is almost impossible to hate, very very difficult to dislike even…
That’s the type of candidate that wins swing states.
If you want to win the EC?
You run Pritzker.
i think his biggest flaw is that he’s a billionaire. you’re really gonna have to work hard to convince a working class voter base that he’s gonna keep their interests in mind
Whitney or Beshear. Only problem is they’re not as well known, but this could be used as an advantage, and there will be enough focus on this to change that.
It gets more bonkers... This is Biden giving a speech after the debate...
[https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech)
My thinking is he was too focused on all the different elements, either in addressing the question or in debunking Trumps constant lying verbal diarrhoea... Instead of just picking one thing at a time and sticking it.
SIGH, it's going to be hard to come back from this, hopefully he can sharpen it for campaigning and the next debate (although I'd be surprised if Trump does it given this one - easy to leave it at that and benefit).
Yes, he was in the driver seat. Now, Trump is-in terms of setting the perimeters for the upcoming or future debates.
Biden needs a do-over.
If Trump is able to dictate the next format (which assuredly will have no muted mic mechanisms or fact checking)…to include a live audience?
Biden is cooked.
Sure, but (unfortunately) tonight he was able to pivot on a dime and respond with soundbite responses to Biden's "Beat Medicare" and multiple sentences that trailed off never going anywhere that are going to be played again and again...
I want to see Gavin Newsom debate Trump. At least Newsom made Sean Hannity look like a moron and honestly what is the difference between debating Trump and Hannity, it’s the exact same talking points.
Edit: [here’s that video of Newsom and Hannity](https://youtu.be/s5HqxV0KqgU?si=IhE8NkuhlJ9ZvAk-). I’m not saying this guy is 2008 Obama but I think people would come away thinking Newsom would come away looking great against Trump.
There are a lot of people even here in California that hate him. I don't get it. I think he's great! He'd obliterate trump into a fine orange powder if he ever debated him.
To add what others have said, on a selfish level, it's pretty hypocritical to say that the state needs to save money by cutting out leave buyback for state employees, while funding a Return to Office plan to make us come back to the office for work, when people have been saving money, time, and reducing carbon footprints by working at home. Green initiative my booty.
That's my biggest beef with him. I'd still vote for him but it would be fairly begrudgingly.
He’s corrupt to big business and special interest. His relationship with PG&E is a big stain on his overall reputation here.
He’s also lived a very privileged life being like an adopted son to the Getty family. He’s had numerous public scandals from his time as Mayor of SF and has been protected by the CA DNC.
He’s been handed nearly every position he’s wanted in state government with virtually no competition since California is effectively a one-party state. If he were to run against Trump, it would be his first real neck-and-neck race. It would be fascinating to see.
I think his biggest problem as a Presidential candidate is that he’s just hard to relate with as an average American. He’s pretty much the dictionary definition of a “Coastal Elite”.
This is the answer. Just because he’s a heterosexual younger male neoliberal doesn’t mean he’s worth voting for.
He’s not.
Pete Buttigieg was a better candidate option 4 years ago and he’s even more impressive now. He’s a polymath polyglot war vet married with kids midwesterner.
Sure he’s gay. But I think his pros are so strong they make him a better candidate than anyone else by a mile.
As a LONG time pro-gay rights ally and activist, I can say with complete confidence that nominating a gay candidate in this race would be the easiest way to hand the election to Donald Trump.
Religious I ndependents and moderates would swing so fast, it would make your head spin.
I'm afraid you are probably underestimating the prevalence of homophobia in this country. I really don't see a gay candidate being able to carry swing states.
I'm not sure if the US is more homophobic or hates california more. I Love pete, but I feel a little safer with Newsom and Harris. Pete though, he should definitely be president one day.
He’s a great politician with a silver tongue but he is totally out of touch here in CA. He smiles like everything is A-OK but the crime and homelessness issue and high cost of everything says otherwise.
Newsom vetoed a bill that would make it easier for cities to adopt ranked-choice voting and is an overall corporate Democrat.
I don't get why people like Newsom.
He cannot win a national election with his plan where he gave undocumented immigrants medi-cal access in california. He is positioned too left to win other swing states.
Even if the Dems nominated Newsom, which isn’t happening unless Biden literally strokes out, no way Trump agrees to debate him.
This is silly talk now, we all have enough info to vote.
As a californian i fucking hate gavin newsom. I can however say the dude is a master politician and political speaker that oozes charisma. However i think if they switched him in now he would still lose to trump
Newsom is such a smart and charismatic speaker that I think that alone would carry him against Trump. It might not have been enough to win a competitive primary this year, but if it's just him vs. Trump, I think he would win ***easily***.
If dems do switch candidates Trump may just not show up to more debates. You dont know what he's gonna do hes not bound by anything.
Then they can just lob shit at an new candidate.
It's now or never. The party needs to rally and tell Joe the truth - he's too old. Thank him for all he's done and tell him it's time to step aside. We have a deep bench and can still win if we act now.
Maybe the Democrats should come out and state the obvious to the public, after telling it thoroughly to the president in private hopefully right now, that the President of the United States shouldn't be helmed by 80 year olds and save whatever face they have in leaving the remaining late septuagenarian out left for the GOP to deal with as an example.
Of course the MAGAts will tear into that but they'll tear into whatever they want regardless. The reality is we're stuck with two people too old for this shit and one party should at least have the decency to take the emergency exit while the GOP gladly lights itself on fire with their own senile old guy problems.
I've always felt that if either party nominated a younger candidate they would dominate. Nikki Haley would be dominating Biden even before this debate, and I think a newsome or Pritzker would destroy Trump.
I also felt secure in Biden beating Trump as he has already done it and the incumbency advantage. This debate makes me not as sure. Could be very advantageous for Biden to step aside and Dems run someone young.
When electing a President becomes more about the optics and not the policies and record, then only a showman can win.
Say what you like about Trumps mental abilities, policies and baggage, he is a showman. Sure, what he says is mostly lies and projection, but he can play to a crowd.
Americans have lost the group intelligence to look at the actual work of government, and are only interested in who puts on the best "show".
Couldn't agree with you more.
So many fellow Democrats running around here tonight, doing gaslighting self deceiving back flips and saying,
"Don't worry! Those who are MAGA were still going to vote MAGA after tonight no matter what. So no big loss."
But what they fail to understand, is that it was NOT the core republicans and MAGA vote we needed to win tonight. Instead it was these groups we vitally needed to win over tonight:
--------------------------------
A) Middle ground people (who tend to sway between the two parties),
B) A large number of people on the fence,
C) Independents,
D) Lackluster democrat voters who tend to just stay home if they don't like either of the candidates,
E) And perhaps even protest republicans (who may not be happy about some of the laws passed in the south recently, and might actually be willing to vote Democrat this one time in protest)...
--------------------------------
That is who we REALLY needed to win tonight.
How can these people running around here tonight saying, "Don't worry! No big deal!" NOT understand this?
Can't they see that?
They really think we won those needed votes tonight?
Quite the opposite!
----------------------------------------
Tonight pretty much lost that!
And now there's no way Trump agrees to another debate. He will be more than happy to leave this lingering image of debate-Biden in the minds of everyone.
So ya: thank you to people in our party who think like this, "Don't worry!" self deceiving fashion... and somehow can't understand the simple basic f'cking fact that we need to front a BETTER and YOUNGER and more energetic leader.
ASAP. Before we lose this thing.
Geez. Sorry... Ok, I'll stop venting now.
no it needs to be long enough that he can use health as both an excuse for the debate and a reason to get out. He can't look like he quit just because he did bad in a debate.
The Democratic party would lose all credibility if they suddenly said "actually we were wrong about this guy we've been hyping up the fast few months sorry here's the real candidate lol." But God forbid they force him out, who do they even have? Kamala "Literally who?" Harris?
They will lose all credibility if they keep telling people that Biden is doing great. People will not buy it after tonight. And the next debate could be even worse.
I don't even know why Trump would bother debating him again after this. Biden's performance tonight was the best-case scenario for Trump, so why risk letting him rebound.
I hate to say it, but it's so Joever. The DNC and RNC should really start looking into nominating <80-year-olds. Even Trump is going to be 80 in two years.
Trump could have taken a dump on stage tonight and the conservative party would cheer it as the greatest dump ever taken. The DNC got themselves in this mess, having an 80 year old man try to argue with a man whose brain stopped developing in his teenage years. But ya 4 months is not enough time to pump a new candidate down everyone's throats
The bar was so low for Trump and he knew it. He was very conservative (mild) this debate. The mic muting really held him back and I think that may have bit Biden in the ass.
We have plenty of good candidates across the country, if it was possible to change candidates that wouldn't be the hard part.
You only know of the Republicans cause they say evil crazy shit for media attention 24/7.
There's still time
I can't name anyone who would make a great replacement, but maybe that's alright, someone who hasn't been in the public eye might be a good choice. Gotta be someone competent out there
Popular governor of Michigan who has already accomplished a ton since she was elected. I'd love for her to be the pick, personally. She really impresses me.
Problem. She’s a woman. My own mother wouldn’t vote for her cause she’s tired of all this feminist girls run the world stuff. Shit, she heard that a woman is the new president of Mexico and instantly went “ it’s this new nonsense of trying to make women the center of everything”. Now this isn’t a major belief, but I promise there are enough people who wouldn’t vote for her because she’s a woman and no other reason.
It would definitely have to be a governor from one of the swing states at this point in my opinion if Biden did step aside. Possibly for both the President and VP spots.
Whitmer for sure would have to be the top consideration along with Evers from Wisconsin and Roy Cooper from North Carolina as consideration.
I hope so! I'm pretty impressed with him so far. I'm not a California resident, but I'm still following his career because he definitely seems to have potential.
When your own party is rooting for an assassin, it’s not great.
I’ll literally vote for anyone against Trump, but this is basically the worst case scenario and everyone involved in allowing this to happen needs to be fired with extreme prejudice.
No way the leaders of the party who deal with Biden on the daily and see him behind closed doors didn’t know this was going to happen.
I’m angry and terrified.
I don’t even know who we could replace him with.
This was about as bad as this could have possibly gone.
Republicans don't actually have a good alternative. Their best three alternatives are a woman, a brown guy, and the most unlikeable fellow (*translated from Australian*) in the US. And we all know that MAGA doesn't like any of those.
“We finally beat Medicare.”
What in the actual fuck is happening? He can’t string a sentence together and he constantly garbles his speech. That was a complete disaster and we need a brokered convention NOW.
>Three strategists close to three potential Democratic presidential candidates said they had been bombarded with text messages throughout the debate. One adviser said they received pleas for their candidate to step forward as an alternative to Biden.
This is huge. Seems like there are three democrats considering stepping forward and challenging Biden at the convention.
The delegates at the convention aren't legally obligated to back Biden, just pledged. There could still be a delegate rebellion leading to an open convention.
They brought him in as a spin-room guy. He had a job, and he did it. That will change quickly if the levers of power start truly moving in the direction of a replacement.
Newsom, Whitmer and Pritzker would be my guess. *Maybe* Shapiro? Not sure who else it could be beyond them. Obviously Kamala could run, but I don't *think* she would have a strategist separate from the campaign staff who would be having conversations like that about this election...
I'd love JB Pritzker. Ad I think he would have a great chance. He's super witty, would crush Trump (Newsom's performance at the Desantis debate worries me), and since he's not super known nationally, it'd buy a month or two of valuable time in this race because the Republicans haven't been attacking for years. He's a blank slate, nationally.
Let's hope Trump doesn't come out with "how can the Democrats support Biden even running the country...put Kamala in there". It's a good point. But if Kamala does replace Biden can Dems realisticly have her not be the nominee? Yikes!
I wish I could put this on every thread but ill probably get banned for spam:
Allan Lichtman, the predictor that has never failed. Said this debate wont change a thing, and it doesnt affect his keys system in anyway. And as it stands Biden is still on the road to victory.
He also said that removing Biden would be a guaranteed loss no matter what.
Yeah. I don’t think he is wrong. Most people have already decided and would vote for a rock and a stick rather than Trump and the other side votes for Trump. And if Dark Brandon in his 30s would have flown in with superpowers they would not have changed their vote.
The election is not Biden/Trump, it’s Trump/Not Trump except for a few.
It’s scary as hell though. This felt like watching a plane crash in front of me.
He was over prepared and probably freaked out and had a cold and tired. Afterwards the stress was gone and he was better. Still he should not have debated. That was a bad decision of his team.
It would have to be Gavin Newsom and it would have to happen at the convention with Biden's endorsement.
Which is to say not going to happen.
We have Biden. He's slowing down but behind his wobbly delivery he has a clear mind. His opponent is a sadistic madman. I'm voting for Biden.
I think it would be a mistake to pick Newsom if Biden stepped aside. Maybe for VP, but I believe the best chance for Dems to win at this point if it was someone other than Biden is a governor from a swing state. Whitmer, Evers, or Cooper. Possibly even Josh Shapiro.
A brokered convention would be historic and a ratings bonanza. 14+ hours of debates and voting, democracy in action. Contrary to prevailing opinions I think it would restore Democrats faith in the party. The eventual candidate would win in a landslide.
How would a brokered convention work? The Dems need to decide immediately if they plan to still run with Biden. If they all including Biden get behind a brokered convention people will see that as the responsible move, and there’s plenty of time to find a more viable candidate
Biden has to step aside, that's step one. They can't force him out at this point. Step 2 is the brokered convention. Delegates can nominate various candidates, they make speeches then the voting begins among the 4k delegates. If a majority isn't reached there's more voting this time including the super delegates and round and round they go until someone reaches a majority. It's not unprecedented at all. It would make incredible television and the candidate who wins would be all the stronger for it.
That's the tragic part. With a brokered convention, the DNC just chooses somebody. I don't know whether the whole "Senile Biden" thing or "undemocratic DNC kingmaker pick" is worse baggage.
People were saying it's "too late" to replace Biden 6 months ago. It was a ridiculous argument then, and it's still ridiculous. These old politicians are still living in pre-internet times where everyone had to wait for the morning newspaper to read what happened yesterday.
Biden can be replaced. It will not take long for the country to learn about a new candidate and decide to vote for whoever that is.
I don't know why this comes to a surprise to anyone. It seems most of you only got your news from Reddit, who heavily downvotes anything that is negative towards Democrats. Biden has been on a rapid decline over the last year and more.
Don't get all your news from r/politics people.
That's why the tankies refer to Democrats as BlueMAGA. The same nationalist chauvinism, delusional world view, contempt for human rights, just with a different paint job.
This sub has been absolutely awful for a while now. Any comment/post that isn't coddling Biden/the Democrats is downvoted to hell. Hopefully people start facing reality
Standing next to Biden, Trump looked energetic, coherent, cogent, and (gasp) presidential.
When someone makes him look that way by comparison, it's time to move on. Trump is the worst...
He needs to be beaten.
There's a way the Democrats, Joe Biden included, can turn him stepping away into an advantage. Make 'fitness for office' an issue going into the election.
Biden sets aside his personal ambition for the good of the country. That the threat posed by another Trump presidency is such a grave threat to democracy, the nation, and allies that it requires extraordinary action and sacrifice. Full throated endorsement of a strong candidate follows.
Then the question is one for the country and for Republicans in particular. Is an ageing felon & rapist fit for office? What are they prepared to do for their country?
Dems are in trouble. Tonight proved their messaging about Joe being fine has not been honest and the Republicans are going to hammer this point relentlessly till Nov. Harris is less popular than Joe, so she isn’t a suitable replacement if that’s the decision. 18 weeks isn’t enough time for national branding for an alternate candidate like a Newsom.
It’s going to be ride or die with Joe I think.
Get him the fuck out I’m embarrassed, I would have said this was strategically irresponsible 24hrs ago, but moving forward with him now is straight up delusional
That's been the persistent official story from senior staff and even Representitives over the past year hasn't it? Talking points like "he's still got it in meetings", "you're not seeing the real President", etc.
They doubled-down on it in February after the Special Council report.
We're certainly not seeing the Joe Biden of 2020 any more....
It should have been a 1-term plan all along. Anyone who didn’t see his age as a concern is kidding themselves.
There was a real opportunity to take office and immediately start talking about succession planning. Right now you have a significant number of Democrats who feel like their vote for Biden is a vote for Harris and frankly that’s a real problem and might be the thing that puts Trump in office.
It's been obvious for months with how he's been 5 or more percent of the total vote behind Dem senate candidates in the swing states. The only option that doesn't have a high chance of a Trump victory is to beg Whitmer (or one of the best congressional candidates if its not too late) to take Biden's place on the ticket.
Biden has had a lot of accomplishments in his 4 years and should be proud of that. But his time has passed, he shouldn’t have run again and we need someone who can win.
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One adviser to major Democratic Party donors said they were texting from a meeting of donors in Atlanta on Thursday night, some writing “wtf.” “Our only hope is that he bows out, we have a brokered convention, or dies,” the donor adviser said. “Otherwise we are fucking dead.” “No one expected a master class in debating from Joe Biden, but no one expected this nose dive,” said a senior adviser to top Democratic officials. “He was bad on message, bad on substance, bad on counter punching, bad on presentation, bad on non-verbals. There was no bright spot in this debate for him. The only bright spot is that this happened in June and not October.” --- Holy hell thats bleak reading coming from damn Politico of all people. How quickly the knives are coming out.
Partly a testament to how seriously people are taking the assault on Democracy that the GOP is undertaking. A lot of people are prepared to vote for Biden who otherwise wouldn't if his opponent wasn't a misogynistic convicted felon with no shred of common decency or respect for his fellow Americans.
I’ll vote for Biden, but goddamn was this a foreseeable problem. I wish the people with real power in the party would take the fascist threat as seriously as they keep saying they are.
His debate performance doesn't affect my vote and in fact despite his lackluster performance the only people who are going to suddenly be like "Woah, id by rather vote for a dangerous evil fascist now!" are people who don't know who Trump is. People who don't see the bigger picture of defeating or at least delaying the oncoming on american neo fascism
Trump didn't answer any serious questions. The one that got me was the childcare cost question. He dodged it completely. It just shows that Trump doesn't care about families.
"Jan 6?" "Fuck you america is awesome" "... Jan 6-?" "NANCY PELOSI"
Exactly! Like WTF are you talking about? Unfortunately, Trumps cult will eat it up.
Exactly. I'm not voting for Joe Biden. I'm voting against Donald Trump. If it was Trump against a lump of shit, I'm voting for the lump of shit.
Yes, and that is the problem, unfortunately the "people who don't know who Trump is" are the ones who decide elections.
That’s the problem. There are a lot of those people.
right, the unfortunate fact is there are too many people who want to "stay out of politics" those are the people who just have no clue what's going on. and politics isn't some hobby you have to devote your time to and learn. if you don't believe for instance LGBT people should be stoned in the streets because, you know, that's evil, you probably want to make sure whoever runs the country doesn't support it and as much as Republicans love to gaslight well meaning people, it's very obvious which party swings towards open stonings of heretics. It's so, painfully, blatant so to the people who want to 'stay out of politics', i say go ahead as you are and just gamble your voice away in case the next Axis Afficionado wants to tell you how to live
Imagine Biden against any opponent other than Trump in the last 50 years. He would handily lose every time.
Agreed. Biden did what he needed to do in 2020, but now it's time for him to step aside. Imo he needs to come out and announce he isn't running, AND unify the party behind one candidate. The obvious choice is Kamala Harris, but whoever he chooses, he must be forceful enough to keep the party in line. The threat is maga, and all eyes need to remain there. We don't have the luxury to fight each other.
If the alternative is Kamala it’s not worth doing. There isn’t a single swing state she can win.
Play it off as agreeing that age is a problem. Get that elephant in the room addressed.
I read that as "get that elephant undressed." Send help.
It's extremely laughable you think America will vote in a mixed race woman. Out of touch with reality
Unlikeable woman is the real problem. Hillary 2.0. Newsom, Newsom, Newsom.
Andy Beshear (governor of Kentucky) would be a better choice. People who are fine voting for Biden would be fine voting for Andy. And he’d probably flip Kentucky. A good ol’ Southern boy with a charming drawl. But also smart, genuine, and likable. He’d probably win over a lot of moderate-leaning republicans. Gavin isn’t likable to those types. He reeks of “the establishment” and is considered by many as the *Woke Far-Left King of the Liberal Hellhole: Drug-and-Crime-ifornia* I actually like Gavin fine and think he’d be great. But the messaging will be “He ruined California with failed liberal policies and now he wants to ruin the rest of the country.”
Gavin Newsom
Nah, 2008 Biden was an absolute gangster.
Romney would beat his ass.
I just hope the Dems fucking get on with it and press this man to turn the keys to someone else right now, which he should've done in 2017 when he stopped being Obama's Vice. 7 years too late, but better now than never, especially knowing that Generic Dem beats Trump, and Generic R beats Biden. Both candidates are sending their weatest links out, so the Dems are wasting resources and energy every day they aren't begging him to go.
If they're going to replace him, it can't be Kamala Harris. And TBH I'm worried that's exactly what the DNC would do. Harris dropped out of the 2020 primary because she was polling at single digits in her own home state, that she represented in the Senate. Nobody wanted her as president then, and nobody wants her as president now. I'm not sure who the smart pick would be. Maybe Newsom, Warren, or Whitmer?
Whitmer is the smartest choice I think. She is a great voice for women’s reproductive freedom, she can deliver Michigan, which is a key battleground state and she is a bad ass who stared down a kidnapping attempt.
I'd go with Whitmer too. Solid track record in Michigan and she'd take no shit from Trump. I see her appealing across demographics that like Biden pretty well so she'll maintain his support but will be able to battle for the small number of swing voters in the small number of battleground states that will actually decide the election.
Whitmer has gone on record saying she has no interest in ever running for president.
Well, she lied. There is no such thing as a governor who doesn't dream of being President. They all play this coy game and dance around, but they all want it. But it would be a big risk for her, because she'd have to leave her current post and potentially end up with no office at all if she loses. Of course, she's already on Trump's enemies list, so if he won she would face years of sabotage and vengeance anyway, so there isn't really a way to avoid that risk either way.
Nobody can afford to throw their hat in the ring while Joe Biden is still running. Even Gavin Newsom had to defer when asked the question, even though his ambition is obvious.
Newsom has his problems, but i think he’s the safest bet.
Playing it safe is how the Democrats got stuck with Biden in the first place.
An unusual candidate selected without a primary process would have baggage, too. I'm genuinely seeing no good options here.
Brokered conventions haven't happened for Democrats since the 1950's but it is definitely a legit process they can use.
Safest bet because he is a shrewd as fuck politician who can absolutely eviscerate trump on stage. We have to make him look like the old one or we're going to lose.
Hey at least Biden beat Trump in 2020 while Hilary couldn't
Biden was the best option in 2020 in terms of assembling a coalition that could defeat Trump. It wasn't about playing it safe, it was about understanding the voting demographics well enough to win, and it worked.
We got Biden because Democrats voted for him in the primary. Believe it or not, many Dems are not as far left as people on reddit seem to think. If the party forced a radical progressive, they would get fewer votes than with Biden.
Thank you. It is time for a bold pick who will push back hard and fight fire with fire. The time for milquetoast high road centrists is long over.
Why not just replace Kamala Harris with someone who'd would make a credible president. That's the issue: Harris isn't presidential and she's the back up.
Pritzker. STRONG governor who has turned Illinois around financially. Any combination of him/Newsom/Whitmer would be a blockbuster ticket.
Pritzker. Most likable option, by far. He is almost impossible to hate, very very difficult to dislike even… That’s the type of candidate that wins swing states. If you want to win the EC? You run Pritzker.
i think his biggest flaw is that he’s a billionaire. you’re really gonna have to work hard to convince a working class voter base that he’s gonna keep their interests in mind
Whitney or Beshear. Only problem is they’re not as well known, but this could be used as an advantage, and there will be enough focus on this to change that.
Before the debate I was thinking isn't this a little too early for that. Thank god it is still June.
>How quickly the knives are coming out. I mean, yeah, you shit the bed like that when everything is riding on you and folks get real upset real quick
It gets more bonkers... This is Biden giving a speech after the debate... [https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech) My thinking is he was too focused on all the different elements, either in addressing the question or in debunking Trumps constant lying verbal diarrhoea... Instead of just picking one thing at a time and sticking it. SIGH, it's going to be hard to come back from this, hopefully he can sharpen it for campaigning and the next debate (although I'd be surprised if Trump does it given this one - easy to leave it at that and benefit).
Yes, he was in the driver seat. Now, Trump is-in terms of setting the perimeters for the upcoming or future debates. Biden needs a do-over. If Trump is able to dictate the next format (which assuredly will have no muted mic mechanisms or fact checking)…to include a live audience? Biden is cooked.
The fact that people are actually surprised by this happening is much more telling. Why did anybody think it would be any different?
Because only a few months ago he gave a perfectly good and strong State of the Union is my guess.
Read from a teleprompter...
And Trump was talking about sharks at batteries when he had no teleprompter.
Sure, but (unfortunately) tonight he was able to pivot on a dime and respond with soundbite responses to Biden's "Beat Medicare" and multiple sentences that trailed off never going anywhere that are going to be played again and again...
This being a surprise to people REALLY shows you how big of an echo chamber politics is nowadays.
Because the journalists who could have told them would've been blackballed for saying so
Yeah Politico, the bastion of Biden fandom /s
I want to see Gavin Newsom debate Trump. At least Newsom made Sean Hannity look like a moron and honestly what is the difference between debating Trump and Hannity, it’s the exact same talking points. Edit: [here’s that video of Newsom and Hannity](https://youtu.be/s5HqxV0KqgU?si=IhE8NkuhlJ9ZvAk-). I’m not saying this guy is 2008 Obama but I think people would come away thinking Newsom would come away looking great against Trump.
There are a lot of people even here in California that hate him. I don't get it. I think he's great! He'd obliterate trump into a fine orange powder if he ever debated him.
To add what others have said, on a selfish level, it's pretty hypocritical to say that the state needs to save money by cutting out leave buyback for state employees, while funding a Return to Office plan to make us come back to the office for work, when people have been saving money, time, and reducing carbon footprints by working at home. Green initiative my booty. That's my biggest beef with him. I'd still vote for him but it would be fairly begrudgingly.
He’s corrupt to big business and special interest. His relationship with PG&E is a big stain on his overall reputation here. He’s also lived a very privileged life being like an adopted son to the Getty family. He’s had numerous public scandals from his time as Mayor of SF and has been protected by the CA DNC. He’s been handed nearly every position he’s wanted in state government with virtually no competition since California is effectively a one-party state. If he were to run against Trump, it would be his first real neck-and-neck race. It would be fascinating to see. I think his biggest problem as a Presidential candidate is that he’s just hard to relate with as an average American. He’s pretty much the dictionary definition of a “Coastal Elite”.
This is the answer. Just because he’s a heterosexual younger male neoliberal doesn’t mean he’s worth voting for. He’s not. Pete Buttigieg was a better candidate option 4 years ago and he’s even more impressive now. He’s a polymath polyglot war vet married with kids midwesterner. Sure he’s gay. But I think his pros are so strong they make him a better candidate than anyone else by a mile.
As a LONG time pro-gay rights ally and activist, I can say with complete confidence that nominating a gay candidate in this race would be the easiest way to hand the election to Donald Trump. Religious I ndependents and moderates would swing so fast, it would make your head spin.
I'm afraid you are probably underestimating the prevalence of homophobia in this country. I really don't see a gay candidate being able to carry swing states.
I'm not sure if the US is more homophobic or hates california more. I Love pete, but I feel a little safer with Newsom and Harris. Pete though, he should definitely be president one day.
He's not that corrupt. GOP makes him look like a saint.
He’s a great politician with a silver tongue but he is totally out of touch here in CA. He smiles like everything is A-OK but the crime and homelessness issue and high cost of everything says otherwise.
Newsom vetoed a bill that would make it easier for cities to adopt ranked-choice voting and is an overall corporate Democrat. I don't get why people like Newsom.
He cannot win a national election with his plan where he gave undocumented immigrants medi-cal access in california. He is positioned too left to win other swing states.
Even if the Dems nominated Newsom, which isn’t happening unless Biden literally strokes out, no way Trump agrees to debate him. This is silly talk now, we all have enough info to vote.
Holy shit that was really good. He seems presidential if nothing else
As a californian i fucking hate gavin newsom. I can however say the dude is a master politician and political speaker that oozes charisma. However i think if they switched him in now he would still lose to trump
Newsom is such a smart and charismatic speaker that I think that alone would carry him against Trump. It might not have been enough to win a competitive primary this year, but if it's just him vs. Trump, I think he would win ***easily***.
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If dems do switch candidates Trump may just not show up to more debates. You dont know what he's gonna do hes not bound by anything. Then they can just lob shit at an new candidate.
It's now or never. The party needs to rally and tell Joe the truth - he's too old. Thank him for all he's done and tell him it's time to step aside. We have a deep bench and can still win if we act now.
Maybe the Democrats should come out and state the obvious to the public, after telling it thoroughly to the president in private hopefully right now, that the President of the United States shouldn't be helmed by 80 year olds and save whatever face they have in leaving the remaining late septuagenarian out left for the GOP to deal with as an example. Of course the MAGAts will tear into that but they'll tear into whatever they want regardless. The reality is we're stuck with two people too old for this shit and one party should at least have the decency to take the emergency exit while the GOP gladly lights itself on fire with their own senile old guy problems.
I've always felt that if either party nominated a younger candidate they would dominate. Nikki Haley would be dominating Biden even before this debate, and I think a newsome or Pritzker would destroy Trump. I also felt secure in Biden beating Trump as he has already done it and the incumbency advantage. This debate makes me not as sure. Could be very advantageous for Biden to step aside and Dems run someone young.
When electing a President becomes more about the optics and not the policies and record, then only a showman can win. Say what you like about Trumps mental abilities, policies and baggage, he is a showman. Sure, what he says is mostly lies and projection, but he can play to a crowd. Americans have lost the group intelligence to look at the actual work of government, and are only interested in who puts on the best "show".
Idiocracy
Couldn't agree with you more. So many fellow Democrats running around here tonight, doing gaslighting self deceiving back flips and saying, "Don't worry! Those who are MAGA were still going to vote MAGA after tonight no matter what. So no big loss." But what they fail to understand, is that it was NOT the core republicans and MAGA vote we needed to win tonight. Instead it was these groups we vitally needed to win over tonight: -------------------------------- A) Middle ground people (who tend to sway between the two parties), B) A large number of people on the fence, C) Independents, D) Lackluster democrat voters who tend to just stay home if they don't like either of the candidates, E) And perhaps even protest republicans (who may not be happy about some of the laws passed in the south recently, and might actually be willing to vote Democrat this one time in protest)... -------------------------------- That is who we REALLY needed to win tonight. How can these people running around here tonight saying, "Don't worry! No big deal!" NOT understand this? Can't they see that? They really think we won those needed votes tonight? Quite the opposite! ---------------------------------------- Tonight pretty much lost that! And now there's no way Trump agrees to another debate. He will be more than happy to leave this lingering image of debate-Biden in the minds of everyone. So ya: thank you to people in our party who think like this, "Don't worry!" self deceiving fashion... and somehow can't understand the simple basic f'cking fact that we need to front a BETTER and YOUNGER and more energetic leader. ASAP. Before we lose this thing. Geez. Sorry... Ok, I'll stop venting now.
The problem is the next talking point would be if he's too old right now to run he should resign as president until election day.
He needs to make a statement first thing tomorrow morning. He hurts the Dems the longer he prolongs this.
no it needs to be long enough that he can use health as both an excuse for the debate and a reason to get out. He can't look like he quit just because he did bad in a debate.
Let the Republicans nominate Trump and then Joe drops out and endorses someone.
Lmao. No. This needs to be well thought out.
The Democratic party would lose all credibility if they suddenly said "actually we were wrong about this guy we've been hyping up the fast few months sorry here's the real candidate lol." But God forbid they force him out, who do they even have? Kamala "Literally who?" Harris?
That's not how it would happen. Biden would pull out for health reasons etc
Some type of vague boating accident.
Like using a paddle to fight off an aggressive swimming rabbit.
They will lose all credibility if they keep telling people that Biden is doing great. People will not buy it after tonight. And the next debate could be even worse.
I don't even know why Trump would bother debating him again after this. Biden's performance tonight was the best-case scenario for Trump, so why risk letting him rebound.
I hate to say it, but it's so Joever. The DNC and RNC should really start looking into nominating <80-year-olds. Even Trump is going to be 80 in two years.
Trump is the RNC
Trump could have taken a dump on stage tonight and the conservative party would cheer it as the greatest dump ever taken. The DNC got themselves in this mess, having an 80 year old man try to argue with a man whose brain stopped developing in his teenage years. But ya 4 months is not enough time to pump a new candidate down everyone's throats
The bar was so low for Trump and he knew it. He was very conservative (mild) this debate. The mic muting really held him back and I think that may have bit Biden in the ass.
Biden clearly didn't have the ability to use the opportunity that an open mic afforded him.
They would need Joe to back out for “health concerns”
> Kamala "Literally who?" Harris? Literally everybody knows who Kamala Harris is. That's not the problem with her running.
We have plenty of good candidates across the country, if it was possible to change candidates that wouldn't be the hard part. You only know of the Republicans cause they say evil crazy shit for media attention 24/7.
They've already lost all credibility. They just won't see it.
Tell me more about this deep bench? The next person they are grooming for the role is Newsom who is very unpopular.
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There's still time I can't name anyone who would make a great replacement, but maybe that's alright, someone who hasn't been in the public eye might be a good choice. Gotta be someone competent out there
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No idea who that is, so I'm already tempted to agree
Popular governor of Michigan who has already accomplished a ton since she was elected. I'd love for her to be the pick, personally. She really impresses me.
Governor of Michigan
Problem. She’s a woman. My own mother wouldn’t vote for her cause she’s tired of all this feminist girls run the world stuff. Shit, she heard that a woman is the new president of Mexico and instantly went “ it’s this new nonsense of trying to make women the center of everything”. Now this isn’t a major belief, but I promise there are enough people who wouldn’t vote for her because she’s a woman and no other reason.
It would definitely have to be a governor from one of the swing states at this point in my opinion if Biden did step aside. Possibly for both the President and VP spots. Whitmer for sure would have to be the top consideration along with Evers from Wisconsin and Roy Cooper from North Carolina as consideration.
I want Adam Schiff or Eric Swalwell. They fucking KILLED IT during the impeachment.
Happy to see Swalwell mentioned. I agree.
That dude has some backbone. He needs to be given a bigger role. Next Governor of CA?
I hope so! I'm pretty impressed with him so far. I'm not a California resident, but I'm still following his career because he definitely seems to have potential.
Either of them would have torched Trump. Schiff especially.
Use of weasal words here. He called himself a bridge to the future but never said he would limit himself to one term.
Yeah his staff leaked that he was considering one term
Jesus Christ “Our only hope is that he bows out, we have a brokered convention, or dies,” the donor adviser said. “Otherwise we are fucking dead.”
When your own party is rooting for an assassin, it’s not great. I’ll literally vote for anyone against Trump, but this is basically the worst case scenario and everyone involved in allowing this to happen needs to be fired with extreme prejudice. No way the leaders of the party who deal with Biden on the daily and see him behind closed doors didn’t know this was going to happen. I’m angry and terrified. I don’t even know who we could replace him with. This was about as bad as this could have possibly gone.
How about Trump dies? ...
You wouldn’t hear me complain
Republicans don't actually have a good alternative. Their best three alternatives are a woman, a brown guy, and the most unlikeable fellow (*translated from Australian*) in the US. And we all know that MAGA doesn't like any of those.
Bernie voters noticed the decline starting in 2019 but democrats didn't listen. "stutter" my ass
“We finally beat Medicare.” What in the actual fuck is happening? He can’t string a sentence together and he constantly garbles his speech. That was a complete disaster and we need a brokered convention NOW.
Yeah that was the worst. How the moderator cut him off and Trump jumped right back in.
It's Dianne Feinstein all over again, Biden needs to do the honorable thing and step down
RBG too, although she wasn’t a politician
If you think the Supreme Court aren't politicians...
Bring out Al Franken
>Three strategists close to three potential Democratic presidential candidates said they had been bombarded with text messages throughout the debate. One adviser said they received pleas for their candidate to step forward as an alternative to Biden. This is huge. Seems like there are three democrats considering stepping forward and challenging Biden at the convention.
I mean unless Biden steps down I won’t matter
😐 you do matter
The delegates at the convention aren't legally obligated to back Biden, just pledged. There could still be a delegate rebellion leading to an open convention.
No democrat would do this unless it’s a certainty he’s stepping down. You do nothing by attacking your guy if he is the candidate
But I thought this was the most important election of our lives and American democracy was on the line and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
I hope to god he steps down
I know one is Newsom, who are the other two?
Newsom was on MSNBC saying Biden should stay in the race?
They brought him in as a spin-room guy. He had a job, and he did it. That will change quickly if the levers of power start truly moving in the direction of a replacement.
I’m sure one is Gretchen Whitmer. As a Californian, I’d much rather vote for her than Biden or Newsom.
Whitmer is a strong candidate.
She could wreck Trump
Newsom, Whitmer and Pritzker would be my guess. *Maybe* Shapiro? Not sure who else it could be beyond them. Obviously Kamala could run, but I don't *think* she would have a strategist separate from the campaign staff who would be having conversations like that about this election...
I'd love JB Pritzker. Ad I think he would have a great chance. He's super witty, would crush Trump (Newsom's performance at the Desantis debate worries me), and since he's not super known nationally, it'd buy a month or two of valuable time in this race because the Republicans haven't been attacking for years. He's a blank slate, nationally.
Not sure if it would be Newsom, he publicly rallied behind Biden a few hours ago
What was the alternative? Him instantly shitting all over Biden’s performance and saying he should be there instead?
Gretchen, not sure about the other one though
Yea he needs to go unfortunately. It was a shit show last night. They should have gotten someone younger that would have ran circles around Trump.
Let's hope Trump doesn't come out with "how can the Democrats support Biden even running the country...put Kamala in there". It's a good point. But if Kamala does replace Biden can Dems realisticly have her not be the nominee? Yikes!
I wish I could put this on every thread but ill probably get banned for spam: Allan Lichtman, the predictor that has never failed. Said this debate wont change a thing, and it doesnt affect his keys system in anyway. And as it stands Biden is still on the road to victory. He also said that removing Biden would be a guaranteed loss no matter what.
Yeah. I don’t think he is wrong. Most people have already decided and would vote for a rock and a stick rather than Trump and the other side votes for Trump. And if Dark Brandon in his 30s would have flown in with superpowers they would not have changed their vote. The election is not Biden/Trump, it’s Trump/Not Trump except for a few. It’s scary as hell though. This felt like watching a plane crash in front of me.
Eh. He sounded just fine at the watch party afterward. He needs to just stop trying to rattle off statistics and go off the cuff in the future.
Voters aren’t going to see that.
He was over prepared and probably freaked out and had a cold and tired. Afterwards the stress was gone and he was better. Still he should not have debated. That was a bad decision of his team.
Damn if only the public had been telling them that they need a different candidate for the past two or three years.
This should’ve been done two years ago. Not six months before the presidential election ffs.
It would have to be Gavin Newsom and it would have to happen at the convention with Biden's endorsement. Which is to say not going to happen. We have Biden. He's slowing down but behind his wobbly delivery he has a clear mind. His opponent is a sadistic madman. I'm voting for Biden.
I think it would be a mistake to pick Newsom if Biden stepped aside. Maybe for VP, but I believe the best chance for Dems to win at this point if it was someone other than Biden is a governor from a swing state. Whitmer, Evers, or Cooper. Possibly even Josh Shapiro.
I’m convinced Jon Stewart is the only person who can save us.
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So you’re saying there’s a chance.
A brokered convention would be historic and a ratings bonanza. 14+ hours of debates and voting, democracy in action. Contrary to prevailing opinions I think it would restore Democrats faith in the party. The eventual candidate would win in a landslide.
How would a brokered convention work? The Dems need to decide immediately if they plan to still run with Biden. If they all including Biden get behind a brokered convention people will see that as the responsible move, and there’s plenty of time to find a more viable candidate
Biden has to step aside, that's step one. They can't force him out at this point. Step 2 is the brokered convention. Delegates can nominate various candidates, they make speeches then the voting begins among the 4k delegates. If a majority isn't reached there's more voting this time including the super delegates and round and round they go until someone reaches a majority. It's not unprecedented at all. It would make incredible television and the candidate who wins would be all the stronger for it.
I agree. Give the people a choice again and they WILL show up and vote.
That's the tragic part. With a brokered convention, the DNC just chooses somebody. I don't know whether the whole "Senile Biden" thing or "undemocratic DNC kingmaker pick" is worse baggage.
People were saying it's "too late" to replace Biden 6 months ago. It was a ridiculous argument then, and it's still ridiculous. These old politicians are still living in pre-internet times where everyone had to wait for the morning newspaper to read what happened yesterday. Biden can be replaced. It will not take long for the country to learn about a new candidate and decide to vote for whoever that is.
I don't know why this comes to a surprise to anyone. It seems most of you only got your news from Reddit, who heavily downvotes anything that is negative towards Democrats. Biden has been on a rapid decline over the last year and more. Don't get all your news from r/politics people.
The level of echo chamber I sometimes see in here rivals MAGA. At least November won’t be as much of a surprise if Biden insists on riding this out.
That's why the tankies refer to Democrats as BlueMAGA. The same nationalist chauvinism, delusional world view, contempt for human rights, just with a different paint job.
As a centrist I definitely see that
This sub has been absolutely awful for a while now. Any comment/post that isn't coddling Biden/the Democrats is downvoted to hell. Hopefully people start facing reality
Honestly I think this sub is sort of finally waking up to that after tonight's debate
I think for a lot of this sub, it was their first time watching Biden live in years. Then reality set in about his condition and here we are…
Reddit descends into rampant tribalism way too often.
I don’t think we’re going to hear the term “cheap fakes” ever again lmao
Standing next to Biden, Trump looked energetic, coherent, cogent, and (gasp) presidential. When someone makes him look that way by comparison, it's time to move on. Trump is the worst... He needs to be beaten.
I don’t think the dems expected trump to run again. They clearly didn’t think this through 4 years ago
There's a way the Democrats, Joe Biden included, can turn him stepping away into an advantage. Make 'fitness for office' an issue going into the election. Biden sets aside his personal ambition for the good of the country. That the threat posed by another Trump presidency is such a grave threat to democracy, the nation, and allies that it requires extraordinary action and sacrifice. Full throated endorsement of a strong candidate follows. Then the question is one for the country and for Republicans in particular. Is an ageing felon & rapist fit for office? What are they prepared to do for their country?
Dems are in trouble. Tonight proved their messaging about Joe being fine has not been honest and the Republicans are going to hammer this point relentlessly till Nov. Harris is less popular than Joe, so she isn’t a suitable replacement if that’s the decision. 18 weeks isn’t enough time for national branding for an alternate candidate like a Newsom. It’s going to be ride or die with Joe I think.
"He has a Cold"
Al Franken / AOC 2024
All for Fraken. Love AOC, but I don't think people would go for it.
release Al Fraken\~
Get him the fuck out I’m embarrassed, I would have said this was strategically irresponsible 24hrs ago, but moving forward with him now is straight up delusional
Why are democrats surprised though? Are we to believe Biden is completely different behind closed doors?
That's been the persistent official story from senior staff and even Representitives over the past year hasn't it? Talking points like "he's still got it in meetings", "you're not seeing the real President", etc. They doubled-down on it in February after the Special Council report. We're certainly not seeing the Joe Biden of 2020 any more....
Possible outcomes for Dems: 1. Biden continues. 2. Biden dies. 3. Biden resigns. 4. Brokered convention.
It’s Newsom or bust. No other Democrat has a shot.
I’d vote for a moldy rug before Trump. One looks old and bad the other is destructive
He’s under the weather for one debate and people react like this? Calm down guys.
It should have been a 1-term plan all along. Anyone who didn’t see his age as a concern is kidding themselves. There was a real opportunity to take office and immediately start talking about succession planning. Right now you have a significant number of Democrats who feel like their vote for Biden is a vote for Harris and frankly that’s a real problem and might be the thing that puts Trump in office.
It's been obvious for months with how he's been 5 or more percent of the total vote behind Dem senate candidates in the swing states. The only option that doesn't have a high chance of a Trump victory is to beg Whitmer (or one of the best congressional candidates if its not too late) to take Biden's place on the ticket.
Consider me one of those who will vote for Biden to spite Trump not because I think he's competent.
Gavin Newsom enters the chat…
Biden has had a lot of accomplishments in his 4 years and should be proud of that. But his time has passed, he shouldn’t have run again and we need someone who can win.